Minor correction that I also posted to the Discord, but the height of a dead player (unless crushed) is actually 14. As such, not every small gap is passable by a dead player. In fact, if the height were 0, the Icon of Sin method would probably work, but most death slides would not because 0-height players cannot trigger lines. Furthermore, a zero-height player doesn't even need a gap to go through things and would go through solid walls too, as long as there isn't too high of a height difference. But, with no ability to trigger lines, this is all but useless. :P

@klaesregis7487

3 жыл бұрын

Is the height of a crushed monster (crushed by a door after dying) 0? Because when I was young I had fun with ghost (noclip) monsters that got crushed and resurrected :p.

@4shockblast

3 жыл бұрын

@@klaesregis7487 I think crushed monsters have height zero, not sure if that's the reason that they become ghost monsters on resurrect, though.

@klaesregis7487

3 жыл бұрын

@@4shockblast Ok, well lets see when decino or coincident will solve that mystery!

@Annokh

3 жыл бұрын

I'm generally unfamiliar with Doom terms, so here's my stupid question: why is ability to trigger lines crucial to "route" attacks to the Icon as described?

@4shockblast

3 жыл бұрын

@@Annokh I did mention that this particular method would probably work even with a 0-height player, the line trigger thing is more of an aside. :P

Imagine being the cyber demon and then ending up killing the Icon of Sin, imagine how embarrassed and stupid you must feel.

@Red_was_The_Imposter

3 жыл бұрын

No actually he would feel badass for killing his overlord as it's stronger than him

@EMdemo

3 жыл бұрын

@@Red_was_The_Imposter um..stronger in the sense it can produce more enemies, i guess... But by that logic, A pain elemental is stronger than a Cyberdemon as well? Doesn't a Cyber have a life of, like, 3,000? 🙃🤓 Edit: i just double checked, it's 4,000 hit points lol

@Red_was_The_Imposter

3 жыл бұрын

@@EMdemo I dunno what to say

@deetee2011

3 жыл бұрын

Nobody Truly ah yes because a cyborg demon with a RPG arm is weaker then A wall texture

@pizzahighfive2612

3 жыл бұрын

Bahahahaha this made me laugh 😂

I find it very fitting that the only possible end of the pacifist run consists in Doomguy sacrificing himself.

@MDLuffy1234YT

Жыл бұрын

Until someone figures out how to not die while also killing the IoS.

@doomlava222

Жыл бұрын

Did you not watch the end of the video.... He did it without killing himself.

@CarbonRollerCaco

Жыл бұрын

@@doomlava222 That was the Plutonia IoS. The OG one requires suicide.

@CarbonRollerCaco

Жыл бұрын

And literally burning in Hell.

@micmacha

14 күн бұрын

Coming from TAG, that is the most Doom Slayer possible finale.

Holy hell, That second run being lost to a dmg low roll hurts my soul

@Kitsune_Chara_CG

3 жыл бұрын

i wouldve been so salty that all the water on planet earrh wouldve dispeard

@travalisarcane9112

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kitsune_Chara_CG Hmm Im thinking more our entire local solar system, but that works too

@phealotful

3 жыл бұрын

"..hurts my lost soul" ;)

@CarbonRollerCaco

Жыл бұрын

Blast damage is distance-based, not RNG-based. Both rockets were clearly off by just enough since they blew up in the same spot.

@Allstin

7 ай бұрын

@@CarbonRollerCacowait so the blast, splash damage, depends on the distance of the rocket? not just regular ol’ rng?

Doomguy: *hits wall* Cyberdemon: *offended*

@lilacocto9103

3 жыл бұрын

THAT'S MY FAVORITE WALL, WHY ARE YOU PUNCHING IT?!? *Angry cyberdemon noises*

@Aikisbest

3 жыл бұрын

@@lilacocto9103 To be honest, that kind of sounds like real life nowadays >_x

@Teodoro_Cesar

3 жыл бұрын

By the way, that wall is somehow the Icon of sin

@CanalNoMuyDivertido

3 жыл бұрын

@@lilacocto9103 what

@imcognito9556

2 жыл бұрын

my favorite comment of all time

Thank you SO much for explaining Playmo's strategy... absolutely INSANE. It's a shame such a feat will go unrecognized by general gamers

@expendableround6186

3 жыл бұрын

They’re too busy being fascinated by low-effort plays in tryhardnite.

@tbone9474

3 жыл бұрын

@@expendableround6186 thinking is hard.

@sierrasanders675

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe we could go over General Gamers head and petition President Gaming himself to award Playmo the Medal of Honor?

@BoydTheMilkmanX

2 жыл бұрын

@@expendableround6186 No. The bottom line is most people just play video games for entertainment. They don't give a shit about some guy who spent years practicing Doom.

It's extremely fitting you use cyan since it seems Doom's palette famously doesn't use cyan nor even uses it as a transparent color.

If it's impossible Zero Master has already done it.

The cyberdemon eye-view was particularly interesting, I wasn't aware that sort of change in perspective was possible.

@heimdall1973

3 жыл бұрын

All such things are possible, you just need the right tools. Doom's code has routines that render the view of the area from given point. Player is visible just like NPCs (otherwise multiplayer wouldn't be possible). Then there's the code that determines what's going where, etc. The tool just needs to use all that to follow the demo and position at the cyberdemon for rendering.

Remember that TAS is also "by human hand" in a way. It takes a lot of time and effort to create a good TAS demo. Great vid

It’s honestly really poetic how, in order to finish doom 2 pacifist, you need to sacrifice yourself and die to kill the icon of sin. Basically you’re given the choice: do you give up now and give up your pacifism, rendering the past troubles of your playthrough useless? Or do you do the ultimate and permanent deed of having to die in order to prove your cause. I just thought it was really interesting

The Doom community never ceases to amaze me

If AI ever truly achieves self-awareness and decides to eliminate humans, there won't be a resistance like in the Terminator franchise bravely fighting back against all odds, because all the odds will be calculated and thoroughly manipulated. It'll be humans vs TASbots. Absolutely hopeless.

@acactusnamedjosh708

3 жыл бұрын

Seemed bad until humans found the invincibility exploit

@wazson3178

3 жыл бұрын

WTF

@windflier1684

2 жыл бұрын

tas is still performed by a human, not by ai

@herbderbler1585

2 жыл бұрын

@@windflier1684 forklift is driven by a human. Doesn't mean the human is lifting 7000 pounds.

@Coffeemancer

2 жыл бұрын

no, 4.5billion years to get intelligence and it sucks

yay decino is back with another analysis video!

@depr4vity963

4 жыл бұрын

hold up 🤔

@cookies5817

3 жыл бұрын

Banasis

@samedwards3285

3 жыл бұрын

*_b a s e d_*

@gwg2813

3 жыл бұрын

At least im not pacifisting hitscan hells and just hell

Imagine coming so close to victory only to have your hopes crushed by a random idiot lost soul after *179 ATTEMPTS,* yet still having the willpower to keep going for another *650 TRIES.*

More of this content pls. I can always watch more Decino style doom content.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

There's another one of these videos in the making, but it's a *LOT* of work, so it might take a while.

@cslack813

3 жыл бұрын

coincident well you got a new subscriber with me. It was a great video! Excited for the next one.

@yoya8373

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident so, will you make such more videos again? sorry i'm being annoying with encouraging you to upload stuff, but in my opinion you are one of the best doomtubers around, and tbh? I think that you are even better than some of your inspiring figures.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

@@yoya8373 Thank you so much for the compliment! 😃 There is another cyan video in the works but it has been a LOT of work; even more work than this one. I wanted it to be ready before the end of the year, but I don't know if I'll be able to meet that goal. But anyway: yes there will be more, soon 😎

@yoya8373

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident yay

Ah programming with a gun! That's absolutely fantastic.

Of note is that the reason Pleymo could influence the lost soul's movement was because he was punching. Lost souls forget their targets after completing their charge attack, and will target the player instead if they made a sound. Even though punching with your fist is actually silent, it still technically counts as making a sound, so the lost souls would immediately began to chase Playmo after attacking the cyberdemon.

@lev7509

4 ай бұрын

yep!

Love how, though you can see the muzzle flashes on the Cyberdemon's arm, when the video's slowed down it's clear the rockets are coming out of his crotch XD

Isn't it poetic? Doom Guy literally sacrificing himself to finish pacifist run, brilliant.

Great video, coincident. I had seen the Pleymo video but your explanation gives me more understanding of the details of the strategy involved. It seems terribly harsh when archviles are spawned by an Icon of Sin because it's difficult to find cover, but if they weren't ever spawned we would miss out on the pacifist possibilities entirely.

Holy shit the dedication that goes into these specialisation is absoltely mesmerizing. And to tell about it like it's science is also very impressive 👌. You deserved a subscription my man

Subbed. Excellent video! I love classic Doom content, and having another Decino-style channel to watch is always welcomed. Keep it up!

You have a talent for making interesting and entertaining analysis videos. I hope you make more in the future!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the compliment! There are plans for more to come.

Great video. The ingenuity and infinite patience of Doom gods like Pleynmo and Zero Master never ceases to amaze me. Just subscribed to your excellent channel.

another very interesting video! Thanks! and verrrryyyy nice Pleymo and Zero Master! :o

I've been playing the Icon since 95 on my PC, and I now play it daily since my 4 year old loves the game and level. I've gotten more than one Arch-Vile plenty of times. This is possible folks.

@krystallinekris

3 жыл бұрын

More than one, sure. But how about 30? All on the top floor? Without dying to any other monster that may or may not spawn on the other floors? Then again, I hope you're being sarcastic, because that's hard to tell on the internet, especially with some of the people that roam it.

technically a TAS is also made by human hand, just with access to to tools like frame advance, memory viewers, etc. that's why it's called a "Tool *ASSISTED* Speedrun", as the player is only assisted by the tools, not replaced.

I never noticed until now that there are hooks that are pulling back the flesh over the icons exposed brain.

@iconofthicc6086

3 жыл бұрын

it was uncomfortable

This is awesome. These guys are really dedicated.

Greetings everyone, wait no

@coincident

4 жыл бұрын

Close, but I'm afraid you've got your colors mixed up buddy :)

@EMdemo

3 жыл бұрын

La Mao

@Jagd204

3 жыл бұрын

"Hello, you absolute legends"- no wait, thats not right either...

@IAmAlpharius11

3 жыл бұрын

"wena cabros", wait i'm wrong

Thanks for the great video. Just impressive..

My first video I saw on your channel. I'm glad I discovered this

@coincident

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome! There will be more analysis videos soon, so stay tuned 🙂

A hymn to human persistence=) I wish the real problems of society were solved with the same tenacity. Thank you for the interesting material.

Awesome video!

So you like decino,right Good work this video is awesome!

I just find it fascinating how players can build tool assisted speed runs But damm that strategy for the icon of sin in doom 2 is simply incredible, if anyone does pull it off, I reckon it will be one of the greatest gaming achievements ever 👍

Persistent and dedication.... I think that first of all these words refer to those who were able to complete Okuplok without save/load, spending more than 5 hours on it. Where practically any mistake ruined the whole run.

Love the channel, liked and subbed. I support the whole doom community.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

@fool_uto3545

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident no doubt homie. I'll have my own doom channel one of these days. I can't wait.

the cyberdemon is such a helpful guy :)

Doom speed running community has commitment,focus and sheer fucking will

This is nuts and super interesting

I am sure I will never beat any of these challenges, this is just Nuts(.wad)

I like that you tried to not kill me, Damn you!

amazing video, I love your style. Would you make an analysis video on TAS runs? I would like to better understand how TAS works specifically in Doom

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Yeah, the techniques used to create TAS runs might be an interesting topic.

High quality video thanks

Pleymo playtrough part is like tv animal documentary.

Jeeze... that second attempt with only two units of health left? That must've been crushing to know.

You can't defeat me, the end.

@ThomasNimmesgern

3 жыл бұрын

Even dead people can defeat you.

I still remember seeing this game on a friends computer when I was in college.

As a recreational TASer, I have a quick correction on one of your visuals in this video, a TAS is actually made by a human. The inputs are just manipulated frame by frame, and using many tools, such as save states, rewinds, frame advance, and memory watch (a ram viewer)

@Julian_Pepper

3 жыл бұрын

I just want to help eliminate the myth TASes are created by computers. Very occasionally, very small windows, (maybe 50 frames) are calculated out by a computer for optimal time. All the possible variation in an entire TAS is just so exponentially huge that having a computer solve one that's just around 5 minutes long would take probably decades if not centuries.

Love this game. All these years later

i can appreciate the likely decino-inspired bright flat colored background in the thumbnail

Run was achieved on may 17th 2020: Me: Wow another birthday gift by pure coincidence.

GENIUS!

That 248-damage failed attempt... That had to hurt. That had to be a keyboard-tosser.

TAS: The Archvile Support

Doomguy so brutal that he can beat icon of sin even with own corpse. Bruh :D

@rayvenkman2087

3 жыл бұрын

Too angry to die and too angry to die without taking the demons down with him.

When you have NO OTHER THINGS TO DO...lol

bro you must have a huge patience to take this record :D

"...until there are about 30 archvilles on the top platform" This sentence triggers my fight or flight response

Heh, I see you'll probably use cyan thumbnail for future videos. I think this also involves Lost Souls having the mechanic of hitting something and turn to you in order to manipulating the movement. Also, that 248 damages attempt, I think rocket deals fixed amount of damage according to the distance to the center, so probably it's not random (after thought: maybe it's a random event that the Lost Soul is in a weird angle, so the rocket didn't hit the dead center of the wall.)

@coincident

4 жыл бұрын

Precisely - the randomness has to do with slight angle variations that make the explosion be a bit away from the center and splash damage being reduced due to distance.

@GarrettChan

4 жыл бұрын

@@coincident wait, is this a thing? I actually don't know this before.

@coincident

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. It's what you described in your parenthesis: the randomness comes from the lost soul movement alone. If the lost soul is not completely aligned with the center of the brain, the rocket goes inside with a slight angle variation, and hits a corner of the wall, instead of the center. So there's a greater distance between the center of the explosion and the center of the icon of sin, and the splash damage is lower.

The cyberdeamon was like "Shit! I just killed my boss!!"

Cyberdemons teammates: What a Save!

0:59 Yea there’s a story behind this, you should watch the video, but to summarize it, some of the Id team decided to make Romeros head the boss brain as a joke(without him knowing), he found it while play-testing, and to let them know he found it he recorded the “to win the game you must defeat me, John Romero” line and reversed it and programmed it in, the next day the team found it and immediately reversed it again.

When you said "Doomguy sacrifies himself to save the world" I screamed out loud...

Very clever

This is ingenious.

He defeated An Icon of sin

I did enjoy this video.

The way he said "category" physically hurt me

an insane feat! very well made and edited video one question on that - how’d you get the view from the cyberdemon area of the things happening? it’s not “camera” flying around it seems, as doomguy is there. either 2 player, or most likely a demo?

@coincident

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! Yeah it's from the demo of Pleymo's run. When playing back a demo in dsda-doom, there's a keybind to change the "camera mode", and you can scout around the map and see stuff from any perspective.

I love this guys voice

how come I missed this amazing video of yours! saw something similar about pleymo achievement, but not this one. untill now.. also I just realized you finally got the subs you deserve.. keep the work up!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Hey blob! Thanks for the comment! In case you missed it; there's a second analysis video that I released just last week: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X32N3Jhme9Hch7g.html

@blob1024

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident yea the infamous bug, actually I just kept a demo in my latest playing of doomzero, where a chaingunner ignores pain and survives several bullets and... oh well. guess what I discovered pressing G on map. I always knew about the grid, never knew the use. You never stop to learn new stuff- even tho I dislike all the "new era strats" like glides, etc...

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I understand. Thankfully there's always UV Max 🙂 there might be a few "tricks" but it's not the core of it.

@blob1024

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident that's another reason for which I only record uv max, or uv fast demos. Btw I have a little spare time for a couple days and I'm testing the viddump on my channel... Its simply great, I wish I had used it in past moments 🤦🏻‍♂️

could you imagine the look on the cyber demons face after realising it just killed the icon of sin?

You really, reeeeeeally have plenty of free time... And that's great!

that cyber demon be thicc!

I was expecting a clip. _I was expecting a clip._

It should be mentioned that Romero's head has a very short height that doesn't match its sprite, so that is why it is impossible for any monster projectiles (ones that don't do splash damage) to hit it.

Wait, you did a pacifist run? NANI?!

As a kid, I thought it said "I am Emulix and welcome to the end of the world". It was probably 10 years later before I learned it was reversed audio lol

how does this guy have such low subs? he makes good vids

Yep I'd believe it

Zero Master & Pleymo are GODS of Doom

I'm always surprised people seem not to know this. You can shoot rockets at Romeros head from the uppermost level if without having to stand on the moving pillar.

@coincident

Жыл бұрын

It is widely known that vertical aim can sequence-break many vanilla doom maps.

So like has no one considered using revenants? its just as rng as archies or a cyber in plutonia but: get a revenant on the elevator and bait him into launching non-homing missiles into the hole Thoughts?

This is like the death star photon torpedo scene it's like a 1 in 1000000000000 chance

Ghandi: "Fine, I'll do it myself"

8:30 it sounds like a BBC nature documentary, except for Doom 🙂

Is is possible to use the all ghosts glitch in combo with the nightmare respawn glitch on this map to get the demons to fire at you from out of bounds while you stand next to Romero?

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

That is a clever idea, that has been discussed before in the speedrunning discord. Unfortunately, the answer to the question is: no, it's not possible. Here's why: The All-Ghosts bug destroys the indexing of the blockmap, which means that (almost) all collisions fail: nothing collides with anything else anymore. So even if the demons fire at you, their projectiles cannot hit the Romero Head; they will just fly through it. But there is an exception: blast damage. The arch-viles explosion damage can still damage the Romero Head if you stand close to it. The problem is that you cannot "climb" inside the brain of the Icon of Sin after the bug happens. You can only "climb" on top of things with the IDCLIP cheat-code, which works differently from the All-Ghosts bug.

I find it funny that Plutonia's Icon Of Sin is, in a way, easier to pacifist beat than regular Doom 2's Icon Of Sin.

What is the best way to play DOOM and which version on Windows 10, nowadays. Are there versions with somewhat better graphics, which otherwise works like the original DOOM? Can the original iWADs and pWADs still be used?

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

You do need the original IWADS and PWADS, and for source-port with somewhat better graphics, I would recommend GZDoom; it's the best one for casual play.

@thomashenden71

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident Thank you! ☑️

yo i was just interested about this one, so i checked it out… dude said 0.78% of spawning an archvile??? back then when i played it, it spawned 6 of em almost at the same time? is that a bug or something? told everyone how hard that boss fight is cuz i thought it should be like that lol

Manucubus fireballs can no clip on fast monsters right? Could you use that to have the fireballs to clip through and hit the icon?

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. In theory, any monster projectile can clip through walls in the right conditions, even without fast monsters. In practice, I don't see how you can use that to kill the Icon of Sin. But it's a possibility.

@XPY5

3 жыл бұрын

@@coincident monster projectiles can hit Romero's head, right? I guess it wouldn't work if they can't.

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

@@XPY5 They can.

Him: It is humanly impossible Wadzee: Is it?

Veramente interessante! Great job, complimenti!

@coincident

3 жыл бұрын

Grazie!

On like my 3rd run of the icon of sin I had 4 Archvilles spawn- *in a row*

You can use revenants in the original ending which spawns more often and doomguy can stay in front of the hole without falling

@crystalgoddess4085

2 жыл бұрын

Revenants can't kill The Icon of Sin, they don't deal splash damage with their rockets, hence why the Pacifist tactic in Doom II uses Arch-viles, they're the only enemy that can be summoned that deals splash damage.

Creazy, razy, but U have my respect :)

there is a way, but the problem is, can you keep running and not getting hit? it takes about 3 days to get enough arch viles, but the game is so laggy by that time that getting on the tower is near impossible...much less so without being minced before archies throws you