Saying that the ancients didn't see race in people's physical appearances but were more concerned about cultural differences always struck me as being forced. Physical appearance was the quickest way to determine if a person was from your culture or not, especially in the ancient world. All one has to do is read the geographies of the Greeks and Romans to see that they spend a large amount of time describing the physical appearance of the people in each region covered.

@sakesaurus1706

2 ай бұрын

trying to turn a normative statement into factual. They shouldn't mistreat people for appearance -> they haven't mistreated people for appearance What world are they living in? The Chris Chan's Rift? You won't jump the timeline no matter how much you preach tolerance

@wingedhussar1453

2 ай бұрын

Seems like back then a physical trait was more judged upon one person not a group.such as noses etc they judged based upon physical trait onto one person nose

@RyanG0899

2 ай бұрын

​@peacewarrecords Yes, but the op isn't wrong.

@dangerdan2592

2 ай бұрын

​@@wingedhussar1453Hmm, maybe. Though I know some of the Roman accounts of the Germanic tribes talk about how they all have light colored eyes, blonde or red hair, are huge with pale skin. I think it's just more of a stereotype thing that they used when writing about a different group of people like the Germanics.

@TheMapman01

2 ай бұрын

Why? That's how it is now.

Ancient racism can be boiled down to: "You aren't part of my tribe. The farther from my tribe the worse I view you."

@marcusaurelius4941

2 ай бұрын

isn't that avery racism ever?

@paavoilves5416

2 ай бұрын

@@marcusaurelius4941 American culture has kind of changed that a bit. They're all from the same culture (kind of), but they view racism through the lens of skin color rather than heritage. It's not about ancient peoples and which cultures are better than others but rather whites vs blacks vs latinos (even though that's not a skin color, I know, they're weird) etc.

@jonperry4580

2 ай бұрын

@@paavoilves5416 You clearly don't understand American racial politics.

@paavoilves5416

2 ай бұрын

@@jonperry4580 Enlighten me.

@nomercynodragonforyou9688

2 ай бұрын

@@jonperry4580 You're wrong

"I'm from Africa too, and I've never seen anyone like you before!" - Emp. Septimus Severus

@LOCATIONREDACTED

2 ай бұрын

Netflix wouldn't believe him.

@righteousviking

2 ай бұрын

Ha! I commented to early, of course it was mentioned.

@mannyrodriguez5453

2 ай бұрын

@@LOCATIONREDACTED It's a North American problem, ignorance there is way too abundant.

@LOCATIONREDACTED

2 ай бұрын

@@mannyrodriguez5453 Same in northern europe.

@dangerdan2592

2 ай бұрын

​@@mannyrodriguez5453Some European countries aren't much better when it comes to that type of thing. Sweden might even be worse from what I've seen.

Something my history professor said in my Roman course is that anyone that wasn’t Roman was a barbarian. That really should be it as a baseline.

@Vulgarth1

2 ай бұрын

Same with the Chinese and Japanese. Multiple local tribes around the (at the time) small kingdoms of China were considered barbarians. Even before the Han showed up. In Japan, basically everyone was "Nanban".

@Raximus3000

2 ай бұрын

Copycats...

@Unpainted_Huffhines

2 ай бұрын

They got that from the Greeks, who considered all non-Greeks (including Romans) to be barbarians.

@Mode-Selektor

2 ай бұрын

Everyone except for the Greeks. The Romans recognized them as a culture worthy of praise and emulation.

@jarlfenrir

2 ай бұрын

"Barbarian" is literally someone with a different culture than your own.

Romans: "We're not racists. We treat everyone equally." Someone in the distance: "Screw Rome!" Romans: *Proceeds to be incredibly racist*

@stefanodadamo6809

2 ай бұрын

They crucified people of all races, indeed.

@thomashauer6804

2 ай бұрын

well...ask hadrian on the "israelis"

@laisphinto6372

2 ай бұрын

Roman Slave markets are incredible diverse.

@jonathanwells223

2 ай бұрын

@@thomashauer6804 maybe they shouldn't talk shit when they have been consistently dominated by their neighbors

@thomashauer6804

2 ай бұрын

@@jonathanwells223 Hadrian was just upset bc his woke lover died

The video saying, "Racism wouldn't be based on look but by culture" disregarding that one of the easiest ways to determine someone's culture is from their physical traits, especially in the pre-industrial, pre-globalized society. As a matter of fact even in modern racism the same thing often applies. I mean if you actually asked someone who is openly racist why they don't like a certain race they'll probably tell you stuff like thinking them to be "lazy", "violent' or "untrustworthy," not just "they don't look like me."

@elleanna5869

2 ай бұрын

Modern racism stems from pseudoscience of race , and thinks it's genetic, not cultural - if you look like that , you are that no matter how / where you are raised, educated- it's literally "who evolved further from apes?" ancient tribalism of course used to conflate different looks from different places , tribes and culture, but things could be really...nuanced. Also, the xenophobia applied also to people looking really similar to you, a different language or clothing or gods or traditions was enough to say "we aren't the same tribe no matter we are both blondettes or whatever"

@kellysouter4381

2 ай бұрын

Or they might say"I'm worried that person will take my job, leaving me unable to care for my family well" if they were speaking of migrant.

@xShadowChrisx

2 ай бұрын

@@elleanna5869 "Modern racism stems from pseudoscience of race , and thinks it's genetic, not cultural " Tell me you've never actually talked to most modern racists without telling me. What most people call "racism" is people having issues with the others culture in the first place. Racial eugenicists are different from your average supremacist even when there's plenty of overlap.

@ravanpee1325

2 ай бұрын

​@@xShadowChrisxThey just try to rationalize racistic behavior..there is no empiric evidence for eugenic theories

@alanmichelsandovalcardona4938

2 ай бұрын

but in ancient times romans had contact with european cultures that were also white, of course some were whiter than them but you also have the other latin cultures and the etruscans, so Invicta has a point, we cant use the modern framing of it

“Like the Huns, the Visigoths were horsemen, but unlike the Huns, they were skilled in agriculture and stock rearing. Tall, bearded, with long blonde or red hair, and bodies swathed in skins and furs, the Goths were fearsome Warriors with a proud sense of self-worth. In the ‘civilized’ Roman Empire, desk-bound academics, like the Greek historian Eunapius, sneered at them for being arrogant and contemptuous: Their bodies provoked contempt to all who saw them, for they were far too big and far too heavy for their feet to carry them, and they were pinched in at the waist - just like those insects Aristotle writes of” - the Romans

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

lol

@johnmortell3087

2 ай бұрын

Jealousy: It sits at a desk and sneers.

@starfox300

2 ай бұрын

Funnily enough they eventually captured Rome

@unclesam5230

2 ай бұрын

@@starfox300 indeed

@aracelymoran2504

2 ай бұрын

+ @unclesam5230 irony is how quick the Imperial Elites used them as replacement legionaires in the Roman Army when locals quit milirary service.

The funniest part of the Petronius quote: but, tell me, can we make our lips swell to a hideous thickness? Or transform our hair with curling-tongs?

@mgntstr

2 ай бұрын

Oooh. Lip fillers are black face!

@SuperRichyrich11

2 ай бұрын

Say in plain words what you meant by this

@alphadron4073

2 ай бұрын

@@SuperRichyrich11 I believe it's a jab at the fact people do exactly that fairly commonly these days. Curling irons for hair are very common and lip injections to make them swell is also at arm's reach. Something unthinkable by Petronius is, in fact, a very frequent occurrence these days. Up yours, Petry.

@zzodysseuszz

2 ай бұрын

@@alphadron4073I do not believe it is a good thing modern society has degraded that much

@KneeSlice1775

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@zzodysseuszzWhich society degraded from what time period to now?

That is why I hate when Afrocentrists say Septimius Severus was black or dark skinned but usually black like African Americans today. If he was black, why did he hate Ethiopians? Why would Rome allowed themselves to be ruled by a SubSaharan African? It is like Queen Charolette. Why would the UK let a black woman be Queen of England and why did they use white paint to paint her portraits? Just because race is different today doesn't mean that people never noticed differences. We are really not that different from Ancient Romans.

@laisphinto6372

2 ай бұрын

AS an african from all emperors to LARP as i would Not want to be septimus Severus the one who Basically got the ball running for more civil wars, Inflation and disloyalty of the army

@gianlucarossi5672

2 ай бұрын

Septimius was not anti-Ethiopian, but he was superstitious because the color black was associated with death in ancient Roman culture. Remember, Septimius simply ordered that the Ethiopian be removed from his sight because he was afraid, whereas the native Romans were shocked and even more superstitious than Severus, and they killed the Ethiopian who appeared out of nowhere. Aside from this context, Ethiopians could move and live in Rome alongside everyone else without being attacked.

@elleanna5869

2 ай бұрын

@@gianlucarossi5672 there are interpretation of the episode that the soldier was removed rather then killed but honestly as much I can hope he survived the key is the one you report: superstiton. Ancient mindset used to depend of "omens" since the chances to control environment and events were much lower than today so it was a coping mechanism. It's still present in most underdeveloped areas of the world

@MegaMesozoic

2 ай бұрын

Queen Charlotte wasn't black, she and her family were German.

@narudayo5053

2 ай бұрын

They were black people of importance in europe, bu these guys always use the bad example, they blackwash the people instead of looking for the ones that were really black. Like Alexandre Dumas' father who was a general under Napoléon, or Dido Elizabeth Belle, or John Blanke, a trumpet guy under Henry wathever bumber

Yeah, the Roman Empire was cosmopolitan in the same way the British Empire was cosmopolitan (Indian colonial workers and troops served throughout the British Empire, for example).

@Mode-Selektor

2 ай бұрын

"We're not racist. We conquer and enslave people of all races and cultures equally."

@stanbartsch1984

2 ай бұрын

The Romans brought in their own administrators and governors and in many cases garrisons of legionnaires rather than rely on the locals for that stuff. Yes, locals were used as auxiliaries, and in many cases the local authorities operated under the Roman prefects, but much like the British, they put their OWN people in charge at the top.

@OcarinaSapphr-

2 ай бұрын

@@stanbartsch1984 They also encouraged the integration of the local elite to 'Romanise' - it was an easier way of reducing resistance, but it didn't always work; compare Boudiccea & Cartimandua, Prasutagus & Caratacus...

@kingjoe3rd

2 ай бұрын

Modern British progressives try to pretend like black people were living in Britain since the Middle Ages as sort kind of diaspora, without ever mentioning that they were only there to serve as a kind of exotic pet in order to show how rich and world traveled their royalty were. Also, there were only like a dozen of them.

@bokonoo77

2 ай бұрын

Comparing British empire which was literally cash cow of its own colonies to Rome is incredibly insulting

"You look like a giant mozzarella cheese". *Subscribed*

@dancekeb1308

2 ай бұрын

Yes, the "giant mozzarella cheese" remark made me laugh and laugh. (Already a subscriber.)

@teresamerkel7161

2 ай бұрын

As a white woman, I am now identifying as a "giant mozzarella cheese."

@rattheninja2877

2 ай бұрын

You can’t trust anyone who looks like a giant mozzarella cheese

@Kar4ever3

2 ай бұрын

*Angry Germanic tree noises*

@microcolonel

2 ай бұрын

Channing Tatum looks more like a big edam​@@rattheninja2877

Having such strong reactions when seeing Ethiopians by Brutus, Cassius and to a lesser extend Septimius Severus, is a strong indication that seeing some was very rare in Rome. This debunks some falsehood as a BBC cartoon.

@tlothompson6935

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. No one can convince me blacks were all over Europe or even in southern Europe. They were only seen near Ethiopia and people who saw them, made sure to note how "different" they were.

“The one race of outstanding eminence in virtue among all the races in the whole world is undoubtedly the Roman” ~ Pliny the Elder, Nat. His. VII. 41

@networknomad5600

2 ай бұрын

And he wasn't even wrong.

@antarescitizen

2 ай бұрын

You are goddam right!@@networknomad5600

@patrickholt2270

2 ай бұрын

But is that just treating race and nationality as the same thing, and therefore not about race as such? There was a lot of that usage of the word race from British imperialists like Rudyard Kipling and any number of British politicians and colonial officials at the height of the British empire, but clearly there's no such thing as a British "race". Also it occurs to me that's probably _Virtu,_ like in Machiavelli, not the English "virtue" related to morality. The vitality and dynamism of the virile masculine _Vir._

@NIDOKING

2 ай бұрын

@@patrickholt2270 Not unlike today, where people use color to be racist, even though color aren't races. Whatever is easy to divide people and control them is what ends up being used at certain points in history.

@paavoilves5416

2 ай бұрын

@@patrickholt2270 Skin color isn't race. Otherwise the early modern racists wouldn't have been so adamant that Finns aren't white, but mongoloids.

Man, I've heard it was bad luck for a black cat to cross your path, but that story about the Ethiopian was on a whole new level.

@TransRoofKorean

2 ай бұрын

There were essentially 2 stories that had the same motif, that it was that they're specifically bad luck (militarily?) I bet that was essentially a pretty widespread superstition.

@missread7781

2 ай бұрын

I'm from Uk and it was when i was a kid we used to say Lucky Black cat. You were lucky if a black cat crossed your path. Changing a bit under USA influence. Nothing to do with the topic but..... Well I am old.

@TheBlackSeraph

2 ай бұрын

@@missread7781 The reason why it's considered good luck for a pure black cat to cross your path in the UK is that black cats were killed during various phases of European history such as periods of mass witch hunts and now they're rare to the point that the superstition changed.

@Hokies4evr

2 ай бұрын

Difference is, when the black cat crosses your path, you don’t typically slaughter it… Romans were hardcore… 😝

@vilena5308

2 ай бұрын

@@Hokies4evr My late grandma kept spitting all over the road every time a black cat crossed our path. Which, in retrospect, was more often than you would expect. Anyway, I asked her if she could please stop with that. And she was upset, saying "At least I'm not killing them!!". And I was like, is that an option?!!! And yeah, people apparently, some, did kill those poor cats to "remove the bad luck".

This was FABULOUS! I appreciate your intentions here. To OPEN a dialogue!!! To offer different viewpoints (with your supporting data) to encourage discussion and debate on a very important topic that is being forced on everyone around the world! Let’s start by getting the definitions of Race correct. How can there be a dialogue if everyone is speaking in different languages??? Can we drop political biases and discuss facts, with the intention of learning and being taught??? And if one is going to teach, bring the proof to support your argument! You Do! You Do! No biases, just historical, even ancient facts! I TRUST your commentary… and I trust very few…. You, Metatron, TEACH me, instead of BRAINWASH me! I’m a proud to be a Noble One! Be Blessed and Highly Favored!

Also Europeans in their first contact with aboriginals of Australia they classified them as different race than Africans Further showing that racial classification was not just about physical appearances but also behavioral characteristics

@Doge811

2 ай бұрын

They are genetically the more distant people from black Africans. But they don't look exactly the same Europeans actually studied (in their way) those things. Take the Caucasian classification and is very similar to what today is called western eurasian.... Don't say races exists but clustering do.

@matthewmann8969

2 ай бұрын

Australian Aboriginals And Tasmanian Aboriginals of pure blood or next to that liquid on average look different from the typical Sub Saharan African the ones with more nappy hair and frizzy hair rather then straight, wavy, curly, and shaggy have admixture from Melanesians And Papuans yeah.

@marcusaurelius4941

2 ай бұрын

Rather it shows that race doesn't boil down to skin color, because other physical characteristics of the two peoples are very different

@Lockfly

2 ай бұрын

Actually it is about physical appearance. Yeah aboriginals have black skin but their other features are not similar to subsaharans, same with black people from southern India their skin is black but they don't look like Africans

@danielabebe8602

2 ай бұрын

what how does that prove anything the aboriginals look nothing like any African and no one has ever suggested or mistaken those two. Sure their skin is dark but facial features, hair etc. are quite literally the opposite. Next thing u'll say sri lankans look like haitians

Race, or rather hatred toward different peoples (be it ethnicity, class, etc etc) has always existed and will continue to exist in the future. Hell, even some other animal species show discriminatory behaviour, mostly social hierarchy discrimination

@witchhazel4135

2 ай бұрын

When I was growing up, we introduced a white cow into the herd of black ones. The poor white cow was shunned because she was different. 🙁

@saltzkruber732

2 ай бұрын

Its a natural human thing to dislike the strange and un-familiar

@xShadowChrisx

2 ай бұрын

@@saltzkruber732 it's not even human. All life discriminates favoring it's own.

@c0mpu73rguy

2 ай бұрын

Heck, if pets are anything to go by, I noticed that my mother’s oldest cat, black furred, despite having a very bad temper towards my other cats (don’t ask, I have too much) immediately accepted the youngest cat we adopted and never showed any sign of violence towards him. That youngest cat is also a black cat. Maybe it’s a coïncidence, maybe it’s just his fatherly instincts that kicked in since that new cat was still a kitten back then but I couldn’t help but notice that.

@Wilkins325

2 ай бұрын

@@saltzkruber732 Natural doesnt mean good though

I keep hearing that ancient world perceived race and engaged in racism differently from today but as far I can see it is broadly similar.

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

Targets have changed is all.

@IsomerSoma

2 ай бұрын

Yes there just have been some extra justifications (like genetics instead of "the warm climate makes them degenerate") and some re-grouping as well as shift in enemy image.

@supereero9

2 ай бұрын

Not really

@IsomerSoma

2 ай бұрын

@@supereero9 So where are the fundamental differences and what makes lets say european colonial period racism so much different from anything else?

@supereero9

2 ай бұрын

@@IsomerSoma I take issue with the generalization, the arguments the ancients used for their tribalism was different from the "scientific" claims modern racists make. I'm hesitant to label all manifestations of tribalism as racism, even if that tribalism seperates people based on their looks

Great work. As a neoclassical historian and Romanist I substantially agree with your observations.

That's a very hot topic to discuss on KZread. Kudos for explaining some obvious things that are not to be discussed in a "modern" environment.

@laisphinto6372

Ай бұрын

Its also weird that isnt only the very narrow modern View but the modern American View . Also its really weird calling rome so tolerant when they literally a tribune to death for daring to share Power or fought a whole war because they refuse to give citizenship to Italian soccis. Then are the class divides with patricians and plebs where you werent even allowed to marry into Patrician Status and i Wonder how much they Stretch the Romans to fit a particullar modern narrative

Great response. I remember watching Invicta's video in question and being somewhat puzzled on his reasoning.

Hell, Romans for a long period of time viewed even other “Italians” as belonging to a different race and not truly equal to Romans.

@kevinhulse2983

2 ай бұрын

Racial ideas shift over time even within the same period (modern or ancient).

@Choom7

2 ай бұрын

In truth there is only one race--the human race. People try to change the meaning for different agendas but what they are really referring to is ethnicity. What seems to be even more lost on people is that your ethnicity and skin color are not mutually exclusive. Your ethnicity is so much more than just skin color.

Another fantastic deep dive! Love it. One topic that I've always been fascinated in (and am considering doing a thesis on it) would be looking at the historiography of the Greco-Roman world. Specifically how the Greeks and Romans saw and understood history, particularly in relation to philosophy and, for lack of a better word, religion/magic/prophesying.

Metatron you are the best. Thanks for opening my eyes to a whole different perspective of race analysis. I had watched that video from Invicta (great youtube channel by the way). I am grateful for the info and good points you made in the video. Keep up the good work 🔥 .

Thank you for showing a link to the original video in the video description box (it was even in beginning of the description). So many people don't provide a link.

I always get a little nervous when I see these as I love both of your channels, but happy to see the good natured back and forth.

@arthas640

2 ай бұрын

It's kind of sad but it's almost impossible for many people to see someome talking about racism without having a knee jerk reaction and accusing them of racism. Happens a lot online but I've had it happen IRL too even when it's a civil, mixed race discussion.

@Halo_Legend

2 ай бұрын

​@@arthas640Only happens in america and other bastardised countries.

@stevenpatrick9213

2 ай бұрын

Invicta is a soy slurping beta male. Unsubbed ages ago because I could see him poisoning his vids with wokery.

@MW_Asura

2 ай бұрын

@@Halo_Legend True

In the copy of cesars commentary on the gallic wars there are many references cesar himself and further sources in annotations refering to groups of people (tribes the romans and/or allies fought with or against) by their appearance.

Very hard to watch your videos only once. The sheer amount of information you impart can be overwhelming. I still continue to listen (twice), because I feel I am learning important information. History changes, or seems to change, because new sources are discovered

@metatronyt

2 ай бұрын

I appreciate that thanks

Metatron you hit the proverbial nail on the head . Once again thank you for stating the facts unambiguously and with absolute conviction. Bravo Sir! God bless you and the Mrs.

I was aware three years ago when I watched that video that he was lying. I mean it, "lying". If I knew, having just scratched the surface of roman ancient texts, he had to know too. I can't believe he was repeating that thing about culture in good faith. He knew, and still lied.

@blankblank9070

2 ай бұрын

Well if he didn’t lie it wouldn’t fit the “message”

@Flavius_Belisarius

2 ай бұрын

Too much soy

Excellent Lecture . Again I'm in awe of the amount of established historical records utilized .

I think you’re brilliant, fair and reasonable. I enjoy your videos. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💕🇨🇦

in ancients times nobody knew what a gene was, but a lot of noble peoples went to great lengths in rising cattle, and so they understood pretty well the process of inheriting traits. I have read in some books thou that such people were of the race of hector, or some other person, so then one single man could start a whole race? race must have been a similar but also different idea.

@anblueboot5364

2 ай бұрын

I would classify this as ancient/historical Propaganda. Gaius Julius Caesar, says he's from the House of Julia which means he's a Trojan descendant and more importantly that the god Mars is great Grand Daddy, it's used to justify Power cause it Sounds better to be a pseudo god than Just a regular human. I think in that Case ist the wronf Word and Family is a better fit.

I love how you pronounce Cicero - NEVER heard it pronounced that way. 😊

You 2 are actually my favorite roman historical channels

A youtube response in a respectful manner between fellow history lovers :O I thank you very much for that ! Quite interessting

When you go to your disgraced senator friend's villa and he calls Apsimachos from the next room to bring some wine and out of the door comes Vercingetorix the younger with your wine and a look on his face that states he barely understands Latin let alone have a Greek education

Thanks for the video. I must have missed something because, to me there is nothing new or surprising in the fact that the racism from the elite castes is always more "sophisticated" and more logically contextualized than the one of the masses. It must be my bias but I always believed it was something quite universal. As to me the simple idea of castes is the true basis to any racism. Henceforth I believe it's the same everywhere and everywhen as "castes" are everywhere and everywhen. It must look simplisitic as hell and now I feel like an idiot :/ Well thanks for helping me shaping my own ideas better. I really love your work.

Incredibly interesting insight into Rome's historical perspective. Not the same outlook on today's modernism, but still very human (good and bad traits).

New worlders not understanding how things worked in the Old World, classic.

@AlexIncarnate911

2 ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly 😂

Hope your mum's doing okay Raff coming up to the 6th anniversary on losing my mum to pancreatic cancer which happened so quickly in a matter of weeks we barely had chance to say goodbye , Anyway I'm xing my fingers for your mum and I'm hoping that losing mine puts the odds higher for your mum beating this because of odds n chances ❤

I unsubscribed from Invicta awhile back due to his forceful nature of his ideology. If he removes himself from the equation and delivers us a truthful and open minded historical take and I will consider subscribing again.

@waltermh111

2 ай бұрын

But that ideology is only based on emotions and is therefore naturally revolutionary, so it can't be separated from everything

@maszkalman3676

2 ай бұрын

Yeah his latest (a few years back now) quite the how to say nicer the woke version of reality which never should collide with history...

@ChronosHellas

2 ай бұрын

Kings and Generals seem more biased to me. They've created maps that aren't quite accurate, such as those depicting the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, where they include, for example, the Ionian islands, which were almost never part of the empire. They oscillate between portraying Alexander sometimes as Greek and other times as Greek-like. They generally focus only on battles, ignoring other historical events that contribute more to society than just wars, which has always bothered me. They seem to cater more to history enthusiasts rather than focusing on academic topics, unlike Metatron who focuses on real academic works. At least Invicta delves into details about the daily lives, diets, and perspectives of people from that time period, adopting a more documentary-style approach. Unlike Kings and Generals, who tend to attract a more nationalistic audience.

@voxsvoxs4261

2 ай бұрын

@@ChronosHellas wasn't Macedonia greek-like? at least that's how I remember it being mentioned, I believe in Plato sourcewise. They are sufficiently Greek, that you could say they are Greek and no one would complain, but if you were to distuinguish them from Greece it wouldn't be that unusual, as a Macedonian, I wouldn't be surprised Alexander is in the same sort of consideration.

@ChronosHellas

2 ай бұрын

@@voxsvoxs4261It's uncommon to consider Macedon as a distinct entity. Philip was a member of the Amphictyonic League, an exclusive Greek association. The Macedonians participated in the Olympics, and their dynasty, the Temenid/Argead, has its roots in Argos, the birthplace of the Virginia star. Moreover, the Pella Curse Tablet unequivocally establishes the Macedonians as Greek which they would either speak Dorian or Elean. The assertion about kings and generals purposefully avoiding upsetting Western Bulgarian viewers is real, kings and general lacks academic credibility at times, even Metatron acknowledges that Makedon is Greek, which is why I place more trust in his channel over those catering to casual history enthusiasts. It doesn’t take much to understand that following only Demosthenes (a politician) is a criminal offense to the history.

thank you ! for using Marcus Vitruvius Pollio's De Architectura book 6 on climate , i have been using this now for the last 3 years , not to demonstrate racism but rather an understanding for it's time that the Romans felt themselves very different from the rest of the surrounding nations

Distinguishing is a good word to enable the use of classification. celebrated, well-known or eminent because of past achievements; prestigious

Are you going to do a follow up video on the Netflix series on Alexander?

@metatronyt

2 ай бұрын

I’m preparing a full analysis of episode 1

@user-do4rk2qv4w

2 ай бұрын

Can't wait. : )​@@metatronyt

@brunocarneiro9688

2 ай бұрын

​@@metatronyti Saw a short clip talking about what it is thought to be the tomb of alexander's father. Do you think his remains Will be found during our life time?

@andradeharo9796

2 ай бұрын

@@metatronyt Since you are Reviewing Alexander on Netflix would you mind speaking on the growing number of Indians believing and Indian historians pushing this narrative of Alexander the Great Running away from india after Losing to Porus. kzread.info/dash/bejne/hGykzLxtdMq5dqQ.htmlsi=1y5NUixd1fmbLefr

I’m a simple man. I see Metatron upload, I press like. Man deserves it. Thanks for your hard work and dedication to accurately representing history, Metatron.

@yvonnehorde1097

Ай бұрын

Yeah, Metatron you are really doing your research. Thanks. Very informative.

Excellent work. I had a similar (if vastly less articulate) reaction to the Invicta work. The issue of the latter mainly being the imposition, in overly black and white terms, of a culture versus phenotype contrast between racial attitudes, Rome to today. Race, in the end,, ends up being a mere word, to which Invicta saw a differing treatment in the ancient world, which then misled him thus. It did this because back then there was not as developed sense of the arbitrary nature of cultural formation, and thus no concept of culture other than better culture ("our culture") and worse culture (all other cultures) for which the word "race" could be swapped in easily. This, to Metatron's point, does not mean phenotype was nothing back then. At 7:40, though, I'd differ, since the rather violent actions have a more profound cause in superstition/myth than animosity based on phenotype directly. Phenotypic aversion may have been merely an opportunity for a myths making, of, by the way, a fairly poetic kind - dark=dark. Then humans - ones in an anxious scenario, by the way, took the myth very seriously. Add the ancient lower regard for life in general, and, wa-lah.

You are THE BEST pedagogue ive ever seen. BY FAR.

Why are only Europeans constantly slandered about their cultures and heritage? Makes me wonder if there’s something far more sinister at play. It’s quite despicable how much the world feels the need to oppress one type of look which is the Anglo Saxon/Germanic ethnicities…and hold the rest at a lower level due to lack of success across the world vs that of the Europeans.

Good video aside, as usual, I just love that Metatron is so into his Latin roleplaying that he pronounced it Inwikta when prolly all the planet (OP included) pronounces it as it is written.

I love both your channels. I sincerely hope this _evolves_ into a fruitful, interesting discussion. Let's talk, and listen, and exchange views, and debate like the intelligent, considerate, dare I say noble (?!) individuals we are in this community.

I would like to see Metatron do a video about the Eastern Roman Empire(history,military,politics etc)

That modern idea about ancient people not seeing what we call race always seemed nonsensical to me. A person’s outward appearance is how human being identify and judge each other, it’s how we communicate.

Glad you did this metatron

Thank you for another educational video!

The idea of race and culture being two separate things is entirely a modern American idea, and it isn't really relevant anywhere outside of America

@danh6720

18 күн бұрын

Entirely is quite a strong word.

@filmandfirearms

18 күн бұрын

@@danh6720 And an accurate one. This idea did not exist until the 20th century and stems entirely from America

I’m not saying that this has any basis in fact or logic, but, I’ve noticed a pattern with videos centering around explaining racial views of ancient peoples. It always seems that the more upbeat and “airy” (flowery or lovey dovey) the narrator/creator of the video is…the higher the chances are that they aren’t being honest, or the more likely that they are “dressing up” some uncomfortable truths. While there’s plenty of decent info in his video, I can’t help but feel like there is an underlying agenda, which allows him (in his own mind) to justify bending these harsh truths to fit that agenda. Great assessment, and I think many humans like the idea of everything being “love and light and we are all oneness”, etc.. but it’s simply not the case for a large chunk of humanity, even in present times and especially the past. Anybody who thinks that every culture and society, whether 1st or 3rd world, is just misunderstood and all open arms to everyone and everything, simply hasn’t traveled enough…and if they have traveled, they’ve stayed on resort grounds lol.

@johnnydkota5709

2 ай бұрын

I think it’s more to do with his world view and less about furthering a Great agenda.

@reaperanon979

2 ай бұрын

They either lack the ability to contextualize reality or they simply never experienced it in the first place.

People were always trying to find a clear boundary between "us" and "them". That one he is right about. The thing is, as the history goes forth, our world becomes bigger. In ancient times what was important to you was your village, maybe your tribe. Empires like Rome or China were exceptions rather than the norm. And even then most subjects were not bothered by the affairs of the state. Last quarter of second millennium saw a rise of nations (yes - a nation is a relatively modern concept). At that time we would be bothered by the lot of our country. In 21st century there are unification movements like European Union, OPEC etc. Many people talk about a global village and being citizens of the world. What does it have to do with racism? When your group is small, and most other groups you meet are the same ethnicity you have to use culture to distinguish yourself from them. You tend to know much about your close neighbours. Race is rarely an issue. If you ever meet someone with different skin tone, they will be from far away. You are not competing with them for resources. But they are different enough that you are curious. That's the definition of exotic - distant enough that it has no real bearing on your life, and unknown enough to make you curious. Nowadays black people from Africa are not exotic for me (I'm from Poland). And the entire EU has become My Group. Africa is my neighbour. So is Russia, America and Asia.

@babilon6097

2 ай бұрын

Of course the size of your world was determined not just by the times you lived in, but also place and social status. E.g. 16th century polish peasant would be basically confined to his village (that's after centuries of aristocrats lobbying for taking rights away from peasants - a dark chapter in polish history). The higher you go in social standing, the bigger your world becomes even though you live at the same time just a few kilometres apart. You could become a soldier and with little bit of luck you could see more of the world. But there were people whose world was even bigger than that of a king. Those people were merchants. Spice merchants to be exact. Or silk or other oriental goods.

@elleanna5869

2 ай бұрын

Commenters like you are a refreshing read. Thank you.

I'm glad you gave a shout out to Invicta. He does do good work. Another good one is History Marche. History Marche is the one I go to for battle breakdowns. What tactics were used etc.

Before Darwin, races were closely linked to ethnicities, so there were hundreds of races. After Darwin, we only have about 5.

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

Genetics seems to concur with Darwin. It seems a shame there's a massive push to erase human diversity by trying to stir us all up together into a vague monoculture.

@narudayo5053

2 ай бұрын

Which loose a lot of its senses considering how many natives tribes there is all over the world, that don't look like each others

Is that an Amiga behind you? The old-timey monitor caught my eye first, then the 2-colored keyboard/machine itself.

@metatronyt

2 ай бұрын

Amiga 500, fully funcional!

People being unaware of the interaction between ancient tribes is largely due to the modern avoidance of the topic. Also, schools rarely have students study classical literature whether Mediterranean, Chinese, Indian, Ethiopian... Ancient studies are enlightening and fascinating. How else can we keep from repeating history if we do not study it? As you shrugged and said at 17:57, "Kinda like today."

@AlexIncarnate911

2 ай бұрын

Just travel to other countries and you’ll witness it in real time 😅

I've always been curious about this.

Hi Metatron! This video made me wonder: what do you think about the creation of a series where you ask historians to review your videos in a format like this? I think it would be a very exciting series!

Finally! Someone tackles this channel. I didn't know what to think of it, youtubers are my gateway knowledge levels on a given topic. I only read about stuff if it interests me further. That's why spreading falsehoods by youtubers is so dangerous - I may never face the lies they told.

@gratefulguy4130

2 ай бұрын

Then I recommend viewing all youtube historians as simply being entertainment. Honestly, the entire profession should be regarded as such. The same is true for most areas of academia.

@RPGryphus

2 ай бұрын

Spreading "falsehoods" is not dangerous, what nonsense are you babbling about? The intent behind the falsehoods are what would make them dangerous, not the falsehoods themselves. There's nothing wrong making mistake or not getting stuff 100% correct, but if the intent is to educate and entertain, then the achievement is likely to be watchers being inspired to look further into the subject and find out for themselves the different perspectives and understandings of the facts that are out there. These medias ARE NOT educational per se, it is only so incidentally : they are ENTERTAINMENT. If you want facts, STUDY the history yourself, read the accredited experts and keep reading on.

@Halo_Legend

2 ай бұрын

​​@@gratefulguy4130Agree, but the sad truth is that entertainment has bigger reach than scholary works and most people acquire views about the topics the entertainment talks about through movies and such. Because of this fact, the entertainment is a war zone for ideologs to spread their propaganda (Cleopatra) and should be considered a war zone by honest scholars as well if we are to see any historical accuracy in common perception whatsoever.

@tearsinpain

2 ай бұрын

@@gratefulguy4130 Yeah lets just regard an entire profession has entertainment , when they spend years studying and producing knowledge, and then expand to the rest of academia , yakes.

@Halo_Legend

2 ай бұрын

​@@gratefulguy4130Wow, amazing. I had a reply to you. A normal, agreeing reply furthering the point. It's gone now. Yet again, youtube decided to punish its user for using some word no one even considers offensive and I have no clue which of my words that could be. How fun to interact with this site.

I find it to be a bit strange that anyone thinks that certain evils, or sin, if you prefer, are new. Like ancient people didn't feel the things we feel, greed, avarice, desire for power, jealousy, fear of the unknown or unfamiliar, and all of the other dark things humans are capable of.

@Moses_VII

2 ай бұрын

The Quran disproves your point. If you think greed is new, you haven't read about the man named Qarun, a greedy man in Ancient Egypt who refused to join the Exodus of Moses. If you think jealousy is new, you know neither the story of Lucifer who refused to prostrate to Adam, nor do you know the story of Cane killing Able out of jealousy. Desire for power is seen in Nimrod, who was trying to challenge God and trying to make people think he was the only god, yet he failed thanks to Abraham.

@I-io8ee

2 ай бұрын

tbf modern ideas of race are kind of new, though they are basically just a type of discrimintory behavior to people who don't look or speak or act like you

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

Conversely I don't get why people presume that modern people are substantially different and virtuous. Or that percieved virtue is likewise novel. Psychologically modern humans have been around for a long time.

@Choom7

2 ай бұрын

​@@I-io8eemodern ideas like people reduce themselves to a skin color and voluntarily segregating while not even understanding the difference between species, race and ethnicity 😂 I think ancient people might have had some insight that modern times have lost.

The idea that race and culture are separate is one of the most deep-seated modern misconceptions. The culture can influence race (through promoting selection of individuals with certain traits), and the race can influence the culture (because of the racial traits, and the connection of race and environment, environment can influence the culture)

Very interesting commentary thank you

I like to think that the Romans were somewhere halfway between the "I am completely colourblind" and the "one drop and you're out" extremes on the Great Scale of Racial Awareness. As most people are, probably. The fact that Mediterranean people are not as much an outlier in terms of hair colour and skin tone as northern Europeans are, on a global scale, may have helped too.

Hey there Metatron, I want to ask if there are any historical clues to if there were at lest some instances of romans having equiped at least the most elite soldiers with both Lorica hamata and Lorica segmentata. Using plate armor on top of the mail armor like in medieval times. Thanks

The Rest is History podcasts are terrific

Projecting our own norms and perceptions into the past is an erroneous practice. We humans have always noted differences and identified ourselves with those who look, sound and behave like us.

Numerous people on Reddit and online promote the myth that the Romans only despised Northern Europeans and loved and felt close to Middle Easterners. According to the primary sources, this is not really the case. The Romans said both negative and positive things about Germanic or Celtic people, as well as all other people they met. In fact, the Romans said many disparging and bad stuff about the Near Easteners, the Carthaginians, and, to a lesser extent, the Greeks. It also appears that Romans disliked Syrians and hellenized Antotalians the most, believing them to be soft and effeminate. Juvenal, for example, mocked Ethiopians' dark complexions and chastised Romans for adopting Egyptian gods. Tacitus, for example, disliked Jews, and Cicero disliked both Syrians and Jews. Tacitus, on the other hand, praised the Germanic tribes for their simple lives and referred to them as noble, brave, and virtuous people. Moreover, some native Romans sounded like these white Americans or Europeans because they complained about Rome being run over by immigrants from Syria or Greece. Juvenal wrote about a Roman who lament about seeing hardly native Romans in Rome, and another author wrote that native Roman women prefer to flirt with all the foreign men rather than with true Romans.

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

Kind of makes you wonder where all those migrants went after the collapse of the Western empire, since genetics shows Europeans are genetically distinct from West Eurasians. There's some marginal crossover among Sicilians, but that's about it.

@Huehue-qf1ri

2 ай бұрын

Truth be told, unlike northern europeans, roman empire had much more relations and similarities with near east+greece. Religion (such as cybele-anatolian cybele cult, egyptian gods and various iranic cults in empire and then later Christianity-even the famous story of troy), economically eastern part were much more populous and productive. Even genetics wise you can look up to (oxford did if I remember right) genetics of city of rome at the time of roman empire on youtube-at its middle, eastern romans made more of city of rome.

@safs3098

2 ай бұрын

@@entropybear5847 Europeans, especially Southern Europeans aren’t actually distinct from Near easterners since Southern Europeans have the largest ancient Middle Eastern Farmer DNA share compared to the rest, which is why they even look more like them than they do to Northern Europeans

I used to be subbed to Invicta, then they took a Temu sponsorship.

makes sense especially on how rome expanded across the peninsula aggressively refusing to give citizenship rights to other latin tribes to retain a strong roman identity / culture and political power, instead of being assimilated into the surrounding tribal cultures eventually being forced by the social wars to give citizenship rights.

Un analisis muy acertado de la cosmovision en la antigua Roma

Catullus wrote a poem where he says about support for Caesar "I don't care if you are a white man or a black man ...". This comes across as Catullus emphasising his own liberal attitude. But this implies there were other people who were non liberal and would support people based on racial appearance.

thank you for fighting misinformation!!

I’m watching a really cool show that takes place during the reign of Claudius. It’s called Britannia and takes place when Aulus Platius takes troops back to Britannia. I’m sure it’s not super historically accurate but it’s a great drama. The costumes and sets are great the landscape, a lot of which were shot in the Czech Republic, are gorgeous and it’s really well acted if anyone enjoys period dramas

Did you make your farsetto? I love it each time I see you wearing it.

Septimius Severus did not hate Ethiopians, but he was superstitious because the color black was associated with death in ancient Roman culture. Keep in mind that Septimius merely ordered that the Ethiopian be removed from his sight because he was afraid, whereas the native Romans were terrified and beyond shocked since they even more superstitious than Severus, and they killed the Ethiopian who appeared out of nowhere.Aside from this context, Ethiopians could move and live in Rome alongside everyone else without being attacked.

@jesusrodriguez4849

2 ай бұрын

I'm just going to leave this here. There's a reason that Africans were so rare in Europe for millennia until modern imperialism. And trust me it's not a good reason.

Another great video, although I have a minor disagreement with your last point regarding the provincial Roman Emperors. While it is true that the early provincial emperors had familial and even blood ties with Italian families, by the third century, this was no longer a requirement. For example, the so called "Illyrian emperors" were not of Italian ancestry and depending on how far you want to take it from then on, Roman Emperors had no ethnic ties to "Italy" whatsoever. They climbed the ladder of power by military service, or in other words, merit.

@RPGryphus

2 ай бұрын

"the so called "Illyrian emperors" were not of Italian ancestry" Right. So I guess romans didn't fuck their way through conquered lands, nor did they colonize or migrate at all within the empire? No, they all had "Italian" ancestry and they for sure all looked roman. And you are just missing the entire point I think. Metatron said what he said as an answer to idiots claiming that some Emperors weren't romans by fact of not being born in Italy, and some going as far as claiming they were of different skin color or different culture. Metatron countered this claim by pointing to the fact that Emperors born out of Italy were still born from Roman family, and that is still true for Emperors born in Illyricum. Obviously, not all Emperors were born from good, wealthy and ancient roman family, but that's just moving the goalpost. As for your Italy remark, you are just being disingenuous. You know perfectly well what Metatron meant.

@metatronyt

2 ай бұрын

What do you mean when you say: "Roman Emperors had no ethnic ties to "Italy" whatsoever"?

@laisphinto6372

2 ай бұрын

IT seems people forget that Romans colonize ,for crying Out loud the Legions Pension was retirement on Farmland Most of IT IS in the provinces

@RPGryphus

2 ай бұрын

@@laisphinto6372 It is not that they forget, they just don't know their history and what little they know is from KZread channels like Kings and Generals or Netflix documentaries like Cleopatra or Alexander.

@quillo2747

2 ай бұрын

The illyrian emperors were descendents of roman colonisers in illyria. Sure they would likely have been taking culturaly romanised locals as wives but they were still descended from Italian romans. By your standard everyone in the USA today would be native american.

Thanks for the video!

I completely accept this. It was the cultural factors that strengthened differences.

People that suggest all 'bad' things are of modern origin tend to have other nasty habits.

@BattleBro77

2 ай бұрын

Nose picking and nail biting

@DagmarRokita667

2 ай бұрын

Most of bad things come from ancient Rome for some reason (like totalitarian society)

@SaintJames14

2 ай бұрын

Like hating White people

@secretname2670

2 ай бұрын

not washing your face and teeth in the morning does that to ya.

@barbarossarotbart

2 ай бұрын

I would not say that they have nasty habits, I would say that they are very naive.

Far too many people's brains can only think back to the transatlantic slave trade and the American Civil rights movement, and so completely miss huge swaths of history that make many of their conclusions seem pretty silly.

At 8.02 Luguvalium is mentioned. Is that modern day Carlisle in the north of England? If so, I've learned something about the history of my home town.

Racism has always been political, even racist ideologies, like nazism, made exceptions for political reasons

Hi Metatron, can you do a deep dive into Alexander the Great? The new film by Netflix which aren't known to be truthful to history has led to a lot of controversy plus it would be interesting to know more about him. Thank you!

Correct me if i've misread anything, though i'll add I'm pretty sure one of the biggest religions in the modern world (Christianity) stems from accepting both Jews and Gentiles into the kingdom of Heaven (Galations 3). If i recall, this ideology in the faith was very countercultural to the cultures at the time, both Jewish and Roman, so we can indirectly know just from this that the Roman's DID care about race, since the people who did preach interracial brotherhoods caused such controversy. The Jews at the time felt similarly, as that was why the story of the good samaritan was so significant. I think Invicta's grasping for straws a bit lol

Great video and I would love to see this to become a nice discussion. Also, I love both your channel's.

Hey Metratron- having seen Invicta's video, I enjoyed being able to add this additional context to my knowledge. Not that I want to beat a dead horse, but- the moment you said 'Alexandria'- it set off the deep need to ask this question: would you be able to- at some point, address the spread of Greek culture- specifically Hellenistic society in Egypt? I feel like people have this inherent widespread, but kind of vague awareness of the spread of the Roman Republic, & Empire- but there's less awareness of the Greeks doing so - despite the fact that there's a very good map of it on Wikipedia - perhaps because Ancient Rome is more popular as a topic for movies & documentaries - perhaps because Greece was not 'really' a unified empire, but multiple allied city-states, & incorporated by the later Macedonian kingdom, & took over the Persian Empire- maybe because they're simply further back in history. The point I'm getting at, in my terribly roundabout way- relates back to that gods-awful Cleopatra doco, but also in general - what feels like an inherent lack of understanding of the nuances in the make-up of ancient societies; like the fact that a Greek presence in Egypt that actually predates Alexander & the Ptolemies (whose dynasty was already almost 300 years old, by the time Cleopatra VII was born) was so completely ignored, beyond a shallow nod - I mean, there's evidence that Greeks in Egypt date back to the Late Period, & possibly even as far back as the New Kingdom era- being let settle in enclaves like Naucratis, by Pharaoh Amasis II & possibly his predecessor, too - & obviously, later on- they established cities like Alexandria, Berenice, Ptolemais, & so on. Greek peoples were in Egypt for *hundreds* of years- yes, largely as mercenaries & merchants, & occasionally scholars- but still, it shouldn't be ignored or denigrated. Sorry for the ramble- I hope you understand what it is that I'm trying to say... Lots of love & respect for all you do, from Australia! edit: word

I adore that the presenter uses classical pronunciation! "Kikero" all the way!

@Halo_Legend

2 ай бұрын

He's the whole deal, not just a presenter.

I think the takeaway from this should be the ancient peoples lived and saw things different to way we see things . Stereotype are given in human race especially in more advanced cultures throughout history and still today . I think for people to think racism is less than 200 year old phenomenon is delusional there would being other forms or prejudice instead or Aswel as that the fact the human race dislikes different. You just have take indigenous African or Native American or Polynesian’s when they first saw the European it would totally alien concept for them . Another good thought provoking video .

@barbarossarotbart

2 ай бұрын

It is even worse. People believe that racism is an european invention that no non-European culture was racist. That's wrong. Racism even the kind of racism which plagues societies to day is as old as mankind and exist everywhere.

@entropybear5847

2 ай бұрын

Actually I think you got it mixed up. I think modern people are troubled by the delusion WE'RE substantially different from the ancients. Nothing meaningful has actually changed in human psychology. Nothing at all. We're the exact same, and the inability to make peace with that seems to be causing us lots of neurosis as societies.

The election of Servius Tullius from slave to king, in my opinion, should tell us that these racial bias were quite superficial: after the first personal contact, ancient people seemed to give more value the peculiar characteristics of the single person. What I mean is that those bias were present, but not strong enough prevent a peer to peer interaction and the recognition of the others' values. This is a completely different forma mentis from the Spanish conquistadores or other modern approaches. This at least is my feeling, after reading some ancient authors like Livius or Caesar.

@Croz89

2 ай бұрын

I'm not so convinced it is. You can find plenty of stories of specific people from ethnic minorities being elevated above their peers in imperial era Europe, for example. Perhaps not all the way to royalty, but sometimes into high society. It's not always a sign that racism is superficial, just that a person with the right connections and typically a whole lot of talent and luck, can overcome it, to some extent.

I don't know if this is why I'm subscribed to your channel but I absolutely hate when people glorify the past incorrectly as if humans wasn't pieces of shit back when and even worse at killing each other over #insert reason.

@DagmarRokita667

2 ай бұрын

THIS

1:00 Wow... Society needs more of this and less "canceling".

@legueu

2 ай бұрын

Canceling you for that comment.

@AnimaVox_

2 ай бұрын

​@@legueu Oh, yeah? Well, I'm canceling you right now!

@claudiaxander

2 ай бұрын

I think you'll find in the usa it's the supposedly free speech right wing mob that wants to cancel "Accurate" depictions of american history in schools. ie: the civil war being fought over slavery and the obscenity of systemic racism and all its long term socio-economic effects . The US doesn't have federal requirements for teaching Black history in school curriculums, and only a handful of states have mandated it.

@declanjones8888

2 ай бұрын

​@@AnimaVox_ Oh yeah! Well I cancel all three of you!!

@AnimaVox_

2 ай бұрын

@@declanjones8888 Too late, I've already canceled myself!

If people's appearance can be used to determine what 'people' someone is, and what people they are ('culture' if you prefer) can be used to make statements about their moral character, then how exactly is this different then the modern concept of racism?

@elleanna5869

2 ай бұрын

Keeping it simple: modern racism comes out of Darwinism (Darwin himself probably disagreed) but once evolution theory stepped in , it became "who evolved further from apes?" And ended up with the answer being the Northern white Europeans" and providing whiteness charts. This was on tv shows in the US, still in the 50s and 60s. Ancient racism was more tribal. The better wasn't a particular skin tone. It was being my friend or at least an enemy of my enemy for land , survival and wealth conquest. Everyone against everyone not just "evil whitey oppressing blacks". And apes weren't in the script. Now there is a huge confusion but in Romans time you were inferior if you could not speak Greek and especially if you messed / resisted/ rebelled against the Empire. No matter how you could look. P.s. for the Ethiopian soldier, it's the same pattern with albinism or handicap especially in rural / traditional areas in Africa , if you are different from what we are used to and know it's ok with health and ordinary events, you must be a problem/curse/bad omen.

@opinionater9388

2 ай бұрын

@@elleanna5869 Charles Darwin lived 1809-1882. Was no one racist before the 1800s? The African slave trade started in the 1400s. So are you telling me there was no racism involved in that until Darwin published his famous book in 1859? What about all the colonization that happened before that time? Personally, I think you are wrong. None of us can go back to Rome to really talk to people about their thoughts so I guess we’ll just keep disagreeing

@Mammel248

2 ай бұрын

@@opinionater9388 Yes, it is wrong. Not only because of time but also region... were Arabs not racist? Iranians revolted against their Arab rulers not too long after the muslim conquests because of their racism. And are the Chinese for example not racist? I doubt they use a measure of "whiteness" to prove their racial superiority... People who think "white vs black" is strictly modern and didn't exist really need to open a history book; and people who think racism only involves white people being racist... also really need to open a history book.

@robo5013

2 ай бұрын

@@opinionater9388 The African slave trade wasn't a product of racism rather racism in the Americas was a product of the African slave trade. The African slave trade existed for centuries before Europeans began colonizing the Americas. West African nations sold other Africans as slaves to the North African countries ruled by Islam. When the Europeans began to colonize the Americas and decided that slave plantations were the best way to take advantage of the economic opportunities offered by the agricultural products available there they went to the existing, closest slave market in Africa.

@Moses_VII

2 ай бұрын

@@Mammel248 The best examples of racism existing in Muslim history are: 1. The Holy Prophet having to tell people that blacks and whites, Arabs and non-Arabs, are all equal, and explaining to them that Bilal the Abyssinian was equal to them. 2. The Umayyads literally inventing all the modern stereotypes which American racists use when talking about black people. (violent tendencies, excessive desire for food and sex, criminality, stupidity; those ideas go back to the people who killed Husayn, not to America and Europe)

Humans have indeed noticed physical differences for all of our recorded history, and probably long before that as well. We've also defined race with little to no regard for physical appearance...it was common in the 19th century for Europeans and Americans to divide each other into very specific "races," such as the Gallic (French) "race," the Teutonic (German) "race," and the Anglo-Saxon "race," etc etc. The term, its delimiting characteristics, and how it affected regard for others has migrated a great deal over time. I think the key difference between our concepts of race here in the U.S. vs those in the ancient Roman empire is that ours are pretty much entirely skin-color driven...which is a legacy of slavery as well as colonialism here in the Americas. The Romans took lots of other things into account, but it does seem to have been more driven by aligning physical and cultural traits...and not always to the disadvantage of the "other." Tacitus made a point of praising the Germanic peoples...using them as a way to criticize what he saw as flaws in his own society...kind of like the Enlightenment "noble savage" idea seen in writers like Diderot.

i think u should do a " response" video to " second punic war" video from Simplified History. Add more detail along the way