After this video watch the follow-up Q&A video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/jIpo1qOSl7TVmbQ.html

Thank you for your videos Christiaan! I am a new adult beginner and after 5 months of lessons I just quit. My teacher actually said to me after I questioned her on my bow hold and how I hold my left hand, "If we aren't going to do it my way, we aren't going to do it at all." Every time I went to my lessons I was nervous and stressed trying to please her by doing things her way and her way only. I found you when I found your videos on the Russian bow hold. It changed everything for me. I enjoy playing once again and now it is easier for me. Also, I don't feel like my whole goal is to please her anymore. I like what you have to say in this video.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks for sharing your story Carol! I hope you'll continue on this path!

@tullochgorum6323

Жыл бұрын

The best teachers help each student find the right approach for their specific physique and temperament - but people of that calibre are rarely interested in teaching adult beginners. Many run-of-the-mill teachers simply pass on whatever they were taught dogmatically, without understanding how it needs to be adapted to specific students. My first and only teacher (a professional friend) insisted on a specific left-hand technique which I physically can't do because of an old injury. She advised me to give up the violin! After watching the Golden Age maestros with care, I came up with my own approach which works just fine...

@sherom

5 ай бұрын

I had the same experience, these teachers are discouraging students of all levels, forcing them to lose interest in music and their instrument. Many of them not all, are frustrating musicians who are not satisified with their own accomplishments, and then project their internal conflicts on to their students expecting from them nothing less than perfection. The result produces a nervous discouraged student, who will eventually quit.

I have been dealing with music teachers who is 90% focused on correcting the student's technique to match what they firmly believe is the only way. This is not something unique to violin teaching. Some classes I have been trying out myself, while most of it, is observed while sitting in on classes. Even tho the students are using perfectly valid techniques - just not the teacher's technique, the teacher is obsessed by correcting it. This attitude has no place in the modern world imho. Once, many years ago, I was trying out a class behind the drum kit. I know my way around a drum kit, but this place was about to hire a new teacher for those classes. I sat down, and he told me to play, so he could see what he had to work with. I didn't really get this, but when I had played for 10 seconds, I understood where he was going. And it shocked me. He started to tell me things like - do not hold the drumsticks that way - here's how you hold them. Do not strike the hihat like that, do it like this - and the list went on. I had been playing drums for many years, and basically told him that with his techniques, many things are either impossible to play, or are incredibly awkward and will lead to injuries. The guy was told to leave, but I am 100% certain that he never understood what his problem was, and probably still teaches like that (if he can get teaching jobs at all...). Similar I have seen with many other instruments being taught... One thing is giving advice, but if you are correcting experienced musicians' technique, you better be prepared to answer exactly why you do it. Most of the times, their answers will be either blank, or unacceptable. I love your attitude towards this - I don't think I have ever encountered a person with a high level training with these good and healthy attitudes.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@tullochgorum6323

3 жыл бұрын

The top teachers focus on helping students find the technique that best fits their physique and temperament. The average teacher simply imposes whatever their teacher taught them, whether it suits the student or not, because that's all they know.

@LifeOnHoth

3 жыл бұрын

@@tullochgorum6323 correct.

Ook! [I lost all pain from playing violin when i switched to cello.]

“A way of playing that is stress free” I feel relieved just from hearing those words. It might make me pick up violin back more seriously

Thanks for sharing your techniques and rationale for using them. I would love to attend a workshop someday, but I just found out about your PNW conference yesterday. Please create videos about your exercise system for improvisation. I'm very excited about getting started! Mahalo! 🌺

Excellent. Many thanks Christiaan.

Thank you so much! I started playing the violin when I was four and suffered from a serious shoulder injury when i was 16, probably from overuse. I am now 26 and still struggle to play for long periods of time without pain. I just stumbled on your video channel and it's been so helpful. thank you for all your vids.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome Rosie, nice to hear my video is helpful!

I just turned 47 and have a construction background. I started playing in 2011 and my hands use to fall asleep. I'm finally starting to sound ok. I can't wait to go over your stuff. I have pain from over doing it on bass, guitar, banjo and violin. I do get sore joints but they go away the next day and I usually make progress

Very refreshing to hear this viewpoint: pain-free for the long haul. I was first a violinist, and I remember the pain in my neck from holding the instrument with just my chin (and shoulder-with-shoulderrest).

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

+Paul Gibby Thanks Paul!

Thanks Christian . Very refreshing to hear this approach . I tottaly agree and have found your videos very helpful . I sometimes refer my fiddle students to them .It may be worth adding Grappelli used Franco belgianish bow hold (in a nice relaxed way) but no shoulder rest . .....of course that is not to say one bow hold is better than the other either just that either needs to be done without tension

Great advice. My osteopath has had violin playing patients with grossly swollen wrists. I play sax (and work on a computer) and had a problem with RSI. I'm now careful to have my wrists fairly straight. I do stretches and wrist curls with dumb bells before I play (to warm up as well as strengthen the muscles and improve the blood supply), and I stretch again after. I removed the thumb hook from my tenor and now my right hand is relaxed and not strained. Only thing is my right thumb has made a green spot on the saxophone, but my teacher calls it the green badge of intense practice ;). A book called "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and other repetitive strain injuries" by Sharon Butler is a good source of appropriate stretches.

Natural player, beautiful tone, old fashion style, this kind of playing is a dying art. !!!!!

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

I am in my 60's and just starting to learn violin. Your videos have been very helpful, especially the one on your bow hold. I have some stiffness and arthritis in my hands and the Franco-Belgian bow hold is not comfortable, plus I cannot do it well. I am experimenting with your Russian Bow hold and finding it much more comfortable. Someone very young can expect to increase strength and agility in their hands and fingers as time goes on, but that will not happen for me. I am so glad I watched your videos. Thanks!

As a self-taught adult beginner suffering from fibromyalgia, I thank you very much for this.

@ferexx

3 жыл бұрын

u got fibro from violin? i hope not. anyways, hope u recover

Great points! I totally get it! I played college tennis for a few years and had bad tennis elbow. When I first started playing violin my tennis elbow came back. I started off playing lots of old time fiddle tunes and had a ton of tension in my right arm. I’m still working on loosening up but I’ve come a long way haha

When I was playing violin back in school I remember being very stressed out basically of the things you mentioned in the video. I lost passion for playing very fast...

Hi! Where can I buy the music sheet of your improvisation of Minor Swing? Greetings from Chile! 🇨🇱

I am 68 and learning for decades and will be trying to play without shoulder rest . I am burned out on the pain

I think your ideas are very refreshing. I am 56 years old and became interested learning the violin 2 years ago. Another way of teaching that is a problem that I have encountered is teachers only teach children and do not know how to teach adults. My left thumb would hurt when trying to put my fingers down on the fingerboard. One teacher actually told me to see a physical therapist. When I started experimenting with my violin hold, playing without a shoulder rest, experimenting with my bow hold, I could play pain free. Doing things like this never occurs to most teachers, because they are taught that their is only one way to hold the bow, every body must use a shoulder rest, all their students must hold the violin the same way, etc. rather than adapting their teaching methods, especially for the adult student, so the student can play comfortably and pain free. All of these ideas have come together for me recently, and this video has reinforced that. Thanks.

@cadeyrndragheim22

4 жыл бұрын

any other tips you have on playing pain free? i'm just 28 years old, but my right shoulder is rather problematic so can't really use his russian bow hold, since it makes my shoulder quite elevated compared to the franco-belgian hold which is more comfortable to me.

Your vibrato is absolutely gorgeous, I am extremely jealous.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

+William Knox Thanks, I worked hard on that. I'm sure you can do it too, check out my video on vibrato!

I play a heavier 16" viola and I have prominent collar bones and sloping shoulders. I can't even let my Viola touch that bone without instant pain and just a creepy feeling! I can't foresee ever being able to have nothing between my viola and my shoulder area for this reason

@user-kk5qe9fj2l

4 жыл бұрын

i know exactly what you are talking about. I had that too... just take some time to find the most comfortable spot and get over it... totally worth it and it goes way very fast.

i started playing when i was 4. My first teacher was the worst... i had problems with holding the bow right. The hair was always turned away from me. To make me keep it right, i had to do one side in a (absolutly hated) math exercise book as punishment for every failing... That turned out in a hate of math and violin playing... ...jeyy 👍🏻... I had different teachers after her, some good some bad, the last one great till i was 15. I stopped playing cause i got to some difficult times in my teens. since I'm 17 I'm chronically mentally ill with depressions and many other annoying stuff. now I'm 26 and i want to try getting back into playing on my own.

I started without a shoulder rest but it hurts my collar bone so much it was uncomfortable so I had to use a shoulder rest. I believe it's different for others.

@tullochgorum6323

Жыл бұрын

The alternative is to use a sponge or some other thin and flexible padding to protect your collar bone - without having to resort to the inflexible scaffolding of a conventional shoulder rest.

Thanks Christian . I live in Cambridge England. Do you know of anyone I could contact to teach this style in the UK Also do you have any upcoming workshops in the UK I like to play without a shoulder rest as a folk fiddler and am looking to improve my technique , with regard to jazz, gypsies, classical. I have studied all the available KZread material of the great 20th century violinists but cannot seem to find any teacher or musician who knows what I am aiming at Shoulder rest has always been a big no for me because of neck pain

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Robin, I'll be in the UK in August and in March (2019). Watch my website and/or KZread videos to get exact details soon!

I think it is worth noting that the sensitivity to violin related pain is in part genetic. Some people develop carpal tunnel syndrome quickly and others not at all. Meaning whatever example you quote may or may not be related to the specifics of anyone's technique. The second point is this: This stuff is not binary. You can mix and match. You can use a shoulder rest without clamping the fiddle between chin and shoulder like in a vise. I for example still use my left hand to hold the fiddle. Only I have my chin to facilitate shifts. The third point: these decisions change depending on the player's anatomy. Hilary Hahn with her extremely long and slender neck would be a fool to try and play without a shoulder rest. Fourth: To avoid pain one has to avoid "locking you joints" as you put it. One has to avoid to have any muscles tense at all times while playing. But one also has to be lucky to be sufficiently resistant to repetitive stress injury. Also not practicing too much helps obviously. One does that by always being fully concentrated on what one is doing while practicing, Avoid "practicing" technical stuff with only half your mind on it. It won't work well and it will waste practice time.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your perspective!

I liked and subscribed it

Hello and thanks a lot for you videos, very inspiring. I have changed since 2 years with no shoulder rest. I think my intonation has improved, i feel better the shifting in the left hand and also my right hand angle, position and weight on the instrument changed, reflected to the sound. I keep experimenting with the angle in both left and right hand but the only problem i have is my long neck which sometimes makes the violin not so stable. What would you suggest? Thanks again.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Just lift your violin up higer with your left arm. Also make sure you are resting the fiddle exactly on your collarbone and not somewhere else!

I just noticed, my violin professor has pretty much the same principle as you and he is playing at the highest lvl even though he is well above 70.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

Cool!

THANKS

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Bhardvaj!

Christiaan ! Love hearing your words! I did a huge work with my classical experience, now - struggling with the injury in left arm ( your movie: 10:19) I started to learn how to improvise, even went for studies:) and always thinking about relaxasion which is the hardest task ever ! Espescially during long rehearsals, gigs, teaching kids... ( jocking) during basically everything. I really apprieciated your gypsy tips! Wishing all the best from Poland! ( soundcloud.com/hot20strings )

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Holding up the violin with left arm sounds ideal but the violin still feels slippery and slides on my collarbone. This is frustrating.

@ChristopherBrooks_kenor

3 жыл бұрын

us a non-slip pad, such as router pad or natural rubber.

Yes! The shoulder rest is the two-handed backhand of fiddle playing :-) Quick results for beginners, but ultimately limits/determines the way you move. Christiaan, check out Abram Shtern on youtube -- not quite the same bow hold as yours, but incredibly free playing.

In terms of the examples you give, it's worth noting that Milstein played into old age, while Vengerov has pretty much retired from concert playing. Many of the restless/Russian Hold players played at a high level into their 80s or 90s. I think the Milstein approach is safer.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, you bring up a great point. I actually personally know of multiple professional players who are in too much pain to play for the length of time they're used to and at the level they're used to. I believe that the culture of using too much force while playing the violin is the main cause of this!

@tullochgorum6323

Жыл бұрын

@@ChristiaanvanHemert I have an old friend who was a viola player and trained at the Guildhall with du Pre. A few years into her career she sustained a serious neck/shoulder injury which forced her retirement. It causes her pain to this day. I also have an old classmate who has become a distinguished professor of Baroque violin, teaching at some of the top Conservatoires in Europe. He says that the great majority of his brilliant young students come to him with crippling tension in their playing. But because he mainly teaches interpretation and not technique, there is little he can do to help them. He sees little evidence that their technical teachers know how to address their student's difficulties. So this is a serious issue and much neglected in most music programmes, from tiny tots to elite schools.

NO PAIN IS GAIN!

I LOVE your violin videos - I think you're correct on many things. Wish I could have attended that workshop; very much interested in learning your techniques - any chance you might create a course on Udemy or something like that? I'm really looking forward to future violin videos!

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks MadBad, I'll think about that. But also know that when I hit the 10.000 subscriber mark I will start producing violin videos again!

@madbadtrad7746

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Christiaan, I have no doubt you'll get there; I've forwarded your channel to friends. I cannot believe the efficiency and relaxation I feel when not using a shoulder rest. It was like take off crutches and simply walking naturally! :) The only thing I find a bit tricky (I've workout out shifting and vibrato etc.) is, oddly enough, tuning: I used to hold the violin up with my chin/jaw (against the shoulder rest) and reach around to get to the fine tuner, etc. It was easy to adjust the pegs too. Now, not so much. Any advice?

I hate the Franco Belgium bow hold. Fact is, most of my students prefer using a Russian bow hold because it's more comfortable for them. Very few like the Franco Belgium.

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

I prefer Russian too but there are certainly great players in both schools!

I'm a guitarist and injured my fretting hand about four years ago. I was playing 12-15 hours per day and one day I felt a snap in my third finger after I bent a string up a whole step. And that was it. I haven't been able to play more than 10-15 minutes and then comes pain...lots of it...and doesn't go away for days or even weeks. I wish I had learned the Alexander Technique when I was a child. It won't help me in my situation at this point, but it may have prevented my career-ending injury. Body awareness is so important. Your comment about competition in music is so true. I think alot of the many hours I spent practicing were based on a faulty 'I need to be better than the competition' thought process. Such a terrible way to think about an activity that started out as an enjoyable hobby and has ended in non-stop pain (even when not playing). Thanks for this important video!

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you, very sorry for the pain you're experiencing.

@fattymcfatterson3651

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the reply.

@LifeOnHoth

5 жыл бұрын

you gotta take care of yourself when handling an instrument yes. Nothing worse than injuries that keep you away from a passion like music. But with all due respect - I really feel the need to point this out - Playing 12-15 hours a day...? why?

@McMinnManiac

5 жыл бұрын

I switched to 8 gauge and find them to hit the same pitch with less tension , they are thinner , yet amp sound or active pick ups can compensate

@McMinnManiac

5 жыл бұрын

I love this modern teaching , so needed in our era .

You are so right ! That's my idea - just like walking! My teachers thought I was crazy when I tried to discuss my ideas (the same as yours!). I always reject anything which causes tension. I'm glad you mentioned vibrato - I find that people have a weird concept of what vibrato is - they seem to think that the amplitude of the vibrato is so large that it is kilometres wide! Of course not - but they play that way and introduce a tight, clamping down of the jaw on the chinrest and tight arms locked to MAKE it happen - if you get rid of that misconception, you have to find a way to do a healthy musical vibrato born out of the ease of playing without tension. I find that it is best to do this without shoulder rests - and also without chin rests! I am a 45 year old beginner (1 year) - and I'm in Montreal (glad you mentioned that in your video). I have had 4 teachers in the last year - most lasted a couple weeks to a couple months and the last I was with for 30 lessons over 8 months. Only one wanted a shoulder rest - I quit going to him after a couple lessons. The next was a Rumanian classically trained violinist who specializes now in jass and his native Gypsy music (Carmen Piculeata - a great violinist - check him out - he uses no shoulder rest and welcomes students who don't want to use one such as me!). Then my most recent teacher, a virtuoso soloist, uses a massive sponge, which I reject too - he is offended that I don't share his enthusiasm for the sponge. I don't care - I am now on my own again and enjoying shifting and vibrato without rests (shoulder or chin!). Shawn Christopher White, Montreal

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

+Shawn Christopher White Great story, Shawn!

Damn....Your fingers r huge.

Well, like many other things, music has always been about elitism. I always felt out of place when hanging out with other musicians when I was a kid. They always seem to be members of some 'church' if you know what I mean, thriving on dogmatic notions. I personally have never understood the point of telling everybody there is only ONE way to play an instrument, especially since everybody has a different body.

Hey Christiaan, I'm loving all your violin and guitar videos. Set up some kind of account and I'll gladly send you a few bucks for all this free stuff!

@ChristiaanvanHemert

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much. I might do that in the future. For now though, I just want to get to 10000 subs. I hope I'll make that!

@madbadtrad7746

6 жыл бұрын

Just joined, I'd gladly send you a few too.

If you claim No Pain, why do you have a violin neck hickey bruise? Bla bla bla. Then teach something!

You’re not even holding the violin right

@ChristiaanvanHemert

5 жыл бұрын

😎

Instead of pressing down with my chin I learned to let my neck/chin skin "stick" to the chin rest while using a shoulder rest so I can relax my neck and keep my head level with my shoulders.