the evidence for all to see... www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-the-motion-picture.php

@Cauin450

23 күн бұрын

Love the moesty!

@jacobfoster9185

23 күн бұрын

It's ridiculous that the federation would sign a treaty saying we can't use cloaks but you can .

@NightOwlModeler

22 күн бұрын

I don't need to see your evidence. If you're going to break cannon in the first 3 minutes of your video, I'm not wasting my time. Honestly, you lost me at "Cloaks don't work in atmosphere!" As we repeatedly see it working in atmosphere in ST:IV, and the movie plot would have been completely broken if it wasn't working. 1980s US military would have been all over Golden Gate Park. In fact we see Sulu flying the plastic sheets into the cloaking field, showing that very clearly the field does work in a gas environment. So I'm sorry, but I'm done watching your 'retread' video at this point.

@TheRezro

22 күн бұрын

For the starters, Federation always could have a clock. It was not an advanced tech in 24'th century. Like it was in 23'th century. Federation just as good will gesture agree to not develop this tech. Because in Federation doctrine at the time, they didn't need it. And TBH they break it already with Section 31 spy ships, what pretend to be Federation mining freighters (we actually see those in Strange New World). But that is beside the point as S31 was illegal.

@TheRezro

22 күн бұрын

I don't think Enterprise-B was lost way before Enterprise-C, considering that from 2290's they clearly intend it as diplomatic ship. It would make no sense to have mayor delay. Though if someone do not like epidemic as ending, it is entirely possible that actual event was covered up. TBH is Romulans and Klingons together decided that Federation cross the line, it probably was something major.

But.... but.... The cloaking device wasn't due to be installed on the _Enterprise-B_ until next Tuesday.

@aquariandawn4750

23 күн бұрын

Right after the coffee bar

@nickr0785

22 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂

@aqdrobert

22 күн бұрын

Captain: We can't find the cloaking device. Once Wesley Crusher tested it, it vanished into a pocket universe. For that matter, we can't seem to locate Dr. Crusher, either.

@aquariandawn4750

22 күн бұрын

@@aqdrobert bring Wesley to the bridge, I want to tell him to shut up again

@aqdrobert

22 күн бұрын

@@aquariandawn4750 Traveler: He shall return Next Tuesday, Captain.

Always loved how you put a cloak in the Ent B and the sister refits. Made sense, works with the timeline, and gives reason for the Treaty of Algeron.

@999benhonda

23 күн бұрын

Except that treaty banned the development of a cloak

@MadMichigander1313

23 күн бұрын

What it also explains, is why the Excelsior Fight-2 isn't as common as expected. After the Treaty of Algeron the areas in question the volume would have been repurposed for sensors. I came up with variant Flight 2A which expands on the stardrive section, and incorporated Ambassador class components which is what disappeared in 2329.

@farshnuke

22 күн бұрын

Yeah it's a pity it took this video for me to go. "Oh yeah I guess there wouldn't be a reason to forbid cloaking devices unless they had used them."

@valor1omega

15 күн бұрын

However no onscreen evidence is provided that the B or any other ship had a cloaking device. This is Star Trek not Star wars, books mean nothing if it's not on screen it doesn't happen, it's as simple as that. All of you thinking it's on ships it's your head canon and head canon means nothing when it comes to actual canon.

@farshnuke

15 күн бұрын

@@valor1omega Dude, why come to a fan lore channel to say fan lore doesn't happen. I can be critical of some of Venom's takes but saying "Well it's not canon" just makes you look like an idiot.

The Enterprise A had one too. In the novelization of Star Trek VI, Capt Spock and Crew decided against using their cloak to bluff past a Klingon security outpost. This was added to the on screen dialogue about the unknown saboteur

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

Good point they fly through klingon space like its nothing in 6

Yeah, Starfleet was definitely lying about being unable to find the Bounty to cover up having its cloak.

@vishnu79

23 күн бұрын

If they'd admitted that they'd found the Bounty, the Klingons would have demanded that they return it. Just like that time the US Navy retrieved pieces of a Soviet SSBN that sank, and when the Soviets asked "Hey there, what are you doing with that big salvage ship and those support ships near where our sub went missing?" and the Navy just came back with "Just conducting environmental studies and stuff, totally legit, bro, trust me."

@SampoPaalanen

22 күн бұрын

@@vishnu79 They also could have found parts of the Bounty but not the whole thing, San Francisco bay has many heavy currents so the Bird of Prey could have been spread over a long area and Starfleet just "failed" mention they did recover parts of it like the cloaking device.

@florians.849

22 күн бұрын

@@SampoPaalanen Then why is the Bounty in one piece in the starfleet museum in star trek picard?

@SampoPaalanen

22 күн бұрын

@@florians.849 It's easy to assume they later recovered the hull and repaired it, just because most of the hull is intact it doesn't mean small pieces like the cloaking device couldn't have be gotten loose on the crash and floated away.

@assemblyrequired7342

22 күн бұрын

@@vishnu79 At least up until the aftermath of the Battle of Narenda III, in which case, the Klingons would've been like "nah, we knew you had her the entire time! We're good!"

"I can see you Harriman.can yo..." (Enterprise B engages cloak) 😮🤯😂😂

@thehillbillygamer2183

23 күн бұрын

Starfleet is not going to leave but damaged alien ship at the bottom of San Francisco Bay if the warp core blew up it would be worse than a hydrogen bomb going off it will completely destroy the city it might render the entire state uninhabitable God knows how much radiation and shit that would put out and it might be worse than a nuclear bomb going off by antimatter explosion in the atmosphere and who knows what kind of toxins and contaminants you know since it's an alien ship can be spreading Earth's atmosphere the complete completely poisoned the planet so yeah they're not going to allow that they'll have that sumbitch out of there in a day or two we could raise our submarines From the Bottom of the Sea in 1980 well they only got half of it the America did that to a Russian submarine in 1980 they got half of it off the bottom of the sea it was a deep sea drilling platform or some shit but really they was a you know stealing that Russian submarine and I did get half of it and new kind of nuclear reactor it was I think it was a big Oscar class

The fact that the whole treaty banning the federation from having cloaks is a thing suggests they were definitely using cloaking devices 100%. It wouldn't make any sense for the Romulans to be so touchy as to put it into the treaty, unless the federation was actively using it during their little war. I do like the creation of this lore, though I don't think the federation would sneak attack colonies, or just attack colonies in general. That is definitely something that the federation would frown upon.

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

If you watch the tomed incident it will make more sense. They probably were military targets but inevitably there's a civilian population alongside it.

@knightofavalon86

22 күн бұрын

I take it as read that the Federation would not glass civilian population centers, but the Romulans WOULD, and they would assume the Federation would too.

@phoenixyo9987

22 күн бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I did watch it before I watched this one, I just felt like they probably wouldn't even take that risk. Idk if starfleet has the capability to stealth way into romulan space, they for sure would of reconed the planets in question and saw they were civilians. I guess they could of just been large military institutions with dense civilian populations around them. I don't remember exactly how you framed it in the video. Either way, the likelihood that they wouldn't recon planets they plan on preemptively striking is pretty low in my opinion. With that in mind, I doubt starfleet would actively ok a all out preemptive attack on a military or non military target if there were significant civilian populations around it. Even given the highly militarized state of Star fleet at the time. But that could lead to some interesting plot points, where starfleet realizing how far removed from their core being, has let themselves be ok with such horrorific attacks. It would also play into some mindsets we see in TNG, where clearly the federation has been super relaxed about being prepared for war. The cardassian war I feel like should of been a easy sweep for the federation. Then the borg almost wiping out the home of the federation, its only during the leadup to the dominion war where they almost return to that militarized state. Honestly if i were the federation, Id actively keep up a couple of fleets just purely built for war, just orbiting around in the federation. they dont have to even be that massive of fleets, but fleets that if needed, can easily be sent to defend the frontier. Something to give enemies pause before attacking. I still though doubt that they would. Its more likely in my mind that you take the tomad story you have created (which is very good) but replace the motivations for peace like this: Federation with stealth technology during the incident posed such a great threat to the Romulan navy, that they demanded the federation never use it again. Probably because they suffered heavy fleet loses during the war, whereas for the federation they sought the mutual removal of Planetary warheads after the romulans basically evaporate several federation colonies. Anyways a good video, its fun to see and im expecting more more to come.

@farshnuke

21 күн бұрын

@@phoenixyo9987 We see what Enterprise D era Starfleet is prepared to do in war and we see what Archer is prepared to do in war, with the order in A Taste Of Armegeddon fire on the planet being a sign that in TOS Star Fleet has provision to be ruthless in that era. Then factor in that the Romulans have the largest amount of baggage for Starfleet and I can see it being viable.

I don't need sleep i need cloaking devices

You are far better than Trek Central in this man's opinion

Here's an interesting point: Wasn't Kirk living in the shadow of Captain Pike? Pike commanded the Enterprise for at least 10 years before he turned command of the ship over to Kirk. And Pike was alive and well for a portion of Kirk's captaincy of the Enterprise, up until Pike got delta radiation poisoning.

@jonathanbair523

16 күн бұрын

You are right, Kirk is the second captain... There was a TOS where Pike came on board for a trial and was questioned about a top secret event while he was a comadoor. (Not sure how to spell it but it sounds like that is how it is should be)

@enterprise1701e

16 күн бұрын

@@jonathanbair523 Technically, Kirk is the Enterprise's third captain. Robert April commanded the Enterprise before Christopher Pike.

An early draft for star trek VI had Scotty dissembling and studying the bounty

An interesting time to do an overview of post-2293 Enterprise-B. If the Ent-B is MIA, one can hope it gets recovered like the USS Stargazer. And yes, I agree that the Enterprise-B having a cloak is a reasonable assessment, as provided by all the ing evidence.

Nice, a Stargate SG1 line reading! Outstanding! "In the middle of my backswing?!"

@matthewdavies2057

23 күн бұрын

That's gotta be a record...

"I don't ever want to have to explain myself again.". Now I know what to ask for the next Q&A 😁

Interesting points on the likeliness of Starfleet actually having cloaking devices. That aside - I'm not sure how I feel about that "stretched" Excelsior secondary hull concept. I kinda like it, but at the same time, it feels off. But I gotta ask - was the Ent-B's cloak installed in time for Generations, or was that also planned for Tuesday? Re: The Bounty. If you wanted to find it, just hang some chains or nets or something off the back of a ship and just trawl it back and forth across the Bay until they snag on something. Investigate what it snagged on. Eventually, TADA~ Klingon BoP found, cloak up or down. That being said, Starfleet might have "lost" the ship in the Bay in order to reduce tensions with the Klingons and then later the Romulans. Also, love the SG-1 ref. That might be my favorite episode of the series. I honestly hope the Ent-B's fate continues to be left unsaid for alpha canon. Having a little mystery in the lineage is interesting.

@yelwinmoisesacostaduarte8915

23 күн бұрын

probably with off camouflage since the ship had practically run out of battery.

@Sephiroth144

23 күн бұрын

Or if it was just, "Oh, another BOP? We've got three already... why are we gonna bother fishing that one up?"

Well technically cloaks bend light to make the ship invisible. The ship is still there. You could find it with radar, or if its underwater-sonar.

I have fell in love with your theory years ago and it has been head cannon for me ever since. It just makes so much sense timeline-wise.

Section 31 never gave up their cloaking devices because laws are for other people.

@Warsheep2k6

23 күн бұрын

do what it takes to keep the good guys afloat ... while S31 is shady they are still part of the good guys

@andrewblanchard2398

23 күн бұрын

SECTION 31 ISN'T CANON

@M167A1

23 күн бұрын

The federation always struck me as kind of stupid, without section 31, which is vastly more interesting than regular Starfleet it (the Federation) wouldn't be around very long.

@enoughothis

23 күн бұрын

@@M167A1, Section 31 exists to be the eternal pessimists in the glorious optimistic future. To safeguard idealism in a universe which is harsh beyond the Federation's borders. They stay awake so that others may sleep comfortably. That is their mission and their burden.

@Warsheep2k6

23 күн бұрын

@@andrewblanchard2398 it is though its part of the tng and to a part enterprises timeline though they weren't called like that yet

Cloaking devices absolutely work in a non-space media. We've seen cloaking devices work in planetary atmosphere _multiple_ times. In _multiple_ incarnations of the franchise.

congrats to 30k. I dont always agree with your opinions but respect that you accept the idea that starfleet is a military. a noble one sure but to be insulting all life is human after all. keep up the good work good health and good winds.

I did know The Enterprise B could had a Cloaking Device.

sufficiently explained, thank you very much I like it a little more that the B is still there, like a coffin that will only be murdered shortly after being born.

I really like this explanation. It even makes sense if why there weren't more of this hull style. I like your work. I don't nessisarely agree with everything in all your videos... heck, I think Michael Okuda screwed up more than a few concepts... but you're one of the best theorists I have stumbled across in a long time.

honestly Id half buy that it took them a while to find the bounty, not because the bounty's cloak but because when they finally started looking for the ship it was atleast a decade when they decided to look for the ship again and well they forgot where the ship crashlanded.

I would like to see the exploring of the Enterprise-C and Captain Garrett. It's not as crazy a time, but she seems really interesting.

@ah7910

23 күн бұрын

OK SecretHideOut Bot… absolutely no coincidence at all she will be in the upcoming Section 31 travesty, I mean movie.

@andrwblood9162

20 күн бұрын

@@ah7910 Yo, did you call me a bot because I want to see more from an Enterprise and Captain that hasn't been done to death? Are you really this paranoid about space fiction? 🤣

I read somewhere that they did the upgrades was that starfleet discovered that the early production Excelsior 's were getting very bad battle damage in really light battles around their navigational deflector and it made going to warp somewhat difficult.

Yes! What a perfect stargate reference!!!

When was The Bounty cloaked again in The Bay? I remember them on that chin strap in The Bay uncloaked before it sinks. It's been a while since I've watched 4 so I could be forgetting something.

@brodyalves1861

23 күн бұрын

I assume something malfunctioned on the way to the sea floor and it reactivated. It really doesn’t make sense that they couldn’t find it but it makes for a fun story so I think it’s cannon.

@crownprincesebastianjohano7069

23 күн бұрын

She never cloaked in the Bay in Star Trek IV. Only reference in canon is Picard Season 3 exposition as far as I know.

@BaronFeydRautha

23 күн бұрын

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 ok, so not canon to the prime timeline in my head canon. LOL. Everything after First Contact is a skewed timeline as far as I'm concerned. So the Enterprise is in that new timeline as well as the kelvin and kurtzman Trek. So STP is the Picard from the Enterprise future. If that makes any sense. It also makes the Spock in 2009 the Spock from the Future of Enterprise. It's a little convoluted but it seems to be able to explain away all the garbage kurtzman is getting wrong.

@BaronFeydRautha

23 күн бұрын

@@brodyalves1861 Even if it did cloak from a malfunction, why would they let a treasure trove of Intel just at the bottom of San Francisco Bay? Like, it should have been a walk in the park finding it.

@DragoonMS

22 күн бұрын

​@@BaronFeydRautha Priorities. Had to work on rebuilding the Earth from the planetwide damage inflicted by the probe. Now, maybe by the time Star Trek V: The Final Frontier starts, they'd have already went back and scooped it up? We may never know exactly when they got that bad bird out, but we know they absolutely got her...

Haven’t watched the Tomed incident yet, it kind of looks like the Romulan Cloaking device wasn’t completely able to integrate with the Constitution mK I. They could make it work for short term to get out of a problem, but not for long term. The Constitution Refit would have the Cloaking Device installed directly, but had a few problems with it. It just never really was fully integrated and could randomly fail. It wasn’t until the Klingon cloaking device was reverse engineered that the Federation was able to get it fully operational and as an integral design in the Excelsior refit that it was working to full capabilities. This would mean that during the Tomed incident the Romulans realized that the Federation Cloaking worked better than theirs by an order of magnitude. The Romulans only saving grace was they had significantly more of them, seeing as only the Excelsior refits could properly use them. The Tomed incident showed that the Federation could use a Cloaking device far better than the Romulans, which is why they were very adamant that the Federation could no longer use Cloaks. This is supported by the Next Generation episode where in Secret and much fewer resources they were able to develop a Phase Cloak. Where the Romulans using Cloaking on a much higher level weren’t even close to it. The Scimitar’s ‘perfect cloak’, was more likely made up of a bunch of smaller integrated Cloaking devices. Supported by the fight with the Enterprise E.

Nice work 😊😊

Cloaking device? That won't be installed until Tuesday.

Using Lukashenko image...i approve! LOL!!!

Rumor has it that Star Fleet command is still desperately pouring through ships logs, build schematics, and crew manifests, looking for the right combination of mystical charms, to produce another ship named Enterprise with lucky streak as great as Enterprise A. Enterprise B disappears without a trace, Enterprise C is lost in battle against the Romulans, and Enterprise C losses a fight to a single Klingon bird of prey, RIKER!

VG has the best videos.

I do want to point out that the exact quote from TNG "The Pegasus" was that, in the treaty of Algeron, the Federation "agreed not to develop cloaking technology," suggesting that it had not developed it already.

My personal head canon is that the Enterprise B survived, and was decommissioned. Star Trek has an unrealistic trend of Enterprises being destroyed with the count maybe being at 6/8 (NCC-1701, B, C, D, E, F). That's an awfully high rate. a ratio of more like 3/8 (NCC-1701, C, D) seems much more reasonable to me. If a ship had so many of its previous incarnations lost as 5 or 6 out of 8 it would not build a reputation of being the best of the best, it would build a reputation of being a cursed name.

@DragoonMS

22 күн бұрын

The Enterprise-F wasn't destroyed, though, she was decommissioned. We don't know what exactly happened to the Enterprise-B, but she clearly didn't make it to be decommissioned when you consider that the only Enterprises at the ship museum were the NX-01, A, D, and eventually F. (1701, C, & D were confirmed destroyed, and they literally revived the D thanks to a rebuild project with the retrieved saucer and a donor engineering section.) The only ones left ambiguous are the B & E. Whatever canonically happened to the Enterprise-E was clearly after Worf stepped down from being the commanding officer ("It was not my fault!"). I don't think ANY TNG Era or Lost Era media as of yet has even bothered to canonically explain the Enterprise-B's fate...which is kinda silly.

Star Trek Picard made note the Bounty was sitting on the bottom of the bay due to the cloak managing to turn on. Which you really would have assumed the device wouldn't operate in water, but the neat thing is the Klingon ship was able to be submerged in water without damaging the ship to heavily.

When I saw Trek Central's video I did think of you.

I was planning on animating this exact thing earlier

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

please do i'd love to see it

What does Picard mean the Bounty was lost in the bay? They didn't have a cloak engaged when they landed and you're seriously telling me that between 'Voyage Home' and 'Picard', they never once went out and dredged the bay in those hundreds of years? Fuck Kurtzman and NuTrek. Also, I remember when 'First Contact' came out, the toy version of the Enterprise E stated that it had a cloaking device on the back of the box. This always intrigued me because I knew that the Federation didn't have cloaks on their ships (aside from the Defiant) and not having the internet back then as we do now, I couldn't just "look it up". Really makes you wonder what they had planned for the E.

I recall that each time the treaty is mentioned, they say it prevents the federation from "developing" its own cloaking technology.

Actually a very good article on the history of the Enterprise-B.

That is true regarding the Klingon BOP. Also, a cloaked ship immersed in water should show up on sonar just fine.

Edit: I have just watched the video and I think everything you say is very reasonable and makes sense. Very well made and very good. My original comment before I watched the video if you're curious: I haven't watched the video yet but since the thumbnail was Sisko and it's about a cloaking device you've reminded me of one thing you said about the Defiant that quietly bugged me "The federation has one ship they can have a cloaking device on and it's this one" My argument would be the Romulans only let the Defiant have a cloaking device because it trying to be stealthy is like a suit of power armour having a stealth boy in Fallout 4 aka it's so comically absurd that sure say the Romulans if it's the Defiant and only Sisko's Defiant then fine. They insist it's only Sisko's Defiant because another Captain might Rules Lawyer the Romulans by retro fitting the ship to actually be good at Stealth. Sisko's Mentor was a beloved ambassador to the Klingons and he developed the Defiant to be a Borg Killer bristling with power and dakka. So they can trust him to run about in the equivalent of the suit of armor covered in bells and lights while thinking himself super stealthy for being the one person whose armour is allowed to be khaki coloured. I've heard your theory before about the cloaking device and I have no issue with it. I respect your perspective about Admiral Westmore and agree that treaties are good. The fact of the matter is that Starfleet have never used cloaks on tv because the writers think cloaks are the purview of bad guys but once you have faster than light travel surprise attacks are already by default a possibility so I don't actually care if they do or don't use them. I do get irritated when people are super gungho about the Federation are weak for not using them but I also get annoyed when fans criticise the the Federation for not being ready for the Borg or the Dominion. Those fans say Starfleet should be super sneaky and use cloaks - like the Romulans - who also got blindsided by the Borg and the Dominion. Or the fans say the Federation should be super militaristic and heavily armed like the Klingons - who also got blindsided by the Borg and the Dominion. Then they say that the Galaxy class was dangerously weak and pacifistic. When it could stand up in a fight against the best the Romulans and Klingons could field at the time. If your cruise ship can take on a giant built by super sneaky fascists and a warship built by people obsessed with war and battle then maybe that cruise ship isn't weak. Just my personal opinion. If I'm being charitable people are criticising the federation for not flexing its strength to its maximum capacity and to that I say: Star Fleet does not exist to go to war or to invade places. It is not weak and it will respond with strength if absolutely necessary but it is not weakness to choose to be kind and non violent when you can. Anyway I disagree with you at times but I am glad you make your videos and I greatly enjoy them. I hope my comments at least help the algorithm favour you.

1:26 23rd century..... Advanced comms and computers. Plans printed on paper you can get at an office store. Also about the Bounty i believe it got lost because it literally flew itself under water after it was freed from the whale probe and was sinking due to the cargo being opened up. Also I will stand by on this it took the protostar shuttle pod to find it because the craft landed exactly where the bounty did.

@Ty-yt3lj

23 күн бұрын

Can’t hack a sheet of paper

If it's Tuesday, it's Tomed time!

i like the ghost ship theory more, it sounds a lot better than being destroyed right after leaving space dock.

After revisiting the idea of the Enterprise-B now basically being a ghost ship, I REALLY wanna see a Star Trek show that’s more focused on cosmic horror. Not sure how well it would do, but a guy can dream

That stretched Excelsior at 6:32 is the best version of excelsior I've ever seen. I wish we got that in the series. I'm not the biggest fan of Chekov being a bitter man that couldn't understand Kirk's death properly. That seems out of character. I'm also not the biggest fan of Harriman "Snapping" under pressure. He did very well from what we see in the movie and I think he had the right stuff to be a captain and I think he would of either refused the order, or stepped himself down. He was a humble man. Now for the part you won't like. Keep in mind mate, I still liked this video. So, I'm still not convinced it has a cloak. Not for sure at least, I won't say Starfleet never used them, but I don't buy that the added bulk to the Excelsior is for a Cloaking device. I understand that you are frustrated by this, but I don't find the evidence as compelling or nearly as overwhelming. I think your Algeron argument is well argued, but a bit not conclusive. I don't think the treaty of Algeron banning the use and development of cloaking devices instantly means that Starfleet was in active use of cloaks. Implication, is not explicit or evidence. The treaty could have been a formal replacement of a prior agreement, or the Romulans could of been acting off of concern that the Federation MAY use cloaks in the future, since they have the means. To ensure an advantage in any future conflict. It could also be that the Federation didn't really use cloaks but willingly gave up the ability to as a way of sweetening the Treaty of Algeron. They weren't using them anyway, but giving them up it hands something over to the Romulans to count as a victory on the page. I don't think the development timeline works out to well for this theory though. Why would Miranda class ships like the Reliant not have a cloaking device? It came into service well after the first cloak was taken by Kirk. An entire Starship generation in fact. About 20 years after the first cloak was taken and Starfleet didn't think to develop and integrate this technology onto their new ships? Seem kind of silly, especially given the geopolitical situation at the time. Klingons with cloaks on one side. Romulan's with cloaks on the other. I find it hard to believe they couldn't. Did they lose that cloak they stole from the Romulans? Did some Redshirt accidentally mistake it for a broken lamp and sent it to the incinerator? So why wouldn't they include them onto new classes like Miranda? Why don't we see the Refit-Enterprise ever use a cloak? Or the Enterprise-A? I mean, It probably would of helped a fair bit against Chang, or Khan Or that random BoP in ST:V. Instead we are left with a twenty year gap where apparently they did nothing with cloaking technology. No effort whatsoever to integrate them onto their ships. One would think the ever innovative and dynamic Starfleet would've managed to design their new classes of starships with cloaks if they had them. One would think that by the 20 year mark they would of gotten production sorted out. especially given that the Romulan cloak was almost plug and play. But no, apparently it took a cloak of a Klingon BoP and another what? seven years? to really iron out the kinks. I do not find that believable. I don't know why Excelsior would need to specifically create two large blisters on the secondary hull to hold a cloaking device when plenty of other ships, not at all designed to use cloaks when they were first built never had to make such accommodation. If you want to talk of things being implicit or explicit then I would say that based on the implications that non of these vessels: Mirror universe NX. Kirk's Enterprise. D7. Enterprise-D Defiant. Ever had an sort of significant physical changes to their hulls to accommodate a cloaking device. This implies that cloaking devices do not take up the amount of space to explain why the Excelsior has those large bulges on the secondary hull Even those Gene Roddenberry schematics don't show the older, smaller refit connie as needing a large external change to accommodate the cloak. So why did Excelsior need to do that? Also, Given that Excelsior is supposed to be the new whizz-bang, top of the line, biggest, baddest new ship on the block. Why didn't the original include a cloaking device? Seems like a pretty big oversight to not include that provision. Again, given the geopolitical situation of the day and that Starfleet had well over 20 years to get their own cloaking program working with a massive headstart.

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO CONVINCE YOU in all seriousness though good points. i don't hate the idea that it was a formalisation of an understanding. but we do run into the question then. "what was the Tomed Incident?" and "why were the Romulans worrried about federation cloaks?" as for Miranda not having it... im sure it could. but lets bear in mind the klingons were not heavily employing cloaks at this point, so the federation wouldn't have to match it and im of the view that miranda was built to face the klingons whilst other (often lighter) ships like the Akula and Columbia while of little use against the klingons would be a good "Submarine Hunter" force. the columbia following excelsiors design language. i think there is a difference between installing a ship with a cloak and building it from scratch to cloak

Makes total sense to me. The only reason for a "ban" on something is because someone caught you with your hands in the proverbial cookie jar. That someone was probably Section 31 who got caught doing some evil crap...which makes a damned good notion for a new story or movie.

What I want to know is, in the Enterprise Incident the Starfleet ordered Kirk (under the table) to steal the Clocking device be cause they needed it because they knew F all about it otherwise why steal it? So How the F did Kirk know how to remove it without causing all kinds of s**t the Romulans would pick up on the bridge? Also how the F would Scotty know how to install it on the Enterprise even though it was designed to work in a Romulan system which has been established in TNG uses a different type of power without causing the Enterprise to say F it I'm done?

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

He had a good guess?

@yelwinmoisesacostaduarte8915

23 күн бұрын

​@@venomgeekmedia9886 yes , that It really needs an in-universe explanation, now that I think about it, but then that would give "deep space 9" some air to the original series. with starfleet ordering the theft of enemy technology in a time that does not allow it to be done justifiably, but this technology was not known (not counting ENT.) but as happens in SNW, some guard post in the neutral zone would have been account of the cloaking device and notify the command...

5:00 so kartoffelfuhrer and UFP are in cahoots? Strong Lore Reloaded vibe 😆

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

Once again Lukashenko leaks top secret information

We're back to all the controversy generated by The Search for Spock. There was so much hype after The Wrath of Khan, key to all the ANTICIPATION! Included the new FASA products ESPECIALLY Star Trek: The Role Playing game. In the game, the stats for the new Excelsior class battleship was released. Not a experimental one off ship full of new technologies. But a production line, of new generation vessels to reach past, all previous Federation vessels. Old trekkies like myself fully expected to see ALL the technology obtained by NCC 1701, during her five years mission. A ship that had SURVIVED traveling at Transwarp speed, on numerous occasions. As well as successfully stealing a Romulan cloaking device, from the Romulans! Later when the Klingon scout ship is controlled by. James T. Kirk. Cmdr Scott had little difficulty in modifying snd IMPROVING the Klingon cloak to be optional at all times. Once on 20th century Earth. The ship was able to remain closked, while landed. WITH MAIN POWER OFFLINE! Scotty also modified the ship's " nain Energizer to; "something less primitive!" Most frustrating of all was a short seen I remember from the theater. Shortly after The Search for Spock was released. A short clip, then removed, never to be seen again. Left out of later prints. I The scene showed a Klingon ambassador addressing an intergalactic assembly. His words echoing Dr Mickoy's reaction to the Genesis project. Taking about the Excelsior class. A class of ship. Cruising at Transwarp speed, using cloaking devices to fire genesis torpedoes into the worlds of all other interstellar species! He called openly, quickly seconded ny the Romulan delegation. For a universal war, to destroy the Federation before the Excelsior class could be deployed in sufficient numbers. Kirk arrived with the Enterprise, with a fanatically loyal crew. Once the Enterprise is docked, suddenly ALL crew members are summarily reassigned. Enterprise is left abandoned without the formality of a decommissioning ceremony! It's seems obvious that to ensure peace. The Federation was barred from using Transwarp drive, cloaking devices and genesis torpedoes. I think it's fair to say, that the Federation was equally horrified by the potential genesis project. The Klingons were furious by their FAILURE, to seize gensis for themselves. So I have always expected the recalibrated Transwarp drive, and cloaking devices were fitted to all or most Excelsior class ships. In the event that the treaty barring their use, was broken. A far more satisfactory reason for the crazy longevity of the Excelsiors in service. An Excelsior captain would have the classified ability to reactivate these these classified systems.

On an unrelated note, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an Excelsior variant with the extended secondary hull. It makes sense for the added volume (and it arguably balances out the design).

Explains the extra impulse power units needed to feed the prototype powerhungry cloaking device.

I have absolutely no problems with the Excelsior Block 2s having cloaking devices, never have even when I was watching TNG with the Treaty of Algeron in place. It just made sense to have them. There was plenty of time between the Enterprise Incident and the Treaty of Algeron where they'd have no legal reason not to equip ships with cloaks and plenty of good reasons to do so. We just never saw our heroes in a situation where they needed to use them. The closest I can think of off the top of my head would be the rescue of Kirk from Rura Penthe, and who's to say they weren't using it then. They were able to bluff the Klingon outpost fairly effectively after all, and this would have been a 23rd Century cloak, not the "Nobody's here except this random space anomaly" cloaks that the 24th Century Romulans had. As Captain Harriman, I feel for the guy. He seemed like a reasonably competent officer with astoundingly bad luck. It was just a quick jaunt around the solar system, a dog-and-pony show for the press to crow about the Old Guard handing off to the next generation. Oh, crud, a distress call. Well we have to answer it. OK we got the survivors out but we're stuck. Oh Kirk and his friends have a plan. Great we're free... What do you mean Kirk is dead?! I never had the chance to read the lost era books, but what I've seen of the synopses doesn't seem to contradict my view of Harriman, and as for him snapping during the Tomed Incident, I can see it happening. Some people are just not psychologically prepared for basically wiping out civilians on a massive scale. I'm civilian and have no knowledge about the matter, but it would be obvious IMO that modern ballistic missile sub captains need to be of a certain psychological profile, maybe with Starfleet they didn't think to test him on that and he turned out to be someone who was fragile enough that he couldn't bear the thought of what would be essentially mass murder. (Good enough to deal with most combat situations, but not for this type of mission)

Gotta love those years where the Enterprise B painted all of their registry numbers mirrored left to right....like at the 19 minute mark....

Absolutely agree, The B and others had a cloak. However the B for sure.

This is why we NEED a series based on the adventures of the Enterprise B.

@nathanielmeade5731

23 күн бұрын

Call George Takei, Hikaru Sulu needs to seen as an Admiral!

@theshadobase157

21 күн бұрын

yes definately a series about the enterprise 1701b

@theshadobase157

21 күн бұрын

@@nathanielmeade5731 was he a captain in his early 100year old age around the time he was young chacoatys sponsor at the academy before he became first officer on voyager!

I enjoy Trek Central but yours is still my favorite Trek channel. I also enjoy TriAngulum Studios but his videos are different and a lot of Beta Canon and yours have more detailed information.

I h8 TrekCentral... especially that guy who insists on calling himself a "leftenant."

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

I'd be intrested if you have any thoughts on this topic?

@DarinRWagner

23 күн бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I don't think that the Enterprise-B had a cloaking device. Roddenberry said the reason why Starfleet doesn't typically have them is because "our guys don't sneak around."

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

@@DarinRWagner hmm. So what about those blueprints?

@DarinRWagner

23 күн бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I would assume those are a clerical error... possibly by a third party licensee.

It would also explain why by the time of TNG and DS9 we see no Excelsiors with the bow wings. With the treaty banning the use of the cloaking devices they were either removed and new Excelsiors didn't have them built!

yay youtube makers waring over each other while we the fan base get feed more cooler interesting info ty Venom Geek

The cloaking device would fit the theme of Trek being Submarines in space

As for the argument claiming Excelsior-refit to have 'additional science labs', it is possible that machinery inside the secondary hull is relocated into the new extension, to make space for the science laboratories deeper in.

@SuperGamefreak18

23 күн бұрын

call that politics

@keirfarnum6811

23 күн бұрын

Naw. That extension was for floating on water when Harriman wanted a yacht to vacation on. It was obviously designed with hydrodynamics in mind. Harriman liked water skiing.

@Sephiroth144

23 күн бұрын

Or they could add to the Bubble on the Back of Excelsiors- why reconfigure the actual secondary hull when they could expand over the flat area on top of the secondary hull?

@birdmonster4586

23 күн бұрын

Space is naturally tight on a starship. it makes sense that anything larger than say... a cloaking device. like entire laboratories would necessitate moving other stuff to the new extensions.

@brentnakamura2488

23 күн бұрын

Perhaps Cloaking physics, and related sensor technology is classified as Science, despite being a tactical defensive measure. Advanced Klingon Battle cloak that could remain hidden while launching torpedo had been known to Starfleet and development of countermeasures to it's drawbacks were of interest. Specific systems aboard a starship may be harder to cloak than others with older cloaking devices. Additional physical ridge buffering around those systems could be optimal, and a pattern found in other cloak designed ships, or physical buffering to mask additional containment energy fields. When you cloak your shields drop, and you are vulnerable. Extra Reinforcement can help to mitigate that vulnerability to key systems as well.

It's certainly possible. I recall a TNG episode called "The Pegasus" which was the search for an old Excelsior era ship(Oberth Class I think) featuring not just a secret Fed cloaking device in violation of that Romulan treaty but a highly advanced experimental one that could pass through solid matter. Great episode actually. Point being. While this secret Federation cloaking experiment most likely occurred after the Enterprise-B time line, it happened on Rikers very first ship as a newly graduated cadet and the ship with its experimental cloak had been missing for what was suggested to be a long time, which would very much suggest the Federation did have cloaking tech before this extremely advanced version and therefore the Enterprise-B would certainly have been around during this time. I have to wonder if there's any connection between the Enterprise-B cloaking tech and the Pegasus? I also wonder just how advanced the Fed cloaking tech was during the Enterprise-B period in question... interesting.

Yeah, Starfleet would have found the Klingon BOP very easily. And yes, Federation was using cloaking devices. Most likely, with scouting missions, not in all capital ships. It is, as the video stated, an open and shut case.

"Risk is part of the game you wanna sit in that chair." Captain Kirk to Captain Harriman.

I mean no offense dawg, but you answered your own question. Why would the Federation be banned from using/developing cloaks *if they had not already done so?!* But I really, really enjoyed the deep-dive on the fate of "Black Sheep B" (as I call her, on account of her terrible luck making her the black sheep of the family), its a piece of Trek Lore that deserves a better look! I of course have my own theory on what happened to her, but that's a story that must be read to be found out! Excellent job as always!

@Mr_Sovik

23 күн бұрын

It is possible that any ban on use was preemptive.

@Relav1364

22 күн бұрын

@@Mr_Sovik It is possible... although it seems a little specific to be preemptive

@Mr_Sovik

22 күн бұрын

@@Relav1364 What is too specific?

@Relav1364

22 күн бұрын

@@Mr_Sovik That the Federation would be prohibited from using or developing cloaks. That would seem to suggest the Romulans deliberately leveraged a strategic advantage from the treaty negotiations. Its unlikely... but its not impossible either

I even like how the Ent-B has that half-ring shaped bow part, kinda mirroring the red half ring the Bird-of-Prey has mounted in front of its bridge, which houses the cloaking generators

5:33 I have seen pictures of those schematics but where could I verify their authenticy? 5:43 I wonder how that would work in terms of combat if both vessels were cloaked? Furthermore, you'd expect this technology to be employed in "Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan" given its more militaristic depiction of Starfleet. I mean, I have a theory as to what the USS Enterprise was up to between the first two movies.

2:53 Wouldn't it be rather easy to spot given the reason it crashed was it had all its power drained by the whale probe? I don't think a cloaking device is going to work without power. Also it's established quite well that cloaking devices work in air, so they don't HAVE to be in space.

Well, we don't see this excelsior II class ship too often. That is the reason we don't see it too often.

I actually wonder if the Excelsior transwarp experiment could have really been a cover for developing a cloaking device. This would help explain the apparent plot holes created by the Excelsior transwarp.

Me: *Enjoying the story of the least told Enterprise* Venom: The Enterprise-B is out there completely intact and completely dead. Me: *sad existential dread noises* Edit me that’s had time to ponder: It went out in a filler episode, not an action-pact double parter or a movie, but a random filler episode.

I don't think you are ranting. I have been in law enforcement for 30 years and a majority of them as a investigator and I think you put together a great case for it having a Cloaking Device.

This is extremely likely that it had one. You make excellent points. Though, in Generations, it probably didn't have one as it wasn't installed until Tuesday.

I would love for a future Star Trek show to explorer the fate of the Enterprise B, I think it would make for a cool episode.

Ok, i'd say that Enterprise and Enterprise A may not have been using the romulan cloaking device after the episode where Kirk stole it from the romulans but that may have been because they had given the device to research and development to study it. I could agree that the excelsior ships could have used them but the Enterprise A was not equipped with it - or saving Kirk and McCoy from Rura Penthe would be easier AND the battle against general Chang would be more eaqual with both ships being able to cloak.

I still don't think that the Federation used cloaking tech... First, in the Pegasus, the Treaty of Alergon was said to ban the Federation from" developing" cloaking technology. Not give up cloaking technology. It makes no sense to ban someone from developing something which they already developed and used on their ships. Second, it still makes sense for the Romulans, who prefer to play the long game, to prevent the Federation from developing cloaking tech in the future. So that they (the Romulans) would have an advantage over the Federation in the future. This is the same power that instigated a Klingon civil war to gain a long-term advantage over the Federation. Third, just because Starfleet captured cloaking devices, doesn't mean that they used them to develop their own. The Federation has obtained many pieces of tech which they don't use due to various reasons. Forth, it does not makes sense that the huge bulges on the Excelsior II secondary hull would be for a cloaking device. The cloak that Kirk stole fit into his arms and was installed on a medium sized console in an original connie. But 30 years later, the cloak and associated systems take up 10,000 times the volume? As a side note... if the Federation already had cloaking tech and then gave it up just so that the Romulans might not attack them in the future, then the Federation is far more stupid than they already look for signing that treaty. The treaty didn't stop the Romulans from trying to invade Vulcan or violating Federation space with impunity.

excellent video

Also the treaty with the Klingons after the undiscovered country, they may of had in the treaty the swapping of technology including the Klingons clocks

Lot of speculation, but fun assumptions. Supposedly, the Treaty of Algeron prohibited both the development and use of cloaking devices, emphasis on development. Regardless, very well put together video and makes for some very fun ST thought exercises! Would never say that she absolutely had a cloak, but possible. Keep vids coming, very enjoy your perspective.

Do one on the Excelsior variants you cowered!(I just want more Excelsior please!)

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

Did you not see this? kzread.info/dash/bejne/pWyp2bCKpbaomMo.html

@devilbub8709

23 күн бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I did, I'm just a slave to the Excelsior and mafia

I cant remember where i heard it (might have been in lower decks or picard s3) but it was said they took a while finding the bounty at the bottom of the bay because it was cloaked....

tbh for my taste you are often a little much protective of your head canon 😉 - while you put a lot of good thought into it, I have to admit that being said, this is one of the theories where I find myself agreeing with you. It is well researched, nicely argued and adds nicely to the universe. I often find myself hoping that you would spend a little more time on working in beta canon sources instead of dismissing them when you don't particularly like it, but whatever, I like what you are doing

@TheWoblinGoblin

23 күн бұрын

btw would be really cool to have a cloaked Ent-B being somewhere lost in the romulan empire

I thought, the ban of using cloaking devices for the federation was a preemptive ban. essentially, the romulans telling the federation: don't even think about developing cloaking devices. we know, you got your hands on them in the past. there is also the other situation, that the romulans would need means to control the ban of cloaking devices for the federation. why should for example section 31 actually care about this ban? most in the federation didn't know about section 31, they were really good at covering their tracks. cloaking devices would have been their go to tool to covertly do stuff.

I like the theory that due to its terrible maiden voyage, it was retired, and later relaunched as the Lakota.

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

ah we travel by night. certainly a theory

In my Star Trek universe, the Federation never agreed to NOT develop cloaking & phase cloaking devices. NOT having a phase cloak on every Federation vessel severely limits what Starfleet can do. Period!! I don’t need to explain myself further

The Federation's cloaking technology should be light years beyond Romulan or the janky stuff they sold the Klingons. I honestly don't see why the enterprise B, new version or not, and the rest of the Excelsior's wouldn't have cloaking devices similar to the Scimitar's perfect cloak. And the Bounty was on display at the museum in Picard. Along with the K'Tinga class battlecruiser that the Klingons gave the Federation on the signing of the Kitomer alliance.

You've proven that Starfleet used cloaking devices in this era. I might still attribute the change of shape of the engineering hull to a desire to improve the shape for warp travel efficiencies and to protect the deflector. The idea of the Enterprise B floating in space with a dead crew is chilling indeed! Certainly not impossible as several episodes of TOS touch upon the likelyhood of alien pathogens or unknown phenomena acting as a disease in that show. Just three years! It would stand to reason that for all the filtering mechanisms and doctors, starships in normal operations might have to endure multiple outbreaks in their operational life, and suffer even more when operating at the frontiers. I would certainly prefer a long serving Enterprise B that comes to an unlucky end over getting blown up soon after launch! Although the B might have been ended by getting ceremonially blown up by Starfleet as opposed to just floating endlessly. Just depends if it could be found.... Starfleet being unable to detect a derelict, submerged BoP (with a probable tank of antimatter on board) near their headquarters, for decades? Yeah, ridiculous. Captain Harriman did seem to have some issues of confidence. Starting out with a publicity cruise that sort of turned into a semi-no win scenerio, with Kirk almost literally breathing down his neck, and then Kirk apparently dying on his watch, not a great way for Harrington to begin. One might wonder with some ill=fates and maybe scandal on both Enterprise B and C, if THAT was the reason for Starfleet to hold out for twenty years on an Enterprise D? Maybe fame and prestige inherent in a name might sometimes be a poisonous thing? That might have had something to do with it, although holding out for a Narendra Class Enterprise, and then waiting longer for the Galaxy class doubtlessly was part of the reason.

I believe the uss ingram ncc 2001 had a cloaking device but Starfleet said the ingram class ship never existed

One issue is that trekyards interviewed the guy designed the B said that the extra umpulse engines were supposed to be a working transwarp

Interesting how the cloaking device stolen by Kirk (TOS) looks like NOMAD.

Imagine just chilling on yiur ship and suddenly a ln excelsior appears. A tiny bird of prey is one thing but a guant battleship is something that requires wearing the brown pants to work.

Only seven minutes in. I seem to recall one of the comic series dealing with the time gaps between the TOS movies had the Excelsior equipped with a cloak.

The thing is that the cloak device from the Enterprise B was only marked to be installed on Thursday.

One should never underestimate the Federation. You think the dark void of space is full of unknown things, & other races who would shoot up your ship as look at you…look at what the Federation can do, once someone ticks them off!! Then, it’s no-holds-barred…

New sub. I'm new to YT. Worked in Hollywood for decades. Would love to have you on a panel sometime. Did Trek Central KNOW you were doing this vid? I had friends take an idea for a video I'm making. I had to have surgery, so it went on hold. They made a video. Missed important parts, and broke something. I think I'll still do my video, when I am able to. Like I said, would love to have you on a panel sometime.

@venomgeekmedia9886

23 күн бұрын

Not unless their telepathic

One thing , isn’t the treaty worded the Federation can’t develop cloaking tech ? Not simply can’t have them . This could or does suggest they don’t have it