Shalom al Yisrael 🕊️🇮🇱🙌🏻🙏🧿

Very interesting Thanks

What is missing in this presentation is identifying the narrative that motivates all those criticizing Israel post 10/7: The idea that Israel is an oppressive and illegitimate colonial power against which 10/7 was a morally acceptable and legitimate resistance. Every time this topic is discussed this idea and narrative has to be exposed as essentially BS. The main line of refutation is that Israel exists as part of the reshaping of the middle east by by post Ottoman European imperial powers, just as it was reshaped by every imperial power for the last 6000 years. The thing that distinguished this reshaping was its equity, forbearance, grace, and intelligence. Instead of adjusting to the new opportunities it presented, all of Israel's neighbors focused all their energy on destroying her. For 100 years this policy has been ruinous for Israel's enemies, and only periodically tragic and continually inconvenient for Israel and those who wish her well. To condemn what happened as the Ottoman empire broke up as somehow inhuman and uniquely unfair betrays a profound ignorance of human history.

@everythingandmore5537

Ай бұрын

Israel is doing genocide and ethnic cleansing and it's livestream all over the world especially through Tik Tok. Almost the entire world believes Israel is doing genocide and ethnic world. Majority of the people in the world has never seen a Jewish or an Israeli. What most people see is the country that flies the flag with the star of David is evil. This evil country calls itself Jewish. So anti-israel becomes anti-jewish. Every now and then somebody will say say is a zionist country. So most ordinary people become anti-zionist. So anti-Israel becomes anti-zionist and finally anti-jew or anti-semitic. Trump says Israel must spend money on projecting a moral image and nor just ask the US to bale them out.

@ggk9828

Ай бұрын

Wow! I'm sure there's straight white men reading this feeling like they too were wronged and that they should not worry though as they still remain quite large and in power. Such arrogant confidence in the acts and doings of this Apartheid state.

@factchecker6674

Ай бұрын

@@ggk9828Confljct theory much? Most of the world doesn’t buy your intersectional oppression language.

@everythingandmore5537

14 күн бұрын

Basic Truths 1. October 7 did not happen in a vacuum. 2. Israel is an Arphatheid state from the River to the Sea. 3. Palestinians have a right to resist the Israeli occupation. 4. Palestinians have tried peaceful resistance like the First Intifada (1990) and the March of Return (2018) and were brutalised by the IDF. 4. Palestinians are willing to go to courts like ICC and ICJ but Israel does not.

legitimate criticism of the Israeli government or military is not necessarily anti-Semitic, although it can be. The difference is in the intention of the critic. I have no evidence to support a rise of anti-Semitism, but do see an increase in legitimate criticism, as one would expect considering the actions of the Israeli government and military.

@dudah4906

Ай бұрын

perhaps I could agree with you if the critics of Israel applied the same standards to Hamas and to other groups who perpetrate far worse actions with the same vitriol. As it currently stands, Isreal is condemned for taking protective actions that Hamas' leaders knew Israel would take if attacked.

@captain34ca

Ай бұрын

@@dudah4906 Hamas is not a nation state. The Geneva convention and the standards of international law allow a people living under a hostile military occupation to resist by any means necessary, otherwise the resistance fighters in the Warsaw Uprising and others resisting occupation during WWII would be prosecuted for war crimes.

@tatyanamilanovic1558

9 күн бұрын

@@captain34ca , Gaza is not occupied and Hamas are not resistance fighters. Their charter calls for destruction of Israel and murder of all Jews. Did the Warsaw Uprising have a charter that called for extermination of Germans? Gazans were offered a peace deal and offer of huge influx of money by Jared Kushner's plan, yet they declined that offer and instead decided to go ahead with massacre of civilians in Israel.

Stop eating near the mike

I'm a huge fan of Haviv Rettig Gur's speeches and I'm a passionate supporter of Israel's right to exist. But this speech doesn't convince me. Diaspora Jews were undoubtedly the distant descendants of people who left the land of Israel anything from hundreds to thousands of years ago. Just as diaspora Irishpeople, the descendants of Irishpeople who left during the potato famines or at some other time in history don't have the right to "return" to a country that now belongs to indigenous Irish people who've never left and to the non-Irish migrants who've been allowed to settle there, so diaspora Jews didn't have the right to settle in Mandate Palestine. But what they did have, as a decimated and destitute refugee population coming out of war-torn Europe, was the same right as refugees today have to escape danger and extreme poverty and try to get to a better place. Just as Africans crossing the Mediterranean right now aren't obliged to read and take heed of the poll data showing a rise in anti-African or anti-refugee sentiment, so the Jews of 1948 weren't obliged to take much account of how Palestinians, inspired to some extent by the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti, felt about their arrival. If we are to win the argument against campus protesters we should avoid any idea that Jews are claiming the land of their distant ancestors. We should avoid the claim that for centuries, by deliberate choice, diaspora Jews have remained poorly integrated and apart from their host societies and that they've endlessly pined to be somewhere else: Israel. By far the strongest arguments in Israel's defence are that Israeli Jews today are the descendants of refugees (most campus protesters are supportive of refugees) and that most Hamas supporters aren't respectable anti colonialists, rather they're ideologically similar to the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti or to anti-immigrant ultra-nationalists on the European far right.

@everythingandmore5537

Ай бұрын

Israel says its a democracy. It has 20% Arab population. Between the river and the sea there are another 30% Arab population. Why not annex the area and give the Arabs full citizenship like Israeli Arabs. That's a yest on Israel harping about its a democracy like the west.

@ggk9828

Ай бұрын

Bravo! Glad to see some reason in the comments here.

@talzivbogart4207

Ай бұрын

(1) When you draw parallels between Diaspora Jews and diaspora Irish people to undermine the right of Diaspora Jews to return to Israel, you do realize that Ireland actually grants their diaspora (up to a point) a form of "right of return," right? They grant citizenship to the Irish diaspora up to the third generation. Other countries do similar things and are even more forgiving on how long it's been since their ancestors lived there. Ghana and a few other African countries offer citizenship to Black Americans on the basis of their ancestors coming from there before being enslaved. (2) What's severely missing from your analysis of progressives like those on college campuses is that, as much as they are sympathetic--*selectively*, mind you--to refugees, many of them more or less see the world in terms of "Indigenous people" versus "colonizers." If they're already convinced a group of people are colonizers, telling them that said people are actually refugees just makes them see them as colonizers with a sob story. In terms of Indigenous people, they absolutely, very much so believe in the right for people to return to their ancestral homeland after being forcibly displaced (c.f. the Land Back movement). These same people also strongly support "Right of Return" for Palestinians. The problem is that *they mostly don't like Jews,* so they neither accept Jews as indigenous to Israel with a right to return there like other displaced Indigenous peoples NOR as refugees with no other options--Jews are simply cast as probably lying colonizers *either way.*

@everythingandmore5537

Ай бұрын

@talzivbogart4207 Early zionist were generally atheist. Jewish rabbis hated the zionist Jews So the early zionist were colonisers. They said so in their speeches . However zionist have changed over the years and many are strong believers of God promise of the promise land to them. They can be clarified as Jihadi zionist.

If you classify every criticism of Israeli government’s conduct or of Israel itself as antisemitism, then I can’t help you!

@everythingandmore5537

Ай бұрын

The lady says anti-semitism is a world wide phenomenon in the ancient world. She is wrong. No one outside ancient Europe have seen a Jew. In the ancient Arab world there were Jews but no anti-semitism. In 2024 with the gaza genocide and ethnic cleansing anti-semitism is world wide.

@yossibtk

14 күн бұрын

Completely irrelevant to her lecture, she didn't even remotely try to imply that.

Saying Israel is "Imperfect" or has "Issues" is actually comedic. This is an insult to any intelligent human being.

@vladimirioffe4237

2 ай бұрын

As if you are “intelligent “human being”…😜

@bosshogg7513

2 ай бұрын

Whining about the Palestinians as if you actually care, whilst totally ignoring the millions of muslims being butchered and oppressed by Syria, Yemen, China, Iran, Hamas, Afghanistan, Sudan et cetera is an insult to any intelligent human being. Just admit you only care when the "perpetrators" are white/western/jewish. Whining about Israel, a country that is in the top 50 on about every international ranking regarding freedom, democracy, human rights, minority rights, freedom of speech, freedom of press and so forth while ignoring the fact that about all Arab/muslim countries are at the bottom of these same rankings is an insult to any intelligent human being. Pushing for a boycot of Israel but not f.i. China is an insult to any intelligent human being.

@danielquartler1527

2 ай бұрын

Calling you a human is an insult to all other human beings