Hey Friends! I've failed to provide conclusive answers to some of the questions in this comment section, as I prematurely cut my testing short after realizing that the cargo harbor was broken. Frankly, I didn't expect this video to become as popular, hence I decided to still publish my half-conclusive findings on a "make your own conclusion" basis. The second video will feature an experiment in which there is no road connection between any of the two zones, which should lead to a more conclusive answer to questions concerning the "teleportation" of resources between industry and commercial zones! Apologies for the shortcoming on my end. You can expect part 2. within the next 48 hours of this comment.

@Everything_unknown

8 ай бұрын

The most likely explanation by a long shot is some bugs are not fixed not they faked the simulation.

@GrymmsPlace

8 ай бұрын

I would be interested to know what would happen if all connections to outside cities are broken? Would any of that 'force' everything to happen inside the 'simulation'? (or not?) Am guessing a ton of cosmetic jiggery-pokery is being done to make a hugely big simulator simulate being a simulator without making the above average computer from exploding. The new road/transport mechanics do look very nice though.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey! I've investigated this scenario thoroughly in Part 2. - Admittedly, I focused more on isolating individual zones. e.g., only industry, only commercial, or both - rather than to sever every connection to the outside for the whole town, and thus left the question of whether residential areas would collapse without access to services provided by the region open for a potential part 3. - Given that parts of the cargo system aren't yet fixed.

@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798

8 ай бұрын

so your confused that industry sends vans with good to city but trucks leave city to import goods to your hub and that makes it fake? kek

This is a small channel, but between videos like this and your asset overview series, you have one of the most useful and helpful channels for CS2 on all of youtube

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

I sincerely appreciate you saying that. I am still somewhat baffled by the warm reception. It means a lot. I'll always try to produce content that at least aims to provide some sort of tangible value. I can't promise to always hit the mark, but I'll certainly keep trying. Any sort of feedback only helps me to provide more value, so while this feedback of yours might be positive, I'm counting on hearing your negative feedback where applicable. ✌️

the simulation is simulated. 😱🤯💀

As far as cargo ships and trains, exporting is confirmed to be bugged - they should export but never do.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for pointing that out! ✌️

@MrNisky

8 ай бұрын

My trains do exports 🤔🤔

@Kyoshi267

8 ай бұрын

will they fix it?

@Kyoshi267

8 ай бұрын

really ? how?@@MrNisky

@koreanthund3r273

8 ай бұрын

my trains aslo do, not that much though around 200tons average

wow, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for after seeing those reviews. I don't think I need an ultra- deep sim but I did need to actually see how in depth it went to and how it looked/felt like in-game. It's all illusions at the end of the day, just a matter of how convincing they are. Thanks so much for the deep dive! Looking forward to your next video and really appreciated your thoughts/responses in the comments. Great work.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for the kind reception! It's really more of a 'vlog' of me proposing questions and trying to find an answer to them than any sort of conclusive presentation of results, thus, I'm all the happier to hear that it helped you form your own opinion regarding whether the simulation is deep enough for you to enjoy! Cheers! ❤️

My fave thing ever is the reviewer being like "i tried to like it but i cant this game sucks" and then playing 60 more hours

Wow this is very detailed! Good job! That means the Econ isn’t totally faked 😂

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words! Exactly, it isn't completely made out of thin air and except for the cargo habor not exporting, most simplifications seem to be for gameplay reasons. E.g. goods requested by stores being instantly delivered from industry buildings, rather than to rely on the dispatched vehicle to pick the item up physically. Therefore, the claims of "there is no simulation of producing goods" ; "transporting them to your shops" ; "cims buying those goods" didn't hold true. - Admittedly, the latter is somewhat true in the sense that there is no actual stock of items in stores, at least, none we can see. And thus, we don't know if stores request goods at random or if they simply have an actual stock of items invisible to us as players. There are still a handful of things to explore and investigate in the next episode. - E.g. figuring out if the exporting stays broken by railroad / air cargo. If cotton and other specialized industries' goods get delivered to zoned industries, and, of course, whether residential zones use timber and stone from specialized industries for building maintenance.

You are gold, if you are focused on YT, its hectic I know if you have a full time job already. If you are at it, you shall succeed. Good Luck. Subbed

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

You're too kind. Thank you so much for the warm reception. ✌️

At 7:00, that truck was owned by the cargo harbor. So it was delivering textiles stored at the harbour to the Consumer Apparel warehouse. I think at this point, according to Colossal Order's post on the forums, the bug with cargo harbours and cargo train terminals is that they're only interacting with zoned warehouses.

Thank you for these sim tests. This really helps to understand the game more. 10:30 I theorize that the building stocks get deducted after the delivery is complete to offset things such as traffic accidents or vehicle despawning due to long commutes

My question is - great experiment btw, how does education affect output of industry and retail? When the trucks left and came back to the region, the first thing I wondered to myself was, what's not being produced locally, what demand is outside the local region, what supplies are imports and exports? Then I had realised that there are no schools and everyone is uneducated. So I got to wondering, if higher education citizens would affect the local manufacturing sector and would that change the demand on retail or even change imports and exports over time. It would be very interesting to see the same setup, exactly as you have it laid out; but with schools. The sim would have to run longer, obviously, but that's where my brain went. Nice job. I really enjoyed this. Edit: Subbed and dinged because you focused on economy. I like Macro economy stuff in the real world and your brief microscopic look at this scale gave me some ideas and this is what I needed to pull the trigger and pick the game up. I've procrastinated long enough and this is the level of detail I am interested in. I have my own ideations on city building that I have yet to see a YT'r do, so I might as well go off and do my own thing; one street, building and industry at a time. If the economy is going to be anything nearly comparable to real world economies with job, production, trade surplus and deficits, supply, demand, etc... this is where I want to be.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! On the topic of simulation, it is safe to say that even without (yet) having the ability to look behind the scenes, a lot of the simulations seem to be somewhat detached from one another and simplified. It's certainly an improvement over C:S1 but still dwarfed by the complexity of a game such as Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic. I wouldn't be surprised if, later down the line, with an industries DLC, there is some optional complexity to add to the game, but given how Paradox and CO strive to retain their user base from C:S1, it is unlikely to imagine any sort of ruthlessly realistic simulation without the use of mods. That said, if you ever start realizing your own vision of an economy centric city / region in C:S2, make sure to throw me a hint to check it out!✌️

I think that imports are delivered to the cargo harbour for storage. At 6.32, you can see trucks leaving the cargo harbour going into the industrial district.

I don't think the orders from the retail are happening instantaneously in the background. I think the industry building removes the order from it's inventory when the order is placed then moves it to a "waiting for pickup" state, just like it would happen in real life. You can test this by writing down the industrial building storage, calculate the difference when it goes down. When a van arrives verify that it is carrying that difference. Check the van's destination and what it's storage amount is before and after the van makes its delivery. If it changes by that amount you know the goods are being delivered as it should.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

It's certainly a fair assumption to make! ✌️In the next episode, I will actually remove physical road connections between the two zones, as that should give a very clear answer to the question. I find it noteworthy that the delivery between industry zones is always physical, with the items only being deducted from the inventory at the point of arrival, whereas with commercial zones interacting with industry zones, the deduction happens instantaneously, considering that in both cases the transaction is B2B. But I'll definitely take a more thorough look at this in the next episode! Thank you for sharing your observations and theories! I was very much sharing my thoughts in the moment and have since also had some time to contemplate the matter further.

"If all 1,000,000 of my Cims aren't 100% sentient with 100% realistic, interconnected human lives, and if they don't simulate every atom of my city, then the game sucks!"

I’m your 118th subscriber. Very good video. Looking forward to your future videos

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for the kind words! Please also let me know if you happen to dislike a video. I'm still very much learning this on the go and any feedback is greatly appreciated! ✌️❤️

This is not fake. This game have a very great potential but ir needs multiple bug fixes at this point.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Exactly what I'm thinking! It might not be the next workers & resources: soviet republic, or Transport Fever, but it certainly got potential! ❤️

i dont think export import is broken, its just my town didnot produce enough surplus to export. sometimes i click at train coming to my cargo station and wait, the cargo to be delivered to my station weight more than 1000t, some times the export sometimes metal, sometimes steel, sometimes convenience food, only one kind never 2 of 3 or 3 of 3. and the weight only around 10t more less. my conclusion was my city did not produce enough surplus to export even tho my metal production surplus is more than 200t, that is because my cargo station only have 7kt of cargo while targeted cities always have 60kt of cargo, i think the should have make the cargo from another cities to be at a reasonable amount. growing as my city grows.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

That's certainly a possible reason for it not working! Thank you for sharing your hypothesis!

C:S2 a very sad state. I would have much rather waited for a complete game

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Here's to hope that paradox will listen to its customers, or CO cares enough about its playerbase to stand up to paradox. - Assuming that it was indeed paradox forcing this game's release.

That random tornado tho 😂😂

1st those empty trucks says returning, meaning they are from the outside connection, 2nd those fully loaded trucks going to the harbor says importing, I guess the harbor is now the drop off point for imports and from there, the truck harbor will distribute the goods? which my 3rd point, the truck that pass 6:56 says exporting and the owner is the harbor. Base on the observation, importing is working as intended and goods moving around the city. The only problem is exporting? I haven't see any exporting going on from our city to other city. Nice video btw thanks.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

You are correct. Importing seems to indeed be working as intended! ✌️ I've already finished part 2 of the series, which will go live in 40 hours and feature a lot more experimenting in regards to the teleportation of goods, whether industry / commercial can function without any roads at all and a deeper diver into how taxation / locally produced goods impact the profitability of businesses.

I was lacking some resources so i started producing them and nothing changed in my balance at all...

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Interesting! I've taken a closer look on pecialized industry production affecting supply and demand in part 2 of this video, which will go live in 22 hours.

Or the developers have made adjustments for performance issues while they fix this

Hey, the storage might be actually "produce available for purchase" and when a store buys it - it becomes reserved for the store thus not showing in storage anymore. It just waits for pickup and delivery.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

That's a good theory as well! I suppose until we have mod support to look behind the scenes, it'll be hard to know which is the actual case, but frankly, personally, I think either theory wouldn't take too much away from the simulation, but that is obviously a conclusion everyone has to make for themselves.

@ookamikage6658

8 ай бұрын

If that's how it's working in game, that's kind of impressive because that's kind of how it works IRL too. I work in a warehouse and our computer system will show x amount of product. When we pick something for the customer, it gets scanned, staged and then shipped, but while it's staged, it doesn't show in our system anymore. So like I said, if that's how it work in game, ngl, that's pretty good on their part.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Sadly, the investigation I've done in the 2. Video doesn't strengthen that hypothesis, but until we have mods capable of showing us the underlying database tables, we can really only make educated guesses. Fingers crossed that CO didn't take the easy way out, like they did with the Plazas and Promenades teleporting around. ✌@@ookamikage6658

It didn't look like anyone was going to work in your industry area via either road. Sure you showed one going to work at the fire station, but didn't seem like much traffic going from residential to industry. I may have just missed it, but can you confirm if people are actually using your roads to go to work to industry?

That instant deliveries are terrible. You can cut all the streets and it still delivers but without the "animation". And this is by design as a developer explained. This is a fail safe guard. And it's terrible. There is a reason why some of the most active threads in the paradox forum are about this issue. People don't want fail safe guards like this where you don't need streets or citizens at all to have a working city. You can't fail. Traffic has no impact. And it's not optional at this point. You, right now, basically just have a city painter. Yes there is a simulation going on. But it's designed in a way that no matter what you do, the city is thriving. I also wonder when we finally will get a nodding platform to eventually have Modders fix this crap. I predict not before Christmas or release of the console version. Even the patches that fix some of the totally broken services will probably take another several weeks. I really wish I would've not pre ordered it. And refund is not possible anymore. I'm so extremely disappointed by CO.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

That's a fair point. 🙌 I wouldn't be surprised if it is partially due to paradox not wanting to alienate the casual player base, considering how non-existent simulation / complexity were in C:S1. Changing C:S2 into a full-on Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic might've made the game too inaccessible to the core player base. One can only assume. What I personally care the most about is having core concepts in place for modders to tap into. As no mod was capable of fixing C:S1's simplistic simulation. So as long as the foundation behind the scenes allows for modders to implement more complex and realistic simulations, it might not have been the worst compromise to provide a baseline that is still a step-up from C:S1 but allows for those who want it, to get their Transport Fever 2 / W&R'esque simulation. Obviously, this is just wishful thinking on my part, as it will remain to be seen, but if 2-3 years down the line that ends up being the state of the game, I wouldn't personally be disappointed. Not that any of this excuses the sometimes rather misleading marketing approach. ✌️

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

@@EVO_CS "hanging C:S2 into a full-on Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic might've made the game too inaccessible to the core player base. " That's not the point. The point is that you can't fail a city because of fail safe systems that makes everything work even without roads and citizens. And that it is not even an option. I have no problem with a "god mode" where nothing can fail if that would be optional. Same as they put "unlimited money" as an option or "everything unlocked" as an option. Simulating everything just to override that same simulation and therefore nullifying it makes no sense. If that is the case, why advertising it with "better simulation". Since CS1 had a much more simplistic simulation going on and was still way more competitive/challenging, I'd like to have less simulation then please. I did not buy this game to play a city painter. I bought it as it was advertised to be more complex, more challenging, more adjustable - not less. What we currently have is the opposite from what they have advertised. Plus no Mods, plus game breaking bugs and tons of smaller bugs even after 3 weeks. Only 1 of the 3-4 most critical game breaking bugs have been fixed so far. And not a hint of when we can expect the modding platform. It can take months and years to come. I personally expect it not to come before the release on console, which at the current state will take at least 6 months and more.

Wasn’t there something in cities skylines 1 where when some cims couldn’t complete there journeys within X time they’d just “teleport” to the destination? Could be something similar to that

We don't know for sure that the commercial building gets the resources instantly. Another possibility is that the goods get marked as "reserved" within the industrial building, and disappear from the UI total, but are still tracked in the building data behind the scenes. That might be to prevent conflicting requests (10 vans from different sources all show up to collect the same 4 tons of goods, but there's only 4 tons available, so the first one there wins and the other 9 fail). We'd need to be able to see the commercial stock to know for sure.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Absolutely! I've tried my best to incorporate as many hypotheticals and other markers to phrase assumptions with. But as you rightfully point out, without the tools at hand to look at what's going on behind the scenes, we can only form hypotheses. ✌️

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

They get it instantly. It's by design. Same with having citizens working in industry when you never have an outside connection. There will be placeholder agents. It's a fail safe system as the devs confirmed. It is as he said it in the video. The transaction is instantly and the animation is just that - an animation.

@JoeTheis

8 ай бұрын

Can you point me to where the devs said this (not just that it may happen *sometimes* as a failsafe, but that it happens in *all* cases by design)? I'm still not convinced by the evidence I'm seeing, but I'm happy to admit that I'm incorrect with some additional evidence.

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

@@JoeTheis bug report section in the forum. Thread name: City with 0 Population still has Workers + Wrong information given in UI It's there somewhere in 3rd page, here is what she wrote: "Hi everyone. I've updated the status of this to "In Review" as we are currently investigating the reports we have been receiving. The game has some failsafe options built-in to ensure a city doesn't collapse entirely if your city faces a lot of traffic congestion, which likely explains some of what's happening when you disconnect the city from the outside. We'll have a look to ensure everything is indeed working as designed and consider any improvements that may be possible. This will likely take some time, so we may not have an update for you for a while. Please also note that the simulation in Cities: Skylines II has a lot more moving parts than its predecessor, which means the experiments that worked well in Cities: Skylines to determine issues likely won't give as reliable results. The game tries to adjust and keep the city functional, which is intended. The deeper economic simulation has always been intended to be flexible so you aren't forced to dive deep into it if that's not the kind of gameplay you enjoy."

in the official paradox forums the defs confirmed that the game is running in a kind of failsafe mode so the whole economy isnt realy simulatet the post on steam is right. And the Trafic has no impackt at all the whole game is just an tool to build good looking citys.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! The part about traffic not having an impact isn't quite accurate as my findings in Part 2 of the series show. There are a few areas impacted when comparing a zone with severed connections, to one connected to the rest of the city. E.g. industry and commercial building average profitability. Likewise, the reviewer's claim regarding incineration plants not interacting with landfills also doesn't hold true, as can be seen in today's "How Broken Is Garbage?" episode.

Probably not fake just really buggy right now. And the whole export feature don't work and they still didn't patch with the latest 1.0.13 so it also affects it.

@SineN0mine3

8 ай бұрын

Works for me

10:25 they dont get immidietly delivered. they are owned by the company which means its not in stock but the company doesnt receive goods, just waits for the transport. If that delivery didnt happen (vehicle crashed or something), it takes too long or runs out of stock before the delivery it would complain that it doesnt have enough goods to sell. I think outside connections and commercial deliveries dont work in the same way. that is my theory idk if you proof it wrong later in the video or have proofed it wrong earlier tho

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey! Thank you for voicing your theory. I actually investigated this further in part 2 by getting completely rid of any street connection between commercial and industry. The video will drop in 39 hours!

I agree the Industry areas are still bugged out and not working and the Cargo systems don't work correctly still

So does this mean that if you are at the scale of grid locked traffic (Or poor management) that commercial buildings will still be able to "take" good from the industries and sell them even if the van is not able to make the journey in a timely fashion. Are the commercial buildings able to keep sending out vans each time even if vans dont return. In regards to the delivery animation as you call it.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

I've failed to answer that particular question in this video, as I prematurely cut my testing short after realizing that the cargo harbor was broken. Frankly, I didn't expect this video to become as popular, hence I decided to still publish my half-conclusive findings on a "make your own conclusion" basis. But the second video will feature an experiment in which there is no road connection between any of the two zones, which should lead to a more conclusive answer to that question! Apologies for the shortcoming on my end. You can expect part 2. within the next 48 hours.

Hi evo , new sub here, how do you make your game run at 60 fps ? What specs do you have

@EVO_CS

7 ай бұрын

Hey! My settings are basically the medium preset, Anti Aliasing is set to TAA, clouds, motion blur Ambient Occulusien etc is off. Shadows and reflection set to medium. CPU: R7 7700x GPU: 7900XT RAM: 64GB 6400MHz

@trashatgames

7 ай бұрын

@@EVO_CS thx for the fast response ❤

The traffic simulation is broken, so they made goods simulate inside the game not showing outside where players can see.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

That's a possible scenario!

The whole game is bugged. Colossal Order should be really embarrassed. We have an un-optimised game, half the things don’t work, education,garbage, exporting, commercial areas. It’s a disgrace. They must be desperate for money.

I didn't clicked play yet: My guess from what i read so far: it is a deep simulation but parts of it are deactivated because of many bugs. Which is still bad, but at least not a long term issue for the game. Let's see how close i am.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Spoiler: You're not too far off. While I can't speak for systems actually being disabled, the simulation certainly isn't as terribly shallow as some people make it out to be. - At least, compared to C:S1.

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

​​@@EVO_CSwhat people complain - after a lot of testing what is "wrong" with the simulation (=not really wrong but the fail safe system is literally simulating everything even without any roads connected, as confirmed by A developer ). This is to prevent the city or anything with it can't fail in any way. Either because it's so extremely bugged or they activated this "very easy god mode" on purpose and forgot or had no time to add a "hard mode" where you actually get challenged. Thats the current status of the complaints in the forum.

@artavenuebln

8 ай бұрын

@EVO_CS what @@Duke49th is saying!

did you see the fu.$^# tornado?

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Isn't it just ... adorable? 🥲

the cake is a lie

My right ear cant handle your voice. You have like a stereo off balance or something. Its like 75% more volume on the right ear.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

I just checked the audio file. You are very much correct. For some reason some of the compression was only applied to the left channel, rendering the right one effectively ever so slightly louder. Will be solved in subsequent uploads. Thank you very much for pointing that out. ❤️✌️

This game is so disepointing. Regret i bought it.

What is it all a lie ? How can I sleep?

Did I miss something? Do people expect Cities to be a challenging, hard-core simulation like Workers and Resources? I was always seeing C:S as a casual city builder that allows (hopefully) great detailing and freedom of sandbox experience.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

If I had to guess why so many reviews took such great offense at the simulation, I'd say that it had to do with some of the marketing phrasing, which led people to believe there was more depth to the simulation. Ultimately, from this little experiment, I can confidently say that the simulation isn't as shallow as a lot of reviews claim it to be. I suppose with a few updates, the export being fixed, and perhaps an eventual industry DLC, the game could strike a nice middle ground between offering some more complexity than C:S1, while also still being very much about casually building a city. Either way, thank you for dropping by to share your thoughts! ❤️

@BlissfulDreamSounds

8 ай бұрын

Now that is a game that makes it hard to manage, a great game though

@kraizerxthesimp46

8 ай бұрын

I cant imagine the horror doing the logistic management as if irl wasnt even complicated enough

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

Lol. Yes you missed something. There are entire channels build around challenges like "Biffa plays Indie Games" who started his channel basically fixing traffic - which in cs1 was actually necessary. Which is no longer necessary. In fact roads are no longer necessary - that's how easy it is now.

@Duke49th

8 ай бұрын

​@@EVO_CSthe problem are the fail safe guards. It took bug reports and tons of negative reviews and complaints for the devs to confirm them. Before that we all thought (with testing) that the simulation is fake. Just remove any outside connection and you will see what I mean.

LOL guy doesn't understand the meaning of SIMULATION. Yes of course the simulation is fake. That is what a simulation is.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

😂

Cs 1 was better...

Unfortunate the amount of shilling for Paradox in this video and comment section. But what can I expect from a KZreadr with the game's name in their username. The game is a *massive* disappointment. And less said about the performance the better. CS 2 is not worth it. Just move on.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey! I like to think that I've been fairly objective in my investigation, but you're obviously entitled to your own evaluation of that. Frankly, a lot of my reddit posts have been rather critical and concerned about, for example, the amount of tris in cim models, yet I am no stranger to pradox's publishing model and CO does have a pretty resonable track record considering the state CS1 was launched in at the time. Therefore, I certainly do lean towards cutting at least CO some slack despite having my own, negative, opinion on Paradox's practices as a publisher. - Despite them still being one of the better examples within the gaming industry. But still, thank you for voicing your opinion. I'm always open to constructive discourse. ✌️

@SineN0mine3

8 ай бұрын

Came here to have your opinion validated and got disappointed, better accuse everyone else of shilling!

When you say the numbers update immediately, you described it as “immediately delivered.” That’s not correct. If items are sold, it’s immediately pulled from inventory and moved to a staging area at the dock waiting to be picked up. At least that’s the way a sale would work. It’s deducted right away because it’s no longer available for sale. The building is running an inventory, and as soon as there is a call for goods, it’s immediately deducted or added to the available inventory pending the arrival of a truck. It’s not too inaccurate. Warehouses in real life immediately deduct outgoing goods all the time, although it’s harder to say that they immediately add goods even before they arrive. I can see a real warehouse having incoming goods showing as pending though. Not too inaccurate, but not ideal either, at least on the receiving end of the equation. Better to update everything at the end of the animation for gameplay satisfaction, but in real life these numbers are immediately affected.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Hey, thank you for sharing your thoughts! ✌️ Do you happen to have a source for your claim of it being incorrect? As things stand, the immediate teleportation behavior holds true while road connections are severed, as thoroughly tested in Part 2 of the little investigation. Which, unless CO happens to have implemented a different, yet identical behavior for that particular case, would support the hypothesis that goods requested by commercial zones are being instantly delivered within the databases, without requiring a separate pickup. From my current testing, only deliveries within their respective zones as well as service buildings (e.g., incinerator plant to landfill) require trucks to physically arrive before items are deducted from storage. Which also strengthens the argument for cross-zone deliveries to be handled differently, as it is rather curious that some deliveries are treated on an "on arrival" basis, while others are either instantaneous or, as you and others have suspected, being deducted from available stock in order to prevent double booking. That said, without mods to access the database of a given building, we can all merely make educated guesses. - Unless, of course, you do happen to have confirmation from a developer on the exact behavior, given that you factually stated that it works in the way you described.

@deputyvillageidiot

8 ай бұрын

@@EVO_CS No I don’t have any confirmation from the developer that that’s actually what’s happening. I just noted your description could have been improved to better capture what might be happening. I only watched your video and noted that numbers change before trucks arrive, and when trucks arrive (as expected since the numbers had changed earlier so we could guess there must be a truck coming) the numbers don’t change again. Also, I noted that trucks arrived either empty and left full or vice-versa, as we roughly expected based on the earlier change in numbers. So I assumed, as you did, that the sales and receipts were being pre-booked because the numbers looked right. We would need to see the ledgers that the simulation runs for each location, because if the claims of this sophisticated economy are correct then the only way the simulation can achieve this is that there must be ledgers for each of these places listing all the ins and outs. As far as confirmation of the practices of running an inventory in a warehouse in real life, my source is that I owned a chain of stores and warehouses servicing 53’ trailers and 42’ containers, so I’m the source based on my profession. Any warehouse will immediately book sales to prevent double selling, and when the truck is coming they will move the goods to a staging area. Also, any warehouse will show the expected arrival of goods as a pending availability, so you can sell them for future deliveries. What I just described is the real-life behavior, and, and any real-life inventory management software will behave that way. I guess the question is, if the simulation is actually behaving like a proper inventory management software. I haven’t watched as far as part 2 yet, but if the numbers still change with roads severed, it appears the running totals are still working but trucks are backing up. I saw similar behavior in Cities Skylines 1 where suddenly a mass of trains would keep spawning at the cargo train stations, representing trains that were unable to be animated earlier-this happened during times when the rails were all backed with traffic and trains were gridlocked, and upon deleting the trains with TMPE the stations would spawn hundreds of trains in a row to get out the goods that were already booked from previously receiving trucks during the gridlock period.

@deputyvillageidiot

8 ай бұрын

As a further thought, the service buildings update upon arrival because coal plants, for example, stop producing power if they don’t receive coal. They deliberately wanted to include traffic and travel time in that scenario, so if you had too much traffic and coal shipments were delayed that you’d lose power. Also like trash, if the trucks don’t arrive on time they wanted to simulate the trash backups. They deliberately had to have chosen not to include traffic and travel time in the stores and industry portion of the economy because those are just cosmetic animations, but for the service buildings (like power plant and trash) those arrivals of supplies and departures of trash were important events for the game.

@EVO_CS

8 ай бұрын

Oh, I under no circumstances meant to cast doubt regarding your IRL expertise. I, without a doubt, have less experience in that regard than you. I merely wondered if your conviction regarding the inner workings of the simulation was founded on something you could direct me towards. As you'll be able to see in the garbage-focused video dissecting the claim of landfills being ignored by the incineration plant as well as the 2. part of the more broadly economy-focused videos, should you choose to watch them, the general theme is that deliveries across zones require physical pick-ups, and only at that very moment, the item will be deducted from storage, whereas cross-zone deliveries seem to happen instantaneously. The latter, however, is exceptionally difficult to prove, beyond the example caught on "camera" where trucks dispatched by commercial zones don't deduct items from storage, whereas those from within the same zone (e.g. industry & specialized industry or different garbage buildings) do deduct items at the time of reaching their pickup destination. I also absolutely do agree with you that I certainly could've phrased my observations and hypotheses better. The whole 'talking to myself'-thing is still a rather foreign experience. That said, thank you for sharing your perceptions and thoughts! While we might not be able to find a definitive answer without access to the underlying data, I wouldn't be surprised if we could at least come close by constructively discussing our observations and interpretations.

@deputyvillageidiot

8 ай бұрын

@@EVO_CS I never felt you were doubting my IRL experience 😉, I only mentioned it to buttress that the immediate tallying of goods in the simulation could be comparable to IRL. I think the real point of interest here is that they deliberately exempted the zones from travel time and traffic, unlike the trash and power plants for example. Maybe the backend of the simulation became too complex and complicated, or even became susceptible to crashing, when truck delays prevented the numbers from being updated in the zones. Services are so few compared to the potential number of zoned locations to keep track of in the simulation. That’s my guess. I’d bet you it’s 1,000:1 it’s all for stability reasons of the simulation’s backend. Also, I like your free-flowing thought. It gives incites into your reasons for believing a certain thing. Also, the viewer is developing his thoughts alongside you, which is great for engagement. Do more of this if possible. Your investigation was very precise and reasonable. Quite fun!