Stockfish finding an even more complex solution to an already beautiful problem is hardly "ruining the game"

@BigDBrian

Жыл бұрын

it's not a solution though, since it ends in a draw. But yes I agree, it's not ruining.

@whackygamer19

Жыл бұрын

@@BigDBrian black was losing, but ended up getting a draw, so it's a solution, just not for white

@WayneRoberts72

Жыл бұрын

@@whackygamer19 Yes

@rockmcdwayne1710

Жыл бұрын

But, when you look at it logically, attacking bishop straight away is not at all that complex move, no?

@bookle5829

Жыл бұрын

People keep saying there's a black pawn on a4.

Back over 60 years ago, even if a solution took 2 years to process, a faster computer released 1 year later could actually find the solution first. The transition to transistors changed everything.

@aggressivepvp

Жыл бұрын

@@hrsmp and knew that the transition will happen

@danielschechter8130

Жыл бұрын

@@aggressivepvp At least 55 years ago, when I was in college, everybody who was at all knowledgeable about computers knew that the technology was progressing so fast that next year's computer would render this year's obsolete. A teacher told us, tongue-in-cheek, that if you ordered a computer today (back then) and another in a month, the second computer would be cheaper, more powerful, and would arrive sooner. A bit of hyperbole, but illustrating the fast pace of development. This, of course, was long before microchips. Yeah, we knew it was going by leaps and bounds.

@ReasonMakes

Жыл бұрын

@@danielschechter8130 Thank you for sharing your experience with us :) I was born in 94

@tumunu

7 ай бұрын

It's very important to bear in mind that having faster hardware is only a piece of the solution. The equally big piece is figuring out how to write the software that allows a computer to play chess efficiently. I am a retired programmer who majored in Computer Science in the 1970's and I can tell you that the algorithms needed to do this hadn't been figured out yet. For example, when I was in school, we students were asked things like, how would you represent a chess position in a computer? How would you evaluate that position? Find threats? Discover attacks? Look several moves ahead? Figuring out newer and better ways to do this and more, repeatedly, has been a large part of the work! I also want to mention, for anyone reading this who isn't into computers, that hardware and software advances occur together. While transistors were a physics discovery, modern computer hardware is only possible with advanced software. As hardware advances occur it gives us programmers more time and space (i.e. processing power and computer memory), and then we come up with solutions that wouldn't have been feasible previously. So we then write more sophisticated software, which is then used to create even better hardware, and so on, and we also are able to make better chess algorithms. Bottom line: both are needed.

@btf_flotsam478

6 ай бұрын

I thought Moore's Law said computing speed doubled every 18 months...

My $5 says that Nelson got the puzzle from 200 Brilliant Endgames By: Irving Chernev, which has the puzzle printed without the a4 pawn 😅

@Dhrazor

Жыл бұрын

So there should be a black pawn on a4?

@irjake

Жыл бұрын

@@Dhrazor Yeah, which stops stockfish's plan in this video.

@axerity9212

Жыл бұрын

nelson apology video incoming

@multigamegamer

Жыл бұрын

yeap

@Leivoso

Жыл бұрын

Oh, thats silly, so the actual thing that was wrong was that one book (if thats the case, which probably is)

Yep, searched his name and found the puzzle. There is indeed a black pawn on a4.

@yashgupta2378

Жыл бұрын

Yes it is

@ElSantoDeMostoles

Жыл бұрын

Yep, Nelson messed up

@elmiraguth

Жыл бұрын

@@ElSantoDeMostoles "KZreadrs are ruining chess" 😅

@ElSantoDeMostoles

Жыл бұрын

The thing is that even in the original puzzle Stockfish finds a way to defend itself for 11 more moves than in the "solution" Instead of Bf7 it plays h5

@dimitriskontoleon6787

Жыл бұрын

@@ElSantoDeMostoles but in the page show have the line h5 too. Is longer safe but was not the main line of the puzzle

Hey Nelson, Several people in the comments say that Black has a pawn on a4 but is not shown here. That might be the difference. First time seeing this though.

@eksdee7377

Жыл бұрын

@Samuel Laufer the pawn is black

@tapiolouhi9047

Жыл бұрын

We are adding pieces to black to get white to win. Really funny 🤣.

@arthurrtang9670

Жыл бұрын

@@tapiolouhi9047 The actual puzzle had a Black pawn on a4. Nelson forgot to put the pawn on a4 when showing the puzzle. I have already looked it up.

@fangzhang9376

Жыл бұрын

@@tapiolouhi9047 That's not even rare in puzzles. I believe there is even a genre that is kind of the opposite, where white has to get rid of a white piece (while leaving everything else the same) in some complicated way in order to succeed.

@Umbrage0

Жыл бұрын

@@tapiolouhi9047 idk ive looked at my own pieces like "sweet Buddha i wish i could stab my own pawn"

There’s a black pawn on a4 in the original puzzle which prevents the queen idea

@Sameer_S_Kulkarni

7 ай бұрын

That would make the original puzzle flawless again...

@greenjelly01

7 ай бұрын

The pawn would have to be on a3.

@johnkirby3

7 ай бұрын

No, a white pawn would have to be on a3, a black pawn could be on a4.

@64MilestotheGallon

5 ай бұрын

@@johnkirby3?? There doesn't have to be any white pawn on the a file

@probablypeenuts

Ай бұрын

⁠@@64MilestotheGallonyeah, nelson did a lil mistake and didn’t put the pawn in the a file

If you’d like to see the puzzle and how it originally included a pawn on A4, the Arves Chess endgamestudy association has a whole webpage dedicated to the end games of Viktor Alexandrovich Evreinov

A white or black pawn anywhere along a2-a4 fixes this puzzle. (Edit: if the pawn is on a4, it has to be black, because a white one can simply be captured).

@GatekeeperDatuck

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that is a nice, simple fix to this puzzle.

@fs.jahahajjako8826

Жыл бұрын

so the youtuber wasted our time?

@johnp515

Жыл бұрын

@@fs.jahahajjako8826 He made a mistake. It happens

@GatekeeperDatuck

Жыл бұрын

@@fs.jahahajjako8826 It is a nice puzzle, and he shows the lines. I don't think it was a waste of time to watch this. The correction suggested above helps make the lines shown work properly, as imagined by the designer.

@a_ff1138

Жыл бұрын

@@fs.jahahajjako8826 It was a mistake. There was actually a pawn on a4.

You forgot to put the black pawn on A4.

@giovannip8600

2 ай бұрын

How he ruined (a) chess (study) hahahahah

@Chess Vibes the video that you made also has a flaw where there wasn't an A4 black pawn.There is a comment which said about this issue and I find out that it is indeed true.

Hello Nelson! Good news Victor Alexandrovitch didn't make a mistake. In his winning study he put a black pawn on a4 square. Take a look at the picture in Russian Wikipedia related to this person. So Stockfish still didn't ruin chess that much! :)

I let Stockfish analyse the game with the black a4 pawn and it is a win for white, but much more complex. Instead of playing Bf7, black plays h5 to create space for the king. From there it's a mate in 17 for white: 2. f7+ Kh7 3. f8=Q Qc7 4. Qf5+ Kh6 5. Qf6+ Kh7 6. Qh8+ Kg6 7. Qxg8+ Kf5 8. Qf7+ Qxf7 9. exf7 Ke6 10. f8=Q Kd5 11. Qd6+ Kc4 12. c6 e2 13. Qe6+ Kd3 14. c7 Kd2 15. c8=Q e1=Q+ 16. Qxe1+ Kxe1 17. Qc2 a3 18. Bc3#. So even with the black a4 pawn, this is quite a bit of an endgame and imo not really an elegant puzzle.

@mathis1493

Жыл бұрын

i aint reading allat

As a complete chess noob, pawn to F7 actually came to my mind first when I saw the puzzle, this is oddly validating lol

@DoNotTrustTheSVN

Жыл бұрын

Me too, i play on lichess (criticalcess123)

@plugshirt1762

Жыл бұрын

Lol same it seemed pretty obvious and as the video wen ton I accepted it as wrong only for stockfish to come back and say it was the right move.

What about: 1.Pf7 - black will attempt to stop the promotion by playing either BxP or Qc8/Qe8 2. Rg4 (discovering check from bishop, black king unable to move, so has to play Pd4) 3. BxP checkmate If black plays 1.... Qa6 then 2. Rg4 check Qxa1 3. Pxg8 (promote to rook or queen) mate

@RJSRdg

Жыл бұрын

And if black plays 1........ Qd6 (preventing the bishop from taking the pawn when it moves down), then 2. Rg4 check Pd4 3. Pxg8 (promote to Q or R) mate

I added the black pawn on a4 that was supposed to be there and stockfish found a way for black to delay it for longer.

My idea was that instead of moving the bishop to block, black can just move the pawn forward that is next to the king. if you check the king now, it can just move. There's no checkmate.

@marvinabt4964

Жыл бұрын

You would just take the Queen with your own new Queen next move with checkmate, as it's still under attack by your bishop and only defended by blacks King.

@raghavgupta5971

Жыл бұрын

Same

@JannPoo

Жыл бұрын

Black needs to move the pawn to H5 otherwise it would still be checkmate in 2 by white underpromoting to Knight. This does prevents checkmate for a while, but stockfish still says that it will be eventually checkmate by white since black still allows white to promote to Queen with easy access to checking the opposing King, while black doesn't.

@arthurrtang9670

Жыл бұрын

If you try h5 instead of Bf7 for Black, white goes f7+ and when Black moves white plays f8 = Q which looks very dangerous for Black

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@marvinabt4964 What is the queen under an attack from? Where is the threat to c6?

At 7:15 rook to G4 can be a checkmate as only move left is pawn to D4 and then white bishop to D4 is just checkmate

@PatoNumaBike

Жыл бұрын

I saw this too

@qybl

Жыл бұрын

the line keeps going from there, because blacks pawn D4 comes with check, and white will never have time to pick up the pawn with the bishop. I was about to comment the same thing, but then i found the check.

@feyrh3740

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, doesn't work because Pawn to D4 is check by the black queen, you'll never get a chance to check the opponents king again.

You got the puzzle wrong there is a pawn on a4

@rosiefay7283

Жыл бұрын

I haven't seen this problem with a full citation but could it be that it was first published with no bPa4, then someone found that ...Qa4 refutes, then Evreinov added bPa4 and the problem was later published with this correction? It often happens that a problem is published which is a correction of a problem published earlier.

@dimitriskontoleon6787

Жыл бұрын

@@rosiefay7283 At very least in the page the KZreadr show have Bpa4, and explain the line h5

there is supposed to be a pawn on a4 buddy

More like stockfish is UNREASONABLY good at using knights and queens, honestly. Their potential strings of movements/forks are just too complex for humans to grasp 30 moves ahead.

In my own self-analysis of the position I found h5 on move 2 of the puzzle which leads to a whole line of f7+ Kh7, f8=Q e3+, Kg1 Qc7, Qf5+ Kh6, Qf6+ Kh7, Qh8+ and white wins the bishop and presumably will go on to win the game. This is all assuming there's a Black pawn on a4, as in the original puzzle. I assume the original puzzle does have this line but it wasn't mentioned in the video and on engine analysis it's the top Stockfish line.

@last-chance8476

Жыл бұрын

Nah, instead of f8=Q on third move you'd play f8=N++

@isaakvandaalen3899

Жыл бұрын

@@last-chance8476 Aside from the emotional damage you deal from promoting to a Knight with check, this would be a game-losing blunder.

@last-chance8476

Жыл бұрын

@@isaakvandaalen3899 it's not check, it's check mate going by your previous moves.

@isaakvandaalen3899

Жыл бұрын

@@last-chance8476 Like I said, I checked stockfish and this is the top line. There is no faster checkmate assuming Black defends properly. Perhaps you're referring to a different position.

@LuMnOsITi

3 ай бұрын

Chess puzzles uses to be so scuff, stockfish really helps remove bias and nonsense from them and not leave intelligent people scratching their heads for hours.

The fault lies not in Stockfish, but ourselves. -- Shakespeare, probably

Something else, I think, depending on the skill of your opponent, is Pawn:f7, Bishop×f7 to prevent promotion, Pawn×f7, Queen:C8 to prevent promotion, Rook×d5 leads to Checkmate with the bishop. King can't move forward because of Pawn, can't move out of corner because Bishop covers the diagonal and Pawn covers the sidestep. It's obv not the solution since a better player would see it coming, but it's what I saw when looking at it lol

Stockfish is basically the repository of all seen possibilities and variations, as seen through the minds of every great player whom contributed recordable data...it's like the ability to compose wondrous music without ever sounding a note personally. Stockfish is the repository of the artistry, which exists within us.

@dinardinar2657

Жыл бұрын

Nope, stockfish doesn't use the repository of seen possibilities but basically tries every possibility and checks the success rate

@burtonaka___

Жыл бұрын

You come to correct a sentiment? Don't bother

@burtonaka___

Жыл бұрын

Maybe the analogy was there just for the hell of it

@burtonaka___

Жыл бұрын

It's like the idiotic axiomatic ponderous statement Morpheus makes about the Matrix....no body can tell you what the Matrix is....

@lucahighton7648

Жыл бұрын

@@burtonaka___ you write like a 12 year old kid. and you have no idea of how stockfish actually works

This guy forgot to place black pawn on a3💀💀💀

@hermit1428

Жыл бұрын

a4

@BobChess

Жыл бұрын

a3, a2 and a4 are all work

Thanks for the video and your videos in general! They're always fun to watch and also I like the old puzzles a lot, much more than "modern studies" which are often so chaotic that it's almost impossible to follow. In my opinion, this is really something which was ruined by computers - chess composers are no longer satisfied with one or two mindblowing ideas in one study but they want to put "everything" into one single puzzle so the lines get ridiculous, unmanageable and therefore boring (for me). I didn't believe that such a simple refutation could have been missed back then, so I checked it and the flaw is actually somewhere else, namely in the starting position because a black pwan on a4 is missing which is actually there in the original study (easy to google). So everything's fine with this great study :) Nevertheless, there are definitely old puzzles which turned out to be flawed by computers. However, many of these flaws can be fixed by slightly adapting the starting position, so I don't think that Stockfish really "ruined" it :)

It is mistake by chess vibe queen can’t go on a4 because in that problem there is black pawn on a4!!! Mistake by you .

I like how you can see the rubber duck chess board that he posts every day

It's not ruining. It's revealing. Revealing the flaws and maybe even hints of corruption.

Hi Nelson I think we can save this position by simply placing the pawn on a2 or a3 6bk/7p/2q1PP2/2Pp4/3R4/5K2/P7/B7 w - - 0 1

It should be a black pawn on a4. Wrong starting position of the study and wrong title of the video. Please correct.

f7 would've been my opening move in that position because moving the rook allows black's pawn to advance, blocking the bishop's diagonal.

@Mecryte

5 ай бұрын

I agree. Blacks only move that doesn't get mate in 1 is to move the h7 pawn

As others have said, this puzzle was misprinted. There is supposed to be a black pawn in A4, which stops Stockfish's idea. We all make mistakes.

Very interesting video and position. IMO Stockfish is the best and the worst thing that happened to chess. Computers are an amazing tool to improve and bring chess to a higher level, no debate, but at the same time, chess at top level is oftentimes drawish and boring. In the opening (and even middle game sometimes) you're not facing your opponent, you're literally facing stockfish.

@Champ_Swastik

Жыл бұрын

9:04😂

@angelmendez-rivera351

Жыл бұрын

Drawish doesn't equal boring, and people exaggerate the extent to which matches end in a draw. Most matches, percentage-wise, don't actually end with a draw. Yes, draws occur way more often now than they used to in the past, but that makes the game more interesting, not less. People are just looking for beauty in the game in the wrong places, because they don't understand what makes this game so amazing.

@benismann

Жыл бұрын

i mean that's the problem with chess as a whole. U know if it wasnt for stockfish, humans would found openings/midgames after years of research and we would end up in the same position

@angelmendez-rivera351

Жыл бұрын

@@benismann Exactly. Humans have already solved other games before too without computers. This isn't a problem with computers. That's just the nature of games. Ultimately, all board games boild down to just extremely complicated logic exercises that can be solved. Once you solve them, there's that. And ultimately, computers are just another tool for studying logic. There isn't anything particular special about them beyond their calculation capabilities. If Stockfish is a problem, then books are a problem too, by the same token.

Im having a hard time seeing whats wrong with the line starting with rg4. Any help would be appreciated :)

Am looking at this right? After 1. f7, Bxf7 Don't capture with the pawn, 2. Rg4 check, d4 3. Bxd4 mate.

@dianegrainger3905

Жыл бұрын

I missed 2. d4 is check.

Seems pretty easy to fix this as a puzzle problem. The solution works again as well if there is an extra pawn (from either side, but make it black so it seems more threatening) blocking the Queen's possible attack on the bishop. Or does stockfish find a new alternative?

5:11 I think the flaw is, if I were playing Black, after White's rook moves to e4, I'd move my pawn down to d4. This blocks the bishop's pin, and creates a queen's pin against White, since they now cannot move the rook to capture the pawn. Now, bishop CAN take the pawn, which gives it center board while regaining the pin, so from there I think the game might go differently...

@matus19971

Жыл бұрын

We are using the version he is using so we do not have a black pawn at a4. Now then, based on what you're saying I would go Bxd4. Now you're getting mated on next move so your best idea would be Qa4 attacking the bishop. f6 to f7 discovered attack check, you are forced to Qxd4. Rxd4. Now you're most likely gonna go Bxf7 and so e6xf7. Kg7, Rf4 protecting the pawn that is about to promote. Kg6 or h6 doesn't matter because you will get ladder mated by rook and queen. In case you decide after Bxd4 to move the bishop to f7 you get taken and your king cannot escape, meaning you have to Qxf6 check, which simply leads to you being taken by the bishop and getting mated. Unless I missed some other legal move (or made any mistakes, I am currently half asleep staring into my phone) that does anything in these situations I see it as quite hopeless.

@brucewillis542

Жыл бұрын

Yes the end game would go differently because you've just set yourself to be very quickly check mated after the bishop takes your pawn...

Looks like Stockfish fixed chess yet again.

Stockfish ruins chess for me everytime I analyse one of my wins.

There's a black pawn on a4. I believe you missed it?

Yeah, the biggest problem with great strategies is that for some reason the opponent doesn’t want to follow them 😢

I wonder what stockfish would think of moving the a4 black pawn forward before moving the queen to a4 (original puzzle had a black pawn on a4 according to someone)

Putting a black pawn on a4 or a white pawn on a4 solves the problem with this puzzle. Stockfish actually finds a bit longer line for black but still loses.

i am pretty new to puzzles, and this learned me, that not only the main figurs are important. also the pawns blocking the figures

I agree that it seems like Qa4 is a strange thing to overlook, especially since that simply adding a white or black pawn on a2 or a3 could possibly solve the flaw in the puzzle

@renerpho

Жыл бұрын

As you may have noticed (if not, read the comments), the original puzzle had a black pawn on a4. The reason why Stockfish could win the position is that it's not the position from the puzzle.

One day we will discover the last position you showed wasn't a draw...

I was legit so confused at why Nelson didn't explain Qa4 there cuz that's what I would have played as black, seems like its the flaw lol

I haven't checked this with Stockfish, but can't you get the intended effect if you start the puzzle with a black pawn on a4, or maybe a white pawn on a3?

@plugshirt1762

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that’s what the original puzzle is in this video he used a version that printed the puzzle wrong

Maybe there was supposed to be a pawn in a-line blocking the queen attack, but was forgotten to place there. White pawn in a2 or a3 or black in a4 or any combo of them would do the trick.

Also at any point Black moves H7 pawn the turn they figure the bishop would move. and check mate is no longer possible with that move set. So ignoring the queen take bishop there is still a vary clear stall that can happen anyways. I mean they could rush E6 up but black's queen takes it before promote. I found that trying to figure it out first so I figured I can't find checkmate because of the pawn move anyways. White doesn't have enough pressure to checkmate.

at 7:14 how do you stop Rg4? (you can go back a few secs to see what i mean/ a move or two)

@Rocky64

Жыл бұрын

1.f7 Bxf7 2.Rg4+?? loses to the discovered check 2...d4+.

“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” - Carl Sagan

Bobby Fischer turned 16 in 1959, did anyone ask him? 🙂

After Kg1, black can move the queen anywhere on the a file. Even h5 is better than Bf7, because it gives the king some breathing room! We thought we were so clever, but Stockfish has showed us how silly we are. 😄But still, an interesting puzzle. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I left this comment on one of the other chess channels. What the engines do today is look at every possible spot on the board for each piece and play it at a depth of let’s say, five or six moves. They program them to not be emotional but weigh out every possibility. They will even throw in a queen sacrifice and see if it works toward a checkmate. The best way to describe it is, Stockfish is five grand masters and each one is assigned pieces, then they brainstorm the positions, all in five seconds.

No one can deny this negative impact of engines on chess.... But about this particular puzzle.... Just after looking at it for a few seconds I found out that moving the queen to 'a' file is going to be a win for black.... This particular puzzle doesn't need any engine to prove it wrong... It's simple.

My 800 elo brain immediately knew how to solve this puzzle, I also just did not see the checkmate threat and thought "ooga booga attack Bishup" but I'm taking this W.

The technical term for this kind of thing in the world of puzzle competitions is a "cook". That it was overlooked (since the taking of the rook is not forced) shows only that the puzzle competition was not all that well judged.

Was the second place puzzel any better?

What about improving this puzzle by, for example, adding black pawns which will prevent the queen from moving Qa4?

@gregoryekisola7130

Жыл бұрын

In the original there was a black pawn on a4

it's crazy how if the king was in different spots, it would change the outcome completely (with a blk pawn at A4). M4=A 2,3. even at 5,7 M5 if b1. Draw at B2,3,4,8. M8-10 at 5,6,7. M4=C1. M5=C2. 4.8=C3, C4=even C7=60 for white. Losing on C8. M4=D1,2, M5=d3. M9=D6,7, D8 is winning. M5=E1,2. M7=E3. even=4,7 M5=F1, M4=F2 F3 is winning, M7=F4,5, even=8 M4=G1, even=G2 M5=G3, M14=G5 M5=H2, M4=H3,4. even H5. Everywhere else is losing. A,6,8, C8, E5,8, F7, G4,6,7. H1 (0.4),6.

I honestly would love to see a video of more chess problems run through stockfish

It occurs to me that after black moves the queen, white should move c6 to free up another diagonal for the bishop. With the white pawn holding the black king on row 8, the white bishop might be able to put the black king in checkmate. I haven't tried it out, so it may not work.

Nice reflection around this puzzle. Depending on the time at the clock at a late game most players would accept the "free rook" bait, so nice puzzle anyway.

To be honest , that queen move should be an intuitive move and some one should have thought of it. Coz if you have a threat from some piece then naturally you could think of attacking the source of that threat.

What about moving the pawn in front if king instead of BxF7?

the position is incorrect, you forgot to place a black pawn on a4

I found it instantly after you said there is something wrong in this position

At 7:15 what if you move your rook to g4 isn’t it checkmate or am I missing something?

@mmpro7787

11 ай бұрын

What if you don’t take the bishop with our pawn???

If the queen attacks the e pawn and checked the rook, just temporarily move the rook to g3 or g2 where the king is protecting it try to checkmate it

Maybe a black pawn on a4 was missing in the puzzle, which does prevent any possibility of queen attacking the bishop on a1.

Hang on, after bishop takes pawn at 7:14 isn't rook g4 mate on a couple moves? We cover the g8 square and it's still discovered check by the bishop on a1. Here's the position: Bishop takes pawn, rook to g4, pawn blocks on d4, bishop takes d4 and that's mate? Edit: Nvm didn't see that the pawn block is a discovered check by queen on white king.

Move pawn to F7. If bishop takes it you can take it with another pawn then queen will either block promotion of pawn or can kill bishop. If queen moves you can kill pawn using rook and it will be a check

I was thinking about pawn push a second after seeing position but i didn't knew it would lead to draw

I like how stockfish's line that started with the pawn was my first thought seeing the board

I think it would be interesting to play the position from the 07:45 mark. It looks like bishop to E5 is a good move for white since it is a big threat. Black may be able to avoid it with perpetual check, otherwise it looks like white will win.

I thought immediately when watching for the fist time that the queen should attack the bishop on that move. I was thinking further down the A file, though. I thought of it because that’s what I would do, as a first instinct, since I knew the pawn was still 2 miles away from promoting. It was the first chance the queen had to attack.

The instant I saw Bf7, I knew that black had to have other rational options. It took maybe another second to see that attacking the Bishop had to be good. I did not yet know that Bf7 failed, but over the board my first instinct was to attack the bishop.

For more than a decade, we got together with a group of friends for dinner almost every Friday. At some point, we realized that smartphones had changed the nature of our dinnertime conversations. Before, a topic would come up and we would discuss it earnestly, considering various possibilities and which alternatives were more likely and why. But once everyone had the internet in their pockets, a topic would come up and someone would look up the answer, and we'd have to find something else to discuss.

"If closer examination breaks something, then it was already broken to begin with."

one pawn in a2 should fix the problem right?

My question is knowing that Stockfish found this flaw, is there a way to fix the puzzle so it works the way it’s intended? I know it wouldn’t be the same thing in spirit but could the addition of a pawn at a2 (or something like that) prevent the bishop attack enough to allow the puzzle to run its course?

Stockfish stole my move

Maybe putting a black pawn on a4 removes that flaw?

Hey, Nelson. I have a question. Why can't Black move his h pawn?

“stockfish ruined an ancient game from 2000 years ago that people treat like a video game now”

Can't rook go get and then push the pawn? Plz someone answer

Question: pawn to f7, IF black takes it with bishop, then rook to g4, checkmate?

What about black pawn from h7 moving forward?

What if rook doesn't sacrifice? Instead Rb5 Then If black attacks bishop, rook takes queen, if black queen attacks bishop in another angle (h3 or h1) then Pc3 moves to c2, checking king, then queen takes bishop, white pawn take black bishop and promote to queen Checkmate Unless I'm wrong

Stockfish: Has ruined chess by finding a flaw found by no one the recommended video: Stockfish Can't Solve This Chess Puzzle 😮

How about moving the rook not to b4 instead of e4?

Seems like there's conflicting sources on if there's a pawn on a4 or not. Some pictures do show it, some don't.

LIKELY white P missing on a3 or a4. Then the puzzle plays out as you say without Q-a file winning for Black.

I also thought exchanging the pawns would be best play without considering the rook move.

If you put a pawn on a3 problem is solved so not a big problem?

I have a question what about rook g4 using that guaranteed check mate?

It is crazy because the solution that stockFish found as best is the solution I analyzed. Then when you showed the flawed solution I did a backwards analysis and found the flaw.

"That is something that would not have happened back in 1959" "How did nobody question this move...how was this missed"