50 years later it is still an incredible piece of engineering and the soundtrack it produces is fantastic…

Those twin turbo flat 12's sound freaking awesome. Nothing like going 200+mph with just a helmet between you and the hard hard ground. Geez those drivers were either really crazy or really brave, probably a bit of both.

@richardgrant418

5 ай бұрын

A helmet … and a roll cage, and massive tyres to keep you on the ground

Just shows you the insanity that Hans Mezger could come up with when he went completely WILD!

@SahnigReingeloetet

6 ай бұрын

A fitting name for a man of his caliber (Mezger aka „Metzger“ in German means butcher)

Thanks for this awesome video! I have a somewhat special connection to these engines and vehicles as my grandpa used to work as a race mechanic for porsche at that time, he even helped build a few of those 25 917s! Luckily he ist still with us and loves to talk about that time. One of the anecdotes he once told me was that apparently the pistons could melt if you've driven the 1600hp qualifying spec of the turboed flat 12 for too long. I really love him

@VisioRacer

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the story! I wish your grandpa good health!

@mxrz

6 ай бұрын

Did he also tell you the 1600hp number is nonsense? Porsche did not have a dyno that could read past 1200hp, so anything higher than that were just theoretical peak numbers that wouldn't be sustainable for any amount of time, given the turbos were blowing hot air directly into the block... intercoolers were tried for the first time only when the car was finished at Can-Am, and was being setup for the closed course record run, and even with intercoolers, they went back to the older 5.0L engine, because everyone knew the 5.4 would not last at anything past 1100hp, which was the actual tune used for quali, nowhere near 1600.

@rjung_ch

6 ай бұрын

Hang out with your grandpa, sounds like a wonderful guy. Such stories are fascinating. 🙏💪

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

@@mxrzThis accords with the information I have. Ian Bamsey - not known for exercising restraint on such matters - reports that Penske tested a 5.4 litre engine to 1,500 hp but it was destroyed in the process. I suspect even Bamsey was exaggerating to keep his audience entertained but it rather makes nonsense if the 1,600 hp claim, which is already an exaggeration of the 1,580 hp claim we see everywhere. The only source I have seen for that claim is video game. Furthermore, even using mathematics, the figures don’t model component failure. They just assume that a torque reading of X, with an RPM of Y and a fuel flow of Z will give a theoretical result. Finally, the car had a boost controller but it was not calibrated so nobody really had any idea what the boost pressure was when it was running at maximum. I’ve been watching this bidding war for decades, accompanied by the inevitable unverifiable claims of top speeds. Even the claims that it’s was the car that killed CanAm ignores the fact that the series had been dominated by McLaren for five years before that. What actually ‘killed’ CanAm was the 1973 oil price crisis. And of course, this being the internet, I have to defend against the idea that I’m trash talking one of the most iconic racing cars ever built. Of course I’m not. Its record speaks for itself. But even the way this video mentions the Talladega speed record _doesn’t differentiate between that car and the normal race car and doesn’t mention that Talledega was not part of the CanAm series._

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

@@mxrzAnd let’s not forget that the 912 block was its weakest component. Because it lacked a water jacket, its structural rigidity was never very high and block flex was a significant failure risk. The 917 engine was simply two flat six blocks bolted together, with the power take off and fan drive in the middle. The cylinders were bolted individually to the block and the head bolted on to that. It was descended directly from the 908 and used many 908 components. That placed limits on what could be done. But that doesn’t place any restraint on the internet, no sir-ee! Put this stuff out there and you get told to ‘do more research’ by people who can’t grade information. They just believe whatever confirms their prejudices and more.

Porsche flat 12 (180° V12) was something special. And air-cooled to top it off. 👍💪✌️

@Whance_Chilkins

6 ай бұрын

180° V12 is Ferrari

@Damien.D

6 ай бұрын

@@Whance_ChilkinsThese Porsches also are 180° V12 and V16 With the Ferrari engine of the 512BB and the Testarossa, these are the only 180° V engine ever produced.

@ThePaperRobotChannel

5 ай бұрын

​@@Damien.Dwhat about Sauber Merc Group C car?

@Damien.D

5 ай бұрын

​@@ThePaperRobotChannel well, never heard of this one. And you're right, it makes a 4th 180° V12! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M291_engine

@PixelPusher1

5 ай бұрын

​@@ThePaperRobotChannelThe engine in the Sauber Mercedes Group C was developed by Porsche

something in the pure rawness of 917’s rear end makes it one of the best automotive things to behold

Hans Mezger is legendary! His soul is still imbedded in his creations❤

Thanks for sharing this. I especially enjoy seeing any vintage factory pictures, and and the close ups of the engine internals.

@VisioRacer

6 ай бұрын

Me too, thank you!

I read that when these twin turbocharged Porches were raced at Le Mans it was amazing to see the turbos glowing red in the dark of night when going down the Mulsein strait.

@Twobarpsi

6 ай бұрын

Mulsanne

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

Twin turbo Porsches were not raced at Le Mans until the 935, which was a flat 6. The 917-10 and 917-30 12 cylinder cars did not race there.

@nigelalderman9178

5 ай бұрын

Yes even my lowly Sprinter turbo would glow red hot after several hours flat out, you could even see the turbine rotating inside

Another great video dude brilliant as always. I'd love to see you do a video on the old Doble steam cars of the 20s and 30s they was revolutionary for the time. In 1925 there was a Doble steam car that could do 0-75 mph in 5 seconds with 1000ft-lb of torque.

@davonmulder8458

5 ай бұрын

That's insane!

the 917-30 has a knob in the cockpit that controlled the boost.... the driver could "dial it up" for max HP, then after pulling away and making a significant lead, the driver would then "dial it down" and finish the race at much more engine friendly boost levels. a great read is "The Unfair Advantage" written by Mark Donohue- the racer/engineer who worked with Porsche to develop the 917-30.

@trance9158

Күн бұрын

Mark is/was the greatest!!

Pushed to the limit in racing, it gets 2.75 mpg. That's damn good, considering a gen 2 Toyota prius gets 17 mpg when driven the same.

Top speed of 240mph and fuel consumption rate of 2.5mpg.... sounds like the perfect commuter car for some.

@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391

5 ай бұрын

I think on one occasion, a full team of mechanics tried for ages to start a car at a track but after many attempts it just went bang, so they went home.

One of the BEST engines ever produced! Metzger got everything right, simple, analog (cog-driven everything!) but powerful! U cant go wrong with that!

Visio Racer.. You kick ass !! KEEP MAKING QUALITY VIDS!! I LOVE THEM ALL!! I have been with you for years!!

@VisioRacer

5 ай бұрын

I appreciate it man!

Wow, air-cooled engines sure are light and efficient when compared to liquid-cooled engines!

I didn't know the 16 had shared journals like the 12. That would mean it had simultaneous ignitions, and also that the front and rear halves would be separated by 90 crank degrees. Exactly the configuration that Coventry Climax tried in 1966. They gave up because the stop start motion of the pistons kept desynchronising the front and rear halves of the engine. I imagine the Porsche 16 kept lunching its cam drives instead, along with the quill shaft used as the output. You can see a nasty torque dip that Coventry Climax also experienced, in their case a clear sign of resonance and lost energy to torsional vibration.

-IMHO, the very best sounding engine hands down is a V16 or W16. They sound like a very pissed off crossplane V8 with the best exhaust imaginable! GREAT video as always!

Early upload? nice, love these cars & engines.

Phenomenal engines. Interesting well produced documentary.

Love the videos of racing engines, especially F1 and Le mans, Id love to see video about some of the F1 engines of 90s to 00s!

@nopadelik9286

5 ай бұрын

back in the day i got invited to watch an open training of the F1 at the Nürburgring, those engines screamed that loud at high revs at such high pitch that my ears failed and just produced some steady crackle noises when they drove by .. 😳

This is why I want to be a Mechanical Engineer.. I want to own a company that does this every day and sells these sort of engines to anyone who wants one..

@cleverusernamecl5532

6 ай бұрын

Born 30 years late unfortunately...

@boikanyoonneng9170

5 ай бұрын

@@cleverusernamecl5532 Its never too late.. NRE still does this today and they sell.. OEMs buy them and some private race teams..

@Emerich2

Ай бұрын

Unfortunatly as someone already said you are born too late. No one needs engines like this anymore. But if you really want to you can try to start working at cosworth. Thease are the only ones left creating crazy high power V10, V12 or even V16 engines. The future of the combustion engines doesnt look very good unfortunatly.

Porsche has always been my favourite sportscar. These are fantastic racecars. Once again a good video👍🙂

One of the greatest engines/cars ever

I've seen and heard a 917 in person!

The 917 Can Am car was not the first turbocharged car in the series. There was one team running a turbocharged GM big block around 1969 or 1970. But in the days of the Bruce and Denny show it was a futile effort.

@vintageman91

5 ай бұрын

Toyota 7, one version was built with turbochargers in 1969/70 but it never raced outside Japan.

ohh the sound of a 917 30 at full throttle memories of the 70s

So pretty in Gulf livery.

Very interesting ❣️👌🏼 Love from Berlin 🇩🇪 Ramsi 🙋🏻‍♂️

the 917/30 is insane to drive in assetto corsa

@VisioRacer

6 ай бұрын

It is ☝🏻

Thank you. Good story.

Thanks again :-)

Wonderful video.

Using a Bosch P pump for the fuel injection is interesting.

That sound at 2:30

i love the 917 so much

It's hard for me to imagine such large numbers being honest

They showed Road Atlanta when it took balls to drive there.

I heard that Klaus Ludwig when asked how much boost did he run , told them ," I TURN ZEE BOOST ALL ZEE WAY UP "!!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂

Pease of art

Very cool, I never knew about this specific Porsche engine.

@trance9158

Күн бұрын

Then you don't know much about Porsche either

@bobhill3941

Күн бұрын

@@trance9158 No one can know everything about a specific company -or anything-we're always learning and improving ourselves. That's what I love anyway.

@trance9158

Күн бұрын

@@bobhill3941 I've been a Porsche freak since I was a little kid ... I've read and followed their history for decades. But the 917 is also one of the most legendary race cars of all time. This was near the start of Porsche dominance in endurance racing... And they continue to this day!

@bobhill3941

Күн бұрын

@@trance9158 That's really cool, and you're absolutely right regarding the 917. In my high school library, there were three big coffee table books on the history of Porsche, Corvette, and Ferrari and I read all three cover to cover.

That fuel mileage isnt thst bad the 3l v10 in the f1 cars i heard went 1km per liter lol

Più che un motore, somiglia a un Missile!!! La bellezza di 16 cilindri!!! Insuperabile a dir poco. COMINCIO A CAPIRE PERCHÉ IL FHURER SCELSE FERDINAND PORSCHE, COME SUO MECCANICO DI FIDUCIA! TANTISSIMI ANNI FA . 9:47

Imagine if it was liquid cooled and had 4 valves per cylinder would be epic.

I loved Can Am.

Ferrari had nothing to do with these new regulations of course….

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

Quite right: they didn’t. By 1972, Ferrari had lost interest in sportscar racing and didn’t even have an entry for Le Mans that year. Garagista propaganda doesn’t convert well.

@mattg432

3 ай бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Ferrari skipped 1968 and stopped after 1973. They did not enter LM in some years because their engines did not last 24h, had trouble with 6h or 1000km already.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@mattg432 That’s a pretty sweeping statement. Ferrari, who won Le Mans something like six time (from my unreliable memory) suddenly can’t finish a race… Take a look at 1970. Why did Ferrari not finish? For a start, three of them were taken out in crashes. So maybe the story isn’t quite that simple.

@mattg432

3 ай бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Sure, having won in the past carries any car to the finish. Fanboy talk. They had won 1960 to 1965 without much opposition. Then came Ford and broke Enzos neck, twice in 1966 and 1967. Rule change for 1968 and Ferrari had no car while Porsche, Alfa, Ford developed 3 litre prototypes. No factory Ferrari just old 3.3litre customers LM in Le Mans in 1968 when a 2.2 litre Porsche 907 finished 2nd. In 1969, two 312P, no finish. 1970&1971 a bunch of 512 beaten by 917. In 1972 312PB no show as the car was not up to the task yet. In 1973 it finished 2nd behind Matra, not bad, but that was it for Ferrari. They had skipped F1 races in 1973, and abandoned sportscars to focus on F1 after 1973.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@mattg432 *_"Sure, having won in the past carries any car to the finish. Fanboy talk."_* Wow. *_"They had won 1960 to 1965 without much opposition."_* If you say so. Still gotta go 24 hours without breaking. *_"Then came Ford and broke Enzos neck, twice in 1966 and 1967"_* Emotional language. Tough guy fanboi talk... but it's okay when you do it. *_"1970&1971 a bunch of 512 beaten by 917."_* No factory support. Not the way Porsche did it. Three crashes in the wet in 1970, which had nowt to do with Ferrari _per se._ *_"In 1972 312PB no show as the car was not up to the task yet."_* That's funny because it was up to the task in 1972. *_"They had skipped F1 races in 1973, and abandoned sportscars to focus on F1 after 1973."_* True. Not a fanboi. Couldn't care less for tribalist bullshit. Just telling it like it was. If you want to go full tribal, that's your problem but one of us is old enough to remember a lot of this and the other one saw _'Ford versus Ferrari'._

Bro! Do 16 or 12 cylinders? May be 12...

Porsche are more real racers than Ferrari I think

Its cute 😍

85 ltr for 100 km my ferrari testarossa koenig competition, also with twin turbo uses if I could go longer time really fast the same amount of fuel. theoretically I once counted 94 ltr/100 km, speed 358 km/h ( GPS )

✌️🤠💥🌟🌀👍

I guess it's a type but the 917/30 wasn't a V12 it was a flat 12

@Damien.D

6 ай бұрын

All of these engine are 180° V engines, not boxers. Very strange idea, coming from Porsche, with their lifelong love of boxer engines.

@flammenjc

6 ай бұрын

A Flat engine is a piston engine where the cylinders are located on either side of a central crankshaft. It's a flat 12. It also sounds nothing like a V12 either

@Damien.D

6 ай бұрын

@@flammenjc Nope. Flat engines are boxers, with one crankpin per piston. When two pistons shares one crankpin, it's a V. Of course it sounds strange, because it's unbalanced by design.

@lowiderwheels

6 ай бұрын

It’s V12 180°

@ThePaperRobotChannel

5 ай бұрын

​@@Damien.Dboxer is always flat, but flat is not always a boxer, but can also be 180° V when opposing cylinders share a crankpin, like in 917, Sauber group C car, Ferrari 512bb and Testarossa.

My wife’s boyfriend told me that teslas are better though

@rjung_ch

6 ай бұрын

Glad she has a boyfriend and a husband. 😂

@jakobquick6875

6 ай бұрын

Teslas r better till there not😂 dollar cost, human and environmental costs higher than combustion, battery volatility and toxic waste eventually, recyclability and use of plastics (derived from oil), and blatant hyperbole (propaganda) claims that they will silver bullet the earths problems, but they are accelerating everything with higher costs. Look up cobalt! Copper? Gold? Look up nickel! Who owns those basic necessities for batteries? And r these elements / minerals cheap? Like aluminum and iron? 😂. It’s laughable how 1984 in reality speech or nonsense everyone’s smoking these days! God bless the flat 16 turbo monster and despair😅

@doriangray2347

6 ай бұрын

@@rjung_ch yesssss! Haha

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

A Tesla will blow the doors off pretty much any American muscle car.

@rjung_ch

5 ай бұрын

@@thethirdman225 but only for 10 years, then they break and you can throw them away.

3:35 and probably also generated lot of drag due to a turbulence

So, it's an odd fire 12 cylinder?

@Damien.D

6 ай бұрын

Yeah these things are not well balanced, just like the Ferrari engine of the Testarossa.

@identiticrisis

5 ай бұрын

​@@Damien.Dno they're almost perfectly balanced and have even firing intervals of 60 crank degrees, just like your normal 60 degree V12. A 65 degree V12 is odd firing, as found in many Ferraris.

The 917 looks amazing standing still, but a little awkward on the track [by modern standards], with its high stance, body roll, and lack of downforce (actually upforce).

917 is god

La 917/30 era così potente che le ruote slittavano dentro le gomme. 😂 1540 cv in assetto da qualifica.

Ear sex- when that sucker is cranking out those RPMs!

Do it got Vtec?

Why didn't they use this engine in Buggatti?

@trance9158

Күн бұрын

When??

@DailyLifeSolution

22 сағат бұрын

@@trance9158 When they(VW) owned Buggatti.

@trance9158

22 сағат бұрын

@@DailyLifeSolution they didn't own them back then

@DailyLifeSolution

22 сағат бұрын

@@trance9158 Not then but since 20yrs

@trance9158

22 сағат бұрын

@@DailyLifeSolution also Bugatti is still owned by Porsche and Rimac. Porsche has 40% or 45% ownership in Rimac. VW is actually owned by Porsche due to the family having a majority share on the board of directors.

Fin fact porche cpuldnt get the engine to work. It was mitsubishi designed balancing shaft that made the car possible

@VisioRacer

6 ай бұрын

This 12-cylinder? Not sure about that. As far as I know, they tried their own balancing system on the Porsche 944 engines, but eventually ended up buying the Mitsubishi technology

@camrunner6633

5 ай бұрын

@@VisioRacer so to summarise, they couldnt get it to work and used a mitsubishi designed balancing shaft

@VisioRacer

5 ай бұрын

@@camrunner6633 But that is a completely different engine for a very different car

@thethirdman225

5 ай бұрын

@@camrunner6633Balancer shafts are only needed for four and eight cylinder engines running a flat plane crank. They minimise second order vibration and are probably not needed in a full race engine anyway. They are also no a ver complicated device and could be designed by almost any competent automotive engineer .

imagine the powah if they had intercoolers... and water/meth

I’m sorry ,that voice makes this video which is probably very good ,unwatchable.