As a Lavndertowne fan, I can confirm that normally her redesigns are better than this; I appreciate how she realized she made a mistake and corrected herself.

@ytbrado

Ай бұрын

👏👏

@annonimors2811

Ай бұрын

I was also sad when I saw that too. I hope she doesn't go down that route as I love her content and personality as well. As fans of both artists I just don't want any drama, really

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

I didn't interpret it as hateful at all. When I watched the video, I thought she had some very good criticisms. I wasn't a fan of the final designs perse, but what she said, like the part about the colors meshing, was a very good critisms. Even in the pilot, their colors were a lot more diverse, and I was a little disappointed when the redesigns of certain character came out as just too much red. There are so many Demons without red in their design, too. I don't believe there was any ill intent, and she just wanted to cash in on the wave of Habin while it's still popular.

@silly4380

Ай бұрын

yeah same i love her stuff it is just a little funny to point and laugh in good lighthearted fun because oof they’re not great but i’m glad she’s willing to atone for it and again i do like her art too

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

@@silly4380 She just had some valid criticism, and she said nothing about the substance of the show. It was all about the designs. I felt like she even tried her best not to sound hateful using language like "I think this would be cool" instead of "They should have done this." I thought a lot of the critism was valid as well. Overall, I think it was pretty respectful. She was going through a rough time, so designs weren't all that, but it is fun to criticize those designs as well.

Niffty's redesign makes her look like Mike Wazowski's half-sister.

@marikuma88

Ай бұрын

She’s even doing the pose from that one meme

@obnoxious_efe420

Ай бұрын

Bruh

@noobmasterruben5167

Ай бұрын

Now I cant unsee it

@cal3ido_

Ай бұрын

Nifty's litteraly supposed to be a ladybug too 😭

@WeirdDinosaurthing

Ай бұрын

That's why I love it lol

I feel like there is a difference between "redesigning" and "fixing" caricature designs. Saying vivsy has a bad style and fixing it, is bad. Saying you wanna redesign her caricatures as if you made them, or if a different artist made them, is good(it's like fan art)

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

The latter basically _is_ fan-art. It's just "Hey, here's me drawing my favorite characters, but I'll be drawing them in my style, because while I like them, I can't replicate the original art style/won't do it any justice!", whether it's just "as they are" or with a different costume, or a "what-if?" scenario like redrawing them as angels, or humans, or pokemon. It's "I'm an artist, this is how I draw, this is how these characters look in my style," not "I don't like this art style or the way these characters look, so I'm going to make them better by drawing them my way and how I want them to look!" (aka "fixing.")

@nullakjg767

Ай бұрын

its just an opinion plus fan art. people are allowed to have diff opinions.

@Doctormakiart

Ай бұрын

Right!I always doing redesign thing with all of Fandom I'm in it but I really respect every artstyle and design!

@SavouryGalette

Ай бұрын

​@@nullakjg767 There's a difference between having different opinions and saying you're "fixing" a character's design. The former is respectable and is easy to forgive, and the latter is scummy and a dick move.

@iso_plays6444

Ай бұрын

caricatures?

There’s a difference between doing your own _personal_ redesigns for pre-existing properties vs. “fixing” them. Just wanted everyone to know, even if you do.

@ninjagirl226

Ай бұрын

This is the best way to put it. Like I’ve designed different outfits for characters before. Most the time it’s because I got bored with the old look after years of seeing them. Not that the old ones were bad just I wanted to add more details or just wanted to see something different. But at this point I’ve seen some redesigns that just bash the show and that’s not cool. Because most of these artists can’t create anything on their own. They just change other peoples characters. I will give the criticism that the characters all being the same color scheme and sometimes they blend into the background too much some merit cause they often do. Like I get what Vivziepop is trying to do I just disagree with the execution. In Helluva it works better cause of all the rings. But I draft books not cartoons.

@TeenyWeenyDork

Ай бұрын

this!!! like, putting your style/take on it or “if i made HH” or something is different than “fixing” them

@rimaproductions9369

Ай бұрын

Exactly

@NobodyUndefined

Ай бұрын

I agree. The term fixing just implies that there's something wrong with it, art is subjective and there shouldn't be a right or wrong way to do it. And it just comes off as pretentious like Lavender is somehow better at art than Viv is. Honest to god I think her Charlie redesign is cute, it's a fun spin on the character but calling it a 'fixed' version is just weird. The other redesigns are just weird though. The worst part is that she really half assed the designs and I've seen her work before and she's better than this which makes it even worse.

@Crisjola

Ай бұрын

This is why I like the clothing angle-which is what I take since I can’t read any creator’s mind. Especially in Viv’s case where none of us know how/why each character is the way they are. If we had why they changed from human in to XYZ by a particular means/reasons (such as Angel’s sister still being a spider while being in heaven) then I might be more comfortable with even a personal redesign, instead of it still feeling odd. I don’t remotely bat an eye at the AUs, since I’m just as “guilty” as the ones like 2P, or Neon. But making a full on redesign when we don’t have all of the information as to why a character even looks that way to begin with? It makes me uncomfortable because it’s taking a measure of arrogance to assume you know why someone made a character when we don’t know why that character is the way they are. It also would be very different if you’re doing a redesign of a character/world that your friend made and you can _ask_ them for details. But since probably very few of us have that privilege to meet/know Viv personally…? It still rubs me wrong when presenting a redesign as better, even if it’s just personal, since it’s not saying it’s AU it’s still a submission as “better than canon.”

A part of me really hates redesigns whether it’s Hazbin or something else, like imagine someone “fixes” your art? That would kinda hurt

@SweetOrangeGirl

Ай бұрын

I got flashbacks to that one Twitter user who “fixed” someone’s art of human Sonic, Tails and Knuckles by making the third black.

@Eggboifrank

Ай бұрын

Like if you don’t like the normal characters, you should not watch the show like it’s not your show to begin with so you can’t just redesign them like you think it’s okay to make your own characters and say this is more fitting they should make it like this, it’s not your show buddy did you create this I don’t think so

@kingnightmarevin

Ай бұрын

Redesigning and art fixing are COMPLETELY different, art fixing is done out of malice while redesigning is done for fun

@erm_what_the_spruce

Ай бұрын

Redesigns is different from art fixing

@imhere8474

Ай бұрын

I just straight up "Do not recommend channel"

I don’t really mind reimaginings or redesigns, but people always have to hate on Vivzie because of her art style. Makes no sense

@mintyglitch9304

Ай бұрын

I agree

@gem9535

Ай бұрын

Because they're bad and people paid for this show.

@nebulaquatic

Ай бұрын

what's funny, people would love her the art style if it was someone else who made, they just hate it because it belongs to her

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

Lavendertowne didn't hate on the art style. I saw the video and she tried to be so respectful

@jellynut5903

Ай бұрын

Am I the only one who loves vivziepop's art style (mostly her old art)

she made them look too humanoid. but the whole point is that they ARENT supposed to all look humanoid ie angel, husk, pentious etc.

@Embibuiltdifferent

Ай бұрын

This! Alastor just looks straight up human, and not to mention the complete removal of any deer features, which clearly shows that she didn't know how sinners are supposed to come to how they look in hell

@user-st4fm3hm2d

Ай бұрын

He just looked like my uncle who forgot to brush his teeth

Alastor having a mic ear piece defeats the purpose that he is generally themed after vintage radio and broadcasting devices.

@wendyheatherwood

Ай бұрын

While also deciding he should be sepia tinted for some reason.

@alphalonewolfgirl12

Ай бұрын

@@wendyheatherwood because sepia = old fashioned photography. I can understand where people get the idea but I dont agree with it

I notice a lot of redesigns make the same points and address them the same way without really understanding why the original advice exists in the first place. Changing body types is done to diversify silhouettes, not just arbitrarily have heavier characters, so making Vaggie chubby is actually pointless in that respect because her hair is the dominant factor in her silhouette. Different colors help distinguish characters, but the red-white-yellow is used in most Hell characters to link them to the environment and contrast the blue-gold dominance of Heaven and the angels-- and using limited pallettes in this way is an entirely valid technique to begin with. It feels like people splash color because somebody once said 'each character should have a distinct pallette' and it's just uncritically accepted. They follow 'rules' of design without understanding why those 'rules' are in place and that, like all art, should not be adhered to as absolutes anyway. Not that you can't make nice redesigns or raise valid criticism, but there's a huge difference between making changes because you feel a better aesthetic and making changes because an art teacher told you how things are 'supposed' to be done.

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

Art has rules but those rules are like armature wire...meant to be bent into your will

@Wandervenn

Ай бұрын

A lot of people didnt get past the color wheel in art class to know that monochromatic and dichromatic color palletes are a thing.

@MrAfrodisiakOo

Ай бұрын

That's cuz most "re-designers" are not actually character designers as they like to claim. They don't really understand what character design is and refuse to ever analyse the original designs to understand why things are the way that they are, so they can later use it as the base for redesigns.

@nullakjg767

Ай бұрын

she looks terrible as a chubbo. also as an angel, "everyone is hot" so it doesnt really make sense to make her obese.

@lycandoodle

Ай бұрын

And that's the problem the rules aren't meant to be followed one to one that's not art, understanding the rules and how to break them is what art is about whether you're using it for fun like Lavndertowne or for a mainstream show like Viv is, whichever reason is valid and should be supported not constantly hated.

10:16 As a radio/old stuff lover, it also sort of bothered me that she took away his microphone? I think adding a microphone like the one he has there sorta takes away a big portion of his radio host aesthetic.

@vibaj16

Ай бұрын

well, he has a microphone, but a lot more boring than as a staff

@malenaavalos7829

Ай бұрын

He has a mic, but it's a modern Mike. The design doesn't understand Alastor never wears modern things to contrast Vox

@laraprisma6381

Ай бұрын

​@@malenaavalos7829 Yeah, he hates modern technology!!

“i dont really know what the point of alastors ears are” “i dont see the fact that hes a deer shown in his design” bruh.

@warriorcatkitty

Ай бұрын

that comment about the teeth and him being a deer bothered me particularly because he's not *just* a deer, but inspired by a WINDIGO.

@a.3127

Ай бұрын

Just goes to show how little research was done. People are really out here doing anything for clout

@BloodStainedFeathers

Ай бұрын

​@@warriorcatkittydeer teeth are actually spiky!

@lemonmoonlavender

Ай бұрын

​@@warriorcatkittyI FOUND YOU AGAIN wild varian fans hell yeah

@Shammrye

Ай бұрын

@@BloodStainedFeathersjust googled it and you are right! They are!

To me, Kaledya is a perfect example of making redesigns. They have multiple oc's, headcanons and make fanart of the show using their own redesigns, and the redesigns are simular yet different enough to not throw shade at the originals.

@siphonthemoth

Ай бұрын

You are correct

@U286BRAINZ

Ай бұрын

EXACTLYYY

@Catcatkittyq

Ай бұрын

REAL

@shilasarkar6003

Ай бұрын

Yeah I know that channel I wish some of his characters were canon

@DragonRiderDraws4267

Ай бұрын

110% Kaledya’s redesigns/AUs are fabulous

I hate how this whole discourse just boils down to "I don't like Viv's art style, so here's a version of them in MY style. Look how much better they are." all the while citing things that are entirely subjective as their reason for disliking the designs

@nullakjg767

Ай бұрын

thats what fan art usually is. "heres how I wouldve done it" idk why its a problem. if you dont like the redesigns, thats just as valid as the person drawing them not liking the official designs. its just opinion.

@novatech2000

Ай бұрын

@@nullakjg767redesigns do NOT always EQUAL respective fanart. Fanart is supposed to represent the characters like the creator intended them, redesigns are headcanons and can sometimes differ too much from the source material.

@nullakjg767

Ай бұрын

@@novatech2000 fan art is whatever the fan wants. thats why its called fan art you dip.

@GhostAnimatesStuff

Ай бұрын

Yes the redesigns themselves are more subjective and in LavenderTowne's style, but the critiques themselves are genuinely fair and pretty tame considering how much hate the Hazbin fanbase has been throwing her. She brings up the characters blending a bit too much with their backgrounds, which is fair, it can be a bit of a problem when the main location the show is set in be a similar tone of red as the characters' outfit colours. Also, the characters having a bit too much detail is also valid when it comes to animation, the more details characters have the more difficult they are to consistently animate.

@fastcrasher

Ай бұрын

​​@@nullakjg767They're talking about how someone would make art solely on how they dislike a design, or worse, spite it. For example, Twitter's way of fixing art. They tried to "fix" alastor by giving him brown human skin with curled hair and talk shit about Viv's "lack of diversity", because he uses voodoo, and it is a closed religion, and they did it because of the controversy. But fan art is more like, "if you made that character", or support someone else's art, animation, movie, etc.

The redesigns look more like deviantart ocs than the actual designs do

@Chip_The_Cat

Ай бұрын

💀💀

@Pint-Sized-Slasher

Ай бұрын

The redesign art also doesn’t even correlate with one another, the design for Charlie and angel look like two different art styles entirely, same with vaggie and niffty, and Alastor just looks like some random OC from pintrist.

@lycandoodle

Ай бұрын

Pretty ironic since the original character is supposed to be a deviantart oc lmao

@2e2i23

Ай бұрын

I like how Vivs style gives an oc creator vibe

@jlhn

Ай бұрын

That's because Lavender used to post her OCs to devianart years ago. Her style has evolved, but you can still see the influence. It's like how you can tell that an artist was a furry or really liked a particular anime

i think that a great example of where (most) redesigns are done incredibly well is in the mlp community. you can tell most pony redesigns are done out of love for the show and characters and wanting to put a creative spin on it rather than out of spite. i’ve also seen a lot of fun “what if” situations like the ones you described- a lot of human designs, colour swaps, background characters as princesses, and fun stuff like that. i’d love to see more of that when it comes to hazbin redesigns

@joshuagonzalez4183

Ай бұрын

👍🏻

@kialeysmith327

Ай бұрын

THIS. A MILLION TIMES THIS

@Arctic_silverstreak

Ай бұрын

Yep, mlp redesign is what kept me stay on the fandom even after the g4 ended years ago, plus the amount of AU it has, from simple one shot to full blown comic I think HH & HB can reach that point in General, but since the amount of lore or even episode is pretty minimal at this point there's really not much individual artists can create/imagine

@Technilogica2019

Ай бұрын

i will say tho, some of the tiktok mlp fans are incredibly brutal for no reason, they freaked out when i went for a more fantasy storybook color scheme instead of 2010s in-your-face ADOBE FLASH DEFAULT PALETTE and actual tears were shed when i gave pinkie albinism. not even cus i misrepresented it, i did my research, it was just "too bland" like come on the whole point of a redesign is to do something *different* lmao

This video gives the false impression that Lavendertowne was being intentionally obtuse. This whole thing comes of as underhanded & rude. And frankly, she never claimed she was "fixing" their designs, just reimagining them in her own style. Yes. Her video was flawed & poorly researched, and yes, she didn't stick 100% to the source material, but frankly people make mistakes & she was giving it her own spin. The amount of backlash given to her for this video was insane! I love hazbin hotel but can the fandom calm down for 5 minutes. I know people have been rude in their critique before & that's why everyone is so quick to defend the show, but can we accept that the show isn't perfect because no show is & act like we're not toddlers for 5 minutes

@Deeznuggets592

Ай бұрын

I think Lavendertowne's white knights are the ones who have to calm down : )

@cloudphoenix241

Ай бұрын

@@Deeznuggets592 wow- that's one of the most passive aggressive smiley faces I've seen in a while lmao

@bunniigutz438

Ай бұрын

​@Deeznuggets592 funny how u say this, but ayy lmao is one of, if not the biggest, Vivizepop glazer LOLL

@androidps1440

Ай бұрын

Another reason to hate the fandom It's really Steven Universe 2.0

@TheWisdom_Seelie

Ай бұрын

SO TRUE like Hazbin fans just see any sort of criticism and take it as a personal attack. Hazbin fans just need to chill and except that their show isn’t perfect and some people won’t like it.

Most controversial indie cartoon , every month is a new controversy about Hazbin and Helluva

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

Usually very stupid and blown out of proportion

@insectknight

Ай бұрын

Hazbin is not indie anymore:)

@Medlair

Ай бұрын

Yeah I forgot how much the norm actually dislikes stuff like these because I mosty only look at the comunities I feel closer but if you compare it to the norm most people probably would hate this show solely for the artstyle

@Itariatan

Ай бұрын

It got the same kinda hate when it was indie. ​@@insectknight

@kinka9883

Ай бұрын

​@@MedlairIt seems like people actually like the show ok, it's just the internet as always.

God I hate when people say “the characters look to busy” like what does that mean,I would like to see more interesting character design than just a boring one

@remyuk

Ай бұрын

my thoughts exactly. its really cool to me that the characters in hazbin have such interesting designs. i don't even think they're busy or over complicated, i think everyone is just used to cookie-cutter cartoon characters having simple, easy-to-animate designs. hazbin has that amazon and a24 budget - i'm glad they're actually using it lmao.

@nelly2958

Ай бұрын

Yeah those people are the reason, most adult cartoons look like family guy.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

Also there's actually an explanation for why they look so "busy" sinners and probably winners given Heaven was pretty furry too gain forms that reflect how they died and aspects of themselves.

@imnotadrien

Ай бұрын

busy character designs are hard to focus on when they move around a lot its eye straining. i prefer detailed designs but sometimes they can make it hard to watch a show because of everything moving around so fast and there being nowhere for your eyes to rest on/come back to.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

@@imnotadrien Didn't experience anything like that with HH personally.

"his ears, i don't really know what the point of those are" me immediately shouting HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A DEER and it isn't even her video but lawd jesus my blood pressure just can't. "i don't know, i don't know the full details" THEN RESEARCH THEM! i'm glad she ended up apologizing because this commentary was facetious at best

@Shsy7573

Ай бұрын

My problem with that was that she said she didn’t know what the ears are, then also said she didn’t see any aspects of how he resembled a deer. Kinda just had me shaking my head. Like, girl, u got RID of them XD But, like, yeah, def props to her for apologizing and owning up to her mistakes. I definitely see this as an art channel just trying to do a fun little project, not doing the full research and having that backfire on them. So, really, no harm no foul. She apologized so I’m just moving on.

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

I just...don't get how someone can't tell that's what they are? Like, I had no clue what the blue heck Hazbin Hotel was, other than stuff about it kept crossing my recs, and I was curious because the visuals were kinda intriguing. And I still looked straight at Alastor and went "Okay, this guy's hair looks kinda like some kind of animal's ears...wait, are those little antlers? He's a deer?" Granted, my immediate guess from there before I looked into the lore was "Okay, so maybe he's supposed to be a wendigo?" which only got more cohesive in my mind when I saw things that showed his demon form, but it was still pretty clear that he had aspects that leaned on "deer" as a theme. Even without seeing the hoofprints on the bottoms of his shoes, it's clear that his feet are meant to look a little like hooves at a glance, and there's a bit of a vibe of his legs not quite being fully human-shaped...it's all there.

@aquelgamermexicano

Ай бұрын

"Are those your ears or is that your hair" An egg boy kind of question...

@joshraid1550

Ай бұрын

Yeah that’s Vizies fault. No one ever looked at spider-man before learning his name and wondering what animal he was themed after. Same for Batman.

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

@@joshraid1550 I feel like it's more on Lavender for not knowing what she was even looking at (she rambled stuff about "Um, he's some kind of deer-cannibal?" like she wasn't even sure what Alastor's deal was), and was clearly not even _looking_ for features that were deer-like, just writing off the animal features as "I don't get it". Like, I went in totally blind, no lore knowledge whatsoever because I'd only saw recs of videos on KZread and a bit of fan-art on Tumblr, and I was able to parse that Alastor's hair extended up into animal ears, and then noticed his tiny antlers and the way that his feet have a slightly hoof-like shape even before seeing the hoofprints on the soles, and was easily able to parse "deer," even without seeing his wendigo-ish true demon form. It's not like it's impossible to parse, unless you're being kind of deliberately obtuse or just trying deliberately to write things off as unimportant to the design.

I've never liked people 'fixing' other people's characters. Doing characters in ones own style or to fit an AU is fine because these artists aren't normally 'fixing' the characters just having some fun maybe adding more details that would be difficult to animate on a show or to fit their style without dumping on the original.

@sylentnote

Ай бұрын

She wasn’t “fixing” the designs she was redesigning them

@Ninapea

Ай бұрын

I redesigned some of the Hazbin characters, too. But am I only doing just to poop on Viv and crying about how terrible the show is? Absolutely not.

@Toki-np3xj

Ай бұрын

​@@sylentnote Nah, when you nitpick design choices whilst blatantly ignoring reasoning behind those choices or the characters whole point, its no longer "fan redesigning" or even really "redesigning". Its not rocket science. Its just ignorance and arrogance. Redesigning would imply knowing the reasoning behind those design choices, and tackling them from a different perspective or tailoring it to a theme while still showing those reasons. An example of the blatant ignorance is Angels "redesign" that looks frankly more like an oc than anything, there is nothing to suggest any of the story to the character nor even come across as recognizable. It genuinely just looks like a random teenage human background character. Not to mention her choice to give the "Alastor" design a modern looking microphone. TLDR Redesigns implies a level of respect to source material and going, "What's another way to convey this same idea?" (ie I do like her, while poor taste since it was fan art, edit to Husk by changing his button looking things to reflect card symbols.) These were indeed "fixing" the design, or rather, devaluing the essence of character design (reflecting the character in how they look) into personal concepts inspired loosely by characters in question.

i love lavender, but even ignoring the mistakes made during the redesign process due to not fully understanding the characters, something about the redesigns rubbed me the wrong way. ESPECIALLY angel. looking closer at it now, i can see why. it just looks so unbelievably rushed, and i feel like she genuinely can do so much better. and i actually like some of the things she mentioned, too. i think seeing alastor in that colour pallet would be super interesting, and i feel like it would still be able to contrast vox with vox being super bright and alastor having very muted colours. but the way it was applied was just so… oh dear.

@yaoiloverstudio

Ай бұрын

Same here although Alastor felt the most out of character imo I love his original design a lot and while I appreciate the beige/old looking coloring, I wasn't a big fan of the rest.

@goldenheart__

Ай бұрын

@@yaoiloverstudio no yeah i definitely get that, when i said angel felt the worst i meant in terms of quality, not design. angel’s redesign still felt like him, at least a little bit, but the art itself and the colours just felt the worst out of all the characters. meanwhile, alastor’s felt the best quality wise but the worst in terms of fitting his actual character

@yaoiloverstudio

Ай бұрын

@@goldenheart__ Yeah I agree on that, overall Lavender has done better in the past, I really like her art and as a person she genuinely seems nice so I'm excited for her redo of the video.

@even8653

Ай бұрын

As an artist lemme just tell you those drawings were shit and I'm shocked she has 2million subs releasing garbage like that, as someone who grew up watching lavender she was just so wrong for posting that video leaving angel dust like that... not to even fucking mention how terribly unsure her lineart looked... how are you gonna call yourself a professional drawing like you can't even draw a straight line. I was flabbergasted when I found out she was the one who drew the shit.

@user-st4fm3hm2d

Ай бұрын

Literally everyone was looking like human . Literally everyone

Tbh I just want peace in the world and no hate Twitter like I hate website every time you go on there, you can’t even scroll and you find someone hating on a show or threatening someone

@Zoro_themanbetrayedbygooglemap

Ай бұрын

FRANK!!!! MY BOY

@Eggboifrank

Ай бұрын

@@Zoro_themanbetrayedbygooglemap what up?

@Beheptu

Ай бұрын

@@Eggboifrank FRANKY DA EGG BOI THE LAST ONE STANDING RAAH!

@MikeHawk-ki5ri

Ай бұрын

Frank valid but it's the internet so it won't stop also it is half the fun

@Zoro_themanbetrayedbygooglemap

Ай бұрын

@@Eggboifrankthe best and only egg boi!!!!!! Rahhhhhh!

The redesigns she did looked so bleh. The artstyle is fine, though.

@the_real_tabby

Ай бұрын

Her artstyle is nice. Usually it's better than this though.

@noobmasterruben5167

Ай бұрын

Her redesign of Angel dust just looked so bland. Which is so weird because her redesign of Momo, Iruru & Winx club was way cooler

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

@@noobmasterruben5167 A big problem with her Angel design is she sucked all the sexuality right out of him, which is kind of important to his design.

@sylentnote

Ай бұрын

It was a rushed video and her character designs are typically MUCH better than this. Give her break

@tweettweetyweety

Ай бұрын

I’m a fan of her work but I cannot lie and say that her redesigns don’t look worse than the actual show

I have an associate who said he hated the show because he couldn't "follow the lore", "remember their names", and thought Vivzie "didn't know what she was doing". As a result, he did his own designs by making Vaggie more muscular since she has to "defend the hotel". I get that, but you don't have to be muscular to be "strong". Sometimes being light and nimble can add to your advantage. Plus, she's a former angel, and all of them are canonically slim.

@vibaj16

Ай бұрын

As someone who often can't follow the lore and is especially bad at remembering names, Hazbin Hotel has pretty easy to follow lore and easy to remember names.

@kingnightmarevin

Ай бұрын

​@@vibaj16as someone with the same issue, I feel like I could understand Warrior Cats better than Hazbin

@Dressup_Doll

Ай бұрын

Show your associate FNAF and see what happens.

@vibaj16

Ай бұрын

@@kingnightmarevin Idk what that is, but one series that's been having this issue for me is Murder Drones.

@infinite.wings.guy.

Ай бұрын

​@@vibaj16 Same

I find the comment that she doesn't understand the point of Alastor's ears interesting. They are part of his deer motif and are a big clue about what he is. i can see the confusion though as in the show an egg boi even asks him if it was is hair or his ears as he could not tell.

@inserthahafunniusername9656

Ай бұрын

What frustrated me especially was when she literally said after the matter, "I don't know, I don't know the full details" like??? Research then

@mono9477

Ай бұрын

If vivzie didn’t say Alastor was deer I would never guess Deer ears do not look like that☠️☠️ he barely looks like one (esp according to the fact he’s a RED deer bruh)

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

@@mono9477 He only has a few traits yeah but I didn't find the deer thing hard to spot personally.

@mono9477

Ай бұрын

@@shadenox8164 have you even seen deers he’s literally tumblr sexyman with pointy ears and short horns, that’s it.

@kinka9883

Ай бұрын

​@@mono9477I think Viv knows what deer ears look like because she also drew one in helluva boss. The Egg bois joke that they don't know what they are, so I think the point is it's not really obvious & they might not even be actual ears. Some people were able to get it quickly & others weren't, so I guess it's just different people's perception🤷‍♀️

I swear to God, people need to chill out on Hazbin Hotel, like I can understand that people have different tastes and not everyone is going to like the show, but videos I've seen almost everywhere on KZread just seems like non stop Twitter hate, and none of the youtubers seem to not pay attention to the actual show in general, some would go go and say that the writing is bad and Charlie is horribly written, and some say/believe that Vivzipop has abused her team, and some compared the show to Velma and called it the worst show of 2024. Honestly, the fans of Hazbin Hotel know what they are talking about 10x MORE than the actual haters of the show, I genuinely wish the hate never happened and we can respect other's opinions in peace. :-(

@bimates2690

Ай бұрын

When something becomes popular, there’s bound to be a hate bandwagon for it. I’m not a massive fan of HH, but I see that bs. Like, I’m with your opinion. People have different tastes. If you don’t like something? Just block/remove it from your recommendations. It’s not that hard, and you can just move on with your life.

@thecollector4574

Ай бұрын

THANK YOU LIKE OMFG

@bradspecter2909

Ай бұрын

I agree if you don't like watch something else why are people like this the world is burning man

@JarodFarrant

Ай бұрын

Cartoonshi & just stop may great critiques of legit flaws of Hazbin Hotel! The logic of the show, but it’s been overshadowed by Twitter(best decision ever to get rid of my Twitter account years ago) I need to stress there’s legit flies of the series, but they’re being overshadowed by the haters who are just hating then trying to be fair.

@alkaline8681

Ай бұрын

The reason why people criticize the show is because it has the same writing problems as other shows/movies that have been coming out recently and a lot of people are really tired of seeing it. There’s not a lot of good shows/ movies to watch anymore, as a result many of them are watching shows from the mid 2000’s because of that. Many of the shows from that era had good writing and great character development and interactions that kept people engaged. Not only that but back then a show would have 15 episodes and more and would not get an another season unless the show did well. The major problems with shows nowadays suffer from millennial writing, in which the creator trauma dumps their problems on to the main character, not letting overcoming hardships. When the character does encounter an obstacle, it’s either fixed immediately or it’s unresolved. That type of writing is seen Hazbin hotel and in helluva boss, where at the beginning it focuses on the premise and it leads or ends to focusing on the main characters truama or on random characters who are not part of the main cast that have nothing to do with the show’s premise to begin with. That’s why there is a lot videos criticizing Hazbin hotel and other shows that have millennial writing.

Okay, I agree that she should’ve done more research or finished the show before doing the redesigns, and they do look kinda rushed. But, like, WHY THE HELL IS THIS SUCH A HUGE CONTROVERSY!?!?!?!? If the redesigns were offensive in any way, that would be a different story, but from what I’ve seen and heard, they aren’t really offensive. People just don’t like ‘em! Are a few botched redesigns really worth SO MUCH DRAMA!? Her video was definitely a little lazy, but it definitely didn’t deserve the hate it got from the ruthless Hazbin Hotel fans who would die for the show. In my humble opinion, the bigger issue here is that percentage of Hazbin fans who follow this show like it’s some sort of cult and will tear apart anyone who slips something up with the lore.(I DO NOT MEAN ALL HAZBIN FANS. MOST OF THEM ARE FINE. The small percentage of crazy ones just really make themselves heard) I mean, Lavendertowne’s redesign video definitely isn’t the only one that got bombarded by hate. The crazy Hazbin fans just take redesigns as “Hey! This person is hating on Hazbin Hotel! What a jerk!” or something like that. TLDR: Lavendertowne screwed up, but she apologized and this was blown way out of proportion by the side of the Hazbin fandom that takes any criticism or misunderstanding of lore as hate. Edit: I actually meant to comment this on the short he made lol. So I just watched the video, and OH MY GOD!!!!!! I usually don’t like to be too hateful, but it just feels like he is actively trying to find things Lavendertowne did wrong. First of all, the whole video I hear over and over “I don’t expect her to know all the lore” and stuff like that, and right after that I hear nitpicks about “erm, actually Alastor this” and “that’s wrong, Charlie hides her horns because this”. Like, just bringing up tiny lore things that the casual viewer would almost never notice. I mean, sure Alastor’s antlers are pretty noticeable when he goes full huge demon form, but you’re probably not paying attention to that! You’re paying attention to the fact that Alastor is FULL HUGE DEMON FORM!!!!! Also, why do redesigns have to fit strict criteria to match the characters lore? Yes, you should be able to look at them and recognize that one of them is based off the other, but isn’t the whole point of a redesign to, y’know… CHANGE THE CHARACTER!? Like how BORING would redesigns be if artists couldn’t take creative liberties because they have to “follow the lore”. Like, I liked the horns on Charlie looking like a crown! Is it lore accurate? No! Is it hurting anyone by not being lore accurate? No, I’d assume not. Does it look sick as hell? Yes! It’s not like these are going to be canon or anything, just chill out and let people critique your precious little show with as little harassment as possible! Thank you for reading. End of rant.

@lunar3660

Ай бұрын

OMG I AGREE like do we really need a 15 minute video on something that doesn't really matter? Like just make short and move on!

I feel like this is a result of a good chunk of the show's lore coming from social media and not the show itself. Angel Dust was a mobster, Alastor was half black, the time periods everyone died in, the hierarchy of heaven and hell are details that I did not get from the show, but from this video and other online posts. Sure she could've watched more of the show to understand their designs, but no one should be expected to do outside homework.

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

On the other hand, I kinda feel like some of that is necessary if you're going to do the kind of video it sounds like she was aiming for? If you're going to do a video redesigning discussing a show's visual aesthetic, and talking in-depth about the character designs and how they do or don't reflect the characters, maybe you at least need to go looking a little deeper into the story? Maybe go read a few character profiles? Also, a lot of the characters' motifs are very clear in the way they talk, behave, etc. It's clear that Angel's way of speaking and acting is often a little dated, but what most stands out is that he talks like a character from movies like The Godfather or Goodfellas. In the pilot, he pulls out a pair of Tommy guns when he's helping Cherri turf Pentious. He's the stereotype of a mafioso. Similarly, Alastor's dress and demeanor are very antiquated, and he reads like a Southern Gentleman stereotype. Plus, all you have to do is look at "Stayed Gone" to realize that when the term "radio host" is used about him, it's clearly meant to be an old-time radio host, not a modern disc jockey. Vox is calling him an "old-timey prick" for a reason.

@takoyaki3458

Ай бұрын

I don’t think it’s necessary to fully understand the intricacies of this show’s lore to enjoy it. It’s exciting to emerge yourself in details of the lore if you want some extra information but I don’t think it’s unreadable without it. There’s so much to tell and I’m sure the show will reveal more and more of the lore in the incoming seasons/episodes. I really like the way they did it, the show doesn’t feel like an exposition dump and it’s more showing than telling. The show lets you come to your own conclusions while it slowly reveals vital information bit by bit and if somebody wants extra knowledge they can easily find it on the internet. I do agree with the previous comment though, Lavendertowne should’ve researched more bc she went with the goal of analysing and redesigning. That should require some serious engagement with the source that ranges outside of simply watching the show, especially a show that put an incredible amount of thought and meaning into each design.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

But that's the thing though, the character designs are going to have details in them you haven't learned about in the show because you aren't going to learn everything about a character immediately. So in those cases you are going to have to look at outside sources until the show has time to get into them, assuming they have a reason to come up.

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

@@shadenox8164 Exactly. And if you're doing a redesign or discussing the character designs, then it's actually important to look into the character concepts a little deeper than what the show has actively told. You're doing essentially a deep dive into why the characters look like they do, why the artist chose those designs, and what stylistic choices were made. Therefore, if you're not doing your research into such things, then you're not doing due diligence to your intended topic or your final art.

@tweettweetyweety

Ай бұрын

IKR like she made Alastor fully white 😭 that made me chuckle because that shows she put little to no research into her video. Except that isn’t a BAD thing necessarily, because as stated most of the world-building comes from all Vivzie’s livestreams and social media which is very flawed. A show like HH doesn’t need full research because it’s not in any way complex

I hate when people complain about Alastor being too white and needs to be darker, he is a mixed race character and as a mixed person myself you can be dark or very white/light skin or somewhere in the middle, Alastor’s skin color is perfectly fine

@BTSfangirl0123

Ай бұрын

He's supposed to have brown skin color not black not white.

@lycandoodle

Ай бұрын

100% agree as somebody who is a mixed race individual, my siblings are more white looking then me, so making that complaint he's too white and needs to be more dark is dumb and shows they don't really caring about diversity, only what they think is diverse.

@epiclolnani9296

Ай бұрын

@@BTSfangirl0123he’s mixed so doesn’t have to be brown, he can be very light or dark

@BTSfangirl0123

Ай бұрын

@@epiclolnani9296 According to Vivzie's design he's brown. Not white not black.

@AlastorAlice

Ай бұрын

I'm glad Im finally hearing from a mixed race person about this. I'm so tired of people from various fandoms saying characters need to be darker if they're mixed. I have personal experience where my first cousins are mixed race between my uncle who is very dark skinned and is arab and my aunt who is irish and therefore extremely pale. And both of my cousins are pretty pale, with the older being a bit darker then the younger, and way darker when she goes out to tan in the summer. You'd never guess my uncle and their father is arab if you only knew his daughters. And he's delt with a lot of both sexism and racism reguarding his own daughters because they're both pale like my aunt. My ex girlfriend and her twin brother were hispanic white mixed, but they both were very very dark, you couldn't tell their mother is white. One of my best friends and their brother are also hispanic/white mixed. My friend is kinda in the middle while the brother is far darker. And lastly, my own girlfriend is 25% hispanic from her grandmother. She doesn't consider herself a POC, but she tans so much in the summer that she looks far more hispanic rather then white imo I myself have some cherokee ancestry even, but it's too far back for me to consider myself ingenious. I consider myself white, and that's why I've never said anything about this issue until now, but I've seen it with my own eyes from various people ive known/have known closely. People who are mixed don't always look mixed. And I agree with what one of you said, it's people's idea of diversity rather then what's actually diverse.

the video wasn't good, but it's far better than the obnoxious twitter hate and people are blowing this WAY OUT OF PROPORTION

@calebpribyl5152

Ай бұрын

Yeah that twitter hate seriously gave me a headache (it made me stop going on twitter!)

@potato_723

Ай бұрын

I didn't like the designs, but people can get really mean instead of giving useful criticism

@mewsea1155

Ай бұрын

I don't use Twitter, but LavenderTowne definitely deserved criticism, at the very least. I find it so disrespectful to give criticism to a show when you have barely even watched it. Moreover, she was clearly trying to "fix" these designs instead of have harmless fun with them.

@calebpribyl5152

Ай бұрын

@@mewsea1155 Honestly my issue with twitter is just this one unfunny joke about how vivziepop’s writing has characters swearing 24/7 just gets annoying! It’s like trying to sleep only then to hear the Nextdoor neighbors screaming YES YES YES!!!! OH F**K YES FASTER DADDY FASTER!!!! We kind of get it!

@tytotech9498

Ай бұрын

Yeah like this dude didn't need to make a whole video dissecting and sharing a deleted video. There's no point, y'know?

I also recommend Loves Art23's Hazbin Hotel redesigns, they're really good and actually fit the Viv's art style. she actually goes in depth about the characters and the design choices she made for the redesigns. she considers them to be reimagines tho

@ringoroof-mj4uo

Ай бұрын

Same like I wished more people talk about them, and hopefully not in a negative manner

@SparDanger

Ай бұрын

I enjoy her content too!

@g.yad.4758

Ай бұрын

she knows a lot about fashion history and it's very satisfying to watch her design process, but i wish she made her own OCs already cause it's pretty frustrating to see her bashing Hellaverse over and over, posing subjective takes as objective criticism

@ringoroof-mj4uo

Ай бұрын

@@g.yad.4758 She has made a lot of ocs and fan children of the characters. And she's actually gonna try to make her own thing from the premise of the show similar to what Callimara did with Miraculous

@Yime4President

Ай бұрын

@@g.yad.4758 own ocs as in a completely original universe or like ocs in the hellaverse? cuz if the latter then she’s already done that plenty

On the controversy surrounding Alastor’s heritage, as someone who’s mixed… Y’all (both sides), mixed people come in different shades. Some mixed people are darker skinned, and others might be medium to light skinned. This is one of the reasons why the term “x passing” exists.

@Chr0ma856

Ай бұрын

I feel like his original design didn’t communicate that he was a poc, so that might be a design flaw.

@BTSfangirl0123

Ай бұрын

​@@Chr0ma856 Viv once drew his human form in a livestream. He's supposed to have brown skin

@Chr0ma856

Ай бұрын

@@BTSfangirl0123 But how is she supposed to know just by watching the show, if it isn’t well communicated in his actual design? Obviously she can’t have watched that livestream.

@BTSfangirl0123

Ай бұрын

@@Chr0ma856 Doesn't need to watch the livestream. If you're going to redesign characters you need to do some research. Literally everyone in the fandom knows about Alastor's heritage.

@P-P-Panda

Ай бұрын

Fr I’m mix and medium-light skinned 😭 it’s ridiculous

I'm still learning the intricacies of the series, but I honestly think the show has a style that's unique and easy to visually track each characters. I have ADHD and sometimes have to re-watch shows and movies multiple times in a row to pick up on details, so the fact that I found this show easy to keep up with tells me that it's doing just fine as is

@inserthahafunniusername9656

Ай бұрын

Oh my God I relate so bad 😭 I also need to relisten to songs sometimes to remember what they sounded like. Also can we normalize loving something but forgetting what the plot's details were?

@raelogan

Ай бұрын

@@inserthahafunniusername9656 Same! I like to say often: "You don't need a reason to enjoy something. Sometimes, you just like it, and it's as simple as that." I WISH I could be as confident with my artstyle like that. 👀

I figured out that Alastor made his deal before the 7yr absence because husk knew about it. And alastor and husk aren't friends for him to tell him after he came back

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

I mean given he has Husk on a leash, Husk was probably with him during that time because he has to do whatever Alastor wants.

@Pmlucas995

Ай бұрын

​​@@shadenox8164 From the pilot we see alastor summoning Husk while husk was gambling. Which means husk was freeish

I feel like you were a little harsh to LavenderTowne in this video. The point of the show being very red is true and as an artist myself I understand why she brought that up as contrasting colors are important in scene design. I get what you mean about how the characters stand out whenever they are outside of the hotel but a character shouldn’t need to be outside of their normal environment to catch your attention. They should be able to fit anywhere and be recognized by the audience immediately! The background also shouldn’t draw away from the characters as well as we aren’t meant to be focused on that. The hotel is extremely detailed and pattern which could make the viewer lose focus of what the characters are doing. Also you shouldn’t have to be a hazbin superfan to enjoy the show. It kinda feels like the series expects you to already be well into the fandom to understand what the hell is going on! It’s not Lavender’s fault that she doesn’t know or understand why certain characters look the way they do be because the show never explains! (Like seriously when do they say angel was in a crime family or that alastor was killed because he was thought to be a deer??) you shouldn’t have to do homework just to understand characters, it should be explained in show!

5:33 is it just me or does her redesign of Charlie Morningstar make her look kinda like a Helltaker character?

@vibaj16

Ай бұрын

he says that later in the video to me it sort of looks like a Splatoon character

@MaxxwellWhite-cx6lk

Ай бұрын

@vibaj16 I also think it looks like a splatoon character like the one you be to customise them then play as

I wish I’d seen the original redesign video, but I saw the short you put out about it, I’m glad to see you posted this one, I know a lot of work goes into these long form projects

I hope lavender town dont get that much hate:( she is just mistaken

@gabriellalea9854

Ай бұрын

Nah fr. I watched the video. It wasn't that bad. She wasn't hating and she made a point to say she wasn't trying to hate. She complimented many parts of the designs, just adding what she would've done based on her experience in art school and animation. Lavender never once said it was bad. Or that she thinks the designs were awful and hers were better. - she even tried to stick to the original. It's simply more of what she would've done with the concept. 😭 Like. She was just making different points and different views. She never hated on the show or viv. what's with the hate?

@S1eEpy_BuDz

Ай бұрын

Real

IMO the redesigns look like if Hazbin Hotel got a “Super Mario Bros. (1993)”-esque live action movie adaptation.

Finally a respectful video!! I am tired of people bashing her, saying she can’t draw anymore, that she lied about going to art school, that she was always bad at art and that she always sucked at character design. ONE bad video and bad redesign and all of a sudden people turned on her.

@noobmasterruben5167

Ай бұрын

Which is definitely false because this isnt the first time she criticized a design in popular shows. Also those who said she cant draw are just Vivzie stans who have never touched grass. I deffo hated Iruru's design because her backstory is interesting its just that she doesnt look all threatening and Lavender's version made her exactly that

Sometimes i hate how much hate goes into all of vivz work from other people because tbh it just sort of discourages me from making the show i want because the plots i have have some of the thing's other people deem weird or strange and it just makes me kinda sad, 😕

@monkeyfan250

Ай бұрын

make it anyway. as an artist myself you don't realise how good a story can be when it diverges from the norm

@Zeldas_Stars

Ай бұрын

​@@monkeyfan250I really don't have the resources to do so unfortunately so im stuck with using gacha life 2 (which I post on my channel lol)

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

@@Zeldas_Stars Don't make it as a show first, start out with character designs, storyboards and plots, that's what Viv did.

@kingnightmarevin

Ай бұрын

​@@Zeldas_Starsexactly where I started! I picked up a copy of IbisPaint X and had my friends help me with art advice, I'm going 4 years strong at this point and my designs are passable! Rome wasn't built in a day

@monkeyfan250

Ай бұрын

@@Zeldas_Stars there are tons of free programs that give studio quality. And you can start by learning how to create worlds and stuff comic style. I recommend using krita as it is the best free art program currently on the market.

There’s a way that isn’t bad to redesign characters which is real simple Just change the design based on YOUR art style and don’t frame it as “FIXING” frame it as “making these characters in my art style” Also don’t spread hate

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

and also making a design for an AU

@rimaproductions9369

Ай бұрын

@@cinnastag Fantastic point

@CrazyBird-vw4qd

Ай бұрын

​​​@@cinnastagI kinda wanna make AU designs for them now that you mentioned it.

@CrazyBird-vw4qd

Ай бұрын

​​@@cinnastagor I was also thinking of doing a short Animatic where Alastor is redeemed and is reunited with his mom again.

@kialeysmith327

Ай бұрын

literally this. times a million 👏👏👏

My biggest issue with most redesigns is that most of them strip the characters off their iconic traits and completely ignore the character's context and personality. The best way you could do a redesign in my opinion is to watch the whole series first, you can do whatever you want, redesign them whenever you want, but in my opinion the best time in general is at the end of the show because you already have all the information about the characters there and it's way easier to understand the original designs better so you can alter it properly

@trashcat4886

Ай бұрын

Yeah, like a lot of people criticize Vaggie's X over her eye- which I agree looks a bit jarring at times, but it's one of the main identifiers of her past angelic history! The rest of the angel army has the X over their eye when they put their helmets on.

@M4rlol

Ай бұрын

@@trashcat4886maybe making it a bit smaller would work! Or giving it another color, but getting rid of it is too drastic

@trashcat4886

22 күн бұрын

@@M4rlol Yeah honestly. I think it would be fine if they just kept it BELOW her hair. It already looks like she grew her bangs out to hide her missing eye, why not make her hide the X as well?

Games Art student that focuses on Character Design here, my personal opinion is that Lavender had a good point. Usually in art you don't want to have characters with the same colour palettes. Even if it's explained in lore why they're all red, it isn't good in any other way, but I don't think the colours used are particularly good. I also feel like the original characters are overdesigned, however the way Lavender chose to oversimplify the original designs is a little too much, especially Alastor that looks like a regular human. On the topic of backstory and lore, I feel like the show doesn't explain much of anything, so I don't fault Lavender for not knowing backstories for characters other than Husk. Seriously, when did the show tell us the backstory to Alastor and Angel when they were alive? The only place I've heard them are from fans of the series that likely heard it from Viv in those streams she does, but that's not a good way of explaining important lore. I understand the show didn't have many episodes, but all I'm saying is that Lavender shouldn't be faulted for not knowing that info. Overall I'd kind of want a change to the show where a character's colourscheme isn't linked with where they're from in hell, or have a cast that is from different parts of Hell. For Alastor's colous in particular I think that a grainy old photo colourscheme would be more fitting compared to his red. It could also help with his whole Deer design where he can have those white spots on his coat/suit. I'd also shorten his ears and make his horns a little bigger in his normal design, since the ears take up a large amount of the head and it could help show his horns that are always present.

I hate that people think you can criticize an artstyle like that, if people were like this about my artsyle I don’t think I could take it. Also literally I’ve never seen people hate on a persons art style so much just because it isn’t perfect or to their standards, it’s literally just a reason to hate on her more. I don’t even care for vivziepop, but it’s so obvious.

@ytbrado

Ай бұрын

Nuh-uh

@idioticone2349

Ай бұрын

@@ytbrado fuck you mean nu-uh? /hj

@Actualbowlofsoup

Ай бұрын

I think its morw because she a large figure. Also regardless to whether uou can handle it. If you make and official show, you need to be ready to handle criticism.

@idioticone2349

Ай бұрын

@@Actualbowlofsoup no that's not how that works. You can look at any other large artist who has made shows and they do not get this kinda of criticism and harassment. Most of the criticism literally applies to most artstyles and the entertainment industry or its a null point that doesn't even make sense. It is clearly targeted.

@Actualbowlofsoup

Ай бұрын

@@idioticone2349 not to say it isn't clearly targeted, it very much is. A good section of criticism to Viviennes art is overblown. but it does deserve criticism of some degree

Also, gosh forbid these characters have little bits and bobs in their design for fun?? “I don’t understand why he has those little ears” BECAUSE THEY’RE FUN

@ragingchaosgod

Ай бұрын

They're my favorite thing about his design! Love how expressive they can be.

@trashcat4886

Ай бұрын

Also, like!! Even if they're useless like Vaggie's moth-motifs which admittedly did come out of nowhere, they stand right beside whole ass furries. Like Nifty looks so out of place in Lavender's final line up, because she's the only one who looks fully demonic- and that's not even taking into account Husk, who is a full ass furry. Even if Alastor's deer theme wasn't meant to be based on his backstory- I like it because the way that his horns extend when he gets mad makes me think of antenna and it's like he's spreading his radio influence. Plus, it makes for fun dialogue bits like the egg boys asking if his ears are his hair or helps him look more at place when he's standing beside Husk and Angel Dust. Like it's funny that Charlie, the unrespected 'Princess of Hell' looks more human than the formerly human cast around her. It does add a lot to the worldbuilding and the themes (that being how Lucifer has only seen the worst in humanity and believes they're irredeemable, whereas Charlie has chosen to see the good, even in sinners who have 'lost their humanity'). I do wish Lucifer looked more angelic, like you can tell Vaggie was a part of the angelic army, but Lucifer looks like a humanoid demon without his wings.

14:27 i agree so much. I particularly love making my own version of characters from any media I like, and i love the research part. I hate how something that could serve as creative freedom turned into just "I'm better than viv", I had to block the redesigns tag due to such negativity😢 There are people who think that Viv is the worst person in the world and others think that Viv didn't even do the research to create the designs (????) The redesign community has become so toxic and snobbish. which is a shame, because redesigns can be really cool, even more fan redesigns because we don't need to make the design simple for the animation, we can go crazy! I don't think this phase of toxic people will pass, I think the way is to block these people and specify that the redesigns are not done with malice

@Username-iz9wp

Ай бұрын

I love redesigns but I hate it when people only do some of them to spite Viv. Viv Is not a bad character designer and she's made many iconic designs. Any design flaws she's made are pretty minor and aren't enough to damage the show.

@vinililacart

Ай бұрын

@@Username-iz9wp i agree! Her designs are so beautiful and creative, a big inspiration for me

@LillanaMeadows-zc9tj

Ай бұрын

​@Username-iz9wp this! There are flaws in her character designs and it's OKAY to redesign and touch on those flaws! No one is perfect. It's only when it's done to spite Viv and not improve on/touch up and give your own spin that it gets out of hand. I LIVE for Ilovearts23 redesigns because they keep the ideas of the characters in mind while giving smth unique and better (imo) than the Canon designs. (Disclaimer that I dont hate the canon designs or Vivzies art style i just think othr redesigns are better). It's not done out of malice but fun and genuine critique.

@Scaryspider555

Ай бұрын

Tell that to LovesArt123 she literally acts as if her designs are the best thing in the entire universe and that Vivs designs are bad, and they don’t even LOOK like the characters! She strips them of what made the character the characters and made them bland and made them have bad color palettes!

@vinililacart

Ай бұрын

@@Scaryspider555 Yes!! I followed her but I had to unfollow her because she doesn't even seem to like hazbin and helluva anymore and sees everything with bad faith and criticizes literally everything, it became something extremely toxic. I also think she was very chronically online, she thinks loser baby has a bad message, like??? my last straw was in Cherri's redesign video, she said viv doesn't do research properly. This stopped being something for study and for fun a long time ago. People think they can give "criticism" without any ethics or respect and think that everything is fine and there will be no consequences lol

This fandom is so volatile.

@androidps1440

Ай бұрын

This fandom is gonna end like Steven Universe, Star VS. and Voltron (2016)

I like vivs artstyle

@GemstoneFalcon

Ай бұрын

Me too

@dante_0962

Ай бұрын

Good for you.

@MaxxwellWhite-cx6lk

Ай бұрын

So do i

@alphabloodpaw3233

Ай бұрын

same

@friendsplayhouse

Ай бұрын

@@dante_0962 thanks

hot take: lavanderetownes complaints about the show were JUSTIFIED, and correct. yall just didnt like the video because of the redesigns themselves, and completly disregarded her truthful statements.

@Emmaa.19.03

Ай бұрын

REALL

I mentioned this in the YT short that talkes about this, but to elaborate more: I think one problem with redesigns and criticism to someone's art style, not just Vivienne's, is that people easily fall into the trap of thinking preference is a measure for quality. Which ideally for critics of any kind, should be avoided since it's tricky to bring criticism that doesn't come off as simply disliking something because it's not what you want. That's where i think Levender's video goes south incredibly hard, if i had to be honest, her designs are not bad, they are good, but they're not how Vivienne's style, and regardless of how you feel about her style, when it comes to this kind of discussion, you need to understand the design philosophy of either the artist or the IP in order to really bring something to the table. To use a quick example, if i said i didn't like the style of JoJo's bizarre adventure, and when trying to make a redesign, i did something that looks out of Dragon Ball, i would not be making a better product, just something that brings my preference and acting like it was better. It just doesn't work like that

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

The designs were interesting, but they didn't work for the characters.

It’s okay flat haired Alastor doesn’t exist he can’t hurt you

So Vivzie may not follow all the "golden rules of animation" and she get's insane amounts of criticism for it. But I for one believe that this is what makes her artstyle so unique and memorable, I personally genuinly believe that this is the best looking 2D animation that I've seen. And pretty much all the attempts at redesigns I've seen just end up making everything look far more generic. I can't understand how people will hate on something for being unique.

@My_MoodyBlues

Ай бұрын

Just because it's unique doesn't mean it can't be criticized. Their designs look fine standalone, but in animation it breaks apart. There are tons of scenes and even official art where colors, limbs, or accessories are forgotten. It happens, but isn't common. It's not a crime to forget, but I'm seriously unable to see characters and what they're doing in some scenes because literally EVERYTHING is red. When ayylmao pointed that out, he cherrypicked characters that were either not red at all or partially. Some of viv's designs I do like, like vox and adam, but everyone else is forgettable or too difficult to remember. A great example of this is the helluva cast: take their primary colors and try to guess who is who. You really can't. None of them are unique, and are mediocre designs by default. Just because there's a little corn in my shit doesn't make it more unique than any other piece of shit out there. Also they're all literally anorexic, she needs to feed them some nutrients before they get blown away by a single gust of wind. Shave them down to their basic body types and you can barely tell who is who.

@kinka9883

Ай бұрын

​​​??? So it's bad because the characters are too skinny & too much red? Perfect criticism👍. "Anorexic" characters are not inherently a flaw, its not a problem that needs to be fixed. And she made bigger characters & people still pitched a fit. He showed a clip in the vid that Lavender used to show how they blend, was that just a bad example in general? If I can't guess a character based solely on their color scheme, it's not good? Huh? What type of point is that?? They are more than blobs of paint, just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean everyone else can't. If I turned everything to greyscale or just silhouettes, I can still point out the characters. Saying you can't tell these characters apart says more about you than Viv's ability to design characters. You can't tell a human & a cat apart?? Please tell I just misunderstood what you said... I never had an issue with telling characters apart from each other & the background & my eyesight is ass. No one said it can't be criticized, I don't believe the designs are perfect, but all of what you said is just your opinion. Like, nothing objectively correct was said other than animation mistakes that I have to find myself. Amazing, I'm not shocked.

@My_MoodyBlues

Ай бұрын

@@kinka9883 That kinda IS criticism? I'm not claiming to know everything there is about character design or animation, but there's a problem when you have mostly red characters on top of a red background. It doesn't really give much variety to what's going on at all, and yes it does make sense regarding the palettes of characters. A character should only have 3-4 primary colors, and they should at least contrast each other in some meaningful way. Red, red, red, and red is not "good design." There's also unnecessarily complex designs on literally all of her characters; they don't need to be fully redesigned, but maybe toned down just a bit to give animators a break? Take the basic shapes of charlie, alastor, and angeldust, there is ZERO variation in their body types and they're only recognizable through their "pose" I guess. Aesthetic wise, that's not very creative. On top of this, her writing is surface level. We are literally told why characters do things and why they are the way they are, which isn't very competent, so you saying they are "more than blobs of paint" doesn't hold much ground here. There are too many characters, too many subplots, and just too much going on visually and literally.

@kinka9883

Ай бұрын

​@My_MoodyBlues [Long comment] Never said it wasn't criticism, the sarcasm was more targeted at the perfect rather than the criticism. And just to say, I'm fine with criticisms, I don't think the show is a masterpiece & that Viv can do no wrong (I pray she hires someone to manage her twitter so she can stop making herself look stupid), I know both shows are flawed. My brain is also probably fried from anime & possibly why I have no problem telling the same guy multiplied by 5 apart or following a bajillion plots. Are you actually concerned about the animators? When people say this it just feels like they don't really care to me, not saying you or that all of them don't, but the amount of times I've seen animations that I just KNOW the animators have not seen their families in possibly years & no one is talking about animator's health is too many. And they dont have overly complex designs. I've not heard people any complaints or really talks about what goes one behind the scenes & what I have heard seems like what goes on is about what you would expect from any company in the same field if not slightly better. If they are being overworked & it was terrible, I would agree the designs should be simplified to help with that, but so far from what I heard that's not the case. I don't really think it's bad that their body types are not drastically different. Silhouettes are more about poses as well (from what I learned) since you would barely be able to make out what they are if they all just stood there, forward, hands down, & that goes for many of them. Their clothes, pose, & details that stick out are more important than their actual body type unless it effects the silhouette. I went to art school, I know the whole shapes thing, I also know it's not the end-all-be-all. Yes, it does hold water because you were acting like the only thing that separates them VISUALLY is their colors. Don't try to change that now. And being told what a character is doesn't mean they suddenly become barely anything. Poor writing, I can at least give you that, not that I agree that the writing is poor, but you can say that's poor writing. Saying we are told these things isn't bad, show don't tell is a thing but that doesnt mean telling is bad. But I guess I'll have to watch it again & see if I can see that point clearer. Honestly I might just be used to watching things where there's a lot going on. I've seen at least one show with over a dozen characters where the story & character was done well. Difference is they had 2 seasons & 25 eps & not freaking 8 (if you say it can be done, I agree, but not every story is built the same where they can be shortened or lengthened & retain or increase the quality). I believe if Viv was given the amount of episodes she wanted, she could've handled these characters better, but maybe I put too much faith in her, idk. I can see the merit in what your saying, I think Viv puts a bunch of details on things that don't REALLY need to be there (but they already did change details & toned some down, so maybe this is the max they can work with). There are more colors than red, let's be real, but there could've possible been some more put it to make it better (honestly dont know right now, its easy to say its possible without actually even thinking about it). She isnt the best writer in the world (though tbh I have more issue with HB than HH, like I can think of a bunch of ways HB could've done things better, meanwhile I think HH did the best it could with what time they were given & I still like both a lot), but I don't find it terrible. My God have I seen terrible, maybe my standards have just been lowered? I guess another issue is people saying it's shit, the story is shit, the characters & their designs are shit, & Viv is shit too, when at worst it's mid. I'm willing to acknowledge the things I like aren't that great or have problems, but I'll live, raise a family, & die on this hill that the designs aren't the worst or bad & the show isn't either🤷‍♀️

Man their are so many redesigns of the characters in Hazbin, but often their just poorly and add nothing to the original...Everyone can do what he wants, as long as their don't call the original designs bad und say theirs are better. I see this too much in Hazbin Hotel. 😅❤

I have seen some genuinely gorgeous redesigns but I can never get over the people who claim their "fixing" the characters with it. Like if you don't like the style that's one thing but it was more made with what the creator found fun in mind rather then what the majority of others might. Many liking them as is is a bonus but plenty people make fanart redesigns even if they like the original source of a thing. Not sure why people allegedly not in the fandom make fanart like its a weird "gotcha" moment with vivzie if she sees it.

Nah, how the fandom treated her because she had the 'gall' to disagree was embarrassing and abhorrent. It definitely shows that a good portion of the fandom is made up of children. People are allowed to disagree, and they should not be DEGRADED because of that. Lots of people believe that the characters all share a similar color scheme (not in a good way) and blend into the background. The people who outright attacked her need to grow up and realize that the world doesn't revolve around them. That situation honestly made me ashamed to call myself a fan of the show, because I do not want to be associated with that kind of behavior.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

I mean the attacks were too much, but her redesigns were definitely bad.

@gem9535

Ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@shadenox8164So she should get insulted and degraded for them? She shouldn’t have been attack AT ALL, not ‘too much.’ People need to learn that you can criticize without insulting someone. Childish behavior from a childish fandom.

@gaygaymer

Ай бұрын

No fr, I have ADHD and I had to rewatch episodes, slow down different parts, just to clearly tell what's going on sometimes. (Visually) It's so hard to keep up and I understand not everyone will feel that way but omg it's so overstimulating to watch.

@Toki-np3xj

Ай бұрын

If she was genuinely being attacked for making loosely inspired designs, thats some chronically online bs. Though on the flip side, its also unfair to claim everyone who disagreed or called attention to the bad faith 'redesigns' were just "mad she had the 'gall' to disagree" when that definitely doesn't seem to be what most people took issue with. (At least not from what I've gleamed from the comments here and on her recent video with a pinned comment talking about it)

It's nice to see a response with lots of information about the show's lore, but damn, I hate how most of the lore doesn't come from the show itself. If I'm watching a cartoon, I don't wanna do homework to understand it, if I wanted to do homework I would be actually studying 🥲 a lot of Lavender's points made sense to me because I only watched the show and didn't do lots of research on the story, and I understand that to make a redesign you should know as much as possible, but it rubs me the wrong way that the show in itself doesn't tell shit compared to the random information on the internet. Like, how tf are we supposed to know that Angel Dust was a mobster? Or that the background is red because they're in the Pride district? Those informations aren't in the show, at least not cleary. And even with that explanation to why the scenario is so red, people can still criticize the lack of diversity in colors, because watching a red screen for so long is kinda tiring. I like the show, but I won't ignore it's problems.

The biggest sin is that their silhouettes don’t look unique or recognizable anymore lol

@lamented-musings8932

Ай бұрын

Also lavender town is usually good at making characters. It definitely seems rushed.

@Soulcata

Ай бұрын

Hey I actually put in the effort and blacked out her redesigns, and they’re pretty distinct.

@lamented-musings8932

Ай бұрын

@@Soulcata Alastor looks like a random dude lol

@Soulcata

Ай бұрын

@@lamented-musings8932 his silhouette? LT’s shape doesn’t look any worse than Vivs to me. The only thing wrong with her design is the removal of his ears and cane .

@Soulcata

Ай бұрын

@@lamented-musings8932 I see you have DA so I’ll just send the blacked out versions.

At first I liked the idea of sepia Alastor, and the way his red eyes stood out more. But also now I see that it doesn't make that much sense. Sure, sepia is old-timey like Alastor, but it's mostly tied to old-timey photography and television, and we know Alastor despises television.

@dante_0962

Ай бұрын

But not cameras as he gives Vaggie an old camera so he probably doesn’t care about those ones.

I love Lavender’s art a lot honestly but whenever it came to her redesigns I felt a bit disappointed because usually she doesn’t do this poorly when making character redesign and analysis videos. I kinda wish that she put more effort into watching the show and picking up on details before making her redesign. I hate how such kind people can get horrible harassment however because it’s not fully her fault

@S1eEpy_BuDz

Ай бұрын

We both have a Dazai pfp!

@Peach_bun2439

Ай бұрын

@S1eEpy_BuDz Oh great another Bsd fan, how’s the trauma going, bud

Please make a video (or at least a short) about lavendertownes new designs! She redid the video and it’s wayyyy better! She did a lot more research and she doesn’t deserve to be left on a bad note 😭 I like the new designs a lot and I think you will too

She made Alastor look like a crackhead version of Zhongli from Genshin Impact bro 😭

@jaydenklaus

Ай бұрын

Damn it, he does. I hate that I can see that now.

I love LavenderTowne and I think the issue really is that... People can honestly calm down about other people's opinions. Who honestly cares that LavenderTowne had her own critiques? It was a very different spin but I personally adore Hazbin's canon designs AND these new ones. People hating on LavenderTowne's take are just spreading the same hate they thought she was putting out there.

You should probably add an addendum or edit to bring up LavenderTowne's updated/new video to compare/contrast, instead of leaving things on the open-ended drama note! The updated character reimagings she gave for the video were more motif-heavy and still fit the "setting" and the points she brings up does come across with more understanding.

Ignoring everything else wrong in her video, those redesigns were sloppy as shit in general. It's surprising, Lavendertown is usually so much better than that. But I don't think she meant any ill intent, she's never come off that way.

2:51 She has a point though. The characters do blend into the background of the hotel. I understand how in the pride ring everything is red but a darker red or duller red could have helped with this situation. The characters don’t pop as much as they should against the hotel’s interior. What she was saying made sense edit: I also want to add that the hotel is the main setting so just because they stand out in other places in Hell doesn’t mean anything. The main setting is the hotel so they should pop against the hotels interior

@lunacy5772

Ай бұрын

As a fan of the show and its sister show, I actually do agree. I personally have been used to show's color contrast but if I have not been following helluva I see myself have the same problem as I did when I watched the pilot, having trouble catching up with everything in each frame that is. Although the animation itself on the pilot was also very busy so that could've lent itself to the same problem. It definitely has been improved since pilot but a part of it still there. That being said, it's something I have learned to look past as I'm sure actual watchers did too and I'm just absolutely giddy that a youtube animator milestone is finally out and I can see it.

@ionelalexandra

Ай бұрын

Meh, who cares just let us enjoy the show in peace. If y'all don't like it then just don't watch it.

@lunacy5772

Ай бұрын

@@ionelalexandra 🥲I seriously hope u don't mean me. I literally said I liked it man, heck even loved it. Been hyperfixated, watching reactors left and right and avoiding all the needless backlash videos I've been getting. Please don't rope everyone into haters. We so often forget that behind those opinions is also human, screw some of us that try to understand why others can not like the show, to just not be on edge on criticisms all the time.😭

@ionelalexandra

Ай бұрын

@@lunacy5772 Not you mate, the OG commenter.

@ionelalexandra

Ай бұрын

@@lunacy5772 I'm not talking about you, don't worry. I'm just saying that to people who don't like the show in general. Like, if they don't like it because *insert problem* then they shouldn't watch it. Literally NO ONE forces them to. God, I can't stand the internet sometimes.

she has a point with the characters blending too much with the background, the characters color schemes are very similar to the background so its a lil hard to separate them from the bg

I definitely think people should stop using the word “fix”when redesigning someone else’s characters in a nice way. “Fixing” implies that the original is bad, wrong, or flawed which can be more insulting if anything. HH is worthy of criticism, but research should always be done first. Great video dissecting the controversy and being polite about it!

@Saltedroastedcaramel

Ай бұрын

The art space has been toxic for a while now. It's doesn't matter what term you use now. And using the term redesign can also be an excuse for "fixing."

@ionabab7274

Ай бұрын

I know her video is down now, but I watched it when it first came out and as far as I remember, she never said she was “fixing” Viv’s art. Throughout the video she complimented parts of Vivienne’s redesigns, and started out her video saying Viv receives a lot of undeserved hate for her art. It feels hypocritical that people are complaining that LavanderTowne didn’t research enough, while consistently taking her video in worst faith possible, or talking about it when they didn’t watch it themselves.

@koumoriarts9469

Ай бұрын

@@ionabab7274 Hey, thanks for replying and I agree, LavenderTown wasn’t “fixing” Viv’s style or characters; just making her own version of it while offering criticism. My point against fixing other’s art is in reference to Twitter’s toxic behavior to other artists when they redraw and claim to “fix” it. I didn’t directly say Towne did this, but I can see the confusion for that point. Now my actual criticisms for LT’s video is that there is still a lack of research with how she is explaining the characters. She’s a great artist and content creator, I just sadly think her video was rushed with the cast redraw she did, and confusing fan art for promotional art.

Yeah i think it's mean when they say "fixed". But soem redesigns like when artists do challenges to draw characters in other styles it can be really cool

I'm so glad that others share the same opinion as me. I've watched this girl for a while and always agreed with her commentary and a bunch of things and all, and I thought I was actually crazy whenever she started to say so much...stuff? Like how lmao said, it shows like zero research and stuff. I love lavendertowne but like...come on...

@lelemar751

Ай бұрын

I ALWAYS stay away from the Twitter drama and all.... But...WHAT DO YOU MEAN IRRVELAVNTTTO THE CHARACTER??? I actually got mad oh my goodness.

@bored_potato

Ай бұрын

@@lelemar751 bruh same, when she she finished her designs, it was just a NOPE from me. It's obvious that while she may have watched the show, she didnt really absorb any of the worldbuilding stuff that explains why the characters are the way they are appearance-wise, which is bizarre as hell because Lavendertowne has always struck me as the kind of person who actually does research before criticizing. She's clearly done it in previous videos like the Poor Things redesign, what the heck happened in the background while she was making Hazbin Hotel's?

@lelemar751

Ай бұрын

@@bored_potato EXACTLY. It's like she just started saying these things..just to say things and get on the popular topics... I was furious...like...no research at all...

@S1eEpy_BuDz

Ай бұрын

I mean, defending Lavender a bit, most of the lore of the characters were online like Twitter, and I wouldn’t blame her for not doing all that research. I don’t think she was hating though, since she was just criticizing like everyone else

I feel like there's one _specific KZreadr who does redesign videos of Hazbin characters in particular_ that's a worse offender of this than LavenderTowne, but I'm not going to name and shame. Update: Lavender has released the remake of her original video, you should watch and analyze it.

@BadEndingGamer

Ай бұрын

I THINK might know who your talking about but I won't mention it them either-

@SavouryGalette

Ай бұрын

​​@@BadEndingGamer I mean, if you don't fully know who I'm talking about, I don't really see the issue with guessing who you think it is.

@kingnightmarevin

Ай бұрын

If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, then I think you just don't like people criticizing your favorite shows because the person in question does have some good advice

@SavouryGalette

Ай бұрын

@@kingnightmarevin Well who do you think I'm talking about, then?

@rat10758

Ай бұрын

Lovesart23?

I really love Alastors red color scheme, its vibrant and firey! my 1 problem with it is that, when i first watched the piolt afew years ago..I thought for the longest time that he was a fox because of the red, sharp teeth, and pointy ears. I know hes not now! 😅 And its obvious once u see the deer antlers (though they are very small and kinda hard to see on a first viewing). So because of this confusion i understand why many redesigners give him a different color scheme. Still love his design! Just stating an alternitive viewpoint some designers and viewers may have twords Alastor.

This is likely a controversial take but I will try to be respectful in how I state my own opinion. I think Lavendertown has a point. At least, when it comes to the statement of characters being too busy in design and all having too similar of color schemes. Because the thing is, cherry picker background or not, the characters do disappear into a lot of the backdrops. One thing you are taught in art design is stateration and that if you turn a image into black and white, you should still be able to separate easily what is apart of the character, where a article of clothing stops on them and where the background is. When you do that with a lot of images from the Vivzie show, a lot blends together which does tell you there isnt enough diversity in the colors. So to that end allow, I say people pointing this out have a fair point. And if the redesign is just to change colors or get a bit more diversity in, I see no issue. And the designs are very busy with several details either being missed because of it or the confuse others. I know too many people who still do realize Angel Dust is wearing two sets of long gloves because the second ones are the same color as his fur. Or other animators being open when they say how these characters are very complicated to animate because of all the details. To those ends and to those ends all, I will say critique these points is fair. But people do need to be respectful in how they say this because they are still Vivzie's creations and like her children. It's okay to say the characters don't really reflect their time periods as said but still realize these are some impressive designs. Vivzie does animate it herself too so it's not like she isn't realizing the work into these scenes. All in all, I think it's just a matter of how far people take it. Like fans have been redesigning characters for ages so it's not like this is anything new. Look at all the Undertake AU's for Pete sake. But no one was saying the designs were straight up trash. That's where my line with Vivzie haters is.

@EnazAkaYemeko

Ай бұрын

Preach! In my opinion, i actually liked the alastor redesign. It's pretty solid but i wish Hailey (lavendertowne) kept some red accents, his deer antlers, deer ears and yellow teeth then it would have been pretty cool :) As for the others, i don't like them as much

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

My opinion is...which characters have too much detail? Husker. That's it. The only really blend into the background in the hotel lobby. They have the background contrasted a lot more in other areas...and it is a non-issue in animation. In a still piece of art, sure, don't do that. Character design...is subjective, you're also taught contrast and blending in (Look at Damacia and Piltover from League of Legends) for the sake of storytelling. If you're unable to tell where these characters' clothes end or begin...yeah, that's not the character design in *this* case I think the Hotel needs more contrast against characters, the bar and charlie's room was the only part in it that was contrasting against most characters. Animators complaining about being paid for animating a character...pretty stupid, don't accept the money if you're not prepared to do the work

@TheDoctorCog

Ай бұрын

Agreed! Lavender made some fair points and whether you liked her redesigns or not, that's no excuse for the amount of hate she received. People just want to be hateful for no reason.

@gem9535

Ай бұрын

@@TheDoctorCog The Hazbin Hotel fandom is one of the more toxic communities I've come across. Likely because a large chunk of it is made up of children, but Vivzie hasn't exactly told her fans to, ya know, stop harassing people.

@Username-iz9wp

Ай бұрын

​@@gem9535 I've known about a worse Fandom that gets super puritany over any r34 of the characters. its funny because almost everyone that ever makes a callout post about people who make r34 of those characters end up being way worse than the people they're calling out and getting Cancelled themselves.

(I think) Lavender town didn’t watch the series or didn’t pay attention to it a a lot, but the redesigns i don’t rlly like it that much (she is good at drawing tho, I just don’t like the redesigns, as mentioned by Lmao).

10:03 Ngl, this redesign of Alastor kind reminds me of Plankton from the SpongeBob Musical. I honestly don’t know how to feel about that…

@Daftdish34

Ай бұрын

💀

I'm not going to say whether I like or not the way you criticized her redesigns because i didn't watch the video, so i won't say anything about that. But i will disagree about one thing, mainly the research part. Just to clarify, this is my opinion. You are free to disagree with it along as it's done worth respect. Now, due to the clips you showed of her, it can be assumed that she's new to the Hazbin hotel series, which makes sense why she doesn't know the lore behind each character or the series it self. But I do feel like if a new fan of someone who knows nothing of the series, watches it completely or part of it but doesn't understand the reasoning behind the why a character is the way it is, that's a faulty on how much it's dived on each character making it seem superficial unless someone that is new takes time out of their day to do research on it to understand it better. That doesn't mean that it's a bad show but it is a flaw that can affect how new fans that know nothing of the characters are going to visualise them on the long run. The series feels messy, don't get me wrong though but Hazbin hotel has many side plots to only have eight episodes and when there's a conflict it's not explored deeper on it to make the resolution of it feel deserved. Plus each character needs to have an arc explaining why they act the way they do, how they got in said positioned situation and why they wanna change while also each arc having the side characters that contribute to said main character arc appear for far longer with more plot on it. I would of like the show more if it was longer because that way the writers could of have so much more plot to stretch and explain in better ways and make it feel earn and pleasing. Also, the show has eight episodes but are really only eight gonna explain and show to the fullest what happened in three months? I feel like the timeskips of each month were done in the wrong way and with no notice of how much time has passed and it just makes it feel rushed. Alot of the plot was squished together and eesonled in the same episode all the time and it makes the character development feel undeserved and out of place. An example of that is Charlie's "daddy issues", on the pilot it's showed how Charlie calls her mom and vents on the voicemail about how she feels that Lucifer was right, making obvious how there is some type of tension, but on the official series Charlie doesn't have that, making the whole "daddy issue" feel out of place. Plus new fans will not know until it's pointed at by the other characters instead of showing it by her actions and mannerisms when she talks to her dad, and this is a problem that happened more than once. No one needs to do research on a series lore to understand it because the series it's supposed to show it, otherwise it takes out the fun of watching something new and understand it by just watching it. But that's my opinion and it's what I think. Even so, it's entertaining enough and i am looking forward the next season.

Some time in the past, Lavendertowne has said she watches the first video in a series and rhe last video. She atleast said she did it when doing redesigns of anime characters ("boring anime protagonists" if i remmeber she called them/the video correctly) so that could be a big reason why she doesnt know too much about the series w/ how each characters' canon designs work so well with the universe. I've been a fan of Lavender gor awhile now and its a shame that video is one of the few i missed before i heard all of this.

I'm a fan of LavenderTowne (heck I have a copy of her webcomic on my shelf) but these designs were NOT it I can definitely tell they were rushed

Can everyone on twitter and in the comments just leave her alone? She made a mistake and she apologised twice. Let it go, there are bigger problems in the world. - hazbin and lavendertowne fan

@androidps1440

Ай бұрын

Nah fck off she still never learns She and her horrible fanbase killed FNAF creator's career so she and her fanbase in general are gonna live with that pain forever by the internet making fun of her and her shows

@MaddiePatterson-jb3lg

Ай бұрын

@android Ummm... I think she was talking about lavender...

@androidps1440

Ай бұрын

​@@MaddiePatterson-jb3lg and it still the same shit When there's a fair critique she bring her goblins to destroy who made that critique

Lavender town definitely made some mistakes but I think her criticism over all is correct. It’s very much from a place of “art teacher” but she’s definitely not wrong. If you create a character that is super busy on a super busy background with super busy interactions in a busy universe it can be overwhelming for the viewer. There is nothing wrong with making a character complex but if everyone around them is also complex it can make them look like they are just another character in a sea of complexity There are definitely some great designs ( lucifer, angel and husk) but overall the show could have been better. The fact the hotel is red and half the main cast is also red is a huge issue. In the video we get given the reasons behind why they are designed the way they are. “Red because they are from wrath.” “ Vaggie is the body type she is because she’s is an exterminator” “Alister has fluffy ears because of the deer and hunter lore” but excusing bad character designs due to lore doesn’t change the fact they are badly designed or could be improved. Having one character being a bit bigger to try and diversify the shape language in the cast is a good criticism. Pointing out the design of Alister could have been more cohesive (long, thin, sharp edges) is a valid criticism Changing the colour of the hotel so the characters stand out more because it’s the primary setting for the show(ik we visit heaven and other places but we spend the most time in the hotel and regularly revisit it) is a valid criticism. Diversity in shape language, colour and clarity is a big issue in the show and I think that’s what she was trying to tackle overall. I like hazbin a lot form a storyline pov but art wise HUGE improvements could have been made. We can look at Helluva boss and see that. The difference between the pilot and the actual show is apparent. From the animation to the storytelling characters and more. It’s a great show and doesn’t bore the way hazbin does in parts. It’s such a shame because hazbin could have been even better than helluva boss but instead we got an okay show. It’s not bad it’s pretty good but it could have been amazing. (Idk that’s just my opinion, I still liked the show but hellva feels way better imo lol. Idk if Ayy (op) is an artist but it felt like lavenders criticism was shot down even though it’s mostly correct. (Not defending those redesigns though because they were oversimplified and didn’t address the issues she pointed well enough.))

I am not going to lie I don’t like shows that require the audience to “Do Research” on the show they are watching. If I want to watch a show I expect to watch something that is self contained and can stand alone thing with someone needing to go out of there way to find one specific detail about a character. Viv has done many livestreams and tweets about Hazbin Hotel’s development with her talking about the show which is nice but for new viewers or people who haven’t seen or even knew about her it could feel like you’re being punished for not “Being there since the beginning” Like Mimzy, I knew Mimzy existed but I hated how she was shoved into the episode and didn’t really add anything to the show itself. Like she cute and all but what did she do? She lore dumped about Alister then left, I felt like she wasting screen time away from charlie and her dad(Something that feel needed more development then just them singing a song) Now concerning LavenderTown’s Video, I may have a basis towards her since I was one of the one people who saw the video before it got taken down but at the same time I also really like Hazbin and his lore. So I feel like it cancels eachother out. I really liked her video I feel like it was really nice and coming from someone who doesn’t know much about the show(I’ll get to that) She did a pretty good job at redesigning the characters(I also didn’t like Niffy but there’s always a dud somewhere). Also might add that she herself made a little like disclaimer/warnjng about her not knowing much about the show itself and it’s creator and that all the screenshots were also taken from tumblr and she also admits that they could be cherrypicked by hateful fans but still continues to critique them as if it were any other regular show, no bisis no hatred no nothing just an honest giving her own take and suggestions on the art. Now I will admit that LavenderTown’s redesigns were I bit rushed and below her standards but I still think they were honestly pretty good despite all the misinformation/ not understanding the show. Are they show accurate? No. Can they be improved on? Absolutely. Dose she admit that she has a more simple art style compared to Viv and also takes into account animation? Yes!!! She knows that she’s simple and takes it as a compliment. She redesigns in her style and gives reasons for her decisions. I loved her video just like how I liked every other redesign video I watch, they look at the designs critically and put their own spin on it. Obviously she doesn’t know about the lore of hazbin hotel she hasn’t watched it, obviously she doesn’t understand why the character designs she wasn’t apart of the Hazbin Hotel fandom, and obviously she make her designs simple it’s in her style(also took animation into account) I hate when people hate on other people for expressing a thought that goes against them, just expect your differences and go on with your life this isn’t politics!! Someone just wants to talk about a topic they’ve seen other people talk about, what now she can’t commentate on any other shows because they popular?? Get over yourself and let people give there honest opinions on the show for fucks sake Anyways yeah those are my thoughts on the matter, hopefully this makes sense and I’m not the only one feeling this way.

Now that she made a 2nd version of that video, are you going to respond to it, since she brought you up when she did Charlie?

I've admired Lavandertowne's art for a long time and I truely believe she ment no harm. Hopefully the fandom did'nt scare her away from trying again when she's done more reasearsh and can bring her A game to redesigning Hazbin characters.

Honestly redesigns are kinda bad but personally I thought her criques where fine espesially with the colour pallete thing (obviously except the thing with the fan art). Personally I don't think she wasn't trying to hate and trying to be good faith.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

Except when you look at the image at its proper size there wasn't an issue and there's a reason there's so much red?

@trixxart777

Ай бұрын

@shadenox8164 I mean overlapping colours for example when characters are hugging or being close to eachother because of the similar colours they blend into eachother wich was a segment of the video I thought was good and it wasn't shown in this video. Hell I even thought the more sepiotone idea for Alastor was an intesting idea maybe they could make it an overlay layer to give a bit of a yellow tint wich would the best of both world where he can still be red but still have that sort of old fashioned look. Hell you could even inverse the overlay for Vox soo Alastor and him can still contrast eachother.

From the perspective of someone who regularly watches Lavender towne for nearly 8 years and is also mega fan of Hazbin and is a Hazbin aplogizist, I have a lot of thoughts about this situation First, Lavender towne is someone I geinunely look up to because she's the reason I realized art could be my career and why I'm going into the animation industry now as an adult. In the art community she's generally very respected and actually normally offers geinune helpful tips, (Unlike someone like Koleen or however you spell it. Its the one who made the racist art tutorial) Lavender helped me grow and improve as an artist a lot. She also has gone to art school so she actually knows what's shes doing when it comes to art (for the most part) BUT even as someone who admires her greatly, yeah, I can agree these redesigns were just plain terrible, This was probably one of the worst videos she's made... Like ever. And I think the main problem with it is just the fact that she jumped on a bandwagon and did not do her research. Like I said she usually is pretty credible so I think if she had actually did her research the video and redesigns would've been a lot better. But thankfully she did own up to it and wasn't rude about it when called out and criticized. Not a lot of people would do that. I myself is someone who really loves Viv's artstyle and character designs, but even I have some critiques of them. And tbh 99% of the time my problem with Viv's designs is just the fact they're too overdesigned for the medium of animation. (Saying this as an animation student myself). Overdesigning is not an issue in itself, it just depends on how many times you have to draw the character. These designs would actually be okay if it was something like a painting, illustration, or even a web comic, but for animation its just too much. (Listen im one of the people who loves Bee's design but if you told me I had to animate her I'd tell you to go fuck yourself) Otherwise, her designs for the most part are fine to me. There's some things here and there like too many characters having the suit and bowtie look but that doesn't honestly bother me like it does for other people. What im trying to say is the hate on Viv's style is overblown af, even as someone like me who has genuine critques of her designs can tell you that the hate is overblown. All art is subjective, there are guidelines to follow but there are no concrete rules. Any "rule" can be broken if done right. Two people can look at the literal exact same piece of work and one can hate it and the other can adore it. There is never a right or wrong to art, so people saying "Viv's (or anyone's) artstyle is objectively wrong here's how I fixed it in my artstyle which is totally right hehe lol" is objectively bullshit because, again, all art is subjective. You can have a profressor that rententlessly criticizes your project and gives you a poor grade meanwhile another profressor can adore the exact same project and grade you highly. I keep saying this because ART IS SUBJECTIVE. THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG.

The argument that all of characters look too similar is honestly wild. Firstly, they truly don't. Maybe some features or color schemes overlap, but that honestly is the point of an art style. All of the characters are supposed to look like they originate from one consistent universe. The twitter screenshot at 1:41 is particularly bothersome because the poster relates five characters who, what, all grin with teeth? I don't even want to touch the complaints that the characters are too "edgy" and look like they were "designed by teens". Shaming design choices has no place in the art community.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

...What's edgy about Husk's design? People I swear.

She called you out about Charlie's horns in her new, updated video

As a huge Lavendertowne fan, I was honestly disappointed. You can see the sapphic eclipse art she posted literally today and it looks way better. This whole situation makes me sad. I hope she remakes the video with proper research and knowledge and we get actually good work this time. I feel like she’s burnt out since she used to not post super often.

Also like the deer cannibal thing was probably from Alastor like early concept like from Viv high school days i think were dude was a deer i think. Lavendertowne still didn't really do good researcher

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

not just that, he's a cannibal and his look emulates a wendigo

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

@@cinnastag And don't forget, he also sports the deer features as a sign of how he died...killed by a deer hunter after getting mauled by his hunting dogs, I believe while trying to bury the evidence of his latest murder.

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

@@cinnastag No he doesn't emulate a wendigo because wendigos don't look like that. She just made a deer demon guy dude.

My own personal opinion here about the redesign/fixing thing, which of course people are free to agree/disagree with.. Taking someone's characters, criticizing them and then creating something akin to the phrases of "better, makes sense, consistent" etc is... inherently fixing them. Regardless to what Lavander said, she IS trying to fix these characters. Regardless to my thoughts on how much of a bad thing it is to take people's established work and "fix" it is; I cannot agree to the sense that there is a big separation between just "reimagining a character", so-to-speak, and fixing them. What Lavender did here WAS fixing them. The fact that she basically critized their very existence and then went 'here's what they would like like if they were good' (apologies for severe paraphrasing here, just shortening the point) is exactly the problematic point that I think got people so riled up in the first place. What further aggravated the issue was the fact that it was so poorly researched that yes, she actively made every character worse, including this once again weird obsession with making latina looking characters fat in cartoons.. Redesigning characters innocently is a fun and lighthearted thing, even among genuine criticism the overall point isn't to improve, but to offer an alternative take. Fixing a character is to point out 'inherent design flaws', half insulting the work of their creator and then going about a total redesign, not to offer an alternative take but to suggest a 'better' view. Redesigning characters can be anything from giving them new outfits, expressing character traits (or trying out new ones) to more extreme points or even fun typical stuff like genderbending them. Fixing characters is exactly what Lavander did, regardless to what she said.

@Mokiefraggle

Ай бұрын

Thank you for saying it. I felt so incredibly off-put by her redesign of Vaggie in large part due to the "Okay, so here's our short Latina character, so we obviously have to make her fat!" feel I got off that. That weird stereotype of short Latinas to also be expected to be fat/aggressively over-curvy really bothers me, because it's just weird and uncomfortably over-sexualized in so many cases as well.

@trashcat4886

Ай бұрын

Yeaahh. Like, in her defense, she does very often say that her redesigns aren't meant to be "critique," but that's also like saying "No offense, but-" that doesn't make her 'issues' no longer critique. I agree with a lot of people saying that the most upsetting thing about all of this is that LavenderTowne, specifically, is usually better than this. She had no reason to put out such rushed work, especially when this hype/shit train doesn't seem to be cooling down any time soon. ^ However, I also want to point out that the video pointing at LavenderTowne specifically isn't calling JUST her out, it's rather- she's a popular redesigner and her most recent Hazbin work showcases the overarching issues with redesigning as a WHOLE. I don't think she deserved that much hate, Twitter is a cesspool, but I agree with a lot of the overarching critiques.

I don’t think LavenderTown using the fan art was an accident, it was cropped in a way specifically to exclude the watermark. Maybe I’m paranoid after seeing that HBomberguy video but seeing someone not give credit gives me the ick

@cinnastag

Ай бұрын

it's likely because a lot of pirate websites use that exact image for promotional material...which is why she got confused calling it promotional 💀

@shadenox8164

Ай бұрын

Its likely that's how she found it. If she knew it wasn't the promotional material she would have just gotten the promotional material.

@Toki-np3xj

Ай бұрын

@@cinnastag This, I don't think her using it was bad faith or malicious, however her editing the characters on it and such without at least checking to see was a bit poor taste.

I find it funny how so many ppl in this comment section are trying to argue with an artist that has been to school and a degree in fucking art. Don't get me wrong, I love Hazbin Hotel, it's such a comfort show to me, but some designs are just flat out lacking. Her point about the characters blending straight into their backgrounds is valid, like if all your characters have a red undertone, design a main environment with a more varied colour palette. The show explains its own lore so badly that it makes new watchers have no idea who the fuck these characters are. But the show doesn't care, because those who are watching it regularly already watched the pilot and are caught up on the lore. From what I've gathered, there are hardly any new watchers of this show because viewers are fucking confused. There are so many disjointed parts in the show that do not connect unless you've been interacted for a while. Lavendertowne's design wasn't good, but that doesn't discredit her as an artist

@smudgedglue

Ай бұрын

I’m glad i’m not the only one who agrees with her. Yes her designs were ass but a lot of the critique she gave on the characters designs weren’t bad. This fandom worships the characters and the series so any change is bad change. I personally hate this channel because he’s just apart of the echo chamber that is Hazbin Hotel

@m3ttalc874

Ай бұрын

@smudgedglue5891 omg yesss. I've always thought this guy had some bias (not to throw shade at him I get being passionate about something)

@smudgedglue

Ай бұрын

@@m3ttalc874 yeah a lot of the hazbin hotel channels are pretty biased. I like the fun facts about the show but when it comes to making a video and being like “uh she’s wrong” the whole time is annoying

That background change looks awful. If that was how the show was, I'd probably throw up. WHAT IS IT WITH PEOPLE MAKING VAGGIE WITH HUGE HIPS AND THIGHS

Its so weird because my superheroine OC is fully inspired by Vaggie. Her hair was so full of creativity i wanted to make my own version.

I’m just gonna redesign these characters JUST to spite yall😭

I've heard on this the research debate, and want to point out that this creator is the main person who researched any of this. Most don't know this (nowhere does the show say 'how' Alister died) although its easy to find the information on this specific channel and mainly this channel. So people can be both uniformed and in need of more research to reach this level of the fandom. If you don't follow the artist all you'd know is he's the cajun deer with a hit or miss on spotting his hooves. The show isn't an encyclopedia and Lavender admitted she hadn't yet watched it. (Just pointing out the middle ground here, as I'm watching these takes today)

I hate when peoole call mixed race people that are "too light" white washed like huh? My friend is mixed and she is the same makeup shade as me a white woman and when are skin is compared we are more or less the exact same other than her freckles.

Honestly I feel bad for levendertowne. I’ve been a fan of hers for years. Her art usually looks better. I understand why ppl hated the redesigns. But I’m glad that this drama isn’t about anything actually serious. Like it’s just “hey I disagree with what you said about the character design.” I’m glad this art drama is actually about ART

"You can't tell that this was the Princess of Hell or Lucifer's daughter at all" you can't tell that from her OG design either she's literally just a blonde girl in a suit HELPPP I get what you're trying to say but a lot of your criticisms aren't actually getting anywhere. Vaggie and Charlie, while in different styles, look very similar to their original designs. Vaggie's design is already incredibly simple, the only stand-out part being her hair which is why she looks so different in the redesign (this is not meant to be mean or malicious it's just that, other than silhouettes (which are shared between many characters in the show), characters especially like Charlie and Vaggie don't stand out very much)

The redesigned looks bland, tbh