Hey Phil! We have hundreds of these at work! Stupid name but very capable thin client. The card reader is an option and that interface is for an optional bigger stand that houses more ports (serial etc). IGEL make a lot of different thin clients and have their own thin client management software for remotely flashing firmware etc. - also they make their own operating system (igelOS) that can be used to turn old PCs into thin clients.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the information :)

Don't know why, but I find the thin client videos so interesting.

your voice triggers my isa, pci, agp mood

PhilsComputorLab The 44 pin connector on the bottom is for an optional “connectivity module” that gives you WiFi &/or serial ports.

@nicholsliwilson

3 жыл бұрын

BTW the WiFi adapter in the Connectivity Module is just an off the shelf commercial USB WiFi dongle on an internal USB port cable. 😄 Although that does mean it’s upgradable.

There's actually a newer revision of Sopwith from 1997 labeled the Network Edition that is not CPU speed sensitive.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Nice :)

@intel386DX

3 жыл бұрын

There is Sopworth 2 from 1986 I think that is not speed sensitive and the ground is not filled witj white color, but only the stroce is white so it is easier on the eyes

Nice one, have a few thin clients that I bought back in january and I need to get working with them, so excellent inspiration! :)

I never saw that game at the end there, so it was satisfying to be able to watch it.

Love to see you playing with the thin client PCs

I bought an Igel because I love computers and hedgehogs 😄

It’s been years since I last saw the ms-dos Cat game. :)

Awareness of cool computer goes up. Availability of product on Ebay goes down. Been here for a while and I like your channel!

I'm pretty much set as far as PCs for Retro games but it's always cool to see what you can do with these thin clients! It almost makes me want one even though I definitely don't need one!

A tip for people interested in buying one: if you live in germany (or switzerland as i do) you can find this and other IGEL models for dirt cheap or free, as often they are owned by big companies that usually throw them out when they upgrade or change to something else

You could try using Macrium Reflect to image an XP installation and copy to the drive and try running up the thin client that way. This has worked for me many times on thin clients where I could not get XP installed.

Finally another thin client video! Yay!

Thanks for all your work Phil..Just built a retro pc with the help of your videos, brings back a lot of good times

Your voice is so relaxing for some reason.

I remember sopwith fondly. Needed the turbo button on our Packard Bell to play it. It was on a disk called "Top Ten Solid Gold".

Thanks for the vid

Oooh. VIA CPU!

The interface on the bottom is for another type of foot. We have several with parallel + internal USB equipped with a crappy (weak signal) WiFi module. There's another model with serial ports.

Looking forward to you tinkering with Retroarch and Dos Box pure, some very interesting emulation possibilities seem to be available.

@WellBeSerious12

3 жыл бұрын

Year Zero! When even Pentium 4 is better, it shows how useless a computer is.

@axelstrack85

Жыл бұрын

@@WellBeSerious12 Did you ever consider the use case for these machines? Imagine to put 100 P4s in an office instead of those? Welcome in the world of efficiency ....

ooh i own alot of older igel branded computers, igel and fujitsu siemens are usually made with high quality parts with good caps built to last.

Interesting! The best program I ever used in my whole career was Framework from Aston Tate - a DOS-program that did not use more resources than in one of these clients. These machines can be had for nothing today, Young persons need ideas for uses of such machines, we oldies have memories. Thanks for the inspiration!

Thank You

I prefer to use winsetupfromusb over easy2boot on these older machines. It just works better and doesn't need to load the iso to ram, which is helpful on low ram systems. it even comes with AHCI drivers for winxp without needing to modify the iso. Really good for installing xp and 2000 from usb.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Easy2Boot does all of that as well, you can choose not to load into RAM and it has AHCI drivers. But I will take a look as you mentioned it and I'm keen to know about alternatives.

Thanks for a full intro inclusive disassembly! Maybe I missed it, or did you not mention the two 4-pin white connectors close to the reset jumper? I bought this machine, explicitly, since most others don't have USB 3.0. Want to run it as network appliance, with external network cards. Love the fanless operation, and find the build quality to be better than expected.

I have an Igel H700C with a via C7 1.5ghz. officially supported OS: win2k and XP. Unofficially, I've managed to put Win98 on it, with a PCI soundcard in the expansion slot (it has HD audio integrated, which means usually no Win98 sound). Unfortunately, the integrated GPU driver is iffy, couldn't manage to get anything else but D3D working. So I decided to use a PCI Radeon 9250 and a USB 3D sound stick for Win98SE. Not ideal, but hey...

@mirific87

3 жыл бұрын

Btw I rate Fujitsu Siemens thin clients better...

You can buy a Stand with integrated Serial ports. Thats the extension connector made for. We have hundreds of igel thinclients in my company, they are the de-facto standard in germany in terms of thinclients.

Excellent video as always! Loved that you also tested Linux, but it's way too heavy these days to be used with old hardware. At least Sopwith is playable!

@swiftfox3461

3 жыл бұрын

Puppy Linux should still work on older devices, but I agree. Linux is very heavy these days. It used to work fine on 2008 Core 2Duo with 2 GB RAM, now it struggles to do anything with these resources.

I'm curious if that mPCIe slot can be used for attaching a GPU to this thing. Might be utterly pointless but fun to see in a video. Nice work as always!

wow I worked at a medical laboratory full of this machines....yes it was in Germany, company was called "Synlab" (it was really a terrible employer, probably still is).

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Cool!

The specs are comparable to the HP t510 Flexible Thin Client.

I bought the Igel UD5 LX recently. Has a Celeron J1800 and a 1x PCIE slot. I cut the end of the slot and put a 16x GPU in it. Not perfect as the card moves about but works OK. Got it running w7 at the moment mostly for dosbox. Also bought a 10ZIG 67xx too. It has a VIA U3100 but it also has a PCI slot. I've put a sound card in and it works perfectly under Dos. Both were off ebay UK.

@stevec00ps

3 жыл бұрын

I have one of those UD5s with a dual PCIe network card running Sophos XG firewall - runs nicely!

That's excellent dood!

"I shall see you soon with......", please don't leave us hanging.

Very nice machine, I had an HP T510 with the same specs and as you said, they are cheaper.

thanks for the seizure warning

I know you're more into hardware Phil, but have you checked out the PCem/86Box emulator? I'm really enjoying trying out different cpu configs with vintage software suites and games with classic hardware config combos. I'd love to see a comparison video between an actual hardware config and the emulated version one day. It's very low level emulation so I'm finding it pleasantly accurate.

I find these kinds of units much more interesting. I am willing to pay only so much for a mini-PC of any kind so if it's something like $500 I don't really care how capable (more likely, overpriced) it is.

I use that program on my pentium 4, I am able to play hard hat mac on it at the perfect speed. It sort of puts the system in a sleep state so its a lot better then those slow down programs that cause a lot of issues for me.

You living in Australia but your accent sounds so German to me :)

3 жыл бұрын

I think he is a German expat. He mentioned it before.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Austrian living in Australia :)

@wekt6666

3 жыл бұрын

He ist from Austria

@HouseCzechowski

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab I am Polish living in UK 🇬🇧 Your you've got fantastic chanel. Thanks to your videos I decided to build intel pentium III computer for a games that I used to play 20 years ago on my 1 slot computer. :) Fantastic hobby for lockdown you giving me all the times ideas to upgrade computer:).

@BenState

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab wow I thought you sounded chinese. sehr gut

I LOVE these thin client video's! It got my started in the retro hobby when i tried the T5710. KZread, why was this not in my feed?! (Probably looked over it). As for the machine itself this doesn't really seem a good one since it lacks the features you'd want to have like MS-Dos sound, the ATI Radeon or proper Windows 98 support. To me the T5710 is still the undefeated king of the thin clients, only downside is that it can't run anything newer than XP. And nice to see you finally use CPUSPD, its the only hardware slowdown utility still on my floppy especially since that version 2 was aimed to actually replace setmul rather than focussing on things setmul could not do. On a machine like this it doesn't do much more than throttle could do, but why use throttle if you can use a tool like this which is way more universal? :D And i can absolutely confirm, the cpuspd utility with the throttling setting you used uses the chipset. So any VIA motherboard or thin client will get you the full 16 speeds just like in throttle. This is not a selling point for this thin client alone, any VIA based thin client will allow you to do this including the beloved T5710. Not sure if the enabling or disabling of the cache works with this IGEL i know that on the T5710 its technically possible to disable the cache but given the weird CPU implementation that makes no noticable difference.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I remember noticing that with the t5710 you can't disable the CPU, so CPU speed comes in handy. It doesn't have the scrolling bug and with the PCI slot as well as parallel port there are heaps of sound options.

@Henk717

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Very true, it has the scrolling bug on the on board graphics at least in keen but the pci slot is a great addition. Gonna have to try this sopwith dos game on my Athlon 64 X2 time machine though, i can likely slow it down enough with cpuspd by disabling the cache, highest acpi throttle and lowest multiplier.

Always wondered how these things looked inside, as I cant just disassemble these things at work.

i suppose you could upgrade the gpu via mini pcie to pcie x16 adapter, thought i doubt that would be worth it, if you cant install a faster cpu.

(7:28) Thanks for pointing that out, as I can now understand why you chose Ubuntu, whereas I consider myself to be more of a Linux intermediate and would usually install Debian instead.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Do you think it would have changed the outcome?

@kbhasi

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab No, but it would've thrown me off since I outgrew Ubuntu several years ago.

i have some of these but older model from this one. 400mhz (eden cpu) with 64mb of ram and 32mb CF card adapter. it has legacy sound blaster options but i had to use windows 98 to get the drivers to enable it.

Won't blame you for staying with Windows, Linux has a different UX and usually people do not expect to right click a file to go to properties to set a file as being executable, instead everyone reads the terminal way first. Otherwise, it is sad that this nice looking device is so weak under the hood. The DOSbox distro looks interesting however, I might check it out. Greetings from Germany.

@edsiefker1301

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It's not that you "have to" use the terminal, it's that the terminal is so useful there's not really a good reason to avoid using it. Windows feels so limited in comparison. The culture shock is real in both directions.

@MegaManNeo

3 жыл бұрын

@@edsiefker1301 And that"s where many veteran and youngster Linux users fail on a mental level, understanding that the terminal is not better or worse {although the latter is debatable}, just another way of interacting with the machine. I use the terminal for remote managing my NAS, servers and secondary computers if those too run Linux. Updating packages too can be easier on the term, depending on the distro's implementation of GUI package managers in various desktop environments. Otherwise, I am glad not to have it around and after 16 years of Linux use actually prefer to recommend people to stay with Windows, unless they have good reasons beyond your typical Linux user's paranoia.

@squirlmy

3 жыл бұрын

@@edsiefker1301 back in the day... Many DOS users understood the power of the command line, and used it even when working Win98 and later. Neal Stephen wrote an essay called "In the beginning... was the command line" which is great, but probably outdated. One of the advantages he writes of Linux over Windows was the ease of "wc" word count utility. At the time, no Windows word processors had that feature.

@squirlmy

3 жыл бұрын

@@MegaManNeo paranoia? How lame of you! For a long time a big library of free Linux software, working well on old hardware, was a good draw, as long as MS Office or even just Word could be made to work. And, while I appreciate the fact that the majority of tracking is non-identifying, these companies, particularly Microsoft and Google, make billions of dollars tracking without either properly asking permission, and with no chance of users getting compensation. That's not paranoia! Personally, I would like to ask Windows Subsystem Kali users about tracking. I bet they get spammed hard from online "ethical hacking" course offerings. I just can't see that arrangement as anything but a honeypot for script kiddies.

@MegaManNeo

3 жыл бұрын

@@squirlmy This may be true but unlike those tech giants, Linux devs and hardcore users know jackshit about a consistent and easily adoptable UX beyond offering either totally solid early 2000's or modern looking desktops. Why is it that I still have to deal with the CLI and config files to set up a PXE server when the same task can be done under Windows with simple GUI tools that may not be as versatile but do what the user expects? Why can't the guys behind open- and libreOffice get their mind together and reach the same level of compatibility with Microsoft Office that Softmaker has for years now? Why do I have to fix shit package conflicts inside the terminal with cryptic commands that differ from distribution to distribution and that so called helpful Linux users on message boards do not provide when asking but rather they say RTFM (even tho it's use Google and the first link will help you) and leave you alone 'til you made your homework that is already confusing enough because the system is not all that easy unless you are really into computers? These moronic cunts usually sit with their ass in front of their computer most time of the day and get a climax from tweaking files to their liking that no casual user ever cared about. And in the same turn, instead of improving the OS experience themselves, they act like friendly helpers. For the love of Linux, while I really enjoy the system it is the community around it and the inconsistency that let me say for certain that my friends (and one of them really gives Linux a try on a secondary machine) are better off to stay with Windows rather than adopting a whole new system. And before you ask what they do with their machines: Playing games that require 3rd party DRM, doing YT videos, using specific software which has no Linux counterpart of equal quality.

There's a lot of cheap thin clients here in Ph. Can you do a review for the Dell n03d 3030 thin client?

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

I don't have that model, but we will look at more Thin Clients this year :D

That IDE looking external Interface is for connecting legacy ports (RS232 or parallell). www.igel.de/solution-family/igel-hardware/accessories/

No sound in DOS but PC-speaker - no go for me. But nice review as always, Phil!

Philday!

Great video, could you do something based on Ali chipset? in this case, for Intel Pentium 2, 3 thank you keep on doing videos!

How come Quake is down from 275 to 17 FPS for only 4x of the resolution? Maybe you meant 27.5 in the former case?

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

It really does run at 275 FPS at 320x200, not sure why the huge performance drop with 640x480.

well since it runs dos, would it run on windows 9x or 3.1? and if it does how would windows 9x games run on it?

If this thing can run Karateka properly I'd be amazed. That game has given me many problems on the t5720 thin client and other machines despite using setmul.

Why did you not use XP 64 bit ? It's works well. I have been using it until 2013.

Nice lil video, i own a Dell Wyse Dx0d, with a dual core amd cpu and integrated hd 6250 graphics, this lil machine will blow you away, nice performance, its actually quite fast for what it is, i use windows 8.1 on it which seems to be the most responsive on my particular machine out of a couple of operating systems. Maby you could review one of the Dell Wyse machines, if you run only office tasks on it, you are good to go, but if you want to game on this thin client, you will need to come up with some active cooling solution, i have the thin client sitting upwards on a makeshift stand, clearing the middle section, i found a header on the inside which provide 5 volts, and i glued a tiny fan on the bottom which prevents it from overheating and throtling down

@bramvandenbroeck5060

2 жыл бұрын

I removed the tiny fan because of the noice, i found a bigger laptop fan which i could mount inside the case, it looks better, and its virtualy silent now, great lil thin client!

Nice little unit. But... eBay has some nice used Dell OptiPlexes with better specs and 8GB of RAM for $30 US. Also... I would have loved to have seen how you installed that SSD in that tiny case.

I tried to play syndicate wars in dosbox... loved that game but too glitchy....

oo oo nice. would this work as a security appliance I wonder?

@uwedippel

2 жыл бұрын

That's exactly my intention. Only one NC, but some USB 3.0, and a good adapter should be doing fine.

Phil, on a quest to finding the slowest cpu you can buy

Are you Deutche? Use O&O ShutUp for better W10 privacy options. Along with other privacy/performance options. For XP: install on SSD in another computer, shutdown during reboot, move SSD to client.

Ok. Im glad im not the only that experiencing issues with installing xp using e2b. Hopefully they fix that issue soon. Lol

In my experience, using the F6 method to load AHCI storage drivers from a USB floppy drive during a Windows XP install never works. Pretty sure that method requires a legacy internal floppy drive to function correctly. Best to use a program such as nLite to slipstream the storage driver on to the Windows XP install media (which of course requires burning a fresh install CD). Was there an option in the system BIOS for legacy IDE mode? That path might be even easier. Also, you might want to consider purchasing a USB audio adapter. This would have been a quick and easy workaround for Ubuntu. I use the UGREEN 30724 which costs about $14 USD on Amazon and works perfectly in Linux.

I'm waiting for the day Phil builds an 8088 (or v20) based XT machine, well maybe never but I did recently and it's more fun that You may think. There are some Gems of games out there for the XT. Most 16 bit ISA cards work except for IDE. sb16, video cards, and IO cards all work ok. You really need one of those xt based cf card readers, it's too hard otherwise. PC Speaker sounds a lot better than You may think running through the sb16. sb16 works normally as well in 8 bit slot. I'll keep dreaming of course though (about a future video). I think it's literally the only PC cpu never looked at here, can't remember if the 286 was covered.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

386 is the oldest gear I have!

Is it via c3 or via c7

Phil, is it possible to change IDE/AHCI SATA mode in BIOS? It may be a reason for XP to crash.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

No such options I'm afraid with this machine.

@86smoke

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab So that means it's hard set to ahci, which excludes xp unless proper sata drivers are provided

It's same configuration than HP T510, I bought it last week. I want make a mini Windows XP PC with s3tc games.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Please let us know how you go with this one!

I had access to bucket loads of these so really tried to get them working as DOS machines but could never get any audio working so gave up :(

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea all you're going to get is PC speaker... Which is ok for really old games, but not the newer stuff.

Was entranced by the gameplay at the end and didn't hear a word you said. Then I was upset when it cutout so close to the end of the level/game.

Have you tried to go to the Bios and make the controller to IDE rather then AHCI?

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea there is no such option...

Phil, do you use Discord? I'd like to discuss some retro stuff, but I don't know how to reach you other than with Facebook, which I don't use

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

No I don't.

VIA... WOW a commercial product with a VIA CPU... damn that was something different.

@DanafoxyVixen

3 жыл бұрын

lots of commercial products used VIA cpus.. they were used in so many thin clients and embedded systems

Hi Phils... your video "Modern storage for old laptops or thin clients" you said it is not possible to use an SSD SATA 2.5" with an IDE adapter. However, just remove the plastic case that the real SSD does not even have half the case size. Just for those who don't know.

It seems like a USB sound card is a must buy to get anything done. Won't help with how severely underpowered the CPU is though. What an odd box.

the best way to play games on linux is to install Lutris, and follow its guides. also on very old or slow computers, you're much likely to get much better performance out of something like Lubuntu, which is made for older computers. not a bad attempt at Linux gaming though

Curious on how you get Quake 3 Arena working on Windows 10. I tried a few times in the past when I was forced to switch to 10 but couldn't get it to run. I tried compatibility mode but that didn't work. I have the original discs. It's funny that I can get Quake 2 and 4 working but not 3. Also Return to Castles Wolfenstein works too.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

I use the GOG version!

@feeterican

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab got ya thanks man.

Hi Phil. I know this is a old clip, but you buy wrong Igel model for XP . You need M310 with VIA one core 1Ghz with VIA VX855 chipset. It have a compact Flash card, like you have in other clips and DDR2 RAM up to 2 GB.

Give Linux a go on a modern machine and use it as a normal OS for a while. Then you'll get the feel for it. The hard part is being a power user in Windows, where you know your way around and how to be an administrator, etc. When you start with Linux with that skill set, you feel stripped of knowledge and that can be frustrating at first. It's almost better to be a novice PC user, because then you don't feel that loss of power, and the learning curve is steep either way. There's a really good Linux YT channel call Learn Linux TV. I recommend it to anyone wanting to, well... Learn Linux. Lots of topics covered there, explained at a good pace and in a pleasant tone.

Could probably try that generic XP AHCI driver that's floating around

@philscomputerlab

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but good luck finding one. I gave up and tried all the VIA ones I had on hand.

Phil using a CRT?!

I strongly recommend you try Puppy Linux. It is a fully featured OS that can be installed under 1GB and works wonders on very limited hardware. It is my daily driver on a 2004 Dell Latitude D510. It is also very easy to set up and use.

I believe all those IDE SSDs are just mSATA SSDs in an adapter

Really nice Emulator station since usb front and dvi with analog in the back, how it can run ps1 emulator not sure hehe :D maby try Project64 and epsxe?

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea maybe it could run older emulators that are not as demanding on the CPU?

@StigDesign

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Yes maby SuperEmulator and Sega :D

you might have wanted to try slipstreaming the drivers into the windows xp installer cd via nLite.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

I have tried that.

@XeonProductions

3 жыл бұрын

​@@philscomputerlab Sorry, I must have missed that in the video. Only other idea I would have is try googling the Hardware ID's from device manager in Windows 10 and see if a driver pops up. Although given the horrible performance of this thin client at just about everything, it's probably not worth the effort.

Stock Ubuntu was perhaps a very poor choice for that chipset and CPU combination

I'm still playing Quake II on an old Windows XP machine! Looks awesome!

Yep. I keep trying to like Linux and fail each time. I know the feeling. 17 fps in Quake at a mere 640x480! What a curiously slow CPU!

But Terminal is wonderful!

I wonder what the guys at IGEL will think when you tell them that "at least Sopwith runs very well".

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Hehe I still want to get XP going, but I have a similar machine from HP and might just try that one instead.

@intel386DX

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab try to install XP from Windows 98 or from DOS by running winnt /B form i386 directory (the B switch is for floppiles install like in NT 3.x/4.0 and 2k)

even when dead "via" strikes again LUL

Sonic, der Igel

Opeenchrome lacks 3D acceleration.

Hi,this is strange thingy!!! Good,no an excellent work on this thingy!!!! But you missed one Is - Windows Mobile!!! At work I use machine with Via/Cyrex based CPU,and, it's running Windows Mobile!!!!

Try "r_picmip 10" with q3 mate :) (10 no textures - 0 best textures) Oh and for Linux, try Manjaro and forget Ubuntu. Dosbox and Retroarch are running great here.

Me with English spelling eye-Jel (eye Gel)

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Hehe :)

Ohhh I'm really early this time!

Huh, neat. I found a different Igel thin client a little while back, an H700C. Looks kinda like a bulkier version of yours. 1.5ghz C7 and a single PCI slot. No win98 sound drivers unfortunately but it likes XP and 2k just fine.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Nice, I want one :D It also has the VIA/S3 graphics with the scrolling issue in some games, but the PCI slot is a hit. Will look out for one :D

@EATABAGOFHELL

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Yup, it's a really fun little machine. 2 major problems to watch out for tho: The CPU heatsink is pretty huge and interferes with a lot of full-height video cards (95mm is about the upper limit on how tall the card can be and still fit), and also there's no real ventilation above the PCI card area so anything beefier than say, a GF2MX is difficult to adequately cool. You can tell when the designer put this PCI slot in they were thinking "modem", not "radeon".

Do not know why you are suprised at the sata speeds, its a thin client and they are even using ddr3. I am supprised it didn't have an onboard MMC chip for storage.