"Such large specialization is inefficient" Stellaris players with an entire planet only for paperwork: Hold my beer

@R.DeMora

3 жыл бұрын

I never do that on any of my Stellaris playthroughs, at least not when I play as any sort of human star nation. Centralization is a big risk if the specialized planet falls for any reason, so I try to make them as self sufficient as possible. Of course it's not possible to make all planets self sufficient by themselves, so any specialized system/planet always lies within my deep borders and always behind a tight defensive line.

@garlonschuman1014

3 жыл бұрын

@@R.DeMora if you make a fortress world on the border, then the ai will just focus on it for all eternity. Cadia will never fall

@zhufortheimpaler4041

3 жыл бұрын

@@garlonschuman1014 The Planet broke before the Guard did!!!!

@chazdoit

3 жыл бұрын

@@garlonschuman1014 Crisis can spawn inside your borders and snipe 2-3 planets before you can move your fleets to respond. Lets say you lose your big alloy producing planet = you're fucked

@halempyrion4406

3 жыл бұрын

@@chazdoit ah yes the alloy rock, whatever shall I do, not like i have 20 others.

The British Ministry of Magic in Harry Potter earns my vote for the most inept government: first it fell to a sadistic genocidal maniac without a fight, then 10 months later, its own security forces, along with that sadistic genocidal maniac and his minions, got annihilated by a group of teenagers and citizen militia when they tried take back a high school. How more pathetic can a government get?

@ihatecabbage7270

5 жыл бұрын

Lord Awesome magic?

@maxischew514

5 жыл бұрын

Oi, Where's you magic license m8?

@noco7243

5 жыл бұрын

Well to be fair it's not itself a government but a ministry, essentially just a part of the government but I see your point.

@mariakelly5

5 жыл бұрын

How about a country that elects a con man from New York State who has the world's worst toupee even though he claims to be worth 10 billion dollars?

@noco7243

5 жыл бұрын

@@mariakelly5 How'd you get that from a comment about Harry Potter? God, go back to your woke ass soy.

There’s one facet to the Hunger Games that no one talks about. It’s not just to create a sense of fear and dependence on the Capital, but, to create hostility between the districts so they don’t network. District 2’s girl murdered District 5’s 10 year old boy. Now they hate each other and don’t cooperate. That’s what they want with these games, to fuel hatred of the other districts. Then, that changed when Katniss mourns Rue and lays her to rest. That’s when the spell was broken.

@laju6398

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but when your goal is to create hostility between the districts your district shouldn't always win, quite the opposite you should make sure that district 1 never wins so you can play the " we're all in this together" card. But no, district 1 sends trained athletes against forced recruits and consequently wins most of the time, meaning they will always hate district 1 (or 2 but thats barely relevant) and never the others.

@Adam-wg2rf

8 ай бұрын

Yeah but do they realy see it has a sport or has a death penelty, if they saw it as a sport then yes but they don't.

@TheDropdeadZed

7 ай бұрын

@@laju6398 It's not always district 1 that wins tho is it. I think 1, 2, and 4 are meant to be the careers districts. But I'm sure a lot of the non-careers districts have had their fair share of brutal bloody kills between each other, e.g. district 8 tribute kills district 10 tribute in a particularly brutal or cold way, and now animosity between the two districts is increased.

@HansJuergen-ps8bt

7 ай бұрын

This is the same horrible logic as in the narrative. People are stupid, but not THIS stupid. Any antagnoy between districts will inevitably always be surpassed by antagony against the capital. And on timescales waaaaaay shorter than the Games were held. Many factors shorter. This giant logical error just overshines the entire narrative. The story is plain bad if regarded literary. Reasoning is non-existent. Collins is objectively a bad writer, without having any feelings to her or her narratives whatsoever. She even struggles with teen drama and is way out of her depth the second she steps into political drama, or any philosophical drama. Her characters are extremely relatable for the target audience though, probably because they are stupid, illogical and egocentric and act like arrogant, incompetent and reckless idiots. Oh well many teens and adults I know. Good political or philosophical drama does not engage in antics of this stupidity, in real political drama, characters like Katniss don't survive beyond the first chapter. Don't let me start on District 13. It's very light entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.

Honestly I just like to imagine that Panem is actually a pretty small country, something like a rather small US state, .... There isn't the sense of scale needed to have panem be the US, not even close. Not only does the district system not make sense in the context of a large country, but the districts are portrayed as being something like a large town or at best a small city. So I personally just ignore the American Panem idea and imagine Panem is actually a small nation that survived while others were devasted by some cataclysmic event. In that case the district system makes much more sense. District 4 being the only district at a sea/lake/ocean, district 12 at the only coal reserve location, ...

@juandiegocorton9778

3 жыл бұрын

True

@davidshillaker7578

3 жыл бұрын

Panem is America but severely flooded. California is gone, many of the eastern and southern states are gone. It's simply parts of America and portions of southern Canada

@jeffbenton6183

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe the idea that Panem consists of all the contiguous 48 states is just propaganda. Edit: Some commentators on George Orwell's classic "1984" believe that Airstrip One consists of only Great Britain, and the 3-way war for control of the entire World is just propaganda and the reader is never given reliable information on the political situation of the rest of the World. I'm positing that Panem is similar, though that sort of thing would be much harder for them to pull off given the geography of the region.

@devdixit2440

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidshillaker7578 It's still way too big, District 12 seems to occupy the entirety of the North East Coast, from West Virginia to New York to Maine. Yet it only has ~10,000 people living in it, irl, the area occupied by District 12 has over 80,000,000 people living in it. What are they doing with all that land? Why is everyone so spread out? Why is the population so measly?

@neolexiousneolexian6079

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's how I saw it too.

The best weapon in a dictator's arsenal is apathy. People don't rebel if they don't care. Give them enough freedom to be content, don't be needlessly cruel, and people will put up with all sorts of dystopian laws and practices.

@CaptainZlex

5 жыл бұрын

Hey that sounds like the United States

@Michaeljack81sk

5 жыл бұрын

Just like Huxley showed with Brave New World. Distract the population with an endless supply of consumerism and entertainment so they never think to ask questions

@galahad3195

5 жыл бұрын

@@CaptainZlex Beat me to it.

@Zergonapal

5 жыл бұрын

Which is why dictatorships have built in failure points. The more it tries to tighten its grip the more restless the populous gets. The better the government is at keeping all the populace happy the longer it will last, though the rot inevitably sets in at the top causing it to collapse.

@UncleMerlin

5 жыл бұрын

Thats how a dictatorship falls. If you give a population the taste of the good life, they'll want more out of greed. Example: Gorbachev improving conditionsin the soviet union leading to its collapse because of mass protests from its states wantingto break away.

I love how the fish-based economic area extends hundreds of miles inland.

@pavelthefabulous5675

4 жыл бұрын

It's just turtles all the way inland.

@mud4309

4 жыл бұрын

@@pavelthefabulous5675 Dude I wish. I live in Vegas and there is literally ZERO wild life aside from pigeons here. I've been fishing at Lake Mead for years and my entire family's combined efforts over the course of a dozen+ trips has yielded 3 fish, none of them even caught by me. We aren't even lucky enough to have rats here man. This place sucks so much ass even Nature decided to take a hard pass. Can't blame Mother Nature tbh

@mud4309

3 жыл бұрын

@wantafanta01 nope. Maybe out in Pahrump but in Vegas, while understandable, even Henderson which is relatively bumfuck nowhere to Vegas doesn't even have fun desert stuff like scorpions or snakes. Just pigeons I'm starting to think they're planning something..

@soakupthenoise

3 жыл бұрын

those maps are fanmade

@dazmaz1269

3 жыл бұрын

@@mud4309 I can attest to this claim

Panem: Lasts 75 years, mostly due to incompetence in everyone's case Highly specialized districts poorly using the environment Destroyed by rebels with no industrial base of their own, overturned in months. People hate the president Imperium of Man After 10,000 years still going Literal entire planets optimized for maximum efficiency Alien swarms, magical cultists, and civil wars can't bring it down. People die for the Emperor.

@Sarindanvelor

4 жыл бұрын

emperor created 21 demigod sons and even with ~half of them turning traitor they still couldn't take the imperium down

@SurprisinglyDeep

4 жыл бұрын

The Imperium of Man survives because the government on Terra actually cares about and supports the majority of the other planets in the galactic government when it comes to stuff like economic development and military defense

@Sarindanvelor

4 жыл бұрын

@@SurprisinglyDeep pretty much tbh you get a lot of crap with how slow and downright inefficient imperial bureaucracy can be but given the imperium's wide variety of planets as long as holy terra gets it's imperial tithes it's more than willing to allow for a pretty solid amount of autonomy from the various planets under the imperium aside from particularly necessary planets or those that are designated recruitment grounds for the astartes

@njnihal3049

4 жыл бұрын

.

@Subjagator

3 жыл бұрын

The Imperium is in this weird quasi-permanent state of simultaneous collapse, growth and somehow also stagnation. The only reason it keep going is there are probably billions of bureaucrats holding the entire thing together through the sheer power of paperwork or something. Hundreds of planets could get obliterated at the same time and everyone just shrugs and keeps going because there are millions more planets churning away. It gives a whole new meaning to the expression too big to fail.

Weirdly enough I was always under the impression that the "districts" were actually singular cities. Of course some were bigger than others but I never imagined them as being gigantic swathes of land. Throughout all the books, and the movies, I don't recall there ever being talk of multiple cities or villages in a given district. When district 12 is entirely wiped out it's just the one town being bombed.

@daniesmar

8 ай бұрын

i thought that even though districts were big, they were still single city states with a lot of empty land and maybe not even connecting among themselves. district 12 could be a fenced county in a state where there is nothing more than wilderness outside of the walled, single-city county

@Mr123Goog

7 ай бұрын

They are. Maps show them as regions to help us associate the districts with modern American states/present day regions in America. The district that produces cars makes more sense when you see it encompasses the area not only surrounding Detroit but also the rest of the Great Lakes/rust belt area. But they are just individual cities. That’s confirmed because every district has a town square that the entire district walks to for the reaping. The entire population of multiple cities fitting into one town square would be impossible.

@johnsai4074

7 ай бұрын

Yeah for some reason I always imagined district 12 as one city with a single coal mine lmao

@ShaggyRogers1

6 ай бұрын

@@johnsai4074 That's because it effectively is. The mine is probably rather large, but the entire purpose of the town that makes up District 12 is to dig coal to power the Capitol.

@ethank.6602

3 ай бұрын

That too and also panems population is estimated to be about only 1.5 million ​@@ShaggyRogers1

Are you suggesting that the Hunger Games cared more about young adult, emo, melodrama instead of logic?

@siddhantsharma7728

5 жыл бұрын

Only good thing to come out of Hunger Games was JLaw

@ItsScapeGoated

5 жыл бұрын

Mmmm nah not even her. She acts like a spoiled little child that needs to have attention gazed upon her any time she's in a room. The best thing from HG was Woody Harlson and he was already big before it.

@quentingilanian8045

5 жыл бұрын

Matthew Lee, yep

@roguishpaladin

5 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I'd consider that an in-world thing - malicious, simplistic government by design. Panem, or at least the capital, cared more about its melodramas than about a functioning nation. So long as the capital got what it needed, the rest didn't matter. The rest were too scared to put together meaningful resistance due to the idea of overwhelming martial superiority, until they realized that they could.

@sfs2040

5 жыл бұрын

@@ItsScapeGoated why? Because she speaks out against bullshit when she sees it? Get with the times, snowflake, the patriarch dominated society us men have benefited from for centuries is over. Women deserve an equal say

It’s just that the Resistance group usually has a whole lot of plot armor.

@alexs_toy_barn

4 жыл бұрын

Bryce yeah the empire from star wars has all the resources a that an evil empire could ever need, thousands of ships and billions of troops, and they still can't beat a few hundred rebels with like three ships, all because of 'the force' aka stupid plot armor

@jimsaintruth4248

4 жыл бұрын

Give the rebels more credit than that, they had bases all over the galaxy and dozens of worlds secretly backing them.

@jtzoltan

4 жыл бұрын

@@jimsaintruth4248 I found out the size of the universe in Star Wars canon and it's ridiculous... it's supposedly (if I remember correctly) tens of thousands of worlds, maybe millions and the population of the galaxy was something ridiculous like 450,000,000,000,000,000,000 individuals. There's no bloody way to manage a single political unit like this but if they did in the form of an evil empire, it would crush what we saw of these rebels.

@gaspardduclos5203

4 жыл бұрын

@@jtzoltan It is indeed ridiculous, but the other way around: a typical galaxy would contain about 100 billions planets. This "Galactic Empire" doesn't deserve this title, in reality it would be consider a micro-state in galactic diplomacy. And the number you just give, 450 billions of billions of people, is the population that 5 Dyson swarm (so 5 stars) would contain. So, again, ludicrously small. And indeed it is truly impossible to manage an empire of this size with imperial bureaucracy.

@jtzoltan

4 жыл бұрын

@@gaspardduclos5203 thanks for the response! The way they have the SW universe set-up, isn't it that our team are "the Rebels" and hence at least nominally the planets rebelling were beholden to the Empire, though that doesn't mean they are able to marshal control or extract taxes from them. It seems that all known star travelling civilizations are under the aegis of the Empire, no? Except some pirate planets on the frontiers. In any case, we agree. An Empire of this size is absurdly impractical though maybe through AI, some bureaucratic functions could be administered and coordination across the empire imaginable. What we see of the Rebels is so pathetically weak in comparison to what the Empire would have, and with the new SW films, the story is so trivial in the context of a Galaxy worth of systems and the kind of war that would be fought if indeed a substantial share of systems rebelled.

I'd argue Divergant's government might be even worse. Let's promote equality and end differences by artificially segregating the populace into personality types as envisioned by a 12 year old with no concept of psychology, give ALL power to ONE of those, and make all the aggressive jerks their own faction. THIS will make people feel equal to each other!

@paulmahoney7619

Жыл бұрын

It could be a scathing critique of how flawed the idea of meritocracy is, if it were clear what it was supposed to be.

@tyrongkojy

Жыл бұрын

@@paulmahoney7619 I mean, MAYBE? But as you said, no clue what it's even supposed to be. If it turned out at the end the true maker of all of it was in fact a 12 year old who SOMEHOW was trusted with such a thing, say someone just found the kid's diary and ran with it, or something, thinking it was the work of some genius, that'd make it better, because no joke, it comes across as the psychological understand of a preteen.

@paulmahoney7619

Жыл бұрын

@@tyrongkojy yeah, it could work as a satire of the circular logic and pigeonholing inherent to the concept, if it was obvious what the point was.

@weldonwin

Жыл бұрын

Always remember, if something in a YA novel seems painfully dumb, that's because the author is spending all their actual energy and creativity setting up the single, most important aspect of any YA Novel, that trumps absolutely everything else: The Love Triangle! Does the setting make no sense and the evil regime punch itself in the dick constantly and so hard it should collapse long before the spunky teenage heroine is even born? Doesn't matter! What's REALLY important is which bland as bread, generically handsome male character she wants to shack up with, and will spend the entire story agonising over.

@tyrongkojy

Жыл бұрын

@@weldonwin Bonus points if there's some weird, inherently creepy aspect to said love triangle, like one character going after a blatantly underaged character, or one actually being hundreds of years old while still acting like a teen. Hey look, Twilight!

3:00 Fish is an especially grating example because it means they are depleting fish supplies in the pacific while not fishing the Atlantic at all.

@evannibbe9375

2 жыл бұрын

It is a fish farm if it is to go 100 miles inland, which means the foodstuffs remain at the same level all of the time

@DaDunge

2 жыл бұрын

@@evannibbe9375 No it doesn't what are you talking about.

@devdixit2440

Жыл бұрын

That wouldn't be an issue. Panem's population is tiny, somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5 million, spread out across a continent, and most of them are malnourished, so they can't be eating fish that often. A couple million people eating fish irregularly isn't enough to deplete the Pacific's fast fish stocks. The Pacific has a lot of fish, even intensive fishing across the Pacific to feed over 2 billion poeple (mostly in Asia) hasn't yet depleted fish stocks. Panem couldn't do it alone.

@appa609

7 ай бұрын

​@@devdixit2440Honestly what happens on the American side is largely irrelevant. China by itself takes the vast majority of pacific fishing each year.

@alannajones330

7 ай бұрын

​@@appa609China might no longer exist as a country in the world of the hunger games. There is no references of other countries in the books. This suggests a total collapse of the global order. Somehow North America suffered a major depopulation. It would not be surprising if Asia had similar events.

'The Capitol's main export is a sense of smug superiority'. LOL.

@williamt.sherman9841

5 жыл бұрын

that's also what San Francisco's primary export is also- that and fish

@TheColourCyan

5 жыл бұрын

@@williamt.sherman9841 don't forget postcards

@listener709

5 жыл бұрын

So california

@Jac0bIAm

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha yeah that line genuinely made me laugh out loud.

@MazaAzi

4 жыл бұрын

You just open a shipping crate and hear a loud "AH HUUUH."

"Unless it can go on a burger, I don't want to hear about it." Any heavy metal can go on a burger if you aren't a coward.

@DickBanton

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but I bet most of them don't taste good.

@justnoob8141

4 жыл бұрын

Richard Banton but surely hardcore

@isaacvitela5131

4 жыл бұрын

i tried the heavy metal burger... and my innards are bleeding... is that normal?

@silliussoddus1449

4 жыл бұрын

System of a Down - Chop Suey.

@noneofyourbusiness3288

4 жыл бұрын

holds out a lump of Thallium (wearing gloves of course) - "I dare you"

"Is turning California into a giant fish farm a great idea?" Yes

@Bobby3OOO

3 жыл бұрын

You clowns probably live in nowheresville.

@IgnoredAdviceProductions

3 жыл бұрын

Guys I found the Californian

@bird2049

3 жыл бұрын

California is the best state.

@lakeviewcity2226

3 жыл бұрын

@@bird2049 Not with Newsom as governor

@MachineMan-mj4gj

3 жыл бұрын

@@bird2049 Well, it was, about sixty years ago.

"-And why would you use a bow and arrow in a modern war?" _"Well what we really like about arrows is that they go an awfully long way, terrific range, arrows. And uhm, they're so penetrating. They penetrate into the Frenchmen and do them in. And that's what we like about arrows."_

@yesaterisk5641

3 жыл бұрын

A man of culture.

@Deepranger930

3 жыл бұрын

In Serbia they've found that arrows will penetrate through sandbags when bullets won't.

@basambinsohailraja1801

3 жыл бұрын

@@Deepranger930 those must be some rigged ass sandbags then xDD

@rextheroyalist6389

3 жыл бұрын

Beigeboi knows what he's talking about

@moonlight4665

3 жыл бұрын

Where's this quote from?

To sum it up, Capitol needs the districts more than the districts need the Capitol

@juliustegelhus7822

4 жыл бұрын

When it comes to resources and food, this applies even now. Urban areas need rural areas more than the other way around.

@kinsmansteve

4 жыл бұрын

The districts don't NEED the Capitol at all, as far as I can see.

@ryanxu7981

4 жыл бұрын

Nice chiasmus

@ro45fan70

4 жыл бұрын

Capitol just produces only drag queens so it is quite useless

@josheydubs

4 жыл бұрын

The Capitol only Conquered and colonized the districts due to a need for resources, just like many other empires.

LOL, I love how Canada is just "the wilds."

@stev3548

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah well we just like it that way. Keeps the tourists out.

@RaptorTroll360

4 жыл бұрын

"There be maple syrup"

@user-nf9xc7ww7m

4 жыл бұрын

Hunger games 5 - True North Prime Minister Sean Trudeau invites refugees from Panam to Canada - the true north, strong and free...and send the RCMP to kick dystopian arze. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🍺🍺🍺

@amitkenan3878

4 жыл бұрын

@Brett Hazelton So he wants to turn the population into slaves?

@jessegirard8011

4 жыл бұрын

*wild maple syrup people noises*

I've always thought of The Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k as being a really good example of a dystopian government... which, despite its failings, is literally too big to fail. I mean, they have enemies who have legit tried to take it down and The Imperium has weathered them all.

@kylehankins5988

3 жыл бұрын

yeah, tI think its also that its pretty much in everyones intrest to keep the imperium around because even though it as an authoritarian hellscape (on most planets), if it were to collapse then tyranids orks and chaos would immedialty subsume the territory.

@tackytrooper

3 жыл бұрын

The Tyranids will likely be their ultimate undoing even if it takes thousands of years. The apex predators of the entire universe.

@arandomguy3288

3 жыл бұрын

@@tackytrooper laughs in necrons

@diamondmetal3062

3 жыл бұрын

The Imperium’s not horribly efficient, tbh. Their whole economic system revolves around the same thing the Capitol does: devoting their territories to a single specific industry. In fact, the Imperium’s probably worse in that regard since some of those industries include faith and paperwork. The reason it (kinda) works is because of the Imperium’s overwhelming size. You can work an inefficient system enough times and you can have the same rate of production as someone far more efficient.

@z3r0_35

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say it's too big to fail, because there is one key weakness to it all: it depends on the Emperor's continued existence. What if something happens that finally puts him out of his misery, like a mechanical failure of the Golden Throne, or what if some orks just drop a massive asteroid on his head? If ANYTHING happens to the Emperor, the whole Imperium collapses.

Even before watching the whole saga of The Hunger Games, I already knew that if District 5 cut the electricity line, the capitol (capital?) would be doomed.

@MrAsaqe

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately it is also where they stick the Bulk of the non career district Peacekeeper boots on. Plus the fact they were the richest non career district in being able to afford the most tesserae makes them less likely to revolt as they will share the same fate as District 13 with the dam becoming the big deluge as punishment

@tylersoto7465

2 жыл бұрын

The capitol has a hydroelectric dam

@TheRepublicOfDixionconderoga

8 ай бұрын

@@MrAsaqeexcept there are people in 13, it’s a nuclear power that agreed to the capitol which also has nukes to pretend-they-don’t-exist-and-don’t-rebuild-aboveground-and-don’t-nuke-eachother

@James-kd2qm

6 ай бұрын

@@TheRepublicOfDixionconderoga yeah but the other districts are not aware that people in 13 survived.

Panem geographically and politically makes more sense at a North Korean scale, small country divided into several dozen impoverished districts, ruled by a decadent capital city.

@IssyCasaude

3 жыл бұрын

Not sure why people assume Panem is continent size unless it is from the books. A single state or even the right county could hold it all.

@captainmarvelwilson508

3 жыл бұрын

No. They assume it is the size of the U.S. In fact, the country is established as a dystopian U.S. This has nothing to do with North Korea.

@hunterketch989

3 жыл бұрын

@@captainmarvelwilson508 he saying that the country would make sense IF it was the size of NK.

@IssyCasaude

3 жыл бұрын

@Deathsdayoff person No one said this wasn't set in the US. What I said was why do people assume it is the same scale of the US. Oregon to use your example, is in the US, but Oregon is not the SIZE of the US. A single US state is large enough for everything mentioned. I have looked for official maps and the closest I have found is something that looks like it is from a mobile game. the Video even mentions that there is no official map. only FAN MADE MAPS, which ASSUME that PANEM is most of the land area of the old US, pre-Apocalypse. My statement is simply my opinion that this makes more sense on a smaller scale, like a city state with vassals and not a continent scale empire. Even if "civilization" in the districts is limited to small pockets, it is very wasteful of natural resources, as stated in the video, which I agree with.

@SwordsmanMercenary

3 жыл бұрын

I think in the book in addition to wars there were a slew of natural disasters which resulted with parts of the continent flooded or unsafe to live. It's like it was reduced in size and population by the time the books begin

The most competent one surely is Oceania's Ingsoc. They have designed a system of government which makes rebellion completely impossible.

@MrCmon113

4 жыл бұрын

Not only is rebellion not impossible, it is encouraged - if only to then torture the rebels...

@Sluppie

4 жыл бұрын

Rebellion is created by the government, then controlled and squashed.

@marvalice3455

4 жыл бұрын

Actually ingsoc falls soon after the story, the book just wasn't about that. The point wasn't "heres how you defeat an authoritarian nation" it was "heres how bad it is for a regular person in an authoritarian nation"

@herrwagnerianer1739

4 жыл бұрын

@@marvalice3455 Where do you get that from? And don't tell me that the Newspeak appendix to the book is written in the past tense. That's a joke argument. Ingsoc's model of government seems to be perfect, and I don't see why it should ever fall.

@marvalice3455

4 жыл бұрын

@@herrwagnerianer1739 what. How about the direct word of the author? You realize that by saying it is perfect you are endorsing it? Even without the morality issue, which when it comes to government is a practical consideration, single party states don't last. The point of the book is how bad it is for a single person. The strategies they use on individuals would never work on an organized rebellion. Even if you could possibly afford that much personal surveillance on _everyone in the state_ you than couldn't react to information from said intelligence. An organized rebellion would eat ingsoc alive and spit it out. It would be ugly violent and unpleasant for everyone for decades, possibly centuries after, but that kind of authoritarian methods only works on populations that have been subjected for millennia such as China, and even that is starting to show cracks

So basically Panem is Capital: WORK OR DIE MY LIFE SUPPORT I'M DYING HERE!!

@PelinalDidNothingWrong

3 жыл бұрын

The Capitol became way too dependent on the Districts

Even if I mainly agree with this, I think that making each district rely on each other is exactly the point. I mean, if each district was making a little of everything, they could eventually become self-sufficient or at least, get the idea that they could. This makes the Capitol necessary, as it's the only thing spreading the different goods between the districts. At least, that's the whole idea. While districts effectively rely on each other to produce goods, the Hunger Games were made to fuel a constant hatred between them. The result is supposed to be "I hate the other districts because they killed our children, and I fear the Capitol because it's overseeing it". But of course, that's not how most of people see it. But that's the idea.

@captainmarvelwilson508

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t believe that. The only thing this Capitol even favours is cold sadism for the less fortunate.

@christopherbravo1813

3 жыл бұрын

that's the idea, but it fails spectacularly in execution.

@evevi4686

3 жыл бұрын

Thank God, someone with brains, that's exactly the idea

@christopherbravo1813

3 жыл бұрын

@@evevi4686 but it's still a horrible idea.

@antcig

3 жыл бұрын

@@evevi4686 , That doesn't work. There is still some necessary communication between the district, if only so that the goods produced go into each district. If the timber district rebel they can use this to secretly trade with the other district in order to get weapons, food, and since there is no capitol taxes on that black market, the exchange rate is better than anything the capitol can offer(hell why are not doing it without an open rebellion is beyond me). Worse, some district are in charge of the army/police. It's really strange that they don't think of removing the capitole and replace it with their own standard military dictature, especially since everyone want the Capitole dead. And all of this is forgetting that people who rebel because one of their child died aren't acting as perfectly rational agent, and might accept to lose one eye to blind the capitole. If one of the food sector rebel and is exterminated, you are soon going to have other sector rebel because they don't have enough food, and even if you manage to exterminate them, good luck surviving after destroying key sector of your economy.

"This fortress seems to have been cunningly designed to unable to withstand a siege" - lol

@Viewable11

5 жыл бұрын

It's bullshit, because it withstood the siege. It lost the war when the rebels collapsed a mountain on top of them.

@dominiklehn2866

4 жыл бұрын

@@Viewable11 which still didn't cripple the fortress completely,it just turned it's citizens against it's military

if panam is so ineptly set up one has to wonder how badly lead and poorly thought out the first rebellion was?

@SirMarshalHaig

6 жыл бұрын

The world could be a secret sequel of Idiocracy

@w0t3rdog

6 жыл бұрын

Rather, how bad must the system before the foubdation of panem have been for anyone to say "yeah, this sounds like a good idea, lets do it!"

@allthenewsordeath5772

6 жыл бұрын

Well things had gone downhill rather quickly once they started watering the crops with gateraid.

@totemictoad4691

6 жыл бұрын

I have a feeling the first rebellion failed 'because it did shut up' we can learn a few facts from the books/films, 1) apparently 'for every capitol citizen killed the districts lost 2' so either they mean each and it was 12-1 casualties, or that was really evenly matched in losses, also its stated that district 13 leveraged its nuclear tech, BRILLIANT MOVE THREATEN TO NUKE POSTAPOCALYPTIA, the only way I see the first rebellion being possible is if at some point they threatened to go nuclear, the other districts went hell no and turned on them or its was a small minority of the district populations rising up or they went 'REVOLUTION YAY!' with zero resources or planning, but yeah Panem, inept all the way down

@CedarHunt

6 жыл бұрын

They just walked up to the capital and said "Hey there, we noticed you were building giant statues to yourselves and rolling in overt wealth and plenty while we starve to death. Can you stop?" And that was the entire rebellion.

Livestock district: we found some rare earth stock! Capitol: no Exclave and enclave: Allow me to introduce myself

I Also Love how *North America* is just the continental United States. No Land From Canada, The Caribbean, Central America, Greenland, Or even Hawaii or Alaska. Yet the keep saying they own the whole continent. And Worst Part? The Continental United States is still too big of an area for only one state in a 12 State Union to produce one Material

@worksv3

3 жыл бұрын

Some maps show Panem’s main territory as owning parts of Canada and Mexico (in one of the movies District 7 is shown being around the Washington-British Columbia area and District 10 is based around the South Texas-North Mexico region). About those islands. Assuming the flooding was as catastrophic as most sources claim, then (using topographical maps) pretty much all of the Caribbean is flat-out gone. Hawaii’s just going to be a few lumps of volcanic rock out in the middle of nowhere and Central America’s pretty much the same, just a huge island chain running down towards the Amazon Sea. On the plus side, there’s a new canal running through southern Mexico, so on the impossible chance Panem has a navy they won’t need to go all the way to Panama to cross over. Of course, there’s also nothing saying the Capitol can’t just fling an arena onto one of those deserted islands that used to be a mountain on Cuba or Hispaniola, or in the isolated forests of former Alaska or Nanavut. But you’re right about that last part, a continent the size of North America would be too ridiculously huge to run an economy like Panem’s on

@rainhadainglaterra8829

3 жыл бұрын

Well, the USA is the United States of America, and America is a whole continent so...

@asheknowsbestbest5135

3 жыл бұрын

Panem spans from Canada to Mexico

@georgefloydsfake20dollarbi28

3 жыл бұрын

@@rainhadainglaterra8829 North America is a continent which consist of Central America, Mexico, Canada, Alaska and the Caribbean’s. Even the term America originally meant the whole continent from South America, North America and the Caribbean’s it never meant specifically the United States. Mexicans and Central Americans South Americans are all American.

@rainhadainglaterra8829

3 жыл бұрын

@@georgefloydsfake20dollarbi28 that wasn't what i said??? Or i'm just being dumb here Edit: even i don't understand my own comment now LOL

"Hey, any potential enemy - all of our heavy industry is in one place so please don't bomb that if we have a war with you, ta." Part of the reason for the devastating firebombing of Japan during WW2 is that, away from the big factories owned by Fuji, Mitsubishi etc, there were hundreds of tiny "garage" workshops building small machine parts and contributing to the war effort. Many such businesses still exist in Japan today, actually. There'll be some tiny workshop in a railway arch making some widget that probably ultimately ends up on Toyotas, but it only employs about 5 people.

@heinzthorvald4675

4 жыл бұрын

Didn't know that interesting fact

@ShahjahanMasood

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for telling

@0g0mogosepikworld31

3 жыл бұрын

Oh hey man this sounds really cool, do you have a source?

@EdgyShooter

3 жыл бұрын

Explains how they missed that tiny break shim 😅

@iamblight707

3 жыл бұрын

No dude, it's well documented we specifically targeted major population centers to kill civilians and break their morale. Simple as that. War creates monsters.

The rational I assumed was that keeping each district focused on a single industry makes them equally dependent on the country of Panem as a whole.

@japes7

4 жыл бұрын

Actually one of the best answers. Each district being dependent on the Capitol and the other districts to survive.

@erikanders3343

4 жыл бұрын

The British government tried to do with with the colonies in its restrictions on some forms of industry. They wanted to ensure that they were dependant on Europe.

@silverdeathgamer2907

4 жыл бұрын

@@erikanders3343 Also they wanted to ensure British isles Hedgemony over more developed industries such as the textile or ship building industry.

@SHDUStudios

4 жыл бұрын

Good theory.

@joellaz9836

4 жыл бұрын

Corayye It’s what America did and still does to South America. Search up banana republics. USA make countries in South America reliant on a single industry, such as bananas.

Nobody ever said that each district’s industry is ALL the district does. It’s just what the district is known for. Just like West Virginia is known for coal, Iowa is known for corn, and California is known for the Silicon Valley. But obviously not everyone there is a miner, farmer, or technician. The capitol is probably trying to give each district some sense of identity, hoping that they’ll take pride in their district and root for their tributes in the Games.

@TheRepublicOfDixionconderoga

8 ай бұрын

Nah so each one isn’t self sufficient

@deathtrooper7760

7 ай бұрын

well 12 had there own baker, they had there lifestock, so there are many diffrent jobs available,but it´s just that most of them work in mining or at least most of the man are miners.

@darkmatter9643

2 ай бұрын

Exactly, idk why everyone is so caught up on that point alone

I find myself asking the same questions when I was reading the books. The Hunger Game novels is a perfect example of why writers of all sorts must take worldbuilding seriously. If anything, if you want to make a story set in a scifi/fantasy setting, worldbuilding should be the first thing you should do. People like to argue that 'oh, its a kid's book, they shouldn't be worried about that.' But the thing with kids is that when they start asking questions, they will keep asking and asking until they've got an answer.

@marcospatricio8283

Жыл бұрын

Worst part is... It wasn't even hard to make that world believable! Make it a small country, specify that every district is severely segregated and local elites gain lots of privileges, including education at the capital and sporadic visits, and call it a day. But nooooo...

@wieldylattice3015

Жыл бұрын

As someone who literally writes dumb random stuff as a hobby, I think worldbuilding is both fun and pretty easy. You have a fact about the world your characters are in, so you ask yourself, why is that fact. You come up with a good idea and work it into the lore. Slowly, as you do this more and more, you build a solid foundation of a complex story because you stopped to ask yourself “Why do things work this way?” And you kept asking yourself enough times and thinking about it, to create answers. I personally move worldbuilding for the hell of it though so maybe it’s just me

@blackjac5000

8 ай бұрын

I saw some bits and pieces of the first couple episodes of The 100 and immediately saw that whomever made it had zero sci-fi background. If you want to make every crime a death penalty offense, fine, but throwing the offender out the airlock rather than harvest them for transplant tissue and reproductive material to keep the species going only panders to the target audience's belief that their parents are morons.

@blackjac5000

8 ай бұрын

@@wieldylattice3015 I either read or heard somewhere that in the case of sci-fi you have to keep coming up with ways to hobble and limit all of the super-advanced technology in order to create drama, such as how in Star Trek you can't use the transporter to beam someone or something somewhere else if the shields are up, because otherwise they'd either just reel in the away team the microsecond there's trouble or place a couple of remote-detonated photon torpedoes in the enemy ship's engine room.

@austenmoore7326

8 ай бұрын

Nah it’s actually an proof of the opposite. World building doesn’t matter that much because this book with bad world building sold a 100m copies, was widely loved, and became a huge cultural phenomenon.

British Ministry of Magic: We'll definitely get the award for the Most Incompetent Government this time! Panem: Hold my game

@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348

4 жыл бұрын

No, the Ministry still wins

@user-ft3jq5vi2l

3 жыл бұрын

Don't think about the wizarding world too much if you still want to enjoy it.

@farisanwari777

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@Salnax

3 жыл бұрын

In defense of J. K. Rowling’s creation, I’d argue that part of the Ministry of Magic’s problem is that it is largely run by the people who should be arrested by it.

@the_corvid97

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-ft3jq5vi2l I love Harry Potter but I have turned poking holes at worldbuilding flaws into a hobby.

Yeah no, the only really interesting thing about the Hunger Games was the very ending. I feel like way too many books/tv shows/other entertainment ignore the fact that after a rebellion or revolution, there's a huge power vacuum that's usually filled by a radical faction. After the evil government falls, everything is not all hunky dory, so kudos for the Hunger Games for showing that, at least to a small degree.

@galacticreggie

6 жыл бұрын

The books go into way more detail. Katniss was practically insane by the end of it all, and had very dark moral values. In the movies, she is more heroic and kills less people. In the books, she kills more, she kills more often, she kills more brutally, and she really doesn't care. She's a type III or even IV anti-hero.

@crypto1223

6 жыл бұрын

Galactic Reggie They’re levels to an antihero?

@galacticreggie

6 жыл бұрын

I - V, yeah. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero?from=Analysis.SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes

@capontrade3237

6 жыл бұрын

I really wish that Star Wars would’ve done that in the films instead of leaving it solely to the books between RotJ and TFA. I guess they thought a lot of people were bored of the in universe politics in the prequels and decided to keep it completely out of the sequels.

@crypto1223

6 жыл бұрын

Critical Strike It wouldn’t have been a normal star wars movie, but a slow burn political movie set in Star Wars would be a refreshing take on a tiring out universe. I mean you can only watch space battles and laser sword fights for so long before you start outright screaming, can I just get a water cooler moment where they’re just talking and there isn’t impending doom approaching?!

"Such large Specialization is inefficient" Stellaris Players With 15 Planets that all Specialize only in one thing: We'd like to introduce ourselves

The advantage of the district system seem to be that none of the districts can secede, since they’re not self sufficient and rely on the other districts for essential resources.

@obiwankenobi4252

2 жыл бұрын

Except the instant one does and starts using the resources present in its territory the whole thing comes crashing down

The hunger games is an example of a military dictatorship that was lucky to survive in a broken world

@Agent-Blaze

3 жыл бұрын

I guess Oceania wasn't a military dictatorship

@unknowngod8221

3 жыл бұрын

@@Agent-Blaze untill earth die for our star so no hope for anyone

@tylersoto7465

2 жыл бұрын

Which was doom to fail they we're too sadistic and cruel if they had the ability to create advance technology traps and monsters they could of built robots to serve them and help sustain them and everyone could have a good life

@IncredibleMD

2 жыл бұрын

It'd explain why there's essentially an occupying force of military personnel in District 12 almost a century after the rebellion.

@_RedRightHand_

Жыл бұрын

@@Agent-Blaze At least IngSoc calls for propaganda and removal of information; Panem does rhe opposite, as if asking for a revolution to overthrow the government

The government feels needlessly cruel too. I pointed out while recently watching with my friend a bunch of stuff about how this government even got people to be this contained and controlled. I'm sure it's possible but with the way they handled the riot in the first movie they don't seem to do much other than disperse minor aggressive groups. The games are meant to be some big punishment for their grandparents ( i assume) having some rebellion and the whole 'may the odds be ever in your favor' thing feels a bit as if they're mocking them for having bad luck the first time round. Feels a bit like poking the bear to me. They were practically asking for a rebellion.

@tashajoykin5192

3 жыл бұрын

*Ahem* After the French Revolution and before Napoleon?

@jamesbond9975

3 жыл бұрын

COUGH*NORTH KOREA*COUGH

@EdricoftheWeald

3 жыл бұрын

The thing is, there have been many governments that behave like that in history

@MrAsaqe

3 жыл бұрын

The idea is to make the districts grovel before the capitol. They know if their District is to have any chance of winning a Hunger Game is to placate the Capitol. Couple with the essentials in the strict control of the Capitol means anyone trying to go independent will find themselves starving to death very quickly

@jeffbenton6183

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesbond9975 The difference is, what N Korea does actually works (tragically). They instil a sense of nationalism and work very hard to make the people as ignorant of the outside world as possible. N. Korea is surprisingly stable given how terrible it is to actually live there.

Advantage of a bow and arrow: Quiet, re-usable ammo, ease of producing ammo, weapon itself can also be manufactured with limited tools. Disadvantages: Lower power (notable when facing armored targets), requires significant training relative to firearm due to ballistic nature of projectile pathing.

@thehighground3630

2 жыл бұрын

"Ease of producing ammo" No. A bullet costs 50 cents. None of my arrows have ever been that cheap.

@SephirothRyu

2 жыл бұрын

@@thehighground3630 It is easier to make one yourself than to make a bullet yourself.

@franciscoancer2618

Жыл бұрын

@@thehighground3630 Yeah, but couldn't you just produce an arrow from like a really sharp tree branch, I'm pretty sure bullets need gunpowder and metal. I admit I'm not an expert but I do feel like arrows are easier to find in the wilderness than bullets.

@captainkyperplayz1162

Жыл бұрын

​@@franciscoancer2618you can make some simple wood, feather, and flint arrows, like in the stone age, or if you have smelting tools you can put metal arrowheads on. But mass production will be difficult, and they wont perform near as well as modern manufactured arrows

I was watching this video when I suddenly realised that Pan-Am bears a striking-almost uncomfortable-similarity to the Aztec Empire of old. Now, hear me out: 1) A central metropolis, that dwarves its outlying regions in both size, opulence and population 2) A massively decentralised system of governance (though the Aztecs would have found the single resource model of Pan-Am to be ridiculous!) 3) A military built around theatrics and ostentatious demonstrations rather than the practical and effective (eagle and jaguar warriors look amazing, but those flashy costumes don't do them any favours on a battlefield 4) A tradition that promotes the capture and sacrifice of the populace from the outlying regions, in order to placate and intimidate them (the Aztecs regularly engaged in 'Flower Wars' with the express purpose of capturing victims for sacrifice). Maybe not a perfect comparison, but still filling food for thought. What do you think? I would welcome alternatives and con. criticism :) Thank you Templin for a fantastic video!

@realyoriginalchanel3218

3 жыл бұрын

It's only because they are both hegenonies, this is goverme t based on one city and independent tributary territories, it is otherwise not simular to aztec empire in any way thought, the important difference is that the aztec hegemony was working as an Real government of this type, the tributary cities have them money and manpower rhat was a portion of all their industry combined and were otherwise independent. The sacrificing, warrior leagues and capturing were all cultural or religious practices that only effected the government of the capital city

@JoshSweetvale

3 жыл бұрын

With a bit of tweaking it would've worked.

@kesorangutan6170

3 жыл бұрын

Actually fancy looking soldiers kinda works on war. It gives soldiers morale. Fancier your soldier the better. Why do you think Ottomans had giant hats on their jannisaries? Because they will look taller and more intimidating to enemy. Same thing goes for british queen's guard with those black fur hats. Also I think both of us would shit our pants if we see a jaguar warrior who's using a death whistle XD

@genghiskhan5701

3 жыл бұрын

@@kesorangutan6170 If you were in the 17th century sure but in modern warfare, you want NOT to stand out

@kesorangutan6170

3 жыл бұрын

@@genghiskhan5701 Kinda? You still wanna have soldiers that looks cool & intimidating. That's why tactical gears and military stuff looks cool and insecure american civillians buy them.

This set-up is somewhat similar to Soviet monotowns which had specialised industrial conglomerates that focused each one of their companies towards specific products inside the centralised planned economy. Those monotown companies provided its workers leisure, medical and retail services. In essence, they were a Stalinist version of company towns that were present historically in coal mining regions of the US. Problem is they're placed in unhospitable regions (e.g. Norilsk) and very often the state companies involved had lots of trouble staying afloat following the Soviet Union's demise due to their inflexibility. I think this is the best analogy I can find in real life to Panem's system.

@Amoth_oth_ras_shash

6 жыл бұрын

good example ,and even then it wasent like they went ''what! someone is providing bar services in the gear production town! burn ther house down! or such ^^ but ye a good example with how ther extreme specialasation leading to inflexebility showed so much in the long run.

@animus9184

6 жыл бұрын

Namoth, A lot of systems like these were put in place to prevent economic independence of provinces. In american company towns, workers were dependant on company stores for everything but coal. So in Panem, if 12 rebelled, they would cut the food, if 4 did, then they would cut the power, and so on. The goal of this state is subjugation, not prosperity.

@fluffywolfo3663

6 жыл бұрын

So THAT'S why there's lots of abandoned soviet towns and cities. Huh.

@principetnomusic

6 жыл бұрын

But even in the USSR, no oblasts and republics were dedicated to just one industry.

@Amoth_oth_ras_shash

6 жыл бұрын

ofc ,but like its stated in the long run it only breed nation wide contempt laying the growth for large scale succefull upprissing's rather then 1 disgrunted town at a time.

It is better to be feared than loved, but never hated. This government forgot that later part.

@mrjack901

6 жыл бұрын

Most gorvernments ( that depend on people submission and obedience ) do to be honest ( both real and fiction ).

@jasonjason6584

5 жыл бұрын

@@mrjack901 governments*

@MrCmon113

4 жыл бұрын

You are making no sense. Things that are feared, but not hated cannit be people or organizations.

"What's the point of using a bow and arrow in a modern war?" Why not ask John Malcolm Thorpe Flemming "Mad Jack" Churchill?

@Etzelsschizo

3 жыл бұрын

He was more of a symbolic figure to boost morale than a fighter.

@thegrouchization

3 жыл бұрын

@@Etzelsschizo Really? The guy who singlehandedly stormed a bunker wasn't a fighter?

@fleurdetristesse5218

3 жыл бұрын

Mad Chad was built different doe Your average lad probably would snap the string or smth

@fudgerounds91

3 жыл бұрын

@@fleurdetristesse5218 If anyone is at risk of snapping the string, it's Jack Churchill. It's a flex.

@wildweeb2003

3 жыл бұрын

Regular soldiers don't need a bow, plus the bow has more cons than a gun

If you read the prequel, it explains that the purpose of the games is a means of control. It takes place during the 10th hunger games when Snow is 18 years old. Shows how Dr Gaul (original head game maker) help turn him into the monster. Dr. Gaul seemed to be in organized chaos or showing what be she believed to be the true nature of humanity, violence. The Capitol was meant to be seen as a bringer of peace and order.

“Whats the point of fighting a modern war with a bow and arrow?” Mad Jack Churchill would like a word

@furinick

3 жыл бұрын

*sword

@Chuked

3 жыл бұрын

Nicolas Sousa *both*

@forbiddensandwich4369

3 жыл бұрын

To assert dominance.

@Ziess

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget the bagpipes.

@MrCordycep

3 жыл бұрын

Let's also remember the vegetables that he just liberated from a farm somewhere.

If the government was so inept, how inept was the first rebellion that failed and the second that needed a 17-something year old archer girl to succeed? Well, a YA novel does not need logic.

@MatthewCampbell765

6 жыл бұрын

To be fair that actually can be explained by the simple fact that there's a wide gap of time between the first and second rebellion. That is to say, it could have easily been run by more competent people at the time.

@scottmcintosh2169

6 жыл бұрын

Well, it's said that due to the rocky mountains surrounding the Capitol, combined with Capitol air superiority due to District 13 abandoning the other districts, all attempts to assault the capital failed. Whereas in the second rebellion, rebel air superiority, combined with the Capitol's military incompetence, won them the war.

@ItamarO93

6 жыл бұрын

Scott McIntosh So... Sun Tzu?

@ItamarO93

6 жыл бұрын

long_schlong_silver so more like a contrived "Obi-Wan's high ground" sort of tactics against the first rebellion and a "let's hope the 17 year old girl's PTSD will kick in and she'll fail" tactic for the second rebellion. Makes sense.

@azmanabdula

6 жыл бұрын

Ill win but never fight, thats the art of war! -Sabaton

As a Californian, I must say focusing only on fish wouldn't make the government any worse than it already is.

@user-qi6pv9jh7o

Жыл бұрын

Er, what happened?

@OrionTails

Жыл бұрын

​@@user-qi6pv9jh7o increasing taxes without providing results expected of said taxes.

@The_Lute777

8 ай бұрын

@@OrionTailsthe results expected of said taxes are a richer upper class

I’ve never imagined Panem’s population as being large and spread out across large geographic territories. The way the movies depict the districts is like one single town/city, with all of the district’s inhabitants living in it. There are fences on the outside so that no one can escape the town. While I do imagine the actual territory of the districts to be large, the people only live in one area, and only the peacekeepers can travel into the “wilds”. I can’t imagine what apocalyptic event could’ve led to this substantial decline in the North American population, but we know its population is somewhere between 1,905,286 and 4,556,778, much much smaller than the current population of Canada, the US, and Mexico.

@chistinelane

Жыл бұрын

Apparently it was climate change spurring massive nuclear wars, and thus nuclear war and mass extinctions. It seems like panem formed a good generation or two after the US fell

@nahuelleandroarroyo

Жыл бұрын

5 million is what a province has, not even a US state (a province) has

@captainkyperplayz1162

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the districts appear to be small settlements scattered across the North American continent, connected only by rail lines. Whatever happened to everybody living in the space in between is a real mystery, but they had to have been substantially reduced in the initial apocalyptic event. Some possibilities? 1) At the formation of Panem and the district system, everybody was put in a forced migration to the new district sites 2) those people were massacred by Panem troops 3) there are still small isolated pockets of people scattered throughout the wilderness with no to limited knowledge of the superpower, and Panem has no to limited knowledge of them 4) some combination of the above 3

@radicallyrethinkingrailwaysina

7 ай бұрын

I didn't get the impression panem was very big. Maybe Colorado. The districts as sections of that.

I like to imagine that Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, and President John Henry Eden get together to play video games from time to time. Mostly they have a good time, but occasionally their aunt comes to visit and brings their annoying cousin President Snow who busts into the room like 'Hey guys! Whatcha doin?" They'd all sigh in annoyance and the Eden would reluctantly tell him. "We're playing Dystopian despots." And then President Snow would be like. "Mom says you have to let me play too!" What would follow would be several agonizing hours of watching him utterly fail at running a dictatorship... But none of them want to invade and take over because if they do Snow will run and cry to his mom and get them all in trouble. I put entirely too much effort into this...

@randale9147

5 жыл бұрын

Eden can be the console

@kestrel5895

5 жыл бұрын

Asuming palpatine and vader are better dictators

@brendenhawley2225

5 жыл бұрын

@@kestrel5895 To be fair they at least are high on the dark side. torturing the population with bureaucracy and oppression sound smarter when one is high on the dark side. Palpy might of been known as a great leader had he only embraced the light.

If one district falls, they would be toast immediately. If the districts producing food rebel and are held, the capitol would have to capitulate or face starvation. It's like they looked at a 4X game that involves specializing worlds and they decided that it would be a practical way to rule a nation, failing to realize that it makes them way more vulnerable. Further is their complete lack of realistic military. The all white uniforms make it seem that they never intended to actually fight a rebellion, but rather to look imposing. It's the problem Stormtroopers in SW tend to have: guys in normal logging/mining garb are much harder to see than the supposedly professional army wearing a bright, solid color. Even if you're guys had some kind of advanced tech in the helmets, at least try to blend in with the surroundings.

@negative6442

6 жыл бұрын

Kris Handsome At least the Empire and the Republic had different types of uniforms and soldier classes that were designed and trained to server different purposes. In Panem, they only have the basic foot soldiers

@javierpowell4705

6 жыл бұрын

Kris Handsome the Star Wars thing isnt quite true, there are specialized Trooper regements for different types of terrain and combat associated with it.for the first part; They ARE supposed to be intimidating not to be used unless needed,its a Mentality tactic Riot Squads use to deter Rioters, also look at something like the winter war, a government with an Unelected official as it's leader doesn't always get the common sense idea to have camouflage, I'm not defending the Atrocious obliviousness that is Panem but, trying to give real examples of their failures, as not everyone has common sense.

@KrisHandsome

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm fully aware that the Empire had specialized units with camouflage or for diverse situations. I do agree that it's down to incompetence as to why Panem had no real combat uniforms available, considering most of their decisions from how their society was structured to the attitudes of their leader. It makes sense to look intimidating until the actual war starts, then it just appears silly to keep using uniforms that are in no way useful for combat.

@icepicjoey

6 жыл бұрын

The all white suits is pure presence and intimidation...not real combat troops. Like nazi brown shirts.

@JohnMasterCheif

6 жыл бұрын

Also, stormtroopers were supposed to be an elite shock troop, more like Marines than standard army. Before Disney, the Empire actually had a more standard army, with somewhat more sensible uniforms.

This is the most blunt deconstruction of a fictional dystopia I’ve ever seen. I love it

1:26 I like how Canada is the "wilds"

Great analysis, raising the question about the effectiveness of certain dystopian governments is something I believe that is usually overlooked in Sci-fi, it's refreshing to see an honest talk about them. One of the recent shows that I believe have a working political system is the Expanse, because it is actually much less distopian than you would expect. Next up, Space-faring Governments could be a good follow-up perhaps? Encore une belle vidéo, Templin Institute, see you soon!

@fumarc4501

6 жыл бұрын

Alexandre Arrivé it does if you live on the Belt. Fiefdoms can be nice to a point.

@probition3421

6 жыл бұрын

Save the expanse

@TheArklyte

6 жыл бұрын

As much as I like Expanse, it's economy and politics make no sense unless there it's a sequel to Terminator/Matrix and automation is banned like in Dune or W40k for "reasons". It's not working, it's a set up for the story, but it never could have evolved to this state in the first place. This and heavy bending biology and your own established in lore level of bionics are probably biggest drawbacks of Expanse to me.

@GodwynDi

6 жыл бұрын

Are we talking purely the show, or the books? Because the books are never meant to specifically be a dystopia, just a future.The show I don't know, never watched it.

@TheArklyte

6 жыл бұрын

+GodwynDi the show I guess. Though books are also pure illogical dystopia, sorry:P The glaring example I've meant was the guy with bionic eye that was spying on people and no one noticed or detected "such high tech". Or martian marines "being so great because they've trained a little at double gravity in contrary to earth ones, who had lived their whole lives under triple of that on Mars". Or the idea itself that someone adapted to conditions of Mars can ever hope to become an astronaut:D

When one creates a fictional government for a story targeted to a modern teenage audience??... Well, don't expect pinnacles of efficiency in it.

@wjzav1971

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, its always funny how an invulnerable, all-powerful, iron regime falls to a group of plucky teenagers.

@rumrunner8019

4 жыл бұрын

There was a 90s cartoon about a race of genetically modified, artificial slaves that rose up and enslaved humanity in the future called "Exo-Squad." I watched some old episodes of it and it was SO MUCH MORE REALISTIC than Hunger Games.

@magoschonkers711

4 жыл бұрын

I'm a teenager and I found hunger games disappointing in world building, plot, etc. I dont know why people liked it so much. I read the books in like 3 days because how retardly simple they are I needed no time to process anything.

@wlessfanable

4 жыл бұрын

@@magoschonkers711 I'm over 50 and have always despised how teenagers have been/are written to with shallow stories and a bunch of sulking around. But at the same time, somebody IS buying this stuff.

@corvodraken3049

4 жыл бұрын

Will Winters not teenagers, but mothers I find, basically every dystopian fiction film/book/tv series etc seems mainly popular with mothers

the advantage of having each district specialise so heavily is that only the capitol has the resources to co-ordinate the flow of food and material. it also means the districts are so heavily dependent on each other that they can’t individually rebel and become autonomous because they rely on communication, food and infrastructure that only the capitol controls.

@williamsledge3151

Жыл бұрын

The problem is, Panem is just as reliant on the rebelling district. If District 12 rebels, sure they dont have any resources, but everyone else is without power which will severely cripple the nation. And imagine what could go wrong if the Peacekeeper district rebels...

@cave3141

6 ай бұрын

​@@williamsledge3151The thing is, non of the other districts rely on district 12 for power and energy, they rely on district 5 for it, we know this based from the books and the movies. When district 12 gets heavily bombed by the capitol there was no power interruptions. The need for district 12 is solely to remind other districts that the capitol has absolute control over them and overall just a huge "fuck you" to the citizens of district 12 that rebelled

@cave3141

6 ай бұрын

​@@williamsledge3151also, with all the technological advancements the capitol has they could be entirely self sufficient, they just choose not to, which ultimately backfiree on them

Considering that the country is literally named "bread" in Latin, is anyone really surprised?

@madensmith7014

3 жыл бұрын

If everyone was given a baguette to stab each other with during the hunger games, the rebellion wouldn't have succeeded.

@Attaxalotl

3 жыл бұрын

@@madensmith7014 *L'espion de l'équipe forteresse deux j'aimerais connaître votre position*

@revanati222

3 жыл бұрын

Pan- Am. Shortened slang, comes from the Greek meaning "America, thrown into a hot skillet, over a fire". 😉

@tylersoto7465

2 жыл бұрын

Panam is a bread and circus govt that basically spoils the population making it very easy for the people to listen to them

If history has taught us anything its that all governments and all empires eventually fall because there is no perfect form of government that can outlast the evolution of a society. There will always be new ideas, new problems and random issues that could not be foreseen by anyone who initially created a government, which will eventually lead to its collapse.

@anonymousrex5207

4 жыл бұрын

@Vapor Governments and society have always changed over the years. There is often a pattern or repetition of events that takes place, but each successive government is always based on how to best adjust to what society didn't like about the previous version of government.

@MrCmon113

4 жыл бұрын

@Vapor Yes, they have. They have many, many times.

@anonymousrex5207

4 жыл бұрын

@Reborn technically we dont know for sure if communism will be successful because an actual communist government has never been implemented. However I have argued for years that because communism is contrary to human nature it cannot last as a form of government or economics, which is also why it has never been fully realized yet.

@zakaltan-euskaldunen_enjoyer

3 жыл бұрын

@Anonymous Rex I have to agree with you with that Communism thing. It is true that real Communism is nearly impossible. The closest thing to “true” Communism would be 1984’s Oceania, and you may say “Well they were not really Communist”, which I agree. But what I am trying to point out is that their society is how “true” Communism would work in the real world. In more simplistic terms, if true Communism would be implemented, it would be a VERY dystopian state, like Oceania. Then the purpose of Communism that Marx came up with are instantly taken down, and sure, some original Communist properties would still exist, but not in the way Marx wanted it. That is all I have to say on this matter for now.

@gamerito100

3 жыл бұрын

Anonymous Rex World is temporary, Imperium of Mankind is eternal

Honestly I expected you to say "You know nothing, President Snow"

@MisterTutor2010

6 жыл бұрын

You GoT a good joke :)

@JinKee

6 жыл бұрын

President Snow was playing 4D Chess.

Their is actually one advantage to the district system. No district can survive on its own, so they need some central government to manage everything.

I was in high school when the first hunger games hit and overnight like half of my classmates would not stop carrying around the book or talking about how awesome it was. It reminded me of when the Twilight books came out a few years earlier and the same sort of thing happened, just a complete omnipresence of this one book.

@KillerOrca

3 жыл бұрын

That tends to happen in every fandom really. Same goes for anime; something big comes out, everyone latches on, it carries on for a bit then dies once theres no more fresh material coming out.

Only thing to correct - it looks like districts are actually just towns. So entirety of Panem might be smaller than one state and be just a bunch of monotowns. But yeah, this thing is ridiculous

@Amadeus_Phoenix

6 жыл бұрын

commander O'Shovah yeah, when I read the books I pictured a much smaller state, with one city and then smaller towns that were each positioned in an area rich for a particular resource. Not sure if it was always intended to be this megastate style thing and I misread it or if that's a later interpretation

@fede98k54

5 жыл бұрын

I think that districts are just one big village with a lot of very small villages around and a lot of abandoned territory.

@GeorgeComerci

5 жыл бұрын

District 12 was canonically the smallest district in the books, consisting of only one real town. But Katniss mentions the large sizes of the other districts, like 11.

@lolroflroflcakes

5 жыл бұрын

I mean sure their population is probably low but there is no way you could find the wide variety of resources needed to sustain a civilization as advanced as the capital in one single area as small as the American states. More than likely they just cherry picked the safest/most resource rich area's on the continent after whatever cataclysm struck it and made those safe for human inhabitation. They are fairly spread out but if you actually read the descriptions of the various districts they are clearly going from east to west across North America, 12 is in the old mountain range's on the east coast where the capital is built in the Rocky Mountains.

The only intriguing thing about Hunger Games was the actual hunger game. After that, everything about its world is poorly thought out.

@nkvdcomradeorion7336

6 жыл бұрын

sombodi200 Just like Communism eh.

@spearhead7777

6 жыл бұрын

If you just read the first book and ignore the sequels it sort of reads like an Ann Rand novel or 451 with a very explored post-apocalyptic society with a "gimmick" that illustrates a point the author is trying to make.

@henryambrose8607

6 жыл бұрын

The only intriguing thing about the Hunger Games is how it shamelessly ripped off Battle Royale, that is.

@RemnantShard

6 жыл бұрын

Henry Ambrose True, but it had 1 or 2 nice new elements to it.

@RamdomView

6 жыл бұрын

That's Young Adult fiction for you.

Given the post-Apocalyptic state that Panem is supposed to be in, I think that it would be reasonable to assume that a decent majority of North America or the continental United States is uninhabitable. Whether it be from nuclear radiation, natural disasters, or man made disasters. And the economic system is designed to make the Districts reliant on each other. There is no communication between districts, and the Capitol controls all transportation and communication between them. District 4 would be more believable if the entire District would only be within a few miles of the coast, District 11 and 10 would be the largest, but most of the natural resources there besides their specialization would be either gone or inaccessible. The Capitol is the holder of all the advanced technology and military power. A more realistic Hunger Games would be career programs in every district, teaching them how to fight and such, but few survival skills so once they get into the arena, most are forced to hunt each-other down and fight to the death rather than starve or die of exposure. The reapings would be more realistic like this, because in canon, reapings are utterly stupid. The only citizens to be selected would be the careers from each district, and their ranking in the Career program would be similar to their skill, the best girl and boy in the program have the most ballots. And the reward for winning is much greater for the district, granting food, tech, and other luxuries that they wouldn't be able to get otherwise. This would only be for a short time however, thus making the reason to win the Hunger Games all the greater. This would make each Tribute really motivated to win for their families and districts, and instill more pride as a whole. Therefore, rather than just the stick, the Capitol is giving a carrot as well while getting better entertainment than a 18 year old, 220 lb career from District 2 butcher a starving District 12 tribute.

@niallwood

8 ай бұрын

Doesn't the first book mention Panem sitting on the land formerly known as North America, but shrunken from risen sea levels?

Every district must provide a boy and a girl as tribute. Tribute: "I don't identify with any particular gender as I'm gender fluid" Capitol: "Damn, they got us on a technicality."

@tank1503

3 жыл бұрын

nah they got a vagina send em over

@marcoantoniosalazarmatamor9496

2 жыл бұрын

Probably would be more like “*boom, splat, drop, pulls another name* You, come here, you’ve been selected.” In dystopian literature, especially tween dystopian literature that tries to be serious a la “Hunger Games”, the only way to win against the government is to completely tear it to pieces, otherwise you will just become another example of their cruelty. Now, if you wanna see an example of a comedic, done-by-being-clever dystopian government destruction, look up the short story “Sam Hall”.

@tylersoto7465

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, have you seen the way the capitol people dress their a bunch of freaks that you can't tell that is a man or woman lol

@user-qi6pv9jh7o

Жыл бұрын

Who said that non-capitolians deserve gender?

@TheDankBoi69

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure by that time woke gender theory would be forgotten

I knew it! I knew it was going to be Panem!

@TemplinInstitute

6 жыл бұрын

May the odds be ever in your favor.

@juimymary9951

6 жыл бұрын

+The Templin Institute And they were! What do I win? What do I win?

@zulthyr1852

6 жыл бұрын

The most effective: Oceania from 1984. PEACE IS WAR. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

@Aliexster

6 жыл бұрын

I'd argue against that @Mesodium. Their logisitics are being constantly re-written for morale purposes, to the point that controlling the information the proles get outweighs actually producing anything! You can lie to people, but you can't lie to numbers and they will sooner or later bite you in the ass. Likely when the famines hit, the power goes out, or the water gets blighted, which are already rudimentary at the best of times in the story fail.

@lyricbot8513

6 жыл бұрын

Gian maria was it from the um, thumbnail?

you guys should do a colaboration with terrible writing advice to cover the reallife lore aspects and the storytelling problems

@lekhaclam87

6 жыл бұрын

Introduce him to the Institute, he will do wonders!

@granmastersword

5 жыл бұрын

Don't forget the love triangles

@Rudofaux

5 жыл бұрын

I concur

@teddyn240

5 жыл бұрын

I think he already did an episode on both dystopias and evil empires.

I think a key point of the Hunger Games was that Panem had reached its terminal degenerate stage where it was bound to fall. It was Rome under Honorius or Valentinian.

I don't think there are any prizes for overthinking the premise of a book or film, but if there is I'd be happy to nominate you for it.

It's almost like it's a poorly researched and poorly written piece of literature designed to appeal to immature young readers.

@dougbennett8592

4 жыл бұрын

Well I'll be damned!

@Harold_Flite

4 жыл бұрын

Majority of todays books made to movies are as vapid as the authors writting...but just look at their target audience too, total normies.

@ionia2376

4 жыл бұрын

It's not poorly researched though, in fact it's based on Ancient Rome.

@rickchros1919

4 жыл бұрын

there good books tho

@blyanterpencils3156

4 жыл бұрын

Wandy Wexler Weslon literally what the fuck are you on about

Also what makes you think Panem was a large, advanced nation? Everything indicates that Panem had a very basic economy, and it's population was likely very small. Look at the districts, almost all of them specialized in producing raw material (lumber, coal, grain, fish, etc). Nothing suggests an advanced nation here. . District 12 only had 8000 people. It would make no sense to have it as a separate district if Panem had 30 million people. Remember Panem was founded after some catastrophe wiped out most of America. I think the districts were isolated remnants surrounded by vast wasteland, so the effective territory of Panem would be quite small.

@davehale3992

4 жыл бұрын

B H: I would agree with you, however we see Panem as an advanced nation through their usage of genetic modification and Hunger games arenas. Not to mention the physics defying hovercrafts. It would make more sense if either 1. The capital inherited such technologies from the previous government. Or 2. The capital was much smaller and less advanced.

@duck1ente

4 жыл бұрын

@@davehale3992 Panem is in the far future, those technologies could have developed before North America underwent cataclysm, before Panem became a country, Panem inherited those technologies. As I remember from the book, It is implied that Panem's technology has stagnated since the Dark Days rebellion, therefore Panem is not an advanced country

@davehale3992

4 жыл бұрын

DUCK Poor choice of words, I was more getting at how there technology level doesn’t fit there economic level. Not that they where a advanced Society.

@duncanm4061

4 жыл бұрын

Said it stretched from coast to coast, so it’s pretty big.

@TheArrowedKnee

4 жыл бұрын

@@duncanm4061 Doesen't necessarily mean the actual occupied and inhabited territory is very big. Just that there's a fairly big distance between the furthest points

“Nooo you can’t just overthrow our technologically advanced government! We have highly advanced guns, hovercrafts, and multiple other technologies that are far superior to yours!” “Haha, bow go vyoom”

Phew, I thought the Templin Institute caught glimpse of my stellaris empire.

Now I see where Terrible Writing Advice got his inspiration for his Dystopia video from.

@SamaritanPrime

6 жыл бұрын

That guy always makes subtle jabs at some fictional universe or another in every one of his videos.

@edwardcollier7218

6 жыл бұрын

Reality Rejection Service True

@Rainbowhawk1993

6 жыл бұрын

Edward Collier Don’t forget the Love Triangle.

@edwardcollier7218

6 жыл бұрын

Rainbowhawk1993 Of course!

@totallynot0something047

6 жыл бұрын

*Love n-sided tesseract in the nth dimension

I never realized how dumb that government was

@GeorgHaeder

6 жыл бұрын

Well, naming their nation with the latin word for bread wasn't the smartest move to begin with. ;)

@Weeping_Willoe

6 жыл бұрын

I wonder what it would be like to live in your deluded state of mind

@lilydinh6059

6 жыл бұрын

Jacques d'Orleans They may seem stupid to YOU but people have been pimped out had people not underestimate the enemy they wouldn't have this problem.

@robokill387

6 жыл бұрын

Hope Is Key you people have been saying that fema is taking over for 20 years now. Why hasn't it happened yet.

@JC-zt8lf

6 жыл бұрын

Well if they named it the full "Panem et Circenses" it would sound weird.

The bow and arrow thing, at least, I have an answer for. The point is it increases morale for Katniss's "allies". Like, that's genuinely it. She's a symbol for the rebellion because she chose to unlive herself rather than kill Peeta, and the bow is a part of her character. It's basically her icon.

Crippling incompetence: The main suspension of disbelief killer.

@mikhaelgribkov4117

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, looking at our world, I think crippling incompetence is the most realistic shit ever.

Most inept? I dunno, the government from those terrible Divergence movies is up there as well.

@tomost3891

6 жыл бұрын

To my regret I have seen the first of these horroble movies. But, I think there goverment is far supereor to Panem. They have a Caste System, but you don`t are forced to stay in the one your born in, but the one that suits you the best. Yes, I would consider this highly unethical and against everything western civilisation stands for, but Caste/ Estate Systems were the main social structure for most of human history. Therefore I think it can work well.

@filipbatora7523

6 жыл бұрын

Panem at least put its people to work, but the guys from Divergence literally took portion of the population that did not fit into 5 random (and extremely limited) groups, made them homeless and then dedicated one of those 5 groups to take care of them. You are not fit to be farmer, charity worker, lawyer, insane cop or scientist? Sucks to be you. Oh, and if you are actually qualified to do multiple of those jobs? Boy, you are sooo fucked.

@monkeywage

6 жыл бұрын

Except that is not a caste system. That's just automated job placement. The entire point of a caste system is to place a group of people above and below others to create some sort of structure for governance.

@SolarArmadillo

6 жыл бұрын

Taxrenn93 to be fair if I remember right the government of divergence is just one massive sociological experiment.

@skyslasher2297

6 жыл бұрын

Taxrenn93 but it’s a walled community and not a country what’s more there several locations of each factions activity’s

No argument here, Panem tops the list. Makes you wonder how the first revolt failed. (I am updating this comment by stating that I have not seen the movies or read the books, my comment was based only on the video)

@granmastersword

6 жыл бұрын

Brad Erickson maybe bad writting for the sake of making Panem sound evil and antagonistic

@patlanticocean8290

6 жыл бұрын

Possibly a series of rebellions all trying to put their own leader in charge. 12 refuses to help 3 and 5 actively raids 7 for supplies ect. The Capital just calls it 'The Rebellion' because they all have the same main goal but their loss of coordination means it becomes a bloody 15-way fight with nobody being even remotely prepared for a drawn out combat and the Capital wins simply by having a stored supply of some resources.

@matteobaldini9837

6 жыл бұрын

There's a lot of shoddy writing involved. As much as I liked the books and movies I admit it's not the best stuff.

@Nonsense010688

6 жыл бұрын

I think thats the question is, what is the focus. do you focus the emotional journey of the hero or the world-building.

@wthomas8383

6 жыл бұрын

Brad Erickson The Capitol is located in the Rocky Mountains (akin to irl Salt Lake City). This was over 75 years ago (Panem timeline) when they didn't burrow through the Rocky Mountains to bring in the tributes by train to the Capitol. The only way in was to scale the Rockies, which made the Rebels easy pickings for Capitol hovercraft. Eventually the Rebels suffered too many losses and the tide turned in the Capitol's favor.

I've heard so many people compare this to capitalism when it's literally the opposite.

@failtolawl

2 жыл бұрын

@totoki imagine still parroting marxist theory in 2021. He was saying capitalism was in decline 250 years ago bro.

@edp85599

2 жыл бұрын

@totoki Panem seems to practice feudalism, not capitalism 250 years ago was 1768, Marx was born in 1818. The feds never kidnapped people in Portland, they detained suspected criminals. In Portland, people were trying to burn officers inside the federal courthouse back in summer 2020.

@user-gp5xc4tj4l

2 жыл бұрын

@totoki sorry Hitler was and Benito Mussolini were socialist. Stop believing in your stupid and ivil ideology

@peaveyst7

2 жыл бұрын

@@failtolawl lol seems you never saw a communist country... or have read marx or engels...

@failtolawl

2 жыл бұрын

@@peaveyst7 The guy literally regurgitated Marxist economic development and critique of capitalism

I REALLY love how you describe everything as if it is in our universe. It seems like a really well done history video.

@mikespangler98

Жыл бұрын

That was way too good of a description of Washington DC.

This is what happens when a writer is more interested in obvious moralizing parables and shallow anti-establishment power fantasies than creating a believable fictional world. Stories like 1984, Brazil, 451' Fahrenheit and even Demolition Man work because they start with a realistic issue and then develop it to an extreme through a logical evolution. Hunger Games, Purge or Divergent, on the other hand, spend so much effort trying to make the system look bad that it becomes a joke that wouldn't be sustainable for more than a couple years. Their cruelty doesn't come from ineptitude, paranoia, corruption and dysfunctional industrial systems. They're cruel just to make the reader/viewer hate them.

@NaumRusomarov

6 жыл бұрын

Actually, Panem is set up in a very similar way to the states of the former Soviet union and Yugoslavia, with different republics doing their own thing all ruled by an iron fist from the capital. Ultimately, Panem died because of a problem that is inherent to autocratic regimes -- internal strife and fights for power. And that is presented well in the books. Together with centralized planning that is necessary for such regimes to even have a chance of success.

@matman000000

6 жыл бұрын

Naum Rusomarov I haven't read the books, but the movies never gave me an idea of an internal strife. It was very pro-regime vs anti-regime, Snow was always shown as the man behind every plan.

@NaumRusomarov

6 жыл бұрын

Mattchester In the third film, it is revealed that the president of the 13th district used the rebellion to usurp power. She didn't give a damn about anything or anyone but herself. Once Snow is dead she declares herself the "temporary" ruler of Panem and reinstates the games, which causes our main character to take matters into her own hands.

@matman000000

6 жыл бұрын

Naum Rusomarov Yeah, but I thought more in lines of struggles in Panem's government itself. The political elite is loyal to Snow.

@roguishpaladin

5 жыл бұрын

@@matman000000 They're loyal because it benefits them to be loyal, not because they like the guy.

What's the point of using a bow and arrow in a modern war? What's the point???? My good sir you have yet to be acquainted with John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill

@George-Hawthorne

5 жыл бұрын

AKA Mad Jack

@angelopueyygarcia43

4 жыл бұрын

Aldon Blackreyne that mofo stormed the beaches of Normandy with a claymore absolute madlad.

@josecarlosgutierrez5814

4 жыл бұрын

Confirmed kill with bow and arrow on WW2

@leechowning2712

4 жыл бұрын

Or, the discussion in the book "Starship Troopers"... A bow and arrow is a functional weapon in a stealth combat environment. Even the most advanced suppressor cannot make a bullet silent. An arrow however will never make a sound which would attract the attention of a guard.

@yonghominale8884

4 жыл бұрын

@@leechowning2712 Plus a good arrow will penetrate Kevlar armor.

i think the whole point of snow being so confident is the fact that it’s exactly what every single ruler in the world does. act like everything is going to plan

The main issue I have with this video- and fan-driven worldbuilding in general- is that the districts are supposed to be small towns. Nowhere in the books or movies does it imply that they’re massive- everyone is within walking distance of their main town hall. The books also mention that most of the world population is gone. As a result of this, I think we can safely assume that the districts are small towns that are located wherever the government thought would be the absolute best location for each industry. For instance, there’s only one coal mine (in 12) and one hydropower dam (in 5), which can sustain power for the whole nation. This implies a very small population scattered across the 12 small towns and one capitol city

I've always thought that The Capital's chief export was the (with the exception of Cinna and Portia) worst taste in clothing in ALL of the alternative universes.

Actually I think I know exactly why they're doing this. By making sure that the sectors depend on each other and by controlling all transport between them you basically make sure that no single sector can become self sufficient and therefor break free. If every sector made everything a single sector could just break free and the only way to get it back under your control would be by military invasion. This way however if a sector gets uppity you can just stop sending food or coal to it and it wont be able to go on for long.

@aceambling7685

6 жыл бұрын

hedgehog3180 the thing is that the only reasons the districts have for rebellion are the crushing poverty (which exists to allow decadence in the Capitol) and the Hunger Games. If you remove these elements the Capitol has no reason to organize its economy in such a ridiculous manner.

@bobbytables464

5 жыл бұрын

@@aceambling7685 The crushing poverty exists to keep would-be-rebels crushingly poor and concerned more with living hand to mouth than fomenting effective rebellion. It is in fact not a zero sum game whereby the districts are poor because wig-wearing aristocrats in the Capitol can have orgies. The Capitol could extract a lot more wealth from the Districts if it allowed economic growth in the Districts, but they intentionally do not because they presumably remember the real-world examples of Perestroika/Glasnost hastening the collapse of the Soviet Union, and they do not think a Deng Xiaoping-style economic reform would allow them to maintain control over the more individualist population of North America. The society is literally named after "panem et circenses", i.e. "bread and circuses" - a famous allusion to controlling the population by making them dependent on you for food andheroic narrative.

@RamdomView

5 жыл бұрын

The strategy fails due to lack of redundancy. If a District rebels, the gov loses their only supply of that resource, driving other Districts into revolt from lack of necessities.

@Zergonapal

5 жыл бұрын

@@RamdomView I agree it would seem to have a domino affect, especially since it seems the capitals response to rebellion is to practically wipe out a district so even if they regain control it would probably take a generation for that district to effectively contribute. So the setting really doesn't make sense unless the capital has vast stores to basically take up the slack of a district.

@floppydisksareop

4 жыл бұрын

@@Zergonapal the thing is, they are supposed to be so technologically superior to kick the would be rebels' asses easily, that is why there is no tank factory in any of the districts, for example. Now district 13 comes in at this point which has nukes so they are afraid of attacking it properly. They could easily have military control over any region of Panem, and they sort of have as well, but they are incompetent as well... So they could grow the economy, send out some more soldiers to each district and call it a day

Finally! A person that actually understands how incompetent the hunger games truly are!

This is still my favorite video from you guys. It validates everything I've said about the books.

I wish I could post memes here The capital: You think you’re all better than me don’t you Imperium of man Galactic Empire Caesars legion

@alanxu3936

3 жыл бұрын

Ave, true to Caesar

@franciscusradityapamarta4645

3 жыл бұрын

Glory to the empire

@passingshadow8934

3 жыл бұрын

May the Emperor Protects!

@diamondmetal3062

3 жыл бұрын

I actually have a headcanon that Panem is a potential distant result of the Legion’s victory at Hoover Dam. Specifically if Caesar dies shortly after and the power vacuum is filled by someone wildly unfit like Vulpes or Lanius.

@343DeltaSpark

2 жыл бұрын

Ave, true to Caesar

Honestly, the whole "Hunger Games" thing would've made much more sense if the games were used with Panem's criminals, whether they were wrongfully convicted or not can be where the dystopia aspect comes from, instead of just ripping some kids from their families. Having supposed criminals fight to the death for their freedom and the enjoyment of the masses would have been a great parallel to Rome's Colosseum, where "bread and entertainment" distracted the people from the problems of their society.

@robertgronewold3326

6 жыл бұрын

The Hunger Games was written as a retelling of the Greek myth of King Minos and the Minotaur. In that, people were randomly selected from Athens to be killed by the monster as punishment for the death of the prince of Crete many years before.

@vonfaustien3957

6 жыл бұрын

they already did dynistopia that forces criminals to fight in death games with the running man.

When reading the books i thought of the districs as much smaller. 12 seems like it is just one town/small city not realy the massive plots of america people say. I imagined it as pretty much the original 13 states or at least chunks of the east coast where the breakup of districs makes more sense

The world building behind the hunger games was done with the purpose of drama, not logic. No half sensible nation would devote entire districts to a single resource, antagonize them and then heavily depend on them. As you said, they destroyed District 12... which only hurt their own power supply. Great story, interesting concept, caused every current game to develop a Royale Mode but terrible logic

@TheRepublicOfDixionconderoga

8 ай бұрын

Didn’t they destroy 13?

@bradhp11

7 ай бұрын

@@TheRepublicOfDixionconderoga(CATCHING FIRE SPOILERS) . . . . they destroyed 12 at the end of catching fire despite being its source of coal lol

@sofiamirandadd

7 ай бұрын

That is a blow for the capitol, but their main source of power for themselves if I remember was the huge dam in the city that was managed by District 5 I think that then got bombed by the rebels which completely cut the power in the Capitol.

@shykorustotora

7 ай бұрын

@@sofiamirandadd so if they lose District 12 and 5, they’re back to the Stone Age..? Again, wtf is this infrastructure..?

@videogamecin

2 ай бұрын

Hold on, which real world authoritarian system is half sensible?

The Hunger Games is just a big allegory aimed at teens to take their future for granted. I think that's very admirable. Panem is a mixture of Rome and North Korea, and their obsession for enterteinment and celebrities is basically hollywood right now.

@dragonslair951167

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think Panem is still effective at doing what it was created to do; telling an allegorical story about the dangers of decadence, crass commercialism, complacency, and blindly trusting in your leaders.

@MatthewCampbell765

5 жыл бұрын

The Hunger Games themselves work as an out-of-universe symbol and are actually pretty clever social commentary. The games are rigged to be interesting, and playing to the crowds is how you win. The audience has a very skewed sense of ethics-for example, caring more about the Katniss and Peeta romance than the cruelty of children being forced to murder each other. Which is actually realistic, too-in fact, the series (especially later on) falls into many of the traps it points out (which makes them somewhat hypocritical but ironically proves their own point pretty well). When Katniss threatens suicide, it ultimately plays to the crowd, too-by threatening to take away the 'happy ending' that they actually want. However, the problem is that it only works symbolically. In-universe, the games make no sense at all. After the first book, the status quo of Panem becomes increasingly the focus of the story, which is where it becomes an actual problem.

@attilaedem101

4 жыл бұрын

I dont think so - Panem is literally the Eastern block during the cold war - every single nation had its "speciality" to work on it (and no one else allowed to do that - for example: East Germany produced cars for the average ppl's (the Trabant for example), and Poland produced cars for the political elit and its clienture (for example the Lada). No one else allowed to produce cars within the eastern block - period. Hungary instead produced buses and other public transport vehicles - and like cars no one else allowed to do this (and the funny thing is: hungary didnt even had the resources to produce such vehicles without importing raw materials from OTHER eastern block nation - but just becouse its looks good on the map Moskva pushed this bs heavy industrialization into Hungary, which barely had any resource to do it - and let the agrecultural stuffs for Romania and Bulgaria - 2 resource rich nation, which barely get the chance to exploit its natural resources). So long story short: its easy to critizize Panem about its absurdity and destiny to fail - but real life already produced 1 Panem - literally. Except the Hunger games thing, that clearly inspired by Spartacus and the roman gladiators.

@pyrrhusofepirus8491

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah but the Roman Empire was an effective system

@Materminds187

4 жыл бұрын

No, Panem's an allegory of Britain controlling over America before the American Revolutionary War, controlling and taking supplies to better themselves, while having to force control onto the country over how things are done

It wouldn't be the first time corruption and hedonism lead an empire to rip itself apart. I like to think that 75 years prior Panem's government was actually competent, and that Katniss' uprising just finished what almost a century of debauchery and mismanagement had been doing. Similar things have happened in real life; the Aztec Empire basically sacrificed hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of civilians from it's tributaries every day for years, and immediately before the French Revolution the Aristocracy of France was throwing money away on personal luxuries even as the commoners starved.

@kainepeterson6638

6 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of a certain country I live in where billionaires have a yacht for every sea and multiple houses with enough room to comfortably house 5 families each.

@stein6811

6 жыл бұрын

I think you're over simplifying everything there op.

@devdixit2440

6 жыл бұрын

Jamestown - Well the society they live in knows about democracy and large, industrial economies, with a higher standard of living (the current world), the Aztecs didn't, and anyways the Aztec population believed in and supported the sacrifices and the administrative hierarchy.

@DivineBlueMould

6 жыл бұрын

Devya Dixit It's also worth noting that the Aztec Triple Alliance lasted less than a century, and most of Cortés's army consisted of locals who wanted to take the Aztecs down.

@ricardobautista-garcia8492

6 жыл бұрын

Jamestown the Aztecs fell not because of their sacrifices but because of biological warfare with the Spaniards.

I dont think people realise though. A Leader with ridiculous ideas is very realistic

I would love to see an invasion of Panem by the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k

@LAV-III

3 жыл бұрын

I honestly think the imperium would be better making the country far more efficient at making stuff because we all know how much the imperium loves it’s tithes.

@garretjenkins8720

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know much about Warhammer 40k but they’d absolutely decimate panem

@user-qi6pv9jh7o

Жыл бұрын

Or Hellstrom Hive (Frank Herbert had written not only Dune). They are only 50.000 of "new humans", but just too efficient as a society. Their spies will behead Panem and watch it crumbles and attacks each other.

The Capitol doesn’t want the districts to develop themselves economically, precisely because it’s something that would empower them. Thought there is a sense of nationality being imposed, Panem is less of a country, and more a bunch of colonies in service of a metropolis (as it was in the old colonial languages). I do agree that the world would need to be more thought out, but the Capitol has no interest in exploring the districts more than what it is required for their luxury living. Yes it was a system that was ultimately doomed to fail, but such are the ones that are designed to sustain the privilege of the few in detriment of the many. It failures was less due to Snow being an idiot, and more because he lacked apathy and lived in a bubble. We don’t know much of the extent of the world outside of Panem, but as it is, isn’t really that different from the relationship must colonial power had with some colonies. Like some countries truly used their colonies as nothing but a source of extraction of a particular commodity for ages, and it was disastrous and ultimately doomed everyone, but it kept things in check while the ruling class was satisfied and poor was divided and had hopes of getting a crumb of what the elites were having. The Hunger Games purpose wasn’t to make Panem more united, or even afraid, was to make the Districts divided. Because they would see the other districts as competitors rather than compatriots. So all we need is assure that this time we get to win, so we be the ones to get the rations from the capital. I agree that it could be more fleshed out, but there is a justification for the Capitol exploring the districts the way they do, and the failures of the system are justified within the narrative. They are of course, simplistic and have adolescent logic. Cos they are a book for teens, and no punk rock band sung dissertations. I guess that, there is a book out there for everyone, and at least it’s a good entry point?

@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah. Plus, if you find minerals in a different place other than the mining district you can just set up a mining town with a refinery at that other district. Then funnel the money back to the mining district (after Capitol taxes of course). It would even be a great way to keep the people divided, as the inhabitants of that district would have antagonistic sentiments towards the mining town and it's 'foreigners', thus leading people to fight amongst themselves and stay divided. Also, because of this constant intimidation, the miners there wouldn't have the confidence to fight to own their means of production, as they would be outnumbered 'foreigners' who aren't not be uppity -- caring only about getting their job done and sending money back home. Tensions would rise, especially when some tribute from the mining district kills one of the host districts' kids -- sparking further divided amongst the people (instead of inflaming them against the system), thus justifying further separation and specialisation of the districts which creates a feedback loop. Also, when you let people focus on single specialities it makes harder for them to see the bigger picture and so makes them easier to control. Having them freely exchanging ideas and perspectives, while also empowering them economically, seems like a bad idea when you want total control. Anyway, like you said, it was always doomed to fail -- but that's more because systems meant on enriching the few at the expense of the many always ARE doomed to fail. That's not the story's fault.

@DaDunge

4 жыл бұрын

The idea isn't bad but they should have made the districts much smaller and had several producing each resource, but everyone ships everything to the capital who redistributes it. Also haivng the districts small enough that you can reliably nuke an entire district if they rebel is not a bad idea.

@sagichnicht6748

4 жыл бұрын

That doesn't quite work out though. The colonial powers you are referring to where not useless, unproductive capitals but actually highly developed economies. The colonies they exploited merely served the purpose of delivering cheap resources for the domestic industry. For Panem to be believable it would need two things: first of all, the highly developed regions would need to be much more diversified and optimally be actually part of the larger capital. They would not work is mere colony. The rest could be poor and exploited but to limit any of the colonies to just one resource is stupid and serves no point. They would exploit any kind of resource they have. Doing so would not empower them at all, to the contrary. If one colony is the only source of critical nature that empowers that colony much more than if that resource can be sourced from a number of colonies.

@icedcat4021

3 жыл бұрын

Im pretty sure that the hunger games are meant to be a metaphor for capitalism.

@realyoriginalchanel3218

3 жыл бұрын

It's an hegemony, meaning the capitol is the state and rest of its territory are tributaries and vassals

Wait, the Capitol is Salt Lake City?

@gdspathe1130

6 жыл бұрын

its Denver IIRC

@AragornRespecter

6 жыл бұрын

Nowhere Man I knew the Mormons were up to something!

@nowhereman6019

6 жыл бұрын

Eric Lu actually, looking at the film, there is a big lake and mountain range in the distance which indicates its probably Salt Lake.

@gdspathe1130

6 жыл бұрын

Mountain ranges are common enough in Denver and geoengineering isn't out of the question

@atreides213

6 жыл бұрын

Pyrus “Hello! My name is elder Snow.”

"what's the point of using a bow and arrow in a modern war" *angry hawkeye noises*

“One bad fish harvest, and half the country faces starvation.” Like the weren’t already