*HEY* I've been getting a lot of great and insightful comments, so to everyone being civil, props to you. That said, I made a follow-up video addressing a few of the criticisms because this video really needed more time in the oven: kzread.info/dash/bejne/noqcqsadpLO_j6Q.html Now I'll address a few smaller things I've been seeing: "You were way too aggressive towards Kuro" You're right. Even though I said multiple times that I respect Kuro and have no beef with him, my tone was actively saying the opposite. I won't excuse it. I will take the L. "Isn't Goku vs Superman more hated?" You could argue that its impact is bigger since it literally spawned the existence of Death Battle debunk videos, and they even have more dislikes (even if it's by virtue of having way more views), but in terms of like-dislike ratios, Ben vs GL's is technically worse, currently having a 56% ratio as opposed to the other episodes having at least 90k more likes when compared to their dislikes. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I can definitely see that. I'll accept buying into clickbait, though, as I did want that snazzy title. "Hal going back in time to kill Ben is such a low blow, especially since it was Kid Ben when it should've been Teen Ben" Again, I'm right there with you. However, the reason why I didn't address it is that they didn't want to have a third "explosion death" in a row and wanted to go with something more creative for once, so I chose to base my criticisms around that and what it should've looked like. Then again, an explosion death probably should've been used regardless, but whatever. As for Teen Ben, refer to what I said about the available sprites. Now for a couple of other points: 1. I agree that the ending with Hal going back in time would not actually work. The only reason I didn't mention it in the video is because I forgot to bring it up. My b. I've also gotten comments from people saying that it's a low blow. That's also something I can agree with. 2. Just in case I need to mention this, too, I have nothing against Death Battle debunks. When I say "it's unfair to criticize the episode for outside factors", that's only in the context of reviewing the full episode. Debunks are meant to tackle the research and arguments that Death Battle is using and doesn't take any other aspect of the episode into account (unless if they mention how the animation contradicts a point they made in the conclusion), so on that front, it's fair to use outside factors. I feel like I should've made a distinction between reviewing an episode and debunking it, and I didn't think about it until the last minute, but I had no time to work it in the video somewhere. Anyways, links that I mentioned earlier. Check these out to get a better understanding of the matchup: Ben vs Hal G1 prediction blog: g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2019/05/death-battle-predictions-ben-10-vs.html Ben vs Hal analysis by Spider Pidge: www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057 Kuro's Alien X video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/kWxstLePopy9kbA.html Other links: Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Q&A: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hYWpzNKsl8eaYps.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D How Ben Wins Without Alien X by Kuro: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2ehx6mLmcnYkbA.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Kuro's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern analysis: kzread.info/dash/bejne/mGGezbVqqtibc8o.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Ben vs Hal Q&A Response by Kuro: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oHeCmMiTirSTk8Y.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Nemesis Bloodryche's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Review: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y6SkuMSqld3cg7w.html

@MLG558

8 ай бұрын

I read all of the information on 28:44 and it all seems agreeable since I have seen all of the seasons debunked videos. (also to forgot to sub after seeing all of the death battle debunked's my bad. putting this in my comment to tell you that I have subbed to you.)

@user-mx7ve7uw5p

8 ай бұрын

DanCo did a video for B10 vs GL too, you can add him as well.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

if i may? the time travel thing mostly likely WOULD work based on in series ben 10 rules. two of his villains have used it against him (one in the show, and one in the comics) and even with clockwork's powers, ben couldn't tell the difference between someone being vaporised and someone being sent back in time. in a less lethal capacity, ben's altered his own present at least twice onscreen.

@timtam1386

8 ай бұрын

I have a question about the bit where you showed the reddit post about Morganna. Did you actually pay to have that video advertised, or did someone edit that image to slander you?

@b-vileproductions3942

8 ай бұрын

Also I think Ink Tank thought Four Arms broke Hal's shield because of the overlap with the shield and the broken windows behind him.

Not only did Ben lose, he died in the exact 1 way that would be IMPOSSIBLE to use against him. Alien X can follow Time Waves from Time travel, similar to how Flash can follow Time Travelers, and Hal using a giant pair of scissors was something Vilgax tried EXACTLY and the Omnitrix prevents SPECIFICALLY.

@Vindication1134

8 ай бұрын

The omnitrix only prevents instant death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not limb amputation.

@ravwoofles3858

8 ай бұрын

​@@Vindication1134The series doesn't give a definitive answer on what doesn't constitute a threat to Ben, besides obviously things that have zero chance of killing him. However, the Omnitrix often acts in a way that seems like it has intent, and understands the current intent of outside forces (in writing terms it's a limited but powerful form of plot armor); which is why Vilgax was using a specific machine to remove the watch without actually providing a deadly threat to Ben the moment it would have been removed, and only planned on harming Ben after. Therefore Green lantern could have been amputated, but he also would need to intend to stop the bleeding. So I do think there's ways green lantern could have won and honestly I can't even be bothered to be mad at who wins in the end. What did bother me was that it was obviously clear that both parties definitely did not fight to the full extent of their abilities, and the fight ended with a cheap shot that was easily preventable by Ben. Be it that the either Alien X followed Hal, or that the Omnitrix; sensing Ben's distress at something about to cut off his arm, assumes deadly force is about to be inflicted and turns Ben into an Alien that can either be alright without an arm; like Swampfire, or is too durable to cut. I can accept that they were limited by time and resources when it came to actually showing what a full on fight between the two would look like, but don't make the ending something that can be disproved by two minutes of research.

@azairecummings7049

8 ай бұрын

@@Vindication1134how is cutting off the part of the arm the watch is on not removal

@magnusm4

8 ай бұрын

Simply reading Alien X's wiki powers explain why everyone hated the ending. "Alien X can survive a timeline destruction" meaning even if he killed young Ben. The future Ben as Alien X would still exist. Also Alien X can technically time travel himself, it's basically god mode in sandbox on drugs, hard drugs. Surviving the destruction of a universe and creating one itself. So Lantern time traveling could also be applied to Alien X following him or simple reversing back to before he told him etc. Time travel is a bag of worms you shouldn't use when it applies to both parties. Cause it's a dumb and very contrived.

@benjamintenison24

8 ай бұрын

​@@Vindication1134That would be true, except for the fact that this literally happened to Ben in the show. Instead of his hand simply being chopped off, Ben got teleported to what I believe is the null void while his hand was walking around on Earth.

In the end, I think it was more the inconsistent and lacking research that annoyed people rather than just the verdict.

@ZeallustImmortal

8 ай бұрын

You can't dislike a death battle without everybody just assuming it's because the character you like lost

@heyguysxd

8 ай бұрын

Eh a lot of casuals and many reaction channels ONLY care about the verdict and complain afterwards if their character lost. Also in that rant they love bringing up the prejudices: "Death Battle hates anime", "DB has a bias against dbz" and so on.

@theonetruefusion8533

8 ай бұрын

@@heyguysxd Yeah that's just fucking Immature, Goku isn't beating somebody who can teleport with mere movement, Goku loses to Superman

@user-mx7ve7uw5p

8 ай бұрын

I say both equally

@doubleaabattery7562

8 ай бұрын

​....goku can do that too..

I think the reasons Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is so hated is because 1. Green Lantern is not known to time travel to the mainstream so watching him time travel will make tons of people confused 2. Traveling back in time to kill your opponent at an vulnerable state is the most Disrespectful and cheap way to kill someone so it would make a lot of people Ben 10 fans upset

@danny5636

8 ай бұрын

3; hal kills a child

@rolay7730

8 ай бұрын

4) Ben has that power too. He literally could have followed Hal and showed up before him.

@ghosty2548

8 ай бұрын

2 especially because it makes no sense that why Ben can't simply do that

@danny5636

8 ай бұрын

ya they made ben stand there like an idiot

@rr-ui5my

8 ай бұрын

Ben could also travel in time and his watch does not let its wearer die, the moment his arm is cut off automatically it should transform him into an alien that can regenerate it

I liked the part where Hal said “Time huh? Thanks for the tip” and then proceeded to go to a restraint and tip all the waiters. Truly one of the death battles of all time

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Based Hal for doing that!

@vwin9112

8 ай бұрын

And that's how Costal City was saved.....which turned out to be the catalyst for the Emerald Paradox(okay not really)...but that would be so hilarious.

@Grag235

8 ай бұрын

Truly a wonderful hero, I hope he doesn’t murder a child😌

@SuperPlacido1

8 ай бұрын

In a positif way or in a negatif way? You need to put an adjectif in your sentence so people can understand what you mean!

@master_guy8520

8 ай бұрын

@@Grag235 ayooooooo didn't think i would see you here

I genuinely think the only reason this episode is hated so much, is just because of the scissors, the scissors completely contradict what they said in the analysis about the Omnitrix catching the Big Bang, that literally feels like it, it’s just the scissors being so damn slow

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

Definitely.

@Yes_nugget

8 ай бұрын

For me it was both that and the fact that ben lost. Not to mention they took 10 year old ben with a prototype omnitrix instead of his prime

@liamdealmeida9914

8 ай бұрын

​@@Yes_nuggetUsing 10yo Ben was a stupid idea even if it was just for looks and DB's research and scaling of a character is almost always pathetically wrong but the winner was right. Ben 10 isn't even scratching Hal. One is arguably high outerversal if not higher, the other is hyberversal if you're being extremely generous.

@Yes_nugget

8 ай бұрын

@@liamdealmeida9914 I disagree, ben should have won. I can think of two aliens that can beat Hal, alien x (obviously) and clock work. Alien x can do literally anything, Hal isn't winning against that. And clockwork could could simply stop time and then fire a time beam that will age his body rapidly, killing him instantly.

@liamdealmeida9914

8 ай бұрын

@@Yes_nugget While both are powerful, they just can't compete with someone on Hal Jordan's level. Most of Alien X's abilities won't work on Hal, GL has been shown to resist similar abilities from much more powerful characters, whether it's Pre/Post-Crisis, New52 or Rebirth Hal. Alien X being able to "do literally anything", means what? He has matter and time manipulation, erasure, mind control and transmutation, maybe reality warping (GL has most of these too)? These abilities are fairly common and usually (except for time manip), scale to the user, meaning they more often than not, won't work on someone massively more powerful eg. Giorno (JoJo's) or Gilgamesh (Fate) would have better luck (aka causality manipulation) than Lucky Girl (Gwen) or King (OPM), to the point where they can dictate what happens opposed to it just being luck to them. A better example is how mind control from someone like Puppet Master didn't work on Hulk but it worked much better from Xemnu or Thanos. Stopping time means absolutely nothing because GL has immeasurable speed, so he can travel through time with raw speed alone, I'm pretty sure he even has irrelevant speed though, but you only need inaccessible speed to move during stopped time. I don't recall Hal having age manipulation resistance, but he can also age things, someone aged a tree to a stump with a replica of his ring and he once aged himself into being an old man and casually managed to de-age himself back to normal. I'd imagine he does have resistance to it, seeing that other lanterns haven't used this ability on each other, he just allowed it to happen to himself. Even if he didn't, he is just infinitely more powerful and faster so it doesn't matter. Ben is a statue in comparison, so Hal speed blitzes and one-shots/erases him before he can even use the move. If it does hit him, he just reverses the effects. I'm not sure if you're familiar with all this power scaling jargon, which is understandable, you're not expected to as long as you're respectful. If you need me to elaborate on stuff, I'll do my best to explain. I can understand why people would believe Ben wins but he just hasn't done much that Hal hasn't dealt with or anything that can put him anywhere near most JL members in power. To put the power gap into perspective, Alien X is probably at low complex multiversal, so 4D to 6D, each dimension is more than infinitely above the previous one. Hyperversal starts at 12D and can go on to infinite dimensional, so ♾D. You can then go above this by being outerversal, above the concept of dimensions as a whole and there are still levels to this. While Hal isn't an outerversal being in nature, he has outerversal attack potency (power) and durability meaning he can destroy outerversal structures. If you want any proof of Hal being at this level I'll find some examples and use some chain-scaling.

My biggest gripes with this battle are the death and the fact that they just made Alien X look like another flying brick.

@ImADeity

8 ай бұрын

For the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix they made him look weak. Alien X is supposed to have supreme power over the entire universe, And they make him have the Shadow clone jutsu and punching. He could have beaten that fight in a second.

@orabijuu8550

8 ай бұрын

the only reason alien X was boxing in the series is it is bec he was fighting another clestial sapien, him doing it in the death battle is clearly a point they made that green lantern is atleast has the stats to nulify every haxx alien x got, no ?@@ImADeity

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Ok, go back and watch Ben 10 Omniverse he literally has as a flying brick because Ben is pretty dumb. The coolest thing he's done is: Universal Creation Black Hole Some Lame Telekinesis Minor Time Manipulation

@faith4657

8 ай бұрын

@@l0sts0ul89 ben dumb? wow you say go back to the series but don't even know the first about ben. literally one of the most battle hardened characters. literally all good hax and more what you mean?

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

@@faith4657 With his godly power, instead of ya know fixing the Plumbers Kids and removing their powers or something what does he do? Make them fight like Legos, all he did was punch while in Alien X. Also "one of the most battle hardened characters" is giving Ben too much credit, he's not.

I'm not mad about that Ben lost. I just didn't like how they portrayed him. He had an older voice with aliens from the newer omnitrix. At that point just use teenage Ben lol

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

The only alien outside the original 10 that he used was Alien X

@smartpatrick8690

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 nope. Waybig

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

@@smartpatrick8690 Way Big is part of the original series. I should've said that instead

@MemetastorTheGreat

8 ай бұрын

I heard that the reason why they used young Ben 10 was because he was more popular than the older version but I might be wrong as this was 4 years ago when I heard this

@MultiMario2306

8 ай бұрын

@@roobyrne3075Kid Ben was mainly used because the team didn’t have access to Teen Ben sprites and ultimately them using Kid never had an effect on the outcome

My issue isnt necesserely that Ben lost. Its HOW he lost. Ben deserves a proper defeat, not some bullcrap that would never have worked. Give us a proper Alien X VS Hell Battle where at the end Hell manages too destroy the Omnitrix, not simply cut it off Bens arm wich WOULDNT WORK.

@stepb.3223

8 ай бұрын

I felt the same way. Like the basics I know about Hal i can believe it could possibly win, but how they showed it just didn't make any sense at all

@silverbreaker9271

8 ай бұрын

Yeah it was such a weak conclusion, you end the whole figth by basically preventing the fight from happening in the first place and attacking from behind at a vulnerable moment, doesn't it take away the point of doing a battle to see who is stronger in the first place? I mean, in that case what stops Ben from doing the same? Just time travel back in time to a point where Hal's ring is with 0 charge or he isn't wearing it and kill him when he dosen't see him comming, where's the fun in that?

@neptuneplaneptune3367

8 ай бұрын

@@silverbreaker9271 Exactly. Ore go back when Hel tried too recharge his ring during there battle and destroy the Lantern.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Expect cutting off his arm literally would work, it literally happens,

@neptuneplaneptune3367

8 ай бұрын

@@l0sts0ul89 But that wasnt with some regular scissors but with a hyper advanced weapon that send Ben too another dimension but kept his hand in the regular dimension, but they where still connectet. When the Omnitrix transformd, Ben transformed as well, when the hand moved and jumped arund, Ben was pulled along. That was a entirley diffrent scenario.

The weirdest part of the battle aside from Alien X throwing hands, is that Green Lantern just 1-shots all of the clones somehow

@vorrdegard2176

7 ай бұрын

Yeah it didn't make sense

It really says something about the episode when it’s not just getting the fully scripted segment treatment but the whole entire video treatment

As someone who had been watching kuro since his first video, based on some stuff he has said in the past, I believe that the reason he said he'd rather than death battle "never touched the character" is less so because of any of his feelings and more because it forced him to make those 3 videos. In a lot of videos he has said that he actually doesn't really know or care that much about powerscaling and mainly just wanted to give ben 10 some respect that he felt he lacked (which is something I appreciated back when I discovered his channel too because I also felt like I couldn't comfortably talk about this show I've loved for half my childhood up until kuro's efforts). The bad part of kuro becoming the accidental ambassador of the ben 10 community is that he ended up feeling forced to address and respond to any issue the fandom had even if it was something he didn't necessarily wanted to do, the death battle videos being one of those, I believe he initially didn't even want to make any videos on it or more than 1 video on it so by the end of the third he felt that the harm the episode caused to him by indirectly making him make videos he didn't really want to outweighed the parts he liked and just wished it hadn't happened so that he wouldn't have made those videos.

@orabijuu8550

8 ай бұрын

the progression about that thing is so clear on his side too. he was just tired of it

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

I'd get tired of that crap too. I feel bad for Kuro.

@afro025

8 ай бұрын

Tbf, he never *had* to make those videos. At the end of the day he was the one who wrote the script, recorded the dialogue, edited the video, and then uploaded it. It definitely does suck to hear, but he could've very well just ignored it. You can't really blame death battle for that

@orabijuu8550

8 ай бұрын

@@afro025 that is why even that certain event was still not over, he stopped responding. Ofcourse it's partly his fault upon shouldering the voices of the community.

@spyro2002

7 ай бұрын

@@afro025 yeah I definitely wasn't implying it was all the fault of either party. I just wanted to shed some light on why he said that he wished they never touched the character. Shortly after those videos he actually had announced that he was going to stop making videos and give control of the channel to his 2 occasional co-hosts, even did a big "history of ben 10 animated" event that was supposed to be his "epic finale" but even then he returned to making videos some time later and has seemed to be happier ever since. I believe that in that period of time where he wasn't making videos he probably realized that being the go-to content creator for ben 10 didn't make him automatically accountable for any random community drama he may or may not want to invest time into.

I think the main problem is that nothing said in the initial video, and even afterwards, actually give Hal the win. There is no reason to believe the fail safe has a cooldown, Vilgax had the Omnitrix hand in a specialized machine when he attempted to cut it off (and it’s never shown to actually work), and making any judgments on the limitations of Alien X is foolish when aside from a few crew statements and Agregore’s plan to absorb a baby Celestialsapien we aren’t given any limits.

@gundamandyugioh4184

8 ай бұрын

Also going on the omnitrix fail safe, it’s faster than the Big Bang, plus if Hal’s constructs are classified as energy then Feedback alone wins. (I don’t know a lot about the lanterns so correct me if I’m wrong) also even if Hal destroyed diamond head he’ll regenerate also the best transformation would have been goop

@josel.game8577

8 ай бұрын

@@gundamandyugioh4184 Green Lantern can re-absorb energy

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@gundamandyugioh4184 they aren't actually classified as energy. at least not one that obeys any given laws of physics. he can freely transform it into any kind of energy he wants, including magic or sonic, or even something like antimatter. rookie green lanterns are vulnerbale to things like black holes bending light, but experienced lanterns are not. he also has a number of tricks to deal with energy absorbers and can just... win tug of war matches with them. the first time he ever absorbed the central battery he did so to prevent another being from doing it, and not only absorbed it faster but took the power away from him. it's technically the raw fuel of all reality, including dimensions like the new gods realsm and afterlife. and absorbing hal's specific energy kind of... turns you into an extension of hal, anyway. it's described as"omnijectively real" and the thing which powers the source wall

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

an omnitrix technician in every series claims you can cut it off, and the one time it seems to prevent his hand being cut off, the episode actually points out the weapon malfuntioned, it wasn't the omnitrix's doing. plus, you can't assume no limits on alien x since he's shown to fall short several times in the series. to do otherwise is to just give him unlimited benefit of the doubt while ignoring hal's own experience killing immortals and omnipotent beings.

@gundamandyugioh4184

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 where in the series is that stated? Cause again it’s fail safe would prevent that. Like an Omnitrix technician? First I’m hearing of it, unless it’s from the reboot which is not canon to the Prime timeline so where is that stated. I genuinely would like to know You have a point with Alien X though

If they had come up with a good enough reason for Ben to lose, I wouldn't have been mad about it. But no, that was not the case they just doubled down on the lack of proper research on Ben and why he should lose

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

the problem is that they were RIGHT about a number of the points people call poor research, or didn't dispute them enough. among other things, alien x has actually shown onscreen he cannot sense time travellers coming and doesn't exist without ben.

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

​@@danielwilson8604except he CAN sense time travel Celestial Sapiens can sense the sotobro effect, just like chronosapiens

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 this is never stated, nor shown. the sotobro effect is specifically something chronosapiens and their technology leave behind when they time travel, no other time traveller leaves such a trail. eon and even vilgax were able to travel without paradox tracking them, and paradox himself even snuck up on alien x themself, grabbed ben, and left, forcibly detransforming them. neither serena, ben nor bellicus could sense him coming or stop him leaving. if there is a specific statement otherwise please let me know.

@user-kx5gs3fc4h

8 ай бұрын

@danielwilson8604 Regardless of Alien X not showing it, it doesn't mean he can't. Alien X's species exist outside all of existence and cannot be harmed by anything. They failed to fully understand Alien X and the idea that there isn't anything he can't do

@mauricereticau6292

8 ай бұрын

@@user-kx5gs3fc4h Claiming that someone can do "anything" is vague, unquantifiable, and ultimately, meaningless. There are plenty of characters in fiction said to be omnipotent or god or whatever. Those are just titles. What really matters is the feats they've actually shown. Speculation and assumptions are worthless. You can't just make up powers or stats for a character. That's not how debates work. It doesn't matter that Alien X is said to be able to "do anything". Yeah, so are about a dozen comic book characters, and they are still beaten by higher beings. That phrase doesn't tell me anything. The best he has ever shown is creating a universe. That simply isn't enough to beat even mid tier DC heralds. And you literally just pulled the ultimate no limits fallacy by claiming Alien X can't be harmed by anything, Just because nothing in Ben 10 is powerful enough to harm in (which is questionable itself but that's not important right now) that doesn't mean other characters who have greater feats than him can't. It doesn't matter that he's the god tier in a verse filled with mere universal reality warpers. His feats are so pathetic compared to what Hal has pulled off. This is the same argument Saitama fans use. Battles are about feats, not how cool someone looks whenever they show up. By your logic I could also say Zeno from DBS is unbeatable because nothing in his verse is powerful enough to harm him. That's not how it works.

Being reminded of this death battle only further reinforces my belief that its almost always going to be obvious who the winner is based almost entirely on how old the character is and how much source material they can call upon. like my belief is that Ben lost because they almost never went into higher threat levels that require heavier hitters like Way Big or Alien X, and kept the scope of the show mostly on Earth when the most interesting things happened off in space, Hell apparently Alien X isn't even the strongest in the Omnitrix base on Dareks comment, but it doesn't matter since we never got to hear or see anything about it.

@gadlygamer

8 ай бұрын

that statement was debunked Alien x is the strongest alien celestial sapiens are literally the creators of everything and are stated to be the literal staff of ben 10

@Five_FingersofDeath

8 ай бұрын

​@gadlygamer That wad also a joke by the writers.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@gadlygamer ...no? what? we've met the actual creators of the multiverse and it's not the celstialsapiens.

@gadlygamer

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 celestial sapiens are literally above everything the forge of creation is above the contemelia

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

With the likes of DC comics being like 80 years old that sure as hell is true with the fact that every god damn dc comic is canon to one another or someshit.

My favorite part of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is that part in Goomba vs Koopa DBX where Koopa flies through the timestream leaving behind the Goomba shoe for Hal to "get an idea"

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Such a top tier moment fr.

@tydragon4545

8 ай бұрын

Wait that happens? Im sorry I forgot how that whole thing went so it’s kinda fuzzy in my mind

The entire Ben 10 vs GL debacle was an undeniable mess. The episode itself is average at best with some considerable flaws that caused the backlash that it did. For starters, the overall analysis for both characters was fine. It did a pretty decent job at summarizing the characters, what they were about, and a basic rundown of their abilities. The animation though is where the issues start rearing their ugly head. With the animation itself, I think it’s cohesive enough & the animators did a great job. The sound design was also well done. The directive choices of the fight is what I take issue with. First off, I understand why they chose to represent Ben with his kid model. It’s the most iconic & recognizable look he has. Considering his opponent though, it might’ve been better to use Teenage Ben; as you avoid the controversy of a full-grown adult offing a kid if he won. The next issue is the choreography of the overall fight. The fight up to Alien X is good. You get to see a variety of powers from both sides, fun interactions, and some quirks from both combatants. When Alien X arrives however; we start getting interpretations of both characters that are very inaccurate to their portrayals & the fight starts becoming unbelievable. The fight ends with GL using an ability he isn’t known for having before he finishes off a kid in a way that makes 0 sense & is very disrespectful to his opponent, which is also completely out of character for Hal; Killing restrictions removed from their personality or not. The final 2 nails in the coffin comes from the closing analysis. For starters, the closing remarks were super vague about how GL managed to secure a win, and it left me as well as the audience unsatisfied with the conclusion. What’s worse, the actual good arguments for why GL could feasibly win was left to be answered in a Q&A segment, because Deathbattle couldn’t be bothered to do a lengthy explanation for why they chose a winner overall. Leaving your strongest arguments out of an episode is just a bad judgment call. All that said, I’m actually glad this episode got as much flack as it did. It was a needed wakeup call for the team. Since this episode, I feel the team takes the debate aspect as well as showing off characters in a more accurate light (in most cases). They’ve certainly gotten better, and in matchups that are far messier to decide a winner, (Take DIO vs Alucard for instance), they take their time and address every possibility for why they went with their winner & made sure all the possible bases are covered. I honestly believe Deathbattle would not be as polished as it is today if episodes like Ben vs GL didn’t kick them in the pants & the team didn’t take valid criticism to heart. If you read through this long winded post, I honestly thank and applaud you for doing so.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

I love the idea of this episode being something of a wakeup call. That's probably the perfect way to describe it ngl.

@mauricereticau6292

8 ай бұрын

Nah, the "wakeup call" the Ben 10 fanbase wanted was for them to believe that "Lel aLiEn X sOlos" and "bUt mUh fAiLsAfE". The Ben 10 fanbase was stuck in their delusion of Alien X being some omnipotent god who solos fiction, and they were upset that Death Battle didn't think the same. I've legit seen people think Alien X is on par with TOAA and The Presence.

@nathanblevins9870

8 ай бұрын

I will agree about the fight The sprite in the fight was off.

@mrmisterman2874

8 ай бұрын

Them having a wake up call is why I think Wally vs Archie did better than Ben vs Hal, both episodes involved the DC character beating a character mostly known for being unbeatable to a fan base that can’t/won’t accept otherwise, but Wally vs Archie didn’t end up as controversial because, like you said, they addressed every reason why Wally wins in great detail, so your assessment is extremely accurate

@Velocity_YT

8 ай бұрын

​@@mrmisterman2874you sure? Because I've seen a lot of people that kept on saying Archie Sonic should have won and that Archie Sonic beats Wally in basically every aspect.

My take: 1.Presentation: Even though Death Battle goes with the peak version of a character or sometimes a composite version for some reason they decided to use young Ben as their representative instead of Omniverse Ben. This also follows into the aliens they use since a majority of them use Classic Ben designs instead of a custom or Omniverse which makes it very confusing for those who arent aware than Ben is 17 years old canonically at the end of the origonal series. 2. The line up of aliens: Way Big and Alien X made sense. Four Arms as a starter to grasp the difference in strength was fine and so was Heatblast. But we didnt get guys like Atomix, Chromastone, Upchuck or Feedback, aliens that they listed off as some of his best picks that didnt even show up to make things interesting. The fight only really got good once he went Way Big. 3. Logic: Even if you were to say Ben was to lose to Hal the fact they completely ignored the failsafe that stops the wearer from dying was complete crap. A better option would be to make the omnitrix go into self-destruct mode then stop Ben from turning it off so that he blows himself up. And this is ignoring the worse moment of the fight where Hal just time travels and Alien X just lets it happen without a fight he doesnt follow him and fight in the time stream or just pulls a Bite za dusto. It was just stupid for the sake of an ending.

@comicking428

8 ай бұрын

They didn't ignore the failsafe, they just didn't go into detail about it in the episode itself, which was the biggest issue.

@DJPrimeAmvs

8 ай бұрын

@@comicking428 yeah I know the failsafe itself has a lot of ambiguity to it but I still felt it was a lil dumb so just ignore it like that.

@ImADeity

8 ай бұрын

If the failsafe was able to transform him fast enough to catch the big bang and shoot it like a weapon, He should have been able to dodge scissors

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

​@@ImADeity and Hals constructs are faster then the big bang

@faith4657

8 ай бұрын

@@l0sts0ul89 try being faster when your opponent can't die, also speed inconsistence much.

The big issue is the scissor thing, the failsafe protected Ben from the Big Bang and if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix from AF he had his hand severed by a portal but omnitrix reanimated his hand and stayed linked to the severed wrist keeping him from bleeding out so really the method of Ben losing was just really stupid, there are plenty of ways Hal could have won the fight but cutting his hand off was stupid

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

Agreed.

@metalmario1231

8 ай бұрын

the hand was severed by that axe...the energy field the axe produced was what stopped ben from bleeding...the omnitrix had his hand move on its own sure but the axe teleported ben away from his hand

@Dreadwing1000

8 ай бұрын

@@metalmario1231 yes and as I said only if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix, however they show the prototype which multiple times prevents it’s own removal & even flips out when Vilgax tries to cut his arm off & he begins randomly transforming for the remainder of the encounter & the final omnitrix failsafes to protect him while he’s human to enable him to survive a universe creating/destroying bomb at point blank range, so unless they’re only using one omnitrixes logic that isn’t even shown rather than the one shown or the most current then it’s kinda cherry picking ain’t it?

@justinalicea1590

4 ай бұрын

​@@Dreadwing1000Incorrect. When Grandpa Max crashed through Vilgax's ship and into Vilgax, saving Ben from getting his arm cut off, the ship's electricity started to freak out, which eventually reached the container on the Omnitrix and made the Omnitrix continously freak out. Hence why it keeps randomly changing Ben into aliens once he got out instead of returning to normal, even as he fights Vilgax again. Sometimes the random transformation saves him, sometimes it completely hinders his ability to fight Vilgax. Hence why Ben's winning move is when the Omnitrix quits it, so Ben can move as a human kid and fire Grandpa Max's weapon. The Big Bang was obviously not at point blank range. Meaning that the lack of response from the complete Omnitrix until the explosion reached him shows that the Omnitrix will not preemptively save Ben from something that will kill him. What is limb removal? Something that causes blood loss, which unimpeded will cause Ben to die in 15 minutes, meaning it is a problem for Ben in 15 minutes, not in the now. So no reaction from the Omnitrix. Especially as the transformation or even pulse blast has reacted to Ben getting injured, regardless of severity.

“Hal (I can bullshit my way through anything with will power) Jordan” is such a perfect way to describe the type of person Hal Jordan is lmao

I’m surprised that Ben didn’t beat Hal with a number 2 pencil.

@austinsmith6014

8 ай бұрын

That sounds like a Big Bang Theory reference, and I love it! 😆

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

That sounds like a spongebob reference.

@WallabeeBe4tles

8 ай бұрын

Sounds like common sense considering some are yellow

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Stale Joke is Stale?

@DarkWanderer149

2 ай бұрын

@@WallabeeBe4tlesdon’t forget the wood part!

As a MASSIVE Ben 10 fan, it's not so much that Ben lost as it is how he lost, the expectation for why he lost, and who he lost to. I'm going to start by explaining how he lost. This just applies to the animation. It's very obvious why there was such a backlash. Having Hal travel back to the beginning of the fight was a cheap and anticlimactic way of winning. In addition, it goes against how time travel works in both the DC and Ben 10 universe. So regardless if either character goes back in time to kill there opponents past self this does nothing but creates a new timeline in which there original selfs are unaffected. Now it's time for the dreaded Green Scissors. The fail safe should have activated when Hal goes back in time and cuts Ben's wrist. The energy feedback that protects Ben doesn't have a cooldown, and the Omnitrix will turn Ben into an Alien who will protect/save him."But Hal's constructs move faster than..."Blah blah blah the animation didn't elude to that and that's exactly the problem. The animation has to matter. A good amount of people who watch Death Battle watch for the animation and so it needs to be a more proper representation of both characters and there abilities and it needs to be conveyed as accurately as possible. Now, the explanation for Ben's loss. It was written poorly. I'm not going to go into detail (partly because I'm lazy and I'm writing this on my lunch break and you go into better detail than I could), but here's the bare minimum. All they had to say was Hal was faster and had more experience fighting Omnipotent entities, and they removed all of the fluff about Ben playing catch up and his aliens not being able to accomplish (insert feat here.) I could go on and on about how they didn't calculate or mention any of Ben's more powerful aliens and their feats, or what they got wrong about Alien X, or how they downplayed Ben or how I didn't like Ben's representation in the fight or how the episode at times felt like nostalgia pandering to me during Ben's anyslsis but none of that matters because of my last point. This was a completely unequal match-up, which is why I disliked it so much.This is something that anime fans bring up when a DC/Marvel character beats an anime character on DB, and it's that DC and Marvel characters have an unfair advantage because they have multiple comics, different authors, multiple different timelines and alternative versions, and they've been around for so long. Most non-DC/Marvel characters have a single source of origin and a smaller pool of writers. In the case of Ben 10, the franchise is only 17 years old, but DC and Marvel have characters that have been around for more than 40 years. For myself and many others, rooting for our favorite to win against these characters is pointless because DC/Marvel characters are simply built different. They have a lot of power creep. I wouldn't have minded if Ben had lost against someone on his level, but he didn't. Lanturns are broken. Honestly I hate being reminded of this fight and yeah I have no problem saying this is my least favorite DB and it's not because Ben lost it's because he never stood a chance to begin with so there was no point being excited for this match up in addition to the fight being ( and I hate using this word) mid. The peak was Hal vs Heatblast imo and everything afterwards just being meh. Both characters have creative powers and both characters don't do anything interesting with them in the fight. All around good analysis video. If you have feedback or a different opinion I'd love to talk.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

may i dispute your comment?

@samburgerwithcheeze8145

8 ай бұрын

​@@danielwilson8604💀

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@samburgerwithcheeze8145 sorry, i don't understand this reply.

@samburgerwithcheeze8145

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 why wanna "dispute" their comment, just curious

@mechamudkip1750

8 ай бұрын

@saucymongoose I agree with your opinion. I saw one ink tank video where Kuro talks about how ben won and how death battle got some stuff wrong about Alien X, and how Ben could use different ways to win against green lantern.

The problems don't come from Hal beats Ben. It's how. Ben's first watch has a cooldown, but his latest doesn't. By the version of Ben they use he has all the powers of a later Ben, no mater the sprite. He can't be killed like that. And thay handled Alien X really poorly, he is a solve a problem fast with powers type of fighter, not a melee one. Also the biggest issue is Ben has a lot of aliens that can absorb Hal's attacks or affect the ring. And they use none. I am with Kuro here. I wish they didn't touch Ben, because they didn't add a lot to the fandom and spred some misconseptions like what can Ben do and that the watch is harming the user by a lot of use

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

honestly, i'm of the opposite school here? a lot of what people claim in the debunks is flar out wrong or directly contradicted by canon, and it's lead to a lot of people claiming ben has powers he doesn't or tryting to enforce limits on green lantern he doesn't have, like claiming he cannot travel in time post crisis. no version of hal jordan lacks time travel. it's also pushed alien x scaling to frankly absurd extremes.

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

If three Alien X clones are fighting in melee, the rest will be throwing suns or blasting the enemy with antimatter or doing literally anything other than JUST FLOAT THERE

@matheussandbakk9959

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 I'm not really an expert on Green Lantern, but a lot of things that he did against Ben is literally established in Ben 10 to not be possible. You can cut of Ben's hand You can't travel back in time without Ben being able to anything against it (Sotobro effect) Also Ben's human form can't be killed as it has a fail safe that would automatically change him to an alien able to survive said attack Like I don't actually care about the main result, just the way it was reached as its contradictory to Ben 10's lore and rules

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@matheussandbakk9959 the problem is, Ben's human self has died onscreen, and an omnitrix technician has claimed you could cut it off in every series, including g the final. They could have explained it better, but its still supported by canon. It has defences, but they aren't absolute. Also, professor paradox did just that against alien x himself, destransforming him by warping into their void while they couldn't sense him and teleporting away before they could do anything. The sotobro effect is only said to trace chronosapiens, after all. And even as clockwork, ben couldn't tell the difference between eon travelling in time and being vaporised.

@smirkyshadow4152

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 Theres no such thing as the "Omnitrix technician" atleast in the main contintenty the reboot is it's own seperate thing that's like using teen titans go as a reason for why raven or starfire from the comics lose a fight, it's dumb

I think it was Stan Lee (or some other big name in the comics industry) who when asked who would win a fight between two specific characters said, "Whoever the Author wants to win."

@debater452

8 ай бұрын

Yeah it is all up to interpatation

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Please please please stop using this stupid stupid quote, THERE IS NO WRITER IN THIS CONTEXT YOU IDIOT. Me Vs You, we debate. Who's the writer? Oh right, there isn't any, this isn't a story, there is no narrative, there's nothing here that needs an author's input on how it would go.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

​@@debater452 I don't want to repeat myself

@death-nm7hr

8 ай бұрын

Ah yes the most bullshit excuse according to this logic a human being can beat god because the writer

@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis

8 ай бұрын

​@@death-nm7hrWell, yes. There are countless stories where a human beats a god or even The God simply because the author wants them to.

I believe the big reason Ben 10 v Green Lantern was so disliked, even if previous episodes had incorrect conclusions, is that the other episodes all _seemed_ to be good arguments. If the only things you knew were what DB showed, then most of the time one could leave an episode thinking "yeah, that makes sense". The rematch of Mario v Sonic did NOT have this, and even seemed to ignore very good points in the original that had Sonic win, so people didn't like that remake... but hey, they aren't _that_ far apart, so it's not so blatant. That basically had boiled down to "they counter each other in everything but speed, and we all know Sonic's faster", a take that was not sufficiently overturned but still means they're close. Here though? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in the episode apart from the official conclusion, was screaming that Ben is the winner. They did a Q+A later? Irrelevant. That's not the episode, and most people aren't even going to pay attention to it. As for points you brought up about Ink's analysis, while the reasoning behind Hal outspeeding the failsafe seems sound, it does nothing without the opportunity, and per DB rules, he can't know enough to have that opportunity beforehand. They got around that by time travel, but the arguments for the Sotobro Effect make it pretty clear that, no, that's not an option. I know you claimed that said effect might have been exaggerated, but that was one claim, not directed at Ink's coverage of it specifically, and gave no counter-explanation... so I have to assume Ink was right on that point.

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, even if an episode has a wrong result if DB gives a sound reasoning for it then there won't be a problem. The phoenix vs raven fight despite being wrong DB gave a reasonable explaining on the analysis so for their general youtube audience who is not as in deep in comics the result makes sense. Ben vs Hal was a huge ball drop from them.

@omarbars

7 ай бұрын

The rematch of Mario vs Sonic very much did have a good argument and the only people were upset were biased to begin with lol

@fnhatic6694

4 ай бұрын

The reason it's disliked is because a bunch of Zoomers who were raised with an iPad as their parents are assmad their crappy cartoon character died.

@nicolewhite3157

Ай бұрын

The only reason Sonic won in the original was the ignorant assumption that power-ups canceled each other out, once this was corrected the team came to the assumption that Mario would win because he could just Spam invincibility power-ups. And that's not even going into how Sonic shouldn't have won by that episodes but Nemesis already explained that

There are three types of people who critique Death Battle. -People who analyze the episode itself, and call out what they liked or didn't like about the animation, writing, and skits. -"My Dad should've beaten your dad and here's why." -"My Dad beat your dad but he should've beaten him harder."

Cool to see folks still talking about this!

@sr.brigadeiro7718

8 ай бұрын

yo thats cool

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

So true.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Like Death and Taxes its Eternal

@Bleeperblopper497

5 ай бұрын

Are you not gonna respond to the criticisms towards you? Nothing you said proved Ben was faster, etc. Hal still outstats Alien X

@anupamamishra88

5 ай бұрын

​@@Bleeperblopper497what do you mean how does the stuff he said doesn't prove it?

I was one of the people that disliked the episode on release but have soften up to it. The reasoning for my hate and maybe others is because Ben represented western animation and was the 2nd Cartoon Network character to appear in a show primarily dominated by combatants from Anime, Comics, and Video games. So seeing representation from my favorite cartoon reignited a spark in me as I didn't even consider Ben 10 for a Death Battle, but him losing made me let emotion rule out reason.

Small correction Alien x clones are as strong as the original The failsafe shockwave doesn't have a cool down (idk where did they get that from) The failsafe was fast enough to catch the BigBang(of a universe that is infinite in size) exploding in bens face I don't know how fast Hal is but is he really that fast ? would like if u tell me and ty Overall i think hal should have won bec he has 1000 of comics so he obviously has More time to develop and shine just not like that i mean come on...

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

an author has claimed that ben's universe is infinite in size, but that's a shakey claim since we've seen the edge of it, and an infinite universe wouldn't have a big bang. however, if we assume that it is true, we'd have to use the same claims about dc's universe. since hal can not only scan the entire universe instantly and even fly from the center past the edge in the space of a single sentence, that'd still make him faster thanks to the smaller timeframe., especially since the universe being much older would mean it had expanded more.

@tpabdo7857

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 ty maybe if they showed us in the animation that Hal moves so fast that time is slowed to Ben or if Hal said I have to be quick or something it would have been clearer since the start Bec the way they make it look like they just forgot about . My only problem with it know is what didn't Alien x follow back Hal? Alien x has two Avatars beligus and seriena who are omniscience they could have told Ben if he didn't realize or the fact that Hal literally says "time huh that's for the tip so Alien x should know his plan

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@tpabdo7857 that would indeed have been a better solution. i'm planning my own animation and hoping to do the fight justice because it's a genuinely interesting matchup to me.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@tpabdo7857 sorry, didn't catch the edits. but serena and bellicus have something LIKE omniscience, but we've seen time travellers sneak up on them and give them the slip before, when paradox broke into their mind-void grabbed ben and left, destransforming them. they didn't see him coming, but they were focused on him when he left. and ben's future self has confirmed that if his past changes, his future ceases to be. between that, hal being MUCH faster and the fact that they will cease to exist without ben and the omnitrix, they were in a bad position. does that make sense?

@tpabdo7857

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 yes but paradox isn't ur average time traveller and still Hal said "time huh thanks for the tip" and celestial sapiens live outside of the multiverses and outside of time it is also supported by the fact that there is one Alien x that all Bens in the multiversus have access too. So again killing him in the past won't do anything ,even by the logic of both shows I believe but that might be a bit to much to ask in my eyes if they made Alien x follow him back then time traveller Hall kills Ben since he knows how fast the failsafe, while the the other Hal holds off Alien x then they both team up and kill him with an explostion ,Thank you for listening to me and answering me logical answers so far and not just saying Hal when Bec he just does

Fun fact: KZread uses the background music on videos to suggest similar content to the video you're watching. Came here from the recommendations on a tally hall video

I like that Kuro is pretty okay with the show now. He even showed up during Bentember in the live chats during the Ben 10 debates, and it was as if the final boss showed up

I think the analysis was the problem, if they had simple said Hal Jordan is multiversal, the DC universe is 100 trillion times bigger than ours... And Hal survived a DC universe complete destruction and DC's big bang... Yeah, I don’t think Alien X can ever reach that level in a single fight. In any case, I think it was a giant presentation problem

I think a lot of the salt was just from ben losing regardless of whether it was right or not. Also doesn't help how fans were expecting beast boy and not green lantern.

There were two interactions that I wanted to see that I was disappointed didn't come up in the animation: Ben has a transformation called Toepick whose entire power set is being so horrifying to look at that it causes basically anyone who looks at it to collapse in fear. He also has Chromastone, whose gimmick is being able to absorb energy/light based attacks and fire them back. Even if neither of those would be enough to make a difference in the final outcome, those were concepts that came to mind for me while waiting for the death battle to come out and it would have been nice to see them as beats within the fight.

@theshatteredseas4629

7 ай бұрын

I wanted to see nanomech into ungrade for some spicy hacking action and if the ring counter either counter-hack or defend against upgrade

@GigaLigma

6 ай бұрын

Multiple of Ben's aliens have the ability to absorb the exact kind of energy Hal projects and he has shown the ability to absorb and redirect universal+ level threats with them. There's also multiple aliens that can make him infinitely smarter than Hal. Then there's Upgrade, the tech manipulator, who could potentially interact with Hal's ring which is advanced technology. The list goes on and on because Ben has such a wide variety of aliens and many of them have extremely unique and creative abilities. They acted like Alien X was his only option then lowballed it, but neither of those things are accurate. It just really showed they didn't even try to accurately research him.

@infernousgaming1393

6 ай бұрын

@@GigaLigma The problem with that is that Alien X really was Ben's only option. All of his other aliens are too slow and/or too weak to keep up with Hal. Also, absorbing the energy of a Green Lantern is pretty difficult since it's actual willpower and is something makes up part of the underlying structure of DC's cosmology. That's to mention that Hal would just... absorb it back or just overpower Ben's absorption through the sheer amount of energy he has (seriously, Hal Jordan has so much willpower that he overpowered Ion, the literal concept of willpower and the entity that grants all Green Lanterns their powers, with his own willpower, and no, I'm not joking). Plus, universe+ level threats are pretty common in DC and are much weaker than Hal, so absorbing that much energy wouldn't really affect him. As for becoming smarter than Hal, ok? That won't really help Ben if he gets speed-blitzed, one-shot, and/or out-haxxed. Plus, isn't Alien X technically smarter? As for Upgrade, Green Lantern tech has resistance to hacking that even multiversal supergenius's in DC can't hack into them, and Hal could just use his Ring to hack back into Upgrade's stuff. Plus, Hal could just make himself a new Ring out of his own willpower if needed (yes, he's done that).

@GigaLigma

6 ай бұрын

@@infernousgaming1393 All any of this does is show that you are a diehard fan of Hal Jordan and know nothing about Ben in comparison. A lot of what you said is true, except when it comes to Ben, because you just flat out do not know anywhere near as much about him. You don't know the speeds of his fastest forms, the intelligence feats of his smartest forms, the energy absorption and redirection feats of his best absorbers; you don't even know that Upgrade has never been shown to be incapable of hacking ANYTHING and is CONSTANTLY used against extremely advanced alien tech or even living tech foes. See, this really annoys me because I'm a big fan of BOTH characters, so reading comments like this from people who obviously know everything about one and absolutely nothing about the other, it's just obnoxious and that's all the actual death battle was too. Even the people doing the episode seemed to know practically nothing about Ben and there's no point even trying to debate with someone who has no idea what they're debating against and doesn't care to learn. Just know that this fight is nowhere near the one-sided stomp it's made out to be by GL stans and TONS of Ben's aliens could give Hal a lot of unique problems you seem oblivious to.

@awesomeguy9513

6 ай бұрын

@@GigaLigmaseriously clockwork, nano mech, upgrade, toe pick, ghost freak, and feedback all have power of some form of manipulation that would mop Hal’s ring. I mean toe pick could put Hal in a forever fear state and just rip the finger off

Honestly. The episode I hate the most is Ultron vs Sigma. And that’s because of ONE LIE. They lied in Ultron rundown, giving him a critical weakness he apparently never had and just “lol noped” that weakness away in the analysis. If it was better explained I could accept it easier. That’s usually when I have real problems with episodes. It’s when they explicitly lie, manipulate info, or explain things horribly. (Although let’s be honest here. The most accurate episode 100% is Eggman vs Wily. No way in hell that confrontation ends any differently. That’s one of my faves.)

@legacyirene832

8 ай бұрын

Actually IIRC the Roboenza in that video doesn't work like in the games (doesn't even look like that, I think) so it also was kind of inaccurate

@omegaaklx303

8 ай бұрын

I actually think the result of eggman vs wily is actually... I think wily winning? I mean quickman is if i'm not misremembering faster than metal sonic, there's robot masters way more crazier than all of eggman's badniks (for example coldman being able to create absolute Zero (pun intended) temperatures, and solar man to create fire hotter than the sun) he just has more fire power, and roboenza isn't really a factor to me because it is dangerous to even wily itself (as shown in megaman 10) and realistically metal sonic isn't going to transform into neo metal sonic because now that the idw comics are canon eggman likely would have removed that feature. But well, it's still pretty darn close with all the final boss machinery that eggman has that give him an edge.

@MultiMario2306

8 ай бұрын

I don’t get your point here, besides giving Ultron a weakness he apparently never had what else was wrong with the analysis because they put everything pretty straight forward

@velvetvessel

8 ай бұрын

i cannot agree with that reasoning yes there's one wrong thing in the episode but the analysis outside of it is pretty good and that fight is fucking awesome

@MultiMario2306

8 ай бұрын

@@velvetvessel Yeah, it’s not it ultimately ruins the episode or post-analysis.

i'm in no way unbiased, but they neglected to mention the fact that all the failsafes are independent of each other, the pulse has a cooldown, but the auto-transform does not, so removing bens arm would have resulted in him becoming an alien that would either be immune to it or regrown the arm, we've also seen bens arm been removed and the omnitrix simply took over it

I never noticed this, but my friend pointed it out to me and I can’t unsee it. The person who wins the battle, is always whoever has the largest number of kilotons of TNT as there power feat.

@infernousgaming1393

6 ай бұрын

It really depends on the episode, but yeah, outstating your opponent is a pretty reliable way of killing them, especially if the combatants don't have much hax at their disposal.

Not having every possible feat mentioned in the analysis isn't due to lack of research, it's simply time constraints and not wanting an hour long DB episode...

I love how insightful and well educated this video is. I love Ben ten, I love it to death, this is one of the episodes that brought me back into death battle and the controversy is just…tiring.

Characters not fighting creatively is something Death Battle constantly struggles with. They use characters that can utilize their powers in unique ways yet all they do is slap each other until one falls over. I’ve been watching them for over a decade and they keep making the same mistakes. They’re not good at what they try to do.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

It takes a lot of time to do something truly awesome and unique especially when it comes to a match like this , it'll take weeks or more of animation to make a 5 minute fight which isn't always worth it when running a show. I wish It was better though

Slight correction I have absolutely no idea where there getting that the failsafe has a cool down unless there's a source for that there is absolutely not a cool down for the failsafe. Furthermore the Omnitrix has been shown to actually be somewhat sentient and was also able to react faster than the big bang and contain it in feedback. Also the failsafe not only can keep Ben alive by transforming into the alien he needs at that moment which by the way the transformations are actually instantaneous the transformation sequences are just for the viewer the failsafe also keeps the Omnitrix from being removed or used by anyone else other than Ben.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

I only mentioned the cooldown because it's what Death Battle said (and even then I thought that Liam should've brought up a scan or clip or something).

@majesticgothitelle1802

8 ай бұрын

​@@JonathanFrostathanthe cooldown was ben 10 doing by just slapping down the Omnitrix either setting a random timer or just ending up with the wrong aliens. Stated in the ben 10 movie by the creator of the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix is able to keep Ben in the aliens for a long period of time or set in the lock mode to keep him in that alien form like in the Omniverse.

can we all agree that homelander vs omniman was 100% right though?

@spacecolonyalliances.c.a1234

7 ай бұрын

Oh definitely, no question here

I think the catch-up thing was how a fight would play out in most scenarios of this same fight, even with DB's animation having Ben leading the fight most of the time. Hal was able to handle all of Ben's forms pretty well, so it's not too hard to imagine that Hal could flip the script on Ben and Ben would be struggling if Hal took the lead in the fight. I also felt like the 'soft debunk' of Alien X was actually just them saying "Hey, just because Alien X can manipulate reality and can create and destroy a universe, it's not like his powers are that unbeatable", with the Annihilarrgh as an example of Alien X's control over reality and kind of likely other abilities not being infallible. I think this was also the first time DB made the argument that the DC universe is larger than our own, and considering what happened with Jean Grey and the 16th death and the Marvel universe being larger after Hulk vs Broly after the voice work was done... I think it's reasonable to say that something like that happened here. Part of me feels like some of these problems are caused because of poor writing due to trying to wrap a head around all the crazy stuff these characters can do and make it into a cohesive argument and scans being cut due to time constraints.

I like how you point out that the Sonic fanbase is "that kind of fanbase", when it's easily one of the most lowballed series on the show. Numerous multiverse-level feats, consistent "the Chaos Emerald are infinite" statements, and they still most recently put a single Chaos Emerald at continental. Just for that jab for absolutely no reason, this video is getting a dislike.

@omegaaklx303

8 ай бұрын

Well. That's your scaling so cool i think, i don't put the chaos emeralds at the level you do but well. It's your scaling. Who cares.

@epiccarrot88

8 ай бұрын

@@omegaaklx303 But you're just wrong. They don't reach that level through scaling alone. They are specifically stated many times by many reputable sources (from Tails to Eggman to Professor Pickle) to contain infinite power. It'd be like saying Mario doesn't beat Bowser, or that Superman doesn't get stronger in the sun.

The reason Alien X was too slow to stop the universe from being destroyed was cause Ben hadn't unlocked Alien X's full capabilities by finally getting the other two personalities of Alien X to cooperate, yet.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

that's possible, but i doubt it. they didn't debate or draw it out, they just immediately told him that it was too late to stop the destruction, even though it as still happening. it's the first time they've ever gotten right to the point, no less. though not the first time the alien personalities were too slow to act, even in the era when they both could override ben by agreeing.

@e2d_rblx

8 ай бұрын

alien x wasnt too slow omg. did you not watch the episode. ben literally said himself why he didnt stop it. damn ppl are so oblivious. ben didnt know it was being destroyed. thats it, period.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@e2d_rblx he actually did. the voices even confirmed it for him, but told him it was too late to do anything about it anyway. the destruction wasn't even done, they just couldn't do anything at this point.

@Bearman851

8 ай бұрын

He literally saw the button get pressed dude... why do you think he changed into Alien X in the first place... and you say I'm oblivious....@@e2d_rblx

@GigaLigma

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I've seen the argument so many times that Alien X is limited based solely on the fact that he can't control it until the very very end of the series. He overcomes the form's limits and this form turns into the strongest celestialsapien in existence due to this.

My personal problem with the episode wasn’t Ben being beaten but instead the way Ben was beaten. Idk shit about GL so if he just beat Ben in some beam struggle or started mollywhopping him then I’d be fine with that since I can’t really argue against the strength of a character I don’t know. BUT the way he beats Ben makes no sense with what we know about Ben10. Alien X should’ve been able to follow him, the Omnitrix should’ve reacted to bens arm being cut off, why was Ben still a child if you’re gonna have Hal fucking murder him?

So much missed opportunity. We could've had a Jetray vs. Hal Jordan in a Jet construct dog fight; Hal's favorite construct is a jet and missiles, because duh he was a hot shot pilot. And biggest missed opportunity, Ben using Toe Pick or Ghost Freak; And Hal surrounded by fear, scoffs, and speaks the GL oath, then he breaks free. It could even tie in to the supernova bit, Hal commenting on how he's also done this several times already.

I really enjoy how in depth you went with your analysis of this episode. And how you ultimately hammered home and greatly emphasized how vs debates are subjective. Honestly, I see too much hate and people ripping each other apart over who would win. It's fine to be passionate about your favorite character... just respect the other person's, my guy.

It's so funny how the Ben sprite were from a bootleg

The ink tank actually did a great breakdown of the episode of death battle and why it got things wrong crucial things wrong in the research. I like Green Lantern and you should really check out Ben 10 from classic all the way up to Omniverse.

@SxM04650

7 ай бұрын

Does he know

I'm kinda late to this since i was just recommended this video, but i personally was a GL fan and ben 10 fan, i loved both of them growing up, and felt kinda bad from the battle, cause from what i remembered of GL growing up he was always more limited. Like every time i picked up GL, in movies, comics and shows he was shown limits way beneath what they gave him in the battle,which made me feel as though i was a fake fan and them not well explaining it made me feel kinda dumb, where as I was given a way clearer picture of ben's abilities in the series. Like I remember many comics where green lanterns hit their limits in doing way more mundane stuff than what death battle showed, like them struggling to create a city construct or hold a planet together or move the earth, them shown being mind controlled multiple times or having green lantern rings be broken or hacked, etc, and yet I never remembered them doing anything more impressive than holding back the big bang. Since The episode I have learnt way more of hal's peak abilities, and i can see where they came from. But it does show that I who read green lantern didn't buy their explainations in episode since they didn't really phrase themselves well, and left me with a confusing/incomplete picture. You basically gave me the missing piece of why i disliked the episode even though i like both characters, they were so bad at explaining it that i didn't believe the episode and didn't feel like i could come to the same conclusion with the evidence they provided.

I went into the episode thinking Hal stomped the entire known Omnitrix and that Alien X would be the great equalizer and just strong enough to pull out a victory. The cheap win in a fashion that just wouldn't work in context of the episode in addition to the explaination being different from what I saw was what made me mad.

The pulse doesn’t have a cooldown it’s anytime Ben is in danger there was an episode where Ben’s arm was removed by his body by his watch as to protect him from harm, in spite of this his was still able to transform. You literally can’t catch the watch slacking

One thing I'd like to add is how stupid the time travel part of the animation was. "I control time" "Time, huh?" *Uses time to kill him* Imagine that with any other character. Aquaman: "I command the oceans" "Oceans, huh?* *Throws water balloon that kills Aquaman* OR Batman: "I fight for my parents" "Parents, huh? Martha." *Batman falls over crying* Naturally that's going to piss some people off.

@calvinkopp1735

6 ай бұрын

There are just so many plot holes with this. First of all, the Omnitrix will instantly activate its failsafes against it’s removal and death of it’s owner, so what makes Death Battle think Hal could bypass this? Also, Present Ben as Alien X would chase after Hal after he time traveled to the past via Sotobro Effect and stop him from killing Past Ben (which is impossible because of anti-death failsafes.) Even if somehow Hal did kill Past Ben, it’s still pointless as Present Ben would still be alive and kicking as Alien X because Celestialsapiens aren’t affected by time and space at all. And according to Paradox in Omniverse, every time you travel to the past you only create a branch of new timelines, therefore leaving the original timelines unchanged. You see there are just so many plot holes and it would so much more for Ben to simply negate Hal’s ring, blink him out instantly and be done with it.

Remember; most comic book superheroes today were created from 1938 to 1978 by dudes on cocaine.

When you started talking about Kuro's videos on the Death Battle, I think you may have missed a few points. 1. It's a Ben 10 video, specifically a video the explains in great detail the inconsistencies and how they low balled Ben. It's not about Green Lantern. It doesn't matter if they didn't or didn't low ball GL when that's not the point. Would it have been helpful to learn? Yes. But it's just not the point. 2. "Nothing Kuro brought up is better than Hal......" **insert feat here**. Okay? And? It's not supposed to be better. It's supposed to be an explanation on the low balling. Even if Alien X's feats aren't better, the true point is to bring up the truth on how Alien X works. The DB team just didn't do their research, and got MANY things wrong. And Kuro basically says, "Yeah, that's not how Alien X works. He does this." Or, "This is his true feat." Or other stuff like that. There may be a few more points, but I just can't think of any right now. If I ever have time in the future to find more points, I'll put edits in. But right now I just don't have time today.

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

Except that he is arguing on Ben being superior to Hal, especially in 2nd and 3rd videos. And there is a good reason why he puts "Debunked" in his thumbnail of the first episode. So if he wants these arguments to stick, he needs to actually succeed in that task. How? By naming feats better than Green Lantern's, meaning he also needs to mention the feats of Green Lantern to show how Alien X's are better. Besides, most of his arguments are faulty anyway, like claiming Alien X is multiversal when that contradicts Alien X's inability to affect universal destruction. Plus Man of Action's official Q&A clearly stating that Alien X isn't multiversal, something Kuro looked out and somehow said it meant Alien X WAS multiversal. Besides, if Kuro can complain that the Death Battle Cast was too Green Lantern focused, we can call him out as a hypocrite for that. Especially when he claims to know more about Green Lantern than Death Battle does Ben 10 when his videos, especially the second one, entirely rely on Green Lantern being a paper mache statue for Ben to beat up.

@ZoneHeart00

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590 Except the fact that he's actually NOT arguing that Ben is absolutely superior in every way. He's always made it clear that his arguments were always about the fact that the DB team had completely low balled Ben's aliens. It's not "Ben is always much more superior than Hal", it's, "Ben is more superior THAN THE TEAM gives him credit for." He puts debunked in the titles to show that the debunking of the power scaling they made for ALL of Ben's aliens, most prominently alien X. The way I see it in general, not even taking anyone's videos into account, is like this: Alien X alone as his powerful alien self, at his FULL POWER is far more superior to any human in terms of power. But that's just HUMANS. As far as the Green Lantern power ring goes, that is the power source that allows the HUMAN Hal to conduct all of the amazing feats that he did. He could never just bs his way through anything with just willpower alone without the ring being there to form constructs to AIM his willpower. He can't magically make a green drill appear from thin air just because he wills it, he needs the ring. Alien X, on the other hand, is not bound by any restrictions. Not even being a sample of DNA stored in Ben's Omnitrix. Alien X can exist and survive without being "in" the Omnitrix. And I don't believe it's Alien X's on screen feats that make him superior, but rather his CAPABILITIES. He can rewrite time, recreate and destroy the universe, he can make people appear and vanish in an instant. The only 1 restriction that Alien X has is the fact that he has 3 different personalities (2 without Ben, and then Ben himself) that need to vote on everything. And even then, he can freeze time long enough to allow all personalities to vote, then when a conclusion is made he unfreezes it. But even then, as I said previously, it was never about being more superior than a Green Lantern or even more superior than Hal. It was just about showing the fact that Death Battle Did Ben MEGA dirty in many different ways. I'm not saying any of these capabilities alone will always allow Ben to win. Who knows, maybe Hal has something up his sleeve that allows him to say, "Screw this guy's capabilities. I can do more than him." I will freely admit I don't know much about GL, so I just have no clue. However, Ben 10 Alien Force and Ben 10 Ultimate Alien give a wide variety of feats that the DB team didn't even go over or think of considering. Just as well, they got some things mixed up here and there. Not to mention the fact that they completely got some of the powers wrong on occasion (in terms of how they work).

@ZoneHeart00

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590 Btw, the whole "inability to affect universal destruction" thing..... Yeah, actually Alien X CAN do that. But CHOSE not to. Ben created so many great ways to save the universe, and the other 2 said, "No." That's it. They just said no to everything. It's not that they CAN'T, it's that they intentionally chose not to.

I disagree with Raven vs Phoenix's result ( I still rooted for Raven ) and I was REALLY REALLY shocked with the result and didn't find the conclusion good, then I realized wow comics are fucked and moved on

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

Yeah that is kind of DB's thing. Even if the result is wrong, and raven winning is wrong, is their analysis that matters and if you don't buy it well, nothing bad happens. You just disagree and that is all there is.

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

@@oceanoman Not really given that Phoenix controls life force, a higher version of soul manipulation, and the fact that it is capable of protecting Jean's soul which is how she revives, plus it was easily capable of burning Thor's soul so the whole point of the phoenix not being able to finish Raven off isn't true, neither are the stats since if it wasn't for Jim Corrigan who bonded with him, giving Raven the opportunity the win, white phoenix being on a similar level as something like Specter and argueably above it should tell you how outclassed Raven was in stats, and lets not talk about Unkindness vulnerability to time traveling foes. Also the speed calc was iffy at best but none of that really matters though since what counts is what DB shows and with the analysis that they did the majority of the audience, like you, will have no issue seeing Raven winning inspite of it being a wrong result when you read the comics.

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

@@oceanoman If you actually read the comics you would have known that Spectre was dunking on her and throwing everything back at her, she was about to die so allow me to take your "i've read the comics mate" with a pinch of salt. 2. Raven attacked him while he was vulnerable and let the other demons do the rest. She basically only finished the job while he was already down. You sure you read the comics bro? And it is very neat that you remember all of that, but this only makes her content at the same level of the phoenix when at full power. Considering that the phoenix controls life force and that is life and death across everywhere at marvel this only means that Raven has a chance at hurting the phoenix, not beat it. 3. Even if Raven regenerates so does Phoenix, so the battle ends, at best for Raven, in a stalemate since she doesn't has the power to match being on the same level as phoenix, pretty much like Specter. 4. Even if Raven can time travel she is still vulnerable to it. Unkindness's defeat involved time travel and a being above all realities, concepts, literal writing narrative while it lives in it's own made up space like the white phoenix can easily do that and alter future events so that Raven won't have unkindness again, not like it needed to since it outclasses Raven greatly unless you give the goth chick all beneficts of the doubt and ignore all the anti feats against her while ignoring the Phoenix's abilities for convenience then yes, phoenix losses.

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

@@oceanoman Which doesn't make much sense, Raven still has a lot of stamina, if asmodeus was even remotelly close to Specter then Raven would have been easily handled. So no, not in the same tier. Unless we take character statements as 100% true while ignoring that this is a comic and characters can be boastful and lie.

@nehen2225

8 ай бұрын

@@oceanoman 2.Ok, so in other words Neron is not that impressive, since he is weaker than Trigon, so it was pointless to even bring him up. 3. All those characters have different and vastly power levels, you yourself admited it when saying that Neron defeated Trigon. No reason to bring these up since yeah, none of them scale to beings like the phoenix, unless you believe that Trigon is on the same tier as Spectre which is constantly showed to not be the case, as much as the writers say the two are equal Trigon never does things that suggest he is near the Spectre. Even if two characters have the same power doesn't means they are equal, for example white phoenix has better control than unkindness raven ever had over souls since it controls life force, raven only deals soul hax and that is not enough. 4. Cool, Raven doing her best can match something the phoenix does casually, existing outside of reality, and still having time travel being part of what stopped her by being below her power, so for white crown phoenix that is easy and the fire bird wins. 5. "By death metal statements" has no reason to be believable. Word of god/author can only be considered when it doesn't contradicts what happens, if it's believable and it doesn't includes something ridiculous. Asmodeus being equal ti Spectre makes no sense since Raven was totally outmatched and about to die when Spectre decided go not play around with her anymore. If she was a bit tired (she wasn't) then it shouldn't have been so one sided but it was. This means that whatever statements an author makes doesn't means it is true. Frankly I have a very hard time believing that you actually read the comics and not some battle boarding site with scans like GameSpot, Comic Vine or VS Battle Wiki :/

Well murdering a child ain't exactly heroic.

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

Is a child murdering a police officer heroic?

@MrRonald327

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590: Ever heard of self-defense?

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

@@MrRonald327 And Hal, as a policeman, already had a warrant: he knew how dangerous the Omnitrix is and come to confiscate it.

@MrRonald327

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590: That’s kinda my point. He could’ve just taken the watch after cutting his arm off and brought him to a hospital but he had to be an asshole and kill him.

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

@@MrRonald327 It's called DEATH Battle. Did you not read the sign? Also, Hal's ring can be pulled back to himself and attach to any part. One Green Lantern used his tongue to hold and use his ring. So killing Ben is better safe than sorry based on his own experience with advanced and powerful technology.

What i hate about this argument as a whole is that ben 10 fans say that ben should have won and give reasoning but most people on hal's side just do not say anything other than you are wrong without giving reasoning, they are right but boy they don't want to look like it

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, for sure. Hal supporters do act really snarky about this debate for no reason.

@autisonm

8 ай бұрын

Yeah this kinda leads to the situation I have where I dont know any feats for the Green Lantern ring in specific that arent directly tied to Hal. I understand Hal uses it really well but I dont know what it's generally capable of and in comparison to what I know the Omnitrix can do it makes it seem like the Omnitrix and it's semi-sentience is just stronger than the average ring. Plus I've yet to see anyone properly explain how Hal could survive instant erasure. He survives non-instant erasure, sure, but that required him to summon his willpower and act against it. Something he wouldnt be able to do to Alien X's instant erasure.

@christianjacobs2193

8 ай бұрын

​@@autisonmyeah because he was off screen for the crisis. John Stewart was the actual one there

@autisonm

8 ай бұрын

@@christianjacobs2193 Huh?

@AJ_Animationss

8 ай бұрын

ben still solos

Honestly, I've seen more people hate on Tifa vs Yang than this one. Rightfully so.

@e1iteyoshi998

8 ай бұрын

Well to be fair at least the team acknowledged they got that one wrong. Like what happened with Peach vs Zelda in season 1.

@demonslayer5122

8 ай бұрын

@@e1iteyoshi998 True. Doesn't make the episode any less unbearable though.

First there’s a biff weed review, than DigitalTy’s season 8 premiere later today. And now an almost half hour long review on one of my favorite episodes. Not a half bad day for death battle fans.

@kirbystar7474

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for notifying me on digitalty.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

And I think Galactic Attorney's review should arrive later tonight or maybe tomorrow. Either, Death Battle fans are eating good.

@gribblegrape6496

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanFrostathan yeah lol

@gribblegrape6496

8 ай бұрын

@@kirbystar7474 your welcome 👍🏻

@GamerXZ0

8 ай бұрын

​@@kirbystar7474"Ty, huh? Thanks for the tip!"

Something I've always wondered about that death battlle: What about Ben's ability to use the omnitrix to modify the DNA of an entire race on voice command? Couldn't he use that to turn Green latern into a bug? Just like Dr. Animo did with a single piece of the omnitrix in one of the episodes of the original series.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

when is it said to have the ability to modify an entire species at will? didn't animo have to build an entire machine to amplify it and acheive that specific power? hal's specifically genetic tampering by cosmic god weapons before and can actually do the same thing, i'm just curious about the omnitrix power.

@giboit.

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 Ben literally used voice command to modify the DNA of the entire Highbreed race in the finale of alien force. And has accidentally modified Kevin and Gwen, his own parents in the movies, Rook, many plumber trainees, villains and even Azmuth himself. And future Ben can even fuse alien species. Keep in mind that Dr. Animo managed to use this ability of the Omnitrix to modify DNA just by having one single piece of the omnitrix to work with. Now imagine the power that Ben has to modify DNA of others in an instant with the entire Omnitrix at his disposal.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@giboit. fair enough, it still likely wouldn't do much in this situation, and completey drained the battery when we saw it, but you are completely right that it can alter an entire species. i wouldn't call the fusion thing the same though, it's just editing the archetypes the omnitrix uses to transform ben.

@giboit.

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 It only runs out the battery when it's used on universal scale, like in the case of the Highbreeds. It can totally modify the DNA of single individual as if it was nothing without issues. And I think the fusion feature is relevant because it massively increases Ben's potential in battle.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@giboit. wfair enuogh, it still wouldn't actually do anything to someone who can resist genetic modification or alteration to his personal reality. and the fusion feature would be an interesing addition, but wouldn't change much. hal has pretty much all of ben's powers, but can use more at once, even with the fusion feature, without sacrificing any power to do so. would have been cool to see though.

"The most hated Death Battle episode" Goku vs Superman: Hold my beer

My biggest problem with the Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan is they literally ignored Ben's other powerhouse aliens, main one being Feedback. A couple of recent Death Battles upset me, the first one being the lack of Vader's powers and the canon of Star Wars itself, second was disrespecting Midoriya's tatical mind, and lastly the battlefield for James Bond vs John Wick because it should have never been in the Continental.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Continental? What's that about? I can get behind the other two, but idk too much about the Continental.

@RealB0ssMak3r

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanFrostathan the Continental is a safe haven for all assassins, but you cannot do any kind of business on Continental grounds, from injuring someone to straight up killing them. The punishment for breaking that law is death.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

@@RealB0ssMak3r So that explains the "killing isn't permitted on company grounds" line. Not sure why Bond says "lucky me" now that I think about it. Thanks for elaborating.

@RealB0ssMak3r

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanFrostathan no problem, but Bond is now running for the rest of his life. No one will be able to help him.

@dynamicender

8 ай бұрын

​@@RealB0ssMak3ralso doesn't help that like when they use a marvel or DC character they mash all incarnations of the character into one like of course the character with more sources to draw from has the fucking advantage and is gonna win

Hal is able to be scaled to the feats of every other Lantern, since they all wield the same weapon, namely the Power Ring. If you have enough willpower, (and Hal does indeed), then you can accomplish the same feats. Simple really.

I feel like a major reason people were dissatisfied with the results is that this episode felt disrespectful towards Ben 10 considering this episode was released around the height of Ben 10's popularity in vs discussions only for death battle to go "oh the guy who you consider to be stronger than superman? Nah, his ass can't even beat Green Lantern" without really explaining it properly. That's the thing, there are plenty of newer episodes where they took characters the internet believes to be invincible, only to have them lose, like Archie Sonic and Saitama, the difference is that those episodes had a satisfying explanation as to why those characters lost, the biggest example I can think of being in Flash vs Sonic, I fully expected Sonic to win. The difference is, the conclusion made perfect sense, so after listening to it I went "yeah, that makes sense" and gained a new appreciation for Wally West. In this they went "nah, Ben 10 isn't that powerful, he's not even universal in the absolute worst reasoning ever, and all those super OP abilities he has? Pshhhh, no big deal, they just won't work". They didn't go into full detail on valid reasons why GL would win (which I do believe) like lantern rings being the most complex technology ever, way more advanced than the omnitrix, Green Lantern's ability onto HOW he could get around the failsafes, and his experience with celestial beings beyond alien x. Basically, instead of bringing GL up, it felt like they were putting Ben 10 down, and with their incredibly faulty reasonings, it also made them look super non credible. VS debates are subjective, yes, but you still need valid reasons as to why a character won or lost. It's why, despite disagreeing with a lot of episodes like Hulk VS Broly, I can at least respect and understand where they're coming from and hold it much higher than an episode like Frieza vs Megatron or this one, which I still agree with the results, but their reasonings were so bad I view the episode in a bad light. I do understand why the verdict does mean so much to a lot of people, and to me personally, while it's not the biggest contributing factor of enjoyment, it still is a big one, whether that be objective reasonings like reasonable conclusions, or subjective ones like my preferred character not getting their ass kicked. Obviously it's not the only thing I value, otherwise a season as great as season ten would be my least favorite season due to how often my preferred character lost this season, but at the end of the day, death battle asks a question of who would win in the fight, and in that regard, the thesis does have understandable importance, and if someone has major issues with it, then it's perfectly reasonable why they are unhappy with the whole episode. Like I said though, in the end, it's not the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't even say it's the most important thing, otherwise an episode with a terrible verdict and conclusion, but everything else being great like Frieza vs megatron would be an episode I hate more than Korra VS storm, which is my actual least favorite episode of death battle, despite the verdict being the only thing about the episode that isn't absolute fucking dogshit.

@justinalicea1590

5 ай бұрын

They never claimed Alien X wasn't universal. Just that he was ONLY universal. Alien X did survive universal destruction and recreate the universe, but it is a fact that Alien X couldn't affect universal destruction. Which is kind of important when he's going up against Green Lantern, whose own feats and scaling at a universal level are about stopping universal destruction. All they needed to establish was that Alien X was not the omnipotent god that people treated him as, and they did. And that is what everyone is butthurt about. And what OP abilities? The erasure they gave Alien X is entirely a theoretical power that Ben has never used. Which means they were being nice to Ben's arsenal for Alien X, as what else does he have? Telekinesis, mine control that Hal is immune to, reversing time that doesn't change the match-up and duplication, which Hal could also match with his constructs. Alien X doesn't actually have many abilities, and it really is that. No matter what theoretical powers "reality warping" fits under, Ben literally couldn't figure out how to fight a giant Galactic Gladiator. You know, the same Ben who saw Way Big villains and went Way Big? He didn't even come up with duplication using his knowledge of his other aliens that can, he just stumbled across it as an answer when arguing with Bellicus and Serena for going back on his own deal for full control. The hype around Archie Sonic is because of his actually presented abilities and feats. Same with Saitama. The hype around Alien X was entirely fictionalized by people ignoring what Ben the character does with it and all about what THEY, the audience, could come up with Alien X doing. Or propped up by taking any Word of God scrap they could and blowing it up as much as possible, something Duncan Rouleau helped a lot with, no matter how contradictory it was to the show.

Actually the part about about Omnitrix mutation because being of it is over used wasn’t actually because of Kevin. Bit instead mention as a text as a “did you know fact” as a extra thing in a DVD from the Ben 10 shows franchise (just like how they brought up how Toph can feel earth that isn’t connected to the ground. But Ben 10 VS Green Lantern they don’t show where it comes from). I remember this because someone posted a screenshot of of the fun fact text on Reddit around 1.5 years ago. I can’t actually show the screenshot because I haven’t actually been able to find it myself and I didn’t download the picture of the screenshot on my phone, and I don’t think I have a chance to find the post again after so long time.

@DJPrimeAmvs

8 ай бұрын

They likely got that information from a flashback in omniverse, where Azmuth said that relying on one form too much could cause him lack control with others OR from the reboot when the omnitrix had was broken and kept rotating between aliens and Phil said "there's no DNA signature for Ben". Tldr....they misinterpreted information...shocker

anybody know any other vs channels that did this match-up, because i would love to see a longer video that can fully analyze both Hal and Ben, since i feel as just a few minutes isn't enough to explain such complex characters.

Correction: there were a lot of Ben 10 scaling AFTER this.

Didn’t you think it was weird how alien x, a being that exists outside of the universe, is somehow affected by someone else’s time traveling? It just feels weird to me that he can just go back to before he transformed, when that shouldn’t theoretically be possible, also the fact that he survived the Big Bang purely because of the omnitrix acting on its own

@mauricereticau6292

8 ай бұрын

Because existing outside the universe is not really a feat. It doesn't grant you any special powers. I don't even know how this misconception came to be. By that logic so many normal humans in DC would be unaffected by someone else's time traveling.

@theshatteredseas4629

7 ай бұрын

​@@mauricereticau6292existing beyond our universe really isn't a feat, though sotobro effect from alien X and chronosapiens do counter this specific instance

@shadowsmith841

7 ай бұрын

Their whole race are born in a plane beyond the multiverse and space time. Alien X is practically immune to the effects of time that includes time travel. It's also weird why he didn't just follow Hal through the time stream

@kwalterrasquinha413

7 ай бұрын

@@mauricereticau6292 thats why the universe disintegrating had absolutely no effect on alien X, thats like saying the beyonder existing outside the multiverse had no effect on his power stupid logic

@mauricereticau6292

7 ай бұрын

@@kwalterrasquinha413 That's not how that works at all. Existing outside something doesn't mean anything. You need to actually show you have multiversal durability for it to be true. We know he has universal durability because he actually did tank that. But until explicitly proven, he is not multiversal in any way.

Alien X literally exists outside of time and space. Not only did he not notice the universe being erased, but he also took zero damage from it and just effortlessly brought it back. Basically, even if Ben was attacked in the past as long as he was still alien X, nothing should have phased him, and once he noticed, he just went back in time and killed green lantern while he was enjoying his victory and then just brought himself back to life with time manipulation and called it a day. The whole fight just feels like a gag at the end that makes no sense, but people are expected to take it seriously

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

1) Celestialsapeian age 2) Hal has Universal and Multiversal+ attack power

@keshang_laow8325

8 ай бұрын

@l0sts0ul89 so does alien X. And even though he has all this "power," he still couldn't win and decided to travel back in time and kill Ben before the fight even started like a bitch

@Bleeperblopper497

4 ай бұрын

@@keshang_laow8325 Nope, in the Q&A Liam shows ManofAction stating that Celstialsapiens are incapable of Multiversal feats outside of doing it together asa group

Some of my problems with the battle is how they explain certain stuff like the failsafe saying it has a cool down, saying the sotobro effect wouldn’t work, and how they backed up some of their arguments at the end of the death battle with stuff they didn’t use but it was still cool to watch

Talks shit about ink tank and proceeds to say he’s a great man

@justinalicea1590

6 ай бұрын

Because there is a difference between someone being a cool person and having terrible videos.

@Vindication1134

6 ай бұрын

You could be a great man personally, but that means nothing when we're dealing with facts and logic.

No matter what, I will always hate Death Battle with as much hate as to THEM

Also, Alien X didn't stop the universe destruction. Because Ben was busy debating with Serena and Bellicus

I remember reading the 5yl comic and reading "tine huh?" and it was the best feeling I've ever gotten reading a comic

Ben's omnitrix has been shown to prevent limb removal, and even in the instance of the limb being removed, the omnitrix has just taken over bens body. The omnitirx isnt jus lt a watch. it's an intelligent ai that has adapted to multiple instances like the Big Bang or getting crushed under objects

@TahtGuyNamedKen

8 ай бұрын

So what I'm trying to get here is that, the omnitrix doesn't only have one fail safe. It has multiple

@mauricereticau6292

8 ай бұрын

It has never been shown to prevent limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not chopping his whole arm off with the omnitrix still on it. And that was because Sunder did not actually chop off Ben's flesh and blood, His hand was dimensionally separated but still physically connected, which is why he can still feel it when other people are touching his severed hand. This does not prove the omnitrix can do anything if someone actually cuts his arm off normally without any dimensional displacement nonsense. Ben had no control over his transformations in that state. Other people needed to pick up the omnitrix and mess with its controls to change Ben. The limb removal failsafe simply does not exist.

38:03 Hey, that’s happened to me twice so far! Great video by the way. Can’t wait for the rest of Season 6’s retrospective.

I was annoyed back in the day at the fact Ben lost but these days I'm over it. The only real thing that bugs me about how DB did Ben is; 1. His portrayal 2. Analysis of Ben and battle's aftermath besides the ending imo the fight was actually pretty lit and the music was awesome

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

Plus, everything in the prelude basically said "Ben's gonna win this. It's gonna be tough, but Ben's got a slight edge in enough places where he can pull the win" And then they had Hal do something he's never done before in any iteration to pull a win, and it felt like an ass-pull

@DW9427

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 yea fr

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 Yea fr

i can't lie, when you talked about the Ring and it allegedly having better failsafes than the Omnitrix the first thing i thought of was the panels shown at minute 25:33. even if it does have failsafes, and even if they're better than the Omnitrix, they seemingly don't work against Nigh-Omnipotent beings. if Dr. Manhattan can get past the failsafes of a Ring, so can Alien X.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Alien X isn't Dr Manhattan

@strider_hiryu850

8 ай бұрын

@@l0sts0ul89 i know that. but they're about equivalent in terms of power.

@wiggard

8 ай бұрын

​@@l0sts0ul89 And Green Lantern can't beat Ben either.

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

​@@strider_hiryu850 No they aren't, when has Alien X one shot a chick who can kill multiversal beings? Who has Alien X scared a guy who can think awAy the universe and makes New God's look like a joke?

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

​@@wiggard Only if you ignore everything Hal has done then sure.

This video felt like a genuine analysis and retrospective on the GL vs. Ben 10 Death Battle all up until the analysis of Kuro the Artist's take on the same video. Once he got to that point, it just felt like he was an angry Green Lantern fan yelling at a Ben 10 fan, and it just screamed bias. Yeah, Kuro is a huge part of the Ben 10 community and obviously has bias, but Johnny here judt seems to be doing the exact same thing Kuro did, and simply enforcing his Green Lantern bias and getting upset at someone trying to debunk the fact his prefered character won. I definitely think both sides have valid arguments as to why one over the other should've won, but maybe have an open mind to the other sides arguments, and this goes to Johnny and Kuro, instead of just pulling out the "Nuh uh" card and screaming at the top of your lungs that the other side is just straight up wrong 23:31

@JonathanFrostathan

7 ай бұрын

I definitely understand your side and agree with you, but the example you went with was more of a joke thing btw. I think that there are better examples you could've gone with. Also, that was definitely not the top of my lungs. I've gone way higher than that in the past. Also, what "Green Lantern bias"? I literally say that I'm neutral on the debate and that Hal isn't one of my favorite DC characters lol.

The problem I had with this death battle is they decided to use one character at his peak and another at his weakest.

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

Yes. Ben was taken at his best with the complete Omnitrix while Hal was put only at universal without other power boosts like Krona's gauntlet or being a White Lantern.

@gh0stx0.1-4

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590 True but they use Ben’s feats from the newer series (or when he was older) but use kid ben and his omnitrix. It made me feel like they choose characters out of random.

@justinalicea1590

8 ай бұрын

@@gh0stx0.1-4 Did you not watch this video? This video fully calls out that the best available Ben sprite is one from a Sega console bootleg game. This is well proven by how pixelated Alien Force Ben's sprite is in his battle with Danny Phantom. And that's without mentioning that 10-year-old Ben Tennyson is the most nostalgic and iconic version of Ben 10, the same reasoning why they used the Classic aliens. That's why Omniverse both remakes Ben and the rest to being more like their classic selves and plays back to having episodes in that time frame. That's THE Ben people think about.

@gh0stx0.1-4

8 ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590 yea I realized that after making my comment but i still think it feel like the match up was still out of random and the reasoning for choosing these characters to fight was because they green. But thats just my opinion because just by looking at the thumbnail I can tell that Ben would’ve lost. They could’ve been better match ups between these characters like ben 10 vs beast boy would’ve made more sense. Also they had more sensible match between characters during that time like thanos vs darksaeid

@Belanduraz

Ай бұрын

@@justinalicea1590 literally every alien in that episode except Alien X was from the Prototype Omnitrix. They didn't have sprites for aliens like Way Big so why couldn't they just have him use another alien in the same matter, especially since Ben has the master control in this battle?

I was not expecting him to use The Mind Electric as background music like what

I’m a huge Ben10 fan and I’ll admit I was upset for a bit when Ben lost. I eventually got over that, but still had gripes about the episode. They continuously used statements by Derrick (who isn’t even a writer or creator) that nerfed Ben, they contradict themselves sometimes, and it felt like they didn’t really understand Ben as a whole. It seemed like they only picked Ben because they thought it would give them more views and content.

@raihothexiv15th37

8 ай бұрын

No, they did the episode because they WANTED HAL TO LOOSE. It’s not that hard.

@raihothexiv15th37

7 ай бұрын

@@tobymulema4430 They didn’t make him loose because they decided to go with facts instead of ACTUAL bias.

@JetstreamTheSexSam

5 ай бұрын

​@@raihothexiv15th37they literally killed Ben in a way that the show shows is impossible

@raihothexiv15th37

5 ай бұрын

@@JetstreamTheSexSam The animation is only for entertainment. Realistically, Hal one shots him.

@JetstreamTheSexSam

5 ай бұрын

@@raihothexiv15th37 uh no

21:09: Okay I’m going to interject with the fights you’ve picked Blake vs. Mikasa is overhated, to the point people think it’s biased to RoosterTeeth and RWBY, which wtf, bro, that doesn’t matter, this is a popular matchup and a lot of people love it, yes the episodes has flaws but it’s still enjoyable. In fact, it made Youronlynate happy that he got his dream episode and my girlfriend loves this episode because she loves Blake, you can say I have a lot of leniency for this particular matchup Android 18 vs. Captain Marvel: Yes, it has issues especially in showing that 18 is more powerful than Carol, I could be misremembering I’m sorry, it has some enjoyable moments and that’s all it has Thor vs. Raiden: Yes, this is a Season 1 episode but practically one of those fun episodes in terms of enjoyability with the fight Korra vs. Storm: Matchup idea dumb, should’ve been Rey yes, is it enjoyable, yeah, one of some good Avatar episodes, yes she gets curb-stomped by Storm, but it’s still another enjoyable episode, and another where I had leniency Venom vs. Crona: Yes, there are some issues but it’s one of the better Venom episodes compared to his last one, even with some of the problems, it’s a decent episode to watch Sanji vs. Rock Lee: Yes, butchering Lee’s characterization, bad, going by some of his 8 Gates, rushed, but I still like this episode, choreography, the death and the whole fight was enjoyable

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

I'm referring to them as matchups not as episodes. I also included Ryu vs Scorpion on there despite it being one of my favorite episodes of the show.

@reptisaurusking8494

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanFrostathan Sorry my bad

@AwesomeMooseSmile

4 ай бұрын

Honestly I'm kind of glad they didn't use Rey because, as much as I like the character, the analysis in Korra vs Storm was SUPER bad, and I don't want to see a universe where they describe every Rey feat by screaming "QUEEN SHIT" like an out of character white woman. Also I'm pretty certain that the comment section would have been the most toxic and disrespectful of any DB video regardless of if she won or not, I mean even the more recent DBC of Kylo Ren vs Edelgard was pretty nasty.

I very much feel like kuro saying he would rather have the episode not be made had much less to do with the episode then the response from people to the episode, but also i wouldn't be surprised if im wrong either.

Okay couple things: 1: Ben Singer never said he was a fan of Ben 10, I’m pretty sure he deliberately said he didn’t know anything about Ben 10 back on death battle cast (I believe it was the one with the community Death Battle Cast “Ben 10 Vs. Ten Ben Singers” back in DBC’s early days). Maybe he learned about it during research and enjoyed the show, but where exactly are you getting that from, was it the QnA itself? 2: I thought the sprites were from the Cartoon Network flash game “Battle Ready”? Maybe I’m mistaken (since I’m looking through the sprites now on another tab) 3: “I’m schizophrenic” references Alien X’s multiple personalities and maybe Hal Jordan’s decent into madness as a Parallax, but that’s a bit offensive if you ask me. 4: Mandrakk was defeated by multiple Green Lanterns on low power and multiple alternate universe Supermen’s heat vision burning him alive. Hal was not alone in the assault. 5: The U-Bomb was a device that would condense the universe down to a a quark, Hal Jordan disarmed it and the resulting deffusion gave off the energy equivalent of a supernova. I have no idea why Death Battle used that to support Universal Scaling when there are other far better examples and one of the reasons why I’m pretty pissed at them for it. You know besides Hal Jordan “ARRESTING GOD”. 6: Alien X can resist the effects of Time-Line Destruction because he literally survived the destruction of the universe, Time and Space included in that. (Confirmed by Duncan Roulo and addition CN comic sources). Thought I’d bring that up as well. 7- BIG ONE HERE: It’s pronounced Kuro (Kur-O) The Artist, The Ink Tank is the LLC company that he created out of his channel. I do actually agree with you that Kuro did straight up ignore a lot of the stats for Hal, I wish he had addressed them. But Liam did ignore a lot for Ben in episode and even on the QnA and even falsely addressing the context for Hal’s feats (yet two wrongs don’t make a right do they 😑) I actually don’t like Kuro’s 3rd video he made about the DB very much, for all the reasons you listed, but you did leave out how Liam literally got fact checked by Kuro playing the clip of how the Sotobro Effect works, which is where I feel his resentment comes from. But I don’t think there was any malicious or ill intent towards Death Battle shown in Kuro’s videos. Yet there is some condescension I wish wasn’t there and I do really wish he power scaled Hal Jordan. Just to be fair. I really agree with you there. As a Death Battle, Ben 10 and Ink Tank fan, I actually liked this video and the evidence you brought up. I agree with like 60% of your points and even look back on some of my own research despite my still heard beliefs. But to answer your question at the end: the verdict matters (at least in a conventional sense of trying) because the show’s literal tagline is “It’s our job to analyze their weapons, armor and skills to find out who would win a death battle”, and anything less of that (to me) would be considered misinformation (which apparently has previously happened before as you stated with Guts Vs. Nightmare). I especially have a problem with low balling characters on all fronts which I’m glad now they’re trying to manage, but when episodes become more unreliable like this and only have their great fights and music (Emerald Heroes is just the best track), it just becomes another "Vs Show" like Super Power Beat Down or Minute Melee or even DBX. It doesn’t feel right, and even for Ben to win or lose doesn’t matter, all that mattered was their execution of the information and portrayal of the characters. Which even for Ben he seems written a bit more juvenile for liking, but still. I do still watch and enjoy Death Battle A LOT, but they’ve lost more of my trust more than Kuro has here. They’ve been on air for years, growing with a production pipeline, there was no reason for the final analysis to be this sloppy and to pull a time travel misdemeanor. I saw my old blog was also shown in your montage here- 31:17 Its kind of outdated and some of the information and opinions I held at the time I don’t stand by now, but I’d recommend giving it a readover, some of the stuff Death Battle even mentioned is in there and I hoped to go into more of GL's feats than what Kuro did: comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/death-battle-ben-10-vs-green-lantern-my-thoughts-2023537/ I also did Ben 10 Powerscaling (so you know, I’ll claim my bias there): kzread.info/head/PLms4jgyiXKuQd9NtC3wgr6mCnR368y3cT

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

I pronounced Kuro the way I did because of my inner weeb. Also, the idea of Hal Jordan "arresting God" sounds very funny to me. XD

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

that's not how the u bomb was defeated. it was disarmed by being shunted into hal's pocket dimension ring universe, which survived the full detonation, though that did set up future storylines. mandraak flat out ignored the effects of multiple supermen's heat vision until hal staked him. it's not the only time he's killed an immortal either. and hal only used other green lanterns to refill his power, which has established precedent in the series. also, the series establised that the anihlaarg ONLY affected space, not time. he's never survived timeline destruction and it's not consistent with how other beings outside of time handle the situation. and no, the sotobro effect doesn't trace all time travellers. if it did, ben would be able to tell that eon travelled back in time, vilgax and eon wouldn't be able to evade paradox and most relevant of all, paradox wouldn't be able to sneak up on alien x. he also wouldn't be capable of reching or affectig alien x if he were completely outside time, for that matter, since he's admitted he can't go, forexample, before the beginning of time, and that time travellers lose their powers if they leave time altogether. i respect what you're trying to say, but i lost a lot of faith i debunks because of this fight, especially when it comes to alien x. who's scaling borders on it's own entire canon in the eyes of it's fans. i am familiar with your rundown, but there are a number of assumptions, and logical gaps that mean i cannot agree with it.

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

I definitely agree with this take.

@lopresti101

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 U-Bomb: In The Green Lantern #6 and #7, Hal was blasted into his ring’s own micro universe which was dying as a result of a low charge, which his being there was caused by the U-Bomb. However it’s confirmed by Hal- “There was a U-bomb. I had to disarm it. Guardians diverted the entire out put of the Central Battery through my power ring-shot us into deep space- enough energy to kill me, but the ring-the ring would do anything to keep me alive-" There are better examples for Hal Jordan’s Universal scaling, but this Hal has aid from other lanterns, their lights literally flickering throughout the universe because of the power diversion. And Adam Strange at Hal’s funeral says the energy recorded was 10-to the 44th power joules, which is a supernova, confirmed in Death Battle: Captain Marvel Vs. Shazam. HE DISARMED IT. I am so done with this conversation point. Mandrakk: Mandrakk was getting burned and visibly effected by multiple blasts of heat vision in Final Crisis. Hal also had aid from other lanterns on low power in one last effort, not to refill his power, they did it together “So gimme one last effort team, ALL TOGETHER, AND SPIKE THIS VAMPIRE!”. Superman would have been killed if they had’t all showed up. Annialarg: While I can agree with inconsistencies of both Ben 10 and Hal Jordan lore, respectfully speaking….where are you getting the Annialarg information from? Because I can tell you…it’s false: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1667561066207801347 The Sotobro Effect: I’ve addressed this before here, but even then, it doesn’t matter. The timeline destruction point means that Alien X would be unaffected by Time Travel: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687267851382509568?s=20 and twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687280185953968128?s=20 Thoughts on your final statement: In all seriousness, I don’t care who wins anymore and I hate the debate now. I’m more pissed at some members of Death Battle for egging on this type of argument continuously and it’s pointlessness to both ends of Ben 10 and Green Lantern, which speaks volumes to the community at large. And yet I still defend Ben despite Duncan Roulou practically shooting himself in the foot saying “Alien-X-Stinction” is canon to Ben Prime. Where Alien X gets beat by Fourarms. So sure, Hal wins. Maybe. But if you’re talking about my blog or videos for “assumptions” or “logical gaps”, you’re probably right on some of it and I don’t stand by them strongly for those reasons now. I give you full marks for that and any error I find out or miss. But not to put too fine a point on it, you just said my statements on the U-Bomb, Mandrakk, Annialarg, and the Sotobro Effect were misconstrued…when they weren’t (unless future comic events in the Grant Morrison run do cover the U-Bomb for future storylines that I just don't know about). So I can’t really agree with you considering your “deliberately choosing the weakest possible outcome” for those events (Annialarg and Sotobro Effect).

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

​@@lopresti101 thank you for replying and for adressing my points individually, you are correct about the u bomb, thank you for bringing these points to my attention and i apologize. however, i similarly stand by my statements about the anihlaarg and the sotobro effect, the wiki is referring to a statment that he can sense chornosapiens, but that statement is given as a reason they should use paradox's time powers to sneak up on him instead. the comic isn't part of the main canon while the show itself consistenly maintains the differences both before and after that point in the timeline, among other things. even having beings from outside the event's effects draw attention to them. i found it to be quite clever continuity writing. however, i won't try to force that point any harder, both as it's best explained visually and as you are clearly over the matter. i can understand that. i once again apologise for my tone. l was likely thinking of an older version of the post when i said that and i do appreciate you taking the time to correct it from that version. have similarly experieced a lot of bizzare answers, mainly over alien x. at least three people have accused me of making up the contemelia in an attempt to try and weaken alien x. or insisted that the trial episode didn't happen. you didn't deserve that tone though, i cannot apologise enough.

The problem with the episode is that they nerfed Ben if they were composite versions then Ben should know how to use the Omnitrix perfectly understand all his aliens and there are characters weaker than alien x who were able to recreate an infinite multiverse they intentionally nerfed Ben while buffing Hal

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

They state no outside power-ups outside of their base equipment. A solid number of the feats they used for Hal had him doing it either not alone or with a power-up They say he helped pull the earth, but when Superman's doing part of the job, he's doing ALL of the job. You're there for moral support

@chideraumejiaku3895

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 hal has many planetary feats,that one wouldn't even matter tbh

@Geoemophobic

8 ай бұрын

@@sev1120 I made this comment to get Hal fans angry but my actual problem is that while they used a canon version of Han they just slapped master control and alien x on an inexperienced ten year old Ben with an Omnitrix that doesn't have failsafes outside of the one that protects the watch it's like giving a young Hal with three months of experience a broken power ring that can do powerful things only when the plot needs it it should have been either one of the adult bens or Ben from omniverse in omniverse he is the strongest we've ever seen him and the celestial sapiens affect the entire infinite multiverse not just one they didn't change the artstyle and voices in the prime universe they did it in every single universe so they are able to do something that affects infinity yes Hal probably still wins I'm a DC fan and I liked Hal a lot when I was younger but I don't know about many of his versions especially not from comics I don't care about who won I care about the fact that they intentionally didn't make the fight fair

@Geoemophobic

8 ай бұрын

@@chideraumejiaku3895 didn't Kylo reiner or whatever the guy who found his dead gf in the fridge struggle to do a planetary fear while having the power of all the green lanterns?(I heard it a few years ago in a video explaining why he seems weaker after a surtain point so I'm just curious if I remember right)

@sev1120

8 ай бұрын

@@Geoemophobic I agree with you, though I personally think that Ben could eke out a win 2% more than Hal. Either way, it's gonna be close, but if it was any other Lantern I'd easily give it to the GL rep, due to how each human GL has different strengths (Hal's wellspring of will, Jon's significantly stronger, near unbreakable constructs, Guy's sheer force behind his blasts and constructs, and Jessica's skill in fighting even whilst ringless) That's just my opinion however

if the failsafe pulse has a cooldown how didn’t the failsafe change him to a alien like you said diamond head it literally spammed change ben when he was stopping the universe from getting destroyed again

There are some episodes I either don't want to watch or revisit because of the character I like more losing or just not being done well, and sometimes it can be really draining talking about those episodes especially if it's one where I care much less about the actual verdict and more of the characterization of the character I like more, I don't think I have to explain why Ed vs Aang is one of those (It hurts double when you love both), but any time I mention I don't like Ganondorf vs Dracula because of how Ganondorf is handled the discussion immediately becomes possibly one of the most annoying things, and yea I can be pretty stern with it but that is also just due in part to me just being sick of Smash being used for animation purposes when he literally does not fight like that at all, seeing him be characterized as a mindless brawler who just goes in all the time again and again is irritating, combine this with how Zelda has been treated in the vs community for years just because of two specific episodes and you have a recipe for disaster for how I feel about stuff, the stuff I already don't like about it plus the discussions/arguments I get in about it just makes me not want to touch the episode at all again, Vader vs Obito will be hard to revisit again but I can at least watch it and enjoy how he actually feels like himself in the fight and how the analysis is pretty good despite the outcome which would bring me back to it. The discussion of DB episodes can be annoying at times, and even disagreeing (Or agreeing with in some of my circumstances) can get you in such hot water for no reason, it would be nice if eventually all that can die down and more people start to understand and see that vs is subjective.

@kermitgotthesickkicks4265

8 ай бұрын

Someone understands it.

I have finally fully watched the video I just want to say : Thank you so much for making this it's own video and thank you for giving kuro an actual good criticism as opposed to what many DB fans did This video as a Ben10 fan and as someone who is currently regaining my love for DC and especially hal jordan is nothing short of amazing And I enjoyed it , disagree with some stuff but eh opinions and shit ig I'm excited for your season 6 retrospective and your content is amazing and you're one of the best people I saw in the vs communit tbh

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Thanks, bruv. Your comment means a lot. ^_^

I like how we have reached the point where people can make 40+ minute videos on youtube video series

a particular point they bought that didnt sit well with me was the "celestial sapiens can fail and have been defeated in the past" while true, they 1- say it showing a clip of a celestial sapien being defeated by ANOTHER celestial sapien, this felt like they saying that a regular person can beat a MMA fighter because he lost to another MMA fighter 2 - the whole creating a universe thing felt more like he created because he was to late to save it, not because he couldnt (heck ben straight up says it)

@l0sts0ul89

8 ай бұрын

Just because you're strong in your universe doesn't mean you are in another

@pedrolemos8566

8 ай бұрын

@@l0sts0ul89 the issue was in how they presented said argument, like he said during the vídeo. They said in a way that felt like they mean Ben is not that strong rather than showing that Hal is stronger then we are giving him credit to, something that they have been improving with later episodes

If the omnitrix is destroyed and contained so it doesn't blow the universe, then yeah, he wins, ignoring the sotobro effect, the moment Hal cuts Ben's arm off, even if he's faster than the omnitrix, the Omnitrix will react and change Ben into an alien capable of reattaching the arm like swampfire and then the Battle would just restart and probably loop

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

the sotobro effect doesn't work that way. ben's time travelling enemies have specifically gone back in time to kill him before. and no, we know that's not true not only because an expert has claimed you can cut it off in every series, but because ban has broken his arm as clockwork, and even when he swtched to swampfire, the arm STAYED broken and withered, despite his incredible regenerative powers.

@13KuriMaster

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 Umm, when have any of ben's time traveling enemies gone back in time to kill Ben? Eon was absorbing/assimilating the various Bens of the multiverse (not killing them) and I can't think of one point where Maltruant was specifically trying to ill Ben as opposed to get the tools needed for his "go back to before time began and mess with the creation of the universe" plan.

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@13KuriMaster he also tried to kill ben multiple times during that plan and future ben mistakes it for an attempt to go back in time and assasinate him while he's more vulnerable. something he explains would actually work to his past self. though it's worth noting eon doesn't try to assimilate ben at any point during this fight, he goes right for lethal aging beams and DOES actually kill off waybig, being on the brink of killing ben before his future self intervenes. in the comics, vilgax does this, as something of a precursor to his later attempt with the time bomb.

@13KuriMaster

8 ай бұрын

@@danielwilson8604 But he wasn't specifically trying to kill Ben... even if that's what Ben 10K thought was happening, it wasn't. You said, "ben's time travelling enemies have specifically gone back in time to kill him before."... but that's not the reason Maltruant was traveling through time. As for Eon, even if he goes for the kill shot when he can, He still wasn't doing the job specifically to kill Ben. He was after the Hands of Armageddon, and Ben was getting in the way. For either case, if they were actually wanting to kill Ben and make a time travel trip specifically to kill him..... why not go a point even earlier, like to before Ben put the Omnitrix on? As opposed to a teenage Ben that is at least capable of assisting the future ben that follows them to stop the Time Travel assassination. Oooh, which Comic and where can I find it for a read?

@danielwilson8604

8 ай бұрын

@@13KuriMaster i apologise for misspeaking, though the fact that ben himself thought that this was the villain's plan and that it would work still lends it a lot of credibility. he also was using clockwork's powers for the first time in canon and still thought eon had actually died instead of travelling back in time. i also said once in the show, once in the comics. i do not know where to read it, but the story is called "time saver", it's in Ultimate Alien Vol. 1 and has ben loose the omnitrix temporarily and use paradox and ship's help. in this one he genuinely does go for the first day ben found the omnitrix.

Is the Omnitrix fail safe a lot faster than anything what Hal Jordan could do of cutting Ben's arm?

Oh this was a very interesting watch. I am very new to watching death battle related stuff thanks to my partner’s Ranking videos, so learning about things like How Green Lanturn vs Ben 10 was so controversial has been uh. Hmm. Hard to wrap my head around? I am very much in a “idc who wins. As long as i enjoy the episode its neat.” Having a character I like win is just a cherry on top.

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it. Also, I hope that my $8 donation from yesterday's stream helps you guys out. Or at the very least, be enough to castrate Elon Musk. ;)

One again Mr. Frostathan you never fail with these Death Battle retrospectives this was fun to watch dude this episode will always be know for "Most Decisive" love the time effort you spent in this video W Based video brother!

@JonathanFrostathan

8 ай бұрын

Heh, biased. I definitely don't deny that I am in some ways. :)))))

@marfield7401

8 ай бұрын

@JonathanFrostathan based I meant sorry my apologies again W based video looking for your other DB season retrospectives!

The sotobrae effect would mean alien x can follow hal back in time and stop his plan, kuro the artist made a video on the battle

"Why do you care about the result? Would you like if the other character won but the episode was shit otherwise?" No. And that's a dumb argument. Obviously if the episode is shit, then it's shit. Regardless of who wins. But that's not an argument against the result being important. That's such a bad faith argument, which sucks because I enjoyed the rest of the video. Only thing I disagree with is that it's fair to use other Lanterns for Hal's feats. By that logic every single Lantern also has Hal's feats. Hal should be able to stand on his own; he's more than powerful enough.

@valenschristianyosua

8 ай бұрын

That's not how that works, hal has been stated numerous times to have the greatest willpower of any green lantern, and the more willpower they have the stronger a green lantern is. So hal can do anything another green lantern with weaker willpower than him can do but not vice versa, because he has the most willpower. All green lanterns have the same exact set of powers, they just have different output, and hal has the greatest output out of them all.

@armaggedon390

8 ай бұрын

@@valenschristianyosua "Hal could, in theory, do things the other Lanterns did." Yeah, but Hal didn't do them. That's not hos Death Battle works. We're pitting Ben against Hal, not against the hypothetical ideal Lantern (which would probably still be Hal, but that's beside the point)

Just going to mention the Sodobro Effect. It not one of Ben's powers but a law of physics in the World of Ben 10. Basically when someone tries to manipulate time in a way that would effect powerful beings, said beings, can seance it and interfere with the source of time manipulation. Basically feel and run interception on someone else interfering with time before it effect them.