For anyone still wondering. I’m on week 2 after the tendon repair and bone debridement surgery he spoke about. The first 3 days after were pretty bad, but on day 10 I can literally already feel so much relief. I’ll be getting my cast off this Thursday (13 days after surgery) and beginning PT. I’m very optimistic about recovery. After another 7 weeks, I’m doing the other as well. Doc expects full recovery after 6 weeks. I think the surgical methods have come a long way since this video was originally posted. I had 2 shots in my left elbow, and 3 shots in my right (last one being during the surgery on my left). I did get relief from the injections but they were only temporary, and lasted maybe 45-60 days each.

@jaguarreal9116

Жыл бұрын

Update please. By the way to other folks. Surgery procedures have not improved. There have been other procedures invented, like Tenex, which only debride (take out bad tissue). If you have a small tear, that might help. A 50% or more tear, open surgery in which they repair (repair means) anchor the tendon to the bone. Even then, the key to good outcome is to remove/debride bad tissue or it will (can) come back. There have been many studies that show near a 50% success rate after one year. meaning placebo group did about the same as group receiving surgery. The key is both anchor and good debridment. Even the Dr in this video mentioned "about" 80% success rate. Those are not good odds!!!! Plus success is defined as merely feeling better (not 90% good, bot 100% for sure). Thus if your issue is 1 yr or less, focus on very good PT. One that does not cause pain, and use that brace he talked about.

@Guii-nf2bt

11 ай бұрын

what your age you taled opioids for pain its was fast the surgery how hard was the pain before

Excellent explanation in short video covers, what to do and treatment, Surgery and recovery option. Please continue your contribution to for mankind.

Probably the best video regarding this issue

Clear and concise. Thank you.

very informative. Thank you, Doc

Thank you Dr. Very well explain.

John I had a tear many years ago and my elbow is now bent it looks quite arched when I put my arm out the forearm toward to elbow looks like bone is arched slightly now, my other arm is straight into the joint. Lately almost 5 years later my hand is now swelling up fatty like and seems like circulation. Can my hand swell up because I'm living with this tennis elbow?

I had procedure done. What is a good tool to help the tissue scaring to loosen to help recovery.

need help your opinion, I have tennis elbow got injured from construction job..3 months theraphy massage but still pain..do I need a surgery?

great information, thanks

Hi Doctor. I have an object in my elbow that moves around. It came from a car accident and it's been getting bigger. I don't believe it's a bone. How painful would this be to remove? It's free floating. Secondly, how much blood would I be dealing with?

Oh Lawd..... Waitin for surgery due to the rhuematiod arthritis effecting most of my tendons. Have taken meds n numerous steriod injections (to no avail)..... Hopin and praying this procedure works as the pain is insumountable, likened to an abscess, throbbing, hot, itchy n hellish. Thank u for this helpful video!

how many weeks after surgery the elbow is pain free and normal?

Sir I have a tennis elbow surgery one year back but it getting pain could you suggest me required medication exercise for that hoping for your reply

I just had fasciotomy surgery on my hand which is not in a straight position. I visited my physio therapist who recommended i visit a different orthopedic surgeon for a second opinion as i may need corrective surgery to make my hand straight again. I wanted to find out if this is possible? Please help

Hopefully allow it to heal?

Hello doctor finger transplant is possible I lost my right hand half trigger.

Doctor. How much does it cost

Thank You for your work

@gustavobarroeta6444

4 жыл бұрын

Lovely Video clip! Apologies for butting in, I would love your thoughts. Have you considered - Parlandealey Flexible Elbow Process (search on google)? It is a great one off guide for learning how to cure tennis elbow without the normal expense. Ive heard some pretty good things about it and my mate finally got amazing success with it.

Is the surgery here the Nirschl procedure? Looks like it. Heard good things of it. I'm due for it in this year. All conservative treatments failed. Had tennis elbow since 2014 from tapping on smartphones.

This is very helpful. Thank you.

@ldlalov

4 жыл бұрын

Great Video clip! Forgive me for chiming in, I would love your initial thoughts. Have you thought about - Mackorny Tennis Play Blueprint (do a google search)? It is a good one off product for Eliminating Tennis Elbow Pain without the hard work. Ive heard some incredible things about it and my friend at last got astronomical success with it.

How much does the surgery cost if you pay out of you pocket with no insurance. What's a ballpark number

Thank you for the info!😊

@mauronicolascanseco1643

3 жыл бұрын

I\'m not sure but ,if anyone else wants to discover how to cure tennis elbow at home try Freds Elbow Helper (do a search on google ) ? Ive heard some amazing things about it and my buddy got amazing success with it.

I had severe tennis elbow over the years (can’t pinch lift my phone. That bad) and I tried everything, until I tried a few things consistently for 3 weeks. . Use with your own risk. 1) Rest all activity including face pulls etc.. 2) Apply massage cream/oil and use a blunt knife to scrape the muscles connecting the elbow 2 times a week ( if you do it right and long even once is good) . If possible dig between the 2 muscles. 3) use a pvc pipe, nylon rope and a weight ( 5 to 8 lbs) to rotate weight downwards eccentrically. You can rotate up, but if your pain is a acute it is going to be tough. So, rotate up should be gradually increased. 4) massage the 2 muscles in the arm joining the elbow as much as you can. You can use a ball but fingers do a better job. Please note I tried the flexor and other tools. Nothing helped.

Can I sue my doctors for not giving me a brace and just letting it go all crazy as soon as Im done?

Which,country you from sir

Hurt my elbow last night fighting a suspect during an arrest. I can't even make a fist or lift my hand to my mouth or hardly move move arm past 90°. Getting an mri soon but have no idea of how this will work. Ice isn't helping except to numb the pain. Looking forward to getting the diagnosis and getting it better.

@astrosnappy

3 жыл бұрын

I hope you'll get better!!

@chrissilliker8633

2 жыл бұрын

I feel sorry for you as a cop in the united states if thats where you are from. They hate you cause Trump backs you lol

@tragicktragedyhaze8398

2 жыл бұрын

Officer sounds like a torn acl

simple solution is castor oil soaked PAD applied in the night on the pain area in the elbow.The pain completely vanished in 1 week ...I applied for one week in the night...Pain was so bad for me and now completely relieved

Thankful 💙

Where you located?

Thanks sir

I hit a lot of one-handed backhands, but banging my elbow was the nail in the coffin.

I most definitely need that surgery. Been suffering with tennis elbow for over a year now.

@_junney

9 жыл бұрын

I can only bend my arm halfway. Anymore than that and it hurts like crazy. I can't even touch my face.

@Truth1000.

9 жыл бұрын

pancakes562 I was there,could not lift coffee cup,and I was an athlete, I took the cortisone injection and immediately was 50% better,and 80% of the pain was gone. I waited 8 months with that pain. I recommend the injection and then a wrist brace with rest for a few months,no exercise or use

@_junney

9 жыл бұрын

AGUIRD1 I think I might wanna look into those shots before surgery. I doing bodybuilding/powerlifting and it affects the way I lift and can't fully bend my arm to do curls. I think I might need the surgery if the shots don't work :/

@Truth1000.

9 жыл бұрын

pancakes562 understand. I would def not do any reverse curls or anything in reverse grip,and no pull ups due to extended arm,nothing with the arm extended out past 50%, also driving with that arm.

@mikejonsson8821

4 жыл бұрын

End up having it?

If the surgery is not successful, how's the pain after those 3-4 months, worse or better? I have tennis elbow for one year, tried everything: rest, ice, physical therapy , ultrasound, Graston, tried also the Flexbar and got flares using it. I just had my third cortisone shot and will try therapy again for two months; after that I'm planing to have surgery. My pain is only 2-3 out of 10.

@justcaused6182

3 жыл бұрын

Are you okay now? Stretching a lot before exercise helps me.

Hello good morning ,Ill just asking if i can still undergo elbow surgery even though 14 years ago the accident happened?

@vanmasterflash7153

4 жыл бұрын

14 years...I'm screwed

Ive been suffering for 5 years , ive had 5 cortisone injections but cant have anymore due to my skin thinning , im waiting for surgery now

@mohamedbahadir6617

2 ай бұрын

Did you made surgery Please advise if you made it it is better

Is this the dude from mois meter ?

I've had this pain in both forearms for years. Can't even poke the extensor muscle or its painful. Wrists hands forearms all dead and painful all the time. Had mri once and saw micro tears ect ect and also emgs saying I may have amcarpul tunnel. So I'm at a lose as what to do or what to do first. Can't be out of work for a year straight but can't live like this anymore either. Can't work out, can't do anything I want or it gets worse.

@jaguarreal9116

8 ай бұрын

Any luck? See D. Badia in Miami, he has office in NY and goes international, good at tele-health. I suggest you find a chiro or PT who has certification in Active Release. See if that helps. TE pain is using the middle finger (with indes and thumb), i.e. lifting palm down. If it hurts to the press, I would guess you have nerve compression. See a Dr who specializes in nerve release. Plastic surgeons who deal with burn victim knows nevers the best.

@facebookmakesmesick

8 ай бұрын

@jaguarreal9116 No currently in stupid pain hard to even drive my car an turn wheel. Gonna ahve to take care of this all at some point but can't stop working right now so

I'll be consulting with a surgeon in a couple of weeks. I don't know if I can do 3 months of not working!

@massfrog

3 жыл бұрын

How did you make out? I'm going for surgery in a few weeks.

@adderrrr3

3 жыл бұрын

I had insane elbow pain for a really long time. What helped me was forearm training. I took up forearm training after seeing Jeff Caveliere (athlean X) talk about how unbalanced / weak forearms can be a cause of elbow pain. It changed everything for me. I specifically train the forearm extensor (which from what I have researched is usually a weak muscle in most people causing unbalances) There's a website that gives away a tool to train it (for free), www.forearmfreaks.com/free Best decision I ever made, I wish you best of luck!

I don't play tennis but I have similar injury

I had this surgery yesterday. I was not told about a brace, and I was told to have physio within the week. Why were my instructions so vastly different from these ones?

@mikejonsson8821

4 жыл бұрын

How’s your elbow now?

@jaguarreal9116

8 ай бұрын

How did the surgery turn out. Your surgery likely did not involve REPAIR, in which they anchor the Epicondyle to the bone. Anchor takes 6 weeks to heal, so need to do PT that does not damage the reapair. A lot of surgeries are simpley debridment in which they remove bad tissue, tissue that grows incorrectly and it causes pain.

I just had this surgery ,but did not get the splint you talked about ,is that something that varies from doctor to doctor?

@shaikhpapi2083

4 жыл бұрын

Berzilla how is your elbow now?

@Berzilla

4 жыл бұрын

@@shaikhpapi2083 you want the real truth ? My arm is better but not 100% ,they did both tendons ,the one on the top was very badly damaged ,the lower on the inside of my arm was not as bad and that one healed way better ,almost no pain or problems since the surgery ,the top tendon didnt turn out so well ,its better ,but I still have bad flare ups sometimes ,I have to say maybe 75 to 80 % better ,but because it was damaged so badly there was only so much the Doctor could do ,I have some good days with it but other times it still causes me problems and pain ,but with that I can say the extreme pain and swelling from working every day has gotten much better ,also the strength that was there before is not the same anymore either ,still have to wear a brace on my arm too and anti vibration gloves at work every day .

How long does the pain last after having tennis elbow surgery?

@Berzilla

4 жыл бұрын

A good 9 weeks or longer

I have super bad tennis elbow with my tendon popping on the elbow when I move my arm up and down even with Palm up

@makemorethings4016

4 жыл бұрын

How is it now

my physiotherapist said to apply heating on the tennis elbow is this OK or icing and what should be the preventation

@luisalbertodiaz8138

4 жыл бұрын

Lovely Video clip! Apologies for the intrusion, I am interested in your thoughts. Have you ever tried - Parlandealey Flexible Elbow Process (Have a quick look on google cant remember the place now)? It is a great exclusive guide for learning how to cure tennis elbow without the headache. Ive heard some great things about it and my old buddy Taylor finally got amazing results with it.

@pat250

3 жыл бұрын

@@luisalbertodiaz8138 no

It hurts all the way down to my fingers

I just had surgery on my right arm, tendon release and was told to keep using my arm as the pain allows and was given physio exercises 3 days after op. hope I'm not doing any damage? I am having the plaster removed in a few days.

@Barb61765

5 жыл бұрын

I hope you kept excercising it. that is what trains the scar tissue. I had my right side done in 2005. Exercised it from recovery. No issues.

@Barb61765

5 жыл бұрын

@Jr Ramir I just did range of motion, straight from recovery room. It hurt, mostly stretching feeling. I exercised with bandage on, then when it came off my surgeon moved my hand to my chest. I was in tears, but he said I had to break the scar tissue loose. This is what you need to do or you will have forever pain. That was my right side in 2005. The one I had with a different surgeon on June 28th, I had the arm moving great by two weeks post op. But then I got an ache, my peripheral nerve surgeon in Nevada, Dr. Tim Tollestrup, who took care of my lower extremity nerve problems, said he sees people who got their Posterior antebrachial cutaneous nerve buggered up during tennis elbow surgery. So I'm going to try a numbing block and see how it goes.

@Barb61765

5 жыл бұрын

@Jr Ramir He told me it was about training the scar tissue. Whenever you have surgery you will have scar tissue, scaring up is part of the healing process. Also it's about the blood flow. My surgery was basically taking the muscle/tendon off the elbow, cutting the damage part of it off, then reattach the muscle/tendon to the elbow. Movement also creates good blood flow, hence good reconnection of the muscle/tendon to the bone.

My tennis elbow pain generates from my neck. Idk how but it does. I would turn left and the pain on my left hand would go away. It's not like pain shooting down from my neck to my elbow, just the outer elbow area. I've had it for 2 weeks now and I think it's getting better, kind of.🤔. 1 more week and I'm going to a chiro.🤕

@jaguarreal9116

8 ай бұрын

how did it go. I would not do a chiro for nerve issues. You have a pinch nerve in your neck. With a little luck, injection will cure you. Reset and good a good PT with Phd

thanks you sir ..i need to buy the machine elbow.therapy

Tennis elbow is no joke..I'm a busy mom on the run..I had many flare up and didn't know what was causing my pain..Well i couldn't take the pain anymore so i went to my ortho and he explain to me what tennis elbow is.and fit me for a brace,OH relief that fast.I tried icing it but it seem to make it worse..I have tennis elbow in both of my arms..

@cillamoke

3 жыл бұрын

Did you have surgery? I have it in both arms, I've just had surgery on one. As soon as that's healed I'll have surgery on the other. Mine happened from repetitive lifting and gripping and at its worst my whole arms ached and I didn't know the cause was from my elbows. Avoid steroid injections, that can cause damage and make it worse

Hope I can add to the conversation here! From what I'm finding clinically, the onset of tennis elbow has much to do with subtle *neck dysfunction* . There are still clearly some elbow-specific issues that need to be addressed, but the neck may hold the key to understanding why the elbow becomes an issue in the first place. If anyone's interested, I have put together a simple video for my patients explaining the link and some basic exercises to address! Hope it helps! kzread.info/dash/bejne/lGZ4lY-ChqTgXdI.html

I work with my hands . So I have been told I need surgery. Is their anything I can do to. Push it off i can not be out for 3 months?

@drvimalnair9082

3 жыл бұрын

It's not that you won't be able to use your hand for next 3 months,you can start using it after 3 weeks slowly and steadily you'll return back to normal in 3 months,barring lifting heavy objects specifically wrist extension.

Gd work

I'm 13 and I've had it from going to the gym and having a bad form but if I got the surgery would it be bad for me

@davidsebastianvegas3534

4 жыл бұрын

Lovely video content! Apologies for butting in, I am interested in your opinion. Have you researched - Parlandealey Flexible Elbow Process (do a google search)? It is a great one of a kind guide for learning how to cure tennis elbow minus the headache. Ive heard some incredible things about it and my cousin at very last got excellent success with it.

@Steven-py1ko

4 жыл бұрын

Daniel4RealCuh that is exactly my problem I am 13 and have got it doing bad form doing bicep curls

I've had it over a year now. my job requires me to do repetitive hand movement at a fast pace. one doc told me rest or get a career change... easier said then done Buddy! I have a mortgage and lots of bills.. he didn't want to give me a cortisone shot. said it could mess my tendon up more..

@briannjoroge6588

7 жыл бұрын

DaddyPhatSanch Did you recover? Am dealing with the same pain

@miguelcardenas2413

Жыл бұрын

In the same train here .

question dr? why my orthopedic surgeon want put to me a cast in my left arm because i have lateral epicondylitis he said to me i need to rest that. if necessary use that for recover? i well understand my question. thanks

@Rhys-gv3ir

5 жыл бұрын

so your arm stays in a healthy position while it heals

Very nice. Succinct. Me likey. Thank you.

Damn this is too destructive proces

I will just tape it

Tenex procedure is the way to go

@jaguarreal9116

Жыл бұрын

It depends on the problem. where was you problem or pain? My pain is huge in the top of the forearm 2" wide 3" long, i.e. the extensors. I do have a tear at the Lateral Epicondy, but I think the forearm may be more scar tissue, looking to research a Tenex procedure for that. It is less invasive so worth a first try.

and to prevent this from happening from the start, is to wear a brace and do strength training all the time:)

@jaguarreal9116

8 ай бұрын

Although the strengthing my cause the issue. It is an over use injury! But more important, it is an over taxation injury. One day you do too much, or too tired, or just enough bad technique and the next momement could last forever.

Icing, acheflan cream, fisio.

I have spent months studying treating tennis elbow at home and discovered a fantastic website at Freds Elbow Helper (look it up on google)

I have spent months researching treating tennis elbow at home and found a great resource at Freds Elbow Helper (google it if you're interested)

hay qua

80% success rate? that's a VERY scary number. :D

@jaguarreal9116

Жыл бұрын

Bettern than zero and just gets worse, and atrophy...

@hawkintelligence

Жыл бұрын

@@jaguarreal9116 No, it's not. lmao. 80% is horrendous in the medical field. It means that they are literally practicing on you. :D

I'm investigating ways to treat tennis elbow and found a fantastic resource at Freds Elbow Helper (check it out on google)

Did he say ton fuck tennis elbow

Masterbation elbow is the correct terminology tennis elbow just sounds better

@fisherDak

2 жыл бұрын

🤣

Brace for three weeks? Run from them, they are not up to date. You have to move it from the recovery room for success!

@mudah5807

2 жыл бұрын

I have tennis elbow and spoke to surgeon yesterday. That's what he said, get back to work within few days since I drive for living and he said to get back to gym immediately as it will help the healing process. Watching this vidoe in confused now. Coz he didnt say anything about braces.

@Barb61765

2 жыл бұрын

@@mudah5807 He said to wear a brace after surgery in the video. I didn't. My surgeon had me move my arm, moving it right away. He said it helps the blood flow connect the tendon/muscle better back to the bone. Basically you are training the scar tissue as it forms. I had this surgery on both arms.

@mudah5807

2 жыл бұрын

@@Barb61765 thanks for the quick reply Barbara, I really appreciate it. Also may I pls ask within how many days after surgery were u able to drive? And did u start working out immediately? My surgeon told me I should be able to drive withing few days since I drive a truck for living. He also stated the surgery was only 5 mins. Prior to surgery how bad was your tennis elbow? In my case it's not painfull but my upper foremen area is always swollen and beefed up for the last 2 years. I tried prolotherapy,prp and trigger point injections and nothing seems to work. Thanks again :)

@Barb61765

2 жыл бұрын

@@mudah5807 I didn't drive for two weeks, but my first surgeon said that I could have driven in a week. I couldn't turn the car keys in a few days. When I say move, I mean straighten out the arm. Move the arm up to your chest and then stretch it out all the way. You want to work at getting full range of motion which took me 2 weeks to get to. Driving a big truck I would think you want to take at least 2 weeks off work. That would have been my case. I didn't have problems with my upper arm swelling. Have you had a MRI on your arm? The first time I didn't but the second time I did and The tear did show up in the MRI. That's funny that you say your upper arm is swelling and it hurts when you drive I assume? My therapist who is an amazing personal trainer and therapist told me of a guy that I was working with and I recommended my therapist to him, because he had pain in his upper arm when he drove long distance to work. My therapist said he had a strange condition cuz some people have where the muscle builds up too much. He worked with my therapist for a few weeks and lo and behold he didn't have the pain in his upper arm anymore. Is that what your experiencing? Just pain in the upper arm? Tennis elbow is on top of the elbow when you have your arm bent and 90° in front of you. That's where my pain was at for tennis elbow for both arms. The first one was so painful I couldn't even straighten out my arm all the way by the time I had surgery. The other arm the second time I had it I had a horrible ache on top of the elbow. My trainer/ therapist does online appointments if you want to meet with him before having surgery. Here's his contact info. rwilliams18th@sbcglobal.net Richard P.T., A.T. HCSF & Assoc.

@mudah5807

2 жыл бұрын

@@Barb61765 so I've had inflamation and swelling on the common extensor tendon area for the past 2 yrs. It all happend from extensively working out and over use I suppose. No, I dont have any pain maybe when I lift heavy weights the discomfort and further swelling occurs. All I have is swell by the extensor area. I did ultrasound and it started 2 partial 2mm tears by the common extensor tendon. That was taken year and half ago. The latest ultrasound shows minor tear and fluid buildup in area. I can't wear a bracelet or wrist watch on right hand as a notice the inflamation. I'm having 2nd thoughts to have surgery as it is not major as you might have had. The surgeon didnt look at any of my reports he just asked if I want surgery and said only 2 options either I wait it out or get the surgery. He made it sound like it's just walk in the park. But having had ulnar nerve surgery on my other hand I know that's never the case. I will for sure contact your therapist and see if i can book a session. It's just been over 2 yrs and I'm really frustrated of what to do. Thanks Barbara for taking the time to respond to me. It really means a lot. I will touch base with you on my progress. Btw how is your injury now?

I make all surgical instruments

I’m having this done in 2 weeks, it looks like a barrel of laughs 😬😬😬😬

@erikshen1107

3 жыл бұрын

I'm having mine in April. Sadly I've got more damage than just tennis elbow. 3 torn ligaments and other assorted damage. How did yours turn out? Thanks stay healthy

@Bendoverandgrabyourankles

3 жыл бұрын

@@erikshen1107 All good except I had some nerve issues from 2-4 weeks post op which is quite common. but it’s about 90% now so I’m definitely glad I got it done all the best.

@wasanreyad8516

2 жыл бұрын

Can you please share your experience , was it painful after the surgery? And how do you feel now is it much better?

@Bendoverandgrabyourankles

2 жыл бұрын

@@wasanreyad8516 feels super not painful at all. It recovers fast. I can do everything lift weights etc. Its probably 90-95% now. before the op it hurt brushing my teeth so big improvement.

He forgot to say being a nurse can cause tennis elbow. Multiple ways to get tennis elbow. Repetitive lifting people and other ways

Injections are rubbish had them for years or they tell you to change your job boring

Lol, i think im going to fix my tennis elbow. And i found out the problems is not the elbow. Everything is related. You need to found out the relationship between the organ's. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

@justkidding7264

2 жыл бұрын

None of those methods will work.but i found out my fix..

@justkidding7264

2 жыл бұрын

China town massage 💯💯💯

I'm investigating treating tennis elbow naturally and discovered a fantastic website at Freds Elbow Helper (look it up on google)

@cleojoychigamba5374

8 жыл бұрын

hi guys, the greatest results that i've ever had was by following the Freds Elbow Helper (i found it on google) - without a doubt thebest info that I have ever seen.

Do not have surgery it does not work!

@eric204

5 жыл бұрын

truth!

@Barb61765

5 жыл бұрын

Thats because its done wrong afterwards. I started exercising mine in the recovery room. Then bandage removed four days later and surgeon pushed my arm all the way up to break any more scar tissue loose. Then I had to exercise more. Like every waking hour for weeks. I went back to work in 2 weeks. That was 2005. I am having other arm done tomorrow.

Help me I'm from Palestine

Well, No surgeons in large Midwest city with a population larger than St. Louis. I was told a “Consortium” of doctors do elbow replacement, either full or hinged partial. It is wore out and start on ice & end each day on ice. Thank god I am left-handed although an automotive service tech who has Mastered my craft. Sitting here looking at 4 tool boxes that even though SnapOn would bring pennies on the dollar. My youngest will get them. There is a bad secret word that is a “Dog Whistle” as CNN I here say (Don’t watch the Idiots) you see, although I have had this pain get worse the last decade, at 62 and healthy, SSD. That opens the book of excuses!

Fuck letting a surgeon cut you open. If physiotherapy doesn't work, try using prescription growth hormone from an anti- aging clinic. As a last resort, stem cells would definitely be worth a shot. NEVER GET SURGERY!

@Guii-nf2bt

11 ай бұрын

are you idoot or not hgh is expensive 99% ppl on planet cant afford stem cells top why you are agaisnt surgery??

Very uninformative.