Never be an unquestioning fan of anyone or anything. Question EVERYTHING.

@gordthor5351

4 жыл бұрын

Wand Exactly. That's my motto and I still have to be careful , because I think it is human nature for people to slack off on questioning when they agree with someone on several topics ("we are on the same page of everything"). I think Trump thrives on this flaw in people's reasoning. Trump sets the stage by catering to what he knows are their core beliefs and after that (we see eye to eye) connection, he can do no wrong. Trump is a moron overall, but he certainly realizes how to exploit the most basic human nature (visceral). It "feel" good to see eye to eye with others ("they get me").

@veganlifechange

4 жыл бұрын

Why? :P

@skynet4496

4 жыл бұрын

Questioning is addictive and can isolate you but it's still well worth it once you realize that a lot of people like JP etc are asleep

@lewisbilly12353

4 жыл бұрын

"Questions climate change"- we gotta jail these ppl.

@scienematic4087

4 жыл бұрын

@@lewisbilly12353 what do you mean?

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you. - Don Marquis

@JavierRamirez-lx4ev

5 жыл бұрын

Ummm...if your quoting someone make sure to use quotation marks. “Like this” by Javier

@r011ing_thunder6

5 жыл бұрын

@@JavierRamirez-lx4ev jahvier×

@paulnielsen1446

5 жыл бұрын

​@@JavierRamirez-lx4ev Ummm... Wow, thanks. By the way, if you are attempting to connect the words you and are, that contraction is spelled: "you're".

@forestl-m6261

5 жыл бұрын

why? I think it was quite clear that this was a quote. quotation marks are an instrument to help eliminate ambiguity. paul's post had none to eliminate. it is perfectly acceptable to quote the way he did when there is no chance of misunderstanding

@paulnielsen1446

5 жыл бұрын

​@@forestl-m6261 Thank you for pointing that out in the friendly manner I should have but was at a loss for [in responding to Javier]. It's nice to see people so concerned about the correct use of language...

Finally someone who criticizes Jordan without clearly showing they just hate everything about him good constructive criticism bro

@jimreidelbach9312

Жыл бұрын

I " like" him sometimes; however, even Carl Jung was known to say on more than one occasion- " Thank God I am Jung..and not a Jungian!" Good job.

@AngelaMay66

Жыл бұрын

@matt when I researched Jordan Peterson I find arrogance and hypocrisy. The College of Psychology has numerous independent complaints filed against him for blatant unprofessional misconduct. Instead of being humble enough to search himself, he went on public attack in opposition to every single thing he teaches about keep your house in order, dragging his daughter and the you tube public into his own war instead of taking accountability and correcting his errors. Some people worship him and treat him like he is the omniscient expert on everything and his ego revels in this, instead of having humility to realize that he doesn't have solutions to problems just sanctimonious criticism.

@reginaarnone4845

Жыл бұрын

@may.mercy66 Peterson is a misogynist and a narcissist. I'm sure he was shunned by his peers in academia. He engages in alot intellectual fucking. Not my type.

@victorfrankenstein3636

Жыл бұрын

@@AngelaMay66 Are you kidding? Could you be specific?

@MakotoOPT

Жыл бұрын

​​@@AngelaMay66 lol so @Victor Frankenstein told you to be specific when you clearly were being specific when talking about him being accused of misconduct and how he chose to go about it. This is why you dont argue with JP fans lmfao

To everyone you look up too.....take what you need frm their philosophy and keep it moving.

@birchsongsltd.6831

7 ай бұрын

Best advice on the page. That's been my phylosophy for decades.

@shubhamsonawane5439

3 ай бұрын

This is what should be the motto of our lives. 🙌🙌

In short: Don't be a fanatic and always take everything with a grain of salt.

@CornG4397

3 жыл бұрын

*with

@CornG4397

3 жыл бұрын

@fjf sjdnx ???

@MG-hi9sh

3 жыл бұрын

Emmanuel Gabion Why do I need a grain of salt? That’s a bit strange.

@Kristupasas

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely true. I like Peterson, I listen to his lectures a lot and his thoughts helped me in my life. However, while listening to him, I always have in mind, that not everything that he says is true/relatable to me, so I always trying to be aware of not being fooled.

@bernadettekhan399

3 жыл бұрын

It's a pinch of salt and not everything should be 'taken too lightly', which is the meaning behind it, imao.

This should be renamed, "The problem with Peterson's 'Fanboys."

@daivahataka

4 жыл бұрын

Definitely, or more accurately "The problem with celebrity culture", where people place great value on the views of other people simply because that other person is a celebrity and not because they have any actual expertise in the subject matter at hand. It is a problem far from unique to fans of Jordan Peterson. Who cares what the Kardashians think about anything other than fashion, or what way Kanye is going to vote or that Kathy Griffen is triggered AGAIN.... As for Jordan speaking on matters outside his expertise the solution is simple, Stop asking him about them! This is why people were laughing about the Australian woman asking him about fixing climate change, he never said he was an expert on the environment so you achieved nothing by showing he had no answers for climate change.

@montyjoiner2193

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@daivahataka

4 жыл бұрын

@James Dowds my hero nothing, he's an interesting thinker, nothing more. He is too religiously oriented and constantly uses various ploys to play for more time to think as people then stupidly think his eventual answer is off the cuff and ohh and ahh. I just think it's pathetic when people like you try to tear someone down and can't even go after the real person for their actual flaws but have to make up a strawman of them instead, just shows you to be a far lesser being than your target.

@brazenbull636

4 жыл бұрын

Love him, hate him. He's doing alot of good for alot people. Those hardcore fanboys are probably those who have benefited most. But yea, descending into blind following is never good..

@boyo4172

4 жыл бұрын

@@daivahataka He's not really an interesting thinker though that's the thing. It becomes pretty clear when you really look at what he's saying, or watch him try to talk to someone who's educated. You have to really pay attention, because he drones on with these 50 word sentences of him talking in circles and making very little sense, he loses people and they figure it's just a bit too intelligent and complex for them to follow. He's not your hero yet here you are making excuses for him and attacking his critics. You're clearly a bigger fan than you admit. At least you have the sense to be embarrassed about it.

The video: There isn't that much wrong with your idol guys, but you yourself should chill and take a step back when you consume information. 8,4k dislikes: And we took that personally.

@GOOFYgoober112

Жыл бұрын

Wait, How are you seeing the dislikes? I thought youtube removed them

@dirtmcgirt1038

Жыл бұрын

@@GOOFYgoober112 yeah I was going to ask the same question

@nikoniortnike

Жыл бұрын

@@GOOFYgoober112 There's a Chrome extension that returns the dislike button.

@lionelgrisbane-ud87

Жыл бұрын

Um can you not see the Likes button? Because there’s 25k smart guy

@dirtmcgirt1038

Жыл бұрын

@@lionelgrisbane-ud87 yeah but that's kind of a high like/dislike ratio.

As a long-time Peterson fan, I loved the video David, this is without a doubt the most reasonable take on Peterson's rise to fame I've seen. And albeit I didn't learn anything from this video - probably because I am just one of those open-minded people, and thus disagreed with some of Peterson's takes (specifically some of his philosophical beliefs) from the get-go - it did remind me that yes, there are some Peterson followers that treat him like some kind of cult leader, or at the very least fall victim to instinctively believing everything that he utters as if he's some kind of omnipotent being blessing us with his knowledge. This video will definitely help a lot of people stuck in the Peterson rabbit hole, good stuff!

@JohnSmith-bs9ym

6 ай бұрын

Most of his psychological takes are very insightful and helpful, but when I went and bought his book, I couldn't believe that it was actually about his religious views. I kid you not, he turned into a bible thumper in his book lmao...

@felsenmeer3004

6 ай бұрын

Yes, like really a ick moment for me.@@JohnSmith-bs9ym

@DjWellDressedMan

2 ай бұрын

The Intellectual We Deserve Jordan Peterson’s popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape… By Nathan J. Robinson @ Current Affairs .org. 14 March 2018 "...Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say. This should be obvious to anyone who has spent even a few moments critically examining his writings and speeches, which are comically befuddled, pompous, and ignorant. They are half nonsense, half banality. In a reasonable world, Peterson would be seen as the kind of tedious crackpot that one hopes not to get seated next to on a train..."

When I was a young man if I felt a person who had some good ideas I tended to accept ALL their ideas. I think this is quite common amongst young people because when you are young you don't have the experience to be able to critically analyze a universe of ideas that you develop as you grow older. So it is easier to accept the ideas of someone you believe has other good positions as a proxy. I didn't like not to have a position because, without one, you have no position in the conversation and thus you feel you are irrelevant.

@edwardmitchell6581

2 жыл бұрын

Well said. These kids see him as a father figure. His advice is actually called the "Dad pill", largely due to his focus on individualism and self-reliance. AA give the opposite advice. And when Jordan had a problem with anxiety, his family had to help him. It's a conflicting message. But Jordan is all about good stories (Biblical heroes etc.), not philosophy built on axioms, like he claims. (Because if that were true, as someone who like to debate, wouldn't he share he's premises?) And who doesn't want to be a hero?

@xpsxps1339

2 жыл бұрын

I'd agree that's a matter of the followers' youth, inexperience, and insecurity combined with J. Peterson's exceptional skill to explain quite complex issues in a palatable manner, even to people who have no idea about philosophy or psychology. But David is right - the fact Dr. Peterson is well educated, sensitive, and a great communicator doesn't make him infallible. Also, I suspect Dr. Peterson is absolutely conscious of his status as the political figure, sort of, lol, only he doesn't want to accept it publicly because that obviously wasn't his intention to become one. It happened as "collateral damage" of his public performances because, as David correctly pointed out, all his topis basically are highly politically charged directly or indirectly. And you are right in the evaluation of his acts in the eyes of his adoring followers. He probably filled the gap of the missing impressive father figure for many young men; sigh... So, when somebody attacks him, his "kids" are protecting him - sort of natural, though, in this particular case, not a very healthy approach. And over here, I would expect Dr. Peterson to personally intervene and guide his followers further from himself and closer to critical and independent thinking.

@gosforthlad

2 жыл бұрын

Like you guys don't also apply trust and resonance when listening to your guru's too . And why shouldn't someone be liked , accepted and popular ? Whats wrong with that ? Isn't that what the presenter of this video wants also ?

@edwardmitchell6581

2 жыл бұрын

@@gosforthlad Very good questions. I think it would be more helpful for you to answer those yourself though since the answers are not short. I'll give you some themes though: Balance of opinions Control Group think

@gosforthlad

2 жыл бұрын

@@edwardmitchell6581 The nuances of the English language and self reflection are obviously lost on you . My questions were rhetorical and I already know the answers to them . Your comments are childish and reeking of envy .

I really like Peterson, and I absolutely agree with you. Peterson is well learned and articulate that he can easily make a convincing case, but he is not always right. Your advice on diversifying our sources of information is the key.

@bentonschaefer

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone who watches Dr. Peterson needs to watch this, and read this comment.

@joemagarac405

3 жыл бұрын

Read his Maps of Meaning - or try to. It’s laughably bad, syntactically and logically garbled half-digested Jungian nonsense.

@christamcdonald8933

3 жыл бұрын

@@bentonschaefer p0

@bentonschaefer

3 жыл бұрын

Christa McDonald ?

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

lheizmann I’ve just read this. He’s spot on. Peterson belongs in the LOA/self help guru category. Robinson nails it when he says whenever Peterson is vague, he’s staying the obvious once you unpack the message. When he’s being specific, his message is horrifying. I’ve seen vids where he’s encouraging ppl to ditch others once you perceive them to be less than you, vids where he’s encouraging tax dodging. He’s a MASSIVE racist. He’s a complete psychopath who actually encourages ppl to only look after their own interests and trample on the weak or poor.

I love how you are articulating your points and questioning things 👏👏

@randomz5890

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's really fascinating and actually fun to listen to.

I am a leftist and I've been benefiting from some of Peterson's advice on the self-improving practical side of things - being more goal oriented, and aiming to self-improve at work and for my family. But I admit I had to filter out a lot of his lectures, as some of these were clearly based on his political view, which is clearly on the Right side of the spectrum.

@peterwilliams9892

Жыл бұрын

What is wrong with being conservative?

@peterwilliams9892

Жыл бұрын

@@zimskasalamaa I could say the same about liberals. I can’t go anywhere in town without seeing a pride flag. I get canceled if I don’t use your made up preferred pronouns. Your leadership has mandated an experimental vaccine that has segregated a part of the population. It seems like if I don’t conform to your leftist ideology I will get canceled it lose my job. That doesn’t seem very fair or balanced. Who is pushing world views on who now?

@ricardolopez6081

Жыл бұрын

@@zimskasalamaa you should be a comedian

@j.p.holiday8899

Жыл бұрын

@@peterwilliams9892 These days? Most things.

@lastburning

Жыл бұрын

@@peterwilliams9892 From a leftist POV, a lot of things. Politics affect people's wellbeing so political beliefs can be harmful.

This argument can be applied to any fan base that exists. There are always zealous outliers that devot themselves way too hard.

@MCWaffles2003-1

4 жыл бұрын

wow

@spankstar

4 жыл бұрын

@Stefan Slade poisonous how? because their view points don't align with yours? if not, do tell.

@drystkrab269

4 жыл бұрын

Pakman can't address his arguments. that's y he makes up nothing issues with Peterson.

@redmen2822

4 жыл бұрын

@@spankstar They're probably not anymore poisonous than your average political fan base. I do find it interesting how easy it is to see the outrageously chaotic nature of most KZread comment sections, and then it becomes so clear why the real world is so similarly chaotic.

@daivahataka

4 жыл бұрын

@@drystkrab269 yeah, it seems like an extreme strawman, can't attack peterson the man so instead attack his fans, seems to be a common approach from his detractors. Wonder if the Newman interview put them off trying to strawman his words... 🤣

You can be intelligent, highly intelligent and very well educated, but still be completely wrong on any number of subjects. A polymath can also be a polymoron.

@belindamay8063

2 жыл бұрын

I think you may be referring to people who are morally defective, despite being highly intelligent. It might point to some type of personality disorder, at least a kind of moral blindness. People like that are often extremely successful in their working lives - very active on both sides of the law.

@Darkar21933

2 жыл бұрын

Then you shouldn't be talking about those subject as if you were right

@zachmorgan6982

2 жыл бұрын

A polymoron! That's a good 1

@cristianproust

2 жыл бұрын

I don't get why this is mentionable. I suppose is because Americans have a tendency to search purity, to think religiously. No thinker doesn't have a series of profoundly stupid ideas attached. From Nietzsche to Chomsky, not a single human. In fact, the most groundbreaking some idea more dumb in other areas, because those personalities take positions to extremes with ease. Why is that discussed of Peterson?. Pick what you find valuable and move one. I'm pretty sure Pakman thinks he is the arbiter and does not grant the courtesy of thinking he could be holding dumb ideas himself

@billmoss2877

2 жыл бұрын

Well put.

What’s wrong with this world is that you HAVE to be put into a box. You have to be left wing, or you have to be right wing, and if you have an opinion, often a logical one, and it’s not in line with the far left, or far right, you’re suddenly branded as the opposite. What has happened to logic, what has happened to not being completely ridiculous. I may not agree with everything that Jordon Petersen says, but a lot of what he says makes LOGICAL sense. When I agree with him, I must be right wing, and if I don’t, I must be left. There needs to be WAY more logic in this world, because extremes are a real problem!

4 years later he doesnt even try to hide that hes apolitical anymore

Yes; Ironically, Jordan Peterson has always warned about the evils of tribalism.

@uncannyvalley2350

3 жыл бұрын

Alot of (all) right wing propaganda is based in reverse psychology, it seems to me they're all students of psychological warfare and drawing from the kind of research into cults done during MK Ultra experiments done by the CIA. They're also all Roman Catholics

@BrightBlueJim

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. It's been a great source of inspiration for his tribe.

@jordandeboer5258

3 жыл бұрын

@Justin Bradburn did you just call David Duke a leftist??

@Junebug89

3 жыл бұрын

@Justin Bradburn lmao the idea of claiming you aren't engaging in tribalism while claiming that any leftist notion is "demokkkrat bullshit". My dude, do you seriously have no idea how badly you are contradicting yourself.

@Junebug89

3 жыл бұрын

@Justin Bradburn Mussolini, Richard Spencer, David Duke, Hitler and Goebbells are all right wingers, not leftists. The Obamas, Clintons, Pelosi and Harris are center-right. You can't just call everyone you don't like a leftie, words have meanings.

"The intensity of his defenders goes beyond facts, and goes into feelings, emotions, loyalty beyond reason" EXACTLY 👌

@stephenhughes2526

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed it does. Or at least it does in many cases. But it happens on both sides.

@ashbirk4681

3 жыл бұрын

But that’s not Jordan Peterson... that’s people who like Jordan peterson

@jamescarter3738

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to say that’s a critique on his defenders not him. But that’s not even a critique on his defenders, that’s just a general observation on how a lot of people are defensively bias about shit they like.

@MaRi-zp9zk

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamescarter3738 right, but when you are a doctor doing this type of work, to enlighten people, you would point that out to them, about critical thinking, just look what the lack of critical thinking did to trump voters, the percentage of his voters who believed these wild conspiracy theories about the election, it’s destroying republicans, conservatives, right leaning people, the numbers are too great to ignore this, the people with a following needs to point this problem out.

@jamescarter3738

3 жыл бұрын

@@MaRi-zp9zk yeah I see what you’re saying but it goes on amongst political ideologies the same. Like to undermine the lefts message and motives based on the crazy and radical minority of the overall following is just as nonsensical as this critique of Jordan Peterson’s. You know what I mean?

This video talks respectfully about how you need to think for yourself learning from how others think for themselves, this is what I needed!

I wish I saw this when it was first posted, though it is as on the mark today as it was over four years ago. It is the most intelligent, insightful, and fair analysis and critique of Jordan Peterson I have ever come across...and it is expertly and clearly communicated in just 20 minutes.

@lady4191

2 ай бұрын

Lol what did they pay you to lie like that?

@kahlesjf

2 ай бұрын

@@lady4191 Opinions are not lies. At least I am clear about what I think of this video. Your comment is devoid of meaningful content, honest or otherwise.

Heh, only in America could Climate Change be a "political issue"

@kristianj.8798

5 жыл бұрын

I know. Anyone in most European countries, who questions the legitimacy of the issue, is likely to be considered a wackjob.

@berbersista

5 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately the Germany has a lot of people arguing whether climate change is real or not. A far-right German Party is still demanding proof and says that climate change depends on the sun’s heat.

@IamMissPronounced

5 жыл бұрын

@@berbersista oh good lord....

@berbersista

5 жыл бұрын

MissPronounced yeah she argued that climate change is not man made and that cold water absorbs carbon dioxide. She said that if climate change is real it’s not man-made but sun-made and that we should sue the sun if that were the case. Also interesting to know about her: she’s the grand-daughter of Hitlers’ secretary for finance. So there’s that.

@manatee-qj8lb

5 жыл бұрын

@@kristianj.8798 I live in the Netherlands and climate change is and will always be a political issue because it is about money.

The first advice i heard from him years ago on jre was like "clean your room before u go out and try to change the world". I listened and never got into the politics side. In fact I'm still trynna clean "my room". so yeah, he's a free psychologist to me and thats it.

@avamasquerade

3 жыл бұрын

Then he's achieved his objective of making you doubt your own self leadership because you're likely still cleaning your room while watching the world burn. Sidenote; Your room will never be clean enough. It was never even meant to be.

@ozark4737

3 жыл бұрын

@@avamasquerade well damn 🤣u picked a perfect time to talk about watching the world burn. But yeah I was 16 and doubted my "self leadership" already. He ended up being a spark in what eventually led to me maturing. I get if u don't like him & i don't keep up with what he's doing. But Even if he was a terrible person, it wouldn't change the fact that the few pieces of advice i heard from him on Jre helped me thru a rough time 4 years ago. That was the end of it for me. Im not arguing over the internet, i just thought I'd clarify. Stay safe yo

@avamasquerade

3 жыл бұрын

@@ozark4737 I just don't like a person who stands on a podium preaching at people to go clean their room because they're not good enough to change the world when he, himself, was in desperate need of actually getting clean. My point is that if people are waiting to be deemed "good enough" to make profoundly positive changes to the world around them by these soon to be former overlords, then they'll never even leave the house. While I'm glad his advice helped you (and some of his lectures were fascinating) a person who dismisses you like you're some annoying child and who is so damned disrespectful as to tell you to go clean your room when you have *serious existential concerns,* while he nurses a many years long opioid addiction just isn't a good source for guidance.

@aafgahfah

3 жыл бұрын

@Charity Ava why are you unable to distinguish between the messenger and the message? Peterson’s opioid problem is irrelevant.

@toddtrimble2555

3 жыл бұрын

@@aafgahfah If Peterson's message of "you are not qualified to address the world's ills until your own affairs are in order" is to apply to everyone, including himself, then by those rules his opioid problems are not entirely irrelevant. I'd be a little leery of the guru-type (functionally the role he plays for many): he may have good things to say, but "shut up and clean your room" I find just a wee bit presumptuous.

i'm a huge JP fan and searched for a good critique to have a "view check", thank you!

@graycat7704

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Not a fan but agreed with some ideas. I want my views challenged.

@JessicaGail

2 жыл бұрын

Respect to you both for being mature enough to seek opposing views

@iamrichlol

2 жыл бұрын

same. why i'm here. he's getting a lot of bad press as of late, and i don't want to be as miopic as the people of the left that I despise

@michaelmeyer4858

2 жыл бұрын

Same thats exactly why im here. I feel like ive already picked up on at least 2 obvious issues with this critique in the first 6.5 minutes. 1. The point about JP not being right wing. But the way this guy talks about it makes it sound like 'if you're not left, youre right. No middle ground. And does not JP describe himself as a classical liberal? If i remember that correctly, then does not that jive perfectly with JP's views listed in the beginning? And 2) he claims that JP really came to prominence by his "vocal opposition to transgender pronouns." I think that is either a lazy and obtuse, or intentional and malicious mischaracterization. It could have been a number of specific issues. It happened to be pronouns. He wasn't voicing opposition to pronouns, he was voicing opposition to compelled speech, which is a drastically different point.

I kinda like Peterson he felt genuine with the crying and the objections to some extrems we see today on all the current political and societal topics. I didn't look or search at alot of what he says but kept seeing him hear and there, but I started hearing irl people I trust sound some alarms about him so I needed to do my due diligence and look outside the echo chamber social media traps us in and search what was up with him and I think you explained it very well. He acts knowingly or not like a guru to a segment of the population that is being left out and unrepresented. Thank you for this view point.

Couldn't the case be made that Peterson discusses topics related to psychology, sociology, and philosophy, which unavoidably overlaps politics, but that he prefers not to focus on the areas of overlap?

@HansLennros-ry5iz

4 жыл бұрын

The 'Peterson Preach' is supposed to be guidelines for people with a somewhat solid ground under their feet. Some have not and they will be disgruntled over the preachings.

@ejaganjac7085

4 жыл бұрын

No. He willingly entered the political sphere then bitched about it when he got his ass handed back to him. Great communicator, psychologist, and businessman tho.

@corruptfaith6674

4 жыл бұрын

@@ejaganjac7085 Wasn't part of his talk about Petersons followers that attack people? I wonder.......was he talking about Petersons followers, or his own?

@ALLiNEEDSKATE

4 жыл бұрын

@Exec Utize hahaha

@nightwingaven69

4 жыл бұрын

@@ejaganjac7085 I wish for you to link what ever you are talking about. I have never seen him "have his ass handed to him"

You articulate this so well. You've scratched an itch that's been bothering me since I was introduced to him Thank you

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

He really didn't. He kept saying " petersons ideology" while peterson dispises the idea of ideology. One example of why he isn't accurate enough imo. Oh no one asked? Sorry ^^

@finndaniels9139

3 жыл бұрын

camefromice just because Peterson claims he doesn’t have an ideology, doesn’t mean he actually doesn’t. He’s clearly a Christian conservative and not too much more

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

@@finndaniels9139 that's not an ideology , god you can't just throw words around. Also you put him into that box, there is even a video why he thinks that he can't be just conservative. Stop labeling people just so you have a point to stand on. No offense, just sayin

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

Also; why is it important what he is ? How about we stop putting people into boxes and take them for what they are actually doing and saying

@finndaniels9139

3 жыл бұрын

camefromice I mean it is a subset of an ideology, conservatism is the ideology of which there are different forms, fiscal conservatism, paternalistic conservatism etc. Religious conservatism absolutely is a subset of an ideology.

Thanks for putting together this intro to the phenomenon of Jordan Peterson. People will wonder what rock I’ve been living under, but I hadn’t been that aware of him. In the past month, however, 2 content providers I’ve started following-one talking about Ukraine and the other talking about Nietzsche-felt the need to weigh in with a counterpoint to what Peterson said on their subject, so I figured I should learn more about him. This seemed like a fair, accurate portrayal, neither demonizing nor eulogizing him, and raising some very legitimate concerns about the people who are so devoted to him.

Let me give my personal opinion about why the advice given by Peterson is so powerful. I already knew most of the advice he gives from many personal development gurus. Yet, the power of Peterson's words go beyond all of them. From my analysys, the main factor is the complete map he gives together with the advice. You do not only learn what to do. You learn Why to do, How to do, What expectations to have, The quensequnces of not doing, etc. The way he articulate the "fairly obvious advice" almost forces you to act upon it and better yourself. Unlike any other person giving personal development advice(and i checked tens before him), Peterson's words have the most power. As for political views, I encourage anyone to use the power of the internet and peoperly reseach every peoblem, find the facts, and decide based on the facts of the matter.

@Tobitobiify

Жыл бұрын

What you say is so true!

@ahmedsudaisbatua-an435

10 ай бұрын

his books are for those who obsess about a concept relatively pointed to any nihilistic point of view. people who have overly inclination on doubtfulness about any abstractions of thought i guess. and i think his axioms are dismantled on those books not superficially and shallow, but clearly and profoundly.

Peterson: "You are ALL INDIVIDUALS" Fans, in unison: "YES WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS"

@mykehog6646

5 жыл бұрын

yes..it reminds me of the "life of brian"..when brian's mum says to a crowd..you're all individuals..and a lone voice pipes up..i'm not...lmao

@pablowall

5 жыл бұрын

Packman: "Jordan Peterson isn't an omniscient guru, he's a smart guy but he's not infallible, and don't blindly follow anything" Packman fans in unison: "PeTeRsOn Is A dUmB pErSoN's IdEa Of A sMaRt PeRsOn" it's like everyone commenting on this page has missed the fucking point lol. Peterson has his strengths and weaknesses, just like any and every idolized intellectual, in certain contexts Peterson's ideas are wildly misguided, in certain contexts he speaks profound wisdom.... as an engineer i know a good deal about engineering, and i know fuck-all about programming. Every "intellectual" should be taken in context, For example, i really rate Sam Harris as a profound thinker, but i probably know a great deal more about Engineering than he does, i would wreck him in that context.

@kefsound

5 жыл бұрын

@@pablowall you really need to learn some philosophy

@obsoletethoughts3930

5 жыл бұрын

@@kefsound just curious what your point is?

@mileslugo6430

5 жыл бұрын

Lol

I have to admit bro, I'm a Peterson fan and was skeptical of this video by the title, but the time you take and the nuance you use has impressed me. I think a lot of Peterson's fans need to watch this to understand that they should not rely on him for spiritual leadership in all matters. I think there's a couple of reasons for their loyalty though... 1. We live in a generation without fathers, and 2. A lot of people need thought leaders to teach them how to think. Although I'd rather Peterson fill that space than some of the other options. You've earned a subscriber mate. From Australia. Good work.

@antifagoat6591

5 жыл бұрын

"We live in a generation without fathers" - Either this is more Poppa Lobster rhetoric or you got some s'plaining to do.

@shadowprince4482

5 жыл бұрын

I like Peterson. I don't agree with much of what he says but there are a few things I really like about him. Overall I agree with you and Pakman as well.

@hcpalmer

5 жыл бұрын

I think Peterson is far more dangerous than you may realize - it's really important to undermine and defeat a griffter and charlatan like him.

@chadst0r

5 жыл бұрын

i think both sides have a points. i don't believe everything Peterson say's however i also think he has a point. TBH i think some issues we are talking about, we shouldn't be talking about as it brings light to these issues and who's to say when an issue is fixed.. the problem with humanity i always find is we either over do it or not enough!! the key for most things is moderation in moderation.... we never seem to reach that IMO, also a point you made up of pererson fans being rowdy or attacking people (not sure if you used that word) but that's on both sides of the fence.... oh and greeting from Australia mate!

@samwellboy

5 жыл бұрын

First off: yes, great self-awareness, Jonesy! Second: I think to see Peterson's weaknesses is quite hard, especially cause they lay in where he refuses to speak. He won't align himself with the right, but he sure as hell won't criticise them... unless asked point-blank, when he'll say he doesn't like extreme right wing people. But with the amount of intellectual dishonesty we see on all sides of the spectrum, it's telling that he almost exclusively focusses on one side. His arguments are often strong (though often not as strong as presented!), but it's really his silences that show his bias and allegiance. Friendly greetings from an ex-JP fan

This is a great analysis. I've been intrigued by peterson for many years, but not always agreeing with everything he says. Somehow I've been mostly fed glorified clips of him on social media, as the algorithms go. As someone not emerged in one side or the other this was a great learning experience

You should have titles this video "The Problem With JP Fans". Although I agree with your points that no one should just blindly follow any public figure or ideology, you struggled to convey actual criticism of JP and apart from him trying to distance himself from politics. Surely you can understand why any public figure would want disassociate themselves from the toxic arena of politics. intentionally or unintentionally JP is avoiding to be grouped into politics because he understands what comes with it. similarly to how I've heard you on the Jesse Lee show disassociate yourself from being a "progressive and a leftist". You both do the same thing but on difference sides of the political isle. Great examination of the fans though, it's important that we check ourselves and how much influence we afford to these public figures. including you too.

@MrOrd123

2 жыл бұрын

@@mrmrt7535 I agree in part to the characterisation of some JP and Shapiro fans. There is a awful lot of tribalism in society and it's clearly creeped into socioeconomical debating arena. I being relatively conservative, am still able to give credit to arguments from the left and even critique and change some of my own. What I tend to find is there are a lot of people on the left that aren't able to do the same. I've found there is a natural reluctance to admit that JP and Shapiro are making good and solid points on issues simply because their fans tend to be butt hurt. This is wrong. I disagree with Pakman on many things but I do not tailor my responses based on his audience but rather on the issue he's presented. it's classic ad hominem to just attack someones fan base rather than the ideas they've presented. The world is too polarised and it's stifling the nature of our debates. One thing I would love to see is JP and Pakman go head to head on the issue of masculinity, wokeness and climate change. That would be box office

@MrRailjunkie

Жыл бұрын

@@MrOrd123 Ben Shapiro is a trump loving moron who spreads hate speech & influences the far right.

It's important to dissect the man in two. Psychology and self help wise he is clearly well equipped and well qualified and actually quite helpful for many people, ik a few personally. His politics tho he is just another person with another opinion it's important not to hold EVERY word someone you like as true he is a human just like us and all humans have a tendency to be wrong sometimes

@somethingelse4150

2 жыл бұрын

You had it right to begin with. We need to dissect him. Period

@con.troller4183

2 жыл бұрын

@@somethingelse4150 _He appears to be a normal human being. I wonder how he managed the deception. Oh well, stitch him up._

@heikorudiger3258

2 жыл бұрын

We don't only have a tendency to be wrong sometimes. More like it's a miracle we get any things right😂😂

@cristianproust

2 жыл бұрын

Not really. He gives that impression because there is a lot of clips floating around, but his view on politics is one of the most balanced I have found. He, next to Jonathan Haidt, Steven Pinker are the only scientists that I know that acknowledge the biological proclivity of people toward Left and Right, so Peterson's arguments assume both sides are convinced they are correct and they have to base in a dialogue which solution to implement. From almost every argument I have heard the Left and Right position. You get to understand better how Conservatives think, even if you don't agree with them (which is essencial in case you want to convince them) Granting legitimacy to both sides at the same time is something that is not done at discussing politics. He does not like the extremes, but the core of his message is that the tension between Left and Right produces the advancement in society, because both play a critical role. The Left protecting the weak, the Right being skeptical of new solutions, so the job of the Left is to convince to move forward. That view is light years away of the caricature that Left and Right do of each other in their echo chambers

@stevedriscoll2539

2 жыл бұрын

@@heikorudiger3258 when or what, for example, did homo sapiens get anything right?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ok, the amount of art of him displayed was very disturbing.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

😂👌 exactly this. I was into JP up until about end of 2019. (Wasn’t into him right from his whole bill c-16 thing) So not a fan boy! 1st time I got suspicious of him was when Peter Hitchens described him as a guru. I’ve re-watched a few of his vids, the guy is unhinged. And that’s not going from 1 extreme to the other. He’s an elitist, pro capitalist, rampant advocate of individualism, his message is “there’s a load of people in society, who are in your way, get smarter in the way you operate.” He’s constantly trying to justify selfishness, he does this really well. A total sociopath. He endorses tax dodging, in 1 vid he endorses ditching people once you perceive them to be less than you. He says lefties are “excessively impulsive in compassion and compassion is the line between cuddling your baby or throwing it out the window!” He’s a MASSIVE racist. It would not surprise me if he’s being funded from some right wing groups, almost all of what he says about the left ties in with propaganda from right wing outlets.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Crispin Fornoff for stop and search policies he said, “find out who it is and why you’re stopping them. Being accused of racism could be a side effect.” In another vid he said “Greeks are corrupt, they don’t pay their income tax. Why do we pay our taxes, maybe we shouldn’t like the Greeks.” There’s other examples too of him being a full on racist. As for capitalism, the privatisation of healthcare when public health authorities could handle coronavirus results in private corps like Deloitte and Serco profiting during a global pandemic here in the U.K. Serco have FAILED with the test and trace app. Individualism, boy oh boy, that’s a mess both sides of the political spectrum have contributed to. Socially/culturally the left are responsible for and the “conservatives” have embraced whole heartedly. Economically, the right wing are responsible. The whole “there’s no such thing as a society”, neoliberalism has led to Britain scoring consistently high in loveliness, no country in Europe has embraced individualism, competition and consumerism as much as the U.K.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Crispin Fornoff what you’ve written is total gibberish. Our test and trace system was contracted to a private company, w/o tender, the app didn’t pass security! Privatisation is inefficient. As for thinking I’m a student, you’ve just created a straw man, you’ve deffo learned well from Peterson! Read the last 10 pages of chapter 3, classic Peterson! This is taken from Nathan J Robinson’s “the intellectual we deserve” article. “Note the response to the “poor man’s plight,” which is not to actually help him but to show him what a better person you are so that he will have a model to emulate.” Classic JP! 12 Rules for Life is a LOA book, full of spurious arguments against taking an active interest in politics or society, since the true meaning of life is taking care of me, myself and I. 😂 nothing new, plenty of LOA coaches out there, now clear off fan boy! 😂

@chrisvalenzuela7911

3 жыл бұрын

@@naveed210 that was a nice thing you did. Saying you were a fan to give your made up, over exaggerated, paranoid criticism of him any credibility. Yes, Peterson has his faults and moments of hypocrisy. As does everyone else. No one should dick ride any person. Fanboys are cringey. You know what else is cringey? Blind hate. Relax, kid.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Chris Valenzuela nice try fan boy! The guy is nothing but a LOA coach spouting rubbish on topics he knows nothing about. In 1 vid he says, “I bet on Britain over the EU after Brexit, because they have a history of muddling their way through things.” That’s about as close as 1 can get to white/British supremacy, his confidence isn’t based on facts or statistical analysis, but just blind faith. Have a read of the last 10 pages of chapter 3 in Rules for Life, classic Peterson!

Finally! I feel like I've been taking crazy pills. I think for the most part Peterson is just a very competent (and clever) rhetorician and a charismatic public speaker...but when you actually step back and pick apart what he says it becomes clear that he's just pushing his own political cart and that his argumentation is often fallacious...though he's rarely competently challenged on it, at least not where his fans are likely to see

@dcpayne5264

2 жыл бұрын

Jordan Peterson is the only person who is respected for taking simple concepts like - hungry people want food - and then turning that into an unnecessary rambling 3,000 word mess.

@christoh0072

Жыл бұрын

@@dcpayne5264 relax, he's still right in some cases; not everyone can be right. You just dislike him and that alone has already clouded your judgement about him.

@glenalguire6960

3 ай бұрын

@@dcpayne5264I guess you understand most of what he says

@maitreyiseraph

3 ай бұрын

One is not a "competent rhetorician" when one's words don't even follow logical and factual consistency.

I think JP is just too smart for a lot of his audience, there’s a difference between being hypocritical and being paradoxical

One of the main reasons I could never take Peterson too seriously is because of how seriously he takes himself.

@jrmop0965

5 жыл бұрын

Pretty much, his arrogance and self importance almost always gives him away. Borderline narcissistic behaviour.

@charleshatt1281

5 жыл бұрын

@ Yep, I've watched at least 30 of his talks and debates. One example is his refutation of the concept of "white privilege" as Marxist and post-modern. I hate post-modernism myself, but anyone with even an inkling of historical knowledge would know that, in the western world, "white privilege" is not an abstract, post-modern concept but a historical reality that has shaped the modern western world. That is one of many examples.

5 жыл бұрын

@@charleshatt1281 The existence of previous discrimination doesn’t prove the existence of a current WP. WP as I understand it, it is a systemic advantage that every single white enjoys over other minorities. But there is a refutation in the fact in many structural elements, Asian -Americans have, by every metric, a remarkably higher income and standard of living. You have to account for the fact that those people grew up not in our current environment, where the stereotype is of intellectual proficiency and excellence, the did decades ago, when the archetypes of Asians were of mockery and negligible cartoonish individuals. If they prospered in that context, it is a proof that the fairness of the system allows people to prosper even in conditions of bad social perception by the white majority. Otherwise they would have been systematically punished resulting in a lower hierarchical position. White privilege it is actually a concept from the “neo-Marxists”. Marx developed the idea of the worker being oppressed, either he admitted or not. And extended the guilt of the unfairness to the entire upper class. White privilege is an extended guilt of the entire ethnic group, because everyone is supposed to have it. The feminism uses the same structure. They use the axiom that if the representation is not equal to the demographic proportion it is irrefutable proof of discrimination. That is nonsense. Men and women choose different occupations and the more egalitarian the country more polarized the differences. They perpetuate the false 50% 50% as equality when we do know that besides the difference in choices, we have a difference in the standard deviation of IQ e.g, and many other traits. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patriarchy-paradox-how-equality-reinforces-stereotypes-96cx2bsrp www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913003036 Having the most talented individuals and the most defective. That’s is why the proportion of e.g chess masters is 1627 to 32, and rarely you see a woman among the first 100 players. Overrepresentation does not mean discrimination. I mention feminism and how they hide proven scientific facts because they need that oppression narrative to be permanent. The Genders studies generalized this toxic interpretation of reality to race as well in the African American studies. All from the same faculties. www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2018/10/06/another-set-of-fake-papers-takes-aim-at-social-sciences-nether-regions www.vox.com/2018/10/15/17951492/grievance-studies-sokal-squared-hoax The structural problems of the black community have way more relation to the lack of structure of the family, when in the 50s they had 70% of children born within wedlock, and today is the other way around. That is the greatest predictor of stability and lack of problems with the law. I will not state why (because science does not have conclusive evidence), but there is an IQ gap in the black community respect to the rest; which society is working on, but that makes impossible to occupy the same proportion of technical jobs in relation to the demographics- Jews have the same problem. They are 0,2% of the population of the world and have 22% of ALL Nobel prizes and 27% of ALL Fields medals with a genocide in between. The scientific community and the government are working in decreasing the gap (as it has been the case through the last century) but the curve decays exponentially and that makes the proportion decrease dramatically (I leave you an article). IQ doesn’t define a person but has a high correlation with financial success and particularly occupation and visibility in positions of power in society. www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics greyenlightenment.com/iq-and-morality-iq-and-job-performance/ Besides that, you have an absurd cultural differentiation. In Europe blacks do not talk differently neither their talk of systemic oppression. Mixed people are not subjected to the ridiculous one drop rule, that makes impossible to break the racial divide (which is artificial because blacks have at least 30% of European DNA and 21% of whites too, so scientifically it is referred just as populations, not races.). In Europe people do not ask someone’s race, that would be rude. The result is people do not feel they are talking to a “foreigner” which might happen in many cases. There is a huge amount of problems, and many are probably due to the historical development, but from the most critical and devastating parameters non implies a white oppression of blacks, and certainly there is evidence that although racism exists, it is by no means the controlling factor (I really hope you don’t see this as some kind of “eugenics” argument, because the article I posted explains that we have reasons to believe we can continue decreasing the gap, but it is impossible to have people working in neurosurgery and aerospace engineering or finance in the same proportions to the demographics because the curve has an exponential drop to the most extreme cases. I also must point out that an average cannot be used to predict an individual location in the curve, because it is mathematically irrational (the properties of a statistical distribution do not pass to the individuals), but it explains the positions structure of the groups as we see it. The neo Marxist claim is attached to a fallacy, that is the demographic representation, or as they call it “intersectionality”, which cannot happen in a heterogeneous population. We could develop better metrics to eliminate bias, but we cannot extend the guilt to groups, because as it is wrong to blame Muslims because some are terrorists, we cannot blame the entire ethnic group of “whites” for cases that do not have the weight that produces the inequality (which in the end is just overrepresentation, most people are mediocre, regardless of their “race”) .

@mohamedelhaddade6371

5 жыл бұрын

lol what a great argument hhh

@zaydeshaddox7015

5 жыл бұрын

"how seriously he takes himself" is really just your own judgment. We could make that judgment about nearly all public figures, like... Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, for example. JBP takes the issues he speaks on seriously. He believes a real crisis is going on and addresses it forcefully... just as forcefully as most feminists address the issues they think are important. We can call anyone who stands up for what they believe in as "narcisstic" and "self important" and "takes himself too seriously".

I’m a huge peterson fan, and this was a really fair critique. Thank you

@pradeep2662

3 жыл бұрын

The problem with his traditionalism is that it applies only to men. He wants women to be able to choose what they want which means they will have to work but puts men into a hunter gatherer style hierarchy system. Whether your default route in life is becoming financially successful or not, never ask for removing your choices. Its counter productive and puts men under do or die frame of mind which wont end well in the long term. Not for us and not for the ones around us. Uniform progress or nothing.

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

Me too and let me tell you, this was not a good critique I am looking for one and this did not do it for me He talks more about the effects of his work than the man itsself. One thing that bothered me a lot was that he kept saying "petersons ideology", well there you can see that he hasn't digged deep enough into peterson because peterson dispises the idea of ideology period. One example of why he isn't doing a fair critique in my opinion

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

@@pradeep2662 I would like to think about your comment,but I need a question to be answered first: How is life not a "do or die thing" if you want to be a functioning part of humanity ? What's your take on that

@camefromice

3 жыл бұрын

@@pradeep2662 or: how is he wrong on that specific aspect

@pradeep2662

3 жыл бұрын

@@camefromice Look at it relatively, with advancements made in women's lives. Either everyone is oppressed in some area and are powerful in the other or everyone's equally powerful/vulnerable. My point isnt even that deep. Women - sit at home, thats good and sit in the office thats good too. Men - one narrow path, either youre in it or youre doomed. Now I understand men need to take the civilization forward and all that stuff but you gotta adapt to the present day. Keeping men's lives in 80s and bringing women's to 2020 is bad for the society. My point is that you gotta the rock that changes the flow of water, not the one that goes with the flow. Peterson wants people to accept and confirm to pre- women's rights era while being pro women. Im not against women getting more social benefits than men but you just dont corner men like that. It makes a world of difference mentally, if you feel like you have a choice but still chose to chase success. For that reason, men in Scandinavia are probably much happier in their daily life than men anywhere else. His speeches might be effective in very backward countries but it doesnt make sense to school men like that in the west. What if a guy gets bossed around by his lady boss at work? can we still come home to his girlfriend with a traditional mindset ? Or hes supposed to have a traditional mindset only while being a corporate slave and turn the "compatible with modern women" switch on before coming home? A lot has changed in the last 30 years and you either adapt or you stay confused. Simply put, he just isolates the situation and talks about it conveniently without addressing all the things related or imp-acted. Most men dont give a f about other men so what I said would never get as much of a traction as his easy and outdated theories.

Life is messy and knowledge and thinking for yourself is a long difficult road... I'm 55 and still learning every day... sometimes I wish I could just stop but a thirst for knowledge is part of who I am, so thanks for imparting that thought David, for those that too easily hold to one philosophy or follow one path in life... it just doesn't work like that unfortunately... although often I wish it did... Great video

@genaugmen4505

Жыл бұрын

There should be no age that you reach where you're not learning something new everyday. Your comment should have more upvotes.

@rrsidentfrickhoe

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, thank you!

@Ant424

Жыл бұрын

@@genaugmen4505 lol, you have a Reddit?

@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin

8 ай бұрын

If you wish you could stop, do you really have a thirst for knowledge? ;)

the reason i believe peterson has gotten so popular is that he articulates peoples gut instincts. that's why he resonates

@j.rustage3794

Жыл бұрын

People's gut instincts? - I prefer people's clear, critical thinking.

@s-c..

Жыл бұрын

People’s? Young men’s maybe.

Once he made a propaganda video for Prager "University", there was no denying he has a political agenda.

@MrSherman8er

5 жыл бұрын

Omegaia1 kinda sad that he got swallowed up in the whole right wing movement. I used to like him a lot before he started hanging out with Ben Shapiro, dave Rubin, and the likes

@AlexRod9646

5 жыл бұрын

When he said, "universities value color of a person when it comes to teaching". I laughed so hard😂😂😂Mate, there will be 0 international students in the US if that were true.

@j.baldwinwasagenius...7575

5 жыл бұрын

This!!!!!

@incinerati

5 жыл бұрын

Milose, steta sto nikog ne boli kurac za tvoje postovanje. ;)

@IAMSTRINDOM

5 жыл бұрын

MrRight James "find me ANY video where he loses an argument." are you interested in the actual real world and what's true within it, or are you just interested in watching a smug dude who sounds confident and smart delivering ~EPIC LOGICSLAMS~ in the intellectual WWE? there are plenty of videos, essays, articles etc. debunking a vast swath of ben's major arguments, but those require thinking with your non-lizard brain, and you dont seem interested in that. i'd love to be proven wrong tho

Classic Halo Effect. If you're right about this, you're automatically right about everything else.

@lucasmoreno4158

2 жыл бұрын

el videojuego se refiere?

@con.troller4183

2 жыл бұрын

Is that what it is called? Thank you. It's sort of the opposite of poisoning the well, a kind of positive ad-hom fallacy.

@zairnermuller4960

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, I did actually agree on his views about the whole pronouns thing. However his ideas are so messed up in other areas. I read both of his latest books and I found myself in awe to realize that he's highly sexist, misogynistic, and a very close minded person. Take into consideration that I'm not a woman yet I found both of his books to be very sexist and misogynistic. He's a supremacist, and he really thinks that this world was created just for us humans, kind of funny considering that even Bees have a more important role in nature than us. I still like some of his idea, but he's certainly not worth the hype, I guess he's highly popular in America since well, he's a Christian and men in America tend to think just like he does, so no wonder he's so popular.

@con.troller4183

2 жыл бұрын

@@zairnermuller4960 He won't admit to being a Christian in debates or interviews with adults but he pitches his faith surreptitiously to his naïve college students. And you know what happens if you disagree with your professor, so even if they detect the bullshit they have no power to act against it. Pretty despicable in my books. Here he is twisting young minds. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qaudm7NykdOud6w.html

@cutecats1368

2 жыл бұрын

Good point.

I like this and i think you brought this over very clearly, because this is the third time i was searching for people that criticise him, because of my own thoughts but until now i couldnt find... People that explain things accurate (without sarcasm, making fun of things, being sassy) wich i do not always understand, and actually find really anoying. So yea nice video ^^

People seriously can't fathom the idea of someone explaining how hierarchies play out vs defending/being a supporter of them

@victorfrankenstein3636

Жыл бұрын

Accurate.

Thank you so much for pointing this out. It is not only useful for Jordan Peterson but for any person in this world. We should not make anybody our savior. But become our own owner of our minds. Thank you!

@williammclelland2216

Жыл бұрын

Forgive me but this sounds an awful lot like a Jordan Peterson quote 😂

@Clintthecoolguy

Жыл бұрын

You are so right. I cannot stand Gurus of any kind. I find those people to be off-putting, always.

@champagnecocaine569

Жыл бұрын

The fact you have to say this is a joke

@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722

Жыл бұрын

@@champagnecocaine569 Its a joke yet it is not. Especially when the line "trust no one" has an even bigger meaning

So far, I like him. He’s encouraging. The “clean up your room and make it beautiful” suggestions are simple. I haven’t heard him talk about political issues so, I’ll just stop there - take what I need and leave the rest.

@belindamay8063

2 жыл бұрын

@ If only.. !!!

@user-jt6rh8xy6n

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t go any further, but if you do be aware of the fans that think everything he says is “profound” simply because of his credentials, he gives some great advice but when he discusses politics he falls flat on his head and says something REALLY brazenly dumb but no one will challenge it and Jesus Christ I’ve never seen a fan base that all think they’re all philosophical geniuses. Something I really agree with is when Pakman says his fans take themselves way too seriously, they really do to the extent that they take the most niche arguments and present them with filler. Overall I think he’s a pretty nice guy but don’t fall into the same hole done of his Fanbase has. He does bring up really sound and thought provoking arguments in terms of philosophy but trust me, he’s not the next “Socrates” or “Plato” like some people see him as. I would say talking with him would be interesting depending on what it is.

@Dina_Darling

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Thank you. I appreciate your reply. This is the reason we’re in the boat we’re in now. The fanbase or cult culture, I’ll call it. It’s dangerous.

@waylonk2453

2 жыл бұрын

Kudos for stopping at the extent of your knowledge

@user-jt6rh8xy6n

2 жыл бұрын

@@waylonk2453 Let me guess, you have extensive knowledge on philosophy because you watch KZread videos? Or do you have actual credentials?

Your points are valid. The main problem and point that you exclude is that Peterson knows exactly what he is doing to his fans/followers. His die-hard fans/followers are emotionally invested and more rational points or facts would not change many, if any, of them.

@bereal6590

7 ай бұрын

He is a cult leader and they're in the cult

Honestly very good, I had become a devoted fan as you say and my relationship has been suffering because of it. She kept saying I was worshipping him and I kept denying it. She wasn't familiar with his work and generally she communicates with feelings instead of facts which doesn't resonate with me because I'm slightly autistic as well. You've just explained very clear why my devotion is indeed wrong and potentially dangerous, thank you for that. I will do my research and diversify my sources and try to do better

@whitneyanders5945

Жыл бұрын

What a great comment and if only all the JP fanboys thought like you.

@maartenkeus8627

Жыл бұрын

@@whitneyanders5945 we did end up breaking up anyway lmao, but yeah, never be loyal to anyone or anything except God

@JS-mn4xs

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry you broke up but to be honest as a woman if my boyfriend were to listen and admire Jordan Peterson I would break up with him too. Coz it's a very thin line to him becoming a mysogynist. Im sorry if this baffles you but as a woman I don't see much difference between Andrew tate and Jordan Peterson. I certainly think he is an authoritarian.

@felsenmeer3004

6 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/eKF8mayOlbm3kps.html

This seems to be more of a criticism of “Peterson followers” and less about Peterson as a public figure. Peterson also specifically speaks about how tribalism is bad for society. The fact that his followers have created a tribe amongst themselves goes against the information Peterson is attempting to spread.

@advictoriams

2 жыл бұрын

Hes right about tribalism. It's cancer. This whole "left" "right" nonsense is just that

@diegolainfiesta

2 жыл бұрын

If you are a Peterson "follower" you did not understand Peterson.

@SolidSiren

2 жыл бұрын

You're referring to Petersons NONfollowers. The ones who created a tribe are those who think he's a Republican. Or even right wing. His actual followers aren't like that.

@SolidSiren

2 жыл бұрын

@@advictoriams EXACTLY. EXACCCCCTTTTLLLLYYYYYYY.

@advictoriams

2 жыл бұрын

@@diegolainfiesta I'm not. I find his insight into psychology fascinating, but I don't "follow" him and vehemently disagree with his other points. But yeah. I still stand by there being no such thing as left and right, but instead that tribalism has run rampant in society

And it's also a philosophical topic. It's not solely a political question. Socrates was a Philosopher not a politician despite talking about topics that overlapped into the political sphere.

@WTHFX

4 жыл бұрын

But by contending with political ideologies, and in so doing demonstrating your own, do you not become political? Even if Jordan took a position that was strictly not imbedded in any particular ideology (e.g. "We are living in a Simulation"), it would, by its opposition to the political, become political, regardless of his intent.

@TheDcraft

4 жыл бұрын

WTHFX is he demonstrating political ideologies or philosophical ideologies that happen to overlap with many peoples political ideologies as my Socrates example should have highlighted.

@ejaganjac7085

4 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@12345nadine

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDcraft Well if it overlaps with many people's political ideologies, and many people become mobilized because of it, he's a political figure whether he sees it or not.

@TheDcraft

4 жыл бұрын

12345nadine public opinion has no bearing on what he chooses to identify as nor should it.

Jung would be horrified by JP, then he would just chuckle.

After my first breakup I was going through some dark shit. I was at a point where I had a gun in my mouth and was ready to pull the trigger. Until one day I Jordan popped up on my recommendations. He talked about depression and basically the stuff I was going through. I don't judge people based on their political standpoint or views on things. Sure I don't agree with him on many things but his words helped me. I realized how stupid I was obsessing over this girl and slowly with his helping words and my own actions I got out of depression. Surely I'm not the only person he has helped? What scares me is that people like him surely have their views but Jordan especially is not pushing them on anyone, he is just trying to help people. I'm afraid that now because he is banned on everything, people who didn't have to die, died because they didn't have the possibility to get help.

@Tobitobiify

Жыл бұрын

What you say is so true!

@wonderwoman5528

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad you got through your depression

@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722

Жыл бұрын

At least other psychologists are learning from Peterson's mistakes: not mentioning politics in the 1st place. Apparently politics is a word to trigger someone in Peru imo

@JohnTavastian

Жыл бұрын

@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 People in the US care way too much about politics. To a point where they judge a person based on their political views

@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnTavastian Peruvians do but for some reason say it to one and someone will lash out at you physically and verbally. Not me of course but politics here are so rotten nearly everyone has become too jaded to even talk.

This is by far the best critique of Peterson I've heard. And as a big Peterson fan, I still think he picks up on some very good point. Expand your knowledge constantly.

@riquelmeone

2 жыл бұрын

I am failing to see this as a critique of Peterson specifically. He is not making any point on his views. This video's message is very general and can be applied to anyone. I am not really understanding the title of the video as technically, he could even be speaking about himself. You should question everything and everyone, not just Peterson.

@lefcso

2 жыл бұрын

@@riquelmeone Yeah, but not everyone has a fanbase like peterson's

@lukejones4129

Жыл бұрын

"Women are only happy if they are married and they have kids" hmmmmmm that's totally a good point he makes.

@aaad3552

Жыл бұрын

He never said that. he ment BETTER then having a rich job single.

@vanguard6937

Жыл бұрын

@@lukejones4129 When you only listen to what people say about him, instead of listening to what he says, you look like a dumbass. When you listen to what he says in such a way where you dont actually listen, but pretend to listen as to counter everything he says and pull things out of context, you look like a malevolent dumbass.

Still the fairest and most accurately articulated critique of JP on the internet.

@KAWAIIBEATZ

2 жыл бұрын

on god

@freeman7079

2 жыл бұрын

Contrapoints had a pretty solid take, as well.

@batukhan1

2 жыл бұрын

@@freeman7079 philosophy tube did better.

@poopoohead10

2 жыл бұрын

It was a little redundant. Maybe people identify with his philosophy and framework along with his advice making positive changes in their life. Being critical of his ideas is encouraged. When you do you separate the fact from opinion you see that a vast majority is referencing studies and statistics and science. When he does share his opinion hes pretty clear that that's his own perspective. The fact that he's eloquent enough to make sense and seem reasonable enough to his followers is a signal that not only are people benefiting from, or relating to his "simple"(I'd say sometimes abstract) advice, but also the philosophy that informs it.

@gdjhd1700

2 жыл бұрын

But the main point of the video is, that JP fans are acting wrong and ignorant. I didn't get the critique of JP, except that he says that he isn't a political person.

Thank you for your critique. I'm still favorable of Jordan Peterson yet you have me something to think about. It's too easy to assume that what we hear is absolute. The "one answer to end all questions". You may be a factor in the culture war and despite that I see value in your way of countering assumptions. Thank you.

@meljay5660

Жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you. I also found the comments here refreshing. It is comforting to know that there are more people who choose not to remain on one side or another and have no regrets on questioning even if they do take a lot from Peterson.

I recently had an argument with a friend because he was going down to throw eggs at Peterson during one of his events. I couldn’t understand why he would want to do that and he started going on about him being this far right anti-semite who was no different to hitler. I was shocked and asked him to point me in the direction where i can find this stuff out. I still cant find where he has said anything wrong. To blame him for his fanatical followers is totslly wrong. I don’t understand why people hate he soo much. And yes SJW’s are annoying as hell.

@leoooo3204

Жыл бұрын

Weak people that are not able to accept any other different opinions are annoying. It is not they but their weakness (for example, weak self control, laziness) make them annoying as hell

Groupthink is dangerous and self limiting . I suspect many of these young males lack a meaningful relationship with an older male in their own life and Peterson fills a void .

@Atmixka

2 жыл бұрын

And they become so woke and begin attacking those who oppose their grandmaster, Peterson.

@commentdeleted7943

2 жыл бұрын

He just a refugee for the lost men alienated by a society telling them they aren't to succeed because their past generations did and oppressed everyone else

@lamentingtaco5850

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't watched the video yet, but I agree to this statement fully because I'm one of those males. For anyone like me, don't learn from one source, do the research and don't make a cult from any one person. I love Jordan Peterson but at the end of the day you aren't him and you don't have to be him to be good, just try every day to be a better version of yourself.

@lukerupolo4390

2 жыл бұрын

he literally said this.

I came in thinking this dude must be a dope, but he makes great points without outright attacking Peterson or his fans. I approve.

@fylondpettyloaf2972

5 жыл бұрын

Pakman is great. I am a devout Christian, a firm capitalist, and become fearful of anything socialist at this point in my life, be it outright Communism or Democratic Socialism (As Pakman is). In spite of the fact that I find his politics and cultural approach to have flaws, he is one of my favorite political commentators. Stick around; he is a well spoken, thought out, legitimate speaker.

@mysticmarble94

5 жыл бұрын

@@fylondpettyloaf2972 ... Ughhh .... Pakman is not a "" Democratic Socalist "" !!

@CockatooDude

4 жыл бұрын

@@mysticmarble94 That's right, he's a social democrat.

@mysticmarble94

4 жыл бұрын

@@CockatooDude He is indeed !! Same as Bernie and thats the only fucking thing so fucking frustrating with Bernie ... He is so fucking STUBBORN to insist on calling himself Democratic Socalist even tho his POLICY PLANS all correspond 100% to the ... Social Democratic Platform .... And not any kind of Socialism !! And for that right wing scum a little history lesson ! Look up "" SPD "" ... Look up what the S actually stands for and find out that they had been the NUMBER ONE political enemy of the Nazis and therefore fucking Hitler himself ! And I fucking had it with those right wing bastards not knowing ANYTHING about history or getting ANYTHING right about the world !

@UngoogleableMan

4 жыл бұрын

@@fylondpettyloaf2972 why are you fearful of socialism?

I’m that die-hard fan of Jordan; He has helped me grow into manhood in spite of my lacking father. You’ve made some really greats points that do make a lot of sense. I do need to do my own research on topics he mentions instead of just quoting Peterson as if it’s Gospel. Thank you good sir! Jordan is still my hero, but you’ve helped balance me out and I hope to never contribute to any distaste of Jordan by emotionally defending him, but I’m sure I’ve done it at some point. Wonderful analysis!

With all due respect. JP is on a self-realizing journey like everyone of us. And it has to do with ideology, politic issues, and universal knowlegde. Humanity has been ignoring the facts, unfortunatly. Thats why he is pursuing the religions, wich has a big and essential role in the human history. It has allways been a challenge to meet eachothers point of view. But today through people like JPs drive, we are being able to learn the spesific knowlegde and wisdom from the organic age. When humanity was peeking on highest reflection of life. Today we are also very much disturbed by the mass, and missinformation that are leeking everywere. I hope, and wish everyone a friendly and peaceful day.

@user-ye1fp1ee1k

Жыл бұрын

Religion had a bad role in humanity history. Not a positive one. Population control.

David Pakman, you impressed me with your objectivity coming from the progressive side. Your critique is not ad hominem and you give credit when due. Respect! I guess subscribing to the channel is the best way to give kudos on youtube so that's what I'll do!

@Atlas0622

4 жыл бұрын

@Stefan Slade he's a politcal commentator people get mad not his fault

@fionafiona1146

4 жыл бұрын

@Stefan Slade Given the alternative is to moderate so heavily as to border censorship, i apreceate the detractors. In person settings receive much more respect and get more smooth moderation than digitally possible.

@iambored8535

3 жыл бұрын

You’d be surprised at how logical progressivism can be. There’s a lot of media that paint conservatives and progressives as over-emotional and aggressive people, when there are actually people from either side that are very logical. I’m more left-leaning so obviously I’ll believe the left is a little more logical though.

@brandom1953

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree, subscribe is what I did.

Thank you. I thought i was going crazy with all people talking like he's the new Messiah

@chachichachi3557

2 жыл бұрын

😂

@misslala1377

2 жыл бұрын

He's just a narcissist who thinks very highly of himself

@tonimojo5859

2 жыл бұрын

@@misslala1377 yes and maybe no. He maybe over compensating found a niche and ran with it but trying to hold his own beliefs which people do agree with. But the problem is when people idolise a person instead of ideas they over look flaws and put people onto a pedestal.

@unclejunebug7178

2 жыл бұрын

Well he helped millions of ppl who suffered from anxiety and depression so there’s that…

@christhedemocrat

2 жыл бұрын

@@unclejunebug7178 True but just as the narrators states. He cloak his b.s. right wing, white male privileged ideology in certain universal truths. The universal truths and self help advice is the good part. He serves as a self help guru for the depressed, confused male racist, sexist and privileged. Think "Chicken Soup for Fascists"

Another thing a lot of his fanboys do: they assume that since they agree with Peterson, and without a doubt think of him as an intellectual god, that they too must be some sort of intellectual god, despite all evidence to the contrary.

@cadenzuehsow895

2 жыл бұрын

More so they don’t want to see him misrepresented because he is often misrepresented just at what made him famous the Kathy newmon debate that strawman effect

@no_special_person

2 жыл бұрын

How about both ya dinguses

@gaussminigun7095

2 жыл бұрын

holy projection there bud

@gaussminigun7095

2 жыл бұрын

what percentage of his fans are actually like this? what is "alot", are you sure this isn't an exaggeration?

@johnspence8141

2 жыл бұрын

@@gaussminigun7095 hit a nerve ?

So I like the general message here. "Think for your self". Its my first time here and ill definitely check out more videos to determine if i like what am hearing. Because i like how much you're trying to be objective. And thats what we're lacking today. On a different note I love Jordan Peterson and the way he thinks and comes to conclusions. And that he's not afraid to challenge and risk being "canceled" alot of what he says if you're listening carefully isnt actually political its social. And how this piece of politics will affect the social life. All these changes that are happening are happening way too fast. And with no regard or room for ppl to adabt to it. Its now or you're canceled. The main point that i want to say is that ppl on either end of the spectrum have become followers for the most part. Because we pushed for change too fast, it has cause ppl to seek leaders and worship them (for lack of a better term) because we've changed so much so quickly that we're lost and dont know what to really do. All in my humble opinion

I recommend the book "Don't think about an elephant" from George Lakoff. He explains why conservatives link psychology to politics, which really helped them win elections in many occasions

@suckieduckie

3 жыл бұрын

Kinda sucks that Peterson isn't a conservative then.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Wietse op de Weegh What would you say he is then?

@suckieduckie

3 жыл бұрын

@@naveed210 A classic English liberal. Individual freedom is the core value.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Wietse op de Weegh that’s nothing new then. That message has been drummed into society for the past 40-50 years. He’s just an LOA coach at the end of the day. His core message is; “there’s a bunch of people who are better operators than you, I’ll smarted you up. If your neighbour’s struggling, don’t worry as long as you’re ok. Leave those sensitive overly compassionate lefties to worry about that.” Man’s a psychopath.

@suckieduckie

3 жыл бұрын

@@naveed210 That's so far from what he actually thinks that it's painful to read. He has never said anything that's even remotely close to that. His entire philosophy is based on making the most out of yourself to eliviate some potential suffering for the people you hold dear. He says exactly the opposite of just letting your neighbour suffer. He only implies that if you can't get your own life in order, the odds that your goodhearted attempts to help your neighbour will backfire are very large. His core message is not "there are people better than you and I'll smart you up" He says "There are an infinite amount of creative endeavours and they each have a dominance hierarchy. Find the hierarchy in which you can excell". Als the 'Classic English liberal' is not something of the last 40-50 years. It's the embodiment of 200 year old enlightenment values.

Peterson: “This isn’t right! I’m not the messiah! You should all go home! You’re all individuals!” The crowd [in unison]: “We’re all individuals!” Me: “I’m not”

@alisonaizlewood475

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent Monty Python reference

@luvpiggery

4 жыл бұрын

He's not the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy, now GO AWAY!

@JeffRebornNow

4 жыл бұрын

John Lennon: "Don't follow me, don't look to the Beatles. I have no answers. If you want to change the world go change it yourself. Don't follow leaders." Lennon actually meant it. And Dylan ALWAYS rejected the box people tried to stick him in: "Don't follow leaders / Watch the parking meters."

@kublkun

3 жыл бұрын

This exactly.

@Lexrezende

3 жыл бұрын

Peterson don't want people finding their own way. That's why he sells recipes as a coach instead of acting like a psychologyst that helps people find their own truth, their own path in life.

All of this is even more true now. David nailed it here

Clear eyed view of what is good and not. Also, the best advice ever. Diversify your learning about the topics.

I like JP a lot. He has helped me with a lot of issues, but i totally agree with you. This needs to be heard. You captured something very important in this video and i commend you for that. Have a great day!

@jebwu8648

Жыл бұрын

He made a good point when he said to investigate and learn from the genius that Jordan Peterson learned from.

@berthamcdurtha8554

Жыл бұрын

@Greg Boyce (Horse shaman) he has learned more than you will, old little bastard

Honestly, I just like getting philosophical and personal advice from Kermit the frog 🐸

@brigwood7658

3 жыл бұрын

it ain't easy being green

@dustinakadustin

3 жыл бұрын

He really does sound like Kermit doesn't he🤣🤣🤣

@LaoZi2023

3 жыл бұрын

and Winnie the Pooh... "The Tao of Pooh" is a good book.

@Lizard1582

3 жыл бұрын

I was listening to something where it started playing of a clip of him speaking and I honestly though that person speaking before started "doing a voice" or something.

@johnnytocino9313

3 жыл бұрын

Omg. Thought i was the only one who thought that. Lol

What Peterson misses is that, the doing of individuals and the structure of family ARE political, if explicitly or not. They are derived from ideology, and if they are ordered from the top down, even moreso. Also, I do think that he encourages this kind of devotion. He does not outright deny being a kind of prophet - maybe it has become more extreme in those four years since the publication of this video -, and the way he sets up his channel etc. do inspire a sort of following that goes beyond anything reasonable.

0:18 What is the name of the video where Jordan was interviewed in this show? Can someone give me the link or at least the name of it? Please give me a KZread link if you have, i don't wanna get any virus.

As a JP fan, this is definitely the best critique I’ve seen. You’ve earned another subscription While standing up straight and cleaning your room aren’t novel concepts. They seem to be almost non existent within the KZread realm that many young people find themselves in. Thus, his importance in society lies within how he pushes those who are lost to become better, as a father figure but he should demand that these same young people explore alternative views. His ability to turn people away from BOTH the far right and far left should not be misunderstood and based on his views, he seems more Libertarian.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is he doesn’t clearly state where he sits on the political spectrum. I have my suspicions whether he’s a real conservative and has decided to adopt the views he espouses because that’s where the money is and it’s trendy to bash the left who want social justice. I’d go further and say it’s too generous to even speak of him in political terms. At the end of the day he’s a law of attraction coach. His basic message is “take care of yourself, and if there’s other troubling stuff in society, don’t bother as long as you’ve got your own life in order.” That’s nothing new and we have plenty of that in society as it is.

@sebacool8

3 жыл бұрын

@@naveed210 “take care of yourself, and if there’s other troubling stuff in society, don’t bother as long as you’ve got your own life in order.” - That is not at all what he says, from what I've seen he just encourages to people not to be political activists as a substitute for some void of meaning in their life.

@naveed210

3 жыл бұрын

Redbanana and if you think that’s even remotely helpful, you’re a complete idiot. Western politics is in a mess, capitalism is on steroids, billionaires extract money from the system and avoid taxes, he even encourages tax dodging in 1 video, he’s a complete fraud. Along with Shapiro and Murray, these guys are pseudo conservatives.

@belindamay8063

2 жыл бұрын

Beethoven never cleaned his room. He said it would destroy his concentration.

As a Peterson fan I must say I am triggered. The truth will set you free. This video is amazing. Thank you for sharing.

@PapaSmurf11182nd

Жыл бұрын

Sarcasm aside (or at least from what I’m interpreting from you) I will give you props for acknowledging you being triggered

@JamieJamie2o2

Жыл бұрын

Make sure Peterson's shoes are well shoe shined.

@jrmoose22

Жыл бұрын

@@PapaSmurf11182nd I don’t think he is triggered, who would be?

@leoooo3204

Жыл бұрын

Chad 😂👌

So far having looked at multiple perspectives from different channels this is the most put together argument about jordan peterson I've seen.

ON POINT 🔥 not to discount a man's efforts and life works, but he should really work on the way he speaks anecdotally. It can come off extremely condescending to someone who actually is well rounded and well versed and open minded. I am still looking forward to the day that Jordan Peterson says, "let me rephrase that..." and correctly interprets Niche

Well David let me tell you something: something.

Remember when Jordan Peterson said electing Bernie would turn the US into Venezuela?

@DavidFernandez-co8ed

5 жыл бұрын

Really? I'm from Venezuela and that is funny xD

@innertubez

5 жыл бұрын

Colony Three lmao that doesn’t sound political at all 😂

@planebreach

5 жыл бұрын

He is not wrong.

@MrGrass97

5 жыл бұрын

SnowballWar Really? Because what shocks me most is that Peterson lives in Canada, where nearly all of Bernie’s platform is already implemented: universal healthcare, strong social safety net, paid medical and family leave, paid vacation time by law, a higher minimum wage, etc. and yet, astoundingly, Canada hasn’t turned into Venezuela. How come?

@YunisRajab

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrGrass97 because it's not a socialist country. It's a capitalist country with some socialist policies.

I mean he constantly says he's a clinical psychologist. Its fair to argue the political realm has traversed into his field. The fact he has insights and credibility into these topics does not mean he is at fault for how the political sphere reacts to them.

4 years on, David Pakman's content has kept improving, whereas JP has been repeatedly exposing himself like a top charlatan.

Big fan of JP here. What a nice constructive critique of Jordan Peterson! I always afraid of all the sheep people out there who don't question their beliefs or the people the follow. This is the reason I'm a subscriber of your channel.

@alanwattslightbulb6956

4 жыл бұрын

Thank u for being open minded!!! I personally don't like anything at all about Peterson, except in regards to Jung. The fact that u are at least open to listening to the opposite perspective on someone u like shows much maturity from u. I'll be honest, Peterson does not understand postmodernism. And him pushing so hard against it creates a strong division between self and other.

4 жыл бұрын

the irony, calling people sheep when you're a fan of a clear cultural authoritarian...

@ImVicBlanco

4 жыл бұрын

@ you clearly don't know Peterson's work.

4 жыл бұрын

@@ImVicBlanco people like you are fucking idiots...I've seen enough of him to know what he's about. the debate (if you can call it that) between him and Dillahunty pretty much shows he's a fraud on its own but having sat through a reading of his book its safe to say hes nothing but a demagogue.

@steamnamebbderinvade__

4 жыл бұрын

@ kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6Cm0rWpp9vNh9o.html

About 1,5 years ago my interest in JP began. I ate everything raw and the self-help material was incredibly appealing. I think you are basically spot on in this video. 6 months ago, I would maybe have disagreed more with you, but as I've recently realised that my approach to his viewpoints was way to uncritical I started challenging everything he said and found myself disagreeing with several of his political opinions. I am a leftist but I do have a more conservative leaning idea of some social policy issues and agree with JP on probably the majority of his opinion although I think his way of presenting his opinions is flawed. I really think you are a great input these internet politics and I think you do a good job at taking the moderate left stance which I think many of us reasonable rational young people identify with.

@lewisbilly12353

4 жыл бұрын

Well like, what do you disagree with and why didn't you do that originally? I feel as if many ppl say "oh I disagree with much of what he says" without saying what they actually disagree with.

@GPlusZGaming

4 жыл бұрын

My brother has been a drug addict since he was a teenager. He never finished high school, grew up, moved on, and had a family. For years and years, he sat and lived off of our mother and in that time period from 17-34 years of age had MAYBE three jobs. None lasted very long an he was even arrested for stealing from one. Anyways, back in November my mom wasn't helping him and he basically had no choice but to go to treatment or the shelter. Well, he choose treatment. So far he has done great and I am very proud and happy for him. However, he's always known I'm a strong liberal. We've always just agreed to disagree. Then all of the sudden, he starts telling me he's a Democrat. He said he couldn't stand Trump and would try to engage me in political conversations that always bashed Democrats for strange reasons in my mind, but I just kept asking him to quit trying to discuss it with me. This week though has been particularly bad. He started on his "abortion is murder" tangent and started regurgitating old, flawed Ben Shapiro arguments on me and I called him out and told him to quit trolling me, I have two kids, am very sick, and am under enough stress. I don't want to argue. There is no way I am going to agree with him. I am 37 and voted for Gore the year I turned 18! I'm the liberal in the family always have been and everyone knows it, but I don't discuss it with those that don't agree with me. Anyway, when I finally got annoyed and asked him to stop, he flipped a lid!!!😠 He started calling me horrible names, said he was "cutting off communication with me because I am deranged", he twisted things I had said and called me a racist for being pro choice? It really hurt my feelings. I may have shot a few blows back, but NO name calling and NO low blows. Anyways, I remembered he had called me earlier in the day and told me he had tickets to an upcoming Jordan Peterson event and asked if my husband would like to go with him because he was also taking my mom and younger brother. I finally got around to finding out who the heck this JP is and everything is making so much sense now. Plus, he lied to my mom and said he's not political, just a motivational speaker that was responsible for my brother getting clean. Now, I am so upset that my entire family will be brainwashed AND I really do love my brother and don't want to fight with him! I just appreciated your comment and thought you might have some advice for dealing with people in this. If not, anyone feel free to let me know your thoughts on the best thing for me to do! Everything is obviously delicate with recovery. The upsetting thing is that my brother is actually a very smart guy. I am just blown away by how he can be so fooled by this man. I also don't like the manipulation of "we are on the same side here", and then proceeded to follow it up with either made-up nonsense or obscure strange things certain liberals have said. Oh well, if anyone made it through that, thanks. If not, it was cathartic none the less! 😂

@Sacremas

4 жыл бұрын

@@GPlusZGaming Alison you should really learn to split up your paragraphs more. Stream-of-thought is cool and all, and authentic, but it makes it really hard to read something that long lol. Split it into like four paragraphs and the odds of someone actually making it through rather than giving up because their eyes were drifting between lines as opposed to them not caring becomes better. Regarding Fish's split with Peterson (if you'd call it that even); what is really ironic about that is that Peterson argues that exact thing that Pakman is here, that you shouldn't take anyone at face value, and you shouldn't adopt someone's entire philosophy, as big of a genius Jung was and how much Peterson admires him, I highly doubt he adopted 100 % of the man's character. Yet a lot of Peterson fans does pretty much that...

@GPlusZGaming

4 жыл бұрын

@@Sacremas Okay, good suggestion. I am actually an educated writer, but didn't realize that internet comments were supposed to be structured. It makes sense now that you say it! I guess I just don't normally write super long ones and hadn't thought about it. 😂 Anyways, I appreciate your suggestion and will start separating paragraphs! Thanks! 😊

@thegiftedteacher

4 жыл бұрын

Alison Self Wow, that is quite the story. Thanks for sharing!! It’s terrible that your brother can’t seem to withdraw a bit from his devotion to Peterson. I like Peterson myself...though I agree with nearly all the critiques delivered in this video. The self help stuff is obvious, but he delivers it in a way that inspires one to actually take action. He’s helped me immensely overcome some pretty bad heartbreak. Nonetheless, I feel for you because I know how persuasive his ideas are-if you aren’t already equipped with a certain amount of critical thinking to start with, the ideas can sweep you in unchallenged. It’s definitely helpful I think to be familiar with other thinkers: Jonathan Haidt, Sam Harris, Richard Wolff...

Well said!

First of all great video, nowadays it's hard to find well done constructive criticism and I don't want to be the type of fan that ignores the "ugly side" of the things I'm passionate about :) Although I already agree with most of JP's views and ideas, what makes him stand out for me is the insane development of his personality. Most people criticising him especially for the way he presents his views don't take into consideration what his position in the public discourse means for him as an individual and the way he handles it. The people and ideologies who oppose him the loudest are exactly what he himself sees as the greatest danger for society at the moment (e.g. the whole "Cancel Culture" phenomenon). I would go insane if I had to "fight off" what I'm most scared or concerned about every single day, and it's very easy to fall into a pit of self-righteousness which I think JP didn't. I think the early confrontations he had with these aggressive people from the far left end of the spectrum are a bad example and i'm sad that they still get referenced to show what kind of person he is. No one could have been perpared for such a situation and I actually think he still did a great job considering that. However, he always tried to distance himself from these "tribalistic tendencies" and adapted the way he handles the harsh and often just unreasonable opposition he gets. So even under these circumstances, he always remains civil and reasonable in arguments and in the way he presents his points. I have just never seen him "abuse" his rhetorical skills to push some narrative he doesn't really believe to be the truth. "Always telling the truth, no matter what" is even one of the virtues he sees as most important for every individual human being and society as a whole. Simlutaneously, getting away with not telling what oneself actually believes to be the truth is one of the biggest problems with political and other public figures today. We see it way too often that politicians or other people with substantial power at their hands either willingly or unwillingly ignore flaws and problems in their own views, just because it is easier than to do the hard work and really think through their take on some of the complex subjects JP focuses on. Many public figures and especially most politicians today run the strategy of investing less time to really question and refine their own points of view, but if inconsistencies are found and their views are challenged, they balance it out with rhetorical skill and charisma so enough people will still believe them. JP already has his arguments mostly in order and knows the reasoning behind them in and out, that's why in some cases it looks so easy for him to defend them. But he still goes into every argument or interview with the actual intention of finding out the big truth that emerges from everyone's own little piece of truth, he really tries to understand the background and motivations behind other peoples' oppinions. I just really get the impression that JP is one of the few public figures who "actually care". He challenges other points of view not just to propagate and justify his own, but out of real concern because he genuinely feels that some of them are very dangerous for everyone involved. His views just become more popular and accepted in the process because they are seen as a better alternative in many cases. He's still certainly not perfect and nobody sould mistake his teachings for the word of god himself, but he is one of the very few people in this age really trying to get the whole of society to a better place. And if he's wrong with some things in the process, he would always change his mind when he finds out (which actually happened a few times), because otherwise what he's saying wouldn't be the truth to him anymore. I think the biggest problem with JP is the most problematic effect of modern media that even he can't escape, anything can be framed in almost any other way. Some of the moments he loses himself a bit in arguments or interviews just get taken out of context and simultaneously -Serve as fuel to be consumed by his hardcore fans (e.g. overly edited videos like "This MOTIVATIONAL SPEECH by JP will CHANGE YOUR LIFE" or "Dumb Feminist OBLITERATED by JP") -Are put in a more populistic and tribalistic context by his "enemies" (like some of the scenes also shown in this video where he verbally "fights off" these people harassing him after lectures) And all he can do about that is to get a bit better at not giving people on both sides of the fence these opportunities to untie his well-chosen words and sentences and abuse them for their agendas and ideologies, I think he's already made great progress there over the years... P.S. sorry for posting such an enormous essay nobody will read after being 4 years late to the release of the video but that's kind of my thing xD

@faasramaekers

6 ай бұрын

I read it, I agree, I think this video also tries to frame it like he's becoming popular because he wants to and he's narcissistic. But I don't agree with that, I think he's popular because he's indeed trying to make the world better.

I think Peterson himself would agree with you to a large extent. Title is misleading.

@Yoda-wf6bu

3 жыл бұрын

Why is the title misleading if he agrees there's a problem with himself.

@drewnarr5171

3 жыл бұрын

Jar Jar Beast the video is about fanboy culture and not Peterson. So, the title is misleading because before you click it, it looks like it’s going to be ripping apart Peterson, not his followers

@zootsoot2006

3 жыл бұрын

Left wingers see everything as political, so of course they see the view that politics is not everything as political. This is precisely what Peterson is talking about when he brings up ideological possession, it's non-refutable because there is no space outside of their ideological position to see anything beyond it.

@love.flower.chainsaw

3 жыл бұрын

@@zootsoot2006 Does that make you a clear headed, non-ideological right winger? The fact that you're targeting a side says a lot about you and how you view people on "the other side."

@zootsoot2006

3 жыл бұрын

@@love.flower.chainsaw I'm not 'targeting' a side, again the ideological possession. I'm explaining a phenomenon. Modern day 'right wingers' are quite happy to interact with left wing ideas, examine them and come up with reasons they're wrong. I've yet to hear a left winger ever even begin to bother doing that with the other side's ideas (Pakman's the closest there is tbh). There's always too much emotion, starting off from the point of disagreement and then justifying that disagreement usually by means of tutting, eye rolling and cynical sniggering, not appeals to cold reason. The facts are there, as Jack Dorsey himself said, more right wingers follow left wingers on Twitter than vice-versa. I'd call myself centre-right but read the Guardian everyday, just in case they really do have something important to say with which I can agree commentary wise, and occasionally they do, but mostly it's just moralistic hand waving and self righteousness. In other words, pseudo religion, or ideological possession.

Thank you. He's very disingenuous and evasive. Just recently, he actually came down on Kavanaugh and then back tracked within seconds of his fan backlash into "I could be wrong, it's complex"

@brotlowskyrgseg1018

5 жыл бұрын

He's an expert at selling his obscurantism as nuance, which makes it super annoying for anyone to argue against. But it is a really convenient when you want to build a large internet following, since everyone can just tell themselfs that what he "actually ment" just happens to be their own personal point of view. Centrists: "People who say Jordan Peterson is a bigot just take him out of context." Actual Nazis: "I love everything you say, Mr Peterson, but what exactly is your view on the jewish question?"* *Note: Not implying anything here, the amount of people who regularly ask this sort of questions during his talks and livestreams is surely entirely coincidental.

@heinzguderian9980

5 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of when he answers a question and doesn't explain it, instead saying "It's very complex but that's just how it is." Bullshit.

@keiranmorrisart

5 жыл бұрын

i dont know what you are saying but i know it doesnt make sense and is purposefully unclear , guilt by association ???? in a sentence whats your point ?

@chrimony

5 жыл бұрын

@Brotlowsky: Leftists: "Nazi!" "Bigot!" "*phobe!" "Racist!" "You're a white male!"

@phiwokuhleqwabe2097

5 жыл бұрын

@@chrimony who here has said anything about white men?

Thnk you David for disecting Mr. Peterson's philosophical advise as opposed to his tapping into the anti-victimizing of a generation of a disenfranchised youth. You're incredible because you go into this unafraid of the outcome of some of the more beneficial things he has to say, I think the same, without the anger and he leads you down an emotional path of well advised philosophy but the answer is always emotional.

would love to see a debate with the both of you

@brandom1953

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for saying this, now I don't have to.

For a couple of minutes I was on the fence about this video. But towards the end he‘s making an immensely important and intelligent point. I recommend to watch the entire clip.

1:40 Collectivism isn't associated with leftism. The collectivist/individualist idea is independent from the left/right axis. For example, you can be a far left individualist (Ex: Anarcho-communist) or a far right collectivist (Ex: Fascism) Great video, though. Best criticism of Peterson that you've made to date. I always appreciate when you explain your thoughts at length.

@lewisbilly12353

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, there are left and right socialists.

I’m just wondering, does anyone know if JP has made a response video to this critique?

I am a so called “Peterson fan” and I absolutely loved the video. There are more sides to the story and I still love the man for what hè does but This point of view is extremely valuable to me. At the same time I would argue to be cautious about generalising Peterson “fans”. There are a lot of Peterson fans who are Much more selective and nuanced in “defense” of his ideas than this video Seems to claim. Thanks for the insight.

@antygona-iq8ew

Жыл бұрын

Well fans are you are in minority, unfortunately. Every time I questioned what Peterson said under one of political videos on KZread I got such intense, aggressive response. Majority of people would immediately jump to insults. Going through the comments section itself it sometimes scary itself, the contempt towards those who debate Peterson is very apparent. The language itself is very combative like, set for confrontation and fight.

@wescuijpers8946

Жыл бұрын

@@antygona-iq8ew very true, but That is what anonimity of internet does. In real life those people most likely wouldn’t react That Sharp. Its like gaming community automatically Gets more toxic. Eye contact and physicality is essential for empathy.

@brandom1953

Жыл бұрын

@@wescuijpers8946 Bingo

"Jordan Peterson isn't political." Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England, lol.

@cycillak4918

4 жыл бұрын

Your majesty! The neo-marxists are invading!

@nicholasmaniccia1005

4 жыл бұрын

So politics was literally invented as way of solving human issues through state affairs in the European middle ages. These issues Peterson is talking about has existed before then. The only reason why Peterson is brushing up against politics is because they have entered his realm not vice versa. So if my roommate throws a Superbowl party and I chill in my room the whole time and come out to do my normal stuff, by your logic I am a football fan.

@nicholasmaniccia1005

4 жыл бұрын

"people who take them to seriously tend to get embarrassed for having done so" - Pakman is right there, I do believe JP's followers do stop questioning his ideas and that's really they're fault because JP does say to challenge his ideas and act as an individual

@xthor86

4 жыл бұрын

@pjd412 And sovjet programs, and infitration during the cold war.

@ProvocativePixels

4 жыл бұрын

@@nicholasmaniccia1005 and you missed the point. That he claims to not be political. Just like he claims not to like equality of outcome when he literally told Joe Rogan that more women should sleep with incells because a small portion of the men are having all the sex. Not only is that blatantly ignorant, but it's equality of outcome.

He doesn't "believe" in hierarchies hes simply identifies their inevitability existence in our lives and explains how to best operate in those hierarchies and that is competence scaling... misinterpretation.

@xxwaldi

3 жыл бұрын

correct.

@xxwaldi

3 жыл бұрын

he also is not anti-egalitarian. he actually says the opposite. he is for equality of opportunity.

@HalinazDziecmi

3 жыл бұрын

@@xxwaldi Yeah he is but he also insist that the left is just a bunch of neomarxsists trying to push equality of outcome. This caricature of the left that he then easily dismantles, which is not hard, makes underinformed people religiously vilify any kind of idea which has the word left or social associated with. This thing is my main critique of him, I generally like his takes on things but after watching his videos and then looking for these crazy left wing people and discovering good willing, reasonable people just trying to approach similar problems other way I found myself thinking that he mislead me in that regard. I hope people are curious enough to get out of this loop of thinking and find for example David's channel.

@HalinazDziecmi

3 жыл бұрын

@@crispinfornoff206 according to left he isn't precise, now I'm trying to get many points of view so I hope I'm not in a loop

@moegreene3192

3 жыл бұрын

@@crispinfornoff206 anybody who identifies Marxism as bad is probably poorly read, and I think 1 in 5 is probably an underestimate...intentional to make Marxism seem fringy and unworthy...read some of what Marx actually wrote and not the knock off co-opted material and you'll see it is insightful...also your last point is circular...concern yourself with how you so willingly rise to Petersons defense instead of reflecting on your process and looking around at some other ideas...like David's -which may be another loop, but they are his thoughts, hopefully...

good video. so many people get attached to the figure and fail to question the validity of what he's saying, which should be done. It's sad

You should have him back on and talk about this episode of yours. I’d love to watch that.

I think Peterson is so succesful (especially with young men) because he brings his message with a subtle, latent agression unnoticed by many.

@huizhechen3779

2 жыл бұрын

JP's avid fans notice and love JP's authoritarian aggression. His aggression is neither subtle nor latent. He's outright hostile to what he doesn't like and he dismisses what he disparages by attacking it with incomplete sentences and unfinished thoughts (his Alt-Right talking points) that his fanboys have memorized and think they have come up with: they don't realize that they're just being pushed into repeating JP's ideas without actually thinking about what he's saying and why he's saying it. He's a manipulator. It's just that simple.

@zigfridtijunelis616

Жыл бұрын

It's better to be a warrior in the garden, than a gardener in a field of a battle. It's not an aggression - it is not being harmless and agreeable. And if he is very passionate about some topics, so what? So is Michael Eric Dyson.

this is actually the best criticism of JBP i've come accross so far. unbiased and very fair. also, i wouldn't say peterson is such a guru cult leader, but rather a spiritual daddy to lost young men

@Patcannistan

5 жыл бұрын

Colin Labrie Gagné its not a criticism of him at all. Its a criticism of his fans and a problematic one in that; it lumps all his supporters into the young naive fan boy idol worshipper. Believe it or not there are informed people who support individualism, jungian analysis and mythological interpretation who appreciate peterson’s articulation!

@madhatter4173

5 жыл бұрын

@@Patcannistan he is not entirely wrong. Peterson himself repeatedly mentions how many young men come up to him thanking him for changing their lives. Also, don't ever scroll down the cesspit comment section of any video titled 'Peterson DESTROYS....'

@Eisenarsch

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Peterson is the original "Incel Whisperer".

@eclipsewrecker

4 жыл бұрын

Colin Labrie Gagné unbiased? How? It is criticism.

@eclipsewrecker

4 жыл бұрын

Swanky Butters wow you must not have understood the principles of the criticisms in the video.

Thank you for this video. Came here to "wash away" all the J.P. propaganda. :P I think he's (it's 2022 now) slowly falling into a trap of his own; taking himself way too seriously and becoming "a messiah of the youth". When you have that kind of following it isn't hard to do, I admit. I've been watching his videos 3-4 years now and the message is getting kinda lame. It has always made me cautious when there's somekind of fanaticism involved - whether it's a political figure, artist or mr. Peterson etc. It's a slippery slope and it gives me the chills. He CAN do good, I admit that, but he can do even more bad.

@KevinFromHPCustomerSupport

2 жыл бұрын

I understand the issues that come with fanaticism. What do you think could be a bad thing about JP's messages? I do not see it. Btw, this is a QUESTION out of curiosity, not a CHALLENGE.

He’s wants to debate not tell you how it is. If he’s wrong show him. Freud Nietzsche. It’s to start the conversation not be the law.