I'm so grateful for this channel. The amount of pre-tribbers in the world these days can create an illusion of isolation, so it's comforting to learn that I'm not alone. Please keep up your excellent work; it is appreciated deeply.

@mikek001

11 ай бұрын

Precisely.

@visionpurposehope7158

11 ай бұрын

If it wasn't for Christian's who studied pre-trib eschatology I wouldn't have learned as much as to what is going on today. They have been on target with world events. Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler to say a few. I grew up Post trib and learned hardly anything about Revelation.

@oddlycreatetiff8920

11 ай бұрын

@@visionpurposehope7158 you should have tried reading the Bible. You can learn a lot about the book of Revelation by reading it.

@julienolan5022

11 ай бұрын

Getting people to believe pre trib is Satan's deception because when they don't get air lifted out of tribulation like they're expecting many will fall away.

@StephenLee-zq9vh

11 ай бұрын

@@Lament8765 why is it not true?

Up until about 5 years ago, I believed what I was taught all of my life which was pretrib. Then I read Matthew 24. It is so obvious now that they were /are wrong. I wonder how many pretribbers have actually read Matthew. I question a lot about what is being taught. That's why I love watching your teaching videos. Shalom!

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

They read it. And then get out a hammer to make if fit pre trib by saying it is Israel.

@michaelpalmer7954

11 ай бұрын

Nowhere in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 does it mention angels gathering anyone. Secondly Paul says in a twinkling of an eye, 1 Corinthians 15:52. You might catch a glimpse of something in a "twinkling of an eye," but most assuredly you won't know what was seen in those 400 milliseconds. And lastly in Revelation 1:7 it says; "all the tribes of earth shall mourn over him." That is hardly, "the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" that we are looking for. Titus 2:13: Shalom... Mourn: κόπτω (2875) Find all occurrences (approximately 8) to cut, strike, smite to cut from, cut off to beat one's breast for grief

@mcgeorgerl

11 ай бұрын

I too was a Pre-Tribber. All of my teachers from the late 70's onward were advocates of the Scofield/Larkin doctrines. I 'drank the Kool-Aid' in huge gulps. Honestly, I don't recall the moment when I realized the scriptures that I relied upon for this doctrine didn't really work, that I was reading my eschatology into the scriptures. Discovering my error was actually a relief and, I'd say, that it both causes us to be stronger in the faith and better prepared for our futures.

@warriophecy8499

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelpalmer7954 Yes, it it these tares who use a hammer, twisting the Word of God; there destruction will come swiftly. I am a watchman on the wall for my Lord Jesus Christ.

@toddott633

9 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 or they get out a pair of scissors and cut up cut it into pieces, assigning some pieces to Israel and some to the Church.

I'm so glad you guys are there teaching with such depth and accuracy. I'm Finally back on the right side of this thing.. ya it's sobering for sure but I want the truth more than candy! Blessings on you kids.. awesome stuff 🙏

@shellydavis6784

11 ай бұрын

Hi. I took have been searching. If you don't mind, I could suggest listening to RC Sproul, Jeff Durbin, the recorded works of Josephus....all good places to find more information on Eschatology.

I tried to warn some people and try to prepare the church to be warriors for Christ because of ur not ready u could easily be deceived. I was basically attacked, told i was dangerous etc etc. Believers have tough times ahead until we see the Lord.

@SpotterVideo

6 ай бұрын

The globalists at the "World Economic Forum" have said by 2030 you will own nothing, and you will be "happy". Meanwhile many in the modern Church claim we do not need to be concerned about global government. The truth is found below. What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZread video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

I just want to say. Very cogent thoughts here! 100% concur.

I used to believe in the pretribulation until I started to really search the scriptures. When I read Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2:1 where Paul was saying concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, he said let no one deceive you for that day will not come, unless the falling away comes first and the antichrist is revealed. The pre-trib believers miss interpret this scripture and says that the church is the restrainer. I am not sure who is the restainer but it is not the church. Thank you, brother for sharing the truth with us. God Bless!🥰

@awake780

11 ай бұрын

Pre-tribbers believe they will not see the antichrist. Your Scripture references so clearly establish that as another false belief they hold.

@kayandbradvincent6643

11 ай бұрын

The restrained is the Holy Spirit

@awake780

11 ай бұрын

@@kayandbradvincent6643 purely conjecture.

@jeice452

11 ай бұрын

The restrainer is the Angel

@stephenszucs8439

11 ай бұрын

@@kayandbradvincent6643 That doesn't work. Holy Spirit is GOD. He cannot be removed from anywhere. Also, the persons of the Godhead have roles. Holy Spirit is teacher, guide, the one who calls us to repentance. If Holy Spirit AND every solitary believer on earth were all suddenly removed, it would not be remotely possible for anyone new to come to faith in the Savior. Therefore, all of those saints who die for not taking the Mark of the Beast come from???????

yes we are not getting pulled up without trials. agree with your position. even just reading about the seals makes sense. opening the seals is not declaring wrath. even when I was a baby Christian I remember reading about the abomination that causes desolation. I thought I might see this in my life. and it stuck with me even though my church thought me to always stay right with God or I will miss the rapture.

Be of good courage, and He shall strengthen your heart, all you who hope in the Lord. Psalms 31:24

It baffles me that those who believe the pre-trib theory dismiss the words of our Lord to fit their beliefs.

@archangel_one

9 ай бұрын

Believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture is like believing Lot was saved BEFORE the hellfire and brimstone of Sodom and Gomorrah's judgement. Believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture is like believing the Groom is coming for His Bride.

@Joel-dl1mx

8 ай бұрын

@@archangel_one Revelation 21:9-10 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, Whom do you believe the Bride to be?

@archangel_one

8 ай бұрын

@@Joel-dl1mx The Church is the Bride of Christ. Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. That's why we called marriage "Holy Matrimony" because it is a shadow, an example of things to come. It's why a bride take's her husband's name. Rev_22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Edit: Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

@Joel-dl1mx

8 ай бұрын

@@archangel_one Isaiah 54:5-9 For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.For the LORD has called you like a wife deserted and grieved in spirit, like a wife of youth when she is cast off,says your God. For a brief moment I deserted you, but with great compassion I will gather you. In overflowing anger for a moment I hid my face from you, but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you,” says the LORD, your Redeemer. “This is like the days of Noah to me: as I swore that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, and will not rebuke you. Romans 11:25-27 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” The New Jerusalem with all of its’ residents (Jew first then the grafted in Gentile) are the wife of the Lamb. The Church makes up part of her. Rightly referenced, Christ is the head and we are His body (one Spirit, one flesh). To say the Church is the Lamb’s wife, is to deny God’s complete purpose.

@paulbrennan4163

Ай бұрын

@@Joel-dl1mx So how do you interpret this passge: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that *it refers to Christ and the church."* (Ephesians 5:31-32) And this one: "I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. *I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."* (2 Corinthians 11:2)

Thank you Joel! I absolutely LOVE when people use Scripture to prove Scripture... A comparison "of what Paul said compared to what Yeshua said" proves the matter beyond a shadow of doubt... Deuteronomy 19:15 - A lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A MATTER MUST BE ESTABLISHED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

@michaelpalmer7954

11 ай бұрын

Anyways, nowhere in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it mention angels gathering anyone. Secondly Paul says in a twinkling of an eye, 1 Corinthians 15:52. You might catch a glimpse of something in a "twinkling of an eye," but most assuredly you won't know what was seen in those 400 milliseconds. And lastly in Revelation 1:7 it says; "all the tribes of earth shall mourn over him." That is hardly, Titus 2:13: "the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" that we are looking for. Shalom... Mourn: κόπτω (2875) Find all occurrences (approximately 8) to cut, strike, smite to cut from, cut off to beat one's breast for grief

Christ died when we were yet sinners, not when we were pre, mid or post tribbers. Now the God of patience and consolation grant us to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus, that we may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.🙏🏼❤

@jarrettjb

11 ай бұрын

Well, said my friend. While growing up my dad constantly stressed the most important thing in our faith, loving my neighbor as myself. A dynamic and actionable daily love. He always told me that I’d have enough trouble doing that, and to stay out of and forget all the Christian squabbling amongst ourselves.

Agreed. It all fits together perfectly, in a coherent manner with a post trib, pre-wrath interpretation.

@archangel_one

9 ай бұрын

Except which Tribulation? Right now we are in the time of the Tribulation of the Saints which will get worse and worse, almost no one will be left. After this current tribulation will be the time of Jacob's trouble, which is also called the Great Tribulation.

@normmcinnis4102

2 ай бұрын

It does in a human logic type way...

Pretrib claim the elect are Israel because they are dispensationalists, and separate Israel and the church, but Christ came to put both jew and gentile in one body. Pretrib separate the body and keep the middle wall of partition up.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

There is a huge difference between ethnic Israel and spiritual Israel. You can be one but not the other.

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

Revelation 7 shows them being separate. Read it.

@normmcinnis4102

2 ай бұрын

There are those of us who don't

Ive known pre trib wasnt true since i was like 9 or 10, i read revelation and didnt see anywhere where it was like the left behind movies 😂 im like uhhh this big vanishing isnt here lol

Yeah I don’t subscribe to either pre trib or post trib. Have close friends with both viewpoints. What’s cool is that these friends love and fear God, are being discipled and disciple others, and get people saved regularly! I think that’s most important.

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

11 ай бұрын

If only your comment were true. You cant be loving and fearing God while rejecting Him and His commandments. 1)Jesus states that, "My sheep hear my voice and the voice of another they will not follow". If He directly stated that He comes after the tribulation... Matt 24:29-31, and no Scripture even remotely states that He comes prior to tribulation... which voice told them about a rapture? 2) Peter tells us that there are men who twist Paul's teaching concerning Christ's return, as they do all of Scripture, and then he (now the Word of God) calls them "wicked" and tells us not to fall from our own steadfastness.... 2 Peter 3:10-18. Paul directly called the event "the resurrection of the dead"... 1 Cor 15:42-55.... no Scripture calls the event "the rapture". The resurrection of the dead does not occur until the heavens are destroyed.... Matt 24:35,36, Mark 13:31,32, Job 14:12, 2 Peter 3:10. Those martyred for not taking the mark are resurrected at the "first" resurrection... Rev 20:4-6. By offering in a rapture in lieu of the resurrection of the dead, the character of this event has been twisted to present something totally unbiblical... suggesting a rapture to heaven for 7 years... No Scripture states this false presentation, or deception surrounding the fabricated ideal.... if it did, the presenter could simply offer Scripture that states what they pretend. 3)Paul directly tells concerning our "gathering unto Him..." .. 2 Thess 2:1-3 that false teachers falsely teach that "our gathering unto Him.." is "at hand..." (imminent) without the man of perdition first revealed.... how do you answer Paul's direct pointing the finger at those who teach the doctrine of imminence? 4) After Jesus directly warns us "take heed that no man deceive you..."Matt 24: 3,4 concerning a direct question about the sign of His coming... He directly states that He comes after the tribulation... Matt 24:29-31. Sure if Scripture actually stated the opposite of Christ somewhere... offering a rapture prior to tribulation, the rapturist would be off the hook... and there wouldn't be anyone pointing out to you what Scripture states about the wickedness of the rapturist. To teach the opposite of Christ is to be antichrist... 1 John 2:18,19.... John tells us that these antichrists come from within the church. Why is it that you have no fear of the Lord concerning teaching the opposite of Christ?

@jarrettjb

11 ай бұрын

@@RandyRoth-mo3lzplease stop your divisive labeling and unnecessary negative language amongst sincere and real followers of Jesus.

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

11 ай бұрын

@@jarrettjb Please help me out on what you mean by divisive labeling and unnecessary negative language.... Seems to me, that quoting Scripture rubs you....

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

11 ай бұрын

@@BobbyU808 Did you actually read the passages of Scripture that were sited? Seems like your issue is not with me, but the Word of God.

@jarrettjb

11 ай бұрын

@@RandyRoth-mo3lz OK I’ll help you out. Stop being another Christian with the gift of finding and focusing on what you think is wrong about that person’s beliefs. No one wants to hear you. Apply some people skills and try to find what’s right with someone before anything else.

It’s all for the Jeeeeeews!!!!!!!!!!!!’ Just busting your chops there Joel great job

A very good comparison of 2 verses. Well done!

@archangel_one

9 ай бұрын

Except which tribulation? The Tribulation of the Saints, which is now, or the Great Tribulation which Jeremiah calls the time of Jacob's Trouble?

The fact that pre-trib thought did not surface until 1830 was proof to me that it doesn't square with scripture. That was my turning point. I've listened to all of FAI's videos on the study of scripture and am a peace with my decision. The rapture comes at the end of the great tribulation so therefore, we must prepare to be ready to endure what's coming ahead if the LORD allows some of us remain alive at His coming. Thanks Joel.

@paultimson6674

11 ай бұрын

Rubbish, how long have you been a Christian? a month? Iraneus knew John, he wrote about the Rapture. as well as many others. there are books that have been written about the rapture. Try reading. Not everyone is an american. Life did not start in 1776.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

Unfortunately you won't make it. 99% of the population dies during the Tribulation. Read Revelation and do the math.

@hyeminkwun9523

11 ай бұрын

Catechism #675 and 677 state that, before the second coming of Christ, the Church MUST follow Her Lord to Calvary, Death, and Resurrection for purification and renewal of the Church and world. The fulfillment of this Dogma is here, as we are now living through the prophesied events in 2 Thes 2:1-12 and the mystery of the iniquity (2 Thes 2:7) -- that's why we have had two popes (one True -- Benedict XVI; and the other false, as seen in the vision of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich) and great apostasy (2 Thes 2:3) in the Church. With the passing of Benedict XVI, the restrainer, Katechon, has been removed and, therefore, the antichrist will soon appear in public (2 Thes 2:7-8), who will be the head of the 1 world religion, followed by schism after the denial of real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist by a false pope, banning of the daily Sacrifice of the Mass (Daniel 12:11), abomination of desolation (Matt 24:15), and fiercest persecutions of the Church (Rev 12:17, 13:10) for 3.5 years (Daniel 12:11-12, Rev 12:14). But God will protect His Church as promised in Matt 16:18, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against Her" and His faithful remnant (Ps 91). All prophecies of the end times will be fulfilled as written in our generation.

@paultimson6674

11 ай бұрын

@@hyeminkwun9523 catholic or protestant? NEITHER. All religions are satanic at the core. We only need a bible and Christ. Not some CLUB. The pope is an irrelevance. and Mega pastors in protestant clubs, also are just commentators. We all are PRIEST=KINGS. Christ is KING of Kings. So you are bringing into the equation a load of guff. You are saved by CHRIST. not by the POPE. Or Billy Graham. you do not need unnecessary middlemen. all you need is God and his word. The rapture occurs so God can wake up all of humanity. we are saved. we are banked. we are KINGS. ELDERS. and the rest of humanity can avoid hell. If they surrender to Christ. three harvests are determined. BARLEY-WHEAT-GRAPE. If you love CHRIST, today, you are BARLEY. the barley falls off the stalk, by a brief waving. The wheat is crushed. God is not Crushing his beloved. We accept Christ today without chastisement. We are not forced - the tribulation is God's Crushing weight on the planet to force out a crop. The wheat is thrashed. Crushed.

@humblewatchman1673

11 ай бұрын

@hyeminkwun9523 that story makes the entirety of Bible prophecy center around the catholic Eucharist….surely you see the massive error in that thought process. You’re applying loads of outside influence to Scripture….either the Word of God is holy, unchangeable, and completely sufficient OR we find ourselves getting swallowed up in fables and deception - there is no middle ground here.

I’ve heard pretribbers try to say the elect gathered in 24:31 are “tribulation saints” in a second rapture and resurrection. What finally got me out of pretrib was comparing Matt 24:29-31 with the 6th seal being opened in Rev 6 and 2 Thes 2 the rapture and day of the lord won’t happen until after antichrist is revealed and the great falling away happens. Once I was willing to accept what I was seeing over what I was taught, I could no longer be pretrib.

@stephenszucs8439

11 ай бұрын

I wonder that they stop at 6 resurrections and two raptures. I mean, if it's open season on the scriptures (as long as you're a Pretribble) why not just add a few more resurrections? A few more raptures? Maybe we could start believing that the OT Saints were already raptured?

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

@@stephenszucs8439 OK you made funny comment. Pretribble lol. The whole comment was good.

@stephenszucs8439

11 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 Thanks, but the "pretribble" came from another commentor on a different video. I stole it with his permission.

I really enjoy these comparisons and how you lay them out. Good stuff!

The word of God is consistent with types and shadows. There’s a repetition, a historical context that we can trust. Anything outside of the ordinary or pattern in light of scripture, (pre tribulation) is suspicious and dare I say, heresy.

The Word plainly lays out a Post Tribulation rapture. A Pre Tribulation rapture is nowhere in scripture.

@vikinglobo2415

11 ай бұрын

Exactly 💯.

@marcusdenning1649

11 ай бұрын

U see , for most people the Bible is Relative, in other words it’s what u think it means. The rapture was never taught for the first 1850 yrs. No one believed it till 1850s. And it only applies to the American church!!

@thomasmyers9128

11 ай бұрын

What happens after the 7 year Tribulation?…. or What stops the 7 year tribulation?….. Jesus comes down for his 1000 year reign…. So Jesus comes down and his church goes up to meet who? Revelations lays it out in order…. Chapter 1-4 talks about the church Then not a mention of the church until chapter 19…. Chapter 5-18 is describing what’s going on during the tribulation on earth… not one instruction for what the church is to do… not one word… until after it’s over…

@marcusdenning1649

11 ай бұрын

@@thomasmyers9128 this is what u get when u interpret the Bible on your own. This is not why the Bible is for. Not for the man made churches to just make up interpretations. Can anyone tell me where the Bible originated and by whom? Those who believe in “the Rapture “ have no clue. Bible fairy’s in the sky is the usual explanation over hundreds of yrs. Just stop with the self interpretation stuff.

@zachsimmons382

11 ай бұрын

@@thomasmyers9128 Christians will meet the Lord in the air and then come into Jerusalem with Him. Jesus lays the foundation for the entirety of all New Testament teaching about the End Times in the Gospels. Jesus says nothing about the rapture until “AFTER the Tribulation” (Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24). Read it for yourself. Paul comes behind Him and says the same in 1 Thessalonians 15-17. And notice how Paul describes Jesus “descending from Heaven” BEFORE he mentions us being raptured. Again, read it for yourself. Concerning the “church not being mentioned beyond chapter 4” (I think you meant to say chapter 3), that’s not right at all. Any time in Revelation where you see mention of the “saints,” or “those who keep the commandments of God” or “those who have the testimony of Jesus,” or “those who were slain for the word of God,” it’s talking about believers AKA the Church. I can walk you through more scripture tomorrow if you want. It’s late so I’ll leave you with that and we can agree to disagree. God doesn’t contradict Himself. Jesus is not going to say the rapture isn’t until after the tribulation just to have Paul and John come behind Him and say it’s before.

Thankful, you're frequently covering this. Just watched part of a pre-trib video. He said he doesn't see Christians making it past September. I just sighed. I care enough about others that it sincerely bothers me. I hope they are led to videos like this that state exactly & clearly what scripture says.

@huggybear1996

10 ай бұрын

Hi. Was that CJ Lovik? He literally named a date for the Lord's return in 2031.

@archangel_one

9 ай бұрын

The time of the Rapture and the time around September have always been linked because of the comparison between those feasts, the rapture, and marriage. So that part is no big deal. But many forget that there is the Tribulation of the Saints, which is a time of great tribulation (which is the time that we are in NOW). But it is not the Great Tribulation itself (which is for Israel). This tribulation will get worse and worse. During this time, so-called christians will be turning the true Church in, thinking that they are doing God a service or a favor. This will be the time of Great Apostasy, a time of falling away. According to Jesus, there will only be a few remaining. Presumably, a great many will be tormented and/or executed. Jesus said it will be very few who will be saved, comparing this time period to the time of Noah and Lot. Presumably, this end-time will be the same as Lot's time, not enough Christians (righteous) left to spare them the judgement. The Holy Spirit will be removed, and therefore the Church with it, and only "Lot" will be saved.

Great teaching! Right on target!💯🎯

I think we will go through some of the tribulationbut not the wrath.

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

Of course. The tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Regarding this subject, years ago when I was a new born again believer, I prayed to God one night asking for the answer about post & pre- trib rapture? I was woken up during my sleep after hearing a strong masculine voice that said... "NO BODY GO'S UNTIL THE SEVEN!" Will never forget that voice! Just thought I would share this. Thank you and God Bless...

@MATTHEW-ic3id

11 ай бұрын

Lots of people have also had visions and heard a voice that says pre-trib. More pre-trib people on KZread have claimed to have visions about it than post.

@stephenszucs8439

11 ай бұрын

@@MATTHEW-ic3id Yes, I keep seeing the videos, "God told me the Rapture will be Easter day 2020." "God showed me the Rapture will be on Yom Kippur this year!" (2021) "God told me to get ready! The rapture will happen this week!" (3 weeks ago) and on and on and on and on and on and on...........................

@warriophecy8499

11 ай бұрын

@donsjober So, did you test the spirit? Apparently, you did not as the bible speaks to a pre-trib rapture. This spirit tickled your ears and has led you astray. You can return to Him (See Rev 3:18-20). Ask Christ to anoint your eyes such that you see Him again, your first love; then, be zealous and repent of your heresies (ies), your lawlessness against the Word of God. Then, say a new salvation statement to the Lord such that you sup with Him and He with you. Christ will forgive you, as He abundantly pardons. I have completed this step multiple times when I was led off His path. The thing is to repent and then get back on the horse again, as Satan deceives the whole world. But can you get back up and continue the race? I do not judge nor condemn you or anyone else. I merely declare the truth, while contending for the faith, as it is, not as I want it to be but as Christ teaches/Holy Spirit reveals. One's own words will either justify or condemn them on that day (Matt 12:37). For Christ will not come to judge the wicked, as the words He has spoken will judge them (John 12:47-48). I warn out of love while contending for the faith to those walking on the broad road. I am a watchman on the wall for the Lord Jesus Christ.

@stephenszucs8439

11 ай бұрын

@@warriophecy8499 You imagine that people are lost or saved based on whether they believe the fever dreams of a sick teenage girl from the 1800's, living in the cradle of new heresies. Where do you get such an aberrant and abhorrent mindset? Spirit led? No. The Spirit does NOT contradict the Bible. It is always a dead give-away of a weak position when the FIRST comment you make is an ad hominem attack. If your theory held water, you would state the evidence. Lacking evidence, You decide to over-rule God and damn 99% of the body of Christ who do not hold your pet fantasy. Shame on you!

@ShamelesslyRed

10 ай бұрын

@@warriophecy8499 what do you say to your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ who believe tribulation has already begun as they watch others in the body of Christ suffer persecution and death for their witness in Christ?

Excellent teaching! This teaching is a prerequisite to studying Rev. If people buy into pre-trib, they will not take Revelation seriously at all, but just read it casually because it is meant for others.

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

5th seal shows the church on earth.

@Joel-dl1mx

11 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 … and the 7th seal reveals silence in heaven and then soon after, the loud praises of those “coming out of the great tribulation” thankful to God for their salvation before the seven trumpets initiating His wrath…

@gtw4546

11 ай бұрын

Even worse, they use Revelation as a tool of emotional manipulation to create false believers who will go up to an altar call, do a repeat-after-me mockery of repentance, and they go out and make others hate Christians because they are such a bad witness. Tares are sown among the wheat so someone can feel like they got a notch in their evangelism belt.

@Joel-dl1mx

11 ай бұрын

@@gtw4546 and certainly appears to be the deceit The Lord warned us about as well as Paul’s admonition “to not be deceived in any way”. Such a shame.

@archangel_one

9 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 No, it doesn't. There will be many saved during the Tribulation. But remember, the Holy Spirit has to be taken away FIRST. And that means the Church with Him.

Thanks Joel, great study

So many will fall. They will say “this can’t be the mark of the beast , because the rapture hasn’t happened “. Many will fall away

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

Maybe. Let's hope not.

@michaelseay9783

11 ай бұрын

This is my same argument regarding Daniel’s 70th Week. If people are being taught that the 70th Week *has not* occurred, along with the theory that the temple will be rebuilt and the antichrist will arise in the Middle East, then many could fall because they will believe 100% what they have been taught.

@marcusdenning1649

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelseay9783 I just know there is no pre trib rapture!!! Jesus only comes back one time. When He removes His Church? There will be no way to get saved because the Holy Spirit, which is part of the church will no longer be Available.

@normmcinnis4102

2 ай бұрын

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with the rapture.

@marcusdenning1649

2 ай бұрын

@@normmcinnis4102 the rapture is a man made teaching by a guy named Darby, pushed by a guy memes scofeild in which the Moody institute pushed in order to make money. How do people not know this. The “rapture” not only has nothing to do with the mark! It also has nothing to do with the Bible. My God how do people believe this stuff.?

Couldn't be any clearer. Thank you, Joel! Excellent study. The charts help to see it even clearer!

Excellent information and teaching. Thank you! I love the side-by-side comparisons.

What’s the purpose of sealing the 144,000 in Revelation if the entire body of believers who are sealed with the Ruach are still here preaching and teaching the gospel. Also, why would God give instructions in Rev not to hurt certain things but for the apple of his eye there are no instructions period plus there’s no mention of the church from Rev 4 -19 approx. etc etc

That’s right. The scripture are so clear if read without assumption presumption and bias (pre trib)

Thank you Joel & FAI for All of your excellent work 🙏.🕊️👣

This video is one of the most convincing explation to clarify my understanding of the post trib rapture. Tribulations of the saints started since the days of John the Baptizer, and will only end when Christ returns. Wrath of God on the Babylonian System is some are mistaken for Tribulation.

Great comparison.

We can just expect him at any moment but also be prepared for whatever comes.. doesn’t really matter to me. I see all the sides have their followers and that’s because we don’t all see them the same way.. regardless of “the correct interpretation “ is less important to me than being salt and light even to the bitter end. I’m willing to live for the Lord today or die for him Today.. I don’t need to be right .. I just need to be ready and in the mean time to be found doing his will and sharing the Gospel

What other religion would claim that the teaching of the founder (who is actually God) is trumped by that of a follower? That argument is ridiculous.

Yes, it was helpful and edifying. Thank you very much

One of the best channel on KZread God Bless You

Thank you for showing the charts. Seeing the comparisons is a great tool!

@visionpurposehope7158

11 ай бұрын

I don't believe I saw Daniel and Revelation in there. What about Parallels with Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah and how God saved them? Or, Enoch and the Jewish timeline, Jewish wedding parallel.

@warriophecy8499

11 ай бұрын

@@visionpurposehope7158 That's because there are no parallels between these passages. One merely has to take a look at the Greek to know and understand that what Joel and Dalton are feeding to their followers is false, a damning lie. Please go to this URL to see the grammatical colon that follows after "immeditely after the tribulation of those days", changing the entire meaning of the sentence. Matt 24:29-31 - A colon is missing in this passage in all English translations due to Jesuits being on all translation committees, causing all to purposely err such that they are lost to Christ. In the Greek interlinear Bible, a colon immediately comes after "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" drawing the reader's attention to the list of items after the colon which are 1) the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light 2) the stars will fall from heaven, 3) and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. So, these are the events or tribulation (grouped together as a single event) of those days that will cause consternation of the nations. By the way, the pretrib rapture occurs just before the stars strike the earth as per Rev 12:4B (cause) and 1 Kings 19:11-12. Back to Matthew, then seven years later, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." when Jesus returns at His Second Coming. The gathering of His elect from the four corners of heaven and earth occurs at the time of the pretrib rapture when Christ gathers the spirits in heaven who come back with Him and He gathers those in and on the four corners of the Earth who will rise into the clouds to meet Him in the air. Individual scriptures are not necessarily listed in order of occurrence. This is why the Bible says "rightly dividing the Word of God" and that its "precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; ""here a little there a little."" " (Isaiah 28:10) Soon, this year or sometime through the beginning of fall 2027, there will be three days/nights of blackness and darkness that encompasses the whole world, as prophesied (Matt 12:39-40) in which the pretrib rapture will occur (Days of Noah; days of Lot; days of Jews' exodus from Egypt, Isaiah 66:7-9; Rev 4:1-2, 12:5). This is the night when no one can work (John 9:4). If you are an apostate believing/espousing lies against Him, you must return to Him by the time of the blackness or darkness or you will be forever separated from Him. I do not judge nor condemn you or anyone else. I merely declare the truth. One's own words will either justify or condemn them on that day (Matt 12:37). For Christ will not come to judge the wicked, as the words He has spoken will judge them (John 12:47-48). I warn out of love, while contending for the faith.. I am a watchman on the wall for my Lord Jesus Christ.

Very well done! While I don’t believe in a "7 year tribulation" in the first place, I'm "post-trib" in a manner of speaking and I'm definitely going to use some of these charts myself. I'll give proper attribution of course. (Just fyi, like most of the Protestant Reformers, I believe all of Daniel's 70 Weeks Prophecy in Daniel 9 was fulfilled in Jesus' time, and closed w the stoning of Stephen. Hence, there is no remaining "week," or 7 years, from that prophecy yet to be fulfilled.)

@handles617

11 ай бұрын

Are you amillenial?

@ThePreparedAdventist

11 ай бұрын

@@handles617 No. Historicist & premillenial (as opposed to preterist or futurist).

@chironow3446

11 ай бұрын

The seven weeks ended in 70ish AD

@ThePreparedAdventist

11 ай бұрын

@@chironow3446 We'll have to agree to disagree. Agreeably, I hope. 😊

@fernandomaximoff3489

11 ай бұрын

Agreed! there is no 7 year tribulation, it's only 3 1/2 years. On the Daniel's week, I think Jesus completed the 7 week, but only the half as it says (when He died) and the other half (3 1/2) maybe belongs to THE GREAT TRIBULATION wich is the other 3 1/2 half

I love you 😍 💗 yes finally!😮

nailed it

Brother Joel, I have some homework for you, a bonus on this teaching if you will. Compare these two passages to Zechariah 9:14-16 Notably, the description of the arrow going forth as lightning, the Lord being seen over them, the Lord God blowing the trumpet (like Jesus said He would send forth His angels with the sound of a trumpet/the trump of God), and then His people being lifted up above the land like an ensign, like stones in a crown, put on display. Also notably Jesus goes south, which plays into your own idea of Him going to Mt Sinai. I believe both Jesus, and Paul were referring to this, and that Paul was referring to this as the Last Trump rather than the 7th trumpet in Revelation. Similar reasoning to you disputing the idea that Paul got 1 Thessalonians 4 purely from new revelation, what's the more reasonable interpretation.. that Paul was referring to Zechariah.. or that Paul was referring to a book that would not be written for decades after his death by means of new direct revelation? The 7th trumpet in revelation is not blown by Jesus, it is blown by an angel. This passage being referred to by Jesus, attributing Himself as the Lord God who blows the trumpet, is also a profound statement, of Jesus declaring Himself to be the Lord God Almighty outside of the Gospel of John. A lot of times Muslims will dispute that Jesus ever claimed to be God, thinking it as an invention of Paul's, and then saying John was a heretic because his gospel most clearly has Jesus identify Himself as God as well. But if statements like this are in all the gospels.. well, it's unavoidable, Jesus claimed to be God and the Muslims don't have anything to stand on.

If you read 2 Thessalonians 2 1-12 you can say for sure Jesus will not return pre-trib. God's word says Do not be decieved. He is not coming back until after the falling away, the antichrist is revealed and calls himself god. We all just need to be ready to meet our Saviour at any time. Our lives can end today! What will the timing of Jesus return matter in the scope of eternity.

@mikenunya4491

11 ай бұрын

Pre-tribbers just can't seem to read that passage in the plain language.

@awake780

11 ай бұрын

@@mikenunya4491so true

Pre mid and post are all true. That resolves the paradoxes.

When Jesus returns, as a believer, why am I mourning?

@ShamelesslyRed

11 ай бұрын

Believers won't be mourning. The world, as set against God, will be mourning

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

Ha Ha Ha someone else finally caught that same thing that I saw. You can't be comforted by these words and also be in mourning at the same time!!! Two separate people groups. Two separate events!!

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

@@seanc2788 LOL. Not at all. Try reading Rev 6.

@benny-yj7pq

11 ай бұрын

Yes, two separate events, but at the same day, not 7 years apart (Luke 17:29-37) @@seanc2788

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 I have read Revelation 6. Which part of it? Those are the people crying and dying and going to hell. Look at the rider of the pale horse more closely. Death and Hades follow him. I hope there are no Christians in that first 2 billion people who are killed because they are SOL if they are on the planet when the first year of the Tribulation begins. You don't see them come on the scene until the 5th seal. It takes time (and 4 horsemen) for people to finally realize the truth that the 144k are preaching. Then they start dying for the name of Christ. Otherwise if they don't die in His name they end up in hell. Study better.

Us pretribbers do have an answer to this and you know what it is. It's that Matthew 24:29-31 is the Second Coming. What I'd love to hear you address is why we're told that we're not appointed to suffer God's wrath if we're saved? Every believer has tribulation in this life. I've had a severe chronic pain disorder for thirty years that has made me bedridden for the past decade, but there's a difference between going through tribulation and going through THE tribulation which is the wrath of God on an unbelieving world.

@carriebasso5075

9 ай бұрын

This preacher is obviously faith and works Gospel? Salvation is not works!Trying to earn there salvation by enduring to the end to be saved! and doing the commandments to be save or stay saved! That's how they try to prove no pre-trib! Galatians 2:15-21 [15]We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, [16]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. [17]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. [18]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

@juliewirch2992

9 ай бұрын

@@carriebasso5075 Amen

@kyairamarbury

9 ай бұрын

Post trib agrees we aren’t appointed to wrath. The difference is when we believe the wrath starts. Pre-trib thinks wrath is the full 7 years. Post trib thinks it’s just the very end of the 7 years on the day of the Lord.

@cryptojihadi265

8 ай бұрын

God's wrath are the 7 bowls which are the 7th and last Trumpet. Right when Paul tells us the rapture will be. Confirmed with being after the resurrection which is spelled out in Rev 20:4-5 to include those who died for not worshipping the beast or taking his mark. THAT is called the FIST resurrection. So no rapture can possibly take place before THAT one. Ergo, Ota impossible for the rapture to occur before the tr8bulation or the beast is revealed and the saints are beheaded for not worshipping the beast.

@juliewirch2992

8 ай бұрын

@@cryptojihadi265 Interesting. I always appreciate hearing people's post trib arguments so that I can understand why you believe what you do. Thanks.

Revelation 3:10 New International Version 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

@robertlawson4295

11 ай бұрын

Yes, but the method is described in Psalm 91. Noah was not removed from the Earth during the Flood but he was most certainly divinely protected. God has a very good aim, He can pour out the fury of His wrath on someone standing right next to you without harming a single hair on your head as the Scripture itself states. You will see the punishment of the wicked only with your eyes but it will not come near you. How great a promise of deliverance!

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

So you believe when Christians are being killed that that is a trial that comes upon the whole world? It does not. Just one example for you. Rev 17 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. The wrath of God follows the rapture. The church is on the earth during the wrath of Satan.

@aeroflyte

11 ай бұрын

@@jamescole3152 Tribulation Saints and martyrs. People will come to Christ after the removal of His Bride.

@dannywilliamson3340

11 ай бұрын

That's right. And the glorified church is seen in Chapter 4 seated on thrones, wearing white robes, with crowns on their heads. Who are these 24 Elders? They tell us in Chapter 5 verses 9 and 10. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." No one but the church can sing of being redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. And only after the church is taken home does the Lamb take the 7-seal scroll and begin to break the seals.

@okteri

11 ай бұрын

The church is never mentioned again after Revelation 4. Why? Because it has been removed.

Another matching phrase that's not apparent in this graph is Jesus coming on the clouds of the SKY (Matt. 24) and the Lord descending from HEAVEN (1 Thess. 4). In the original Greek of these verses those two words are translated from the same Greek word. I believe the KJV uses "heaven" for both.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

That's correct. The dimension of heaven is just above the earths inner atmosphere. When Jesus opens the portal between the two dimensions and calls us home to be with him, we pass by this earth's heaven and into the real one. That is why Jesus doesn't come "half way back" to the planet. He just calls us from the air, but the dimension of heaven is just outside of our visible sight. Once he opens it, we will know.

Throughout church history, the ‘rapture passages’ have been consistently and rightly applied to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ✔️

Over 200 comments and much division, misunderstanding and misinterpretation. What's the real issue? Right/Wrong Pre, post, pre mil, post mil, saw mill? Ask this question: by not knowing the day or hour does it produce in you a desire to be pleasing to the Lord when he does return? While positionally we are with our Lord by faith, justified by his blood, until we die we're in a constant stat of sanctification until which time we get our glorified bodies or die and our souls wait with until glorification. The blessed hope as described in Titus 2:13 is preceded by instructions on how we should live Titus 2:12. This isnt all but certainly directs us correctly because we're all sinners who've fallen short of the Glory of the Lord. So we occupy, being the Salt and Light, sharing the Word when the Spirit prompts us. Going back to the Well to renew ourselves and come back into communion when we've fallen. The Spirit is speaking to all of you. We all see through a mirror darkly. God's Love for us is so tremendous we can't fathom the breadth, heigth, depth, or width. Lastly and most importantly is to Love God with all our hearts and Love our neighbors as ourselves. Simply pondering the magnitude of these two directives will grow in all of us a deeper relationship with our Lord and Savior and all those around us. God bless you all and may we all continue to seek our Lord with everything in us. ❤

@mcgeorgerl

11 ай бұрын

Thanks, you made me chuckle.... "saw mill". Clever.

Here's a questions that utterly destroys a pre-trib rapture: If, as pre-trib advocates believe, Jesus is coming before the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, why does Jesus warn about false sightings of himself...7 years later, in Matthew 24?

@kenklein9228

10 ай бұрын

Very good!

@snackpup

10 ай бұрын

he is talking to jews in judeah who obviously did not get saved by the gospel but got left behind for Jacobs trouble the last 7 years of daniels prophecy . and they have to hold the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments. faith plus works. unlike now which is faith plus nothing what to do if you miss the rapture kzread.info/dash/bejne/oZOku9RrXbiZmM4.htmlsi=kgu3nZ3Ru4zHFbpd

@db7354

9 ай бұрын

Excellent point.

@snackpup

9 ай бұрын

Because you will think you can go up after the rapture. But you can't. They are setting a trap for you

@kenklein9228

9 ай бұрын

@@snackpup The trap is Dispensational balderdash that persuades Christians of the idea that the gospels and all letters except Paul's are written to Jews rather than Christians.

The church of Smyrma did it for me, why would God put the church of Smyrma through tribulation and not the pre tribers especially when the church of Smyrma has treasures stored in heaven. Doesn't make sense does it.

I would agree, except for Paul not having chapter breaks and writing a conjunction, between the chapter breaks translators added for our benefit, that makes a logical transition contrasting what he wrote after the passage in Thessalonians 4 with the following statement about the "day of the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4 is the gathering of the bride as promised by Jesus in John 14, contrasted to the day of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 5. I pray the Lord continues to bless your ministry as you go out to fulfill the great commission of making disciples of everyone. Thank you for sharing this view and allowing the assembly to be Bereans and agree or disagree. In the Love of our Lord, Greg

I absolutely love all your teachings, if I may please ask that maybe do the announcements either before or after the teaching, the interruption mid study is so distracting.

The Lord Jesus personally teaches, when He comes again. He teaches nothing of a secret coming. A secret coming is taught by those who usurp the teachings of Christ. Any doctrine that is taught today by ANYONE that is not founded in the teachings of Christ, is a false teaching. If the Lord Jesus teaches He comes immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, THEN, that should be sufficient for us.

We are not appointed to wrath. Read Revelation 3:10. Also "Thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." I believe the rapture discussion was divulged as said in Daniel. Our knowledge has increased.

@katebee945

9 ай бұрын

We are not appointed to God's wrath but we have been persecuted, tortured and killed from day one. Post or mid trib do not believe in being appointed to *God's* wrath, the wrath of the antichrist, yes, as we always have been.

@visionpurposehope7158

9 ай бұрын

@@katebee945 I don't see that the antichrist will send wrath and judgement anywhere in the Bible. These are judgments God sends (thus wrath). We are not appointed to that. Just like the lambs blood painted on the door we are also protected. The rapture truly then makes sense. Also, the restraint needs to be lifted so that the antichrist can come to the forefront. As a corporate body we are a part of the restraining power. Christians hold a great deal of strength only because Christ has strengthened us through our faith and prayer. We also need to pray for Israel.

I brought those Scriptures to pre-trib elder .he piked out boasting of his theologian background. Pride bro.

Mat24 ..from vers29 to 44, theLord is describing His2ndComing...but people, amazingly and with no logic take verses like "no one knows the day or the hour" .." one will be taken and the other left" ..."the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" ....they take these verses from within His2ndComing and construct a fantasy7yPriorComing. It's like saying: ..NewYear's day is different from the 1st ofJanuary and it is coming befor Christmas*)) LordJesus helpUsAll.

@bawbjusbawb6471

11 ай бұрын

Brothers and Sisters, I would like to share this with you... Concerning the "Thief in the Night"... Much of "Christianity" is in darkness concerning the Feasts of YeHoVaH... They degradate them as "Jewish" Feasts and have replaced them with festivals of men... But those who know the Feasts of YeHoVaH will tell you that "Not knowing the Day or the Hour" is a Hebrew Idiom... The Feasts of YeHoVaH are the ones in the Bible that Yeshua and ALL the Apostles celebrated even AFTER the Ascension of Yeshua... The Day of Trumpets is the ONLY Feast determined by the "New Moon"... Only the Father knows when the "New Moon" will appear in the sky... Therefore, no one knows the "Day or the Hour" when this Feast is to begin... The Apostle Paul was speaking to his "Brothers" who were also knowledgeable about the Feasts of YeHoVaH when he stated this: 1 Thessalonians 5:1through 4 - 1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, WE DON OT NEED TO WRITE TO YOU. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 👉4BUT YOU BROTHERS, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS SO THAT THIS DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU LIKE A THIEF. 👈 Yeshua the Messiah fulfilled ALL of the Spring Feasts on His first coming... He will fulfill ALL of the Fall Feasts on His return... We will know the season when the "Abomination of Desolation" is set up... Please read through the Book of Revelation for referencing of TRUMPETS being blown upon the return of Yeshua... Just some food for thought...

@petier.6149

Ай бұрын

The "last trumpet" in 1.Kor15 is referring to Rosh HaShanah aka Yom HaKeseh too.

Another nail in the decaying Pretrib coffin!

@Dave_Williamson

11 ай бұрын

See my statement above.

Can I get the over under on whether the Revelation series will be finished pretrib or post trib?? Haha we’re waiting!! 🙏🙏😂

Genuine question about this- I’m not trying to be a contrarian, but how do you explain Luke 17:22-36? Jesus gives the example of Lot and Noah being removed before the wrath of God was poured out in both situations. And the next verses seem to reference the rapture.

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

Yes. Noah going into the ark is a type of rapture. Jesus said it was. And then the wrath of God began which is the flood. What you are missing is the tribulation is the wrath of Satan, not God. So you need proof and here it is. Mat 24 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. Is this the wrath of God? Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Is this the wrath of God? Rev 17 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. Is this the wrath of God? Rev 13 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. Is this the wrath of God? Rev 13 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Is this the wrath of God? Rev 20 Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. Is this the wrath of God?

@unibokk

4 ай бұрын

Hello Lauren you are correct to believe that the church will be removed/raptured before the wrath of God is dispensed on this earth. Christ will return AFTER the great tribulation with his angels. He will then send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet to gather his elect saints. This gathering will begin with the resurrection of the dead in Christ who will then be raptured along with the living saints to be with Jesus Christ in the air. We will receive our glorified bodies at this time when we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Then God will begin dispensing his wrath upon those unbelievers who remain on this earth. This is the day of wrath which is mentioned in Revelation 6:17 and is separate to the tribulation period which happens before Christ returns to rapture his church. The tribulation period is not the day of wrath. It is a period of unstated duration which will include the 'beginning of sorrows' and then the 'great tribulation'. The Christian church will still be on this earth during these tribulations. These tribulations do not include the seven trumpet judgements or the seven vials of wrath which are mentioned in Revelation and which do not happen until after the day of wrath is declared in Revelation 6:17 The Christian church will not be on earth during the period of wrath because we are not destined for wrath. There will be no Christians on earth during this period of wrath, even the dead in Christ will have been resurrected and then raptured along with the living Christians You will notice that the heavenly events events which precede the day of wrath are mentioned in Revelation six when the sixth seal is opened. These events correlate with the glorious return of Jesus Christ and the true rapture as described in Mathew 24:29-31. The unleashing of God's wrath doesn't begin until the seventh seal is opened. So, we are raptured after the great tribulation but before God dispenses his wrath on the unbelievers who remain on this earth after the rapture has taken place. The first five seals correlate with the tribulation period which happens before the glorious return of Christ and the rapture of his church. So, the church is raptured at Christ's second coming before the seven trumpets are sounded, and before the bowls of wrath are poured out. I hope this helps you.

I BELIEVE IN POST TRIBULATION RAPTURE

Yes, it's so clear! Your excellent presentation reminds me of a video I made 12 years ago about the same thing: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aoN8rcNre7rHe7g.html

Also if the "Church" is raptured at the last Trump then how could it be before the Trumpet rapture of Matthew 24:31 surely there can't be 2 different last Trump's 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Which trumpet is the last trumpet here? Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

there are true Christians who's names are written in the book of life who will escape the tribulation...it's called dying how do you explain surviving the tribulation for 7 years? the elect in the first passage are the elect out of the tribulation, the 144000?

The Lord will not let his bride be drugged through the mud of the tribulation and Anti-christ Reign, the scripture teach we are not appointed 15:37 to to wrath 1st Thessalonians 5:9-28 i rest my case we are not going through the great tribulation we will be delivered from it Pre -trib is the truth get ready church Maranantha 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊,

@MATTHEW-ic3id

11 ай бұрын

Wrath doesn’t start till later in the tribulation though. I’d rather die for God as a martyr for refusing the mark than just disappear

What the two viewpoints have in common; they both say that it's perfectly clear. Obviousky it's not, or there wouldn't be two different viewpoints.

@jarrettjb

11 ай бұрын

Exactly! 😂 I have friends in both camps and they both love and fear God and get people saved. As Christians, I think we should focus on the more important stuff like building his kingdom within our callings and getting people saved.

@gaylechristensen6285

11 ай бұрын

@@jarrettjb Amen💖

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

11 ай бұрын

Jesus, Peter and Paul all warns us about the deception surrounding His return... Matt 24:4, 2 Peter 3:10-18, 2 Thess 2:1-3. The difference between the resurrection of the dead and the unbiblical term rapture and the concept that it presents, is that Scripture is clear about the resurrection of the dead. No Scripture offers a rapture prior to tribulation... rather that is an ideal of man, and then Scripture is searched to "allude to", "suggest", etc. that the idea of man has a foundation. The view cannot even be presented without conjured terms like "rapture", "second coming", "tribulation saints", "age of grace", "church age"", etc... without these terms, they cannot even offer their view. Every argument for a rapture is birthed out of deceit.

@chava2uk150

11 ай бұрын

​@jarrettjb surely, Jesus's words carry more authority whatever you think Paul is saying. That should be clear

@onejohn2.26

11 ай бұрын

that's because most Christians are totally deceived. Satan has used the churchto convince Christians they don't even have to keep the Commandments of God and somehow they will be saved.

So if you're going to be here for the tribulation what are you going to do?

@3DPDK

11 ай бұрын

Jesus tells us about this time to keep our eyes on God. To trust in God to provide daily needs and a hedge of protection. It will be the most difficult test of faith for any Christian alive at the time - and some, if not many will fail. Jesus said "Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity". Understand that our goal is NOT to save our physical lives at all cost. Jesus did not task us with *surviving* to the end of the time of great troubles. The Christian goal is to remain faithful to God even at the brink of death and resist the urge to save your physical life by complying to the ruling evil.

@mcgeorgerl

11 ай бұрын

Maybe get my head cut off. Maybe starve to death. Maybe have all of my assets taken away. Maybe get thrown into prison. What's your point? Revelation 12:11, "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

@user-qb7lu5ny5r

11 ай бұрын

Trust the LORD 'til my last breath. I maybe facing a gruesome death but that wouldn't make me less compared to other believers. Hopefully, my faith would be more solid and tough than the hardships I'd be enduring in those days. It would be an honor to share the hardships the ealier believers had endured and also with the people who would endure it with me because of faith.

Paul was teaching on Jesusis words

In 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Paul says "Behold, I show you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" which is the same thing he reiterated in 1 Thessalonians 4:15‭-‬17: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. That's why olivet discourse of Jesus is different than that of MYSTERY of the rapture which was revealed to Paul. This video has strengthened my position of a pretrib rapture and I humbly ask the post tribbers to prayerfully with an open heart look into the scriptures about pretrib rapture instead of listening to any man. Maranatha ❤🙏🏼

@claudiagujbavarga4719

11 ай бұрын

Mat24:31 and 1Cor15:52 and 1Tes4:16, are pointing to eachother în the subtexts. All 3 talk about the 2ndComing afterTrib.

@benny-yj7pq

11 ай бұрын

The NT Saints are resurrected first at His parousia, which is His 2.coming and not a secret coming. Do you have a coming of the Lord and a Resurrection of the NT Saints before the Tribulation? I cannot find one scripture in the bible, because Yeshua says He comes after the Tribulation and the Bible does not contradict itself. Your Pre-trib is not scriptural.

@user-qb7lu5ny5r

11 ай бұрын

Please re-read again the chapter(s) in Thessalonians. Paul was clear with what he said of when the Second Coming of the Lord would come. He had already cleared out the confusions when the believers were divided of when's the Lord's return. It's tied up to what the Lord Himself said in Matthew 24.

Why is the church not mentioned after REV 4. I believe in the pretrib theology. Paul affirmed in Thess 1:10 and 5:9 that the church is to escape Gods wrath. John seems to place the Rapture in Rev 4:1

@handles617

11 ай бұрын

The "church" is not mentioned because he only mentioned the word church beforehand to send literal letters to 7 literal churches..John only uses the word because he's ACTUALLY TALKING TO LOCAL CHURCHES HERE. Paul calls believers saints multiple times, as the phrases are used in revelation. As for 1 thess 1 10 and 1 thess 5 9, we agree we do not experience the wrath of God. You should actually take time to research your opposing view before arguing against it. Even ignoring the above point, 1 thess 5 9 isn't about the rapture, the wrath is eternal in that verse. Hence, the opposite of salvation(eternal life) is (eternal) wrath. If the opposite of eternal life was being in "the tribulations wrath" then nobody would be able to be saved that is in it.

@handles617

11 ай бұрын

Also, for revelation 4; 1, he's literally seeing a vision this whole time. He's not actually in heaven when he sees this. Even ignoring this, claiming it "proves a rapture" is just using origens allegory, which pre trib claims to oppose because "they only interpret literally"

@aradragoon1

11 ай бұрын

@@handles617 I won't put in the effort to write a long winded response. Suffice it to say that ALL scripture is God breathed. John says he was commanded "come up here, " meaning he was commanded to come up and see the throne. Where is the throne? Heaven. With that Rev. 22:19 is very clear "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Saying this is just a vision IS taking away from this book. Period. As for rapture. The Greek word is "Harpazo" which means to be snatched up/away (out of danger) as a friend or companion. This was translated to "Rapturo" in the Latin Vulgate which then became widely known as "the rapture" due to the length of time that Latin was used for the bible. So whether you like it or not rapture is biblical.

@vhopvecasadeoracion4461

11 ай бұрын

Why God is no mentioned in the book of Esther?

@mikenunya4491

11 ай бұрын

The tribulation is not God's wrath, plain and simple. The Bible tells you as much.

I believed in pre-trib and then later on became fine with either Pre-trib or Post-trib , but then, I realized that's not right. It sounds like I didn't care. People are arguing over this, and there must be ONE truth behind all of these. It's okay to listen to your pastors but it's much better to confirm the fact by reading the bible in context. Thank God that the bible told me the truth. Pre-trib is a lie. Our Lord Jesus confirmed when He would come, John, Daniel, Peter, and Paul were one with His statement. So, I was freed by these confusions. Glory be to God!

And I think if there's was a seven year space of time as pretribbers declare then where's The scripture saying that I think that would be a fact scripture would make a mention of

@michaelseay9783

11 ай бұрын

They get the 7 years from Daniel’s 70th Week by saying the 70th Week (7 years) is still in the future. But what if the 70th Week has already been fulfilled?

You've beaten this dead horse to a bloody pulp, and your time is much better spent going back to finish your series on the book of Revelation.

@witnessesforchristcolorado9893

11 ай бұрын

Yikes😬

@JP-jq1qx

11 ай бұрын

This teaching is a prerequisite to studying Rev. If people buy into pre-trib, they will not take Revelation seriously at all, but just read it casually because it is meant for others.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

It generates revenue when you stir up controversy. More people tune in.

@thetruthdefendsitself

11 ай бұрын

@@JP-jq1qx I totally agree, but how many videos does it take to get the point across? Joel and Dalton are great teachers, and all I'm saying is there time is better spent continuing their teaching of Revelation where they left off.

Hey Joel, you are free to call me foolish again brother. But I stand firm that pre tribulation rapture believers are following a different ’jesus; and another gospel. We were commanded to preach the Gospel in truth in its complete entirety. This means the Gospel of the coming kingdom. When a sinner comes into true salvation through Christ - they receive Gods Holy Spirit yes? Then Joel how can a pre tribulation rapture believer be corrected and edified by the same ‘Holy Spirit” as a pre wrath believer? The fact is Joel is that the pre tribulation rapture ‘Jesus’ is the antichrist. The entire purpose of the pre tribulation rapture deception when it was delivered by Satan IS to deceive the elect. Thus, they will turn from God, turn away from the faith and take the mark of the beast. As for them being brothers and sisters? Pray for them. They are lost in the deception. Yeshua Jesus Christ did not proclaim 2 gospels 2 groups of saved 2 separate second returns.

@michellebehr7669

11 ай бұрын

The disciples believed Jesus was going to restore Israel and couldn't absorb what He said when He told them He would be put to death. It was so far from their minds to the point Peter told Jesus NOT SO Lord! There are believers in the pre-trib group that will be able to stand when the time comes.

@hcgdesmoines

11 ай бұрын

Rev 16:15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” This verse is at Bowl 7 wrath. I think it's pretty clear. True believers are not appointed to God's wrath but it doesn't say anywhere that we won't be here. I'm believing more and more we will be here to be a witness and will be protected during God's wrath.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

The rapture has nothing to do with your salvation. Start there.

Matthew cannot be used to establish a timing of end times events because Matthew is presenting Jesus as King of kings and therefore lumped Jesus' sayings together by subject without regard to the time or context in which he said each statement. All post tribbers make this same error.

@mikenunya4491

11 ай бұрын

Except that Matthew 24 is a chronological description of events given by Jesus in response to a specific question. "when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Jesus then gives all the various societal signs, including persecution of those called by His name, as well as the final signs in the heavens, and then He returns in power and great glory. Just read Matthew 24 as though it is directed toward you, a last days believer in Messiah, without any church tradition of saying its just for Jews, and you will understand it greatly!

@ghostownaproach

11 ай бұрын

@@mikenunya4491 prove to yourself by comparing in Matthew where Jesus says Matthew 24:28 KJV For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (verse 28 is way before verse 40-41 right? Yet this verse is an answer to a question that is brought about because of a statement that hasn't been made yet and won't be made until verse 40 so these statements are not recorded in the order that they were spoken in Matthew but they are in Luke.) And now Luke's quoting that same saying Luke 17:36-37 KJV Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [37] And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. You see the disciples asked Jesus where the ones taken were taken to and his answer is to the battle of Armageddon where birds will feed on dead battle-fallen carcasses. But when you go back to Matthew again you'll notice that Jesus gives the answer to their question before he even says the one taken and the other left statement and in fact it comes many verses later after he has already given the answer to the question of Where Lord are they taken? Matthew 24:40-41 KJV Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luke gives us the account IN ORDER while Matthew just records the things Jesus said but not why he said them or in what order. Luke 1:3 KJV It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

@church7180

11 ай бұрын

Sir, your comment makes no sense when taking the whole of Matthew’s Gospel into account.

@ghostownaproach

11 ай бұрын

@@church7180 every post trib argument includes as proof how Matthew says "Immediately after the tribulation..." But because Matthew recorded sayings of Jesus by subject this only proves that after the tribulation certain things will happen. It doesn't prove that there is no rapture before the tribulation.

@mikenunya4491

11 ай бұрын

@@church7180 The Great Commission is in Matthew. Is that just for the Jews also?

I wish we could share information, we are right in the same page. J.M.M.

We'll all come to the knowledge of truth one day. Humble yourselves before the lord & find ways to be unified. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. New International Version 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

@michellebehr7669

11 ай бұрын

This doesn't fall under any of those categories. It's not about the law nor is it foolish. Others want to study to show ourselves approved.

@deannaJesusIsLord

11 ай бұрын

I wouldn’t say this is a salvation issue but it is important nonetheless because they are being deceived and think God would not put them through the tribulation. This could lead to further deception by false messiahs. Our churches are filled with deception including the trinity teaching. There is only 1 Lord God who came down into the body of Christ. Jesus is the Almighty God Himself … He shares His glory with no one. God is Holy and is Spirit (He is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the great I Am. Isaiah 43 explains it so well (one verse says “I, even I am the Lord and besides me there is no Savior.” Trinity is another infiltration. The apostles knew who Jesus was and that is why when Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, they always baptized “in the name of Jesus.” One Creator, One Savior, One Mighty God. The Lord cannot contradict Himself and Isaiah 43 and Isaiah 9:6 and many more.

@barbarza

11 ай бұрын

Not only deceived, but they hold to supremacy of Rome and its offshoots protesting catholics denominations. Find "Barry Phillips Bride, Concubine and Harlot" lecture online under this title and ....hold on to your rails!

@mikek001

11 ай бұрын

Galations 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

@mikek001

11 ай бұрын

2 Corinthians 10:1¶Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ-who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

It is my understanding that the Thessalonians to whom Paul was speaking to where arguing amongst one another over whether or not those who died before them were saved or not. Rumors were apparently being spread that the resurrection applied only to those alive at Christ's return. Paul was seeking to disabuse the Thessalonians of their angst over this false information that seemed to have infected the church.

@okteri

11 ай бұрын

The Thessalonians were afraid they had missed the rapture. Most scriptures point to the Lords second coming. The rapture has always been imminent

This is called rightly dividing the word... Comparing scriptures side-by-side...

You are correct about the "elect". The "elect" (eklektos) (Matt.24:22 -- for whose sake those days will be cut short) is used only 22 (23) times in the whole of the New Testament. In seven instances, the word is utilized in reference to this End Times prophecy. In all but four instances where this word is used in the New Testament it is always a reference to believers. The four exceptions are: I Tim. 5:21 (where it refers to “elect“ angels), and three references to Christ (Lk. 23:35, I Pet. 2:4, 6). As such, it should be ascertained from its use above (as well as in the subsequent End Times passages), that the elect (i.e. believers) are present on earth during the end times tribulation. It is never once used in association with Israel in the NT. Not once.

So we the Church are now appointed to Wrath?

@Logic807

6 ай бұрын

Read the Bible yourself. No Joel, nobody telling you anything…what do you read? What is the plain reading? Jesus says it clearly….and NT calls the saints to always endure…. As far as the saints are concerned. Jesus says hell are for cowards. Gulp.

Two questions that mid and post tribulation experts refused to answer: #1 How and When did the Bride (church) arrive UP in heaven in Revelation 19:7 KJB #2 Why would you think you are going to be "raptured" DURING/AFTER the tribulation if Jesus Christ is coming DOWN to rule in Jerusalem for 1,000 years? Revelation 19:11 KJB NOTE: It seems nonsensical to vehemently disagree with the Pre-trib perspective, but not even mention each other. It should stand to reason; if you were basing your position purely on the word of God, why not disqualify each others viewpoint altogether, if your argument based on the scriptures?

One thing I would like to point out is that the scripture reads, “…that we who are alive and REMAIN until the coming…”. Why is the word REMAIN used? The meaning of REMAIN is to stay in place after an event of some kind. Why doesn’t the scripture just read those of us who are alive AT the coming…”??? Instead, it reads, “alive AND REMAIN.” Is it possible that those who remained are the lukewarm church or those who only appeared to be as true believing (but we’re in fact not, but later BECOME true believing Christians) up to a certain point, that is, the rapture? This seems to get into the parable of the 10 virgins. The five wise virgins, which had belief and the anointing of the Holy Spirit (oil), were taken into the wedding feast, and the five foolish who appeared to be believing, but did not have the Holy Spirit were left out. Paul counts those believers as equal to himself as “we”because at the time of Jesus‘s triumphal return they have become true believers and they are gathered up to meet all the others who are with Jesus already. I could be wrong, but it seems that there is more than two possibilities here. Also, the letter to the church of Philadelphia specifically mentions “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” clearly, the church of Philadelphia is kept protected, by a rapture, or a hiding away, or some other supernatural means. I don’t think it’s one way, or the other, but both!!!

@user-qb7lu5ny5r

11 ай бұрын

I suggest to also read the chapter before and after when Paul said that. And what event(s)he had mentioned before that very verse. Just a suggestion.

@scott596

10 ай бұрын

It says We which Remain Alive are Gathered Up Together with the Dead in Christ

I think instead of focusing on Matthew 24 we need to look at the wording in Mark's olivet discourse which breaks up the gathering of the elect into all those on earth (the living) and those in heaven, ( the dead). We can clearly see a resurrection and rapture here in Mark's account which then also matches up with Ephesians 1:10. We should conclude all these, including 1st Thessalonians 4 as well, are all speaking about the same thing. And Mark's chapter 13 account is what verifies this. Hebrews 11:39-40 also shows there is no breaking up of the resurrection of old testament saints and new testament. We have a long list of old testament saints in chapter 11 and we are told that all of them have not received the promise yet, that God has something better prepared for us, that they (old testament saints) should not be made perfect apart from us (new testament saints.)

@benny-yj7pq

11 ай бұрын

The OT Saints were made perfect through the death of Christ and resurrected as first fruits with Christ (Mat 27:52; 1.Cor 15:20+23; Heb 12:23). We are also made perfect at the cross and the resurrection of the NT Saints is the First Resurrection (Rev 20:4-6). There is no scripture that points to a resurrection together with the NT Saints, Paul says there is an order in the resurrections, every group at their time. First the first fruits, afterwards the NT Saints and than the rest at the end of the Millennium. 3 resurrections with the change to immortality, not more and not less.

@seasquawker

11 ай бұрын

@benny-yj7pq Well, unless I'm misunderstanding Hebrews 11:39-40, then I don't think that's the case.

@seasquawker

11 ай бұрын

The dead raised in Matthew 27:52 seems to be a temporary resurrection, perhaps the cleaning out of Abraham's bosom (Luke 16) and a transfer to heaven since we know dead souls are under the altar in heaven in Revelation 6:9-11). But none of these have been made perfect yet. Even Job in chapter 14, says he will not be made perfect until the heavens are no more, and then he asks God to conceal him until His wrath is past. That could only be a reference to Matthew 24:29 or Revelation 6:12-14, and also Isaiah 26:19-21. "Close your doors behind you, and hide as for a little moment, until the indignation is past." Kept hidden in His tabernacle. Psalm 27:5, Psalm 31:20, Matthew 25:10.

@benny-yj7pq

11 ай бұрын

@@seasquawker The resurrected with Christ were seen in Jerusalem by many. Dead souls you cannot see. Job does not say, he will not be made perfect, until the Heavens are no more. Job 14:12 is about His 2.coming with the resurrection of the NT Saints and the Rapture. Paul gives us exact details about 3 resurrections with a change to immortality. WE have to follow Paul's teaching in the right order, and not read our view into OT scripture. Every Rapture view is Prewrath. We are not appointed to orge wrath. And orge wrath comes only at His 2.coming, first mentioned in Rev 6:16+17, after the Tribulation, the same as in Mat 24:29 and Rev 6:12-14, as you said right. Isa 26:19 the dead come out of the dust (earth) and includes Isaiah himself. That is the resurrection of the OT Saints,

@seasquawker

11 ай бұрын

So then how do you deal with Hebrews 11:39-40 then? It says that "all of these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us." We've got a lot of old testament saints here in Hebrews 11 and it says that they have not yet received the promise of being made perfect. This is the "change" that is talked about by Job in 14:14-15 and I think that Paul also describes it in 1st Corinthians 15:51-53. We have the dead raised first followed by the living being raptured and both receiving their change. Psalm 50:4-5 also describes this gathering of all in heaven and those on earth. Psalm 7:7 says the congregation will encompass Him. I think this is also what is described in Ephesians 1:10.

If Matthew 24 is not the same event as 1 Thes 4 re the rapture (Which it is), then the word of God is open to interpretation...An unreasonable commitment to dispensationalism allows this to happen - coming from Pastors and carried over to the flock.

I’ve been taught pre trib and believed it for many years. For the most part still do just not completely sold on it. I think the biggest struggle is pre, mid, pre wrath and post all have in common?? They all have scripture to support their view and claim everyone else is misinterpreting scripture. However, post is looking to be more accurate. If someone could answer these two questions it would be most helpful. The Bible say people will be buying, selling, eating drinking and getting married right before his return. If the world has just been beaten relentlessly by Gods wrath, how will life be that normal? And, once Jesus returns he’s separating the sheep from the goats destroying sin and those who took the mark of the beast. If everyone is raptured at the end, who is going into the millennial reign?

@handles617

11 ай бұрын

The first question is answered by not taking it hyper literally. Jesus is using parables to make it simple to get his point across. We aren't literally going to all be in mills or fields with 50% gone to jesus as the 2 other parables state. It's simply saying that the unbelievers will go on about their lives unrepentant in their ways. Remember that pre trib states that 2 thess 2 says the gathering or "rapture" occurs BEFORE the day of the lord. Yet jesus in the Noahs ark parable, just like all the other parables, states that its the same day "until the day noah entered the ark" yet pre trib was just busy claiming the rapture is a different day from his punishment and 2nd coming. Only post or pre wrath can explain this consistently. Then there's the fact that Jesus NEVER mentions anybody being saved. They're all destroyed. Matthew 24 should be properly read chronologically, so the parables at the end are all 2nd coming. "The coming of the son of man(remember verses 29-31) will be like the days of noah" "soon too will it be at the coming of the son of man"

@jaredvikse2096

11 ай бұрын

You'll definitely want to watch a lot more of FAI videos. They go in to great detail with all your questions.

@JoelRichardson

11 ай бұрын

HI Chadwick, To your first question: It is very common, when the Bible speaks of the last days to summarizes it all using various terms. So when Jesus says that folks will essentially be going about their lives when the Son of Man comes, He is not likely speaking exclusively about His glorious coming, but about the entirety of the events that surround His coming, including the tribulation. The Sheep and Goat judgment is not a judgment of individuals, but nations. The Scriptures speak of many "survivors" from the nations going into the Millennium. Zechariah 14 is an excellent example. Forgive my brevity. I hope this helps. Blessings, Joel

@jamesbales941

11 ай бұрын

Here's my answer to the 1st question. Jesus is teaching that, before his return, the world will be going on with their ordinary business, completely oblivious to impending divine judgment. The pretrib interpretation, however, makes no sense and is contradicted by the fact that pretribs at the same time, believe the unprecedented wrath of God through the trumpet and bowl judgments occur before the battle of Armageddon. In other words, how can the world be going on with their ordinary business completely oblivious during the trumpet and bowl judgments? How would Jesus’s return at the judgment of Armageddon catch the ungodly off guard as a “thief.” It makes no sense. Rather, what Jesus is depicting through his illustrations is that the separation pictured at Matthew 24:31 occurs-not in the context of Armageddon-but instead at the rapture which will take place just before the day of the Lord’s wrath begins followed by the trumpet and bowl judgments. When Armageddon does finally arrive, the world by that time will have already been beleaguered from God’s wrath. In fact, the armies of the world will be going after Jesus himself who will be king in Jerusalem. This is a far cry from the world being oblivious to Jesus’s coming for them as a thief after God’s trumpet and bowl judgments have transpired! I believe the following is a much better interpretation of Jesus’s illustrations. During the Antichrist’s great tribulation, the world will be saying “peace and safety,” completely oblivious of God’s impending judgment. Those days of great tribulation will be cut short at some unknown day and hour when Jesus returns in the clouds and raptures his people. On that same day (rapture), the trumpet and bowl judgments begin and are ultimately culminated by Armageddon. Here is my answer to the 2nd question. The Bible teaches that after the return of Christ, He will set up an earthly kingdom of 1000 years in duration. The constituents of this earthly kingdom will include both saved and glorified individuals as well as saved and non-glorified individuals. The saved and glorified individuals will consist of all the saved of all the ages from Adam to the last beheaded martyr. The saved and non-glorified group will consist of a remnant of Israel (who is saved at the conclusion of the 70th Week of Daniel) and some Gentile believers who survive to the Day of the Lord. Following the battle of Armageddon, Christ will sit in judgment of those remaining alive on the earth in what has been called the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matt. 25:31-46). Those Gentile believers, who evidenced their faith by how they treated the Jews during the Great Tribulation, will enter the Millennial kingdom along with the saved Jewish remnant. There are many Scriptures which give us insight into the conditions on earth during the Millennial reign of Christ. These include Isaiah 35, 60-62, 65; Ezek. 40-48; Micah 4; and Rev. 20-22. From these passages we understand that the Millennial kingdom will be an earthly kingdom, with Christ ruling from the New Jerusalem which will descend from heaven and reside above Mt. Zion. Christ will rule in righteousness over the inhabitants of earth. During this time the earth will have been restored to conditions similar to before the Fall of Adam: wild animals will be tame, there will be no war, trees will give abundant fruit, sin will be punished. Ezekiel 47 points out the fact that fishermen will fish in the waters of the rivers and will catch “very many” fish. So the activities of life continue in a normal fashion, only with a righteous government, peace and perfect conditions. The saved but non-glorified group of individuals will enter the Millennial kingdom in natural, human bodies They will grow, mature, marry, procreate, age, and die (Isa. 65:20-25). Revelation 22 and Ezekiel 47 tell us that the leaves of the trees that grow along the river of life are for the healing of the nations. Isaiah 65 tells us that people on earth at that time will live long lives, and if someone dies at 100 he will be considered accursed. Evidently, similar to those days prior to the flood, people will live hundreds of years. During these 1000 years, Israel will be the chief nation of the world and will be restored to the full dimensions of her land which God promised. Mt. Zion will be raised up as the chief mountain in the world and it is from here that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem (Ps. 68:16; 132:13-14; Micah 4:1-8). King David will be resurrected and will be the chief prince over the nation of Israel (Jer. 30:9; Ezek. 37:24-25). All other nations will honor Israel and will worship God in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that those nations who do not come up to Jerusalem every year to worship God will be punished with no rain. While all the saved, but non-glorified individuals who initially enter the Millennial kingdom will be believers, we understand that during the millennium there will be many people born. Some of these will choose to not follow the leadership of Christ and will be rebellious in their hearts. Those born during this time are born with the same sin nature that humans now are cursed with. Thus, when Satan is released at the conclusion of the 1000 years, he is able to amass a great army to come against the “beloved City”, Jerusalem (Rev. 20:7-10). Sorry for the long reply, but there were no short answers to your questions. I hope this is helpful.

@chadwickdoyle2293

11 ай бұрын

@@jamesbales941 no apologies needed. Thank you for the response!

Irenaeus (130 A.D. - 202 AD) Bishop. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp. Polycarp learned his Christian faith from the apostle John, “…the disciple whom Jesus loved…” (John 21:7) As well as writing the gospel that bears his name and a number of early letters, John wrote the Book of Revelation. There could be no better tutor other than the Lord Jesus himself. Both Polycarp and Irenaeus knew John personally. Irenaeus later became bishop of the church in Lyons, France and is famous for his five volume treatise, Against Heresies, which described and challenged all false teaching from the emerging cults of his day. Irenaeus believed in the three and a half year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and in the resurrection of the just. Irenaeus also believed in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church. In Against Heresies 5:29 he wrote: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. Note Irenaeus’ use of the, “caught up.” It is the exact same Rapture terminology used in 1 Thessalonians 4. The word used is 1 Thessalonians 4, is “harpazo”, meaning to be “caught up.” Irenaeus believed that the Rapture of the Church occurred prior to the beginning of the Great Tribulation 13 mentions of HARPAZO in the bible.

@db7354

9 ай бұрын

Irenaeus was not pre-trib at all, and the text you quote does not support that view at all. Joel does a pretty good job dismantling this claim in another video. For those who are interested - kzread.info/dash/bejne/mqaV25Ocg7TdZps.html

@paultimson6674

9 ай бұрын

@@db7354 i do not know what you were reading mate? And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. PLAIN AS SLICED BREAD.

@db7354

8 ай бұрын

@@paultimson6674 I posted a reply to you a couple weeks ago but I don’t see it here so I’m posting again. Take a close look at the quote you posted. “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For 𝐓𝐇𝐈𝐒 is the last 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐞𝐨𝐮𝐬, in which, when they 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐞 they are crowned with incorruption.” What is the contest that Irenaeus refers to and what will the righteous overcome? Is it not the tribulation that he just mentioned in the previous sentence? Of course it is, and any other interpretation of this is just a twisting of his words. Here are a couple more quotes from Irenaeus so you can better understand his clear post-trib beliefs…..same as all the other church fathers. “For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐮𝐫𝐫𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐣𝐮𝐬𝐭, 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐜𝐡 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐀𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in which the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord.” (Against Heresies V, 35,1) Regarding our recognition of the Antichrist, he states: “… But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes 𝐖𝐄 𝐦𝐚𝐲 𝐚𝐯𝐨𝐢𝐝 𝐡𝐢𝐦, 𝐛𝐞𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐰𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐡𝐞 𝐢𝐬....” (Against Heresies V, 30,4)

Been studying all kinds of teachers, reading scripture, and praying for discernment. I believe that the great tribulation already happened. We are waiting on the second coming of Jesus Christ. Which, i hope is soon!

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

You ain't seen nothing yet.

@shellydavis6784

11 ай бұрын

@@seanc2788 what is the purpose of your comment? are you wanting to be heralded as some great know it all? does it make you feel better?

@mcgeorgerl

11 ай бұрын

I don't know how you're taking his comment, but it made me feel better. I think that I just found another brother!@@shellydavis6784

@dannywilliamson3340

11 ай бұрын

So Satan is bound right now?? I think his chain is way too long.

@seanc2788

11 ай бұрын

@@shellydavis6784 If you think we are in the Tribulation, or that it has already happened, you really haven't seen hardship yet. But it's coming. The key is to be saved. Saved from the Tribulation that is coming. Because if those days were not cut short (limited to 7 years) no flesh would survive. 99% of the population on the earth will be killed. It's not a salvation issue. It's an eviction issue. God wants his planet back. Those left on it after the rapture are subject to death, it's the only way out. That's why there is no such thing as a post-trib rapture.

BTW I can answer those 2 passages of scripture but I truly dont want to argue over this especially with brother and sisters n christ...theres nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree...

Does not Matthew 24:37-42, where people are taken out of the world, teach a posttribulational rapture? In fact, Matthew 24:37-42 teaches just the opposite. First, the historical illustration of Noah (vv. 37-39) teaches that Noah and his family were left alive while the whole world was taken away in death and judgment. This is exactly the sequence to be expected at Christ’s second coming as taught in the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:24-43), the parable of the dragnet (Matt. 13:47-50), and the sheep-goat nation judgment (Matt. 25:31-46). In all of these cases, at the final event in Christ’s second coming, unbelievers are taken away in judgment and righteous believers remain. Thus no, this passage does not teach about the rapture. Does not a pretribulational rapture result in two second comings of Christ while Scripture teaches only one second coming? Not at all. No matter what rapture position one holds, Christ’s second coming is one event which occurs in two parts: (1) Christ coming in the air to rapture the church; and (2) Christ coming to earth to conquer, judge, and set up His kingdom. When Jeremiah writes (30:7), “And it is the time of Jacob’s distress, but he will be saved from it,” is this not the same kind of language used in Revelation 3:10 (kept from) and would not Revelation 3:10 then point to a posttribulational rapture? The Septuagint (37:7, LXX reference) translates the Hebrew text of Jeremiah (30:7, Hebrew and English reference) with the verb and preposition combination sozo apo in regard to Israel. They will actually be saved through the judgment and emerge out of it as the people of God over whom Christ will reign as promised to David (2 Sam. 7:8-17) and prophesied by Ezekiel (37:11-28). Because sozo apo means “protected in the midst of,” this has no bearing on the meaning of a different verb and preposition used in Revelation 3:10 (tereo ek). See the earlier discussion on the actual verb/preposition combination in Revelation 3:10. Finally, there is no necessary equation of the outcome to Israel and God’s plan for the church. If pretribulationism is true, why is there no mention of the “church” in heaven in Revelation 4-19? It is true that the word for “church” (ekklesia) is not used of the church in heaven in Revelation 4-19. However, that does not mean the church is invisible. There are at least two distinct appearances of the church in heaven. First, the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4-5 symbolize the church. Second, the phrase “you saints and apostles and prophets” in Revelation 18:20 refers clearly to the church in heaven. So, what rapture scenario best accounts for the church being in heaven in these texts at this time? A pretribulational rapture. Why is Revelation addressed to the church, if the church will not experience the tribulation of Revelation 6-19 due to a pretribulational rapture? God frequently warned Israel in the OT of impending judgment, even though the generation who received the prophecy would not experience it. As mentioned in the previous answer to Question 2, both Paul (1 Thess. 5:6) and Peter (2 Pet. 3:14-15) used a future judgment, which the people to whom they wrote would not experience, to exhort God’s people to present godly living. The same pattern was followed by John in Revelation. The church was alerted to God’s future judgment of sin on earth as a basis for the church to teach pure doctrine and live holy lives (Rev. 2-3). If the Day of the Lord occurs at the end of Daniel’s seventieth week, does not the chronological sequence of 1 Thessalonian 4 and 1 Thessalonian 5 teach a postribulational rapture? First, regardless of whether the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning or the end of Daniel’s seventieth week, this point does not necessarily determine the time of the rapture. Second, the grammar of 1 Thessalonians 5:1 argues against a close chronological sequence with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 by the use of peri de (18 times in the NT). In all but four cases, an obvious change in time or topic is implied (see Matt. 22:31; 24:36; Mark 12:26; 13:32). This prepositional phrase is used by Paul 8 times. Every other Pauline use indicates a change in topic. Therefore, it is expected that Paul’s use of peri de in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 also indicates a change in topic and time. This is consistent with his earlier use of peri de in this epistle (cf. 4:9). In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul has answered the question concerning the experience of dead loved ones when the rapture comes. But in 5:1 and following, Paul shifts to the Day of the Lord and the subsequent judgment upon unbelievers. This is a totally different topic than the rapture and an event that will occur at a different time than the rapture. If 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 is to be taken as one unit of thought, as some have suggested, then Paul’s use of peri de means nothing. However, if peri de is to be explained, it is best interpreted as a major shift in thought within the broad topic of eschatology. Only a pretribulational rapture would account for this. Is there any relationship between the rapture trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4:17/1 Corinthians 15:52 and the trumpet of Joel 2:1, or the trumpet of Matthew 24:31, or the trumpet of Revelation 11:15? If so, does this not contradict a pretribulational rapture? A careful study of the almost one hundred uses of “trumpet/trumpets” in the OT will quickly advise the student of Scripture not to equate the trumpets in any two texts hastily, without a great deal of corroborating contextual evidence. For example, there is the trumpet used for warning (Jer. 6:1), the trumpet used for worship/praise (2 Chron. 20:28; Ps. 81:3; 150:3; Isa. 27:3), the trumpet used for victory (1 Sam. 13:3), the trumpet used for recall (2 Sam. 2:28; 18:16), the trumpet used for rejoicing (2 Sam. 6:15), the trumpet used for announcements (2 Sam. 20:1; 1 Kings 1:34; 2 Kings 9:13), and the trumpet for dispersement (2 Sam. 20:22), to name a few. After looking at the texts in question, it appears that each trumpet is used for a purpose that is unique and different from the other three. The trumpet of Joel 2:1 is a trumpet of warning that the Day of the Lord is near (cf. Jer. 6:1). The trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4:17/1 Corinthians 15:52 is a trumpet which announces the approaching king (cf. Ps. 47:5) so that people may go out to greet Him. The trumpet of Matthew 24:31 is a trumpet call to assembly (cf. Exod. 19:16; Neh. 4:20; Joel 2:15). The trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is the seventh in a series of seven and is a trumpet that announces victory (cf. 1 Sam. 13:3). There is no compelling reason to equate the rapture trumpet with any of these other three trumpets. Therefore, these texts cannot be used to determine the time of the rapture. Does not the promise of deliverance for church saints in 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, at the time when Jesus returns with His angels to judge the world, point to a later rapture time than pretribulational? Paul is not writing a detailed, chronological, or even precise prophetic treatise here, but rather is wanting to give the Thessalonians hope that, in the end, God’s righteousness will prevail. Like OT prophets (cf. Isa. 61:1-2; 2 Pet. 1:10-11), Paul has compressed the details so that the range of time is not apparent, nor are all of the details. The apostle is plainly assuring the Thessalonians that there will certainly be a coming day of retribution for their persecutors. This text really has no bearing on determining the time of the rapture.

Matthew 24 is reference to second coming. Not rapture of the church

@jamescole3152

11 ай бұрын

Nonsense. The rapture is always in the clouds. The second coming is on white horses. Hard to confuse a cloud with a horse unless you are brainwashed by the pre trib teaching. At the rapture the church meets Jesus in the clouds. The second coming the church returns with Christ and everyone is riding white horses. The Rapture of the Church Rev 1 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen Mat 24 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Acts 1 New King James Version *Jesus Ascends to Heaven* 9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” The Second Coming of Christ Rev 19 Christ on a White Horse 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Its very clear Jesus will come to get his church the rapture. And He will come with his church in second coming

@mikenunya4491

11 ай бұрын

That's not clear at all. That is an American church tradition, full of assumptions and assertions not backed up in the Bible.

Matthew 24 is not a rapture passage. 1thessalonians 2 is about the concern of those who are asleep.

@kenklein9228

3 ай бұрын

It's all the same.

After Paul described the rapture escape in 1 Thess 4-5, he basically said the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night and bad people won’t escape, but you should repent because you weren’t called to wrath. Paul was echoing Jesus’ Olivet Discourse warning to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all the things that are coming to pass (Great Tribulation/Day of the Lord) and stand before him. BTW I’m mid-trib, but I agree with pre-trib on most points.

@metapolitikgedanken612

11 ай бұрын

There will be a gathering of the elect after the tribulation. That should settle the question. The pre-tribbers try to give false hope to people and this will come as a shock to them.

@jarrettjb

11 ай бұрын

You have some balanced comments here. I grew up in the rapture of the church before the tribulation light of thinking. Having watched many FAI teachings, I now don’t claim either viewpoint. I think any Christian can live a highly effective life for God, and accomplish their mission on earth properly, without using either line of thinking.

@michellebehr7669

11 ай бұрын

2 PETER chapter 3 says "the thief in the night" and is talking about the second coming

@biblehistoryscience3530

11 ай бұрын

@jarrettjb , I agree with your sentiment about the possibility of living for God without even thinking about the rapture (or end times). However, the Bible warns us the worst time in human history is ahead, calls us to escape it to the marriage supper of the Lamb, and teaches us how to escape. Many people think salvation from sin guarantees their entry, but Jesus warned everyone to be prepared for his appearing or risk being left behind. So, repent from sin, watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape everything and stand before the Son of man. Matt 24:37 thru 5:13, Luke 21:34-36, Rev 3:1-5, 19:6-10

@biblehistoryscience3530

11 ай бұрын

@@michellebehr7669, the Day of the Lord is a long period of time that starts soon after the rapture, and Peter describes the destruction of the universe that’s later described in Rev 20 between the Millennium and Great White Throne.

How many resurrections will there be? Answer: two. Blessed and holy are they who are in the first resurrection (Rev 20:6). (Keep in mind that the rapture and the first resurrection are the same) This glorious event takes place when the two witnesses are raptured/resurrected. (1) they hear a great voice from heaven saying unto them, "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. (Rev 11:12) (2) first the dead in Christ are raised and quickly followed by those who are alive (whose bodies takes on immortality in the moment in the twinkling of an eye.) (3) our enemies will see us ascend into heaven just was people saw Jesus ascend into heaven. (4) people won’t believe that they have been left behind. They will think that the resurrection is magic OR that we are being abducted by aliens OR some other nonsense. (5) Rev 11:13-14 starts the second and third woes. We won't experience it because we have just been raptured! Thank you, Lord Jesus!!

Is God bound by scripture, or is He free to answer prayes. Jesus could pass like Jonah without his prophesy coming to pass, if the world repents like Ninevah. Didn't he offer the sign of Jonah?

@timothykuring3016

10 ай бұрын

Jesus was pissed off at the wicked generation, because he knew they would have little or no motivation to repent. So he gave them the horror story, through John of all the horrible things that would happen, in increasing numbers and intensity, as they continued to refuse to repent. The only miracle they would get was repentance or death. They were to watch the signs of all those bad things coming on the Earth because they were to understand that repentance was the only option with equally increasing intensity. Repentance of the world ends the horrors of Revelations. Those who have no sin might as well be removed, because they have no reason to witness the wrath, and they are already repentant. They can opt to leave or remain with protection, by the invisible mark of the angel. I think it's up to their own prayers. My prayers are for the last judgement followed by the new creation, so I'm already way past the reign of Christ.