mean girls the musical: it's like la croix, but with songs!

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

LMFAOOOOO

@PatchworkDuckie

2 жыл бұрын

@@SarahZ oh my god sarah z-vito, i love your work!

@sholem_bond

2 жыл бұрын

No because seltzer/La Croix is good

@CaseyyCupcake

2 жыл бұрын

Hint of characterization

@Boundless-Boredom

2 жыл бұрын

@@sholem_bond the lies. The utter blasphemy of that statement. La croix tastes like dirty tap water mixedwith tv static

i can understand why the musical wanted to be more progressive, but why adapt a movie about the toxicity and misogyny between teen girls, when you're not even gonna let them slutshame each other. that still happens today and it's kinda weird to take that out, since the movie already made a point of how bad that behavior is.

@timothymclean

2 жыл бұрын

Can't have the main characters be too mean I guess.

@poilaaliop

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! It kind of worked in Scream Queens, but that show was surreal as hell and the main focus was the campy horror rather than the social structure at play. Whereas watering Mean Girls down is just lame... I don't think anyone wanted that.

@LaneMaxfield

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. The movie is so successful because it was willing to be honest about what slut shaming and body shaming and internalized misogyny looks like and does to people.

@ruminationstation4200

2 жыл бұрын

I absolutely hate when people interpret "progressive storytelling" to mean none of the characters can have any serious faults and nobody does anything particularly bad and everyone is holding hands and singing songs in the end. When actual progress is a BATTLE. progressive politics are in fact incredibly *confrontational*. It's about getting in society and the establishments face and saying "no this is BS". Its about challenging the audience in how they've perpetuated harm or who they've never given a second thought to before, and a call to action to do better. This isnt progressive storytelling. It's liberal elite storytelling. It's shallow, insincere, totally misses the heart of the movie, and is pretty unabashedly a cash grab. The point wasn't to be progressive. It was to avoid any and all potential scandal to maximize the number of people who would want to buy tickets

@eatatjoes6751

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruminationstation4200 The musical feels like it *is* the establishment rather than fighting it.

"Mean girls except the girls aren't mean" sounds like one of those meme edits where someone uploads a version of the movie with 90% of the scenes removed, so it just cuts between the few innocuous scenes of people talking without any insults or scheming and then rolls the credits...

@liamross340

8 ай бұрын

just a compilation of all the pauses between lines

your theatre director renting an actual golf cart that was only used in two scenes and ended up costing the department most of its budget truly sums up the high school theatre experience

@irongirltoni

2 жыл бұрын

I'm doing legally blonde and we just have the parents stand to the side of the stage. My director also refuses to build the big sorority house set because we only need it for 2 scenes. We are using a rolling ladder instead

@jadeharley7190

2 жыл бұрын

I’m very proud of myself because for my senior project I directed the adjacent middle school musical, we made BANK off that show. Off I was a senior so I never saw that money the next year lol

@liyre4189

2 жыл бұрын

My high school theatre director made her dog, an actual, living, breathing, dog part of our production. Literally no reason, except I, as part of the crew, got to follow the dog around the theatre with a mop and anxiety :)

@samlewis6487

2 жыл бұрын

@@liyre4189 My theatre director did the same thing. Weird.

@samlewis6487

2 жыл бұрын

One time we built a whole ass fake aeroplane that was used for 2 numbers at the end and one of them it wasn't even necessary for

I feel like removing the slut shaming from the show made it weaker, because a large part of the story is how women and girls are pitted against each other so instead of seeking equality, we seek superiority over other girls. Cady's growth as a character is spurred on when she realizes this is what is happening during the scene in the gym, and when she shares her crown. I understand the desire to, I guess, sanitize it, but it shouldn't be at the detriment of the story.

@vlad5042

4 ай бұрын

yeah i always loved the line from tina fey's character where she tells the girls they have to stop calling each other sIuts and wh0res bc it just emboldens guys to do the same

God I LOVE Regina's one line in the bathroom scene "When I woke up in the street, all I could see was my mom's face and Gretchen looking down at me and they looked so surprised...not even sad, just surprised that I could be bleeding. Like they forgot I was a human person. I've been a human person this whole time."

@estheranaiswhitington6749

2 жыл бұрын

that is SUCH A GORGEOUS LINE. I'm amazed, woah

@jeonghansupremacist4354

2 жыл бұрын

i wish they didnt cut it

@abigailkinghorn4707

2 жыл бұрын

The line really shines a bit of light on the concept of... I guess almost reverse-bullying? Like the idea that bullying is only bad if the victim is someone you like or agree with. Regina is a shitty person, but she is still a person. IRL, laughing at her being hit by a bus would be super shitty even if we felt like she morally deserved it because of her actions. When you cross the line of disdain and become vindictive towards the mean girl, you become the mean girl.

@magnificloud

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeonghansupremacist4354 they what?

@Trollestiatumblur

2 жыл бұрын

Because when you’re pretty, you’re dehumanized. When you’re ugly, you’re still dehumanized. I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum, nobody thinks you’re human unless you’re average.

I think a big issue with media or adaptations today is that they forget that a villain is allowed to be "problematic." We should have a reason to dislike the villain.

@Hecateofcrossroads

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah for example there is a joker graphic novel we’re he does something to a woman and the graphic novel was rated r and people got mad about it like he’s the joker he’s supposed to do messed up things

@violetsdior

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hecateofcrossroads which novel was it?

@winko5055

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hecateofcrossroads RIGHT it makes me agitated

@Tplwtch

2 жыл бұрын

@@violetsdior The Killing Joke

@yukikanegawa7470

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tplwtch That's like the most well known comic book. I don't think that's really a good example. It's really loved generally and the problem people had with it had more to do with Batgirl than with Joker. People in general hate Batgirl and Batman as a couple because it's fucked up in most cases and makes Batman seem like a jackass father, a huge creep, and the worst friend ever also it makes Batgirl seem less heroic because it brings up the thought of 'did she become Batgirl because she wanted to impress Batman?' which is a valid thought since she was an impulsive teen. It's also a clear cut example of the women in the refrigerator trope that downplays Batgirl's character. I really don't think what Joker did was the main issue people had with the comic. Besides that though it's still generally a beloved comic book that people use as the defacto portrayal of Joker so I wouldn't say it was disliked much, people just didn't like those two things and they didn't make up much of the comic from what I remember.

It's kind of amazing how Beetlejuice the musical was able to have Lydia sing a song like "Dead Mom" with really clever lyrics and yet make it still sound like a teenager's real voice/manner of speaking. No disrespect to Mean Girls, but it is possible to write teenagers and still write clever lyrics.

@clairespears275

Жыл бұрын

Oop

@clairespears275

Жыл бұрын

😊😊😊

@brianmurray6056

Жыл бұрын

okay but the seal line makes me scream every time 😭

@marabanara

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@dirediredockz

Жыл бұрын

"cease and de-stop" being one of the high school line alternatives makes me feel something i don't know how to describe

I think Janis (and Damian!) were definitely supposed to mirror the Plastics. Damian and Regina both say joining the mathletes is social suicide, Janis insults Mrs. Norbury's outfit behind her back, and Janis and Gretchen BOTH say at some point to Cady: "it'll be our little secret".

@cynosure2

5 ай бұрын

Don’t forget the best part of all time - in the musical, Damian says to Cady that the plastics will ‘make fun of her name’ in his words exactly. This is basically what Janis does as she purposely mispronounces Cady’s name

@sweetlorikeet

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely, Janis and Damian are also manipulating and using Cady all the while going 'oh we're your REAL friends!'. Janis may not be a Plastic but she is absolutely one of the Mean Girls.

@PureLove_X

4 ай бұрын

It's like this in the original movie as well. Janis and Damian are just as bad as the plastics in both versions.

@Jays6926

4 ай бұрын

@@sweetlorikeet I do believe that too. Janis even says “at least me and Regina know we’re mean.”

@FerretDoodle

4 ай бұрын

@@sweetlorikeet Aren't like all the girls (including some boys) supposed to be mean?

as a recovering theatre kid, anyone who says “the lyrics are poorly written because high schoolers are bad at crafting metaphors” was also someone who said “i’m not practicing the choreography because my character is bad at dancing,” and no one likes that guy

@court9311

2 жыл бұрын

Why is being a theater kid something you have to recover from?

@witchingbrew3

2 жыл бұрын

@@court9311 it's a joke. A lot of us millennium theater kids went through hell before musicals became "trendy" over the past 10 years.

@court9311

2 жыл бұрын

@@witchingbrew3 Oh okay. Yeah I loved musicals before they were "trendy" and went to college for musical theatre. But I never got to be much of a "theatre kid" in high school cause the theatre department was awful. So I can't relate.

@coolmacncheese

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I had a character like that for a show but guess what you can still make good choreography from bad dancing, being bad at something in script is not an excuse for laziness.

@ClaudetteVioletta

2 жыл бұрын

It's like people defending Riverdale musicals 'cause "It's a High School Production, they can't sing that good"

can i also say i found it really weird that tina fey removed "fugly sl*t" and changed it to "fugly cow" and removed all the other "mean" stuff BUT changed the digs about janis being gay to the entire ensemble outright calling her a slur in chorus 😭

@erica-ed6zl

2 жыл бұрын

DAMN

@shinyagumon7015

2 жыл бұрын

🎶 *Priorities* 🎶

@jamietheangryoctopus5938

2 жыл бұрын

holy shit

@WormBeetle

2 жыл бұрын

That’s honestly one of the main things that made me mad like you remove everything… BUT THE FUCKING SLU R ?

@iwakeupandboomimarat

2 жыл бұрын

they went from no slutshaming to Let's Have 20 People Say A Slur In Unison

My biggest complaint about the musical (and new movie adaptation) is that it completely absolves Janis. My favorite aspect of the original is that Janis is exactly like Regina. She sees people as commodities and is casually cruel and manipulative. There's an alternate timeline where the roles are reversed. It's only that Regina betrayed Janis first. In the musical, she's the hero. Her tempting and manipulating Cady is hinted in the beginning but is never resolved.

@salem-01

4 ай бұрын

People can rip… well not evil Janis, I mean maybe evil Janis? Whatever, people can rip bad Janis from my cold dead hands.

@xxxmaysilssss690

3 ай бұрын

Exactly! This problem is *especially* bad in the party scene where Janis calls Cady out. Her saying “at least me and Regina George know we’re mean” is her directly acknowledging her behaviour and makes her a direct mirror of Regina. This being switched out with the song someone gets hurts reprise ruins her. All Janis does in that song is call Cady out for being plastic with no substance to her own behaviour. It’s more like a self-pity “oh woe is me” ballad instead of something that’s filled with rage. This is called back when she sings I’d rather be me, since she paints herself even *more* of a victim by saying “yeah, both of my best friends have turned out to be mean :( I can do better than them” is such a misunderstanding of her character. Janis is mean. Why is she having an emotional power ballad after manipulating Cady for a good chunk of the film? Besides, the lack of anger towards Regina in the movie makes her actions even worse, since it seems like she’s messing with Regina for giggles instead of it coming from a place of genuine anger. Smh

@alisondices

2 ай бұрын

@@salem-01dare i suggest...MEAN Janis?

Huh, I always assumed Cady's generic "African" background was because her parents were scientists or whatever they were and they traveled around studying and doing research like the Wild Thornberrys so she never really had a single place to be from. Didn't she have a line in the movie about it? Something about the reason she was so fond of math was because even though language and culture changed when you moved from place to place, math was always constant.

@simplecoffee

2 жыл бұрын

This is correct.

@esther-catherine

Жыл бұрын

yeah that’s right, she said her parents were research zoologists but her mom got offered tenure at a university.

@madalyn7353

Жыл бұрын

she also knew several languages from various african countries so that makes sense

@marieantoinette8675

Жыл бұрын

also I always thought that was kind of the joke in the first place, the joke being the ignorance of the average American teen. The country Cady is from wasn’t specified bc the characters don’t really care to know or aren’t wondering about it. Like it’s playing on the fact that the average white American high school teen has little to no knowledge about Africa or has a bunch of misconceptions, such as thinking that Africa is a country (as some irl Americans do) or that there are no white people in Africa and that it would be racially insensitive to ask someone from Africa why they are the race that they are. Cady being “from Africa” and no one having any questions about it (other than why are you white) is kind of the joke, and if you don’t find it weird that the specific country is never said or aren’t wondering about it, it’s kind of making fun of you too.

@rattyeely

Жыл бұрын

That doesn't make sense though because if they were real biologist and not Hollywood biologists they'd be staying in the general area of whatever animal/plant species they're studying. Africa is not a one-biome place and Cady often compares things to the savannah.

The biggest crime committed by the Heathers musical was cutting the line right after "dead gay son" where J.D. whispers to Veronica, "How do you think he would've reacted to a son who had a limp wrist with a pulse?"

@nameless568

2 жыл бұрын

I’m sorry English isn’t my first language could u explain the quote pls

@skye7019

2 жыл бұрын

a ‘limp wrist’ is a common stereotype or indicator of a gay man. JD is asking “how do you think he would have reacted if he had a gay son that was alive?” rather than dead, aka with a pulse

@CERTAIND00M

2 жыл бұрын

@@nameless568 Lol! I totally see why that would throw off someone who was ESL. Now, I'm curious to know how they translated that line for foreign audiences.

@thedestroyasystem

2 жыл бұрын

@@CERTAIND00M I didn’t even know that phrase, and I’m not only a native English speaker, but a gay one at that lol. Maybe “pansy” would work better, it’s a more well know phrase plus it’s got some nice alliteration.

@maiar2239

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely for me, it has to be J.D. and Veronica's presentation: J.D: Are you a Heather? Veronica: No, I'm a Veronica. Sawyer.

so - what youre saying is....cady deserved her own "how bad can i be?" from the lorax

@MadiganinPeach

2 жыл бұрын

Oh no don't bring the Onceler into this 😭😭😭

@TheAbigailDee

2 жыл бұрын

NO

@grainofrice41

2 жыл бұрын

YES

@poilaaliop

2 жыл бұрын

HER OWN "BIGGERING"

@lukewoods5390

2 жыл бұрын

@@poilaaliop this would slap

as an irish person i gasped when you inserted the screencap from our prime minister quoting mean girls while easing the coronavirus lockdown measures. had totally repressed that moment of horrific cringe

@Wut_191

2 жыл бұрын

Same 💀

@irelandaintreal2945

2 жыл бұрын

oh god no not again, don’t remind me

@tatemitchell1479

2 жыл бұрын

Oh god no, please, no, god-

@discoshark7767

2 жыл бұрын

Time stamp???

@fashionablechangeling1988

Жыл бұрын

@@discoshark7767 4:43

rewatching in Jan 2024 and praying Sarah does a video on the movie based on the musical based on the movie based on the non fiction book

@orangejuice782

4 ай бұрын

same!! honestly i think the musical movie improves on some of the issues of the musical, though it still doesnt outshine the og movie

@WAFilms-gv2en

4 ай бұрын

@@orangejuice782it fucked up the music so hard though 😭😭

@trademarkt

4 ай бұрын

@@WAFilms-gv2enright .. idk if this is just me but they were less upbeat and lost their overall charm

@liv.s.

4 ай бұрын

@@orangejuice782 yeah i think some of the changes were great (janis and damian getting more backstory and screen time

The way they made Karen act like a toddler was really annoying to me 😭 let women be stupid without making them act like a literal child it’s weird asf. It’s the flanderization of cat valentine all over again

@toxicsugarart2103

2 жыл бұрын

YES YES YES

@somerandomgoblin2583

2 жыл бұрын

YEAH!!! Like,, this girl is supposed to be seventeen-eighteen, isn't she? Why is she simultaneously the most sexualized character while also being the most infantilized? It's so creepy

@lainiwakura1776

2 жыл бұрын

It's called a comedy, that usually involves exaggerating character traits.

@inactivechannel6365

2 жыл бұрын

@@lainiwakura1776 Then it's a miracle how the subtler and more realistic characterization is funnier and more enjoyable to watch than the musical's version. Truly an anomaly.

@bimbozos

2 жыл бұрын

the blatant infantilization of the most sexualized character in the movie… barf.

Karen talking about being on a CP website and then tap dancing away is actually bonkers

@neorose6814

2 жыл бұрын

if the musical had been even slightly more of a black comedy this MIGHT have worked but it's insane

@russianvalkyrie2358

2 жыл бұрын

Its funny

@BiratesoftheCaribbean

2 жыл бұрын

@@russianvalkyrie2358 no, it's stupid

@emiate

2 жыл бұрын

the musical has a lot of lines like that, “She’s leaving! Just like my dad!” is in the same song , and while not as bad, definitely fits

@asmrtpop2676

2 жыл бұрын

@@emiate Doesn’t really fit. Just feels cringe

“imagine a party with dresses and cake and singing and dancing and cake” literally a dont hug me i’m scared line

@trinitygriffin5593

5 ай бұрын

DHMIS MENTIONED 🗣️❗️❗️❗️❗️🗣️🗣️🗣️❗️❗️❗️❗️WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE IDEA❗️❗️MINE IS BEING CREATIVE

@catmerchant8699

3 ай бұрын

@@trinitygriffin5593cringe stop

The thing that ruined Mean Girls is the fact that it has become too self aware. It KNOWS it’s iconic. It tries too hard to push its own cultural impact when it doesn’t need to.

The Lebanse thing is actually genious when you think about HOW CRUEL TEENS ACTUALLY ARE. It's deadass the most realistic shit in high school. Someone using Lebanese, and making fun of Lesbians. it's easy humour for bullying.

@DeathnoteBB

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I deeply want Janis to be a lesbian and also I love that. Like especially cause they were still in middle school when their friendship destruction happened, so I can see it being genuine confusion but also intentional bullying.

@manband20

2 жыл бұрын

Real talk, I went to middle school/high school with a girl who was from Lebanon and emigrated to the states as a kid and I swear those jokes were thrown around when we were 13 in 2009/10 because lol gay joke in the mid-2000s

@averyparkway679

2 жыл бұрын

yes exactly, and it's just so easy for something like that to be misconstrued (especially in elementary/middle school when they were friends) and the whole "she's supposed to be lesbian" headcanon criticism really doesn't get the point of the entire movie, to not judge a book by its cover (THIS IS LITERALLY THE MOVIE WITH THE BURN BOOK IN IT). it only serves the themes for the girl you as a viewer (and the entire school as an extension) assume to be a lesbian for the whole movie actually being straight. it's not "queer baiting," people just want their headcanons to be true, and justify it with moral grandstanding when it isn't.

@SS-xr7jf

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. If teens want to bully you, they won’t necessarily bother to pick something that’s true. They’ll just find something that sticks and just use that.

@YourWaywardDestiny

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I understand why people would like for her to be canonically a lesbian, but the movie Janice was never actually presented as a lesbian. It was always about highlighting the fact teens will find anything about you, literally anything, and morph it into ridicule. The fact that Lebanese sounds like lesbian may be ham-fisted, but degrading people is not always clever, if you can stab two points in a person's identity at once, that's enough.

I love how we’ve moved on from “Tumblr Historian Sarah” content, at least for a while, and on to “Former Theater Kid Sarah” content.

@heartlknj

2 жыл бұрын

Lets be real you never stop being a theatre kid

@demonslayermk235

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.

@whatever3440

2 жыл бұрын

@@demonslayermk235 this lmao people who are one tend to be the other too

@ALu-nq8rf

2 жыл бұрын

Those are typically the same people

@jakedominguez118

2 жыл бұрын

the high dynasty period of sarah z history

when Sarah Z covers the movie version we will arrive full circle

something I noticed immediately was that costume-wise the musical lost what made the movie’s style so on-brand and smart. I suggest watching ModernGurl’s video on her style analysis but it’s so clear they just stuck them in pink and what they thought was trendy which is such an injustice to the careful craftsmanship of the movie :(

@All-ze9cl

6 ай бұрын

I cringe everytime I think about the musicals costumes. Karen looked like a ten year old, Reginas were just so over the top, Gretchen dressed like a 40 year old and Cadys actually weren't horrible. They clearly had no idea what teens wore

@zachw566

6 ай бұрын

@@All-ze9clyou have to think about the unique needs of musical costumes. You have 1-2 minutes to get into them, maybe a bit more for some costume changes and they need to be able to be danced in. They also need to convey their message of what exactly they are about for people much farther away.

@All-ze9cl

6 ай бұрын

@@zachw566 that is true, theater is different from movies, but I feel like Karen’s did not need the stupid rainbow necklace or little kiddie colors, it just felt unnecessary. But I see what you mean

My main problem with the musical is that *no one* is as good at being a mean girl as Rachel mcadams. She’s not over the top or cartoony but she exudes power and it’s an incredible performance. I think it’s because she could be a real teenager at any high school. The Regina George’s I’ve seen from the musical feel like they come from Disney channel original movies where all queen bees are cartoon level villains

@heatherlee2967

2 жыл бұрын

Rachel McAdams is queen 👑

@dommitchell4319

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like you're almost at the mark but just missed it. It's not that no one is as good as Rachel McAdams at playing a Mean Girl, it's that no one can play *Regina* like Rachel, and the musical is obsessed with trying to be the exact same as the movie, so new actresses just have to do the same as Rachel instead of attempting to put a new spin on the character. This issue spreads throughout the entirety of the show, with them repeating the exact same one liners that don't land the same way that they do on stage, instead just feeling like "HEY GUYS REMEMBER THE MOVIE? LAUGH NOW" (see the "she doesn't even go here" moment) I haven't finished the video, so maybe Sarah addressed this.

@NEWYORKER131

2 жыл бұрын

exactly. regina isn’t a character meant to be over the top in a way that a theatre performer is demanded to be.

@ruminationstation4200

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, Im not sure McAdams would have been able to do much better with Regina on stage. So much of what made the character iconic and believable were down to really subtle cues like a tensed mouth, etc. I don't know how you can convey to the audience that a smile is fake, or that Regina has just coldly eyed you up and down when you can't just zoom in on her face as she does it.

@youtubewontletmetypeagoodu8128

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruminationstation4200 yeah she’s such a subtle character

as a stereotypical girly girl, “i expect to run the world in shoes i can not walk in” is one of my favorite lines😂💁🏽‍♀️

@StarryOak76

2 жыл бұрын

I thought that was genuinely a clever line about the hypocritical simultaneous expectation of girls having to constantly be performing femininity while also insisting that sexism is over, and also hilarious.

@liamross340

2 жыл бұрын

@@StarryOak76 the line itself isn’t bad it’s just so out of place and random

@SealifeSaviorsAssociation

2 жыл бұрын

me too, but I don’t actually like the mean girls musical anymore now realizing it’s novelty is lost on me.

@roxanne_

2 жыл бұрын

As seeing your comment, your username checks out

@tangally

2 жыл бұрын

I like it better when I change the word “expect” to “intend” in my head. To me, the word “expect” makes it seem like we’re supposed to think she’s stupid for wanting to do that, and should aim lower. “Intend” has more punch.

I saw a lyric video that subbed "lioness, only with *faux* fur" and I thought that was far superior.

The Janice thing I personally always liked, surprisingly. When going to an all girls catholic high school I already knew I was gay but no one suspected. My best friend, who’s straight, was often bullied tho because other girls assumed she was a lesbian. I think it fit the theme of the movie, how kids the truth doesn’t matter in high school, just the other kids perception of what’s true. Idk how to word this but yeah

@Coeurlarme

2 жыл бұрын

I was the one being homophobically bullied, and my bullies did see through me, but I actually liked that Janice wasn't what the rumors said she was. Maybe it just was my own homophobia talking, but it felt like a big fuck you to the people who thought they could tell and used it to harm me. Also I like that her storyline wasn't resolved by magically granting her a gf as though it's like, a common thing for gay teens to find.

@elizrebezilmadommdo1662

2 жыл бұрын

I liked that they turned out to be wrong. I really don't think that Janis is actually gay. Although, as others have said, I do think that it would've been cool if Regina was written to be bi or gay and in the closet. She showed a lot more signs than Janis ever did. I think it good that the message of that side plot is that you can't judge someone's sexuality based on what they wear or what they do (that isn't related to romance of any kind). I think it would've been cooler if while Janis is revealed to actually be straight, there would be a twist where Regina is revealed to be the actual closeted lesbian, who was projecting her insecurities on Janis, so that no one suspects that Regina was the gay one the whole time. It would've showed that you really can't judge someone's sexuality based on how feminine they act, while also giving some more representation to the LGBTQ community.

@thekitkatlizard8661

2 жыл бұрын

Also Janis is I think Lebanese and more tomboyish so people might've just misunderstood her and immediately jumped on the lesbian rumor train

@Jade-fw6ni

2 жыл бұрын

@@elizrebezilmadommdo1662 yeah but it would have fed into the damaging trope in Western media that homophobic bullies are all just insecure gay people, which then allows people to blame homophobia on gay people when in reality the vast majority of the time it really is just straight people who are being homophobic. while it can happen in real life, i think we should retire that trope because it's really not helping anyone. also, the movie kind of reinforce that being gay is something to be ashamed of - whilst i don't think janis needed or should have been shown to be a lesbian, the movie's need to prove that she wasn't actually gay (because that would be 'bad', in 2004) by setting her up with a random guy doesn't work as a great message either. that's just my opinion, though!

@asmrtpop2676

2 жыл бұрын

@@Coeurlarme as a bi i just assumed janis was bi.

the way mean girls the movie taught a feminist sort of lesson was by showing the awful misogynistic way some girls treated others, and showing that, if you crave to be like them, you're gonna lose both yourself and the people who genuine like you by taking away regina's open misogyny, you take away the core concept of the thing you're trying to adapt

@emhu2594

5 ай бұрын

Being a girl boss is still about cutthroat competition with everyone else and treating other women like they are beneath you. Late stage capitalism at work in pop culture. This is not real feminism because feminism is about equality, not about raising up a few women to oppress all the others.

@stonersiren

5 ай бұрын

i thought the point of the movie was that by the end, everyone except for damien had become a mean girl. the underlying misogyny was just a part of it. plus all the y2k vibes.

@JohnnyPaisan

4 ай бұрын

Did they really take away girls shaming each other? That was something captured in the original movie that was so real and relatable.

@vlad5042

4 ай бұрын

@@stonersirendamian was a mean girl too, in the way karen or gretchen were. he didnt take a lot of direct action himself but he helped with and was entertained by janis and cady's bullying behavior towards regina. (and gretchen, dont forget "none for gretchen wieners bye" lol)

@stonersiren

3 ай бұрын

@@vlad5042 that's the thing about characters like damien tho, they are not mean girls, they are intelligent enough to see through it all and are just entertained by it, like you said

If you're going to make a musical called Mean Girls adapted from a film called Mean Girls that was full of mean girls, and you decide that actually you don't like it when the girls are mean, it begs the question of why. It just feels unreal and overpolished, in the end, like a bullying PSA or a Lifetime film - both of which expressly exist to reassure adults about teens, not to actually be relevant to them. Nobody would have watched the film if it was just Not Particularly Kind Girls.

@UnreasonableOpinions

2 жыл бұрын

Now that you've mentioned the songs and performances seem to have been toned down for the purpose of being good school musical fodder, it makes even more sense the edge has been filed off. People who are old enough to select school musicals will probably recognise this as The Film My Kids Talked About, will have a script stripped of any edge of substance that gives them no reason to dismiss it, and as typical will simply assume this is relatable to teens because why bother checking.

@tamarbeker1701

Жыл бұрын

God damnit. 999 likes.

Did everyone forget the whole point of Mean Girls?? The film featured mean slut-shaming, not to *endorse* that kind of behavior, but because *it’s a thing teen girls experience & can relate to.* It’s a story about MEAN GIRLS lmao. It’s in the title for christ’s sake

Okay but I gotta say, the horrible lyrics made it so much funnier to me, like they didn't even bother to revise it and just spit every single thought as they came.

@_bebeboudeur_

Жыл бұрын

- my teachers correcting my essays, probably

@misterfartballs

4 ай бұрын

I honestly thought the lyrics were stupid on purpose

@mylesmarkson1686

4 ай бұрын

@@misterfartballs I'm sure Karen's were.

Early 2000s homophobia was weird. Where I grew up, kids would be bullied mercilessly for being "gay" and the one of a couple times anyone actually came out, the bullying stopped immediatelly (at least from that angle). Like, being actually Gay was fine but Being "gay" was a social death sentence?

@ghost_fueled_scarecrow

2 жыл бұрын

What you're describing isn't homophobic, it's just an insult kids use

@GeeBarone

2 жыл бұрын

@@ghost_fueled_scarecrow It's the use of an accusation of a gay identity as a weapon. To me, that's pretty clearly homophobia.

@ghost_fueled_scarecrow

2 жыл бұрын

@@GeeBarone Well it's used that way cuz most of the time the other person is straight

@richardbourton4523

2 жыл бұрын

It’s an interesting slang phenomenon. “That’s so gay!” was a common expression of disappointment in my school years, with a meaning akin to ‘that sucks!’ or ‘that’s so annoying.’ It was basically universally used but divorced from people being gay, to the point where openly gay students used the phrase too. Although it is of course quite homophobic, it didn’t feel like homophobia, just generic slang, like how ‘bear’ meant ‘very/a lot/many’ and was nothing to do with a bear as in the animal. I think ‘that’s so gay’ has mostly died out now though as phrase, which is good of course, as kids have become more aware of such things. As an example of just how divorced slang can be from its direct denoted meaning, I witnessed something very weird happen in my year once. The popular kids of the year were in a particular set/group for science and had a lesson on states of matter. This resulted somehow in ‘solids’, ‘liquids’ and ‘gases’ becoming a ranking system of insults for a week afterwards. Being a solid was fine and average, but I overheard on several occasions stuff like ‘can you tell Georgia she’s a f***ing liquid’ or ‘she is such a gas’. Totally blew my mind how quickly this happened and then it disappeared and everyone forgot about it. Perhaps in that class the coolest kids were solids and the group had extrapolated the ranks from there? But in this example, the actual slang used was meaningless. They weren’t interested in changes of states of matter, only the words required to be pejorative. It’s a lot like the ‘that’s so gay’ example, which is something so damaging, rude, homophobic and hurtful to say, but it was actually basically only meant neutrally and weirdly wasn’t at all related to sexuality and everyone seemed to understand this. Sorry long comment, but I honestly find the development of slang quite interesting.

@weirdofromhalo

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardbourton4523 I still don't buy the argument that kids in the 70s and 80s used gay exclusively as a pejorative against homosexual individuals. I find it much more reasonable that most teens who used gay in the negative sense did so sarcastically. We have to remember that gay used to mean happy, joyous, or enjoyable. I can easily imagine a kid sarcastically saying, "Oh, that party was a gay time," and then rolling their eyes. It definitely picks up homophobic intent later, but being used as a synonym for lame is pretty explainable without resorting to latent homophobia in a society that barely called homosexuals "gay people."

i feel like oftentimes ppl try to make media more "progressive" and just end up with "no one can do anything bad ever even the villains" which doesn't really work. let your villains be evil and do bad things. they're villains. that's what they're supposed to do.

@jaschabull2365

2 жыл бұрын

It can come off a tad as if we've looped back around to bowdlerizing, can't it?

@miam2772

2 жыл бұрын

YES, I also feel like the push for diversity (which IS good) in shows like heathers and mean girls leads to the beta mean girls (never the alpha mean girl like Heather C or Regina) being women of color, which is kind of a weird thing bc the point is that the mean girls are usually rich, skinny, blinde white girls.

@finch4309

2 жыл бұрын

Mia M yeah ive noticed that too. i feel like thats one of a plethora of reasons why the heathers tv show fell flat. the people irl who would be the mean girls are still thin, conventionally attractive, and most likely white and cishet. having the heathers be a fat woman, a genderqueer character, and a black woman is something that wouldnt happen in a high school right now, or at least from what ive observed being in the US.

@juliastradaart7725

2 жыл бұрын

I really agree, it's an odd form of pandering when people think that the way to make a "progressive" show is to show no one causing any harm. Many people are bad, teen girls do say highly offensive things, you can show that without glamourizing it and allow your audience to use critical thinking.

@padmeamidala5521

2 жыл бұрын

Also not even villains but like...if you create characters who are not totally perfect or morally correct, it gives them room to grow. Also makes for way more interesting story and characters in general. Why would you create characters who just...don't do anything really? What's the point of writing a story without any sort of conflict?

Just watched this with my girlfriend (who was in the Broadway ensemble for the entire run). We laughed SO HARD when you kept noting how the bootlegs keep zooming in on that one ensemble member (she’s INCREDIBLY popular with the fans and we’ve noticed before how much the bootlegs focus on her)

@liyre4189

2 жыл бұрын

who is she?? why is she so popular?

@williammclean5897

2 жыл бұрын

Out of curiosity what did your gf think of the video?

@annelewiis

Жыл бұрын

@@liyre4189 she is probably becca petersen, an understudy from the original broadway production, the mean girls fandom always loved the understudies and people from the ensemble i already heard that some people took a last time flight just to catch her performing on the tour! musical theatre fandom is very dedicated when they want

@stickmanapproved

Жыл бұрын

where did you watch the musical ?

@stickmanapproved

Жыл бұрын

@@amemelia i find a mean girls but it's not the cast that i want

Cady grew up in Kenya in the movie too, but it's *really* subtle. Her mom mentions Mombasa, one of the bigger cities in Kenya.

@HerHollyness

Жыл бұрын

Does she? I’ve seen that movie a million times and I don’t remember the mum mentioning anything about Mombasa. She says they’re going to see Ladysmith Black Mambazo, perhaps you’re thinking of that? They’re a South African group, so that combined with the fertility vase of the Ndebele tribe made me think they had been living in South Africa.

@22joshbb

6 ай бұрын

​@@HerHollyness a year late but there's a scene when she approaches black students and says "jambo!" which is a greeting in swahili, spoken in Kenya

@SapphicAshley

4 ай бұрын

@@22joshbb Ohhhh this explains so much. Every time I've seen the movie I thought she was misrecongizing the person she was talking to.

Re: Janis' sexuality in the movie. What I always took away from her origin story with Regina, was that Janis expected her best friend to actually respect her time and attention (ie not ditching her for a boy, calling her back when she said she would) and that Regina was so self-centered and shallow and so unwilling to accept any blame or responsibility, that she categorized Janis' quite rational emotional responses as Janis being "obsessed/in love with her." Janis being called a lesbian throughout the movie wasn't because she actually was (it didn't seem to matter to anyone what the truth was), but because of the staying power of Regina's rumors. Also in 2004, high school kids loved to use "gay" as an insult. Made it particularly difficult for my bullies when I came out and made it clear they weren't insulting me by saying that, but just stating a fact. Did Janis need to be paired up with a boy in the end? No. But I'd argue Janis didn't need to be paired up with anyone, really.

@samkathryn4825

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, just let Janice be Ace. It would actually have been pretty cool to make her canonically Ace, because the joke would’ve worked even better. All this time Regina thought Janice was a lesbian and romantically interested in her (with Caty later making a similar accusation) when Janice wasn’t romantically interested in anyone. Her reactions to questions about her sexuality and the angry refusal of being gay actually really reminded me of my own experiences. The defensiveness and frustration when people refuse to accept you don’t want to date anyone, and the annoyance at having labels pushed. Might just be wishful thinking, though. Edit: I know the difference between aromantic and asexual. I am pretty certain I’m both, so sometimes I refer to them together based on my own experience. I apologize for the confusion.

@LaurellaNeed

2 жыл бұрын

When the movie came out, accusing girls you didn't like of being lesbians was very much a thing. The movie was based on real high school hierarchies, and straight girls being called lesbians just because they weren't popular was extremely common.

@LaurellaNeed

2 жыл бұрын

@@samkathryn4825 The concept of asexuality wasn't really common in 2004. The overwhelming majority of teens at the time would nave have even heard of asexuality in the context of sexual orientation.

@yonicorn1641

2 жыл бұрын

and when regina is telling the story of how she had her first boyfriend and janis was "jealous", they;re in 8th grade, it's literally the most typical shit to have younger teenage girls who are close friends be broken off because of a boy and attention.

@thefirstface4575

2 жыл бұрын

That last part gave me a flashback to a bully at school shouting muff diver at me across a crowded hallway and I was just like “yeah? Aren’t you?” He said “fair point we’re sound, nobody bully her again” 💀 they’ve got no comeback to yes I am indeed a gay.

So, I was listening to mean girls the musical, and I thought it was alright. But! What immediately turned me off was the way that they make teens talk. It basically sounds like a parody of what middle aged people think teens say. The one that really stood out to me was when Kady was trying to make friends and she goes up to this one girl who says “un subscribed” as an insult Who? Whom? Whomst? Find me literally one person who has said that not trying to either make fun of teens or what people thought teens are like. Yeah, that’s just something that bothered me, it’s not that big of a deal though, but writing this made me feel better.

@WhitneyDahlin

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree. The musical doesn't feel like mean girls at all but the biggest problem with this musical in my opinion is how they totally got rid of the themes and moral of the movie by making it PC instead. The whole point of mean girls was showing how mean girls can be to each other. So by taking out some of the meanest lines about s*** shaming you are really down playing how it's girls who sl** shame each other the most and are the most cruel to one another. Even if you were trying to go from a "feminist" angle in this you are doing a disservice to feminism by completely ignoring the fact, that was in the original movie, which was how the "patriarchy" doesn't need to be propped up by men anymore it's women upholding the "patriarchy". They made mean girls far too PC which is a major f****** problem and major mistake because why are girls who are cruel to one another going to be PC????!!!! They might as well call this musical the PC girls then. Mean girls is beloved by so many people of all genders races and orientations and by changing anything from the script to make it less mean and less offensive you are throwing the whole point of mean girls and the whole moral of the movie out the f****** window. This musical truly was a disaster

@pykenotpike

2 жыл бұрын

I kinda felt this way about the original movie. Like, especially at the age I was when I watched it. I hadn’t heard any teenager or young person sound like that. Maybe it’s because the movie is very American, but I just did not relate to the “teenager” aspect of the movie.

@stress395

2 жыл бұрын

@@pykenotpike it wasn’t as obvious with the original movie because it was a completely satirical film in all regards, but the musical didn’t play up the absurd nature of the movie and so it felt tone death.

get you a guy who looks at you like the bootlegger looks at that one specific chorus member

Fun fact: I'm not terribly familiar with the show or the movie, but my friend sent me "Stupid With Love" and I learned it & added it to my audition book, _fully unaware that Cady's the protagonist of the show._ By the sound & lyrics of the song alone, I thought she was the cute/quirky sidekick character, pretty much right up until I watched this video, and I think that really speaks to your point about her personality & character arc suffering in the transition from screen to stage.

It feels like a parody of the Teen Broadway Musical. Also Mean Girls does NOT work as a modern take. High school doesn't operate like it did in 2004. This should have been a period piece like Heathers the musical was of the 80s.

@dichotomae

2 жыл бұрын

Hearing something set in 2004 called a period piece aged me 60 years

@carolinemcgovern4488

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes! the modern-day setting kills Means girls, and they should have kept the YK2 like Heathers for 80s.

@Abril766tf

2 жыл бұрын

i agree. also cool profile pic

@JoTheCreativeOne

2 жыл бұрын

Love your THTYG Icon!!

@andrew23456able

2 жыл бұрын

tbh feels like the social media bits are an explicit DeH reaction

i think the issue is that they yassified Regina a little much. she didn't have that fake-nice attitude and was way more seductive and over flanderized. world burn is a fantastic song, but it doesn't capture how weak she is deep inside, she just kinda #girlbossed her way into making everyone mad rather than throwing a fit and acting impulsively.

@manband20

Жыл бұрын

Over a year late so idk if you or anyone else will see it, but I have something to add to this. Mean Girls is basically just a PG version of the movie Heathers, which coincidentally was written by the brother of the guy who directed Mean Girls. The character of Regina George is more or less inspired directly by Heather Chandler, the original "mean girl" in high school movies. She ruled Westerburg with an iron fist and could make or break people on a whim. But during the scene where she takes Veronica to the college party, she gets coerced into giving a guy a blowjob. We cut away when it starts and when we cut back, she's washing her mouth out in the bathroom. And the camera lingers on her face in the mirror. She looks so disgusted with herself and so broken and sad, but she spits the water out in a fit of rage and forces herself to suck it up because THIS is how she will fit in once she isn't the queen of high school anymore. It is arguably my favorite shot of the entire movie and says so much without saying anything in the span of ~10 seconds. Regina George is such a flawed person with a really sad life who projects this image of being perfect in every way while simultaneously masking her insecurities through the blonde-haired blue-eyes image that people project onto her. She's a lot more subtle and backstabby than Heather Chandler, who could get away with openly harassing people because she kept a semblance of order in the school, but she also isn't afraid to flex her muscles every now and then just to remind people she's in charge. What I'm trying to say is they really did a bad job of portraying the subtle aspect of the character and we don't get moments like her fake-smiles or Heather Chandler spitting water at the mirror and it really hurts the finished product.

@lucyandecember2843

11 ай бұрын

@@melonyrobinson9944 o.o

@All-ze9cl

7 ай бұрын

Fr in the movie she screams and throws a fit like a teenager but in the musical she’s not like that

@seandalo

5 ай бұрын

@@All-ze9clshe does do that in the musical

@hazyhope._.

4 ай бұрын

@@All-ze9clShe does actually scream and yell when she realises she was lied to about the Kalteen bar (her mom called out why she's trying to eat kalteen bars when she's trying to lose weight.) This scene takes place before Cady's party, and world burns starts IMMEDIATELY after Janis and Cady's altercation. it shows Regina had a few GOOD hours of crying and grieving before finally taking revenge.

I watched an interview where Tina Fey jokingly admitted she was only interested in doing a musical bc of all the money she could milk from school field trips and that told me all I needed to know

I honestly don’t know how I never realized just how out of character and bizarre I’d Rather Be Me is. I mean, scream singing the song in my car while recovering from a toxic friendship was super cathartic to me but still. Damn.

@caitlingill

Жыл бұрын

Cady could have sung it instead of Janis

@annalunelli13

6 ай бұрын

@@caitlingill I fully believed it was Cady's song the first time I heard it on a playlist, in fact I stil sometimes confuse the casting because in my brain that's Cady's song. But also I can't accept that that's not like, an ironic song, because it's so contrarian to Janis

wait why'd they take janis from goth art kid down to mildly alt art kid? the disrespect

@hannahbun

2 жыл бұрын

actually that doesn't bother me half as much as them not properly showing cady's changing character that's literally the core of the show

@Isaaxz123

2 жыл бұрын

Do goths even exist anymore? I feel like that was only a thing when I was a kid. Art/band kids are definitely still a thing, I had a bunch dog pile me when I bitched about Lin manual Miranda's corny ass.

@Lavenderismyfavourite

2 жыл бұрын

@@Isaaxz123 goth kids still exist but its mostly tik tok alts now a days..

@asmrtpop2676

2 жыл бұрын

Because it’s set in the new thousands.

@johannaelloso9418

Жыл бұрын

@@Isaaxz123 i mean i listen to old school goth like the cure, joy division, and depeche mode. But mainly nowadays kids are just watered down "alt" kids who think theyre edgy

I'm a lesbian and honestly was ok with Janis' storyline: kids at that time would take literally any excuse to call someone gay and then make fun of them for it, and would definitely be dumb enough to confuse Lebanese with lesbian

@theclairewhy

7 ай бұрын

I would agree if only she wasn't so directly named after a queer icon. But you're right that it happens in real life all the time, and probably more to guys. I think if Janis were a guy getting called gay all the time then no one would assume he actually was gay - just that high schoolers are dumb and homophobic.

@Violetxp

7 ай бұрын

i agree, i like that shes a lesbian in the musical a lot but im also more than fine with her ending up with a guy at the end of the movie, imo its one of the movies ways of conveying that people spread a ton of rumours in high school and its very possible for them to just be completely untrue. i think its more unexpected than random if that makes sense, because of how many scenes were talking about janis being a lesbian youd think that she is and then she actually isnt. all the things you hear about janis being a lesbian (besides the 'big lesbian crush on you' bit which was also prompted by someone else (regina)) are from other people and are never from janis herself. idk if that made any sense but thats kind of representative of rumours imo because the audience at this point is probably very sure that shes a lesbian just because the other students are saying so and then her not being a lesbian at the end is more of a 'dont believe everything you hear' instead of 'that was uncalled for and against the plot'

I always read Regina as the actual lesbian deeply in the closet and abusive towards other girls as part of a really screwed up denial mechanism. I dunno if I'm crazy for thinking that, but I wasn't head-canoning, it just popped into my head as an obvious interpretation, and each time I've seen the film it's just the lens through which I see her actions.

@thekitkatlizard8661

2 жыл бұрын

Yesss, to me her spreading lesbian rumors about the Lebanese girl who's straight but not super gender conforming reads as mad projecting if anything

@coffeeaddictkittyy.b4158

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed!!! Thought the same since the movie first came out!

@lubis_cornue1470

Жыл бұрын

I personally see her more as Aromantic, but a lesbian Regina would be too powerful for this earth...

@afoolishfopdoodle3284

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I don't know if I could take a being so powerful

@Darling_Decay

Жыл бұрын

Same!! I always just headcanon her as such because she gives off so much of those vibes

Another thing that got really watered down was the costuming - the wardrobe choices in the movie are masterful, and show each character's personality and character arc really clearly. The costumes in the musical are... clothes.

@elizrebezilmadommdo1662

4 ай бұрын

I genuinely hate the costume design for the musical. The Plastics from the original movie dressed in clothes that you would see actual teenagers wear and also tell a lot about each character, and the outfits in the musical seem goofy, with every inch of their clothes being completely pink, and Gretchen's main outfit in the play version looks horrible imo, while the Gretchen from the movie was probably the best dressed (which makes sense, because her family is extremely rich, more than Regina). It's like for the musical, they thought, "Let's just have them all wear all pink, because, you know, it's Mean Girls? On Wednesday, we wear pink? And they will have nothing to do with the characters' personalities or backgrounds."

@-charcoal

3 ай бұрын

right like the movie’s costuming was meticulously crafted and the show’s costuming felt like just that: costumes

You briefly touched on Janis not being goth, but another thing I disliked about the musical was the production side of things. As someone who is studying theatre design, the costume design for a lot of characters was not it AT ALL. For supposedly being an updated musical, the costumes felt absolutely dated. It was more tacky than real, if anything. The screen type set also irked me to no end for how lazy it was. I get that they wanted to incorporate social media, but like the lyrics, it was clearly done in a way that was more reminiscent of a 40 year olds perspective than of a teenager. It had absolutely no bite or relevance other than saving money.

@miaallen6119

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I’ve never seen it but just looking at the clips in this video, I was disappointed in the costuming for sure.

@orbitalpudding3420

2 жыл бұрын

interestingly enough, the tour recently updated a lot of the costumes to keep up with modern trends. im not sure if broadway also did this, but i think its an interesting way to handle things. the broadway version came out a few years ago when most of the clothing was considered passable if not completely on trend, though now its entirely outdated

@IsaacIsaacIsaacson

2 жыл бұрын

Some of those wigs are terrible! And I agree, even the boys costumes feel dated (and male clothing trends change so much slower).

@toxicsugarart2103

2 жыл бұрын

Same! Especially the pics of the accidentally exposed ass with that specific early 2010s text meme format, like teenagers haven’t done that shit in a decade.

@mochimellow4188

2 жыл бұрын

Mean Girls is one of the most iconic references of y2k fashion and a big part of the resurgence now. So the costuming is wildly disappointing and ugly and most of it isn't flattering on the actors.

It was funny to me realizing that a big problem of Dear Evan Hansen is that one paper Evan is a villain because he is doing such awful things, but the show doesn't really treat him like the villain his actions make him. Meanwhile the mean girls musical says that the plastics and Caty are villains, but doesn't really back it up with their actions.

@haileygiabiconi8830

2 жыл бұрын

It's CADY!

Can we talk about the fact that the musical opens with Janis and Damian singing “This is a cautionary tale”? Now there are certainly some dicey moments in the story but everything ends pretty happily for all parties involved. I don’t think a story with a happy ending can really be called a cautionary tale.

The funny thing about Mean Girls (The Musical) comes from the fact that a lot of the complaints about what it does wrong is what Heathers (The Musical) did right when it got adapted. It's almost as if Mean Girls tried so hard to *not* be Heathers that they shot themselves in the foot over what should have been basic storytelling/writing/music score techniques and best practices.

Love a quick, simple, short-form, 1 hour Sarah Z video. Always what I need.

@Ryder8u

2 жыл бұрын

At this point it might as well be a youtube short 😆😁

@DrewryPope

2 жыл бұрын

I love 1 hour is her short form

@jayalba1478

2 жыл бұрын

This gives me, Hermione slamming down a gigantic library book and saying "I checked this out weeks ago for a bit of light reading," energy

@thefirstface4575

2 жыл бұрын

LIGHT READING?

@elongatedwombat

2 жыл бұрын

+

fun fact - the book it was based on was based on my school! the author was a teacher there. our student ambassadors even have a set response in case touring students ask about it

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

Oh holy shit that's wild

@taylor-

2 жыл бұрын

Out of curiosity, what is the response the student ambassadors have?

@emiehoney5041

2 жыл бұрын

Did you know anyone that went there the time the book was written?

@IHARumor

2 жыл бұрын

Could you tell us what the set response is? I’m curious haha!

@alexander8257

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao I think it was partially based on my school too and they do the exact same thing

There was actually a clique of girls at my elementary/middle school who emulated The Plastics intentionally and even called themselves The Barbie Squad and made a burn book. The movie came out when we were late elementary age, and I guess these girls kind of missed the message. It was kinda funny, and they mostly just hung out together and wore pink, but they were also a pretty mean sometimes.

@_bebeboudeur_

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure some girls at my school thought they were serena and blair from gossip girl (except serena is not supposed to be that mean and blair also has limits to her cruelty)

@kaitlyn__L

9 ай бұрын

It’s just like when boring white guys deliberately dressed and acted like Don Draper. I love when people miss the message in media, it’s always so funny to watch

@briarts

3 ай бұрын

This movie came out when I was in 8th grade and in 9th grade, I was part of a clique who emulated The Plastics. Our "Regina" was more passive aggressive and controlling though rather than outright cruel. She had her limits and also our school was strict on the no-bullying policy. The other difference was that we had a Damien in the group (flamboyant gay guy).

need a part 2 roasting the movie musical cause it was somehow so much worse than the stage musical

@kellijelli

4 ай бұрын

fr like also they cut sm songs, I HATE MOST OF THEM but where do you belong and meet the plastics😔 rip

@WickedKatze

4 ай бұрын

Really? I just saw it and I liked it a lot, although the only frame of reference I have for the stage show was this video.

@rachelgore6455

4 ай бұрын

oh my god i hated it

@cassandral.5840

4 ай бұрын

Was looking for this comment. Because 100% yes!

@josf9616

4 ай бұрын

Noooo I really enjoyed it! It was a lot of fun and there were some great performances! (Primarily Karen, Damian, and Janis)

I don’t think the lyric in “Sexy” is a dig at modern feminism. It’s a dig at the idea that sexualizing yourself is enough to be considered modern feminism.

@maidarlindear

2 жыл бұрын

Right? I felt like in a way you could potentially read it as Karen seeing herself as only valuable when she's attractive; and that the "I can be who I want to be... AND SEXY" is like a desire of wanting to say "yeah, I could be someone smart and filled with substance without erasing my sex appeal" If anything it's one of the few lines that are like this that kinda fit. Dunno tho, maybe I'm reading too much into it! That's just what I got from all the Karen sections in the musical.

@iniuppa

2 жыл бұрын

Maite That works too! I actually think the musical reveals Karen to be the most insightful. She’s simple, but she’s not stupid.

@rosemary8136

2 жыл бұрын

I interpreted it the same way! I remember I wondered if my reading was way off when the popular KZread comments I saw seemed to see an entirely different point and were praising it for sexual liberation.

@cutiepuppy4427

2 жыл бұрын

Like "Put Yourself First" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

@susanjoyce4244

2 жыл бұрын

@@cutiepuppy4427 THANK YOU FOR THE CXG REFERENCE

I feel like if they played into internalized misogyny and feminism, they could have kept and expanded on the slut-shaming, body-shaming, and overall bitchiness. I think it would have worked better.

@ani-babe6444

2 жыл бұрын

YEs! especially considering that the musical adaptation is supposed to be set in the modern day too!

@carysbebard3690

10 ай бұрын

Something like, cruelly sarcastic 'are you okay? I mean, [a bunch of body criticisms]. You should get plastic surgery. You know, as self care."

On a side note, I really hate the trend of using screens as the entire background in these modern adaptations. For a school trip we saw Anastasia, which had a similar thing and they’re backgrounds were so boring it really distracted me from the show (such a shame because the costume design was GORGEOUS and it would’ve been amazing if it had an elaborate set). It theoretically makes sense for stuff like this, but they didn’t do anything interesting with it besides the World Burn when it mimicked a copier. Most of the time it was just bland

I mean it's literally canon that Janis and Regina are two sides of the same coin. And I always saw it as Regina started the rumour because she is so self obsessed and assumed everyone loved her that she genuinely thought that Janis was in love with her. Then she grasped on to the whole Lebanese/lesbian thing and started bullying her. And ot stuck because 1. She's Regina George and 2. Because Janis is an alt art girl Making her actually be straight helps reinforce the message that anyone can look like anything (without it being because of or having any effect on ones gender identity or sexuality) and show how teen girls really dont need a reason to rip you to threads

Musical Janis always gave me the vibe of those teenage girl characters from Nickelodeon who were all edgy and punk and wore clothes that made no sense, and were not like the other girls, etc.

@AlexJodiVerge

2 жыл бұрын

100%, it's very jade-likes-scissors, which is 'quirky' and 'funny' instead of genuinely ruthless. It's also boring hahaha

Your last point about being preformed in highschools makes COMPLETE sense. The anti bullying shit I experienced in school was completely sanitized and really dumb. It was awful ngl n stupid.

@bookshelfhoney

2 жыл бұрын

I always hated the word "bullying" and all the anti-bully stuff cause like to me bullying is a little kids issue, like pushing on the playground, stealing toys. by the time you're in high school you're dealing with harassment, assault, stalking, etc, the idea that you can just tell people to "be nice to each other guys" and it'll fix it...ugh

@yukiandkanamekuran

2 жыл бұрын

Ayoo got 69 likes idk why tho

@yukiandkanamekuran

2 жыл бұрын

@@bookshelfhoney I don't agree. I was severely harassed and bullied that I lost actual memories of years in my life. I was scarred by the whole thing. Bullying is a serious and difficult issue, but it's not taken seriously enough. Bullying makes me want to end my bully's lives, and to this day, I still hold resentment towards them. It really shouldn't be taken lightly, especially by the children that do it.

@bookshelfhoney

2 жыл бұрын

@@yukiandkanamekuran I'm saying the word "bullying" sounds childish and not serious and makes it seem like it's not a big deal but actually the stuff that kids go through in middle and high school are serious, sorry I didn't explain myself very well I also had a terrible time in school and faced homophobia and other problems, didn't mean to belittle the issue!

@yukiandkanamekuran

2 жыл бұрын

@@bookshelfhoney yeah I see. It's okay. It's my belief that bullying should be treated more seriously though.

Hi, I used to be a huge Mean Girls Fan and was on tumblr in 2018-2020 when the show was on broadway, so i remember when this exact bootleg first came out. the ensemble member that keeps on getting zoomed in on is Becca Petersen, and this was filmed on her last show in Mean Girls. The person who filmed this bootleg had filmed many other dates of Mean Girls (they were the main source of MG bootlegs at the time) and they specifically attended this performance to see Becca’s last show, hence why they intentionally zoomed in on Becca a lot.

The problem with Janice is she manipulated Cady into getting revenge on the Plastics and used her as a pawn (wether she noticed it or not), then plays victim. She never gets called out as ringleader and never apologizes or even sees she was also in the wrong too. And then we’re supposed to root for her in the end because “Janice is right! She’s awesome because she is herself and we should be like her!” Like at least Regina apologized to Cady. This was my biggest problem with the film and the musical made it worse.

@briarts

3 ай бұрын

I picked up on that too, but I don't think it was a problem with the film. I took it as intentional because the title is Mean Girls and there are different ways this meanness can be portrayed. Janis also says "at least Regina and I know we're mean...." I think one key difference is though that Regina was a bully and mean to everyone. Janis was mean to Regina because of what she did. Manipulating Cady was wrong, but she showed more signs of actually wanting to be her friend, which is why she was upset when Cady changed. If Janis only used Cady to "dethrone" Regina, she wouldn't have continued to engage with her once Cady took her place. I think this got lost in the musical and they tried to paint Janis as the hero.

@xxxmaysilssss690

3 ай бұрын

Exactly! This problem is *especially* bad in the party scene where Janis calls Cady out. Her saying “at least me and Regina George know we’re mean” is her directly acknowledging her behaviour and makes her a direct mirror of Regina. This being switched out with the song someone gets hurts reprise ruins her. All Janis does in that song is call Cady out for being plastic with no substance to her own behaviour. It’s more like a self-pity “oh woe is me” ballad instead of something that’s filled with rage. This is called back when she sings I’d rather be me, since she paints herself even *more* of a victim by saying “yeah, both of my best friends have turned out to be mean :( I can do better than them” is such a misunderstanding of her character. Janis is mean. Why is she having an emotional power ballad after manipulating Cady for a good chunk of the film? Besides, the lack of anger towards Regina in the movie makes her actions even worse, since it seems like she’s messing with Regina for giggles instead of it coming from a place of genuine anger. Smh

@moxstoleyoursocks2241

2 ай бұрын

I will never understand why they cut that lind

Legally Blonde: The Musical is proof that Mean Girls could have been better.

@optimisms

2 жыл бұрын

THIS. just because it's a comedy doesn't mean it can't be phenomenal.

@rebekahshumway5083

2 жыл бұрын

No because the legally blonde musical was PERFECT!

@penne4107

2 жыл бұрын

Legally blonde is one of the best movie to musical adaptations. Was one of the most fun musicals to do.

@EJandEF4ever

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, so is Heathers the musical.

@santana7280

2 жыл бұрын

legally blonde is SUCH a good musical

regarding bad lyrics, i think you also solved the issue of why karen is so infantilized in the show- so much of the show is simple and kind of awkward lyrics that they need to make it doubly so for karen for it to seem like she's actually Less Smart than the rest of the cast...

@jaschabull2365

2 жыл бұрын

So basically Karen got made into the show's resident Ralph Wiggum? Ouch.

I always found it fascinating how american highschools apparently have this completely unique culture to them. Like, how do people have time socializing so much? How long are their breaks? How does every school seem to have extended programms for sports and arts and music and theater and such? In Germany, we just have classes with maybe 15 min breaks, in which everyone just goes to the toilet and to their next classroom.

@_bebeboudeur_

Жыл бұрын

Europe squad unite ! I mean, we still socialized : before class, at 10am, during lunch break (the longest), at 4pm and after class (if I remember correctly for my country). Enough time for bullies to bully, not enough for me to do extra arts and sports tho

@dotcom3015

Жыл бұрын

Clubs are after school hours. The way cliques are portrayed in older teen movies is kinda exaggerated. It might be different between private and public schools, but at my public school, people tended to stick with friends they’ve had since elementary, but weren’t that strict about socializing with newer people. My school still had a lot of drama, but there really wasn’t a defined social hierarchy. It was more just there was people you got along with and people you didn’t.

@sadoffer4972

Жыл бұрын

That's in TV and movies, actual American High School wouldn't be very interesting to watch.

@therealopaartist

11 ай бұрын

You get about twenty to thirty minutes for lunch, four minutes between 7-8 classes and before school and after school. For mine, there was half an hour before school and after school that was the ‘tutoring’ window where you could go ask your teacher for help with an assignment….even through they weren’t there half the time. How is it okay for the TEACHER to be late to start but if I’m one minute late because MACKENZIE wouldn’t move from the only free sink that worked because she wanted to do her makeup while I had to wash my hands, then ***I*** get into trouble for ‘lolly gagging’

@buglover88

10 ай бұрын

I know this comment is 9 months old but as an American high school was never as interesting or mean as the teen movies made it out to be which at first disappointed me but I was later grateful..I mean there were some asshole students but they weren't in cliques terrorizing other kids it was just friends talking amongst each other saying some dumb stuff and rude jokes I never saw any sort of groups or cliques or gossip. It was just pretty average

Some plot points that could've been interesting to add to the musical: Aaron Samuels starting as an airheaded football jock who wants to be nice but struggles with peer pressure from his male peers. The musical focuses more on female peer pressure so this would've been an interesting arc to add. It would also parallel Cadie's arc. Her arc is going from innocent and kind to a mean girl, Aaron would be going from a typical kinda mean jock to a genuine and nice guy. Janice struggling with being outed and being the only out lesbian in the school. Enough people have talked about this, so I won't. Cadie's parents feeling like they're losing her because she is changing so much. The movie shows a little bit of this, but not a lot. It would be interesting to see the parents realize something is up before Regina gets hit by a bus so that the blow up is built up.

@hollygarfield123

4 ай бұрын

watching the musical movie i think a lot of the concerns expressed here are also in the movie but i will say one of the only points that i actually felt anything for cady was when she was talking how her and her mom used to watch the stars together and her kind of wishing she was a kid again

Wait, they toned down Regina's bodyshaming? I mean, I get that sometimes even having a bad guy do a thing normalizes it, but you have to balance that against the fact that never portraying a thing stops you from commenting on that thing at all. Regina is a criticism of a young woman who cuts down other young women by using sexist double standards, and toning down bodyshaming from that is like making a film about war where nobody fires any bullets. I... I have to admit I haven't seen the show but that makes no sense to me.

@Alek.17

2 жыл бұрын

Well, it is not explored as much as it is in the movie, but in the show Regina is dieting and Cady gives her the kalteen bars. There’s even a scene where she wears a fat suit so I don’t agree that the body shaming is totally absent from it.

@LaneMaxfield

2 жыл бұрын

@@Alek.17 Got it. I almost feel like that's the worst part of the bodyshaming, though. It's framed as something that the "good guys" do as revenge while you are kind of rooting for them, rather than a shitty thing the villain does that is framed as a reason to dislike her. I'd have kept Regina's dialog and changed the revenge plan, personally.

@thecolourfulpill

2 жыл бұрын

@@Alek.17 A fat suit doesn't work in this at all? Regina isn't supposed to be "fat" at that point, she's not even supposed to be chubby. She's supposed to go from a 0 to an 8? I had to check it and it's a medium. That's the point: that she's still thin, yet not THIN ENOUGH. It's there to show how they're just looking for excuses to treat someone like trash and that a size difference is enough to exclude her from the group.

@thecolourfulpill

2 жыл бұрын

@@LaneMaxfield And I agree partially with how it being revenge is terrible? But I also feel like it was SUPPOSED to be a horrible thing, since pretty much everything they do to Regina isn't just "mean", instead it's kinda evil. Even that part could get dangerous, since they're giving her bars that make you gain a lot of weight verry quickly. It could EASILY mess up her health?

@Alek.17

2 жыл бұрын

@@thecolourfulpill I mean it's not a full body fat suit if I remember correctly and it's not like an XXL thing or anything. The scene goes with them at Regina's room putting on their Christmas costumes for the show and Regina's skirt doesn't fit, and later while they are performing, her skirt falls off or something??? And her butt is exposed and like,,, that's supposed to be funny I guess. It's more like butt padding like the one Rachel McAdams wears in the movie in the scene they tell regina she can't sit with them bc she's wearing a tracksuit. My point was that the bodyshaming aspect wasn't absent from the musical like Sarah said at some point in the video I think. But it still doesn't make it better lol

I actually like Karen's "modern feminism" line in Sexy. A bit outdated maybe, but I think it's a dig at the 'girl boss' style of feminism that is marketed to young women and girls. Like girls are encouraged to be sexy 'for themselves' at its a bit weird. Kind of like the CXG song Put Yourself First. What gives me the ick about the song is that it's a 30 year old woman, pretending to be 16 and singing about being sexy

@flaviacaribe4993

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think the problem Sarah has is the line itself, but how it doesn't fit the character and song overall

@butterknifepatten4455

2 жыл бұрын

imo it's also kinda weird to make it a dig at "modern feminism" when its a dig at a very specific brand of feminism that's actually fallen out of favor recently. it just ends up showing how out of touch w modern movements tina fey and the writers are that they think that's all modern feminism is

@lucymontfort5456

2 жыл бұрын

@@butterknifepatten4455 I do agree with you, but the musical was written sometime around 2016 I think, so I think it probably wasn't as cringey then as it comes across now.

As a gay man: never seen Janis as a lesbian in the film. I thought Regina heard she's lesbanese and she misheard it as lesbian and spread it. Or probably she just wanted to mess with her.

@erinnadia0409

4 ай бұрын

When I was about 8 years old my friend in school told me she was Latvian and I thought she meant lesbian and I went around and told our friend group she was a lesbian. I still loose sleep over starting that rumour and getting the word lesbian confused with a country 🇱🇻

@mylesmarkson1686

4 ай бұрын

Nope, the lesbian/Lebanese thing came from an episode of the TV-show The Golden Girls. I am with you that I never thought of Janis as a lesbian, just as a rumor that Regina was determined to spread. However, she could have been bisexual or really was a lesbian and only hooked up with Kevin G at the end to stop the rumors once and for all.

The highlight of my day was listening to James Schaffrillas deadpan say the words, "I don't need their good opinions. I have plenty of opinions. Everybody has opinions but it doesn't make them true."

11 minutes in and this, admittedly brilliant, video doesn't mention my man Kevin G. The audacity.

@SarahZ

2 жыл бұрын

I can't believe this video is anti-mathlete

@KingsandGenerals

2 жыл бұрын

@@SarahZ be better!

@fightingfitz214

2 жыл бұрын

Feels so surreal seeing this channel here

@KingsandGenerals

2 жыл бұрын

@@fightingfitz214 this military historian is a big softie

@raygedd9693

2 жыл бұрын

@Faye Litzinger absolutely. I’ve seen him pop up in the comment section of a few of these types of KZread videos

Something that annoys me so much in this musical is the clothing, like yeah it's not supposed to be the 2000s anymore but the movie does SUCH and amazing job telling the story through the clothing, and the musical was such a disappointment, mostly Janis like wtf goth aren't extinct

@thekitkatlizard8661

2 жыл бұрын

It's funny that Janis was supposed to be a cool alternative girl but now she just looks like the most BASIC of tumblr users, honestly fitting the current norms pretty well

@liyre4189

2 жыл бұрын

UGH yes!! Another one is Regina, her outfits are just boring ://

@agnessofiacastrocarvalho774

2 жыл бұрын

Janis isn't fucking goth

@abimbolaakinrin9325

Жыл бұрын

the way that the musical was released in 2018ish and the fits all look like theyre from 2014.....,..why is cady wearing wedge sneakers and a giant denim belt, why is there an infinity scarf, why is regina's meet the plastics outfit 2 colors?? if regina saw the musical, let's be honest, she'd have like a section of the burn book dedicated to it

@stickmanapproved

Жыл бұрын

where did you watch the musical ?

i always thought the scene where regina compliments the girls skirt and then mocks it to cady, completely out of the skirt owners earshot, was so....stupid? almost funny? as a kid who was very shy and generally ignored/mildly bullied around that age, if the popular girl in school complimented my skirt, i would ride that high until senior year. like, okay congrats regina, u just gave this girl a ton of confidence, weird bullying tactic

@adeleaslan8182

Жыл бұрын

I think it’s meant to be a power play for Regina. The person she makes the joke to suddenly can’t trust her and thinks that she’s doing the same thing to them behind their back

@persussle-

Жыл бұрын

I actually had (ex)friends who did this. I still don't know why, but it's definately a thing that happens

@realestsienna

Жыл бұрын

what’s so confusing about that…?? it’s literally so obvious what she was doing ☠️☠️

@merchantfan

Жыл бұрын

People would do this to me- you can usually tell if they're making a joke about you and if you don't "get" it's a fake compliment then they laugh about you even more for being a sucker

@hana-chan420

11 ай бұрын

You weren't bullied by popular pretty girls and it shows.

i've thought about this kind of thing with west end heathers - removing blue and adding i say no is supposed to be some 'girlboss' moment, but blue is so jarring because it's a funny song to disguise a possible rape situation. veronica is able to say no to things, she has done before and will do again. sometimes, you can't 'just say no', and you have to fight, and that's what makes the deaths of ram and kurt feel as grey as they do - if they get their asses handed to them by veronica and then she kills them, it has far less of an effect. idk man, sometimes i think neoliberal feminism makes entertainment bland and takes darker, deeper meanings out so it'll sell better to radicalised tiktok tweens

@andreagoh2732

2 жыл бұрын

Huge agree! I've never seen anyone else comment on this in the wild, so I'm so glad to find this - the lyrics of "I Say No" feel so incredibly hollow... As if we wouldn't already have gotten everything stated there from the existing songs and action already? And removing "Blue" felt so incredibly unnecessary - the audience doesn't have to be agreeing with or condoning whatever's happening on stage' actions, but IT'S OKAY to have that displayed in a song and for them to laugh at a fucked up thing (that the creators have knowingly & deliberately presented in a humourous way!!!!) dark comedy isn't illegal, and it's really not necessary to obliterate it entirely as they did with the song

@ohemgeeorgia

2 жыл бұрын

@@andreagoh2732 yeah absolutely! to say that any portrayal is endorsement is weird - and it means we miss out on some of the things that make heathers, as a black comedy (like you said), work. what we have now, i think, are production teams who are VERY afraid of appearing unwoke but don't really understand why It's important to be socially aware in the first place. you can't just be politically conscious for the sake of it, you need to place it well and you need to know when to let it lie and tell a truer story 😊

@zen0vi

2 жыл бұрын

I heavily disagree on the Blue topic. The change came about not for some neolib moment but because Blue was making light of a date-rape situation. I have seen so many people try to justify this with "oooh but they're just stupid drunk highschool boys and Veronica was in control of the situation

@ohemgeeorgia

2 жыл бұрын

@@zen0vi i get what you're saying - but for me, i think setting a precedent of 'You can't laugh at this' is a) bad for all comedy and all media in general and b) has real-world consequences for people who have had terrible things happen to them and then feel that the only way to cope is to be serious and deferential to it. i understand that i say no gives veronica more autonomy - and i'm glad that's a thing because as much as she is swept up in the fantasy, she is still strong and it's good we see that rather than just the implication. and i'm also not some 45 year old sun reader complaining about wokeness for the sake of it - i am just getting tired of timely and thoughtful pieces getting retroactively changed to fit some producers version of inclusion that they learnt on zoom. as a woman with similar experiences to veronica in that song, i don't wanna have to hold that up as sacred and not find any humour in it because the vogue now (as brought to us by these producers) is to not. completely understand what you're saying, and i definitely think less thoughtful media should avoid frivolity around heavy topics - and shows like i may destroy you and the third series of broadchurch are excellent at portraying the destruction sexual abuse leaves in its wake - but blue to me doesn't have those stakes because you know its not gonna happen. it's still a dark comedy. i understand what you mean about her telling jd to fuck off - that was a nice touch, but i often think there's still a nudge and a wink to the audience like 'GET IT?! IT'S FEMINIST!' which obviously has its place in lots of media, but not ones where it seems shoehorned to get retweets on sassy posts or whatever

@ohemgeeorgia

2 жыл бұрын

@@zen0vi it is a banger tho

Reminds me of that Lemony Snicket quote about not being able to write a villain who doesn't do villainous things

my bigger issue with the OG meangirls and LGBTQ+ stuff is less around janice and more about how damien's sexuality is literally JUST treated as a joke. For a guy who's "too gay to function" he doesn't even have a crush, let alone an actual love interest. His sexuality is like an accessory and punchline. His "gayness" is completely severed from romantic or sexual attraction and instead defined solely by his gender presentation, afectation, and interests. this movie came out when I was a kid, and at the time, I honestly didn't know what "gay" was. I thought it was like a trend/thing for fashionable white men (I'm neither white nor a man), because that was what I saw on TV and movies. As far as it being "a different time," when I think of the LGBTQ+ rep (and racial issues!) from Mean Girls, I can't help but also think about Clueless, which came out 10 years earlier, and featured way better representation for characters of color as well as a gay character who wasn't ostracized or teased for being gay. It wasn't even his defining charchteristic. W/o spoiling Clueless, I'll say that at the end, the main character reflects on all of her friends and her take away from Christian, said queer character, is that he loves art and strives to see the beauty in everything. (yes I know damien is an art kid but his art isn't really explored. i get that it's a teen comedy, it's not that deep and wasn't TRYING to be that deep, it just is kind of :/ that the teen comedy from 1994 has less racist and homophobic elements/undertones than the one from 2004.

@kitnal4143

2 жыл бұрын

I always saw Mean Girls as a parody of teen movies in the same vein as Scream was for slashers. Like it treated itself as a unique idea and concept but heavily leaned into the tropes and stereotypes of the genre to be referential.

@ahhh4117

2 жыл бұрын

The idea of a gay man being viewed as "basically a woman" by women and the narrative is reinforcing this idea absolutely sucks. Like he's a gay man but he's really not (allowed to be) gay and the story doesn't treat him as a man.

@Chonk_enthusiest

2 жыл бұрын

@@ahhh4117 This, absolutely this. So often in both media and real life, gay men are just simply not treated as men, I'm glad someone else noticed this...

@Hecateofcrossroads

2 жыл бұрын

@@kitnal4143 I would say scream and mean girls arnt parody’s there are self aware they both are still a teen movie and a horror film just ones that are confident in there selfs as a horror fan the original scream is honestly a great horror movie

@kitnal4143

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hecateofcrossroads you can function as a seminal piece of media in a genre whilst also satirising said genre- something both Mean Girls and Scream does effectively.

Lindsay's performance carried the movie, she's the reason why all the other outlandish characters work togetter and the whole thing is as effective. I actually think she's very underrated due it being much more nuanced and subtle in comparison to others, and not having all the other memorable one liners

@sorryifoldcomment8596

2 ай бұрын

100% agree!

I always thought big difference between Heathers: the Musical and Mean Girls: the Musical is the role they are meant to play in commercial theater. Heathers made its way up to becoming an off-broadway production, and Mean Girls was always meant to be a Broadway show from its first inception. So it was written and directed with an eye to catering to seniors and kids and tourists in a way that Heathers never really was. I didn't think about licensing! Of course! I LOVE your breakdown of how the writers made so many poor adaptation decisions along the way. I never thought about the two-act musical versus three-act films before!

@All-ze9cl

6 ай бұрын

I agree! Heathers felt authentic because they knew they could do whatever they wanted with it since it was off broadway. Heathers may not have made the same money, but theater should not be about cash, it should be about the musical itself.

I’ve always found it smart for a movie or a show not to point out every “bad” thing. Like yes, Regina does have eating disorder and it is horrible that Janice chooses to make her gain weight knowing that. We don’t need a character to point that out. We don’t need someone to stand and say: wow, that’s really bad. I also find it funny that everybody just “moves on” after Karen says about nude pics. There are those awkward moments when someone suddenly overshares like “yeah, my dad used to beat me and my mom and then he got into jail for burning our neighbor’s house right before Christmas, so my family doesn’t really celebrate it”. I’ve been in these situations and believe me, everybody just stands in shock and then tries to continue conversation, so this was on point in the show.

@idrk3707

2 жыл бұрын

exactly. we already realize its bad, the movie respects the viewer's intelligence enough to not explain everything

@butterknifepatten4455

2 жыл бұрын

i think the reason not addressing it kinda sticks out for some people is that oftentimes eating disorders are trivialized or played for jokes rather than taken seriously, and so even in edgy comedies like mean girls there's this worry from the audience that the subject matter isn't being taken seriously. that's not to say i think they should have addressed it, but i understand why people would want them to. also the karen thing sticks out to me because in media, generally if you introduce something about the character that would have impacted them that much, there's a reason for it. it's not meant to characterize her as an oversharer, or really characterize her at all in any way that matters, it mostly seems like they added it because what happened to her is a common issue and they wanted to shoehorn in their two cents about it.

@ramywiles

2 жыл бұрын

Re: OP and the comment above me: I'm definitely biased because I myself didn't think about Regina through the lens of eating disorders until it was explicitly pointed out to me many years down the road, but as much as I love this movie, I think it's giving it too much credit to say that we were supposed to read Regina as having an eating disorder and Janis as specifically triggering that disorder by sabotaging Regina's diet. This was a movie made in the mid-2000s, after all, and fat jokes were a comedic staple. Off the top of my head, there's only one moment in the movie where her relationship to her body isn't a comedy beat -- "sweatpants are all that fits me right now" as she's being excluded from sitting at the Plastics' table. If it were made now, seventeen years later, I can agree that it would feel a bit hamfisted if they turned Janis' revenge into an eating disorder PSA, but back in 2004? We probably could have used it. And either way, we can definitely stand to talk about it now. Honestly, given how sensitive Rosalind Wiseman is to the topic of teenage girls' eating disorders in her book, making Regina's weight gain funny feels especially awful in retrospect.

@Forestfreud

2 жыл бұрын

@@ramywiles yeah, I think the weight gain plot in the Mean Girls movie was just a product of 2000s fatphobia. The movie didn’t care about eating disorders and i really don’t think it was meant to be a hint that Janis was a villain, I think it was just that Tina Fey went “you know what’s the worst thing a person could do to another person? Make them gain even a tiny amount of weight.” Because she’s kinda fatphobic, like most skinny people popular from the early 2000s are.

@Weirdanimalboy

2 жыл бұрын

I mean at least Book of Mormon had the rest of the Missionaries have their laughter devolve into a few uncomfortable coughs when one of them brings up he skipped out on his cancer ridden sister dying and the fact he could develop cancer one day. Granted they all kind of had fucked up lines, like the one having his mother beaten by his father. But there’s some acknowledgment of the tone difference between the cheery step music and the dark lyrics

One of the original teen musicals is West Side Story. And no one can make the case that the lyrics didn't elevate the story. And it was perfectly authentic. "It's for teens so it doesn't matter if it's actually good" is the same argument people use to excuse poorly written YA books.

@MsFeyCreature

2 жыл бұрын

And also to dismiss well-written YA books.

@elizrebezilmadommdo1662

2 жыл бұрын

@@MsFeyCreature True.

One thing I’ve always hated about this musical was the treatment of Reneé Rapp aka Regina. She was body shamed and her costumes were altered without her knowledge after the cast and crew talked about her weight fluctuating which triggered her ED and eventually led to her leaving the show. I’m glad she’s getting the chance to do Regina justice in the new film musical though and it sucks she had to go through that bc she truly is a beautiful woman with a heart of gold

@erikdaniels0n

5 ай бұрын

Reneé Rapp is the main reason I’m seeing the movie

@oizyzz

4 ай бұрын

and unfortunately people are still body shaming her :/

@chaoticxkam7598

4 ай бұрын

@@oizyzz it’s so unfortunate and i wish ppl would learn to stop commenting on anyone else’s body other than their own but sadly, this is the world we live in

@chaoticxkam7598

4 ай бұрын

@@erikdaniels0n she was soooo good in it omg

@oizyzz

4 ай бұрын

@@chaoticxkam7598 i agree hardcore. she crushed her role imo but everyones gotta have a problem with everything on the Internet

“It’s 2021, I won’t stand for goth erasure!” Is my new favorite thing anyone has ever said

i think karen's moment in stop is supposed to emulate the darker moments of 'turn it off' in book of mormon. it just works a lot better in a show that had already established these darker themes as opposed to mean girls which never did

@vikavoltisepic3507

Ай бұрын

I thought that too!!!

If the musical was written with licencing it to high schools in mind, that could also explain the defanging of the writing/characters/plot. It’s an easier sell to parents/staff/etc if it isn’t at all risqué.

@toxicsugarart2103

2 жыл бұрын

Oh that’s definitely a good point

@doodlebrain6594

2 жыл бұрын

That makes perfect sense

@LL-ht2dd

2 жыл бұрын

I agree but this is reminding me of my high school making 9th and 10th graders perform big spender lol

@bassett_green

2 жыл бұрын

Ahh I hadn’t even considered that. Good shout

@arg3824

2 жыл бұрын

There are a lot of shows that have a school licensed version that's cleaner than the Broadway original though.

I know this isn't stated in the movie proper, but I always assumed that the reason the movie didn't give a country in particular to katie, just saying "Africa," is I just assumed with her parents being biologists, that they just moved around a lot within Africa, so she never really had a set down home in Nigeria or South Africa or Ethiopia or anything, they just like lived out of an RV or something lol

i appreciate how you put tom hooper's name in air quotes, alongside the title of "cats". it insinuates that tom hooper does not exist imo and that's a world i'm happy living in

I think the whole Janice sexuality mess makes a lot of sense if you’ve watched Tina Feys show thirty rock. Her self insert character was presumed to be a lesbian in her childhood but is fully straight. Maybe Tina Fey was bullied for being perceived as gay as a kid and just hasn’t let go of that hang up

@mj7087

2 жыл бұрын

From what I’ve seen (granted I went to catholic school) kids when they bully don’t really care what your sexuality actually is, just what they think it is. I’m gay but didn’t get bullied in high school until I was outed, while a straight friend of mine who fit the “lesbian stereotypes” was terribly bullied. Idk I actually kinda liked how they treated Janice

@Spamhard

2 жыл бұрын

This was always my take on it. I know it's a fairly personal opinion but I had an extremely similar experience in high school so Janice getting with a guy at the dance seemed perfectly standard to me. Even if she *was* lesbian or bisexual, expecting her to conform and openly 'come out' just for the sake of a school dance seems extremely opposite from my experiences with high school, lol, and unfair on a teenaged girl. When I was in school in the 90s/early 00s in some back-end city in the UK, openly dating same sex just wasn't a thing that happened, and I don't think it's fair to put that pressure on teens even now. I've always been an exceptionally masculine girl, and throughout my high school years especially I was consistently bullied for not only acting/looking like a boy, but also got called every gay slur under the sun because everyone joked that I was a lesbian. I was so insecure that I didn't even accept or explore that as a possibility (but I also wasn't very interested in boys either). I still had a boy date for our dances, and the few times I did date, it was happily with boys. At the time I considered myself fully straight, still did into my 20s, and I don't think that was anything to do with lying to myself. Sexuality changes. Tl;dr; I was a straight teen who was heavily bullied about being perceived a lesbian. Janice's arc and end seemed fine to me, even if she *was* actually gay, there's nothing shameful about taking a boy to prom.

@lenah9027

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but the characters name is literally Janis Ian, which is also the name of a 70s singer songwriter whose a lesbian

@Spamhard

2 жыл бұрын

@@lenah9027 People can be named after things and not be a direct copy of thair namesake. Even a character who is an homage or parody of another name doesn't need to be identical. Janis in Mean Girls wasn't a 70's singer songwriter, for instance, so why should her sexuality factor in?

@lenah9027

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spamhard I’m not saying that needs to be the case, but it’s pretty much the only thing your average person would know about Janis Ian the singer, so it’s odd if it wasn’t intentional

The first time I listened to Rather Be Me, i remember getting all emotional and my first thought just being, “god, middle school me would’ve loved this, I wish it came out then.” But that’s… kinda the exact problem, isn’t it? You hit the nail right on the head, it’s a song written to market to sad kids but not an actual working piece of the musical. Also the older I get the more I hate the lyrics lmao. I hope they’re helping some twelve year old somewhere, but uh… yeah. That’s maybe the best and only nice thing I can say about it.

@littlezorkie9311

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah when I was in 8th grade I loved this musical and was obsessed with that song especially. I even almost sang it for my talent show. Now I hate it lmao

@jesscervantes13

2 жыл бұрын

I was 14 when I became obsessed with the musical and loved this particular song, I was genuinely on the verge of tears when I saw the musical, now I can't listen to the song lmao

@NameName-yj7lp

2 жыл бұрын

@@littlezorkie9311 it’s just so unfitting? Like it’s a good song but not He r e

@Mskittenlover12

2 жыл бұрын

I thought the same about primarily early high school for me. I realize now I think I've established a natural bias towards it because I needed it in high school.

@kappa_studios

2 жыл бұрын

Whats wrong with it? Just xurious

She doesn't even go here was peak comedy to me as a child and still is honestly. So many good memories watching the movie

about cady’s character development turning into a mean girl (plastic): before the show got to broadway, during the washington dc tryouts, “stop” (sang by damian) wasn’t act two’s opening number , instead there was a number called “bossed up”, which was a solo sang by cady that would show her persona being consumed by meanness and the spirit of being the “new queen bee”, giving more depth to her transformation. unfortunately it was cut after some performances. they even turned it into a duet between cady and damian, but eventually it was also cut. (you can listen to it here on youtube - it was officially published by the mean girls crew after two years since they premiered the show on broadway).

Totally agree. The musical weirdly tries to go more subdue and literal instead of playing up. And it lacks the edge. Mean Girls IS a really edgy movie. Characters need to be over the top and wrong because they're teens. And Mean Teens. It feels flat biteless. It feels a lot like the Legally Blond musical, but Legally Blond is fun and fluffy so it works there.

@erikdaniels0n

2 жыл бұрын

Mean Girls the movie is basically a satire, so unless you really play up the satire, it falls flat in comparison

@CleverUsername69420

2 жыл бұрын

I was worried that you were about to insult the masterpiece that is Legally Blonde (movie and musical). I would’ve thrown hands lol

@thefirstface4575

2 жыл бұрын

I read it that way too at first!

@shinyagumon7015

2 жыл бұрын

And *Gay and European* is a banger

@CleverUsername69420

2 жыл бұрын

@@shinyagumon7015 the entire soundtrack is a banger

Prior to the show’s release, Tina Fey was on Jimmy Fallon and she talked about how her daughter has seen Mean Girls and took a shine to Regina and Fey was like “no that’s not the point” With that in mind I think Fey tried to sanitize the show so the youths wouldn’t get the wrong idea

The sheer IRONY of 55:21 now that we’re getting a movie of the musical of the movie… omg

I HATED the costuming in this show for the most part. why is Janis dressed like her favorite store is Hobby Lobby?

@batfurs3001

2 жыл бұрын

Janis dresses exactly like my ex girlfriend (I'm also a girl, to be clear), who's also obsessively an artist. It doesn't help that janis's actress looks VERY similar to her so yeah

@bobsburgers8497

2 жыл бұрын

Regina was dressed the worst imo

@mallory.persephone

2 жыл бұрын

another thing: i love barrett wilbert weed (the actress) but she couldn’t pull off half of the costumes

@tabitha9723

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobsburgers8497 Her spring fling dress in the musical is honestly upsetting someone needs to be fired

@asmrtpop2676

2 жыл бұрын

@@batfurs3001 she looks exactly like an ex friend of mine who is also queer and so am i lol

My fav lyrics are " if regina is the sun then im a disco ball, cause im just as bright and fun if you've had alcohol."

I do think that the "imagine a party with dresses and cake, and singing and dancing and cake" is supposed to be funny, like it's meant to be bad, but I can't be sure when I think about the rest of the lyrics LMAO

Personally, I find the Mean Girls musical enjoyable, but there are some glaring issues that I wasn't able to put into concrete thoughts. So thank you for this.