For my dirt rally buddies out there Test one: yes Test two: yes Test three: half (similar to project cars 2) Test four: half, (similar to iracing)

@frozetti434

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't expect to have my preferred sim recognized, thanks!

@andrievbastichy8551

2 жыл бұрын

ty bro!

In fact all Manual Transmissions can be shifted without clutch. Up and down. It does not hurt if done correctly. Similar to quickshifter or blipper on bikes. The magic lies within synchronized gears.

@treerexaudi

5 жыл бұрын

Heel toe

@jamiedh3036

5 жыл бұрын

This is correct, but is usually achieved at low revs at a fairly low, constant speed - but Frank is 100% it can be done.

@rostislavkocev5089

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I want to say.

@MegaFPVFlyer

5 жыл бұрын

It CAN be done, but the risk of missing a shift or damaging the transmission is way too high to be worth it in a racing scenario.

@viperconcept

5 жыл бұрын

Frank, what you say is true, but I challenge you to do that while racing. :P

Another thing I love from Assetto Corsa is that if you have a full setup (wheel, H-shifter and clutch), you can only use h-shifter on cars that use it in real life. And you can only use sequential shifting in cars that use sequential in real life too.

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

You can use H-Shifters on automatic/sequential cars, you just have to change a value in transmission.ini (if I'm not mistaken it's this file).

@Elkhose

5 жыл бұрын

@@piericroussel7479 but the intention of the game is to have the car work like real life which amazes me cz I like authenticity and hate to look up every race category what transmission or driving aids they use, I just want to drive like the real life discipline is

@vastsav9578

5 жыл бұрын

@Elmer Balentina The same thing happen and in GT sport.

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

@@vastsav9578I think R3E does that too.

@gypyoutb

5 жыл бұрын

I was disappointed by PCars 2 doesn't differentiate H-shifter cars just like AC, and also allows shifting without clutch. Just made me feel unnecessary to do some clutch-shifting.

Disappointed none of the cars "jumped" when you released the clutch on the first test

@jayplexy5983

5 жыл бұрын

In Project Cars 2 they do.

@RaceDriverMIKU

5 жыл бұрын

Press start engine with 1st gear or above and without clutch disengaged. They do jump, It's really a shame that Project CARS 2 always applies auto clutch when shifting without clutch. as I remember, auto clutch when shifting must be off by pressing a key on keyboard.

@PatalJunior

5 жыл бұрын

On Beamng Drive they DO!

@hugoyohola1

5 жыл бұрын

They do in iRacing, you just need to turn off anti stall in the settings

@ChizeSOI

5 жыл бұрын

They jump in Live For Speed which probably has the best clutch system out there.

Gran Turismo and IRacing sort of have it right. If the engine and transmission speeds are not synchronized, you might get locked out of the gear and will be stuck in neutral until corrected. It will feel like a wall is there until they are close to matching even though it's possible to force it, then that's when damage occurs. I think this implementations is because a controller shifter has no mechanical feedback so there's nothing to physically lock you out from shifting or feeling the grind of partially engaged gears. AC takes the route of damage because there's nothing physically stopping you for forcing it into gear.

@Oleg-oe1rc

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, if you shift very slowly and carefully, then gt and iracing are technically right. But if you hammer on the gears in the sim like a lot of people do, then AC is more accurate. PC2 also shreds your gearbox if you shift without clutch, he must have had damage off. That said, if you do it just right, you can shift a manual transmission, and even start it, without the clutch. Have had to do it on my E36 when the clutch pedal went out on the highway.

@blademirlima4708

5 жыл бұрын

I had a old Ford Escort and learned to shift the gear without th e clutch, one tim e it saved me when the clutch cable broke,and I managed to bring it back home running. Now I have a Corsa B and only can put it in neutral without the clutch. I don't want to force it, the repair is ducking expensive... Both of the games are right, it's different from car to car.

@Kasmuller

5 жыл бұрын

You get locked out in ac too

@kenesufernandez1281

3 жыл бұрын

❤️

@Wooskii1

2 жыл бұрын

@dekoldrick Exactly. I think it's the best solution if the game doesn't have drivetrain damage, a good middle ground.

But....but...but... You forgot the ultimate race sim Mario Kart 8...

@SSmallwood

5 жыл бұрын

y E s

@LCRandRC

5 жыл бұрын

First That’s A Family Race game,not a real life compared one,second,it doesn’t support clutch

@janen7385

5 жыл бұрын

Hot Wheels Stop Motion WOW HOLY SHIT YOU DON'T SAY

@lukatoprek936

5 жыл бұрын

@@LCRandRC r/whoosh

@mendozerosu2272

5 жыл бұрын

DDT the wii version was better innit

Wanna here a joke? Forza Horizon 4 clutch c:

@budaroddy

5 жыл бұрын

Hear

@DobieMeltfire

5 жыл бұрын

Surprising Forza Motorsport (I'm not sure which, I think it's FM3) has a really good clutch system including clutch damage. I'm not sure if it still apply for FM7 since the physic has been simplify for... ahem... Horizon racers.

@VictoGalvao

5 жыл бұрын

FM7 is like Project cars, even turned off, it still shifts with no problem at all, sad

@abekik2

5 жыл бұрын

The problem here is you have to press the clutch very Hard xD

@odrithingamajig

5 жыл бұрын

@@DobieMeltfire Ah yes, the dastardly Horizon players. They are the scum of the earth for they play an arcade game. If I came across as an arsehole, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. It's just that your reaction to the thought of Horizon racers was a bit silly, but I think it's perfectly fine if you don't like Horizon.

pc2 even allows you to push-start the car, just tested it on a steep location on the ring, turn off your car, put it in 2nd gear and hold your clutch until you reach about 10km/h, then quickly release your clutch, your engine should be running

@willpark7483

5 жыл бұрын

EraClawZ a bump start

@pizza_parker9689

4 жыл бұрын

EraClawZ damn

@18837ven

4 жыл бұрын

That’s really dope

@olevet75

Жыл бұрын

old school

The iRacing upshift is actually alright. you CAN force higher gear in without using clutch if you relase the throttle. And you can also properly upshift and downshift (downshift is MUCH harder) without clutch with synchronized gearbox. This doesn't work with full-on race cars though, as they usually have straight cut gears and no synchros. If you want to learn to shift without clutch in real life, get a 80's Nissan. Really easy and simple to do.

in iRacing, you should turn off "Anti stall clutch" option in driving aids menu. If you do so, engine will stall.

how gran turismo sports did not passed the 3rd test? it was literally the only game that managed to mimic a real transmission without clutch

@jamie-nc3dz

5 жыл бұрын

But, it was with the clutch

@salmanko5610

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@kenesufernandez1281

3 жыл бұрын

❤️

Test 4, iRacing. That's a pass. In a real car you csn shift without the clutch if you match the revs. I have owned cars where the clutch cable broke leaving the clutch unable to disengage. The test passed because if you let off of the accelerator pull the stick out of gear and hold it down against the next gear while leaving your foot off the accelerator it will eventually drop into the next year when the revs are matched between the engine and the gearbox. Watching your test run iRacing simulated this perfectly. Try it multiple times in a row in the same car (in game) going between the same two gears. It should be possible to shift both up and down without using the clutch provided that the game simulates the proper delay and it should give you a slight gear grinding sound. the up shift will leave a delay before switching into the next gear. downshifting should work if you heel toe without using the clutch but again there should be a delay until the RPMs drop down before going into gear. in both cases the car should visibly jerk a little. in a real car to shift without using the clutch you want to pull it out of gear as you're letting your foot off the accelerator and without pushing the clutch. Then hold the stick against the next gear with light pressure. As the RPMs fall the stick will eventually plunk into the gear. downshifting is the same except you must rev the the engine up since the target RPM for the Rev match is higher than the current RPM. other than that the process is exactly the same hold it against the gear and wait for the RPMs to drop and it will plunk in. just to be clear folks this is not a suggested activity this is scientific data. if you go out and ruin your car trying to reproduce What I described above it's your own dumbass fault. this is one of those emergency techniques that you use to get an already ruined car home. Then you forgot one test. stopping the car in gear without pushing in the clutch. of course you know it should lunging jerk to a stop killing the engine. thanks for the great science I wish I could have written this in Italian.

@shindiscord6541

5 жыл бұрын

You're right, you can shift without the clutch if revs are matching, however sim games do't really have "pushing gently on the stick" you can just stick it into gear, if you try to do it without rev matching you should get transmission damage (not a broken one straight away ofc) as long as the revs aren't close enough, and when they are close enough the car goes into gear. So it shouldn't really just wait gently in neutral until revs are close enough. (so basically the same system as in iRacing but with transmission damage added)

@SimontornyaOffroad

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's correct. Once my dad drove 150km without clutch, because the clutch cable is broken.

@francescomecca3783

5 жыл бұрын

I was about to write the same thing mate! I hope he sees it :)

@francescomecca3783

5 жыл бұрын

Ti faccio un sunto del fenomeno perché forse in italiano ti è più facile. Quando i giri dell'albero motore si eguagliano a quelli dell'albero di trasmissione è possibile anche irl cambiare senza frizione, questo fenomeno avviene circa a 2000-2500 giri per le utilitarie quindi se ne hai una puoi provarci! A me è capitato per 2 giorni di doverlo fare perché si ruppe lo spingidisco e in alcuni casi, sopratutto con la scalata era necessario.

@JZStudiosonline

5 жыл бұрын

@@shindiscord6541 I noted that PCars 1 actually had rev matching. You could shift at 3000 and 6000 rpm, but if you were off it would just grind gears.

In assetto corsa, kunos cars can start from 0 rpm (Engine off) because the torque figure is set up to actually produce power even with the engine stalled. If the torque value is set on 0 at 0 rpm, the car won't start, unless you press the clutch or disengage the transmission. I don't know why kunos chosed to put torque at 0 rpm, but the simulation model on assetto still acts real when everything is set correctly. There are car mods that can prove what I'm saying

@SheetFiber

5 жыл бұрын

what is the mod name? will there be a starter sound effect?

@MondoMarcy94

5 жыл бұрын

@@SheetFiber never heard a starter sound on assetto corsa unfortunally, if I'm not wrong the Ford focus made by beto is a good example. You can find it at bz simworks of facebook

@leonlange861

5 жыл бұрын

I will try it myself putting the torque in the power.lut file on 0 at 0rpm tomorrow

@Wimbold

5 жыл бұрын

It's just weird. In neutral it won't idle at zero rpm, but in any gear it will.

@leonlange861

5 жыл бұрын

@@Paoktsisgat4 but does your car start when you apply the throttle without turning the key, pressing the starter button, whatever you have?

PC2 destroys your transmission if you shift without the clutch.

@RayznGames

5 жыл бұрын

He didnt had the damage ON i said it hope he reads it :)

@e01nerv

5 жыл бұрын

it does not on PC. i have the damage set to on auto-clutch off. it's the only reason why i play AC more than PC2. sucks really

@arthurmendes6323

5 жыл бұрын

If you just set the damage as ON on PC2, it will not be realistic damage. Change it to "realistic". Then you will see the damage being done to the clutch. But not only that, you will see fuel consumption, tyre degradation, aero damages (even the slightest ones) all get realistic.

@e01nerv

5 жыл бұрын

@@arthurmendes6323 yes everything is as real as it gets. You can try for yourself. I'd be amused if you get the car fail to shift or wreck the gearbox at any rpm without pressing clutch

@arthurmendes6323

5 жыл бұрын

Been there, done that. With the Damage set on "Realistic", auto-clutch set as off, if I did not rev-match the tranny and the engine, tranny damage. Try it. Don't be an AC fanboy.

For the first test: why does iracing get a pass and wreckfest a fail when they both do the exact same thing? Also: nothing strange for the 3rd test with iRacing, you can shift without a clutch. just have to find the right rev to synch the gearbox and engine. (that's why you could pass some gears but not some others, not the right rev for the speed) Also, PC2 you get transmission damage for shifting without clutch.. you just don't have damage on. IMO, FInal results should be : 6 - 6 -7 - 5 -2 .

@stpbasss3773

4 жыл бұрын

Also project cars2 he complained how it shifts slow when he has it set like that🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ it's set at 50 default which is super slow anyone who plays the game puts it at 0 or like 5 lol.

>Can't upshift without releasing the throttle >Test NOT PASSED I think I didn't understand

@viperconcept

5 жыл бұрын

Basically: in-game you can't do something you can do in real life.

@wagge2103

5 жыл бұрын

Well you know its pretty simple. By pressing the clutch you disconnect the engine from the gearbox, so the engine now can rev as high or low as it wants, the gearbox isnt affected and spins just as fast as it would if the throttle was released, which means a gear change is possible anyway ^^

@solaireofludomedia1323

5 жыл бұрын

@@wagge2103 So the engine revs up as it is in Neutral but you can upshift without any problem

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

@@solaireofludomedia1323 yes, it just creates a HUUUGE load on the transmission, which is why it's not recommended (so that includes launches too).

@wagge2103

5 жыл бұрын

@@solaireofludomedia1323 exactly ^^

BeamNG will win in all these tests, I tested and was impressed with the result. There's even a car starts to twitch if you throw the clutch pedal!

Not sure If I understand what video creator meant but in real life you can start a car while it is on 1st gear without pressing clutch. Give it throttle and start engine it will move :) It is common technique if someone have problems with clutch. Gears can be changed without clutch at specific RPM.

@Trigiron

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, the starter cranks the engine and if you're in first gear then your transmission is going along for the ride.

@reacts

5 жыл бұрын

My car won’t even start if the clutch isn’t in

@codemy666

5 жыл бұрын

@@reacts I think most newer cars don't allow starting itself without pressing the clutch to prevent you from accidentally moving

@someweeb3650

5 жыл бұрын

Assetto Corsa still gets it wrong, with how much torque you get from 0 RPM

@Blazs120gl

5 жыл бұрын

What happens when one tries starting the engine while in first gear in a stick shift, depends also on the region the car is sold. Some US market stick shift cars won't engage the starter until the clutch and/or brake is applied. This is not a mechanical limitation but a built-in safety feature to prevent accidental rollout. However, most models sold on European markets will engage the starter unconditionally. This makes it possible to escape from situations where the engine has stalled/malfunctioned on a ciritical spot, e.g. a railroad crossing. Most starters are geared to be able to reach the engine operational RPM (around 120 RPM is good enough to bring it up to idle speed) in first gear even while the car is only powered by the starter. Since the starter motor and battery sees a wide band of operational conditions (e.g. -30 degC oil with a weak battery), they are well over-geared in starting RPM. I knew someone who lost the clutch on his diesel van and he made it home by staying in second gear, killing the engine on traffic lights by braking and rolling out with the starter. I'm not saying it's good for the starter but it can definitely do it. So, in a simulation I would expect a powerful car to roll out and reach idle by cranking in first. Of course not full throttle, as some of the cars interpret cranking+flooring = flood clear, so no fuel is injected.

PC2 actually had proper clutch behavior with auto clutch off at release. In addition, shift times varied depending on the car so that it took a bit of time for the transmission to get into gear after moving the shifter. People complained about not being able to row through the gears at lightspeed in the 66 mustang or whatever and got rid of the shift times and SMS dumbed down the clutch behavior.

8:52 Power shifting :)

No beamNG.drive?? :(

@marziomoretti6167

5 жыл бұрын

there's not enough love for this game

@derblaue

5 жыл бұрын

@@marziomoretti6167 It'd destroy all sims in this category.

@marziomoretti6167

5 жыл бұрын

@@derblaue only rfactor is safe

@marziomoretti6167

5 жыл бұрын

when you change gear without clutch, it even calculates the damage on THAT GEAR, so you can still use the other ones if you did't break them (just like in real life)

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

@@marziomoretti6167 I don't know if you're talking about rFactor, but if yes BeamNG.drive does it too. It even has a clutch temperature simulation where if it overheats it'll slip like a real one, and you can even damage many engine parts by overheating it.

Why not put BeamNG.drive for a test some time? It's a pretty solid driving simulator, despite being a bit rough on its edges and has outdated graphics compared to these games.

5 жыл бұрын

Beam NG will shift but give you transmission damage and a warning "use the clutch!" The car would stall if you don't rev it enough when starting like in PC2 wheels locks if you don't heeltoe. SO the result would be : T1 : 2 T2 : 2 T3: Didn't test that T4 : 1, because you can shift, you just take damages.

@vali69

5 жыл бұрын

@ thats the point of the last test (t4) to see if the transmission takes damage like in real life when you shift without using the clutch... Beam would get a perfect score on that cause it even calculates how much damage you take and you can even destroy the entire transmission...

@vali69

5 жыл бұрын

@ also test 3 is a perfect pass as well... You can shift with the throttle fully pressed and it works just fine... Depending on the car and engine you could in pass the red line and damage the engine xD

14:30 - it is rev matching as you would do driving with a broken clutch irl

@drdriukas9433

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@MiGujack3

4 жыл бұрын

Can confirm. Clutch went out, drove 200km like that on the autobahn anyway. Just do it right, there is still risk of damage but it's not catastrophic. I still have the gearbox with 360.000km

Gran turismo 5 music such a throwback

Beamngdrive clutch system is reallt cool, you can even burn the clutch, have gearbox issues, etc

Regarding test #4 for PC2: Automatic clutch only enables you to set off from the standstill without using the clutch pedal - it's an assist that is there so players with 2 pedals can drive at all. And there's a reason PC2 allows you to shift without depressing the clutch: during testing the game had a proper no-clutch shift simulation where the gears would grind and all that stuff (like in Dirt Rally for example) BUT the testers were complaining that the shifts were missing even if they had done it "properly". They found out that they were trying to slam the next gear in without depressing the clutch fully or missing the gear engagement point with the clutch disengagement point so they just did away with this.

Just FYI, you can technically start a car with a gear engaged and without pressing the clutch: thing is that it's going to be really jolty and that's going to put a lot of stress on the starter motor. Concerning the clutchless upshifts, they are also possible with consumer grade gearboxes but require a decent grade of finesse: with you feathering the throttle while gently but firmly and usually the gear slides in. Coming to racing grade gearboxes most of them being sequential (and dog leg, back in the day) are "requiring" you to upshift without releasing the throttle and sometimes without even touching the clutch at all :)

@Sojonen

3 жыл бұрын

You are right! I broke my clutch cable on my old car ones and had to start it in gear and drive a couple of miles home without a clutch. Gearshifts where fine if you just shift carefully and on the right rps.

Yeah, I'd recommend you do test #4 again, it should be possible to engage a gear without using the clutch. However you do need the right engine speed for it to work right. Most 70's and 80's racecars have gearboxes designed in such a way that you can just slam them into the next gear as long as you are not on the throttle. Obviously this only works on upshifts and not downshifts.

On my car (peugeot 207, year 2008, basic model, so the definition of a "normal" car) there is something mechanical that avoids the shifting without clutch BUT only if your rpm are not adequate. You can go to neutral but not insert a gear. This will explain the iRacing slow upshifting case on test 4, there is no hardware that blocks you to inserting the gear so the game is waiting in neutral that the rpm is on a certain range and then insert the new gear when physically possible. The transmission damage on my car are only possible on "half states" like not inserting the gear completely but only halfway before releasing the clutch, or by pressing a bit the friction to unlock that safety hardware but not enough to not scratch. So for me iRacing should be considered passed.

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

That's an interesting system, i'll see if my 306 has it, never heard that a manufacturer actually put this in place...

@Jakkio

5 жыл бұрын

@@piericroussel7479 I had a 306 station wagon before and it didn't have this system. Mine is also the only car i tried that have it, maybe it's pretty rare or limited of a specific year, i really don't know much about it. And personally i also hate it because it sometimes there is a "bug" that doesn't let you to go to neutral without pressing clutch with low rpm and low gears. I always fight with traffic so i need to press clutch every fucking meter just to go to neutral, it's really frustrating. Maybe it's just a bad habit of mine.

@dekoldrick

5 жыл бұрын

My 93 Honda Accord does the same thing. If the RPM's don't match and you try to shift without the clutch, it locks out that gear until the RPM's match close enough to the transmission speed. It will grind a bit if not done perfectly. Had to shift without the clutch to get home when my slave cylinder went out.

@Geffect94

5 жыл бұрын

My MG the same

@ggooaa100

5 жыл бұрын

The old Suzuki Swift I'm learning on has even a mechanism where Im pressing the clutch to shift back from 2nd to 1st and if you are going "too fast" it will not allow you to put it in gear only just when you are slow enough..

maybe assetto passed the upshift test because automatic engine cutoff (cuts the gas off for upshifts) was turned on...

IMO the test #3 results are backwards. In a real car, you cannot shift “instantly” as you can in some of these games. In a synchronized transmission, the synchro rings prevent engagement of a gear until the input shaft speed matches the intended gear. Unfortunately, it is not possible for the game to prevent the movement of your shifter, so the most realistic solution is to delay the shifting mechanism virtually. It’s also worth noting that a dogbox (like you will find in a race car) does not have synchros, and can therefore shift much more quickly. Care should be taken to compare similar cars in game. I mean these comments constructively, of course. I always appreciate your effort and sharing.

Actually, for the 4th test, iRacing and Assetto both allow upshifts without clutch only if you don't press the throttle while in neutral. And in a particular case in iRacing, the Skip Barber doesn't have the auto cut-off when upshifting, despite having a sequential gearbox. You have to do it yourself, or use the clutch. And IRL, it's possible to upshift without the clutch, but it needs a perfect synchronization between gearbox, throttle and RPM. So it's necessary to drive the car (or bike, it works too) for a long time.

@s1nenomine

5 жыл бұрын

So, back again, after a training session with the Lotus 49 on iRacing, and after trying to up and downshift fastly without my clutch (and any assist ofc), I successed at every gear change. it's just, as AC a timing issue.

Clutchless shifting is a technique that is used along with leftfoot brake in rally racing. Check out Team O'Neal Rally School's video. iRacing got it right if you ask me.

In the last test, project cars 2 you had no damage activated look at the right corner at the bottom of the vid, it you had damages ON it should be green, if not it appears blue-cloud, maybe that's why, you didn't break the gearing. hope you retry it cuz i actually dont remember if you can break it!! Retry pleaase! Love your vids! Keep it up!

@stpbasss3773

4 жыл бұрын

He Also has his shift time set to 50 which is super slow and then says that's the problem with the game lmao, the first thing I did was put my shift time at 5 some people run 0 so it shifts right away. Kinda bugged me because nobody even noticed it and people who haven't played the game will think shifting is really slow.

@RayznGames

4 жыл бұрын

@@stpbasss3773 Freakin true

@dimensionsfly7494

4 жыл бұрын

@@stpbasss3773 how can I change the shift time?

You should have tested a clutch start (start releasing the clutch slowly) to see if the clutch in racing games is modulated or more like an on/off switch.

As well as the problems that other people have stated. Some cars, mostly diesel can move off from a standstill by just releasing the clutch slowly without using the accelerator at all

Yes, you finally made this video! I asked you a long, long time ago whether you noticed the problem with auto-clutch in pc2. Apparently the "shifting with no clutch" bullshit was done intentionally, and the only thing that auto clutch did is prevent your engine from stopping at low speeds. That was my biggest gripe with the game

@slv_jonathanc15

5 жыл бұрын

Have you tried older cars? Some of them won't let you shift without clutch, and normally newer cars would let you shift without clutch, even in real life, so what you are saying is not exactly at all and sometimes it has happened to me that the game gets bugged (PS4 Version)

@HoriaM29

5 жыл бұрын

@@slv_jonathanc15 Nope, literally any car will allow you to shift without using clutch, even those you should not be able to.

0:20 THAT SONG ❤

@azrenalmanza9748

5 жыл бұрын

Do you happen to know what that song is?

@jackhill2168

5 жыл бұрын

Leonardo Rugai I last heard this in gran turismo 5 if I’m right

14:40 iRacing: if you keep the shifter in gear, iRacing simulates you pushing the shifter the entire time. when the RPM sink and reach a level where the synchros can grab the gears, it will slide into gear. It will also do this with sequential gear boxes if you hold your sequential shifter or shift paddle in the position. For example if you forget to shift into 1st before the start, in the Skip Barber, and you rev the engine and then pull the shift paddle, you will hear a grinding noise. Hold the paddle down while the RPM drop and you will hear the pitch of the grinding tone down. When you are only a little bit over the idle RPM the gearbox will suddenly slip into the gear and the car slightly launches forward. That is, in my eyes, a very cool implementation.

Finally, somebody has examined this. Thank you Viper Concept!

How about the biting point

@majinpacks

5 жыл бұрын

I think since the cars usually just dont react to having it in gear and releasing the clutch there is no biting point as well as in the cars that die they only feel that the clutch is either in or out not so much where its grabbing

@mistakendawg8885

3 жыл бұрын

There are biting points that can be set by adjusting the clutch sensitivity for pc2

Clutch club for the win

@randomautist1593

5 жыл бұрын

uhh what

you can shift gears without clutch. works perfect. but with clutch it is more easy and comfortable

Also regarding test #4, iRacing is simulating a real shifter. You can shift a real synchromesh equipped car without using the clutch. The synchros will prevent engagement of the desired gear until the input shaft matches the desired gear. With the clutch engaged, this means you must wait on engine RPM to fall for upshifts, or rise for downshifts.

lots of mistakes by you viper. 1. you can release the clutch, slowly, and the vehicle will simply take off, if it is a flat road, the idling engine should make it move off... 2. you can quite easily shift gears without using the clutch. remember, these are RACING games... RACING cars will have a dogbox (use google) you will only need to lift off slightly to change gears. with a throttle cut, you don't even need to lift off... look at something like the v8 supercars foot cam... they shift without using the clutch 3. you can downshift easily with any synchromesh transmission without using the clutch, it requires you to jab the accelerator to match the revs of the engine and the gearbox, and it will simply just go in.

@gijs.22

5 жыл бұрын

Sam K it doesn’t even have to be flat i have done loads of uphill starts while only using the clutch in an 80hp car

@WildStyle

5 жыл бұрын

In AC while downshifting you can shake the car down a gear without clutch. :D If you fail to downshift it with rev matching, jab the brake, I found it very amusing for some reason. :D

@DDS029

5 жыл бұрын

Look up Jericho Transmissions, or T-101 from G-Force Racing Transmissions.

@RicardoPestana

4 жыл бұрын

1. It depends of the car/engine. It's more common with diesel engines because of the low rpm torque

Music giving me nostalgia from grand turismo 5

Without using the clutch it is very possible to shift your car without destroying your transmission. It is similar to your Heel-Toe technique used for downshifting, except you do it for both up and downshifting: you rev match. You have to know at which RPM the transmission will allow the gears to slip into each other without grinding together. Truckers do this, we call it "floating" as there are no synchromesh gears on tractor trailers, so you must rev-match even when using the clutch in order to allow the transmission to go into gear. Thus.. we just don't use the clutch except for complete stops and going into first gear. A lot of race transmissions are the same way, they eliminate the synchromesh gears, and I forgot what the gears are called that they use, but with those you can simply slam them into gear. It takes a bit of man-handling but you can and they won't break. Of course it's much easier to just rev-match. In iRacing, I sometimes don't use the clutch when racing. I just rev match. How you do it in real life is, a little but of throttle input is needed to release the car from gear, to downshift simply rev up to the correct RPM and lightly push it into gear, if it grinds you did it wrong. To upshift, you let the engine speed slow down until it's in the correct RPM then push it into gear. If you grind..you did it wrong. That's what you were experiencing with iRacing taking a long time to let it get into gear when it would work. The car was dropping to the correct RPM for it to be able to allow you to upshift without using the clutch. In real life you would have grinded the living hell out of your gears. The mooore you knooow.

14:40 The shifting is possible when the sync gears match in rpm, just like in real life! Upshifting without clutch is frequently used by truckers, if you don't force the stick it's even possible in everyday cars! Without any damage!

Geez... Get some actual knowledge about cars. If you stall the engine you are not flooding it with fuel, you just overcome the engine torque at low rpm to bring it to a halt, and when an engine comes down to a halt it will not start up on its own. You can start a car up without a clutch if your starter is powerfull enough. Also sometimes the engine doesn't have enough inertia to lock the wheels up when downshifting, so yet another useless test which doesn't proove anything. Shhifting without releasing the gas pedal is in fact ppossible and sometimes used in drag racing so your tests are yet invalid once more. You just have to do it quick enough and in a car with syncromesh trans (nearly every modern road car has one). Shifting without a clutch? Easy, done hat many times even with 20 tons on my hitch and going uphill, little rev matching ans you can do it without any issues. You should have tested BeamNG.drive, as that game has everything you need in a racing game as far as clutch simulation goes

@viperconcept

5 жыл бұрын

"You can start a car up without a clutch if your starter is powerfull enough" Yeah, that's best way to break your starter if you keep doing that. Then you talk sh*t about my knowledge... "Shifting without releasing the gas pedal is in fact possible" never said it was impossible. Tell me on the video where I told it was impossible in real life. Are you making up excuses just to criticize me? Or simply didn't you pay attention on what you read? "done hat many times even with 20 tons on my hitch and going uphill, little rev matching ans you can do it without any issues" Doing it with a truck is 1 thing. Doing it with a car while racing is a whole different thing. Once again, I never said in real life was impossible.

@aitorror3659

5 жыл бұрын

@@viperconcept noone said that you shouldn't be able to damage the starter by starting without the clutch. Your tests weren't really scientific at all, since you didn't provide an example of doing the exact same thing IRL

@viperconcept

5 жыл бұрын

Ai Torror if you use the starter multiple times to start moving your car without clutch, yes you damage it. Even my mechanic told me. That makes me doubt about your knowledge. About doing the tests IRL I can't use my car like a lab rat since I need it and I don't have the money to repair it in case of damages. Why don't use your car IRL to use the starter to move the car without clutch? If you're sure that won't cause damage to the starter, do it for about 1 or 2 weeks, or forever if you want. Do it for science. You're so sure about yourself after all, aren't you?

@newklear2012

5 жыл бұрын

But it is fucking possible or not ? You said in your fucking video that it shouldn't move ! Now your going by mechanics recommendations lool wtf, if we going by that way we shouldn't even fucking RACE !

@PacoRobbins

5 жыл бұрын

Most cars can be tuned for flat foot shifting now, be it through N2MB WOT Box or through a tuning handheld. I use my Accessport on my Speed3 and I've got several friends that use a WOT Box.

Test automobilista game

There's a ROBLOX game called Project TrackDay, in which you're absolutely unabled to switch gears if you don't release the throttle (unless you're using semi-auto transmission mode)

14:40 - iRacing is close to reality regarding the shifting, in IRL you can shift gears without using the clutch and breaking the gearbox, it's a long and complicated explanation, but with most ordinary cars you can change gears without pressing the clutch at around 2000-2200 Revs on diesel and 2400-2600 on petrol, "safest" way to try it is to be in second or first gear and go up on the revs while pulling very slowly the shifter, when it reaches the target mentioned above, it will just pop out of gears. This is more for situations where you're clutch pedal is "out of commission"...

In PC2 if i upshift without clutch the engine will go very slow in gear and with a lot of Revs. Also you get a little engine damage. Sorry for english..

@hoen2009

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah if you look at the bottom right you see that he had all damage turned off..............

Umm. Doesnt project cars 2 have 3 settings for the clutch. Off, manual and manual + clutch. Im pretty sure you were only using the manual setting which means you have to switch gears but the clutch is not needed

@dylancotton2061

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah. And he has damage off so the game wouldn't be able to react realistically anyway

@stpbasss3773

4 жыл бұрын

Also there is an option to adjust how quick it shifts and he complained about how slow it shifts lmao what a genuis

1:50 1st test (start moving without pressing the clutch) 5:35 2nd test (downshifting without heel-toe technique) 8:45 3rd test (upshifting without releasing the throttle) 12:48 4th test (shifting without using the clutch pedal)

Years I have wondered these tests. You have answered my questions, thank you.

Theres alot of parts in this video where your logic is only half correct about real life scenario

Wow I can't believe it.. I have Forza Motorsport 3 Motorsport not horizon! It came out 2009! When you shift without clutch you can totally hear the gear grinding and you have 4% damaged transmission = slower shifting if you don't go to pit for fixing it I hope the game developers realize that mistake and make it at least a little realistic in a full sim game....

You can start most older manual cars in gear, without pressing the clutch. It will be a rolling start, but it works. Done it myself to see what would happen. You can move a manual with a dead engine by putting it in first gear and letting the starter motor do all the work. It will get hot, but it does the job

Good video idea but some things: - When you release the clutch pedal with no gas (depending on car type if gas is needed) on a standing car too quickly, it does not drown the engine with fuel thta it can't burn. The engine is simply too weak to push the car so the RPM go too low and the engine turns off. It's like trying to push a car by running against it. - As I already kind of mentioned, the engine will push the car when the clutch is released even without gas. Means that if you properly release the clutch and the car doesn't need additional gas, the car will drive without you hitting the gas pedal, which is the reason why you have to hit the clutch when stopping the car. Why wasn't that tested since that's a detail many games are lacking? - What are you doing when you downshift? You basically just need to hit thee clutch, not all pedals at once. That just doesn't make sense.

You should make some videos about BeamNG.drive, maybe compare it with full sims or simply complete some scenario By the way, in iRacing if you don't use the clutch the game selects the gear when the engine speed matches the transmission speed (rev matching, you can do it on every car)

The last test for pc2 is wrong.. do IT with A car that dosent have auto clutch installed

@viperconcept

5 жыл бұрын

I tried it with that Civic, the Corvette Z06 and the EVO X. Still the same :-/

@sindrehansen958

5 жыл бұрын

@@viperconcept but i think its different with example the ferrari gto in the beginning of the vid

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

@@sindrehansen958 the cars he listed never had auto-clutch.

@RagnosUTzone

5 жыл бұрын

@@viperconcept Try it again with damage enabled. Once I even managed to kill a sequential transmission, it should be possible with a h-shifter...

@hoen2009

5 жыл бұрын

@@RagnosUTzone Pretty much this, you had all damage of.

Live For Speed has the best transmission simulation I've seen. There is no way to damage the transmission, but you can burn up the clutch and destroy the engine by over revving it. The car stalls as expected, jerks when the revs are too low, and can be moved under the power of the starter. Additionally the cars can be shifted without the clutch and will fall into gear when the RPM lines up. When the car is stalled it remains in the run position, meaning you must press the ignition twice to restart the car. Because of this the car can be bump started after stalling by dumping the clutch while rolling as you would in a real car. LFS has a free demo, where you can test all of this for yourself.

@kingtiger3390

5 жыл бұрын

The only downside is that the clutch is not getting worn out, it's getting hot. It can cool down and be as good as new in a matter of time.

in every car with manual gearbox, it actually works to upshift without using clutch, but you have to release gas and then push the next gear and wait for revs to synchronize

Maybe in someone's Mind *"For God Sake, it just A GAME!!"*

@politicscigarettes8420

5 жыл бұрын

But the point of a simulation is to resemble the real world as much as possible

@Elkhose

5 жыл бұрын

You are in a simulation and your life is just a game... so a game within a game may well be the real thing, you know double negation

@lifterb6291

5 жыл бұрын

yeah lmao I would just go drive my little shitbox because it's manual transmission

@heatxtm

5 жыл бұрын

didn't you read that he wrote "maybe in someone's mind" ???

@ArshadChengadu

5 жыл бұрын

@@professorfrog7181 Yeah he was joking...

1:27 ehhhh not exactly, you just literally stop the engine. it has nothing to do with fuel.

My dad used to show me he can upshift without pressing the clutch. At a certain rpm, depending on the car, the engine and transmition are syncronized and you can ease your way through the gears without clutch. And it never damanged the transmision cuz he wasnt forcing the upshit. It felt normal, just like he would use the clutch

For test one the car will move in real life, it’s because the engine is still running and moves the entire transmission. It’s like revving in neutralwith clutch engaged, putting it in first and engaging the clutch the car will move

Some cars can shift up even without clutch

@Tazzman835

5 жыл бұрын

brodeur212 Most cars can shift both up and down without clutch. You just have to match the rpm with the gear you want to shift to, then it’s no problem to shift without a clutch, also in a standard manual transmission car.

@treerexaudi

5 жыл бұрын

some

@piericroussel7479

5 жыл бұрын

Every single manual transmission car can, in fact it was the norm before. You just have to do it properly. You can even start without the clutch, but it's even harder than rev-matching.

@sergioh2015

5 жыл бұрын

@@piericroussel7479 once my clutch fluid went out had to start it so many times at each intersection but eventually made it home!

Buongiorno

Project cars 2 is by far my favorite "racing" simulator game out there, I have over 700 hours in it and absolutely love it. especially in VR.

@stpbasss3773

4 жыл бұрын

Funny how he doesn't know you can adjust the shift time and then calls it a problem 😂. It's slow because he has it on the default settings of course it shifts slow, you play the game like I do so you know that BS the shifts are very days if set at 0 or 5 or something really low.

When you press the start button the car should immediately move, and probably you can also turn it on if accelerate

He should've included BeamNG drive, it's a very realistic car game.

I think that PC2 should correct that thing about the automatic clutch, its just a quick thing to fix. I'm from Argentina, do you think that i would be able to join the next Car Roulette on PC2?

@GamerGius

5 жыл бұрын

Jugas en pc o en ps4?

@tecnoarg1

5 жыл бұрын

@@GamerGius PC

@chalovak

5 жыл бұрын

I thought they fixed it in the recent update. I can’t change gears without the clutch now, though before the update I didn’t even bother to use it, because I knew it wasn’t working.

@HandlesSuck123

5 жыл бұрын

@@chalovak Oddly enough, some cars allow you and some cars though. Usually the more vintage cars don't let you shift without the clutch

@slv_jonathanc15

5 жыл бұрын

@@HandlesSuck123 that's because now recent cars have new engineering that allows you to change gear without clutch if needed

That PSP intro brings back so many memories. Awesome video btw.

It's possible. I am used to doing it. You just need to match the RPM's perfectly (and the gearstick will even slide to the next gear, no force needed at all), which, if you're a reasonable driver, you can do it. It's not advisable, of course, but when needed it's handy. (for example: when your clutch breaks and you need do drive it home or to the nearest safe place to fix.

*Assetto corsa > All*

Subtítulos en español please 🤗🤗🤗🤗

@slv_jonathanc15

5 жыл бұрын

Sería de gran ayuda para muchas más personas!

Great content as always, I think I am going to buy myself a racing wheel with pedals! I bet it a great fun over the normal joypad! 🏁🏁🏁

There is indeed a way to change gears without a clutch without any damage to transmition. The way it works is that the gears that actually spin during not pressing the pedal match the speed of the main gear and in that test in the game you can shift gears without the pedal only in the rpm that the gear rotation speed is equal to the main transmition gear rotation speed, and that does not damage any parts tho.

On the first test you said that the engine will turn off when put in gear but has no acceleration input but that is mostly incorrect for street cars. One the things that I realized when I started driving is that you don't need the accelerator to start moving the car. For example: If you have your brakes pressed and the car is stopped, put the first or reverse gear in and slowly release the clutch until you feel the car or steering wheel shake a little bit, then you also slowly release the brakes and the car will start moving. This works on basically any street vehicle, some due to lower efficiency on low revs might not do it, but mostly will move. In time, the engine will turn off in race cars with special gearboxes because those require a greater amount of torque and friction to start moving.

Dirt Rally 2.0 has a fairly well presented clutch action. Stalls motor, bad clutching causes missed shifts, etc. I use a g25.

DiRT: Rally has probably got the best clutch support in game. The car properly stalls and jumps forward a little bit, like a real car. They also have that technique of changing gear without releasing the clutch pedal and if done incorrectly, the car will have a damaged gearbox. The car can stall completely and then the car will have to be turned on again by clutch down and throttle down at the same time. I think DiRT: Rally has the best clutch system this generation.

Didn’t think I’d find what I was looking for, but this is exactly it. Thanks a bunch for the work you put into this!

In 14:50, the iRacing is correct, the gear will engage after the rpm goes down, but in real life, the transmission will be damage after do that, the transmission will make much noise of miss gear until it gets the correct rpm for the gear. Sorry for bad english.

I think personally that gt sport and assettocorsa are the best racing game. Assetto is a little bit simulator and gt is a little bit more arcade. If you play gt sport you wanna have fun with a bit of realism (it's enjoyable also with the dualshock controller) , if you wanna have realistic race as possible but also enjoyable you play assetto ( but you need a full set). I'm very surprised about the implement of the cluth in gtsport. Bravo viper ottimo video. ❤️ ti seguo da sempre

I just want to add that with a simple mod, the good old GPL fully supports H-Shifters.

You need test #5: power control with clutch. Press the throttle, and use clutch to control power. Its very important feature in racing, especially in drift, because throttle have inertia, and you can't control power precisely, clutch apply effect immediately.

On project cars 2 you have auto turn on engine, switch it off and you ll need to start up like in real life, and btw, when you re releasing the clutch you dont drown the engine, you are simply forcing it to move when it doesnt have the power to at those revs, so it just stops. You can drown an engine, for example, if it s carburated, you turn it on and want to accelerate, it sometimes will just shut down because you drown it

You can get a car moving without the clutch by starting it in gear and flooring the accelerator, it's bad for the engine, but you can do it, you'll get lots of shuttering with lower power engines too.

I typically use paddles on cars that actually have paddles and the h shifter with clutch with cars that don’t have paddles . But my dailies are manuals so that’s just what I prefer

At the moment I don't have the space nor the money to buy a steering wheel, so I play all my racing and simracing games with keyboard and mouse. If there's an option, I'll always use the clutch in my keyboard. It's tricky because it's or 0 or 1, so most of the times I can't launch my car properly :P. This video is very relevant for me because of this, and it's the first I've seen digging into this aspect, so great job and thank you!

That explanation was short of correct for stalling, you stall the engine because the engine doesn't have enough rotation to keep itself on when linked directly to the drivetrain, the clutch seperates the two so the load can be evenly spread to get the car from a stop to rolling speeds.

GTR2 also had pretty good clutch, the engine shuts off, you wreck the transmission if you shift without clutch in most cases, it definitely spins you if you downshift without throttle, (i learned that the hard way) and so on and so forth. I'll never forget the face of my ex when the engine burst into flames after she shifted from 4 to 1 at high speed cuz she shifted down too many times x,D

Turn Automatic Clutch off in the iRacing settings and it'll stall the car, also the car doesn't stall because it drowns in unburned fuel, the kinetic force of the engine isn't strong enough to get the cars weight moving and it stops the engine as a result.

@14:38. That’s exactly how it is with a real H-pattern shift transmission, I’ll never forget when the clutch slave cylinder went out in my truck🤣

In Project Cars 2 you can change gears while driving without using the clutch, even when autoclutch is turned off.

That iracing did it realistically cause you can try to upsift ir downsift real car without clutch but it just won't get in gear immediately

In Wreckfest you can see the game automatically puts the car in Neutral when stopped in gear, but only for a second

On the 4th test, it takes the car to go into gear long as the RPMs have to match the wheelspeed. Same thing as revmatching on downshift. If you did it on downshift you would grind it in and rev up... Obvs not IRL lol but you can shift without the clutch too, (The following would be done WITHOUT the clutch for clutchless shifting, all you have to do is put the gear in exactly at the next gear's RPM. Hope you understand.) you just have to *revmatch* on *upshift* by letting the clutch out just before the RPMs hit the matching wheelspeed. E.g if in 5th at 40MPH you have 2000 RPM and in 4th the same speed you have 3000RPM, You would be blipping up to 3k from 2k On DOWNSHIFT. But on UPSHIFT it's the other way around, 3k currently, clutch in, 5th gear, by that time RPMs should have dropped to 2.1k and at like 2050 start to release. Try it, it's much smoother and satifying!