Hey. I'm Colin, author of the "Shooting Through Things" article. This is a great video, I like your step by step explanation of the bug. And I like your examples; I was not familiar with the E2M6 corridor, and remember wishing I had a clear example in the original levels at the time. I am pleased and amused that you tracked down the spot in Barrel where I first saw the bug :-) And I did a little update to my article to link to your videos.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Colin. This video would not exist if it wasn't for your original study of the bug, and all it's ramifications and consequences. It's an honor to have my videos linked in such a timeless article! Cheers!

@tetrolt

Жыл бұрын

I'm extremely racist

This is incredibly well done and deserves a thousand times more views: amazing visuals, easy to understand, and I learned a lot of new things. Blockmaps always seemed a bit alien to me, but not anymore!

@jamespwoods4324

3 жыл бұрын

Haha I wasn't even sure what I was watching, I just saw you uploaded natural instinct click here first yeah I'm a simple person who likes life uncomplicated with a few really great things to keep me going through this unholy shitshow called life and your channel is one such thing kiitos.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again decino! I'm glad I can spread some knowledge.

@danevileye

3 жыл бұрын

Despacino, you could mention the block map bug in one of your videos, suggesting the viewers to watch coincident's explanation video, so more people could get to know his work ;) (edit: now I saw Decino posted it on his community tab)

@snackermantm105

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't get here through your YT community post, YT recommended it to me in the feed, but ty.

@bannisray3683

3 жыл бұрын

Despacino! 😂

I love that photo of ID software. @9:36 For those that don't know, that was John Romero's door. He had gotten locked in his office, so Carmack took his $5000 battle axe, and chopped the door down while the office cheered him on. The photo is the aftermath of the door.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Ahahah that's awesome. I didn't know that. 🙂

@dinonuggiesguy4847

3 жыл бұрын

Id software is so goddamn dank

@theisgood0

Жыл бұрын

That is amazing!

If ahoy and decino had a love-child...

@tbone9474

3 жыл бұрын

Well compared.

@hackergaming6372

3 жыл бұрын

That is so true.

@ARTiiSTCF

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao

@kernelbug2294

2 жыл бұрын

This comment is so underrated lmao

@kernelbug2294

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, the best of two worlds

man your channel is incredibly underrated

@Doggyfizzle39

3 жыл бұрын

Both of your channels are underrated! You both are awesome in your own ways

@ol1vver

3 жыл бұрын

can we have doom 2021 experience

@BeersAndBeatsPDX

3 жыл бұрын

Nope. Undiscovered, not underrated.

@a4arick106

3 жыл бұрын

Man

@ToastyPanda

3 жыл бұрын

Criminally underrated

The phrase “Oh, come on, man! He was right in front of your shotgun!” has always been associated with XCOM but I always thought it might fit in a game like Doom. Now is the time.

@demogorgonzola

3 жыл бұрын

In Fallout you can raise accuracy percentage by investing skill points up to 300% but after all the modifiers whatever it turns to be it's hard-capped at 95% making sure that 1 in 20 shot misses. Also if you have good enough armor/perks it is very possible for a player to be shot by enemy with a minigun burst and have it either miss or hit ...for 0 damage. It's even funnier if you have jinxed trait - don't shot back at enemies and all unused action points go into armor class lowering their success chance even more to the point they'll eventually suffer a critical failure and destroy the weapon and/or hurt themselves. :)

@sierra1513

3 жыл бұрын

@@demogorgonzola no joke, I got a critical failure with the starting 10mm pistol while shooting the first couple of rats in the cave

So this is why decino missed many pistol shots on a Shotgunner in his Plutonia outtakes video.

Psychotherapist: "Three-armed Doom Guy isn't real. He can't hurt you." Three-armed Doom Guy: 10:35

I remember finding a quote from John Carmack about his regrets over the blockmap, apparently there was a much faster, simpler, easier, more accurate method of collision detection right in front of him...The BSP! He didn't go into details on how he'd specifically would have used it, but it would have 100% eliminated the blockmap and its associated issues

@TheExFatal

2 жыл бұрын

What's the BSP?

@Xilefian

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheExFatal the technique that Doom uses to partition its maps to speed up rendering (can very quickly find where the camera is if you're discarding 50% of the data every step) That speed would have been perfect for quickly finding exactly which wall a collision occurred against (if any).

@coxandrewj

2 жыл бұрын

Binary Space Partitioning. Basically, your environment can be dumbed down to a binary tree. It’s an easy way to store information about real spaces

@teranokitty

Жыл бұрын

I think this may have been about the reject table, not the blockmap. Carmack realized later that BSP would've handled reject table's job.

And this is why John Carmack is one of the most brilliant minds we have in gaming. At least in coding aspects. Pulling this off in 1993 is astounding

@normanred9212

Жыл бұрын

He was absolutely awful with Running Id, but he was young

I feel like I'm watching a National Geography documentary about Doom, the videos are getting better and better :) also rip many uv max runs.

@medexamtoolsdotcom

3 жыл бұрын

It's weird, that what goes on in a game can become treated so seriously, like the results might be published in something like a scientific journal, when it's all built on bugs in a physics engine.

@expendableround6186

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not enough of a DOOM purist to say that fixing bugs like this is a bad thing, _because it’s not._

@DinnerForkTongue

2 жыл бұрын

@@expendableround6186 Me neither. And if it breaks demo compatibility, as a non-speedrunner I say "oh well". Blockmap bug is the #1 reason why I don't use the Eternity engine, and haven't completed Heartland to this day.

The first pentium was actually 66mhz, the 60mhz Pentium was created later on and was released on the same day as the 66mhz.

@michaeldonoghue9015

3 жыл бұрын

Whether 60 or 66, the Pentium really dished out some megahurts to the math calculations for Doom.... .... 😆

@nitroraptor5316

3 жыл бұрын

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 Well, the Pentium 66 had cooling issues. To my understanding, the rejects were downclocked 6mhz and sold way cheaper. Intel wasn't a bunch of crackheads until the 2000's.

@nitroraptor5316

3 жыл бұрын

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 Well. they had to. Otherwise it was just a waste of money, materials and time.

@allcapsdown

3 жыл бұрын

what

@nitroraptor5316

3 жыл бұрын

@@allcapsdown lemme guess. You’re from Gen Z?

WHY THE HELL DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS BACK IN 1994?!

@igorthelight

3 жыл бұрын

Because you had to ask Carmack himself ;-)

Thanks for this! Every time I was in chat and ppl said that something was a blockmap issue, I just cluelessly nodded along, but now I know :D Feels good.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help 🙂

@jamespwoods4324

3 жыл бұрын

I don't understand half of this shit with Doom and I am literally supposed to have the iq of a genius due to aspergers syndrome but fuck me I can be stoopid at times 😂😂😂

God the amount of times I’ve tried to chainsaw a pinky and I somehow didn’t kill it. Thank you for this explanation!

Doom Analysis with a solid color background, name a more iconic duo. For real tho, solid content, keep it up!

This is like the smol d man's analysis vid but the wall is light blue

This video is waaaaay too good, production quality is high and it's so easy to understand, you are waaay too underrated mister I'm sure you're channel will do great!!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the compliment! Glad you enjoyed it.

Decino sent me here.

The grid system is funny to me cause it's what Terraria and Minecraft implemented to reduce performance issues due to being large worlds. edit: Your videos makes Doom feel like the game version of The Art Of War. Old ideas but still used and useful still today.

Very underrated detail, but I love how you use the cyan color for background - in Doom, it's the color id used for transparency

This reminds me of my own solution to 3D collision. I'm using GameMaker Studio, which has built-in 2D collision checks. For collision with enemies/objects, rather than dividing the map into blocks, I use the built-in 2D collision, with extra large 2D colliders to determine what close enough to *possibly* collide (including a buffer zone to avoid fast-moving objects "passing through" other, smaller ones), and once I have that list I perform my own 3D collision checks between those objects manually. As for terrain, it actually is broken up into similar 2D chunks or "blocks". My terrain collision is handled with heightmaps, and I only load the chunks that the player is in, nearby (within a radius of the player), or could teleport to. Moving objects that are active outside the player radius also have their own radius added to this load list. This was all influenced by info I've learned about DOOM, Super Mario 64, and the early Crash Bandicoot and Spyro games. Thanks, KZreadrs.

This is some top tier analysis video, very similar to decnio’s stuff, I love it ! this deserves thousands of views!

So when are we getting Doom explanation videos with bright magenta thumbnails? We already have yellow and cyan

OMFG, my mind is blown! It makes absolute sense why it can take more then 3 shots to kill a Cyberdemon with a BFG sometimes. Even when shooting Barons with a SSG, I never understood why sometimes it wouldn't die in 6 shots. I assumed it was RNG with the pellets... I was not aware of this way of collision detection at all. Thanks so much for explaining this in detail!

I'm honestly not sure if this isn't just decino doing a funny voice, awesome work man. Subscribed.

Even the cross sections are flawed. Large enough enemies will become melee resistant if attacked head on. Sure, with the fist you can just aim diagonally, but with the chainsaw (which locks you onto the enemies center) your only hope is to circle strafe an hope your lucky enough to cross one of the lines. Anything with a radius of over 33 units (66 x 66 bounding box) becomes essentially chainsaw proof. Basically arachnotrons, mancubi, masterminds, and cyber demons can't be chainsawed and can only be punched diagonally. My advice is this: if it's too big to fit through an exist door , it's too big to easily Melee.

This mans is literally Decino 2

@HOWLWOLF

3 жыл бұрын

Decino 2: Hell on Earth

@Slayer3915

3 жыл бұрын

@@HOWLWOLF Heck*

@Hayden49

3 жыл бұрын

Rerere hi hahaha

@mjc0961

3 жыл бұрын

@@HOWLWOLF Don't watch his 21st upload, I hear it really sucks. 😋

@cryptofish384

3 жыл бұрын

Nah.. coincident is really his own unique content creator. He does some really cool classic doom speed run with commentary if you haven’t checked that out. But anyway, both are great in their own way.

I've gotta say, the visuals and editing on this video are great and really help to keep it interesting and clear to understand, great job. I'm surprised you don't have more subs

@coincident

Жыл бұрын

Much appreciated!

This video is masterclass with all of the illustrations. I have a feeling this was a very complex issue to understand and figure out how to present clearly, but the result is so good that I never once felt confused. The whole time I kept thinking I could never make something like this and wondering how people put together videos like this. Then at the end, you said it took you six months, and I thought, "Oh, that's how: tons of time and effort."

Thanks for the effort of making this one. It demonstrated the whole thing very clearly from a very basic way that everybody could understand.

I love your video style! It reminds me of the channel named Ahoy, and I can tell you’re going to be one of my favorite channels down the line

@DinnerForkTongue

3 жыл бұрын

Same here. I love it already.

The moment the grid was mentioned, I already had an idea on what the bug was going to be. That’s large grid-blocks in old games for ya.

This video is near perfection to me, the only info that I missed from it is how some of the sourceports fixed this bug. Awesome video.

@expendableround6186

2 жыл бұрын

Source port quirks are much more benign and easier to put up with than a bug that makes shots phase through the enemy.The latter is akin to _tripping_ in that it renders your inputs useless.

@Vitz_atelier

2 жыл бұрын

@@expendableround6186 I'm aware. I just wanted to see him show how the programmers who made the sourceports fixed the issue.

Whoa...this was absolutely fascinating! You my friend have a brand new subscriber and an upvote! I remember when Doom came out in 1993 and to be honest...we didn't care that it had bugs. It was a true game changer and what first introduced me into the world of PC gaming. In late 1994 my parents decided they had enough of me trying to find a way to play Doom on a console and be happy with it. My dad helped me build a 486DX2@66Mhz and it ran Doom quite well.

This has burned me more times then I care to remember. Very informative video Coincident!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Loved the video, and i can tell you put a lot of work into it :)

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Starduster! Yep, this video was a lot of work. I'm wishing I could create more analysis videos quicker, but it's not easy.

So glad you got into the potential of a player using it to their advantage and potential applications in deathmatch - two things I was wondering about during the first half. Seems pretty unlikely to be practical as a DM strat. Fantastic vid!

The application of this glitch that you used in that Zone 300 map was brilliant. A month and a half late, but fantastic video.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

just the fact that the blockmaps are communicated to the player on the map was something I never really knew. But I pretty much only used ZDoom (and by extension GZdoom, Skulltag, and Zandronum) so I was rarely if ever affected by it.

This was awesome, dude. Glad to have caught it, I always love seeing technical breakdowns of Doom.

You managed to combine both decino and Ahoy in the way you made this video! That's impressive!

It's cool to see this explained in such a clear and easily digestible way; thanks for making this helpful video!

Funny thing, the first time I heard of the blockmap wasn't this video. It was in a book titled "Game Engine Black Book: DOOM", where proceeding it was an anecdote about how after DOOM's release John Carmack found out from Bruce Naylor, basically the foremost authority on BSP trees, that the BSP tree used to render Doom's geometry could also have been used for collision detection, eliminating the need for the blockmap entirely. If this had been found out earlier, when Carmack was coding the engine, this bug wouldn't even exist.

I gotta thank decino for recommending this channel. Instant sub .

Nice video! I've always wondered about this phenomenon, now it makes much more sense.

What a well-put video coincident, I never understood 100% the blockmap bug, now I do. I hope you can do this kind of video eventually, tho I know it is a heck of work...

All the effort into making this video really payed off! Amazing content.

This is some really good explanation. I really like how you took the time to explain in deep what it's this bug, specially the benefits about dividing the map entirely by squares. Great job! I'll be looking forward to see more content.

Wow that explains why sometimes my punches or chainsaws miss even tho I'm point blank and dead center on the monster. Also explains why sometimes it takes 2 bfg blasts to kill a cyberdemon and sometimes 6+. Almost 30 years after release and we're still learning new things in Doom.

Great video and really informative ! I really liked your detailed informations and graphics, they helped simplify everything a bit

i 110% guarantee that sentient singularity John Carmack was fully aware of this bug.

Fascinating video - I love learning about odd technical stuff like this in games, and you explained it really well here; the animations really help with illustrating the bug. This deserves way more views, keep up the great work!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Glad to know the animations help; the work was not in vain!

I love in-depth and niche Doom videos. Great work, the illustrations were worth the wait. Looking forward to more!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you; glad you enjoyed this. These can take a while to get done, but there are plans for more in the future.

This was a wonderfully made presentation of the blockmap bug.

This explains why the chainsaw and punch points you to the target center on hit: To increase the chance of hitscan being on the right blockmap and reduce corner cases

Bro, since Decino there has not been any other guy to present Doom's technical details and stuff in a comprehensible, entertaining and fun way!!! Keep it up :3

This is of great quality ! And I think it also answers why I was having some issues with some actors while modding for Doom in a specific map

Six months for one video, that takes serious chops. Thank you for your dedication. The extra time you took getting all the visualizations and examples right definitely made such an esoteric concept easier to understand. If you'd just tried to brute force the explanation, I think this video would have been boring and frustrating instead of entertaining and informative.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

That's great to know! Thank you 🙂

Animations and all the visuals helps undersrtand a lot. Subscribed.

Came from a Decino post. This is awesome dude. Liked this video and subscribed for more videos like this.

Very informative video. We’re always learning new things about these old games!

I came because of decino, and damn i love it. You explain very well and i really like your voice

This video is quite incredible, it has answered a question I had for so long in such a clear and interesting way! Very very nice

Great video! Quick and informative while being really easy to understand with lots of examples nice job 👍

Another narrating doom player and analyst. Beautiful!

Judging by the other stuff on this channel, it was hard to imagine the same person narrating an analysis video, but your narration was actually great. Very good use of visuals to illustrate concepts too.

@coincident

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Thanks for the video. I needed a refresher on the theory. Well made.

I've written a lot of blockmap generation code in ZokumBSP. The blockmap bug also affects monsters. One of my tests were a Doom 2 nm run by Henning Skogstø. The player would actually die on map02 due to taking more damage from shotgunners than intended IF the origin of the blockmap was moved. So if the goal is to avoid monsters and just get to the exit, the blockmap bug and moving alongside the block edges can reduce incoming damage from hitscan enemies. These tend to be the real killers in most speed runs as projectiles are dodgable. Nightmare is substantially harder with perfect collission detection due to the added damage in some areas. I did manage to create "perfect" id compability blockmaps in the end. Some bugs led to desyncs on one map where the player would still exit, and then died on the next map. This took me a while to figure out since it was also a bit into the run :). If you're a mapper and you're annoyed with a key section having buggy blockmap behaviour, ZokumBSP can have a custom origin point, allowing the mapper to decide where the grid lines up. This could of course make other areas problematic, so one might have to compromise a bit no matter what for some layouts. If you're interested in blockmap hackery, check out Block Rocking Bytes: doomwiki.org/wiki/Block_Rocking_Bytes There are also several other blockmap related bugs. The 0000 header problem being one of them, faulty collission detection at low speed is another.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the comment. That was very insightful. For any mappers looking at this and wanting to move the blockmap around, make sure to check ZokumBSP (if you haven't already): doom2.net/zokum/zokumbsp/

Was waiting for some specific timer for few minutes on other game, come to YT to kill a bit of time, let's just say I've missed it :). Great video

Hey, I like your vids. I know I'm late to the party on this one but I found your shorts through decino's channel and stuck around to see more. Cheers!

@coincident

2 жыл бұрын

You're not late; the party is still going 😎 Welcome!

Yes! Finally! I waited for this video for quite a lot of time. I'm so happy to see that it gave you a huge boost of viewers and subscribers, I think you bring the best DOOM content to KZread these days, and I really hope that it will give you motivation to increase your activity and bring us some more cyan videos and awesome speedruns :)

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Yo Ya! These take a while to be made. But rest assured, there are more plans for more cyan videos in the future.

Honestly, great video! I learned a lot and was genuinely entertaining to watch. Subbed and hoping for a lot like this, it's great content and this video deserves tons of views. Cheers!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, and welcome aboard. Cheers!

Please MORE! This was an amazing surprise to see in my recommended - amazing narration, it reminded me a lot of xboxahoy! Immediately subbed!

You got some great content dude, i hope you'll get a heckton of subscribers!

Amazingly well done!

I’ve been blessed by the KZread reccomended feed! This was a very interesting and informative video!

Discovered your channel after Decino's shoutout. Love me some DOOM engine deep dives, insta-subbed!

Really well put together 👍

Awesome video bro, I hope you make more analysis videos!

I didn't know about that! Thanks for this excellent video... and happy new year btw!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Happy new year!

I have played a lot of doom and I had no idea this bug even was a thing. Very interesting video.

This video is very good. You deserve more recognition! good content

Nice work, easily understood and was fun to watch, I had that bug often and it was frustrating when bullets werent hitting the enemies

I need more of this lovely analysis voice of yours

wow i think i found my type of channel, thanks decino!! awesome video btw, so much detail !

What a coincidence. Yesterday I ressurected old Pentium PC with original Doom 1 on it and experienced this bug. And today I recieved perfect explanation on it. Great video! Thanks!

Really glad I found this channel.

You triggered my PTSD ,for I had to calculate time complexities for algorithms this year for my uni.

Fascinating - and considering decino is also praising you then you've got a 'subscribed' from me!

Extremely well done and expertly narrated. Subscribing now before this channel blows up.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you and welcome aboard!

Less than two thousand subscribers for videos like this is absolutely criminal. Glad to be aboard!

I had no idea this was a thing until Decino mentioned it and your channel in a video. It explains a lot though, I often wondered why obvious hits didn't count sometimes.

Dude, this video was awesome! Subbed and put notifications on, I can't wait for your next video.

Nicely explained! I just subscribed to this awesome channel

Nice. The animated examples were helpful and they looked good. Clearly a lot of work went into this video.

And one more thing related to Doom.Since there is no recoil of in any weapon in doom the sprites for any weapon that has hit scan spread,so basicly the closer you shoot with the shotgun the bigger concentration of sprites and further targets get hit with the less concentrated sprites of a shotgun.Also chaingun has sprites and it has the same rule goes for the pistol so further you shoot with those weapons the less concentration of sprites there is but still there is a chanece to hit an enemy further away from you with even with using the pistol.

Awesome video! Keep the good work! :D

Nice! More Doom content! Subscribed! Ps: I like when it's stuff I haven't seen before :3 Ps2: I liked the editing too.

This is super cool! Keep it up!