TIMESTAMP SECTIONS BELOW ↓↓↓↓↓ 00:00 Intro 00:38 Hotel Hazbin Art Style 01:09 The Criticisms 02:38 Meppity 04:33 Meppity's Apology 05:04 LavenderTowne 05:23 LavenderTowne Apology 05:33 LavenderTowne Controversy 06:49 Why did they do it? 07:41 My Thoughts 08:21 Why the fandom hates fixing! 08:44 Summary 09:21 Lessons Learned 10:09 Your Thoughts? "Hazbin Hotel" is an animated web series created by Vivienne Medrano, also known as VivziePop. It follows the story of Charlie, the princess of Hell, who opens a hotel in an attempt to rehabilitate demons and redeem their souls. The show features vibrant animation, unique character designs, catchy musical numbers, and a darkly comedic tone. Its popularity stems from its distinct visual style, engaging characters, and the way it tackles themes of redemption, forgiveness, and personal growth in a setting that's both fantastical and relatable. The show has garnered a dedicated fanbase and has received praise for its creativity and originality in the crowded world of online animation. Additionally, the show's humor and willingness to tackle mature themes have contributed to its appeal. LavenderTowne, also known as Haley, is a popular KZreadr and artist known for her art-related content. She creates videos about drawing, painting, art challenges, and tips for aspiring artists. Haley's channel often features character design challenges, tutorials, art product reviews, and insights into her own creative process. She has a charming and approachable personality that resonates with her audience, making her a favorite among art enthusiasts on KZread. Meppity is a prominent digital art content creator on KZread, specializing in tutorial videos that cater to aspiring artists. Her expertise is in digital art through instructional content, providing viewers with tips, techniques, and insights into her creative process. While primarily focused on tutorials, Meppity occasionally showcases her artwork and workflow, offering viewers a glimpse into her artistic journey. With a talent for teaching and a passion for digital art, Meppity has established herself as a valuable resource for artists seeking to improve their skills and expand their creative horizons. Some criticisms of the character designs in "Hazbin Hotel" revolve around issues such as complexity, clarity, and consistency. Some viewers feel that certain character designs are overly intricate or cluttered, making it challenging to discern details or follow their movements on screen. Additionally, there have been concerns about consistency in design elements across characters and scenes, leading to a lack of cohesion in the visual presentation. The controversy around fixing these designs stems from differing perspectives within the fanbase and the creative team. Some fans advocate for adjustments to certain character designs to address perceived flaws and enhance readability, while others argue that such changes would compromise the artistic integrity of the show and undermine the creator's vision. This debate highlights the tension between artistic freedom and audience feedback, as well as the challenge of balancing creative expression with audience expectations in a collaborative medium like animation.

The hate is INSANE she literally said it was just an art practice and she wasn’t trying to make anything “better” she was just drawing it the way she would have drawn it, it was literally just an art practice 💀

@15Anime4Ever15

Ай бұрын

Her video was riddled with misinformation and a clear lack of understanding of the source material. She mistook fanart for official art, for god's sake. She already owned up to her misgivings and apologized for it so don't act like she did nothing wrong.

@ChairChairChairChairChairChair

Ай бұрын

They’re so bad tho

@ChairChairChairChairChairChair

Ай бұрын

@@15Anime4Ever15Exactly, she literally traced someone’s artwork. She apologized (good) buuuut that doesn’t fix things

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

​@@15Anime4Ever15The problem wasn't misinformation. It was the lack of information, and no misinformation was intentionally spread. The hate is very much uncalled for

@15Anime4Ever15

Ай бұрын

@@anunwantedsoul3672 I agree that the hate went overboard but the people defending her need to acknowledge she did do wrong with her video, even SHE has acknowledged it.

I would like to point out that it wasn't just the fans of HH criticizing Lavendertowne's redesigns, there was plenty of "How could Lavendertowne possibly make something uglier then Vivizepop" sentiments being thrown around.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

And it's so upsetting because as an artist myself, we all have off days but when you're seen as someone who makes beautiful art, you're never allowed to make anything that doesn't live up to that. We all have our off days.

@AJtheSiren

Ай бұрын

@@anunwantedsoul3672 Ugh I feel this so much. I have constant anxiety with my art about not living up to my previous work. But sometimes that's just how it goes.

@djailsonfelipe84

Ай бұрын

I'm sorry but when you're going to criticize someone by doing worse than them it's just funny. Those designs are AWFUL, and in comparison to HH's they're even further comical on how terrible they look.

@asdhggkrgkrmgirejlkgelkrjg2757

Ай бұрын

I never liked Lavendertowne's designs so it's not a big surprise that redesigns are gonna be something like this.

@konniekon525

29 күн бұрын

Like that is NOT alastor. That’s Benjamin or Jacob or smth

I honestly saw more hate on LavenderTowne's designs from the Hazbin Hotel haters more than fans. I thought Lavender was actually pretty respectful in the video. I think people just kind of dislike her personality. I got in a few debates on twitter about this (in defence of LavenderTowne) and several people were justifying making fun of her because shes "Problematic" when in reality she's never been hateful. Maybe arrogant at times and she comes accosed as privileged but she seems like a genuine person. I personally didnt like her designs but it totally did not warrant the hate she was getting. People were just straight up evil to her, but of course I dont expect anything different from twitter and tiktok.

@Devilspade

Ай бұрын

yeah i think mep was alot more bonkers with how outragedly obv it was that she just didnt care considering her other art is actually pretty damn incredible LIKE SISTER IN CHIRST WHY WOULD YOU THINK YOUR LAST DRAWING SHOULD BE SEEN BY ANYONE BUT YOUR OWN EYES?!

@nonexistent9277

Ай бұрын

How is she privileged? Just curios

@wwandmitski

Ай бұрын

hat problematic things has she does in the past? And how does she come off as privileged? no hate just asking! 😁

@kiesjies

Ай бұрын

@@wwandmitski don't look in the past every time

@masonanciel

Ай бұрын

I mean this as a genuine question, but how does Lavender come across as privileged? I haven't watched her in a year or so.

Lavendertowne was literally just doing a practice as well as addressing criticisms she heard about the designs. I think folks are blowing it out of proportion because she said she didn't personally like Angel's design, and angel is a fan favorite. She didn't mean for these designs to be taken as a "these are better than the old ones" they were supposed to be taken as a "How could it have been different?"

@15Anime4Ever15

Ай бұрын

Her video was riddled with misinformation and a clear misunderstanding of the source material.

@eddie-roo

Ай бұрын

@@15Anime4Ever15wdym misinformation? The only thing objectively wrong about it is accidentally using fan art instead of actual promotional material

@Valentina-kf3mm

Ай бұрын

@@15Anime4Ever15I’m sorry are going to copy and paste this comment over and over again cuz even then couldn’t people have told politely that she had misinfo instead of harassing her over a bad redesign

@just_juneau_2181

Ай бұрын

​@@15Anime4Ever15 I mean yeah she didn't do much research but even still, that's not something that deserves a whole controversy. There are much worse instances of people not doing enough research, but this whole drama is just because people were like "Omg this random artist on the internet doesn't know the lore of my favorite show 🥺🥺 She's a horrible person 😭😭😭"

@ellrelly

Ай бұрын

​@@just_juneau_2181that's what I thought lol. I like Hazbin Hotel but geez the fans needs to calm down

There are plenty of redesigners for HH that are snide, arrogant or disrespectful about it, but Lavendertown was not one of those people. She even said it wasn't meant to be a fix, just her take on them. While I didn't like any of her redesigns and felt she kind of half assed the whole video, I don't think she deserves hate or animosity for it. We all have duds under our belts, no matter what we do. I can't speak to the other person mentioned because I've never seen her videos.

Personally, I don’t like redesigning videos in general. Most of the times the redesign, physical and backstory-wise, are so different that it just feels like a completely different character that’s more based on the original, which is where you get problems like people taking important aspects of a character out. I’d like it if people did more research so that the redesign feels more reasonable instead of just a new batch of OCs.

@aetherroses

Ай бұрын

Neither do I. Either they redesign it so much that it looks recognizable to the original concept, doesn't look good or it gives this air that the original design is "bad" and needs fixing. There are some character designs that are just peak and I would never ever ever bother ""fixing""" or "redesigning". I see many who redesign or fix character designs just slap on details just for aesthetic and don't think about the purpose in adding a detail to a character, which is a big Be Careful rule in any Character Design 101 class. Also I hate the term "fixing a design/art" with a burning passion. I'm sorry but the very idea of fixing "art" feels incredibly narcissistic and short sighted, because it makes me think of art ""fixers"" who go whitewash/blackwash characters, have even more broken anatomy than the original design or art, etc. And wouldn't you know, a good amount of those people are narcissistic and short-sighted. I'd rather people just draw characters in their art style than just redesign so much that it might as well be a different character. Because at least with that, it's still the same concept, color and flair but has a different vibe to it you know? Like imagine what Hazbin Hotel Characters would look like in a Don Bluth or Renaissance Disney style. They'd look so completely different but the concept is there (any vulgar adult parts of the design would be heavily toned down ofc because Don Bluth/Renaissance Disney is caters to a general audience and not just adults. Honestly Hazbin Hotel would be completely different if it was a rates G or PG movie where they had to make something like demons in Hell still be kid friendly)

@vulpiixfoxx

Ай бұрын

I understand your point of view but redesigning characters can be a fun exercise for artists. It can be fun to see how an artist would design a certain character if they were the one told to design them. Not everyone who redesigns characters are doing it because they think their versions would be better, some do it just for the fun of it with no intended malice towards the creator. Sure they could just “design their own OCs” but it’s always just as interesting to see how differently artists think from one another when it comes to character design. Thats my view at least, obviously I don’t agree with redesigning character if your intent is to “fix them”.

@Actualbowlofsoup

Ай бұрын

I mean isn't that the point of redesigns? To change them from their original design. Sure some can look so different from how they originally look but that's just someone's personal taste going into the design. Really if a redesign isn't done out of malice there no issue with it. No design is perfect, that can be said especially about vivs design.and since the show and an official show I think people have every right to redesign it. If she was a small creator with her own characters yeah, but she not that.

@Trecherousbeast

Ай бұрын

@@vulpiixfoxx it can be fun to see how an artist might interpret a character, but the problem with most redesign videos (that I’ve seen) is that their aim isn’t to reinterpret a character. It is to fix them, which they cannot do. LavenderTowne’s video is a good base idea (redesign characters based on people’s criticism to see if it works) but due to her lack of research her redesigns were flawed in that they lacked important elements for the characters she was “fixing.” My problem is that I don’t think it can help an artist to redesign a character if they don’t even have a base understanding of that character and why they look the way that they do. They usually simplify to aesthetics which leads to their redesigns feeling like entirely new characters, because they have no connection to the original character that they’re based on, because the redesigner unintentionally oversimplified the design based on looks alone and because the redesign doesn’t look bad, people see it as an improvement, even if important elements were taken out.

@Trecherousbeast

Ай бұрын

@@Actualbowlofsoup redesigning characters can be fun and sometimes I don’t mind characters looking drastically different. My problem is redesigners not understanding the character that they’re redesigning, which ends up in the final design looking lackluster in my opinion. For example: let’s say someone wants to redesign the My Little Pony character Rainbow Dash. Rainbow Dash is a blue Pegasus with a wild rainbow tail and mane. Her cutie mark (a symbol that represents both her personality and talents) is a rainbow lightening bolt and represents her speed and reckless behavior. I wouldn’t mind anyone changing her fur color, the fact that she’s a pegasus, or even the look of her cutie mark. It would still be weird if you took out her rainbow mane, but as long as figured how to make the “rainbow” in her name fit somewhere, I wouldn’t mind. My issue is with redesigners taking out important design elements that sort of help build up the character and not understanding why that element was crucial. Redesigning Rainbow Dash’s cutie mark to be more of a heart shape rather than a lightening bolt sounds cute, but the question is are you doing it because it looks cute, or do you think it will help get her personality across? Redesigning characters is more than an aesthetic.

i absolutely agree that lavendertowne didn't deserve the hate, and yes, it is just the show i can explain why hazbin fandom may be so overreactive though: you see, hellaverse is a very old indie project that relied on fan support for years, so people felt too comfortable interacting with vivziepop and the spindlehourse crew, classic parasocial stuff + the power you feel while targeting small studio with accusations / mocking / virtue signaling, not to mention the religious / homophobic outrage from general public, to sum up, there was a MASSIVE backlash to this show which was not deserved AT ALL, like, everyone and their dog jumped on that hate bandwagon when the show aired, it was truly disheartening, cause the show was actually groundbreaking and unique so when you see yet another big creator reiterating same tired old points which are also incorrect it might be frustrating; again, no excuse to people who bullied lawendertowne, you literally doing the same thing you hate other people do towards the show and its creators

@lolaholliday

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the insight! Having looked through some of the drama about the show, yeah a lot of it unfortunately does seem to be very petty and unwarranted (eg. the Mimzy controversy, the general homophobia etc...) which is such a shame. Especially considering it's very cool that an indie project was able to succeed in the first place only to get torn to shreds.

@unlimon6382

Ай бұрын

Yeah, there was even weird criticism before the series was announced. I remember videos and people that complained that THE PILOT didn't make clear the character backstories or how the ins and outs of heaven and hell worked. If you tried to explain something that was not directly said in the pilot people were already questioning how it worked, even if it was not the kind of thing that would be explained in a pilot. When you cited a stream or a comic or whatever they's just complain that they "shouldn't have to watch that to understand it". Which they didn't. Because it was a pilot. Not even the actual show yet. Many would ask things like "where do souls go after they are killed" or "why can't angels be hurt back", all things that are part of the plot and shouldn't just be revealed first. It was just weird. I haven't ever expected for a pilot to just tell me everything about the show. It's supposed to be a sample of how it will be, not a full summary

@g.yad.4758

Ай бұрын

@@unlimon6382 i'd even say that this show is obviously not a fantasy with a deep structured lore but a character driven musical with cartoon physics, so it doesn't need to have that level of worldbuilding

@Sylv_the_Weirdo

Ай бұрын

​@@unlimon6382 yeah. They expect so little to already have so much, and when told about more, they brush it off. As much as they need to chill, so does the fan base. (I am part of the fandom but some of it is wild)

@lonniebird4266

Ай бұрын

^ This. Harrassment is never okay. Period. But, of course the hazbin community would react strongly to something like lavendertowne's video, they are conditioned to see every criticism as unsolicited hate because most of the time the criticism *is* unsolicited hate, and it can be really hard to have a measured response when the thing you love is just getting shit on constantly for no good reason.

Honestly while I think Lavendertowne’s designs were pretty bad and kinda rushed, in the nicest way possible I think the Hazbin Hotel fandom needs to grow a backbone. Not every single criticism or redesign of the Hazbin Hotel characters is made in bad taste or meant to be some personal attack to Vivziepop. Some people just genuinely think the show is flawed and want it to improve. And in Lavendertowne’s case she was not trying to be mean, she just wanted to see if some of the criticisms of Hazbin Hotel’s designs held any weight. As much as I understand that they’re are many people who hate Hazbin Hotel for simply existing Hazbin Hotel fans have got to realize not every person viewing the show from a critical lense is “hating” on the show or doing it in bad taste. Lavendertowne’s video wasn’t good but I think the Hazbin Hotel’s fandom’s reaction to it wasn’t any better. I say this as someone who did enjoy watching the show.

As someone that’s been in the fandom for a while and has disdain for it, the best way I can describe it is everyone in the fandom is like wolves with rabies 💀. One mild criticism or someone doesn’t know the lore or someone doing a redesign the fandom doesn’t like, they get torn apart. “It’s just a show, it isn’t that deep,” EXACTLY. It’s literally just a show 😭. I agree the designs blend in too much… but I don’t trust the fandoms judgement on these things because they just hate any criticism of the show. I see reviewers made just a tiny critique and then people in the comments will write paragraphs on how they’re wrong 😭. I feel bad for the new people in the fandom, bc they’re just expected to know everything, and if they don’t, everyone hates them. It creates a really unsafe environment for newcomers

@Lif3_G0es_0n

Ай бұрын

I'm glad I joined the fandom in 2020... I was 9 and they were feral to newcomers.. there are way worse now I'm glad I'm not new these days 😭😭😭

@sunkenobi1501

Ай бұрын

Criticisms is only bad when it's in bad faith act like your opinion is fact and get defensive when people tell you the flaws in your own critiques. Yes nothing is perfect but if you're not enjoying the show why bother hate watching? Yes nothing is above criticism but that also apply to the reviewers.

@najpotenicewolf934

Ай бұрын

Likely, because it's fresh at the moment (at least for the actual show.). Big fandoms unfortunately are often rabid in the prime of their activity. They usually calm down and chill out after some time, when most problematic members get bored and hop onto the new big thing. It was like that with MLP, Undertale and likely many others I wasn't a part of.

@Raven_102

Ай бұрын

@@najpotenicewolf934 it’s really one of the few fandoms that’s always been bad. Even before it came out, the fandom was doxxing people for not liking it and Viv would vaguely criticize anyone that made a video criticizing her shows, which the fandom would go harass them for. There’s always been constant fights and drama every other week. Yes, it’s definitely worse now, but it’s always been a really horrible fandom to be in. Tbh i tend to suggest people to just watch the slow and not even bother with the fandom. Bc even when it’s “Chill” It’s still a really bad fandom. People get so nostalgic and attached to the characters, that if you say anything bad about them, everyone’s on you for it. Even if it’s a mild criticism. There are good parts. But i just feel like the bad outweigh the good in the end. And Viv herself feels too immature to be running them since she’s always had a habit of being butt hurt at criticism (including constructive criticism)

@najpotenicewolf934

Ай бұрын

@@Raven_102 Tbh. I don't really interact with the fandom itself that much, aside from a few cool people I get to know outside of fandom context. I would say that's probably the best way to go about it. Keep the interaction with majority of the fandom passive (though I guess it may be harder thing to do if you're somewhat popular content creator. It's easy to get unnoticed when no one recognises you.). Find your own corner of the fandom you find to be relatively good at stick to it.

I feel like it relates to the narrative flaw of Hazbin, coming from someone who has experience in creative writing and made character designs for those stories. An average viewer won't know why a visual aspect is important because the show itself doesn't explain why it is important and depends on tweet threads and Livestreams outside the show to explain, especially aspects that may seem random at first glance. If a character design aspect is very important to that character, it's probably best to show why that design aspect is important within the movie, show, comic, etc then to expect people to look for tweet threads or posts explaining that aspect.

@nyancreeperpony

Ай бұрын

Yeah....even as a fan of the show I think this is Hazbin's fatal flaw. Because the main pilot was created on the internet, and because it took a long time to get greenlit, various supplementary material was released to tide fans over until the show actually dropped. This included Tweet Threads comfirming lore, Livestream events, prequal comics, noncanonized music videos, and even a whole ass different animated series (Helluva Boss). Now to a person who has been following Hazbin Hotel since the beginning (like me) this is not new, but to someone who is a casual fan or a new fan, or hell even someone who is going into the show completely blind,not knowing if they like it or not, this can easily get confusing. This is why, (again as someone who loves the show with a passion, seriously I am fighting myself to keep from infodumping), I was kinda disappointed that they didn't redo the pilot in the new show's format, as not only would it help smooth out the cracks the original pilot had (the overreliance of wacky sound effects and pacing for the most part) but so it can introduce new people going into the show in a way that still feels familiar to the online pilot.

@dante_0962

Ай бұрын

It’s like how linkara mentions you don’t need expanding material to explain something in the main series.

@anokartist2352

Ай бұрын

Please don't forget that the show is still very early in story (hopefully, there is always a chance it gets cancelled) I wouldn't say it "depends on tweets and live streams" as much as "it's too early in the show to see the external information we already know reflected in the show" which is still a problem but not a flaw with the show itself. Including the pilot we only have nine full episodes of the show, all of which being no longer than 30 minutes. I'd say that's more of a problem with the industry because 20 episode shows are becoming increasingly more rare as time goes on before that. I can see why it might be frustrating to have to watch external videos for more lore on each character but considering how packed the series already is I think it's important they don't try to shove every last bit of backstory in the series and let it flow as naturally as it can with it's short seasons.

@sunkenobi1501

Ай бұрын

⁠@@anokartist2352 Yeah we shouldn't jump the gun on this one. Besides even if you explain everything it'll be A) lose the mystery to it and B) it'll be a exposition dump(in a bad way).

@helenanilsson5666

Ай бұрын

@@sunkenobi1501 Yeah, sometimes there's a knee-jerk reaction in fans that they must know everything instantly, but if the show actually took us by the hand and just spoon-fed us everything like it's toddler's picture book... it would just suck. A lot of people grumble about fans who obsess over Word of God details that aren't revealed in the show yet (and that's fair), but there's no reason to think that those details won't be incorporated into the show eventually. It'll get there, it's just the fans being impatient.

never in a million years would I think lavender towns videos would get hate, she was so respectful when I watched it, I suppose I just didn't look at the comments so I didn't notice

@jlhn

Ай бұрын

Oh, she has always gotten hate, Ironically she get's hate for almost the same reason Viv gets hate. People call lavendertowne's art style ugly and devianart-ish and say that she can't take any amount of criticism. And mind you, people have been saying that long before Hazbin Hotel was even a thing

@irondragonmaiden

Ай бұрын

Lavender Towne was the straw that broke the camel's back

I feel like there is a gatekeeper problem here- like u can’t redesign any character because it’s taken as a personal attack- but you guys know some people do redesign as art practice right or just for fun?

@theturkats1362

Ай бұрын

Facts 😭 like nobody didn’t hurt vivzie in this process? 💀

@kawaiiemolga

Ай бұрын

The thing is that big part of the Hazbin Hotel redesigns are from haters claiming their designs are "much better" than the show's. Of course not all, and some are really great, but there's a difference when someone is doing it for fun

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

Yes!!!

@helenanilsson5666

Ай бұрын

I'm not familiar with LavenderTowne or their specific redesigns, but when redesigns blew up in the algorithm I came across so many that were just "the thing you gullible idiots love SUCKS here's how I think it should look!" followed by some shitty art that never would been half as popular as the show they're trash talking during the redesign. I'm guessing Lavender was just the straw that broke the camel's back after a steady supply of trash talking redesigners set the stage.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

@@helenanilsson5666 Redesigns are usually not that. I can assure you that there are so many KZread who make redesigns and validly criticize a media just because they like to talk about it. Lavendertowne, Emmaartly, so on. Most of the redesign media I've consumed is just that, but it's a little screwed for some people considering the controversial ones are always the loudest.

Lavendertowne was at least trying to be polite, most of the redesigns I’ve seen come from a place of spite, which clearly wasn’t the case here

The main problem with lavender’s design was her lack of research and I mainly thought that she would watch the show to mainly understand what parts to implement in her new design or at least look at a wiki page or 2 to Atleast attempt to help her redesign (since that’s what most redesigners do) therefore making her designs look rushed and bad as some says. And I understand her points but do more research or look at their info before hand to avoid whatever it was she was struggling with

@bonkywonk

Ай бұрын

why do the consequences of not doing enough research on FICTIONAL characters be endless amount of hate? ppl take these things way too seriously…its ridiculous.

@Kyarchuu_draws

27 күн бұрын

It's the show's fault, not hers for not being able to tell what creatures the characters are. I watched Hazbin Hotel and could not tell that Alastor was a deer. His ears are too big and blend into his hair and his antlers are so small I didn't see them. Angeldust is supposed to be a spider but his extra eyes are super tiny and he doesn't even have enough legs to be a spider. If what animals the characters are is so important, why didn't they make these animal features more noticeable? If a show needs tweets to make sense then it's a show flaw.

My ADHD and Autistic butt did pretty good at tracking the visuals of the characters, even without my glasses and the video playing P-I-P in the corner of my phone screen. I think they're fine as is. 😅😅😅

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

Lavendertowne has studied character design and setting, I'd trust her word if she says something might not be ideal.

@raelogan

Ай бұрын

@@anunwantedsoul3672 Ah, fair point. I do enjoy listening to her other videos, tbh. I try not to over design my stuff and stick to a simple color pallet. But I kinda like the strong 2000s-2010s edgy teenager energy this series is giving in character design. It reminds me of the sharply outlined artwork of my peers and how we all really clearly were having a Hot Topic phase. Maybe breaking the mold is good sometimes...

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

@@raelogan I agree! I love the style of the show. It's just some things that can be improved upon.I don't think that necessarily means that the show's style is awful. It just means we're able to acknowledge the flaws but still appreciate it for what it is

@eddie-roo

Ай бұрын

Eh, just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it is really ideal. There was this time where the internet was buffering so the quality went down a little bit, and god, it was so hard to follow what was happening, and the screen wasn’t even that blurry.

@raelogan

Ай бұрын

@@eddie-roo Yeah, but bad internet connection isn't really the fault of the show, it's a bit like complaining that Mononoke Hime looked like absolute garbage because you chose to watch it on an early generation iPod with video support. 😅 I'm saying this as a newcomer to the series, who is also 33 years old and grew up in the era of Hot Topic, TNBC, and Invader Zim. I honestly like that the art style harkens back to that style instead to streamlining to soft curves and muted colors. It's nice to break the mold sometimes. It's about time we got another Evangelion or Madoka to shake up the formula... The characters have a nice drop shadow effect, too. Also, the examples people keep using are jpeg images, that file extension is notorious for turning your clarity of an image into junk. That's why you never save art under that format, and any screenshots are going to be "optimized" to the smallest possible byte usage. 👀

Ngl, Meppity's Hazbin videos are what made me unfollow her. I especially didn't like how she said her first Hazbin vid was meant to trigger the fandom to pay her rent, that just made her video feel even less disingenuous to me, hence why I never follow her. I don't have respect for rage-bait content at all, I tend to find it lazy, reposts are more respectable to me than rage-baiting fans to pay your rent. There are numerous, creative avenues to take when making content ESPECIALLY art content. Lavender towne was much less venomous with her vid when it came to crit on the show, it was rather tame compared to Meppity and Pkrussel. Lavender was probably experiencing burnout which does happen, we can't always churn out killer pieces. We all have thousand of bad drawings inside us that we have to get out our system once in awhile. And I do get that not everyone is gonna have extensive knowledge on the lore of Hazbin as a lot of it was expanded in Helluva Boss which I don't think she claimed to have watched and so I think she just went into Hazbin and went off what she knew. Which I don't blame her, as much as I love Hazbin, it's not the most easy show to start off for newcomers as it relies heavily on the fans to have prior context. Again, love the show but I can see how casual or new viewers can miss out on context and details of the characters and setting.

@lucklei4665

Ай бұрын

This, fuck to all clickbaits, i don't care for the reason, clickbaiting is just trash.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

I agree!!! Like the details about Alastor being based off a dear, Charlie a goat, Angel a spider. Heck, even some fans don't even realize the "freckles" on Angel's face are actually eyes. The show does require a lot of knowledge that's not explicitly stated to be fully understood, and I absolutely love that you acknowledged the fact that our artists can't always provide the holy grail of artwork. She probably took the opportunity to make a video about Hazbin because it was popular, and she would be a fool to miss out on this massive insurgence of guaranteed revenue. Props for her for handling the situation really well.

@tisvana18

Ай бұрын

I haven’t consumed any of the supplementary material and I have no problems following the show. I can see the show got 8 episodes, less than one third of what cartoons used to get for a season, and I assume that if something isn’t explained in a design but is notable, it will eventually be explained at some point.

Even though her designs weren't the best designs that she's ever created, there was no reason for the hate against her. Valid criticism is okay but people should be respectful when criticizing others. Tbh it feels like the designs lavendertowne made were more so concepts for a design but idk.

Lavendertowne did nothing wrong. She just made a rushed video that turned out to be disrespectful. All she did was make a dumb mistake. Oh, and also using fanart wasn’t good either. Not like she killed a puppy or anything, people are just overreacting.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

She did make some mistakes, and we shouldn't deny that, but the hate is uncalled for when they were just honest mistakes that somehow have people who don't even know her or haven't watched the video making unfair assumptions about her

@michellemeinhold8515

Ай бұрын

​@@anunwantedsoul3672agree, people forget that others are human beings that make mistakes

man I just didn't like how all the red made everything blend in together. Doesn't help that I'm writing a story where color plays a part in character design.

@Username-iz9wp

Ай бұрын

That's fine. It's OK to criticize the show constructively. Some people just want to trash on the show and pridefully act like their art Is better than Vivziepop's.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

Haley even accounted for this in the video, suggesting alternative ways to help a character stand out from the background and also keep the color scheme the same

@tsukki9345

Ай бұрын

There is a reason why everything is so red since the pride ring is red, you can see the rings of hell and the colours in Lucifers room when hes on the phone with charlie and see it showcased in helluva boss when they go to other rings. It does make it difficult on the eyes and probably could have been done better but I just wanted to point out that it does have a purpose

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

@@tsukki9345 I suppose. My thing is that they showcased us so many characters, especially sinners, without red in their color scheme. If they had kept everyone abundantly red then I would've been less nitpick but it's shown that sinners can have designs that don't revolve around red, I feel like Baxter would've mediated this problem so much by just being there.

@supergertrude61

Ай бұрын

@@tsukki9345 Okay so I think Pride ring is red Wrath is orange Gluttony is yellow Greed is green Lust is blue Envy is purple Sloth is pink Think that’s what they are?

I honestly think that they look perfectly fine already, I mean... It is hell and going off the color scheme that is typically associated with it is very dark colors. I don't see what's so wrong, and the redesigns. I haven't watched any, but people complain that they don't like the original design, and they hate the redesigns more? I don't understand what they want?? They hate the originals yet they also hate the redesigns because it's no longer the exact same character

@Malin0vkka

Ай бұрын

The colours in their designs does communicate their character and setting pretty well, yeah; the main issue, though, is that it blends a little too well with the setting because everything and everyone us are white, red and black

@Malin0vkka

Ай бұрын

It can be genuinely hard to see and identify what's happening on screen for some people, which is why the complaints about this have risen

@eddie-roo

Ай бұрын

@@Malin0vkkawhen you’re doing an art piece you want to keep things readable. It is important for you to be able what’s in the foreground and background, what is alive, what character is which, where one character ends and another begins, where the action is moving towards, where your eyes are supposed to focus. If everything has the same color, the same lighting, the same saturation, the same amount of detail, the same texture and the same patterns nothing will really stand out. It’s like the characters are wearing camo.

@supergertrude61

Ай бұрын

And the different rings have different colors Like pride ring is red Wrath is orange Gluttony is yellow Greed is green Lust is blue Envy is purple Sloth is pink Think that’s what they are?

@mirai5451

Ай бұрын

@@Malin0vkka what will fix this is if the background is a bit darker , like in the pilot it makes the characters pop more

Bro people attack lavenderTowne like shea killed their parents, like we get it the charavyer redesigns werent thay great (not you, just twitter in general, twt tends to love to harrass innocent people)

I remember thinking lavenders video and thinking her redesigns were fine. 💀 I think people have already seen the show and have fallen so deep into their characters that they’ve kinda just gotten mellow to them, despite them not following certain art principles. But like- lavenders redesigns for the most part are really solid. Sure, they could use a bit of shifting in shape language to match their personalities, but that’s not too big of a deal imo. It should also be noted that most of the HH fandom is (for the most part, not everyone), a bunch of 13-15 y/o girls, so they are going to be immature when someone critiques vivzies designs, as vivzie is someone these teens probably look up to.

So as someone who mostly watched this happen from the backseats, the reason why it escalated this much is the build up. Character redesigns are meant to be fun practice, at least, that's how I had looked at them. I like doing them myself, and I do them out of love and admiration for the source material. When the trend of the Hazbin Redesigns started going viral, the vitriol behind them became incredibly obvious. I love myself a good redesign, but a lot of the people who started doing them for HH, were doing it out of really malicious reasons. There was a very tangible air of "I can do so much better" and "I am fixing it" (which is basically a cardinal sin among artists) and spite, and often out of hating the show (or Viv) so much that they want to flaunt how much the original designs "suck" with the redesigns. Because of this gaining views and boosts from the algorhytm, more and more of the redesigns started popping up because they got clicks. Now it became popular to do them even if you never watched the show, now it was flooded with both "I can do so much better" and "never watched the material" combined, which again gives off real negative vibes. At some point, so many were popping up, I blocked the "redesign" tag all together, because it just became so negative. I'm sure a lot of other fans felt that way. And it all culminated with Lavandertown redesigns. If the build up to this wasn't getting so much wind, the harsh backlash to her redesigns wouldn't have been this extreme. It's like a domino effect, and it broke on Lavandertown unfortunately, thanks to the bigger audience she had built.

Whenever i here someone use the *its hell* argument for the colors feel a little rage inside cause Vox is mostly blue. Side characters like Camilla and Zesitial arent mostly red. Lucifer himself is white.So why does it the main cast gotta be the same shades of red.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

MY POINT!!! Like even the background characters in the series and pilots are more diverse in colors (the main designs were also a little more balanced in the pilot as well, but I digress.) So why'd they have to use the exact same red. At least make the values a little interesting by changing up the shade of red idk

@AlluKat

Ай бұрын

Arguably vaggie, Angel, Husk and Pentious break this because Angel is mainly pinks than a true red and pentious is black and yellow. Husk is mostly black and white with red accents. Vaggies red is limited to her bow, shirt and X over her eye. (Nifty I have no explanation for) I think the reliance on red for Alastor is a storytelling thing and I’d argue the same for Charlie. Charlie and Alastor both embrace hell and are interesting foils. They’re both “happy/positive” (Charlie genuinely;Alastor manipulatively) Charlie isn’t ashamed of her home, she wants to make it better so she doesn’t hide it. Her red is hells red. (It’s also her dad’s old suit when he probably also tried to redeem sinners) You see this with Lucifer’s design. He has a lot of white as a rejection of hell and possibly a longing for “home” (and regret). Now look at Alastor, who arguably looks more like a demon than other sinners. Alastor has embraced hell for what he thinks it is: violence, chaos and power. Another detail on Alastor is it looks like he has an upside down cross on his shirt, which is a nod to satan/possibly the antichrist. Mythologically speaking, the antichrist is supposed to bring on the end of the world, and I think Alastor is set up to bring on the downfall of hell or Charlie’s plans.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

@@AlluKat There are still elements in their designs that mesh with the others because of the lack of shifts in values. Like Vaggie's shirt would blend into Angel's gloves, and husks wings, Charlie and Alastors clothes, Nifty's hair, etc. The problem is not the mouth of red. It's the shade of colors, specifically the red. It's a basic art concept that doesn't have to be followed, but it really does help. Sir Pentious is a good exception though but his design is also really close to the pilot, where I'd say they did a better job with the colors (They were able to get away with it because the background was less saturated.)

I thought Lavendertowne was pretty respectful and responsible, she made those mistakes not knowing some lore, yes that's a bit iffy, but what she was experimenting with was the common complaints other people had about them not her. I find it baffling how it's wrong to experiment with the colors of a background, as far as we're concerned, *(no disrespect to anyone a part of the religions involving god)* nobody has actually seen hell so it's not unforgivable to imagine it other than red. The fanart one is also a mistake and no doubt the artist should receive a conversation clearing up the misunderstanding and choose whether or not to accept it. Yes the final art looks a bit rushed compared to her other designs, but it still gets the idea across, maybe she was just tired. Pardon my impoliteness, but I think Vivzie's mentality on any criticism and joke = hate is starting to spread towards her fanbase, no doubt that some people take things too far and attack Vivienne but to isolate and demonize everything that doesn't share the common thought process regarding things Vivzie could do better for Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss is ironically what heaven in the show is seemingly doing, not listening to others who see things from a different angle, ostracizing them from a large group of people, and sending a large mob to kick and beat them down. It seems that every time someone in the fandom has a thought process that goes against Vivienne they are attacked and screamed at. The fandom has you walking on eggshells with very hateful and spiteful people and it is not welcoming to new fans.

@ShinyShilla

Ай бұрын

Most of the lore is outside the show afair

@TheOneThatLurks

Ай бұрын

@@ShinyShilla Yep, old podcasts, old comics, but apparently some stuff was nixxed, but they don't specify what 😅

OWONekko and Loves Art23 have been doing redesigns for helluva boss and hazbin for a while now, and nobody says anything about them for it, why complain now

@TheOneThatLurks

Ай бұрын

I don't know bud I just got here.

@wwandmitski

Ай бұрын

I loveeeee LovesArt23!! She's so good at redesigning!

@Flugel_Pendragon

Ай бұрын

@evsaintuya I guess, I just don't like how [I'm so much better than you] and [i know more about your character than you the creator do] she is about it sometimes. There's a reason Vivzie got as far as she did and treating her work like it was made by some inexperienced kid and her redesigns are what they should have looked like feels disrespectful.

@moonbloom2262

Ай бұрын

i think it may be because people like loves art23 keeps the parts of the characters that make them that character, such as the extra limbs or animal influences while changing things like the style of their clothes and that. things have changed but its still clearly the character. while lavender took away most of their unique characteristics to the point where some people may find it difficult to identify which characters they were supposed to be if it wasn't specifically mentioned. compare lavenders redesigns of angel and Alastor to their original designs and they have almost nothing in common.

@lucid_3938

Ай бұрын

I like both redesigns but I've called Loves Art23 out before for always putting the designs down to push up her own, not subtly either, like full on shouting about how bad the designs are or making fun of them

If you watch Lavendertowne's new Hazbin video, she actually explains in the comments that she hurt her back and was in too much pain to draw properly... and then she got sick before recovering fully, but made the video anyway, which explained why she might have been struggling a little there. People are being insanely rude to her, some people even saying that she's "privileged" and "arrogant" like ??? Arrogant? *How?* I like Hazbin as a show, but the fandom is insane and like- allergic to critisism, plus Lavendertowne was so sweet and respectful in her video, too, even if she was a bit misinformed!

The reason why there's so much controversy is because, when Viv was online back in Tumblr, she would say a lot of edgy jokes and burned bridges with others online that many took issue with. As they say, the internet never forgets nor forgives so they followed the hate bandwagon just because someone who they say did wrong is still preserving despite the drama. These kind of people are insecure when someone they deemed "problematic" is considered successful in their eyes.

I hate the fixing trend with the series, you can dislike vivzie but why should the characters have the same style as every other popular series in the west? and overcomplicated? piss off, never seen anyone complain about how overcomplicated designs are in series from the east like in anime..

I think saying the character designs are overcrowded is not a good enough critique to justify sh!tting on them. Especially considering how hard it is to animate details consistently + how much time, efforts and money it costs so they had to put a lot of thought on whether the designs were necessary or not to keep because no one is going to do all of that supplementary work just for funsizes. Having busy character designs is actually a nice change of pace compared to the blank t-shirts or school uniforms half of the animated characters have. Besides the very restrictive color palette does help reducing that feeling of overcrowdedness, imagine if they were all in different colours?!?! We would all get seizures from looking at it, so it does have positive points and it has an actual purpose too so yeah it's fine for me (the backgrounds could benefit from being a little bit more muted tho). I didn't think it would be this bad but God was I wrong, LavenderTowne's designs are horrendous, I even shocked that she felt comfortable even posting the video with results like this 💀 They look so so so bad and Im sorry but actually Angel is the worst because he looks very very very ugly even as design on its own without taking into account anything that has to do with HH while our Radio demon at least look passable if we forget he's not from HH and all his lore. And Nifty oh Nifty what did she do to you 😭

@vaelia1203

Ай бұрын

Oh and I do agree that there should be more diversity (both shape and skin color, why are the poc characters skin all light-ish gray?!?), what I meant in the beginning is only about people who only critic the overcrowding issue because that's so inconsequential.

I don't think the fandom or the creators are "correct". The fandom needs to chill, and that is from someone in the fandom. But it's still not that great to *fix* something. A lot of people have been resigning solely for hate. As long as it not out of hate, and even if it is, it's not that big of a deal.

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

That's the thing, I don't view it as fixing because she never claimed that it was better than the original. Fixing someone's art is making the art "better" by your standard and claiming yours is superior like that only person Zeefixesart or something. Lavendertowne discussed the criticisms she had respectfully, then applied them to her own interpretations whilst never once stating that hers was objectively better.

@Sylv_the_Weirdo

Ай бұрын

@@anunwantedsoul3672 yeah

I disagree with the people who keep on saying that Lavendertowne didn't do enough research. If a show has characters that look so removed from what they're supposed to be that you have to search for tweets and wiki posts just to confirm what they are then it's the design's fault, not hers. Sonic Characters are colorful animals and there are a lot of them where you can clearly tell what they are just by looking at them. I had no idea Alastor was a deer when I watched the show because his ears blend so much into his hair that I almost thought it was a part of his hairstyle. As for Angel, you have to look really hard at his face to see he has extra eyes and even then he doesn't have enough legs to be a spider. Lavendertowne is not to blame for a lack of information in a show or in the original designs.

I really love the colouring of the show and how sometimes the characters match with the backgrounds especially the red theme of hell it looks gorgeous imo

yeah....you shouldn't fix someone else's character,unless it's just for fun then it's fine,but I've always felt bad for creators of shows that people are fixing characters that's not even theirs,viv worked her butt off on those characters for years,you have 0 right to fix a character that doesn't belong to you,but if your doing a redesign just for fun or wanting to make your own OC of the version you want the character to look like that's also fine,but other wise your being highly disrespectful towards the creators of cartoons or anime

@mirai5451

Ай бұрын

right ? most people who redesign vivs characters aren't doing it for fun , they do it to either get clout out of it or to bully viv and shit on her artstyle , it's rare to see someone doing it because they love the show and they just want to add their own spin for fun while also not shitting on the artstyle

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

She didn't fix the character. She also said it herself that it was just a study test and not meant to be a fixing video. All she did was criticize the character designs and then apply the criticism to her drawings. She didn't claim her designs were better

I feel like i often have the opposite opinion of a lot of people but the second i saw the hazbin hotel style i was absolutely amazed, i had never seen shapes in a character like that before, as i grew up with the calarts style, it actually drastically changed my own artwork from a semi-realism anime esc style to a super cartoony style, and i really love that, obviously rhe show has its flaws but i also think it's honestly phenomenal, thats just my opinion though, 💕

People kept talking about "this is lavendertowne’s downfall"…. WHAT DO YOU MEAN DOWNFALL?? She made ONE bad drawing.

I don’t have no idea why people are so upset about this art now I have never seen hazbin hotel before but I have seen some scenes of it but it seems like people take the whole concept so seriously like it’s a someone’s imagination what they think about what they want the characters to look like I think the characters don’t even look the same they look so amazing and detailed I don’t understand why people are so upset about this art work like because he doesn’t have deer horns that means that she’s being like rude like everyone oc looks different they remove something to make them feel good I guess:3

@seashell3403

Ай бұрын

Omg YES THIS EXACTLY

@PotatoNuggetConsumer

Ай бұрын

She just decided to lean more into the Radio theme rather than the deer theme, there is still remnants of the deer theme like the antlers on the collar. But this was just a reimagining.

@IIlovemysissy290

Ай бұрын

@@PotatoNuggetConsumer yeah that’s what she was doing she can just change it up a little bit and I don’t know why people are upset like the horns are gone and there’s nothing wrong with that like she can just change it up a little bit. I find very very wrong for her to basically fix someone’s else’s art

@anunwantedsoul3672

Ай бұрын

She's making a new video to make up for the trouble with the old one, actually. You should check it out sometime!!! She's applying the critisms she got and actually watching the show, though I doubt she's going to get all the information she needs from just that since the shows context is scattered around and who knows what's canon and not anymore. Even so, I think she genuinely meant no harm and just wanted to join in on the hazbin trend while it was still kicking. I think a lot of people have a very screwed view of what fixing art is, cause that is very much not what she did. Heck, she even said in the video that it was not meant to be that

@IIlovemysissy290

Ай бұрын

@@anunwantedsoul3672 yeah rather than just fixing the art what about you just make your own art:]

Part of the drama was also that the title of Lavendertowne's video was titled "Are the Hazbin Hotel haters right?" which could be seen as right off the bat she's calling the show bad just like Hazbin Hotel haters think the show is.

People working on the design? Vivzie worked on it alone for eons and what the others work at was basically a final design. The "redesign" they got (mostly charlie) for the release are minimal at best to ease the work of the animators without removing the excessive decorations (THOSE are what takes most of the time if you want them to folow the character model). Am i missing something?

To my option most of there design ( orginal cast of the show) are not even even "overdesign" there little a simple design if you pay close attention As exsample: Alestor design is just a suit you see back in the days where you often see stripe in the design ( business , mafia mans) often wear them in movie but they are often Darkblue, White, Brown or Gray never red so mabey that why people say it is busy design? If you look at Vox he also have the same look-a- like outfit but his is overall Darkblue with Lightblue lines Niffty design is literly the 20th time where most housewife wear those looks ( and often in show rich girls/woman with a puddle dog with them) something like Frence design Husk only wears a pant with some gloves, strike d a head If I go outside of those group Cherry bomb is literly more of a rock star/ wields 80/90 girl we saw on Disney channel show like Hannah Montana Velvett is a fashion designer so her look will be mix of fashion boss type they have the minimal clother on but a Big part pop out that you keep looking at her If we look at the Hitman like Blizo the clown one often have much diffrent pattern and fabric that chouldbe seen as "overdesign" but that point of a circus performance to stand out. Overall wat I want to say most characters are designed basis on the theme/job or thing they are Angel dust isa Strikker, Husk a Gambler, Charlie look like a Potter/guest taker, sir snake look like a soldier on ship ( idk how spell it in eng). Ect There design show what they are and there job pretty much is other are design basis on diffrent things but you get what imea

i believe people getting upset at artists recreating the characters of a DEEPLY flawed show is pretty telling

There are multiple reasons fans are upset imo. 1st, hazbin is an independent project that was picked up by Amazon. So criticizing it means criticizing VivzyPop's art, which is not a good look in any circumstance. People can like it or hate it, but saying things like "fix" or "make it better" about anyone's art will make the one making that statement look very narcissistic 2nd, I get the fact that it has to come up quick to be relevant, but when dealing with a massive fan base, you have to do the research or you will recive backlash for it. That's just how it is 3rd, even when it comes to characters owned by big games/shows/animation ect, where is more acceptable to criticize a design, one could attempt to make it better, usually by incorporating details that make up the personality and backstory of the character into it's visual design. And to do that, you need to know their backstories. So yeah, not doing research but at the same time claiming that they can do a better job then the creator of any character is worthy of backlash

I kinda like the idea of Alastor being sepia-tone, it goes along well with his old radio motif and makes him stand out, but a recolor is all it should be imo. Like, take away the sharp teeth and Lavendertowne's Alastor just looks like...a guy. (I love her other art videos, though!)

@helenanilsson5666

Ай бұрын

Idk, sepia is extremely boring to look at. I'm trying to imagine a sepia Alastor walking around the HH settings and... frankly, he'd look like shit, in the most unfortunate literal sense. Sure he'd stand out from the background - but in a bad way. It makes me think of Corpse Bride, where the living are all dull and gray and the dead are very saturated, so that it's really obvious how out of place the still living Victor is among the dead. Alastor *should not* stand out that way in hell, that's his turf. Of course he should blend in with the background, the man is a walking jump scare.

honestly it's mostly just vivziepop haters that are causing drama. I've noticed a LOT of vivs haters didn't even watch the show, but rather just read a thread about how "disgusting and evil" she is, so without any actual research they believed it and think the fans of her shows are disgusting and evil. And its SUCH a frustrating topic because this is a show that was built by us fans who have been waiting patiently for this show to arrive. We've seen a lot of petty and rude complaints thrown at this show, that now, whenever a new controversy arrives it just kind of feels necessary to jump in and defend it. But when you do defend it, (esp on twitter) people will call you either a Vivziepop meat rider or a terrible person. It's such a tiring discussion. Other cartoons have problems that are pointed out in hazbin, and yet they will ALWAYS be treated as saints in comparison. The reason they keep hating on it seems to me like they're just trying to appear as a morally better person. But hello? Bullying others for being a fan of a show, harassing the staff and/or spreading fake rumors does NOT make you a morally better person!! Go outside and touch grass!!

I think why alot of hazbin hotel fans took it negatively is because before her videos alot of people were redesign it , some where fans who were doing it for fun while others were using the HH popularity for clout and redesigning the characters with malice whether it was against the creator or the show itself , and when you see her title you'd think she's siding with the haters and I guess that what made the fans defensive , since we are mostly the target of hate online for just enjoying the show , I'm not excusing the bullying that happened by fans but not everyone was that negative some where respectfully giving criticism for lavndertowne's video also people are hating on vivzie's artstyle but I think it's beautiful and fits her story , maybe her designs are not the best compared to her other shows and old works, but these designs fits her artstyle and she make them work even if they don't make much sense , her artstyle is unique and flexible , I just don't get why people hate on her artistic skills alot , I thought that one of the things that the art community hates the most ? but I guess that no longer applies because everyone hate viv now ( for things she did years ago when she was young , and had apologized for mind you )

6:27 it's not because it's hell, it's because it's the ring that they're in, there's 7 rings if I remember correctly? and each ring has their own colour so we can know from just a screenshot where we are in hell. Changing it to purple or green then makes no sense cause then you change the location.

@canislunaticus

Ай бұрын

And that's also why a lot of the characters in hazbin hotel are red as well, if we go to the sister series Helluva boss where the characters travel across the rings of hell you get to see characters of all kinds of colours. But usually the character's colour tend to match their ring of origin.

4:09 all Hazbin lore comes outside the show. It is not canon if it is not shown in the show, meaning everything is fair game People come here saying tweets and tumblr post are part of the writing

The thing is the color purple would make sense for a different motif cause pride biblically speaking is represented by the color purple, not red. Red represents wrath, which is not where the show takes place. It takes place in the pride ring.

Thank you for taking a polite and honest look at it the situation! I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Research is very important. But when we're talking about details like animal features - if you have to dig so much outside of the show to learn anything about them, I think the character desings really failed to convey them.

Personally I never cared much for the show itself and there's plenty stuff to be criticized about the whole thing, but I'll never get behind the art style criticism, I think it's just plain mean for no reason. If Vivziepop has something going on for herself, it's a strong and recognizable style, which I think it's a plus in the world of animation, even if it's true that there's no obvious body type diversity, characters don't 'look the same' nor are they 'ugly', they're cartoony and exaggerated and oversaturated, which I think it's exactly what is intended. Artistically, Hazbin Hotel stands out a lot, and whether people like it or not, beauty is subjective and there's a solid chunk of people who do like the artstyle, so it's pretty hypocritical of some artists to claim theyr'e 'fixing' characters just to impose their personal aesthetic tastes on them.

An important thing to note about why everyone is upset about Alastor in particular is that she didn't only remove the deer symbolism, she, more importantly, white-washed him. When Alastor was human, he was not white, he was Creole, and she drew him in an essentially human form as a white guy. That is another thing you have to find out about outside of the show, but it is a lot more important to point out than the deer thing and a lot more worthy of frustration, it's pretty understandable why white-washing the character would make some people very upset, even if his race isn't obvious in the show itself.

It’s better to call it “draw in your style” instead of “fixing it or talking about how ppl think it’s bad design” it just kinda disrespects the original creator and mostly just make ppl think you are overconfident about your own art

I think hazbins style is so controlversal because it resembles Ocs, wild tumbler, devianart, styles, and i mean that in a good way! yeah, i honestly think that Hazbins unconventional, not always logical but massivly colorful and wild art IS why its so popular! Biut its also why everyone EVERYONE has a dif opinion on it, because this style was designed not to be universal and instead specificlly attract lovers of odd and edgy art. No ones oc will look the same or appeal the same way to the same person. (Though *sometimes* that can be a problem, like, you mention Alastor, I thought he was a fox the first time i saw him cause of the pointy ears, red color, and sharp teeth. When they have a specific animal or design it can be hard to convey). Its like a Picasso painting, EVERYONE will look at it and get something dif from. But it can also overwhelm the viewer who doesnt know or understand what they are looking at, sometimes leaving them to accidently combined the good and bad and generalize the style overall as clunky or messy. I mostly dissagree with that, but i get where they are coming from for sure,

Sorry to say, but struggling on the platform does not excuse those actions whatsoever when it comes to Meppity. There’s a difference between not wanting to miss the hype, and not wanting to miss the hate train.

for me, I’d say redesigning a character is ok! however, claiming you are ‘fixing’ them is not it’s ok to imagine certain characters in your/different art styles!

i didnt realize it was a widley agreed upon thing, i came across the meppity video a while ago and commented, bringing up their condescending tone, they just seemed so rude and disrespectful in my opinion (the newer video was actually the one i commented on, i think that specific creator just seems mean from their careless monotone voice)

0:00 I can’t believe this was uploaded 2 days ago cuz I remember people fixing the designs around time of the shows announcement

Thing is for a number of the elements, like the colors, are the way they are based on the ring the characters are in. You dont need to have backstage info to know this, you kind just either have to watch the show or at most watch Helluva Boss. Its pretty evident. Also the thing with characters having visual motifs is OBVIOUS, all she had to do was the BASIC amount of searching. She could have even used the wiki Also I think you are being disingenuous, people arent simply upset cause people have criticisms and try to change them it is MOSTLY because of the COMMENTS and misinformation that those people spread BECAUSE of their feelings about the designs, show, or Viv. You dont have to do extensive research to not have this happen. But I think this happening ALOT has fans more primed, and Lavender spreading misinfo and not doing the bare minimum only made things WAY worse than they would have been.

Honestly, if Lavender just used the word “Redesigning” over “Fixing” this entire controversy wouldn’t exist. It’s all in the wording I’m getting too old for this nonsense

I dont think she meant harm, but Yeah it just feels really disrespectful, like the art is an integral part of the show and I kind of appreciate that they didn't tone them down to make them more palatable. I work in animation and if I was in the design team for something like this and saw a viral trend of people saying they're shitty and need "fixing," I'd feel awful. Most of the time they don't really do what they're trying to anyway and take away choices made, like making vaggie buff and masc because "she's a warrior" removing that it's one of the few fem/fek relationships in popular media right now and it was clearly an intentional choice

What is insane is that she was bullied into deleting her video and apologizing for not catering to the people that wouldn't like anything she could've done. In a normal world, there would be some feedback with explanations of the characters, and she would make a follow-up video, to develop on her concepts more. Like character designers do! You can reiterate the same character 40 times before landing on the best design, but i guess people want it best now, in the moment. Tbh, it is just another reason to never interact with any fandom nowadays

where is Lavender Towne's video of her redrawing hazbin hotel characters, I normally watch all of her videos but I haven't watched this one and I couldn't find it, did she take it down???

@lolaholliday

Ай бұрын

She's taken the video I spoke about here down, yes. But she did promise to at some point remake the video with better research

A lot of the criticism against the are style is basically people not liking it for example 1- the characters look the same A-no if anything they don’t look alike at all this argument was first brought up from my experience with Lucifer resembling Alaster they kept saying they’re designer similar, which is lazy writing or they’re actually the same person luci debut, and episode five while Alaster was in the pilot you see a lot of the issue came from their design being similar is because Lucifer was only a photo in the pilot if you really look at it with their official release, both characters are very different with very different aesthetics , The only similarity is the fashion sense which is also just like picking apples and oranges, so anyone who uses the idea that they’re not unique enough misses the point. 2-the characters are too busy A- and? Like what is the point of it being too busy the character design is strong because of its busy like nature it makes the character more unique a lot of people harp on anime for using the same body foundation, but when someone doesn’t follow that rule, they immediately get angry the business of a character give them style and substance spotting. All the details is something fun and interesting I want a person to actually bring me characters they like and say that they are playing and simple. There is no way you will be interested in a character who is plain and simple looking 3- the characters blend into the background A-no they Don’t and when they do it is intentional this is true for the pilot, but not the show and usually when they do, it’s intentional like when the hotel characters blend into the background of the hotel you must really have bad eyesight if you can’t distinguish between the characters and the background( this argument doesn’t work if you’re actually colorblind I’m like really sorry a person whose color blind watching has hotel would be like an acid trip)

As someone who only watched the pilot and show, the fact that I have to go and make my research on twitter and tumblr or livestreams and shit to know more essential lore about the show is so annoying. Like no, I’m a causal viewer I don’t want to do all that. Why can’t we get that in show? And why r we expected to do that?

Didn't Vivziepop go to art school? On the topic, I find it very disrespectful to claim that a person's artistic vision needs to be "fixed."

I remember when i was 16 she had a bunch of drama around similar videos as she used to frame it as “i made bad thing good.” Her thumbnails don’t help imo, i know it’s just clickbait to grab your attention but i can see alot of people not looking much further. Also her video was so poorly written and researched like using fan art that she thought was official, not understanding the animal based designs. Hazbin fans can be extremely explosive and rude, they do it to cosplayers following them around cons shouting things at them depending on what character they’re dressed up as. Hazbin being an internet indie project means the fan base has been around for years, newer fans and older fans are very passionate and proud of hazbin so they tend to get very defensive about it. Which i understand but most of the time the hate/backlash is directed at the wrong people.

finally some video on this topic that I agree with. I really agree that quality is better than quantity. If you want to make a video about something, I think the least that should be done is research. because if you don't research, besides the content being shallow, it seems like the person is also being completely fake, doesn't knowing anything about the subject and wants to take advantage of the hype. I also think thumbs and clickbait titles are wrong, just be truthful and respectful man I recognize that there is a part of the fandom that is very defensive, and a large part is because there is a fair amount of people who don't like the show and make rewrites and redesigns with the arrogant, toxic and snobbish mentality that thinks it's better (like.. if If you don't like something so much, wouldn't it be better and healthier for you to focus on what you like?). I like doing redesigns/re-imagined versions of any media I like, but I had to block hazbin's redesigns tag because it's very disrespectful and unethical and unprofessional. like every old and big fandom, there are some mini fandoms within the fandom and they are all toxic: tere's the part I just said and there's the part that doesn't accept and can't respect any contrary opinion about the lavandertown video, it was much more respectful than the other one, but I still think I should have done more research, because like... how are you going to practice and study something if you haven't even done decent research? For me, the worst thing of all was giving Alastor a new microphone, in the first 10 minutes of the show it was already shown that he doesn't like newer technology. It doesn't make much sense to want to criticize something if you don't know that much what you're talking about I tried watching videos on this subject and I saw someone saying that people were being perfectionists with lavandertown and like... why can you constructively criticize hazbin and not criticize them too? it doesn't make sense, very hypocritical One thing that I think is important to point out (not saying that you think this, you were very respectful, but I think it's cool to also point out as a debate) is that it's kind of wrong to generalize the entire fanbase, we are not an entity or a cult lol. There are people who don't know what it means to criticize someone in a constructive way and start bullying, but there are also many people who dont agree with this and can talk about the subject in a respectful way. This varies from person to person, and toxic people exist everywhere, unfortunately I can understand the criticisms about the color palettes, I respect this opinion but I personally don't agree. I think it matches the environment (for example, the other hell rings have other colors) and ended up becoming something striking about this hazbin. Another thing I also think is important to say is that many of the criticisms apply to any animation, like, more body diversity? I would love to, but it's a problem with all media in general (and many of the people who complained about it couldn't even handle Lucifer not being traditionally tall, like??), and other criticisms like "pointy teeth" are just part of the artstyle and they are demons, it would be completely out of place for the characters to have normal human teeth oof my comment ended up being longer than I wanted xD also sorry if there were any writing errors, I'm using Google translate. Great video!

I love lavendertowne but I can’t lie the redesign looks hideous

I think Lavendertown should have watched the show first and done a little bit of research but you pointed out a problem Hazbin Hotel has you have to do research to even understand the show truly. I really love Hazbin Hotel but it has so much information that's not shown in show (yet or possibly never) to even understand like how nifty is supposed to be a bug or have you pointed out how Alastor is supposed to be a deer to show that he's a cannibal like a wendigo (in that one episode where he eats a raw deer is also a reference to how he's a cannibal) the fact that you evn have to do background research isn't good

I think the important lesson here is just do more research on the subject and don’t go straight into it. Another lesson is that don’t go on hating these artists because the lack of the character designs and don’t bully them. When the lavendertowne situation became big, people on twitter were finding more ways just to hate her which is mess up and really pathetic. Like how shallow of a person can you get? I do have to admit, I have noticed Lavendertowne’s art style is getting a bit too dull as it could possibly be from burnout. She’s has done an amazing job with her redesigns characters series as she did actually put her time and work into researching the characters. I didn’t like the redesigns of the hazbin hotel too and she knows it wasn’t her best work. But tbh, hazbin hotel has so many flaws, the writing and the characters design. Great concept but bad execution. There was this one comment that I saw made a good point about of how the hazbin hotel is so dependent on the livestreams, tweets threads, posts just to explain the whole lore. I mean from an average viewer, how the hell are they supposed to know these little details. Like ‘angel dust has siblings’, ‘Alastor is mixed-race Creole’ ‘husk dies in the 1970s’. This is just like a lazy way of explaining.

Redesigns are fine as long as you do research... that's part of character doing character designing... I do like HH designs, but as for colours it's hard to watch when I think about Red/Green blindness ... in art classes, I would be talked to death about making sure EVERYONE can see what you create ... so watching the show ... my insides screaming

Honestly, I feel like a lot of Adult Shows would generally have fan bases with large parts of it being filled with teens and maybe older children. This doesn't just apply to HH or HB but almost every Adult Show fanbase in existence and that's something that can't well be controlled. It's most likely that a majority of those who were harassing her were just teenagers or children being overprotective of any criticism of their favourite show. While I did think the designs were kinda ugly, I didn't really bother harassing her at all.

I like crowded designs most of the time

Although I don't mind the shows designs, I do enjoy looking at redesigns. However, I feel like the only person who actually tries to redesign the characters according to what they're trying to portray in the show and what's told in their backstory is Loves Art23. Most other people it feels like they just slap on stuff they personally prefer and turn the characters into their own OCs instead

I'm more into settle redesigns of the characters that doesn't change the looks of them drastically. I've seen great redesigns of the characters that do resemble what the characters are about and they look great to look at. What I don't like about redesigns is how it could make the character look different and unrecognizable. The people mentioned in the video don't deserve the hate they get when they are just making their own redesigns of the characters from Hazbin, but criticism is still welcomed to bring up. When I look at Lavendartown's redesigns, they just look so unrecognizable and dull. No shame and hate, but sometimes you need to take your time while redesigning a character even when something is popular.

9:42 it’s not really that it’s just a show. i think it’s more the fact that they phrase it badly by saying that it’s bad, so to someone who would like the show it would seem more like the show and the characters they like are being attacked instead of criticised so they get defensive to defend what they like.

@pokeboy2584

Ай бұрын

if you want a better explanation, the DDLC side story ‘Understanding Part 1 does a better job at explaining it :)

Honestly I think this is just super petty drama. Similar to so much other art dramas lol…. I personally don’t really see how her (lavendertownes)video could really hurt anyone? she was doing it as a practice. I don’t think she ever said her designs were “better,” or was super rude about it. This is not a “cancelling” matter… obviously

I’m always slightly conflicted on this but mostly I feel like if you’re a true fan of a series then you wouldn’t be “fixing” a characters color palette . . . it’s one thing to draw a fan drawing in your style *but if you’re changing the color palette that’s a NO NO to me* Like a big no-no because that person put effort into that color palette there is no need to make a character who is white and red all of a sudden be brown and purple because thats by definition not the same character anymore once you change the color pallet. Best way I could do a comparison to IRL would be you wouldn’t want someone drawing a picture of you when you have dark skin and blonde hair as someone with light skin and dark hair and then demanding that THEY LOVE YOU & THAT THIS DRAWING IS YOU. . . even though the drawing clearly is NOT you & looks nothing like you.

I grew up watching cartoons in the early 2000s and Vivzie’s orange is a breath of fresh air since the cartoons I watch, grown-up all had a unique art styles that made them easy to identify. There was some butt ugly art like the problem solvers (idk what the hell they were thinking. I’m pretty sure some kids got epileptic seizures watching that show) I like the art style because it stands out and it’s easy to identify. Personally, I think redesigning someone else’s characters and I don’t like yours is an improvement and you did a better job than the creator of the characters. It’s kind of rude. This has been a controversy in the ACC when people which is redesign, someone self insert OC and be like “fair so much better I did it better than the actual creator of the self insert OC” and that is extremely rude because when it’s a self insert, the creator has intentions for how they want to be represented by the OC. (not a good look when you redesign someone OC, and you make the light skinned 💀) When people make characters they have intentions, for why did the character looks the way they do that makes sense to the creator who’s making the character. A lot of the time when I see these redesigns, they might as well be completely different characters.

I think two things need to change. One, we have to find a way for art KZreadrs to not feel so much pressure to stay relevant. Art takes time, so it's easy to rush into something without knowing all the details so you can get a video out before the popularity of something dies. Two, the Vivzie fandom needs to chill out. I'm saying this as a fan of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, the fans can be insane. Yes, it sucks when someone talks bad about or "ruins" your favorite things, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter

it happened with steven universe, and now it’s happening to hazbin! the internet, queer and otherwise, has a habit of dog piling on queer media and women lead media for daring to be imperfect. but of course, the marginalized can’t afford to be average

I’m gonna be so for fucking real, when it comes to character redesigns they can be cool it’s a cool way to show your art skills and creative freedom but then there is shitting on designs that are not yours and saying that you’re redesigns are better ( not referring to the creator of this vid) at the end of the day these characters have their designs there not going away and the fact people with scream and fight tooth and nail that they are awful when I see some redesigns that are absolutely awful and do nothing for the characters. ( lavander town’s redesigns) tbh I think artists need to get over themselves and accept that character designs are character designs and deal with it.

this needs more views oh my god you are so underrated

@lolaholliday

Ай бұрын

Thank you very much!

Damn, I'm shocked remaking Hazbin's designs is such a common thing?? I can day with certainty cartoons ate most definitely *not* my style (I go between semi realism and anime), and often I'll find cartoons just unnapealing, bur Hazbin was a feast to my eyes, and I was particularly impressed by the character designs during my first watch through

8:36 NAAAAHHHH that's foull 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 that'd be crazy

The problem of the designs are - they are over complicate, you see there is a rule in chararcher design : less is more. There are other ways to let me see things about chararchers They don't resemble that they should be How many knew Charlie was a goat How many knew Alastor is creole... And what about Nifty being from Japan Not many, rigth? Because the design don't show them Also why they have all the same style. I can get Alastor (even if a man in 50 didnt wear those things) like, THERE ARE MANY STYLES OUT THERE

@SomebodyWhoExists23

Ай бұрын

Niftys voice actor is japanese but is she really japanese in canon?

@kawaiiemolga

Ай бұрын

Charlie is not a goat, that was just a fake information someone spread around and people are still believing it even tho Vivzi said she's not. And Niffty isn't japanese, she can speak Japanese

@vvv8392

Ай бұрын

Charlie isn’t a goat and Nifty isn’t from Japan. What a joke you are to also not know shit from the show 💀

in my personal opinion I think it's fine if you don't like some Designs and you want to do some ReDesigns but this is not an excuse to take the piss out of vivizepop saying things like "Vivziepop can't draw humans ewwwwwww", and percolating the whole show just for the designs. And is a bit the same with lavender, you can't take the piss out of her because in your opinion she made some "bad ReDesigns" like she committed a crime or something.

I find the 'characters designs are too busy / complicated' critique really odd as theyre very simple and easy to remember. watching lavenders redesigns were so over the top and complicated, if such elements were added to the show it would have been hard to watch imo.

3:51 this was when the show wasn’t made and their was only the pilot

They aren't overdesigned though? I mean their pilot desings yes are a bit over done, but the current ones no. I look at Charlie and I see a business woman, I look at Al and I see a gentleman, I look ar Lucifer and I see a ringmaster. Their designs are not as simplified as say owl house characters yes. But they're not over designed, they have coherent directions that their appearances take. Could the characters as a whole use more colors? Possibly! But Al, Luci and Char should keep the reds because two are the royals of hell and Alastor may as well have been made specifically for hell, plus he's supposed to be the second most important cast member.

u deserve more attention :(

I think there's just way too many toxic people on both sides. You've got a part of the fanbase religiously defending Vivzie's work while going after any critique like a pack of rabid dogs, while at the same time you have a lot of critics who use disrespectful language that comes off as mean and not at all constructive. In reality, both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have their fair share of things that can and should be respectfully criticised or at the very least discussed, but a vocal part of the fanbase makes it very hard to do so when they will go after even people who critique the shows in a respectful manner. One theory as to why this is that I gravitate towards the most is the fact that the majority of Hazbin's and Helluva's audience happens to be pre-teens and teenagers despite the show being very adult both in tone and the themes being tackled. This is my biggest personal gripe with the show: the swearing. Not because I find it offensive (I don't), not because it doesn't fit the setting (it does), not because characters in other shows don't swear as much (they do), not because they're so frequent (it works perfectly well for Cartman), but because the swears feel just so out of place ninety percent of the time or are flat out excessive. Alastor doesn't swear, and he can still be funny! In Hazbin and Helluva, the swearing just feels like there to try to make the dialogue sound edgier and funnier, but swears themselves can't make anything inherently funny unless paired up with something else that carries the brunt of the comedy. In addition, swear words have more impact when used sparingly and less impact when they're constantly being used, and this is no exception in Hazbin and Helluva's case. Why does excessive swearing work in South Park but not in Habin or Helluva, for example? A show Vivizie personally claims to have taken inspiration from regarding swearing. 1. In South Park, only a handful of characters excessively swear (and half of them are Cartman), whereas characters from Hazbin and Helluva will swear even when they're not fuming with rage. 2. Not even Cartman swears so much unless he's actively upset about something, while Vivzie's characters, again, have swear words in every other sentence for seemingly no other reason than to attempt to make the dialog funnier (and not understanding that putting a swear word randomly in a sentence does not make it funnier). If you disagree, I would love to hear your thoughts on why you think the swearing works and why the arguments I presented don't hold water. But at the end of the day, this is just my opinion, and some people might fund the swearing funny and not excessive in the least. All in all, Vivzie is not beyond critique, none of us are, but both sides seriously need to chill. Critics need to stop bashing on the show and being disrespectful when critiquing it, and the fans need to put down their torches and pitchforks.

in the newest redesign lavendertowne had to restate it was for fun and for an AU, i dont get the hate.

To be so fair to lavendertowne, it’s ridiculous to expect anyone to have to do outside research on character lore for a show. It’s not even like Star Wars with their novelizations that add supplemental content. Like. If you can only explain in a podcast from four years ago why it’s important one of your main characters is a spider, a point that is never made in the show, then it’s not that important and should not be expected for every fan to know

5:42 I’m not gonna lie I’m just terrified of what she did to nifty.

Tbh its not really the artstyle but like the characters themselves alot of the grey characters are supposedly ? black or brown like ex val , alastor , vaggie etc but theres no black or brown features within them 😭

I'd hate for my own characters to become popular or mainstream because it will get 'fixed' by others no questions asked Popularity really just hurt the artists because every character in media is an oc! Sonic, Mario, Rayman, Steven Universe characters in general are ocs! That's why characters made for those worlds are actually called fan characters! If you wouldn't like your ocs be taken and redesigned then why are you doing it? For fun? Yeah I'm sure it's fun for VivziePop to see her designs be butchered every 5 minutes.

What is it about hazbin hotel and vivziepop as a whole that makes so many wars online? It's so strange. It's like the sonic phenomenon with so many people who like sonic being massive weirdos. Not all the sonic fanbase but like there's definitely a good portion of them out there.

It's funny how the people who hate the artists for redesigning HH/HB characters, telling them they're practically destroying what the characters are supposed to be as if tons of Viv's characters are actually hers to begin with. She's literally using characters from mythology for crying out loud, people. And they're not even close to what they're portrayed as either and yet you guys think you're in any position to tell how an artist is supposed to redesign a character?