"Do you have some sort of business woman's special?"

@GenesisCamille

4 ай бұрын

😂😂😂 classic

As a black woman, my favorite thing to do is wear an “acceptable” hairstyle for an interview and the moment I’m hired, I start wearing my box braids and my loose natural hair because at that point they can’t tell me anything 🤣. Works like a charm. When I worked at a hospital, I braided tinsel into my box braids and wore fully beaded twists (those stayed in a bun and were rubber banded like 3 times over so they wouldn’t fall out). No one ever had the gall to say anything about it. I definitely agree that things need to change and the double-standards for curvy vs skinny girls and BIPOC girls vs white girls are absolutely terrible. But my solution for now is just swindling them because they can’t tell me anything without me calling them out for it. Solution for now is to learn to play the corporations game better than they can. 👡👓

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I love this!!

@louisachalarca6494

4 ай бұрын

Inspired!

@CalebTheOwlBoy

4 ай бұрын

Love that.❤😂

@theartoflolita935

4 ай бұрын

I love this so much!

@Flowergoatflower

4 ай бұрын

I do the exact same thing. Wanted to wear my natural hair out for an interview and my mom told me not to do that. She specifically stated “you don’t know these people, and what they’ll think of you.” Sadly, it’s true

I had a coworker that dressed in 50's style outfits everyday. Managers often used her as an example of how the women in supervisor positions should dress (mainly the fact that she took the time everyday to make herself look well put together). Her outfits were always fun bright colors. Customers loved it too. Well one day she wore a solid black dress, same sillhouette as her other dresses. The only things that were different about this dress were that it was black and the skirt had an extra layer of sheer black fabric over the top of it. She is a curvy lady and this dress really flattered her. The female office managers complained, said that it was too racey for work. All the office managers pulled her into the office and dress coded her. They actually had her kneel on the ground to measure how much above her knees the dress was like she was in high school. Her dress did not violate any of the job's dress codes and was appropriate for her job but they decided to give her a warning anyways. The next day she came in wearing baggy jeans, a baggy shirt, and a long baggy flannel. She didn't do her hair and she wore very little makeup. Still not violating any dress codes and still fine for her job. She got called into the office again. The office managers were disappointed that she had stopped making herself look "presentable" but she retorted that they had had a problem with her looking the way she had so she decided to be completely opposite of how she had been, but still within dress code, to avoid looking too "racey". They wrote her up, she knew the company policies and was able to have the write up dismissed after a long talk with corporate. Even though she won, she still never went back to the cute outfits.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

How humiliating for her! I feel so much for her, she must have felt like a part of herself died because so many people - staff and customers knew her for and complimented her on her style to then be humiliated by having a skirt length test done on you like that and being called racy. Ugh. I get why she did what she did but you just know everyday back at that job would have been more of a vengeance f you thing as opposed to feeling supported and appreciated as she was previously. And again, it's women policing women - I hate it

@dismurrart6648

4 ай бұрын

Oh I'm absolutely livid for her. I'd probably do the exact same thing and consider lodging a sexual harassment complaint since they made her kneel. That is degrading and vile.

@theasexualvampire13

4 ай бұрын

F that. I would've quit. There's so way I'd let somebody treat me that way.

@hydratejsn

3 ай бұрын

I have a kinda similar story - my friend loved to dress feminine and modestly for the look of it, until a very misogynistic teacher used her as an example of how a "respectful young woman" should dress like, when shaming our classmates for wearing shorts. She's a lesbian and it kinda shook her that someone could connect her style to ideas, that propagate control of women. So, now she always sprinkles something odd in her outfits, like fishnets, heavy jewellery, black leather etc. Maybe your coworker also got fed up with being the good girl example, when she wore the black dress?

@HotaruMimiuchi

3 ай бұрын

@@hydratejsn I hate when someone's appearence is used by others to propagate some twisted set of ideals with no consideration for what that people's real ideals are. If a you wore yellow everyday there would be people saying "it makes me so happy to see you wear such a cheery color everyday." without wanting to learn the why, the why being that you wear it everyday to mourn the loss of your sister who was wearing yellow when she got killed by a drunk driver. To you, yellow is not a happy color.

As a queer womam, the argument ladies only wear makeup to please men cracks me up... And then makes me cry.

@himalayansalt32

4 ай бұрын

as a queer woman from a non-Western country, the VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN ON THIS PLANET ARE PRESSURED TO WEAR MAKEUP

@TheBreaker996

4 ай бұрын

Oh, I remember back in uni (Technical, Computer Science, so there were many guys), I heard one of the boys talking about me. "XXX is kinda sexy, don't get me wrong! Wish she would wear less witchy makeup tho, lol" What did I do? Learned how to do smokies that are as witchy as they can get. Use it as my shield.

@FabulousSquidward

4 ай бұрын

My makeup is always buckwild at work to specifically send the message that "this is not for men".

@dragonbeardable

3 ай бұрын

Where do the beauty standards implemented on straight women come from? The male gaze right?

@IronBroccoli

3 ай бұрын

But it is effectively the reality or more right than wrong. Since aesthetics exists within a broader hetero framework. The problem comes when you think it’s unique to women. Humans dress based on perceptions of hierarchies of attractiveness or aesthetics, with the under lying goal of most of the population being approval of the opposite sex. If they didn’t were clothes their bodies would still conform to there being hierarchies of aesthetics and attractiveness. If You aren’t attracted to the opposite or any sex your aesthetics are still intended to meet some minimum standard which is influenced by humans trying to be attractive to someone most of which is the opposite sex.

Also, the notion that tattoos and piercings are unprofessional is something that should be left in the past because how is a tattoo of a cat on my arm affecting my job

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

YES! honestly it's weird if that's still a thing, nearly every corporate place I've worked, people with tattoos are pretty common, and they're not just in "lower positions" either

@lindseyluvinglife9259

4 ай бұрын

That and colored hair. I’m to the point where I try to avoid working places where they police tattoos and hair color.

@seeleunit2000

4 ай бұрын

It isn't. There's so much about Office culture that needs to be burnt and rebuilt into something less dehumanizing.

@grazielaalmeida8438

4 ай бұрын

Yey! One more video upload.

@HaleyMary

4 ай бұрын

Yes and colored hair. I'm afraid to ever dye my hair pink or red or blue because what if my boss and supervisors didn't like it? I couldn't seem professional in a store unless I have my natural light brown hair. I also have to wear black pants and a blue company shirt because that's what we're supposed to wear. I actually wish I could wear a knee length skirt and tights for once.

Honestly the fact it’s called a “siren” trend is what raises the eyebrow for me. Want to dress corpo chic? Absolutely go for it. But the calling it “office siren” does sound…sketchy I guess is the best word of what exactly is the intention is.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I'm unsure exactly what you mean by this, as I described the office siren look, showed inspiration images which people have used and explained about gen z entering the workforce and wanting to feel empowered in their clothing - which is sleek business attire. What "intention" are you putting onto these people? Because as talked about in the video, people purposefully misinterpret people's "intentions" from their clothing all the time - and there is no winning as women as I talked about in the stats. Regardless of if someone dresses more baggy or more fitted, objectification and harassment happens.

@ladygrey4113

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire it’s just folks calling it “office siren” raising the flag for me. The name doesn’t really evoke corporate power fantasy to me.

@no.6377

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, "siren" is a term usually associated either with the mythical creature that lures men to their death with their beauty, or the new meaning where it's basically just a sexy seductress look. It just feels like a needlessly sexualized way of describing clothes. Makes me think of the "siren vs doe" eyes(predator vs prey...all just a new way to express the madonna vs wh*re complex that still has society in a chokehold) trend that was making rounds on tiktok.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

@ladygrey4113 everyone's got different lived experiences, I get that, but it's not wrong if someone feels comfortable by looking "attractive" you know what I mean? Doesn't mean the intention is so get sexually harassed at work

@ladygrey4113

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire oh absolutely, it’s never someone’s fault when someone is a creep to them at work.

The younger crowd at my office dealt with dumb outfit policing by complimenting each other's fashion choices. If we noticed someone was wearing a cute outfit or had added fun colours to their hair, we'd joyfully tell them how good it looked. It was a lot harder for the old grumps to complain when there were louder, positive voices to combat them.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I love this! I would love for this to be effective, even though I got compliments all the time, I still got pulled aside, but couldn't tell anyone about it as I was in such a junior position. But truly, I really hope this actually does work where you work

@Lhene9

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire It worked, but my office already had a relaxed dress code. So consequences for standing out were "just" gossip and huffiness from the grumps. It wouldn't work as well in an office with a stronger dress code or more entrenched sexism.

As one of the women who has been sexually harassed at work by customers, I can tell you 100? that it does not matter what you wear. I was heavier then than I am now and had big curves. I was still being harassed, and corporate picked out my uniform. Yes, a uniform. One that everyone has to wear, but was somehow viewed as me being inappropriate at work. I ended up getting an extra large man's shirt to cover everything.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I'm so sorry, it's total bs how our bodies are seen to be the problem, as opposed to people's inappropriate behaviour. It creates such a sense of shame and I'm really sorry you had to deal with that - the fact you had to basically wear a tent to try and "be appropriate" is infuriating

@Cottenkitty123

4 ай бұрын

Similar situation. Second office job I was written up for wearing my black trousers, black blazer with a high neck pink jumper. Am I curvy? Yep.

@faithproctor4175

4 ай бұрын

I had HR tell me that the pants I was wearing (dress pants) weren’t appropriate and when I pointed out that my coworker that did the same job as me had the same exact pants on regularly, so why was it a problem? It’s because of the way they fit me, apparently 😒 office culture is inherently fatfobic and anti woman.

I was fired for ethical violations when I reported I was raped by my manager to Human Resources. It was a smoke shop and they still acted just like a corporate office however cool the job… ughh

@CalebTheOwlBoy

4 ай бұрын

So sorry you weren't defended as you should have been. That's awful

@seabreeze4559

4 ай бұрын

why not the Police?

@hvbg

4 ай бұрын

​@@seabreeze4559 The police (and the justice system in general) are Not great at dealing with rape cases

@Nonelovesyou

4 ай бұрын

@@seabreeze4559they don’t care

@Nonelovesyou

4 ай бұрын

Go post about it

I had a workplace change their dress code because of me 🙃 I wore a dress that COMPLETELY covered me - had sleeves, up to neck, past knee, and then the next day I had a meeting about how inappropriate my clothes were because it "distracted the boys". All were older than me too. They spoke to me before the guys.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

UGH I hate that so much, I'm really sorry that happened to you, it sucks

“Should I write in my notebook that I did not sexually harass anyone today?” At a family gathering, my father dropped that little gem about how to document instances of inappropriate behavior during anti-harassment training. He was damn proud of himself for being so clever.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

peak boomer humor 🙄

@b.c.9358

3 ай бұрын

"Is it really so rare of an occurrence that you have to write it down?" I gotta wonder why not sexually harassing someone stands out as such a unique event that he feels the need to write it down.

I have to agree that 50s style is fantastic and it's really bs that they gave you shit for that. I feel like there's just no way to be a woman and be treated like you're dressing ok. People either say you're too revealing or you look like a slob. There's a very narrow window for a woman's sense of fashion that can be considered appropriate, especially in the office. and I do NOT understand how in the year 2024 we are still managing to make black women uncomfortable for wearing their hair naturally. We should have been past this decades ago. It's wild👠👓

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

The whole "natural hair texture isn't professional" thing really boggles my mind, it really shows how entrenched racist beliefs still are, I fully agree with you!

@AuntieMamies

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire exactly. It perpetuates this idea that black people don't belong in the workplace. Super harmful.

As a woman, i only wear hoodies and leggings to my office job. I stopped caring after they brought us back into the office. Im not being uncomfortable in slacks all day. Our butts are supposed to be covered so i put a trench coat on when i have to leave my office 🤷🏻‍♀️ they havent said anything to me yet lol

@thesingerintheshower

4 ай бұрын

Lol!! The audacity!! 😄 🤣 😂 😆 I love it ❤❤❤

I hope you mention how religious “purity culture” worsens “slut” shaming. A lot of abuse happens in conservative communities. As for this topic, I’m a civilian at a U.S. military base. They’ve aggressively pushed anti-SA and harassment measures. Has it helped? Maybe…. But I work in a medical group that deals with patients. Slightly different than down range.

Working in a male dominated industry I felt the need to dress more masculine to be taken seriously as a woman when working in the office. I hate that. Since working from home I'm all pinks, purples and flowers and sooo much happier for it ❤

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

It's a tough gig for sure, and I'm positive that guys expected you to "be able to handle the heat" or whatever bs too. I love wfh life for the same reason, you can just feel comfortable and safe all the time!

I’ve been threatened by my bosses in the past that I’d be fired for not wearing a bra. I always dress conservatively at work and cover up with cardigans. My boobs are small, so it’s never noticeable anyway. Who’s looking so hard to see if I’m wearing one or not under jackets?? 🤔

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Pervs at the office be like 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀 "we're the ones looking closely"

@kellijasper5912

4 ай бұрын

As a woman in my fifties I have seen quite a bit of attention seeking in my time particularly in the workplace. Going bra-less in a business setting can be seen as an attention seeking move. So the real question is WHY is going bra-less necessary?

@InsoIence

4 ай бұрын

@@kellijasper5912 Whatever 'real question' means in this case, why is putting a bra on necessary?

@kellijasper5912

4 ай бұрын

@@InsoIence why is putting on underwear necessary? Why is putting in clothes necessary? Why did you even think that was a viable question?

@InsoIence

4 ай бұрын

@@kellijasper5912 If those are simple questions, shouldn't be too hard to answer, right?

Girl i wear black Lipstick regularly to work. I have always dressed alternatively and been told it wont be acceptable in the workplace. So far no ones complained so im going to continue wearing my black lipstick and wearing my alternative clothes and people can just deal with it lol🖤🖤🖤

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I love that, and honestly really hope that you don't get negatively affected for dressing how you feel most authentic and comfortable :)

@autumnfranke

4 ай бұрын

@BryonyClaire honestly as you pointed out it doesn't matter how we present ourselves someone will always not like it so I might as well dress how I want and let them be mad about it instead of making myself smaller just to be treated the same

At my old job there was a dress code policy that said that we couldn't wear yoga pants. Office managers did not follow this rule all the time and would often give a pass to the ladies at work that they liked and the younger ladies who weren't curvy. Well one of the curvy ladies decided to wear black slacks to work, the shape of them on her was similar to how yoga pants look. She got called into the office for dress code violation. They thought she was wearing yoga pants. She proved to them that she was wearing slacks but they said they looked too much like yoga pants and she couldn't wear them to work again. The office manager who was writing her up was wearing yoga pants.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

women gotta stop doing this to eachother! Ugh! It's literally policing people's bodies and sexualising coworkers

@bobojenkins5805

3 ай бұрын

by curvy you mean fat lets call things what they are

I still don't understand corporate dress standards. Like, WHY is a suit somehow work appropriate (it's ACTUAL fashion equivalent is either the tea dress or the cocktail dress, depending on suit) I've been denied a promotion because i wouldn't wear makeup to work (and that was somehow unprofessional) and because i wore basically the exact same thing my male coworker who got the promotion wore (khakis and a button down - i wore flats, he wore tennis shoes) but again, on ME, it was unprofessional. I won my case in HR that it was discrimination, but not only did i not get promoted, i was TRANSFERRED since I'd made it a "hostile work environment" by complaining. But i HAD to complain, since they started writing me up for my "unprofessional attire" (thankfully my coworker was on my side, he even offered to step down so i could be promoted, but of COURSE the answer was to transfer me. Grrrr) I was later told, at that same job, that blistex (which is like a better chap stick. It's medicated lip balm) was *too much makeup* (of which i was still wearing zero) and i wasn't allowed to apply it at work anymore, at least not where i could be seen. I pointed out the manager who wore a ton of makeup with VERY RED lipstick, but was told it was different because i was "young and attractive" while she was mid 30s and had a smaller bust than me. (She was actually very pretty, and *I* think was prettier than me...) Just could NOT win. One of the very VERY few advantages about being disabled is i don't have to deal with this BS 👠👡👓

@ladyeowyn42

Ай бұрын

Name and shame

@sainttheresetaylor2054

6 күн бұрын

wtf

It is much harder for curvier women, because it is more difficult to find styles that flatter your body. I have an hourglass shape, but if I don't wear things hat hug the body more closely, i look like a giant rectangle because I have wide hips. If a woman with a larger bust wears a loose shirt, it can just hang down and make it look like they are hiding a big stomach. Sometimes these outfits have to be more form fitting so a woman can feel her best. Granted, it doesn't need to be painted on, but if a woman is covered up and feels confident what is the issue? It's up to the men to suck less and stop $exualizing women in the work place, not the women to stop wearing clothes that make them feel confident.

@amethystdream8251

4 ай бұрын

Well said

The slut shaming video is a great idea. It’s weird to call it “slut shaming” when it comes to children, but I must say, working at a primary school has opened my eyes to the problem. My coworkers will point at little girls wearing tights, mini skirts and shorts and say such misogynistic and questionable things. How could you possibly see a ten year old wearing a miniskirt and say it’s inappropriate. They’re 10! That’s what they’re supposed to wear. Why are you sexualizing a child? And it’s always towards taller girls with more pronounced curves.

@johncrow5552

Ай бұрын

why are the parents sexualizing their children by allowing them to wear such attire?

If they don’t want to pay me for my effort, talent and worth as a living person in a capitalist society, all their getting is jeans, sneakers and a sweater.

Instantly clicked on this. I wish it was longer. OH BOY, could I rant about this subject for pages and pages. The 2nd job I ever had, the work uniform was yoga pants. They wanted their receptionists to be eye candy. * GAG * The harassment from male customers was NON STOP. Us girls (some were minors) were hit on, leered at, threatened, and stalked by men old enough to be grandfathers. At subsequent jobs, I went overboard to "cover up" in the hopes that harassment would never happen again. Baggy, oversize, androgynous outfits every stinking day. A coworker told me that the loose fitting pants I wear every day "look like pajamas". And you know what? The men are still creepy. They still leer shamelessly, they still get in my personal space, they still hound with the personal questions. At my current job, change of attitude and the way I act towards them helped >a tiny bit

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Gag omg every example you gave is disgusting! It really sucks how you have to try to be as aloof, and disinterested as possible to not have this behavior still happen. And the thing is it does, regardless of what you try and do, change the way you dress or act or whatever

@The_Super_NOVA

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire YES exactly! And even then, a lot of sickos take obviously disinterested attitude as "just playing hard to get" AND THEY TRY EVEN HARDER to mess with you! That breaches into the realm of "no means no" which is a whole topic in itself. Video idea? :)

@mika_kalea9463

4 ай бұрын

No! Don‘t stop! Write that book! 😂

“It’s like pushing boundaries isn’t something that they want to do unless it’s other people’s boundaries.” God I wish you were wrong but you’re 100% right

@EmL-kg5gn

4 ай бұрын

👠👓

I remember being told I was dressed inappropriately for work in a chemistry lab because I was wearing my lab coat too tight. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄😑 👠👓

I swear, every week there's a new fashion trend being analyzed (not complaining, it's all very interesting and the outfits are so cute!). Meanwhile I'm just all weird crewneck sweatshirts and baggy jeans!

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Haha I get what you mean, this is the first one I really wanted to use as a launchpad for a topic which is v close to my heart and something I know so many struggle with. Plus I'd just say you have your own personal style - which is great! And v sustainable too as you're not constantly cycling through new clothes :)

@mmps18

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire thank you! lord knows personal style doesn't ever become a fast fashion trend you are so right. Thank you Bryony for your inclusive feminist analyses always!

Jordan Peterson: "Women only wear lipstick to attrack men." Lipstick Lesbians: * existing * Peterson: 🤯

@peachesandcream22

3 ай бұрын

Impossible! Didn't you know that lesbians only exist for male sexual phantasies? /sarc

Hey! Thanks for talking about such topics. As women, it seems we can never win. I never had to follow a strict dress code - I was told not to wear flip flops or sandals (which were not heeled) at best, and that was when I was a second-language (English) teacher lol. It's been years since I shifted to home office in another career. Honestly, "being feminine" was my default as a child. I see how my insecurities - along with some misogyny, sadly - started from age 12 due to hearing so much bad feedback or backhanded compliments in the part of the family - the women specifically - I grew up with. Note that my parents themselves were never derogatory towards my appearance, only other relatives. The worst period was up until the end of my teens, then I got my misogyny sorted out as I reflected more and more. The insecurities have stayed. Every time I had tried or try to tap into my feminine side, it feels like I'm just a joke, or men would look at me in a disgusting way. Add PCOS, other traumas and mental health issues, to that and it's... difficult to say the least. Reconnecting with Sailor Moon has surprisingly helped me a little, but I guess I wrote this much because I feel ridiculous today in a more feminine presentation I put on. And I'm inside the house lol. Anyways... thanks again. Hope your discussions may bring some comfort or enlightenment to many people out there!

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I'm v glad that your parents weren't derogatory about your appearance, but it sucks when there's other family members who tear people down especially when they're young. This internalised misogyny really just amplifies patriarchal issues.

@lifeimitation

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire Yes, sometimes all I can think of is "It's so easy to laugh, it's so easy to hate, it takes guts to be gentle and kind", from lyrics written by someone who sadly ended up supporting the far right, besides not being the kindest from what I read, and this makes it all even harder somehow. People really are something...😔 I'll never fully understand it.

Please tell me more about librarian-core. I never knew my job was a "core." I'll tell you what we actually wear: thrift store or fast fashion clothes (because the pay is crap and most jobs are part-time), long hair (can't afford frequent cuts), flat shoes (because we spend a lot of time on our feet), a cardigan (because heat and humidity are bad for books and technology, so it's cold at work) a water bottle (and chapstick - see humidity), and a cross-body bag to protect against theft. Also, we wear glasses. Yes, we've all ruined our eyes with excessive reading (and screen time). That's definitely true.

I work in pest control. I wear long work pants, long sleeve button up, work boots and a hat. Literally “dressed like a man” and I still have been sexually harassed by coworkers and customers. It’s crazy.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I'm really sorry you've endured that, honestly it's so frustrating because there's so much victim blaming about it still, you start to question everything and it's not YOUR fault, it's on THEM

I think it's all about capitalism and elitism! They want us to spend money on a whole separate category of unnecessary clothing. WFH showed that people can do their jobs in their PJs! Historically, people used to wear either a uniform or their worse clothes because the assumption was that "nice" clothing would get ruined at work. Now, it's about projecting the "look" upper management finds appealing.

Bryony, you make such a good analysis on the analogy of appropriate workplace attire and the edge of double standards when it comes to us women then versus men. This is frankly a global issue that’s not just happening in the U.K and the U.S, but it is everywhere and in every country. The patriarchy will never vanish until we get our brothers, uncles, fathers, nephews, boyfriends, grandsons, and male friends to fight with us. Btw 👓👠

Make sure it's tailored, but not if you're curvy, there is literally nothing 'appropriate' if you are curvy. My workplace underwent drastic dress code changes when everyone on that committee were women in menopause, "no sleeveless tops, fuck that!"

Yes I'd love to see your take on slut-shaming affecting children! This is why I've always struggled to dress for work, and why I prefer to take jobs that let me dress casually. I currently work at a Pilates studio and I can wear anything from smart casual to workout clothing, I'm so grateful! I can't focus on work if I don't feel comfortable in looser fitting clothes tbh

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I would love for workplaces to get a more relaxed attitude to clothing going, I know here in Aotearoa it is slightly more casual than other places, but it's still rigid. I fully understand the need to feel comfortable, and I'm so happy you're working somewhere that you can dress how you do feel ok :)

As a child who was curvy and grew quite large breasts, I was ALWAYS told what I was wearing was more inappropriate than my peers. Basic Jean shorts, t shirts with semi wide necklines, tank tops, any shirt that was fitted, all of these basic items drew in comments and objectification. Of a child!!! I had to learn how to dress to hide my body and make myself look more androgynous so as to not be singled out. Messed up!

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

It's so gross you had to go through that, so many girls have had the same experience and its priming you to blame yourself as you grow up, it's no ok. The fact you have to "defensively dress" to try to deter people is so messed up

In the end, all that matters to employers is how productive you are and how much money they can make off your labor. They don't give a damn about what you wear, it's the coworkers and managers who have fixed ideas on what's ''work appropriate attire'' and they get to feel powerful if they reprimand others on issues that aren't issues at all. Every ounce of power they can squeeze out bc they feel helpless is what gets them up in the morning. otherwise they have to admit they're miserable and want others to feel the same.

I have yet to hear jack shit about the office siren trend but lemme tell you i am geting VISCERAL flashbacks to the double edged sword of my hs debate team outfit being (to me) a suit of badass armor that made me look and feel like a lawyer vs (to some boys and coaches) a purposeful attempt to distract and intimidate. Luckily i got to keep my badass vibes (which were a black/ silver set of dress pants and matching blazer, and i had a red+silver blouse or a red+black blouse to match, and a set of low heels, hair was usually in a braid, and minimal makeup) because i pointed out the rule that debators had to be looking at the panel of judges and not eachother. Its not my fault hes intimidated if jes breaking the rules to look at me. Fuckers were just mad i argued circles around them. ETA- the body type thing tho. I am also and have pretty much been since the start of puberty very busty. I cup busty. And i have deadass had people tell me it doesn't matter if the clothing is exactly the same on the hanger- if it makes me "look obscene" when i wear it then its not appropriate. Yeah thats fair. Totally not an subjective rule that is hinged on whether or not the person making the call has decided my body is "obscene" which is defined as: "(of the portrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency." And something i will be able to accommodate, both financially and with the ability to gauge the varying opinions of authority figures on my body. Seems like an extremely logical and valid thought process. Can i go live in a hut in the woods by myself?

@conversesocks1966

4 ай бұрын

This made me think back to hs debate too! Something I experienced a lot was people (often times male competitors) being surprised that I was smart and competent. Took me a while to realize it but it happened so much more often when I was wearing more fitted clothing

@motorcitymangababe

4 ай бұрын

@@conversesocks1966 yuuuuuup. Like bro- me looking out together and having twice the amount of evidence to back my arguments compared to you may indicate a trend but I garuntee the lipstick isn't why you lost.

@freddogrosso9835

3 ай бұрын

Shoulder pads are the closest to pauldrons we can wear.

tell me a place where women havent been told what they should wear ☺

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

I would say in their own homes but nope - there's expectations there too!

When I was in training, my group was mostly women with the remaining two us being guys, so when we covered the dress code for men, it took about five seconds. For the women, it literally blew up into a whole discourse between the women and our trainer (also a man) concerning what did and didn't pass code. That took maybe 20 minutes of them going back and forth while me and the other male trainee just kept it mute and minded our business, lol

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Would have loved it if you chimed in saying how ridiculous how many rules there were for women - that's the sort of support we need :)

I’m sorry to hear about your workplace sexual harassment. I had an experience with inappropriately sexual workplace behaviour at a job where i literally wore baggy jeans and hoodies everyday - we really can’t win )-:

I'm so happy I was able to build a corporation friendly wardrobe with my actual style (alternative/goth) all over it, it was kinda tricky but ppl always compliment me and it makes me feel so happy! They say it reflets my personality but it's also suited for work spaces, it's basically some sort of alchemy for them bc most ppl doesn't know how to incorporate those elements in their work style

I had a WOMAN I just met mention how she wore jeans to deter men at a large warehouse we worked at... Like I should take note, when I didn't ask. I honestly didn't know how to respond because I was short on time (not caring to explain to ignorance) and, dressing for my comfort and safety to do my job, with leggings, not seeking the male gaze like she assumed. I tried wearing jeans there before but it was awful doing 10-15 miles, 10-hours a night, with heavy-lifting in jeans!! No matter how I looked, or dressed, they were still attracted, and constantly harrassing.. Imagine that!! lul. Thankfully I was only there for a few months and did what I could to not report the bs when I was there to WORK. I didn't want to get betrayed for standing up for myself. So thanks for talking about this!!

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

It's really frustrating because I'm positive that woman thought she was helping, or at least coming from a place of "we're in this together, here's my tips on surviving here" but it still falls into the victim blaming trap when it's blaming the person for what they're wearing. Ugh I can only imagine being in jeans for that long doing all that manual work! I'm glad you're no longer there but it sucks that the behaviour is enabled by the women just having to live in fear and constant alertness, thats bs

👠👓 This was a great video. Let me say that as a petite curvy and I mean being 5”3” 125 lbs but you’re shapely, clothes will cling and look “inappropriate” too. I’ve noticed looks when I’m wearing an outfit that highlights my curves and someone else less curvy is wearing the same thing but they don’t seem to get noticed. Fortunately no one has said anything but I have actually turned around and caught men staring and seemingly salivating and I thought I was imagining it until one of my coworkers noticed them staring too. I am a civilian employee that works for the military in an office environment on base, and as you said, the military is rife with harrasment smh 😟

My gripe is that I'll see "aesthetics" that feature the STEM industry, but a lot of it is impractical/expensive/unsafe for working conditions. I'm here to represent your average woman who just clocks in to get the work done with no makeup on and not get into a WHS incident👷‍♀👩‍🔬👓🥾

It comes down to a lack of respect from men. They need to be raised better by their parents, peers and society at large. They need to be taught to respect womens boundaries

THIS! Thank you so much for making this. US millennial here (1994). Being multiracial and being born into a family where my mom's side has curvy hips/butts/thighs and my dad's side has bigger chests, I've been sexualized at jobs even if I'm wearing a skirt that's neutral and comes to my knee or lower. I was also denied a food service job despite having a good interview (mind you I was a teen at the time) because the man (in his 50s) who was interviewing me told me "I didn't look like I cared because I didn't put on any make up for the interview" and that I "could've at least put on some lipstick". I played into the respectability and wore pants and a shirt that revealed nothing, and my hair was neat, but because homeboy was thinking with his dick he turned away a hard worker. I was a teen in high school, not even 18 yet, and from below poverty line, so I couldn't even afford make up. I was trying to help my parents and brother to be able to afford food. I've since worked many different types of fields from martial arts instruction to food service to libraries to art modeling for painting classes. It does not matter what I wear, I get sexualized against my will. Fem bodies are so damn policed due to misogyny and racism, and videos like this hopefully help people realize that these environments weren't designed for us, but now that we've been able to get into more workplaces, and they are "for us" now, we need people to realize that our bodies are for us and us alone. If they look at us as more than our gender, we'll be seen as something other than there to be a romantic/sexual conquest or an 'other' to placate with shallow acknowledgement of our differences. We need to be seen as whole people, not just bodies and geometric checklists.

Purity culture is very important in this too I’m a teen so obvs I don’t work in an office but once or twice my super super holy religious aunt literally looked me up and down and told me that my clothing is not “appropriate “ (jeans and a hoodie ) I don’t even consider myself to be that curvy either but if ur making the vid on slut shaming which u should do talk Abt the religion purity thing bc IT PLAYS SUCH A BIG PART IN THIS also when she’s on the street or smthin she literally judges everyone that is wearing clothes with shape /any cute or tight clothes like if ur not wearing a box shaped up to your nose and down past your toe navy dress your “distracting guys “ Also another thing to do w the “wearing makeup to impress men narrative “ my dad who’s conservative and watches wayy to many winging bro “wimen r awful “ vids literally told me that “no one cares about the make up and jewellery u wear there is competition “ U THINK IM HERE TO COMPETE AGAINST OTHER GIRLS IN MY SCHOOL FOR SOME CRUSTY GUYS ATTENTION WTF and he also said how “there’s many cretins with make up and earrings it’s nothing special “ keep in mind he and my mom were the same same ppl complaining to me when I was TEN how I don’t dress “feminine enough “ like I’d be wearing leggings and a t shirt NORMAL TEN YEAR OLD CLOTHING my mom would literally say that “I need to get her leggings with skirts “ HOW DOES A TEN YR OLDS ASS BOTHER U ITS WEIRD Like I don’t even work in an office but truly this vid highlights SO SO MUCH which u don’t even realise is seeped into you as a child

👠👓 I'd be interested in watching your video on sl*t shaming.. I stayed in bad relationships far longer than I should have in my youth partly because of internalised fear of sl*t shaming.

YES! Please make that video on the psychological damage slut-shaming does on children's minds. I assume it's damaging... 😂 Another great video! ❤❤❤

I really relate to this... my first ever office job was when I joined the game industry right after I turned 23. and being the only woman not only on my team but the entire studio floor, while also trying to figure out fashion/self expression (which is much more lax & casual than most office workplaces)... was very overwhelming to navigate in a male-dominated industry. maybe one day I can share that story! also, shoutout romy and michele's highschool reunion hahaha. that movie is ICONIC I love your videos!! they're always very insightful and comforting.

I spent the past 5ish years working at psychiatric hospitals (recently left because I couldn't take the understaffing and management completely neglecting our and the patients' safety anymore, it took an actual kick to my head to realize that) and one of the few major benefits of that working environment is that you just wear scrubs. Sure there are nicer scrubs, different jackets, but everyone is wearing scrubs. Whatever color we wanted. There was no stress at all about getting dressed for work. Also, tattoos and unnatural hair colors didn't matter at all because they obviously did not affect our job performance and when a place is that understaffed in that field, they don't give a crap about blue hair or a tattoo sleeve (as long as it's not offensive/graphic/vulgar/etc). For the sake of my own mental health I don't plan on ever returning to inpatient work, but I have absolutely no idea how to dress now. Fortunately most mental health jobs at any level, at least in my area, don't care about tattoos or colored hair (already got a couple of job offers so I know they don't care). But I don't know how to dress for whatever "business casual" means. And I don't understand why it matters. I wish I could just keep wearing scrubs regardless of the job 😂

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Oof what a tough experience - the way staff and patients are treated in the medical world is horrible, and the lack of support for staff members is just awful! I fully understand you leaving and hope that you find a job that works well for you. It's great that places don't mind about tattoos or coloured hair, I work with scientists and they don't mind that either, it's very refreshing. Having a work uniform is helpful for taking away the onerous decision making, but I'd just recommend trying different things on and seeing what you feel comfortable in - to have access to a wider variety of styles go to a thrift shop maybe, because then there's also less sales pressure (plus its so much better for the environment) so you can experiment a little more to find the types of things that work for you :)

Elder millennial here. When i was young and working an office job, i tried very hard to look professional: pencil skirts, blouses, dress shoes, nylons. I was somehow both mocked as a little Amish girl for not wearing pants and also sexualized by male bosses. It was horrible. Plus if you are on the busty side, you're getting pulled aside for comments whether your blouse is modest and professional or not.

I had big weight swings and oohh , so hard to find clothes that fit, look appropriate, that i like and that i can AFFORD.... especially at a higher weight😬 when my proportions dont stay the same. Being a pear with heavy legs (lipedema?), i cant find anything that im comfortable in 😢. And its part of why im having anxiety and avoiding going to job interviews and getting a job. But i need money 😅

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

It is so hard! I'm sorry that it's affected you to the point where you're dealing with anxiety and struggling to face the job interview process (a process which objectively sucks at the best of times). Leena Norms has a really useful video about having a wardobe which works for weight fluctuations which go way beyond the typical wrap dress recommendation I'm sure people have already made, check it out, hopefully it helps!

As a male. Your explanation of the minimum we have to wear was hilarious. Lots of repect for the money, effort and time it takes to look stunning. Also, bystander training sounds awesome. *stiletto emoji* 👓

I loved that you addressed the fact that if you don’t present as aesthetically pleasing enough (in the right way obviously) then that also leads to you being disrespected and minimised by men. I don’t know if you will see this comment but I would LOVE to see you do a full video on how women’s lives are negatively impacted, both individually and at a bigger societal level, if they’re judged as conventionally unattractive by mainstream standards. From experiences of being sidelined and frozen out by men when they’re entitled to professional opportunity and interaction in the workplace and education settings, to the fact that they receive just as much objectification and harassment it’s just of a different kind to what pretty women get, to the fact that they’re just as vulnerable to violence and abuse except we don’t talk about it and when a “pretty” woman gets disbelieved because “are you sure you weren’t leading him on?” an “ugly” woman is disbelieved because “why would he even want to?” You’re one of the very few beauty/social issues vloggers I’ve seen who’s even come close to talking about this, as you have touched on pretty privilege in other videos. Because you’re so smart and insightful I know you might not feel it’s your place to talk about this as you are a conventionally attractive woman yourself. But you’re definitely a KZreadr I trust to do the research and get to know about things like this from other women’s perspectives plus I bet you’d get useful data if you survey your fans, some of whom might be stoked to have a rare opportunity to talk about this, either from personal experience or what they’ve observed in the way other women they know have been treated. Praying you see this comment and think the topic is worthy of adding to your list.

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Tee Noir has done a fantastic video called "society vs the average black woman" (2 yrs old now but worth the watch) which kind of looks into this but yeah it's something I do want to dive into. It ties into another topic I have on my list, too (a list which just keeps growing haha) and I'm v keen to get the surveys going for this again, though with all that's going on in our lives atm, probs won't be until May that I can get a survey out

I am 40 and I have no idea what professional means in any kind of objective sense. It only tells you about the observer and their values. Also i am male presenting and after 2020 I'm only wearing dungarees (overalls). Cannot abide trousers - am leaving waistbands in 2019. 👠👓

I'm a redhead. I have quite a feminine figure - I heard it all! That I'm dressing inappropriately, that I'm trying to lure, or whatever. Guys, I can put on a potato sack, but I will still have my curves, I'm just built like that! I'm not "ravishing" in bed, either. Can you stop "joking" about those?

I regularly wear green and blue lipstick. How does Jordan Peterson explain that?

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Knowing him, he'd try and say you're a "broken woman", because you're not catering to the "traditional male gaze" to which I'd just go tell him to bugger off

This is unrelated but it pains me your videos dont get more views and attention, your content is always SOO good you cover such important topics 😭. Like your content is so good, it feels like such a bizarre disconnect

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

Welcome to my feelings of inadequacy haha. I really appreciate you watching and enjoying my work though :)

My friend got SAd by a Vendor. He got fired (his company did that not hers). She was put in a centre with a male manager and her female manager that walked in on it was moved to a centre alone

@williamchamberlain2263

4 ай бұрын

Re-assignment counts a retaliatory action under most national laws, but I don't know how you'd go about getting that to court

@vg1384

4 ай бұрын

@williamchamberlain2263 it definitely does count, it's just that a law suit would make things worse. She's waiting to find another job to then sue them so that it doesn't matter what happens next

my work attire/professional wear in 2024 is matching sweatpants/sweatshirt, clean sneakers, and hair up with jewelry & a mask. I'm clean and i'm dressed. Im not here to be hot for free, im here to exchange my labor for money. edit: does anyone else also feel like pinchy-toe dress shoes/flats are fkn embarrassing or is it just me

@brownbear8754

3 ай бұрын

ty for masking 🦑🦑

@os2841

3 ай бұрын

Masks are embarassing. Stay home if you're sick, dont come to virtue-signal.

Such a good topic to cover Byronny! I started a new job a few months ago and I’m still struggling with how to dress so that I’m comfortable yet taken seriously. I’m a professional working with preschoolers all day doing home health services so this includes being on the floor for most sessions and the challenge to find outfits that are “professional” yet practical for me to wear, as well as comfortable has been so challenging 😭 Must wear closed toe shoes but sneakers not allowed, no tight pants, a skirt is absolutely out of the question just due to the nature of the work. So I started wearing what was practical for me and what I currently have in my closet, nice sweaters but comfortable stretchy pants and yes, sneakers, bc I’m literally running around with the kids all day and my feet hurt in flats, so I am trying to find a new balance and am on the hunt for affordable, comfortable scrub bottoms and nicer lowkey sneakers at this point lol but it’s just tough.. It just feels like we can’t win sometimes, either being objectified or not taken seriously because of clothing or appearance when that’s the least of what others should truly be paying attention to.

The men wear GYM SHORTS at my office. I wear sweatpants 😂

Why does everything have to be an era, why can’t things just be? You like that, wear it. I feel putting an “era” on everything makes it less unique. Then anything, in this time & age, nothing is unique and about individuality anymore.

I didnt get a notification despite having them turned on D: Love your vidoes so much they are always super interesting and insightful! c:

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

KZread doesn't like me atm, it's pretty frustrating. Sorry you weren't notified :(

@StifferLiffer

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire I'm just glad I found it fast anyway 😁 I'm gonna keep an eye out in case it happens again so I don't miss one of your uploads they are truly a highlight in my day c:

As a daughter of a teacher and as someone who used to study at the governmental college for secretaries, I decided for the rest of my life that I will NEVER EVER work in the office. And even if I worked in office, I would choose a job which doesn't put too much pressure on people and don't punish them for simple things. Office culture is so toxic, I don't want to live such lifestyle.

I always got coded for wearing clothes too baggy or masculine. Then too tight or distracting. And eventually just fired. I could never make them happy. And this was fucking food service

As a woman finishing up her degree in STEM, I'm so excited to get into the working field and start my research! As a woman going into STEM, I'd be lying if I said I'm not intimidated by the rampant misogyny and high rates of sexual harassment and assault in STEM

I’ve been campaigning for years that expecting “attractiveness” in the workplace is disgusting. I’m a former model, and former employers at corporate jobs refused to let me dress less attractively. If I’m not on a set, where I’m getting WELL compensated to “look attractive”, I don’t want to be “attractive” to anyone. But unfortunately, I had bosses who demanded I wear fitted clothing, and makeup. If I didn’t, they disrespected me and didn’t listen to me or my ideas, if I did, I got harassed at work. I tried to wear unisex button up shirts, with khaki pants, and no makeup but they wanted me to “show off my figure, since I had one” (I didn’t, I was a size 00 and had the figure of the letter I), and told me I looked so much more awake and happy when I wore makeup (which makes me horribly break out). I hated it. They even showed up to my other job where I cocktailed a couple nights a week, and sexually harassed me at my other job! It really is damned it you do, damned if you don’t.

I manage am adult shop and honestly it's the happiest I've ever been in regards to what I get to wear. The freedom to wear what I want is great and even though I deal with some creepy guys I've found that it really isn't much worse than anywhere else I've worked. I enjoy dressing up but I also enjoy the freedom I have to just put my hair up in a beanie and dress in less appealing attire.

Please. PLEASE do a vid on childhood slutshaming. I feel this is not talked about while having the potential to be so destructive

Interesting analysis, as always! And yes, I'd love to see you do a video on slut shaming and the research you foung on this. 👠👓

@thebowandbullet

4 ай бұрын

Oops, I made a typo. I meant 'found', not 'foung' 😆

i’m super interested in a video about the effects of slut shaming on our thinking!!!!! 👠🥂

the stilletto and glasses emoji Thanks for the Romy and Michelle references. Great work, as always :)

I'm quite slender and have gotten away with form-fitting tops, sleeveless anything, and even having blouse buttons undone by accident, because I guess my dainty tits "fly under the radar." My bestie has more of a vavavoom figure and if she wore anything even half as revealing as I do, she'd get negative reactions. The fact that bustier women are penalized for just existing with breasts is so gross. It reminds me of how the petite girls in high school got away with wearing short shorts, but us taller girls would get written up because we were showing "more" leg.🙄🙄🙄

I'm so happy that I work at a lab. 90% of the day I'm in work clothes, makeup is not allowed for hygiene reasons. Nobody can judge you for four outfit, makeup or hair, no stressing about what is appropriate, there are just set rules for good reasons. Saves me a lot of time, nerves and money.

👠👓 I think, this was the required emoji tax I love wearing different clothes. I like to be fashionable. I like to be comfortable. What I hate I judging people on what they wear: either you like it, or ignore it. As long as it's clean, as long as a person doesn't smell or smells slightly of something nice, I don't care. I'm a librarian, my standards are "just don't stink", and even though I'm working mostly with scholars, I don't remember a day when there wasn't anybody who reeked. So many of these PhDs etc. are disgusting. I hate school uniform just as well.

Those two emojis requested were not available on my keyboard. I'm glad that you mentioned this. At secondary school, my school blouses were tight no matter how many times I sized up on account that I developed very quickly in the chest area. My peers and even some of my teachers labelled me as a "whore", simply because unfortunately the uniform did not fit my figure very well. Due to this, I would avoid taking my school jumper off in the middle of the summer because my blouse would cling to my sweat in a way that was not considered "professional." I really feel like school uniform designs should have alternative options in terms of having a polo shirt option to be chosen if you do not feel comfortable wearing a blouse or button-up shirt. Before my secondary school changed its name and became an academy, non of my peers or teachers seemed to be bothered with or even noticed the shape of my chest.

Ok so we're on to this now. What happened to mob wife and clean girl?

I've gotten dress coded by admin at my job and suspected my coworker reported me. All because I had a mini skirt during the summer and fun cutouts in my dress another time. FFS, I had a cardigan on when I had a cutout drese. That coworker also shamed me because she said she doesn't want a male coworker to be uncomfortable with me wearing summer clothes. I caught other women (most of them were skinnier or older than me) wearing shorter dresses, skirts, or more cutouts in their clothes. Fuck my former job. It ruined me wanting to wear mini-skirts and cutouts in my dresses. I should've quit my job on the job. I'm still recovering and trying go back to what I actually like Edit: even more fucked up is that the people who dress coded me were also curvy (or plus-sized) woc. even if i'm white-passing, i was still thinking, "wtf? why are we put against each other?" it made no sense to me

Great Job! Love your deep dives

I'd love to see a video about how slut shaming affects us psychologically. I know from personal experience, it made me very anxious and fearful, but I think that was their intention. Bullies love to disguise their behavior as benevolent concern. 👠👓

Ugh i just wore a bunch of those yoga work pants (pan people cannot sit in a chair normally) slip off shoes, and sweaters. Because im freezing my ass off under 2 snuggies while using a heating pad and usb plug in hand toasties. Shit corporations could save madd cash by *maybe not air conditioning down to 50*

@Eloraurora

4 ай бұрын

Office AC is often calibrated for the comfort of the presumed average worker, AKA a middle-aged man wearing a full suit.

I didnt know there was a term for it, but I absolutely identify as an office siren. IDGAF I used to dress frumpy and not feel good about myself until I discovered my love for weightlifting. I started feeling more confident and had a glow up. Confidence aside, I never really changed my demeanor in the office. I am bubbly and have ALWAYS been thorough in my job which requires a lot of analysis. But I was treated differently. Men were generally nicer (my office thankfully has a strong no tolerance for sexual harassment that I've seen in action). Women is a mixed bag. I get nice comments and I give my own. But I absolutely get back handed compliments from a select few, comments on my body and make up. I didn't hear the end of it when I gained 10lbs from Prednisone. Here's the thing, I don't let it get to me. I like dressing feminine and soft because I already have to be hard in other areas of life. If someone has a problem with it, they are projecting. That's not a me problem. 🕶️ 👠

👠👓 Correct. It does not matter in the least what you wear. I can confirm that looking "appropriate" doesn't always or even necessarily save you from bearing the brunt of harassment.

I don't, before i dropped out of college and was looking for engineering internships I still found dressing as a man to be complicated. In theory it's just a button up tie and slacks, but somehow I always managed to get the wrong ones, and was told so (also, inteviewers didn't like my long hair and ZZ Top beard). I'm still not sure what was wrong with my outfits. Oh well, I don't gotta worry about it to drive a truck.

Nz HR person here and I presently have green hair. Our dress code is fairly casual lol

That's interesting. The training definitely comes from a call out standpoint. Same goes for the recent trend in antiracism training. It's too corporate and definitely comes more from a business and punitive space.

just catching up on your videos -(my watch later is out of control) - need to go back to higher ed ones but thank you for this! I am a teacher and the dress code rules at most schools for adults are just so silly. like honestly if teachers wanted to, we should be able to wear scrubs, especially those of us who work with the smallest kids. We get messy! We get on the floor! My school has a chill dress code for adults, but some schools it is like one step away from corporate workplace unless it is friday where you get to *gasp* wear jeans! jeans can be professional! 👓👠

👠👓 thank you for the vid!!

You and i have a very similar style. I work in an office for a chemical plant. At one point they tried to get me to dress more casually by saying that if a chemical gets on my legs its a bio hazard. I sew so i took some jean fabric and made it into a jean apron. Honestly, i earnestly think the people actually working with stuff should all have those. If chemicals get on it, they can fling it off quickly and minimize injury vs pants. Proposing that we get all the men out back into skirts got people to shut up about my clothes and now i wear what i want.

I greatly appreciate your commentary. I've struggled with this so much since I'm also curvy... I have dressed both more androgynous and very femme at work and I was constantly concerned about how I was being viewed. And when I dressed more femme is when I experienced more sexual harassment.

Girls being told. WOMEN being told. I have that flat washboard look and was told my sleeveless dress was inappropriate because Mormons don’t show their shoulders. I’m not Mormon.

Yes, thank you so much! It's such a fine line women are expected to walk to be "appropriate" and fit into their tighter and tighter gender roles.

👠👡🥾👓🕶Because I'm feeling extra today Lol I've definitely enjoyed this one. I've been there! I was 16 the first time I was sexually harassed in the work place. It wasn't the last... I would absolutely love if you did an essay on slut shaming. Surprise surprise, that's another issue I've faced

@BryonyClaire

4 ай бұрын

That's horrible, I'm so so sorry, and you're in a position where you really wouldn't know what to do, either, that would have been awful, and the fact it kept happening...ugh I hate it, I'm so sorry. I know not everyone is as vengeful as me but I hope those people who did that to you never get to enjoy those great simple pleasures in life: I hope their hot drinks are never at a temperature they enjoy, I hope they never get to enjoy the cold side of the pillow and I hope their socks are always slightly uncomfortable in their shoes and I hope the toilet paper always needs replacing when they go to the bathroom. If they can't be properly punished - may they never be comfortable!

@AlexirLife

4 ай бұрын

@@BryonyClaire Thank you Bryony. It was a long time ago. I'm nearly 50. The good news is, he's dead. Not that I had anything to do with it. He was a deeply unhappy man for a long time I left the job the next day. I ended up with a better career in a vastly different industry. One I was at far less risk of harassment in & got far more satisfaction from

It also seems to be highly variable by industry, region, and corporate culture. I work at a midwestern insurance company which is on the liberal end of the spectrum - piercings, tattoos, and sleeveless tops are common among women leadership. The company is relatively good when it comes to benefits and corporate culture and (after a record-setting EEOC lawsuit at another office most of a decade ago)takes a hard line against harassment. Post-covid, jeans are allowed every day but the standard is "dress for your day". This dress code allows for a diverse expression depending on associate role and the caliber of meetings that are happening in a given day. Most individual contributor's usually wear jeans or slacks, if not things that are even loungier without issue. I am a white trans woman well over 6', so unfortunately I really have to rely on skirt + blouse to avoid getting dress coded for a 'bare midriff' because my shirt is too short, but there are plenty of women in the office that skew femme (just as there are others that embrace a more androgynous style). My heuristic is to look at people who are in roles at or just above my level and try to match what they are doing - if perhaps somewhat more conservatively because I am trans, tall, and curvier. I have had a few times where managers have given feedback on dress code but predominantly it's been done very well and respectfully. The level of enforcement has really slid off with RTO though, and I think most managers don't care at this point unless their VP complains to them. But really, the double binds are unavoidable and you can't win with some people. I am lucky to have earned a high level of respect with my management team and that seems to let my reputation flow from my productivity more so than my presentation... But this is one of the biggest anxieties I have about switching companies. My friend (also trans and black) works as a software developer at a nearby company in the same industry, and as you might expect reports much more friction.

👠👓Love your take on this. It is exploring these issues in a much more in-depth way that really make sense to my brain. Keep up the great work!!

This was reported in an primary school ofsted report its in the Guardian if i remember. An inspector noted as part of a negative review that a female member of staff was wearing Dr Martens boots and that they were inappropriate for a teacher 😮😢

I like wearing suits but im not a siren. I dont think its internalized misogyny because i love how other women dress and have no bad feelings towards any office style. I just feel more confident being more subdued and controlled

I'm watching everything on my laptop and have no idea where or if it has emojis haha. Pretend glasses is here: