I really like the SIG SPEAR but i think this was the more forward looking rifle - longer barrel - less pressure, lighter ammo etc.

@ghostmourn_alt

2 жыл бұрын

Considering fighters will have to carry more weight in 6.8 ammo vs the .556 ammo the poly ammo is a huge advantage. (It should get more consideration moving forward.) Maybe the Airforce will end up leading the way, again.

@patricofritz4094

Жыл бұрын

@@ghostmourn_alt Textrons as well . They are the forward designed ones . Also I don't see how soldiers would carry guns that are heavier and heavier ammo . Right now soldiers need their weight lightened especially since it would take some time for exoskeletons to come in the picture . The XM5 and XM250 will probably crash and burn soon . Might not last full production beyond initial production . Might not go to the 10 year contract .It would be better to wait for Textron's prototype 2 / further models of their ct weapons before mass producing Sig's . The US Army is having a hard time getting IVAS . Why should it matter to get something lesser like The xm5 and xm250 ( the ar is good I guess tho ) . Speaking of IVAS the U.S. Army is throwing a lot of effort behind it why didn't they relentlessly pursue other advanced equipment like Textron's NGSW and even TV's NGSW ? I thought they were going for 'advanced ' 'overmatch' . Like the NGSW Fire control optics as well . Anyways the U.S. Army has got something good . Hopefully they can do better later on

@ChiquitaSpeaks

Жыл бұрын

Y the concern with less pressure when the gun is designed to handle it. You have to meet those performance targets somehow plus with the back n forth system for using different ammo for training vs the field I don’t think it’s all that big of an issue

@ChiquitaSpeaks

11 ай бұрын

@@Riorozen the 5.56 didn’t have enough energy at range that’s why it was replaced. I’m already a bit hesitant to respond to anybody with such a long response 😒…I don’t think there’s any loss for accuracy with this round it’s only gaining performance at range. If one bullet of this can carry the same effectiveness as (to put it loosely) 2x 5.56 rounds then it balances out…this is even more realistic at range. Marines have made videos stating how in their experience many times one shot of 5.56 just wasn’t enough. I like when military ammo matches consumer ammo for reloading so that’s pretty much how I feel about polymer. But yea any issue of less ammo I believe is addressed by ammo effectiveness (of course you have to maintain suppressing if your bullets do less damage and don’t reach as far.) I’m in favor with you regarding the bullpup. Increasing the weight should make it able to withstand the extra power just fine, I think our modern rifles will find this the least of issue, but by simply balancing the weight distribution could’ve effectively made it feel lighter. I’m pretty sure America still has their immature stigma about bullpup being non-American. Other than that im going to just give the nod to the engineering ppl that made these systems that they knew how to make them hold together. Also (kinda against what I stated before) I believe the steelhead ammo will be used in pretty much all cases including training as the military has the money, if not I think it’s for in cases of long range applications (🤷‍♂️ with your concern that would mean traditionally mean less wear on the weapon). I’m almost sure it is all steelhead bc it is lighter with shaved out brass to make weight compared to heavier thicker high pressure brass cased ammo. Either way they seem to have it figured out how they will train to utilize the ammo effectively (I also like how this translates to the consumer/ reloading market). See now my response is near to the length of yours 😀 so it all worked out

@ivaniuk123

5 ай бұрын

What was the weapons weight?

The Garand Thumb video gives me hope that a release is in the near-future. What a cool rifle. 🤞

@boygonewhoopdataZZ

3 ай бұрын

It better be good because the Black Rain's is expected to come in at under 2k for a full aluminum receiver.

@boredgunner

2 күн бұрын

@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Isn't that just an AR?

If it comes in .308 and isn't 8k, this could actually be a really cool rifle.

@voiduprising290

2 жыл бұрын

6.8x51mm, apparently. Claims to be 20% more powerful than 7.62x51.

@quakethedoombringer

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like if the manufacturer wants to rake in profit, they will make civilian version in more conventional bullets (steel, brass instead of polymer) and caliber (556 and 762)

@ruthlessrubberducky5729

2 жыл бұрын

They also sell polymer versions of 308

@user-sg6zh6vr7h

2 жыл бұрын

apparently 308 and TV 6.8 can be interchanged in other weapons like the M240 or the Minigun with a simple barrel swap needed, so a 308 version of this rifle shouldn't be too hard

@2ndamendmentmf366

2 жыл бұрын

I don't give a f I'll pay take my money

Don't go TV, don't let Sig win the civilian market. Bring this to fruition, at the very least the average civilian will (hopefully) see what the government didn't and adopt this as widespread as the AR15 is over the course of the next decade.

@Banefulailment

2 жыл бұрын

Not gonna happen my dude this will be a niche rifle at best

@thomas-son9281

Жыл бұрын

For the price point of this rifle it will never replace the ar15

@Shit_Bird

4 ай бұрын

LOL what’s wrong with SIG? The MCX platform is one of the best on the market, you should be grateful civilians are getting military grade hardware.

@FireCampSecurity

2 ай бұрын

I'd save my pennies for this. Even a poor can save for a dream.

2025 on forgotten weapons.

@JourneymanJacob

Жыл бұрын

Okay boomer, keep shooting your 1911’s

Well i´m not having to wait 10+ years until Forgotten Weapons gets one of these to see what its like on the inside.

Looks like they used a magnetized buffer (or counter weight) in the recoil system. Very cool

Great engineering, great team, best round design. 1/3 the weight. Great handling. Old won't let go. TV, you have an excellent product. Should have won. It's similar to the yf22 and yf23 battle two decades ago. Yf23, excellent engineering.

@florious80

4 ай бұрын

Interesting enough, Japan is adopting yf-23 so the same may apply here, where they went with one platform, but the other platform will get another chance elsewhere. I’m hoping the civilian market can give it a boost.

i hope these guys win. clearly the better gun, but especially ammo.

@CRC-1904

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, while I like Sig’s Rifle & LMG designs, they’re still too heavy - A LOT more heavy than the current M16s.

@malone005

2 жыл бұрын

Spoiler: they lost Sadly

@CRC-1904

2 жыл бұрын

@@malone005 Why tho? ☹️

@wolfyys

2 жыл бұрын

@@CRC-1904 Army likely selected the Sig due to familiarity; A bullpup was always going to face an uphill battle due to this.

@danielsnook7362

2 жыл бұрын

@@wolfyys which is sad cuz the spear has no chance in hell at piercing modern Russian body armor. I guarantee all the Russian casualties in Ukraine are from limb damage or wounds to the neck or face. The sig Sauer spear won't nearly have enough velocity to make up for the short barrel and the high pressures plus the tiny ass mag

I didnt expect this rifle to win. I had a feeling that the sig would win, its not very different from the m4/m16. But all in all i was rooting for this. This design was brave. If they bring it on the civilian market, i may consider it for hunting.

@rowangallagher4579

Жыл бұрын

Nothing confirmed, but it sounded like the people testing this preferred it, hopefully there’s some limited adoption of it like the US did with both the p90 and MP7.

@thomas-son9281

Жыл бұрын

You’re going to pay 8k for a rifle you hunt with 4-5 times with a year?

@temwananinkana3419

Жыл бұрын

@@thomas-son9281 i cant help it. Im so drawn to it.

DOD is actually mentally incapable of making proper decisions. This was the clear winner IMO. 19" barrel with the potential to really take advantage of the 6.8x51 round. Although i really doubt these will be priced competetively.. It is most certainly in the #1 spot for my hope to buy soon list. Looking forward to buying this for 2500 or less 🤔

@bearjam5372

2 жыл бұрын

Hope that's what it'll be priced

@Maniac742

2 жыл бұрын

I want a bolt gun in this caliber. It'd be a hunting dream rifle.

@Tacet137

Жыл бұрын

The SIG is 8k, so good luck m8

@anonypersona3189

2 ай бұрын

Sig is way more expensive than 2.5k and you know how the military operates - the cheaper gun wins. This will be closer to $6k or more.

The Sig is going to prove to be too heavy, too big, and not allow soldiers to carry enough ammo. The RM277 also had the superior suppressor.

Can't wait to see this on Forgotten Weapons

Very interesting, but needs caliber interchangeability because the 6.8 cartridge is not prolific at this point in time. Having options to switch between the 6.8, 6.5 creed, 6mm creed, 260rem, and 308 would be the best for getting the civilians to shell out about 2 - 3.5k for a rifle. Doesn't necessarily have to be as quick as the MDR, just somehow end user serviceable.

@zelenisok

7 ай бұрын

This in 6.5 creed (or maybe 6.5 grendel or 6mm arc). Recoil as low as 5.56, with TV casings the ammo light weight as 5.56, but much more effective than even 7.62 - more range and retained energy. That could become a standard issue rifle in the UK and other NATO countries, replacing their current 5.56 and 7.62 ones.

I want one! It would make a fine addition to my collection. 🇺🇸

I love this gun I know there's talk about other calibers and assuming 308 is already happening I kinda want to see a barrel for this in the new sig round, just to cover all the bases of potentially available military rounds, still wish yall would've won

@wilemelliott

2 жыл бұрын

The Sig round probably isn't going to happen. Their chamber pressure is at 80k PSI to get the velocity required out of a 13 inch barrel [the military variant]. The TVC keeps it around 60k PSI, which is around the same as 7.62 NATO

I was really hoping to train with this rifle and ammo it looks awesome!!!

This thing is badass. I hope it don’t end up being forgotten🙏🙏😂

Would buy in a heart beat

0:18 SKS, VZ58, AR18, MCX: Hold my brass.

Please say the suppressor will also be for sale 😬

@mikesmith379

2 жыл бұрын

So weird to see Delta P show up on this, they are so invisible online you'd think they were out of business.

Nice! I’m definitely warming up to bull pups.

Given how the Army has been systematically buying SIG MCX rifles in various configs and whatnot, it can be called into question the credibility and even legality of their choices, as in ' how OPEN werethe competition(s)' and in particular regarding the NGSW competition. For starters, the Army is averse to new and improved, hence why they chose big, clunky and stupid... a heavier rifle, heavier round, huge recoil especially when the ACTUAL army round comes into play. Guys like Chris Cappy from Task and Purpose who was fortunate to test both systems realized how powerful but also how much kick the 277 Fury round had. He never mentioned it with the Amicus because it was compensated by the proprietary recoil mitigation system and also the Amicus, because of it's hybrid open bolt/closed bolt system, like a SAW, is far cleaner and far easier to operate and clean. See it as how the M27 IAR OUGHT to have been. I am glad these forward thinking designs and companies exist and these weapons, though expectedly costly to manufacture, should see their light of day in the commercial and, why not, as an XM5 competitor for the foreign markets who might rather choose the TV round to the Sig one... Long shot, but I have my doubts this XM5 will ever see wide adoption because sooner or later it's drawbacks will overcome the advantages and the Army will be stuck with an M110 replacement instead of a widespread Army rifle... I think in the long run the Amicus will be vindicated and when more and more reviewers get their hands on both, the more the public will become aware of how wrong SIg's choice was...

@danielpollard26

Жыл бұрын

I was not expecting to get hit in the face by a wall of text today but you do make very good points

Best looking Bullpup rifle I have ever seen tbh. I hope they manufacture a good civilian model.

2025 forgotten weapon.. it will be cool if adopted in other markets

Is there any update as to when this might be available to order?

When you finally make this available, it will be my very first rifle to own. Come on guys, this is the people's rifle. Get a move on and make this happen.

Now this, this puts a smile on my face. Ever since the competition was made public I was advocating for the GD bid. It’s sad that they lost as this truly was the most forward thinking design. Even as a lefty, with this thing likely spitting casings in my face, I’d prefer this (which wouldn’t be the worst thing since it’s cool plastic). After losing I never thought this would enter the civilian market, and I will be getting one of these without hesitation. Who knows, maybe some spec ops branch will find a use for these, and we’ll get to see them show their full potential.

@neutronalchemist3241

4 ай бұрын

You can see in the various clips the rifle ejecting both sides. Don't know the operations involved in changing ejection side, but mind that Beretta had been involved, and their ARX has it instantaneous.

I'd love to have this

I've always wanted a bulpup rufle, and frankly, im already setting aside money for one of these eventually

The army wouldve saved so much money with this thing

When do yall plan on dropping this? What's the price point, similar to the Tavor 7? Will it come in 308? And finally will the barrel length be 20 inches or so without the soda can suppressor lol.

ill buy three, thank you

Is there a disassembly video? Any info about internals?

So, what are the odds of these hitting the civilian market at this point?

I hope to see this with 6 mm ARC polymer rounds, preferably with 27-30 round mags. performance wise it actually looks better than SIG but having a slightly smaller round should do even better for the recoil management

Hopefully they drop it without the suppressor and at a manageable price. I want one really bad.

Spongbob meme: I NEEEEEEED IIIIIIT

So is this going to be a limited run? I’d love one whenever it comes out unless it’s like 5k+.

So.... uh.... we getting this? Its 2023 and no word. Really looking forward to a good bullpup in this market. Yall are missed.

If the idea falls through, is it okay to make composite materials versions of the .277 SIG Fury? Also, should the idea be realized, can the bipod be an option to buy with the rifle?

Battlefield & Call of Duty Favourite Rifle

Wow 😳

Same system but in 5.56 would be practically zero recoil and a very light fast handling gun.

Get this release to commercial market

What about its muzzle velocity? Isit true that it can deliver 3300 fps (1000 m/sec)?

if they plan to sell this at a price that is more than the Kel-tec RFB, or the Desert Tech MDR, then it better do all what those do and better. Basically have a 308 Winchester (among others, as well) option and accommodate left or both handed users (easily switched to either handed user like Desert tech's gun or ejects in a direction that is beneficial to both handed user like Kel-tec's gun). Also, I heard the release date and price was suppose to be announced at shot show this year, which I think is done and gone; where is that (as in the release date and price) at?

Do we have a release or price update?

Looks like you will have to make your case in 227 Fury shape, but in polymer

@ironmatic1

2 жыл бұрын

It won't be able to handle the 277 Fury pressures. The design relies on a 20 in barrel instead of absurd chamber pressure.

why is this no longer on the website or being advertised as a future product ?

When will it be available?

When will this be available?

SIG Imma let you finish, but the GD-TV Bid was one of the most compelling of all time.

Yah this is it boy, I def prefer this design to the sig and my question is does it have a quick change barrel? If so the ticket would be to offer different calibers since it’s hard to get our hands on 6.8 and I would honestly prefer a 6.5 especially to see how it would behave on this platform. I am sure I’m not the only one who is thinking that either hint*

Unique. I like unique things and thought about getting one. But I got more better things to spend my money on than spending on an expensive paperweight just to show off.

Did they show up to shotshow, bc I havent found any footage of them, their social media is a ghost too.

Recoil mitigation system looks like something out of AEK-971

I take it this is still available for contract purchase?

Can you make a sporter grip version for those of us in ban states

This should be the winner

Our troops should be carrying this rifle!

When you lose the military trials: *off to the civilian market!*

This gives me project SPIW vibes. Looks like the rifle equivalent of a Lamborghini.

Did this come out yet?

I like how unlike the XM5, this went to a longer barrel. That’s a good decision. But does this convert for left handed firers?

@rijoenpial

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it does... The left side of the Amicus has an ejecting port that can be converted for lefties.

bring to civilian market please, i speak for many being tired of ARs

Can you do a conversion kit for 308?

Is that a Delta P Designs Brevis can?

This was in my opinion the best rifle option. I feel a huge chunk of their failure came from their LMG offer which really was the weakest of all of them. The Spear is turning out to be like the p320. Over promised and full of issues.

All indications are that the 2 rifles were neck & neck. The 2 big factors that killed the Amicus were its uniqueness. The Army brass is hesitant to go out on a limb with new ideas. This is why we have kept the M16/M4 for so long. And keep in mind the M16 started off as a US Air Force Rifle that the SF got their hands on. For another example, look back at the adoption of the M-14. It was the shortest-lived main rifle the US Military has ever adopted. The Amicus Rifle is a bullpup rifle which means it is new and scary for people who don't like new things. Add to that it has composite Ammo. Compar that with the rifle the Army selected. It is an over pressured AR-10, with metal cased ammo. No imagination needed. Bigger = better with no scary decisions to make. If past is prelude, after spending a ton of money, in 10 years the Army we will go back to a lighter shooting rifle because the new rifle will prove too difficult to control in automatic or rapid-fire applications. But the brass will never go back and chose the Amicus, because that would be mitting their mistake.

@Sevisstillalive

2 жыл бұрын

More " Nato" countries also switching out of Bullpups I've heard ( not sure if true) I personally love the Tavor I have and the DT MDRX. Just love bullpups

@deejay1534

2 жыл бұрын

The Amicus being bullpup isn't a scary thing. Look at history, countries who have historically chosen bullpups are straying AWAY from them because the only benefit is longer barrel and shorter OAL. Triggers suck, that's just how mechanics work. Ergos leave much to be desired. Reloading is objectively slower due to biomechanics. France instead of renewing the FAMAS rifles with a new contractor after the original factory went out switched to the Hk416 instead. New Zealand distched the AUG for the LMT MARS. Belgium never adopted the F2000 widespread and instead stuck with the SCAR. UK SOF to include the Royal Marines all prefer to use C8's over the L85s. Israeli SOF use M16's more than their Tavors. Even China's latest AR, the QBZ-191, goes back to a traditional design over their previous QBZ-95. When the various world powers and elite SOF units all ditch their bullpups in favor of traditional rifle designs, what does that tell you about bullpups?

@Sevisstillalive

2 жыл бұрын

@@deejay1534 That owning one is fun to shoot and a different experience.

@Sevisstillalive

2 жыл бұрын

@@deejay1534 The the military regards, yes SF uses m16 etc but why does the IDF use the tavor ? If m16 are cheaper more accommodated?

@deejay1534

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sevisstillalive IDF conventional forces use Tavors because it's an Israeli design that is compact. Plain and simple. Its a short gun that gives their average troops benefits of a bullpup but largely because it's made in Israel. Their SF like Sayeret Matkal and the various other groups use ARs like cuztomized M4s simply because it's a more ergonomic platform. More parts interchangeability, you can change the role of an AR simply with an upper swap, it's quicker overall. To SF, that stuff actually matters. To the average soldier who probably won't ever have to worry about seeing combat, the Tavor works fine.

This gun should have won

5.56 version with OAL of 26" please.

Any updates on this?

When are you guys going to allow me to buy the amicus??

The polymer ammo is cool. Need to make cheap rifles to distribute it.

It’s 2024 and we are still trying to make the bullpup a thing.

I want to see a side by review by a unbiased source while I don't believe sig cheated in or won unfairly I'm curious if possibly cost whould have of manufacturer whould have been the reason it won or this rifle was too unique.

@DD-hz3ts

2 жыл бұрын

Their problem is TV is run by clowns that advertised for 9 fucking years about this "high quality inexpensive polymer cased ammo" that was "ready to deploy and with production lines that fit in a shipping container", but COMPLETELY REFUSED CIVILIAN SALES where this could have been refined and matured to under $0.50/rd. It costs *$3.50/rd* for below M80 ball performance 150 gr FMJ TV .308. SIG's round at least had actual better performance for its expense.

@calamityhex3729

2 жыл бұрын

@@DD-hz3ts Huh what a weird decision. Especially as seeing as making a light weight and more efficient and cheaper round sounds a God send for the civilian market.

@DD-hz3ts

2 жыл бұрын

@@calamityhex3729 if they put this stuff on the market even just 3 years ago they would be swimming in cash and the CPR would easily be under $0.50/rd as it would directly replace the steel case market They didn't because they never cared once about commercial/civ market until just right now when the US mil dropped them We are their golden parachute. Compare this to SIG who immediately announced .277 even before winning and they've at least set aside production for civs from the get-go TV earned the L they got, 100%. Conversely SIG earned the win They always had both civs and the end user in mind which is why they also made hybrid case 7.62x51 and 6.5 CM as backups It could even be possible to hybrid case .300 BLK or other rounds and get basically light .308 performance out of those

@calamityhex3729

2 жыл бұрын

@Dick Izzinya yeah you're probably right to be honest while I understand this project is ment to create a wepon to defeat modern body armor I still can't help but feel like sig is definitely milking the civilian market with its 7000 dollar price tag. Like of paper the spear is impressive but is it 7000 dollars impressive.

@bradenmchenry995

2 жыл бұрын

Nobody wanted a goofy ass bullpup in the army

This should have won

Can I buy this?

wish the army picked this bad boy :(

Where is this? Where can I buy it? What's the price? Is there a 308 win./7.62 nato option? if not, then is it in the works?

@MatthewC176

7 ай бұрын

Stop asking for .308 old worthless and outdated compared to this, you don’t buy this rifle to use bitch ass .308 in it

0:47 Is this a short recoil mechanism?

Will you ever make 5.56 ammo?

Now to get rid of the NFA so we can get the suppressor as part of the package.

Is it available for sell to the public…?

Ok but how much will it cost?

Very cool - but these will be "boutique guns" (which is fine, of course). With both the rifles and the ammo being "unobtanium" (especially the ammo) ... there's not much point in having one - other than bragging rights. Certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened ;)

@deterrencedispensed4780

2 жыл бұрын

Except 6.8mm has been out before, still used to day. If the numbers and what is talked about is true, then this rifle nor it's ammo will be shadowed away.

@jnmason6283

2 жыл бұрын

True Velocity readily sells the 6.8TVCM. Most likely a shitload more expensive than the 5.56, but still available. Although I am pretty sure it doesn't have the same specs as the military ammunition.

@baneofbanes

2 жыл бұрын

@@deterrencedispensed4780 this isnt any 6.8 that’s been on the market for a while.

Is this still in production or just a pipe dream now?

Best part about this is that once the price comes out, we know who's winning the bid. The MCX Spear cost eight-grand.

@tylerramuar7125

2 жыл бұрын

It costs $8000 because, unless I'm mistaken, it comes with a suppressor as well. But more importantly, the ones being sold now are first production rifles for those who are willing to pay to have first editions. Also, it comes as an SBR right now. The full production rifles will probably come as non-nfa, full-length rifles. The price will drop significantly, especially when it no longer comes standard with the suppressor. My guess is the rifle will be somewhere around the $3500 range, which is to be expected for a high-end AR-10, especially a brand new model like the Spear. To top all of that off, I would ALMOST guarantee that the SIG MCX Spear will win. Between weapon familiarity, cartridge manufacturing, and available parts, it's a no-brainer. And should SIG win the contract, it will become more widely available, which will also drive down the price of the civilian rifles.

@The_Black_Falchion

2 жыл бұрын

@@tylerramuar7125 Yes, but we also don’t know what’s coming in the Amicus package yet either. Likely not the suppressor, but we’ll have to see. But yes, you’re right, so we know the general price range of the MCX Spear, and can compare that to the RM277 as well.

@tylerramuar7125

2 жыл бұрын

This thread aged well, lol. Sig did indeed win the contract. It's all coming together...

@Banefulailment

2 жыл бұрын

It costs 8 grand because its a limited commemorative run they did the same thing with the m17/18 they have 2 versions and the only difference is cosmetic but the commemorative costs 2x the price i think we will likely see a mcx spear eventually come out around the 3-4k range which is still really high but when compared to a mcx virtus not unthinkable

Finally i can penetrate a home intruder's level 8 tanktop using the patented recoil mitigation system

I have those exact same gloves lol. :)

Is this what the Cronen Squall from MW2 is based off of?

@therandommemecat7738

Жыл бұрын

Cronen Squall is literally RM277

@rifkibaktirinaldo323

Жыл бұрын

dont think about my favourite battle rifle

@MatthewC176

7 ай бұрын

Yes, this is

If it’s not 8k a pop, and has conversions for 5.56 and 308; maybe

Needs to have the full grip guard like the X95....just because.

@ironmatic1

2 жыл бұрын

no

@LastNameTom

2 жыл бұрын

@@ironmatic1 yes

It’s been a year ……

I'm kinda worried if this thing can survive the mud test.

I volunteer as tribute to receive one in a giveaway 😉

uk should pick this up in 556 honestly

Great this available on civ market. Too bad not selected by DOD

Barrel so long defeats purpose of bullpup