I am a truck driver and work at farming, we use anti seize compound on all our wheel studs never have trouble spinning off nuts. Great channel bud!

@phillip_lee

Жыл бұрын

I agree, lube I'm not sure, definitely do anti-seize which is a type of lube. Holding force is between mating surface of nut and surface of wheel rim, I would prefer that to be dry. If you've ever had to break a seized thread on a lug nut you'll adopt the same opinion. YOU MUST PROPERLY TORQUE THE LUG NUT!

@Vickyvee97

Жыл бұрын

Yea I've worked at Firestone and a Trucking company and I've never had any returns or complaints. In fact I've had customers insist that i do their cars or trucks because I use anti seize and no one else does..

@pete1342

9 ай бұрын

One thing about using anti seize. It will change your torque values drastically. I learned that the hard way years ago by using anti seize on some tractor head bolts. I stretched several of them almost to the point of breakage before I realized what was happening, ruining the bolts, and never even came close to the recommended torque value.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

@@pete1342 ....obviously you are no engineer or mechanic. The torque settings specified are base on the size of the bolt ....whether the threads are wet or dry. "Anti-seize" merely has additives that are allegedly "better" than grease. A "wheel bearing grease" works just fine ....just as any other "multi-purpose" grease. So how did you know you were "almost to the point of breakage"? I'd love to hear your answer. .

Ive worked in the Trucking / Dealer / Fleet industry for 40 years and have always instructed my mechanical teams to use some lubriating compound on all wheel studs

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the helpful confirmation.

I worked in a oil refinery as a pipefitter for 13 years. Your explanation of bolt streetch and clamping forces is absolutely correct. Lubricating the threads is necessary to provide even torque among all studs.

@michaelszczys8316

Жыл бұрын

Taking apart my motorcycle engine that has rods like cars I was studying about the torque versus bolt stretch and before taking rods apart I measured the length and wrote it down. When I reassemble I'm going to go more by stretch length than torque. I'll be checking both to get it right back where it was.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

@@michaelszczys8316 ....how does one measure the length of a bolt when it is "installed"???? And do you have any idea how much "stretch" is involved. Do you think the bolts are stretching 1/4" or something similar???? .

@michaelszczys8316

4 ай бұрын

@@taxicamel most cases it is hard to measure stretch. In the case of rod bolts on connecting rods you can access both ends of the bolt and measure with micrometer. It is only in thousands.

Great conversation! You covered the topic well. I’m in camp that believes anti seize is good thing. I get a sense of satisfaction knowing that the next time I get back into the assembly I won’t have to fight with rusty fasteners and rust-welded rotors.

I bought a new tube of anti-seize the other day. I noticed it said 'do not use on lug nuts'. I have been using it on lug nuts for several decades and never had so much as one nut come loose. Believe I will keep on doing what has worked for me.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

So far .....ONE INTELLIGENT COMMENT ......based on actual EXPERIENCE. What does your "experience" say about the "warning" on the packaging? .

@debluetailfly

4 ай бұрын

​@@taxicamel We live in a litigious society. The legal system is overreactive. Every business is afraid of lawsuits. Therefore we get pages of warnings of what not to do with everything we purchase. Lawyers are getting paid to write out all those warnings. We have a large segment of society being paid to do jobs that shouldn't exist.

another consideration: when the nut is almost tight, if it is dry, it tries to twist the stud, and sometimes these studs break. if there is grease, it helps the two threads to slide against each other, and the bolt is pulled straight.

For almost 50 years, I always greased my wheel lug nuts and bolts with 80% of the recommended torque. Never had any problems and always being able to remove my wheels. Same between the hubs and the brake rotors.

Spot on, just as other comments, I worked as a pipe fitter and applied "bolts" to flanges per ASTM specifications for years. Per specifications, specified "anti-size" is a requirement. The "bolt" is this torqued to the required spec. I've applied this to my wheel studs for over 25 years and have never had a failure. Proper torque is the key. The torque is dependent on the "lubrication". A rusty bolt will not achieve the proper torque. I generally prefer a "Copper" anti size. Just because this is what is spec'ed out in most requirements. Also to your point on "sequence" , there is definitely a sequence in three passes. Then I have always run a "round" pattern. The bolt is considered "torqued" when the proper tension has been achieved on the stud or bolt. "Lubricant" is a necessary part of properly "tensioning" the stud or bolt. I'm not an engineer, but this has been consistent in industry specifications meeting engineering standards.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

Most important in your comment is that you are NOT an engineer. Any idea what qualifications "MadMatt" has? Your other common sense comment is about "rusty bolt". Quite honestly, I have NEVER come across a "rusty bolt" on wheels. HOWEVER, if I did, I would perform a proper wire brushing on the studs before re-assembling ....and in particular IF I was going to lube the studs before re-assembling. "Copper anti-seize" can be used on almost anything .....as can any kind of grease on wheel studs. It's probably far more important that threads are clean as best can be done. .

@hustledancing-americasfuns3830

2 ай бұрын

Did you know that virtually all automobiles sold in the USA specify that the "proper torque" is on DRY lug nuts?

Per my comments in previous video, I agree. Well I've never said that I have about 750,000 miles under my belt driving big heavy commercial trucks dragging 53 ft trailers. In the United States most tire shops did not grease look like that's on big rigs. But on every truck and trailer there is a little sticker that says torque the lug nuts between 450 and 550 lb. Nearly every tire shop that actually does torque per US department of transportation regulations they can play us with said stickers have giant torque torque wrenches and they torque to 490 lb. Your receipts for doing the work there was a notation to torque the bolts nuts after 150 to 400 miles of driving. Mag rim dually tire on rear wheel there is a plastic spacer it is to be placed between the mag rims to prevent electrolysis welding of the rims, together. Note: in 1947 a company called Bell laboratories took out a patent on a photoelectric cell that uses the heat from the Sun to produce electricity not the light the heat by using two very thin dissimilar metals making light contact with each other expansion and contraction of uneven movement produce 1.5 volts of DC current. Friction=static electricity. In my younger years when I had steel rims and steel drums and steel rotors meeting surfaces on vehicles I didn't bother to grease my lug nuts or the face but with mg rims to prevent the electrolysis taking place. I've got seven vehicles I have to maintain at the age of 68 years. Good video really good video Matt.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks mate. I appreciate the insights and experience.

I’ve been applying lube to the studs on my truck for over 30 years. Never had a problem with them coming off or vibrating loose. The studs are something that are overlooked especially if you buy a second hand car. You don’t know if the previous owners had a gun set to melt to tighten the nuts. Awesome content. If you didn’t learn something from this vid then I don’t know what to say. Well informed Matt. Keep up the great work. Well done 👏👏👏

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Jack. Your experience is worth noting.

Anti-seize acts as a lubrication, and you end up with much more pre-load being applied to the studs when using anti-seize and applying the normal levels of torque to the lug nut. To get the correct pre-load on the studs (bolts) you have to only apply 70% of the recommended torque to the lug nuts, its as simple as that.

@MadMatt4WD

8 ай бұрын

Yes.

Keep doing you Matt, ive watched your videos for some time now and l have learnt some valuable lessons. You shoot from the heart and you can't get any more honest than that. Looking forward to the next video, cheers Geoff

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words Geoff

I worked as a tyre fitter for many year in my younger years. Everything you said is spot on! You mentioned "bolt stretch", for the last 20 years I've worked in the vegetation industry and have to change blades on wood Chipper's/munchers. The manufacturers recommend that the bolts that hold the blades be replaced after having been tightened 5-10 times as the bolts stretch. I'm not suggesting that wheel studs should be replaced periodically because the torque settings are much higher on chipper blades but it is something to consider.

@berndeikers8924

Жыл бұрын

hello pat, if you dont miss use the studs ( like overtighten them one way or the other), they are in good shape, threads are ok, i dont see any reason to change them.

@malcolmmarzo2461

Жыл бұрын

On aircraft propellor blade bolts (a super critical application) the bolts are replaced with a propellor change.

Dad, Grandad and stepdad have always hammered home to grease the lug nuts. All three were involved in trucks farming and engineering! I'll be teaching my kids the same.

When you lube anykind of bolt or stud it changes the friction coefficients which causes you to end up with more torque on the fastener then what you apply when threads are wet alows them to have more friction and bites more.. but thats my experience as a Mechanic and how friction and dynamics work with friction items.. you can put anti seize on wheel studs in places that have rust its generally better to do it without antiseize to make sure they dont end up over tight and warping the rotors.. Antiseize will not effect clamping force other then torque value.. bolt or Stud Stretch is how the clamping force is made.. antiseize helps stop Galling which keeps threads from being deformed or Ripping out.. If your going to do antiseize make sure your using a wet setting when your torqueing over a Dry torque setting torque specs will be different wet vs dry.. 4:00

In my opinion you are 100% correct Matt especially on rally cars and 4x4s things that are in contact with mud dust dirty water and other foreign debris . Wheel nuts do seize and I have always used a tiny smear of copper grease.

I agree with you matt on everything you have said Especially the way of installing the wheel nuts

An amazingly correct and accurate explanation of clamping force and what actually happens where nuts are done up! Perfect! I will say here I am an electrical, mechanical engineer of more than 30 years in the trades, I was taught in my City and Guilds courses to lubricate the threads. It does many things as you have explained. Dry(old dirty/rusted) studs will not have the same even clamp force for the same torque. and to be fair any difference in increased clamp force for the same torque in wheel studs isn't going to break the stud, if it does, I would consider not ever usinng that stud again!! In the motor industry there are some threads that are stated as lube and others that are stated as do not lube, mostly the do not lube are where heat is occuring and the lube might hydrolock the bolt and/or cause a compression crack in the material if/when it is heated and expands. One last thing; great that you admit your errors and faults, something too many people don't do or hide them up to look perfect, we're not, we are all just slightly flawed! The other thing about sequences on doing up bolts is that it makes sure they are done up! As you say, it can clamp one side and not the other, I've had situations that the first nut is torqued and by the time you get to the last, the first one is not torqued at all. I normally torque the bolts on the Landy 6 times, bolt 1 gets checked at the finish. if that is loose, go around the star shaped circuit again.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks kindly for your encouraging and authoritative response.

great effort to bring it all together, thx again for your work, matt. i.m.h.o. some things are missing. first: clean the threads, especialy if your offroading. use some breakcleaner or petrol and brushes to get rid of whatever is there. you want believe how smooth the nuts will sit. moisture will sit where the stud gets out of the hub and corrision starts there. 2 - you may use this antiseeze stuff. plain grease will do the job 3- when you clean the surfaces of the drum and the rim, put a little grease on the contact aerea. this will prevent corrision and that they seeze together. 4- when tighten up the rim on the drum, tighten it up soft while the car is jacked up, and tighten it to spec when the wheel is on the ground 5- nothing against tireshop mecanics. but how you would feel putting tires off and on all day long? they do a very hard job. so stay aside give some indications especialy if you put grease on the threads (they wont like it) but they see that you really care and you are on top of it. then they will be more careful. i had once some really bad experience that they banged a rim on so hard with an air driven impactgun, that the rim actualy started to bent and had to be replaced. customer think that they are professional and should know. actualy in all this years i met only 2 who really did care with what they were doing. the rest unfortuanetly didnt care that much. stay on top of it but at the end i think we are coming around.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

I think you are the only commenter that has it all right ......particularly the tire shops. In Canada, and I doubt anywhere else is different, they use pneumatic impact guns. Not one of these guys "changes" their settings on these guns. So the guns are set for the bigger one-ton trucks, or heavier, .....and this is the setting they use on smallest of cars. This is NOT a challenging job other than lifting wheel assemblies up and down and removing and installing tires on rims. This guys can't wait to get to the bar after work. In other words, they don't care unless there is someone standing there watching them. .

Exactly correct matt . You explained that very well. Yes there are some cases such as some BMW rocker bolts that don't have lube on threads .

Good video to put out there Matt. I like the last idea you had about redoing the nuts to the correct torque yourself so you know your vehicle is done right.

Matt, I always use a lubricant on all threads including wheel studs, usually a nickel or copper anti-seize although I have now been using ceramic anti-seize (because it's less messy and works really well) my thoughts are.... I am likely to be the person who needs to remove the stud or nut and bolt later on down the line and my explanation to those armchair critics is.... "ARP cylinder head studs and big end bolts have to be lubricated prior to being torqued and are supplied with ARP lubricant! So argue with them about the lubrication of threads!" Arguments over! 👍

@bvward

Жыл бұрын

I was also thinking ARP... Using them in my Miata build ☺

I agree with all your advice. Interesting that my Land Rover was delivered from the factory with anti sieze on the wheel studs. Their torque of 140NM also seems to be a compromise which is good for both lubricated and non lubricated studs. If anyone takes the wheels off my car I insist they put them back on by hand using a torque wrench.

I suggest using anti seize over grease or oil. The soft metal in the anti seize makes it a better option for this application in my opinion. Acts as sort of a crush washer to help things stay tight and protect the two harder metals from chewing each other up, but shears easily when taking the nuts loose. Just what I like to use.

Of course I lubricate my wheel studs. But I use a paste which equals the friction coefficient. I do not use simple grease, there is a risk of over tightening. Just read "An Introduction to the Design and Behavior of Bolted Joints" from John H. Bickford. He is the author of the standard manual for maintenance in nuclear plants, which is a lot about bolted connections (where tightening bolts must be documented (wrenches are used which write a protocol of the tightening process)). Matt, you're absolutely right with what you said. The paste I use is Molycote 1000. It designed to lubricate bolted connections which must withstand high strains and high clamping forces. It equals the friction coefficient to a defined value which is the most important thing to prevent that a bolted connection gets loose. Bickford refers to tests which where made by different organisations which have shown, how different the applied torque is, when studs are not lubricated. And different torque between studs clamping the same part and facing the same strains is worse than having the wrong torque applied.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

When I worked on big diesel every bolt had a tightening procedure and was lubed with never seize.

I think that one reason the manufacturers spec the torque dry is that the manufacturer doesn't know what lubricant might be used in the future and so the clamping force could vary with the different coefficients of friction of different lubricants. The manufacturer would have to specify exactly what lubricant to use, along with the specified torque, to have the required clamping force.

The pitch of the thread being shallow on a wheel studs reduces the chances of the nut working itself undone. Lube or not to lube is personal choice.....as you have pointed out....if you lube reduce torque settings. Anyway keep up the great content! Cheers

Ive been a mechanic for 20+ years. There is written documentation that states a drop of oil on lug studs will keep lug nuts working properly and helps keep rust and salt from causing binding and galling. Reducing torque is correct also. Ive never had lugs or wheels come off. Great video!

Your absolutely right in your thoughts and reasons

You are spot on and I am over justifying using antiseize on the wheel studs and then reducing my torque by 30% to others in groups and using a torque wrench. I can't even get my Isuzu dealer around the concept and drive out after a service and redo my wheel nut torque with my torque wrench myself around the corner from the dealer.

Matt, When I assemble things exposed to excess heat or the dreaded road salt/brine of our winter, I always use anti-seize. I prefer a bit of staining to a broken stud or bolt ☺

Personally I don't use grease, I use dry silicone spray. I do however use brake cleaner on bolts and nuts every time to help prevent filthy threads. Thanking for taking the time to be honest and humble by admitting your mistake and reminding even us time educated people that we all make mistakes. 👍👍🤠

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure and glad to help a bit.

@taxicamel

4 ай бұрын

I am curious .....why are you using "dry" silicone spray? .

@noelaird3273

4 ай бұрын

@@taxicamel because it doesn't collect dirt as easy. Motorcycle chain oil is good too

Good video Matt. I voted on your poll that I don't grease my nuts but honestly after watching this and thinking back I probably should. When I was a teenager I used to work in a push bike shop (Yes I know big difference) but we used to grease all the nuts & bolts including wheel nuts, peddles etc etc and never did anything come loose. I have done that ever since when I have worked on a push bike and again nothing has ever come loose. I generally grease every other nut and bolt on the car when working on it but have never done my wheel nuts. Maybe it could be a good idea to do it. As for the Torque settings well I've only ever once used a Torque wrench to do up my wheel nuts, normally I get them tight and give them a slight bit of an extra turn. If at home I use the rattle gun and nip them up that tiny bit extra, it generally isn't more than 1/4 turn, probably closer on 1/8 of a turn. I have never had an issue with a wheel coming off from my tightening methods and never had a stud snap, Knock on wood I never do. I have had wheels come loose after being at the mechanics or tyre shops though especially in my old Hilux. Stud type is also a big thing, When I changed from Steel rims to Alloy's I needed to replace all the wheel nuts as they did not tighten right.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Great comment thanks for that

Great video. I agree 100%, especially using anti cease. When properly torqued the lubricant will not allow the nut to work free. The only time I had issue was when I went for new tires and the mechanic got his pretty little gloves dirty. He got mad. 40 year Millwright in Canada. Great show.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words.

Great ep I recon your spot on,

Good info, Matt. I don't lube, but the threads have to be clean. Thanks.

You are 100% correct!

Great info Matt,my local tyre fitters uses the rattle gun first, and then uses the Torque Bar on every vehicle that comes in for tyre fitting ,great service

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

My old guys did too. Well worth the effort travelling to guys like that

Great topic and Video Mate

As a retired Auto Tech of 40 years I have never had a wheel come loose. Torque to factory spec will never come close to loosening. Your comment about lessening the torque with lubricant is spot on. I live in a very dry climate so rust is generally not an issue but when wheel lugs are rusty or corroded I do use antiseize, sparingly! Use lubricant where recommended. Try tightening a torque to yield head bolt without it and it will fail miserably, dry applications outside the engine internals generally don't require it. Thanks Matt!

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment mate

I think the nut and bolts are easy to Understand if looking at the threads as a wedge.

will be putting some grease on my studs next time I rotate my wheels! keep it up Matt!

I am a luber, had a tyre company put some new tyres and rims on when I first got my 80, didn't think anything on it till after a few trips up the beach. They had the nuts on so tight and the nuts sort of seized and couldn't change the tyre. Was lucky someone in the convoy had a rattle gun otherwise we were calling roadside assistance. Never had an issue or been unable to undo nuts on the side of the road since.

Good one Matt. I would also emphasise the need to keep mating surfaces clean from sand and dirt., as you have. This includes nut taper and rim, as well as wheel and drum. I was a tyre fitter in years gone by, and many (most)customers had some dirt all over the area. A grain of sand between mating surfaces can be crushed to dust over a few kms and then something is loose. We did not not grease studs but if dirty would clean and if rusty would clean a bit more. I would have no problem using light dab of grease.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Good comment.

You are a class act.

I was thinking of an interesting experiment one could do to estimate by what factor thread lubricant is affecting the clamping force. Clean all the threads on the stud and lug nut so that the threads are clean and dry and where the lug nut spins on the stud without binding. Torque the lug nuts to spec, let's say 100 ft*lbs for simplicity. Take a sharp pointed marker to draw an alignment mark between the lug nut and the wheel. Remove the wheel and grease the stud threads with your anti seize compound. Retorque the lug nuts until the marks are in alignment again, the stud has been stretched the same amount, and notice the reading on your torque wrench; it should be less. The ratio of the smaller torque to the original torque is the factor that you should apply to the dry torque spec to achieve the same clamping force with greased threads.

@MadMatt4WD

7 ай бұрын

All those specs are known and can be found in engineering books. At its highest level the lubricity of each product will be considered for a given size bolt. But in this situation 20-30% is a good guide.

Some people need to find issues out of anything, give em the red thread locker idea and I bet they would do it.

Thanks Matt. I didn't disagree or agree before due to lack of empirical evidence. However it did seem logical so I was leaning towards being in agreement. Thanks for the content. Cheers

Could talk for a lot lot longer than that about nuts, and especially high tensile bolted joints in general. You don't need to worry about lubricating the nut face. That's absolutely fine to do. What you don't want to do is lubricate the hub face or wheel flange where they meet. The load of the vehicle is carried by the friction between the hub face and wheel flange, that friction is generated by the clamping load the studs generate. The benefits of lubricating the thread (and nut face) far outweigh the downside, it is something that you should absolutely do. Key advantages here are reducing the amount of torque lost to friction in the thread and nut face and more importantly reducing the variation in friction which provides a more consistent clamping load across all of your studs. You also get some corrosion resistance and prevent galling. The main disadvantage is just the mess. This is engineering not art. The facts here are what count, not opinions, and the facts are absolutely clear. You are doing exactly the right thing by lubricating the studs. Re the friction on the thread and the nut face (tapered such as on a wheel nut or not)... For completeness, so stay with me for a bit, that is what keeps the nut from coming undone. A stud, nut or bolt is an inclined plane wrapped around a cylinder. When you apply a force by doing it up (and inducing strain in the bolt) that inclined plane causes a torque to be generated that tries to undo the nut. The friction generated in the thread and on the nut face is what opposes that torque and stops it coming undone. By lubricating the thread you do reduce the amount of friction that's keeping it there. The important thing here though is that it's completely inconsequential. There's two components to friction, static and kinetic (sometime call friction and sticktion). When doing the bolt up you move the nut across the surface, acting against kinetic friction until the correct torque has been reached and then you stop. You now have static friction to deal with to get it back undone that wasn't there when you did it up. This is the reason a torque wrench needs to be used smoothly and slowly. If you stop start you start dealing with static friction and won't get it right. It's also why impact drivers (IE rattle guns) work so well, the impulse generated when the hammer hits the anvil is quite large and quickly moves you past the static friction. So, you then have to look at how much friction you have when lubricated and how much torque is being applied back onto the bolt by the clamping force. For that wheel stud you're going to put roughly 2000N of clamping force into it at 110Nm, of that 110Nm you put in 35Nm was used overcoming the kinetic friction doing it up. Once done up the tread is going to have about 2.5Nm of torque being applied back onto it trying to undo it. Now static friction is about double the kinetic in this situation, so you need 70Nm to undo it and you have 2.5Nm. I suppose the next question is what clamping force would be needed to get it to undo... It can't. Friction is proportional to the clamping load. If you increase the clamping load you also increase the friction in the thread so all you're going to do is break the bolt. So what affect does lubrication have... It reduces the friction by about three quarters. So instead of needing 70Nm to undo the nut, you'll only need 17Nm. You still only have 2.5Nm. You're closer to having that nut undo, but an inch may as well be a mile and you still have a 7x safety factor in there which is arguably more than enough.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

@dtnicholls1

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD It's frustrating, there's a whole lot of backyard mechanics out there who have literally no idea about the engineering. Even just the simple stuff really isn't that simple in reality. I'm all for people having a go, but if they're going to argue for or against doing something outside of the manufacturers recommended procedure they should understand how it actually works. I know that you do and my comment wasn't for you. It was for those that disagree with you. It was to provide a brief representation of the physics and engineering in a high tensile bolted joint. There's a brain bleed level of detail to it, and the above isn't that by a long shot.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

@@dtnicholls1 I agree that many responses are not considered or understood. I try to be very open to being proved wrong but I need the argument to be made so that I can understand. Yes I knew you were not targeting me not that I’d have a problem if you were because you would take the time to help me understand your position. Just some feedback which may help. Humbly state your credentials in future so we know you have the authority to speak. I’m assuming you have a mechanical engineering background.

Gday Matt im a fitter and machinist always a good idea to use antiseize on threads i never have had problems with them coming loose. Also early in my years at tafe i remember our teacher telling us that a nut and thread acts like a wedge the angle of the thread is that wedge. Great video's mate.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks mate.

Matt! certainly a hot potatoe! :) I'm up in the northeast where the winter months are equivalent to driving through the Atlantic ocean. Some folks rumor around the states that the truck inspectors will issue a failure notice if they see lubricant on wheel lug threads. Without lube around here, sooner or later you'll gall a nut or shear a stud off from creeping rust around the threads. Tightening torque is reduced a fraction because your clamping will be higher with a lubricated fastener. Rust jacking can increase that clamping force over time. I'll use a torque wrench sometimes, mostly someone elses vehicle, #2 on my air gun is tight but not so much that a roadside tire change is impossible. A little on the hub as well to help keep the wheel from getting jammed on there.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

I’ve got no experience in your world but it sounds COLD.

Matt, I've had 2 situations from 2 different tire shops where they must not have torqued all the lug nuts on my wife's Grand Cherokee. In both instances the lug nuts came loose and a wheel started wobbling on her way to work. Both times i arrived with a torque wrench only to find one of the wheel studs broken. I swore after the first time i would make it a practice to retorque the lug nuts after every service in order to double check the service tech's work. I was pissed at myself because i didn't get around to it before the 2nd occurrence. Anyway, i just want to reaffirm how important it is to use a torque wrench to properly torque your wheels, and unfortunately, you can't trust the shop to have done it correctly.

I use a little bit of anti-seize on wheel nuts/lugs/pacers.hubs, etc… for decades. Daily drivers, track cars, trail rigs, etc. as long as everything it torqued properly, never ever had an issue, and no more issues with corrosion or galling.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

100%

Best explanation i have seen.

As an Australian car mechanic who worked in Europe where this is taken seriously, some manufacturers when engineering wheel hubs and wheels leave no clearence for grease so if one does grease the hub and bolts, it can make the wheel come loose. So check the manufacturers specs for wheels and tighening torques. Here in Australia the company I work for makes us do the wheel up with rattle gun then torque wrench then another mechanic does the torque wrench a second time. Overseas the company was the same except were not allowed to use rattle gun and had to be hand tightened. These days be careful using copper anti sieze because it can mess with abs sensors.

If you are not sure; then ask! Go to the local tyre shop and ask to watch over their shoulder to learn how it is done properly. Things I have learnt changing far too many bush truck/trailer wheels (and before tubeless) : #1] Have and use a wire brush to clean all touching surfaces --- basically ; you cannot tighten a wheel properly if the touching surfaces are not clean --- that includes the studs/bolts. #2] remind yourself to use the wire bush The rest is common sense mostly . Lub is mostly to stop rust but a little lub will help remove the nut next time . Old lub and dust needs to be removed next time Always be checking ---- that is have a look at the wheels nuts when near the wheel the same way you should look under the vehicle as you approach the parked vehicle . If it starts to rattle then it's likely too late

great video, subbed. I did my time in a workshop that used anti seize every service, removing wheels every service. several vehicles with high kms we serviced from new. never had an issue with studs. although I never calculated the reduction for tightening with anti seize . for legal reasons I don't like the idea of under torqueing. I would love to see some more investigating into this subject as I feel lubricating the threads and not the taper could be less than 30%

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

The 30% came from a few engineers who responded or sent emails. Anyway even a tad over torque won’t hurt.

Lubricate and reduce factory torque specs. 10-15%. Well know in the industrial word. BTW the friction does prevent the nut from loosening. However if the 'frictional angle' is greater than the pitch angle of the thread it will stay on. There is significant margin on this.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Great comment. Thanks heaps

I've always used lubrication and never had a problem. Antiseize or copper paste is just perfect. I've seen bolts getting very stuck when not lubed and that has never happened to me with lubricated nuts..

A drop of engine oil will prevent thread from overheating and the thread. A little oil will also allow the threads to slide providing a better clamping and accurate torque

Great video thank you

Good explanation apart from the stretching bit, I would describe as 'stretch resisting' ie tension..., it is counter intuitive to most, but yes, the bolt/nut work on LOW thread friction, not HIGH friction... I always lube threads, whether wheel studs, machinery etc ..... also to be considered is the LENGTH of the wheel wrench, it is design specifically so an average strength person can impart the required TORQUE to the nut, ie Ape-strength shop-tool torque is NOT necessary and can potentially ruin your alloys apart from making it near impossible to remove with hand tools

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

I really like your point about the length of the std wheel brace.

I live in the rust belt, and use a little anti-seize on the bolts and on the mating surface of the wheels and have never had an issue. I wish auto manufacturers would use it on every nut and bolt on the car. Whenever I have the opportunity, I undo bolts and nuts, put antiseize on the thread and torque them back again. I also use anti corrosion spray in any electric connector I can.

@MadMatt4WD

6 ай бұрын

That’s the way. Do you adjust the torque to account for the lube.

I lube my wheel studs , love yu work Matt.

Once I almost forgot to torque down my wheels. Since then my procedure is to bring out my torque wrench and set it to the desired value before slapping on the wheels. After hand-installing lug nuts to avoid cross-threading, I use Auto Shut-off Control (mode-4) on my Milwaukee 2962 impact wrench, a feature which ensures they will not be torque to any more than 35 lb-ft, leaving the remainder of the process to my torque wrench once I have placed the vehicle back on the ground.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

I really like that process.

Here because a shop over-torqued all my lugs to the point where I broke a breaker bar trying to get them loose. Should I replace the studs for safety as they may be compromised at this point?

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Yes you need to change all studs.

Any tips for road side wheel swap when you don’t have a torque wrench with you? Let’s say with the factory tools?

@MadMatt4WD

7 ай бұрын

In that case just do them up tight as you can with the factory tool and then be aware of any odd noises or vibrations until you get it sorted out correctly.

I've never had a wheel fall off but I have broken wheel studs when trying to undo them hence I always use anti-seize or a dab of grease.

I’ve been using anti seize on wheel studs for 40+ years and have NEVER had a wheel come loose or a broken stud. That being said, I torque the wheels in a cross pattern then, torque check in a circle .. I always retorque after 100klm.

Great video on this I'm a qualified Chef that knows bugger all about mechanics so I find your channel very helpful. But I can explain how tp make the perfect Souffle'

@MadMatt4WD

11 ай бұрын

We really should hang out. I love eating but can’t cook. 😂

just out of curiosity, instead of lubricating, would anti-seize compound work better in the case of lug nuts?

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Same same. I’m useing never sieze

@vtct_ytaa

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD only realised just how similar they are after going through the comments and your video thoroughly lol. thank you for the very clear explanation on topics people don't even think to talk about normally!

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

@@vtct_ytaa I’m glad I could help

Right on Matt! Anyone who calls you an idiot needs to check their own IQ. Love your channel. You are an asset to the 4 wheeling community. Btw I do lube the studs pulling into the plate. Not the studs to lug nuts but that’s just me. I am open to the debate as I would like to lube them.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support and kind words

@MaxairEngineering

Жыл бұрын

Well I finally decided to take your advise and never-seize my lugs. I had a lot of issues with shops galling my nuts and studs. One local shop damaged my lugs 6 different times. The last time I had to snap one to get the nut off. I lowered torque 20% to account for the lube and I will verify the torque periodically. Thanks mate!

The only time I ever saw a wheel come off is when my brother in law replaced his factory wheels with aftermarket wheels on his Chevy Blazer. He was going around a corner and all of the studs snapped off and the wheel went into the river. We found out that the wheel studs were inadequate when a wheel with a stiff structure was mounted on the Blazer. The factory wheels were stamped sheet metal and will flex when encountering shock loads. The aftermarket heavy steel wheels did not flex and all of the load was hammered into the wheel studs. The fix was to drill out the holes to fit 1/2 inch wheel studs which were bigger. After this was done to all four corners, he never had a problem with the bigger tires and wheels.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Wow I’ve never heard of that before. I know new mags take a bit to settle in so it pays to keep an eye on the nuts for the first little while.

Here in the UK I have always put a little copper slip on my wheel bolts as every used car I have bought has been a pig to undo the bolts for the first time, I do it just once when I buy the car

Mechanic of 40 years here. Never lubed wheel nuts unless asked to. Never had trouble with any wheel nuts I've fitted myself. 30 years touring Oz in 4wds etc. Nine Simpson crossings, 16 Cape York trips, etc etc. I won't be lubing mine any time soon. People just LOVE to overtighten stuff. Does my head in.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Ok

I'm thinking in this situation , no lubrication is needed . But , anti-seize so the lug nuts have be removed easily and without damage . For tire rotations or if needed , changing the tire if flat for a spare

Do we lubricant head bolts?

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Yes always

Well on the side of having a bit of lubricant on the wheel studs my hilux has a little on them and it dose make it easier to be able to check or remove them, so I have no issue with doing it. I noticed with working in conservation and using cruisers that drive on dirt for 90% of the time and if there is no lubricant on the wheel nuts they can be a bit of a pain to get off or get more stuck from dirt and other contaminants. On the side of the rattle guns I'd rather not use them to tighten up the wheel nuts just as a precaution but will definitely be faster removing them with the rattle gun. I have noticed in a lot of the south african tyre shops they don't use rattle guns it's usually the cross style tyre spanners and a torque wrench, this could be because of cost or caution from the tyre shops. Thanks again matt for the helpful information and advice 👍🏻 🤠

I spray a little WD-40 on most all bolts that i re-install if im in the mood. Sometimes i will use a small dab of anti sieze on certain bolts. Less is better.

i have always greased or oil my wheel studs. never had a wheel come off. however always try to keep it off the tapers. its the tapers and tensile stretch in ANY bolt or stud that stops it coming undone

@MadMatt4WD

10 ай бұрын

Correct. The other thing as in this case is not tightening the nuts. Lol

😂😂 yes it was funny mrs Mad Matt👍

While watching and listening to you Matt, I couldn't help looking at the slotted and drilled disks. Maybe you know a little something about why reducing the friction areawith slots and hole improves braking and doesn't wear the pads faster? Maybe a duo with you and JC?

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

I’ve done a few videos about how and why they work.

@BenMitro

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Oh well, I thought I was offering an interesting suggestion for a video - a little late with the bright ideas I see :)

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

@@BenMitro hey but it’s still a bright idea. Thanks mate

Hi Matt, I have been driving 4x4s for over 50 years and have always applied lubricant to the wheel studs. I have never had a failure. I have covered about one and a half million kilometers. I have made a video on this subject and teach it in the theory course I run.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Hi Ray. Thanks for the comment. Where could I watch your video please?

@raymackaway5320

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD Hi Matt, I will send you a link by Message to the video.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for a very detailed video. THeres lots of good solid info in there. Oh and a real nice 80 I can see you look after it very well.

@raymackaway5320

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD It's been a great vehicle. In the last fifty years, or so, I have only had two vehicles. First, 4x4 was an FJ55. It did about one million kilometers. The next was the 80 series. They both have given me great service.

I too lubricate the studs on my Ram 1500. Here's the problem. When I needed to have tire service at a local shop they WILL tighten per manufacturer torque specifications as they are required by law to do so here in the United States. They will not reduce the torque by 20%. That said, I have re-torque after so the studs are not left over tightened.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Great point. I don’t think the 20% over is a killer but re-torquing them is the right thing to do.

I don't think you mentioned that you backed the torque off for the lubricated thread in the previous video. Maybe I missed it. Thanks for mentioning the 80% factor.

@castlelowanna8626

Жыл бұрын

picked that up too!

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

No i didn’t I thought I explained why in this video. That was one of the main reasons I wanted to do this video.

@lowellcrabb151

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD you did a great job explaining.

One thing I like about my tyre supplier is that they always check the tension with a tension wrench. It is cheap insurance for them.

Sir i love this video💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖

if lube makes them come off how about connecting rod nuts in a motor oil is on them all the time. also up north new cars aren't coated to prevent rust but if you don't get it done or do it yourself it will rot to the ground. they don't put corrosion preventive on the brake pads but if in the north if you don't rust jacking will lock the pads watch South Main Auto

the taper/angle cut on the wheel nut also locks the wheel nut to the wheel as well, manufactures are building 100s to millions of cars if the can save a cent on a car is saves them thousands

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Bang on. Every cent counts

@KPHadventures

Жыл бұрын

That's it we just get our hands dirty and make them into what we want

As a young teen starting to do things on cars, I helped my brother go rescue our sister from a 10 degree F. wind- swept parking lot where we had to change a tire. The lugs were dry and rusty and one would NOT come off. I always remembered that day and always oiled up lug nuts. Then one day at a garage where my dad was getting a couple new tires the guy changing them came up to us and said " who is the complete dumb - ass that put oil on these threads ?" I spoke right up and said " I did " and he commenced in giving us a ten minute lecture on how that was the worst thing I could do and how my wheels would fall off and kill everybody. I told him to mind his own business and continued oiling them. I oil lugs all my car servicing life and never had any fall off unless I ripped the whole stud off or I forgot to tighten in the first place. I also almost never had to wrestle with rusted frozen lugs that won't come off ( at least not on my own car ) Like you said, when lugs are dry and you put a ton of force on them the threads start galling and wearing and rusting. I use motor oil or gear lube on threads. I don't use ' never sieze' as recently I tried some and my son and I found that sometimes it slides so good that you feel as you could tighten until you just rip the stud right out. It's TOO slick. Recently I had to change a wheel in a Walmart parking lot and fellow came out of the garage with a torque wrench wanting to tighten my lugs ( insurance issue as I was on their property ) and he also asked if I WANTED HIM TO PUT ANTI - SEIZE on the threads. I said " what ??? " it was at a similar store 50 previous that I was chewed out for putting oil on my threads.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the story. Oil is fine but I do prefer grease or never seize.

@michaelszczys8316

Жыл бұрын

Plus, having dry threads increases the possibility of putting TWISTING motion on the stud instead of just pulling. Extreme twisting due to the threads getting messed up may lead to twisting the stud right off or the rare but possible scenario of shearing the stud SPLINES rendering it impossible to remove wut

@michaelszczys8316

Жыл бұрын

With less than a grinder or cutting torch

I put those lug nuts back on using my 1,000 ft lb of torq impact gun. I just know how to use the tool and thus they go on tight and never break or strip. I dont really need to use a torq wrench unless im doing a cylinder head.

Old mechanic bloke said to me the only grease to use on wheel nuts is white grease lithium grease doesn’t interfere with anything have done that and never had a problem cheers 👍🍻🍺

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

That’s interesting

@rockbiterhd

Жыл бұрын

@@MadMatt4WD and that was at a bus company imagine losing a wheel on one of those mmm

I anti seize on all my rigs Helps with mud and dirt not getting in there saves the threads In theory you would have to torque the nut up more due to the grease because it’s allowing is to slip abit more before it gets to the torque you are chasing. On the cranes we only grease the head of the bolt to help it spine and the threads are dry

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

No less torque because it takes less force to stretch the bolt to the right length to provide the correct clamping force.

@ROCKRAT

Жыл бұрын

Yes your right I was thinking the wrong way

when you bring the car to the tire shop, always check if they tighten the nuts. it happens to me, i drove off, and few miles later i realised they forgot to tighten the nuts.

I also use a little nickel antisieze. To get an even "preload" across all the threads, you need lube.

I always lightly lube my lug nuts. Never had a problem for 40 years. I found that sheep Grease lasts for many years.

Loctite, grease, or anti-seize. Every fastener get one of the three. 50 years wrenching and never had anything come loose. The only problems I’ve ever had, was with dry fasteners.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that’s my experience too. Well said

I've put lube on my studs for 45 years, then cranked them down with a 4 way, never had a lugnut come off. I'll crank them down untill the pop. Its way over tourq specs, but its not enough to sheer the stud. If you love where it snows you'll learn really fast that antizees dosnt work really good, but you'll never have a problem getting lugs off becuse they rusted on. I've delt with rusted on nuts on a 64 impla ss the car weight is very heavyweight the factor bumper jacks suck and ive seen them fall. Thats why my dad said always put a wheel under the car, if it falls it will fall on the wheel and not you. With this ive dropped transmission changed u joints greesesd wheel berrings worked on muffler systems, but I recommend you dont relay on jacks use a jack stand. Seriously an o ring could blow on the floor jack and drop the car on the floor.

Ignore the trolls Matt, just block and move on! I hadn't considered the theory that lubing the nuts could increase clamping force and lead to more stretch (I'm similarly not too concerned). I live in an area that's pretty dry and doesn't use too much salt in the winter (Alberta, Canada), so haven't had too many issues with stuck nuts. I did break one once, though, after repeated use by the shop of the rattle gun. For folks that live where salt is used a lot in the winter, I think there would be another significant advantage in lubing for corrosion prevention.

@MadMatt4WD

Жыл бұрын

Thanks mate. I'm getting better at dealing with the trolls.

When you are talking about lubing the threads, you need to let people know that you need to only use extreme pressure lubricant on threads. Using oil or regular grease on threads will not properly lube the threads because the pressure between the male and female will make the lube migrate out of the contact area. Extreme pressure (anti-seize) lube is the only thing for threads. Oil, grease or silicone will help with corrosion.