The biggest plot twist would be that Stannis really is Azor Ahai reborn and he just died anyways.

So for comparing Elizabeth I to Sansa, here's some stuff I came up with: Elizabeth's status changes pretty rapidly when she's a kid: her mother was beheaded for treason (Ned's death) and she was demoted from princess to bastard (Sansa becoming Alayne Stone). She ended up living with her step-mother Catherine Parr and her new husband Thomas Seymour, who is a creep to Elizabeth (Littlefinger). Thomas eventually tries to do a power-grap and maybe kidnap Elizabeth's half-brother the king, and because she lived with him, Elizabeth falls under suspicion (Sansa's role in the Purple Wedding). Later when Elizabeth's Catholic half-sister Mary Tudor is queen, Elizabeth becomes a rallying point for Protestant malcontents so she's under constant suspicion and nearly executed (Sansa's time in King's Landing in ACoK and ASoS). Not sure if we can extrapolate this parallel to predict events in TWoW and ADwD though... Elizabeth ends up on the throne, so maybe Sansa becomes queen like in the show? (not sure I like keeping the feudal system intact like that..) Elizabeth had a bit of a rivalry with her cousin Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots, ended up imprisoning and ultimately executing Mary, then being succeeded on the English throne by Mary's son James VI - so maybe that translates to Sansa executing Jeyne Westerling, Jeyne Poole (please not Jeyne Poole - I want her to live and be happy and live as sisters with Sansa) or Roslin Frey, and naming their kid as her heir?

Maybe Jon Arryn and Stannis were actually bros. Completely into each others vibe. Stannis might have made Ned just some random kid he'd known a while back in comparison.

Potatoes are cheaper tomatoes are cheaper. Now's the time to fall in love. Every year, housing, health care and higher education become less affordable. The short term stats might be what they tell us are good numbers, but people still feel squeezed.

I think that, in general, there are a lot less shenanigans going on than people think. Less grand plans, less manipulations, less secret partnerships. The beauty of this of course is that George has written a story that 100% includes grand plans, manipulations & secret partnerships but we've all been questioning everything for so long that's it's become impossible to tell the real from the imagined. My rule of thumb (and it's by no means definitive) is to ask "what narrative purpose does this serve ?" Does it drive the plot ? Does it have something to say ? If the answer to both of those questions is no then it might be best to look for another theory.

I always thought jon arryn picked stannis to foster SR because they both had kind of misfit kids and he wasn't planning on dying so he was probably trying to keep Lysa happy by not sending him too far.

2:03:33 I don't necessarily agree that Tolkien would have hated the Jackson adaptation the way his son did. Look up Tolkien's letters on a proposal of an adaptation by an American film student, where Tolkien himself actually suggested cutting the whole siege of Helm's Deep to make the story shorter, along with some other cuts. Look at his comments on illustrations, where he was ready to accept crazily divergent designs as long as they weren't too different in size from what he described in the book (one pic of Gollum had him as a giant shambling mound of nothingness, and Tolkien's only complaint was him being too big in size). He was much less of a stickler for "purity" than his son. On the other hand, he rejected The Beatles Tolkien adaptation, because he just didn't like the idea of a pop-music band being handled a story like his.

QEI had red hair. People called her a bastard. She had a court favorite she called Sweetrobin. But mostly, Sansa and Elizabeth both demonstrate the wielding of soft power politics in a world of warrior Kings.

> trolley problem and refusing to choose I don't really share this world view, but I think I kinda understand it. If you do something, you are responsible for the outcome. You switch a trolley from a track where it kills 10 men to a track where it kills one man => you personally killed one man. If you don't do anything, you are not responsible for the outcome. You don't switch a track and a trolley kills 10 men => you didn't do anything, not your fault, fault of whoever created this situation. And since in real life the circumstances and consequences of stuff aren't as clear as in thought experiments, I kinda understand it.

@corytrevor5649

3 ай бұрын

If you csn save 10 men and refuse to act you are responsible

bahaha i loved cosmic skeptic randomly playing because he was exactly what i was thinking about when you started talking about the trolley problem

Marwyn had the right of it. Prophecy shouldn't be trusted. You can interpret it however you like to justify anything. Believers in prophecy are capable of doing despicable things to bring on fulfillment or do despicable things to prevent it. People waste their lives waiting, pushing and living in fear and anticipation. Cersei might have been halfway sane if she never went to get her fortune told. Paracelsus wrote in his prologue to his prophecies that prophecy is useless. He said that if and when the prophecy is fulfilled, there is nothing that can be done to stop it, so what's the point? Even so, he says if you want to read mine, here they are. LOL

Fun fact: a lot of how you look is how you hold your face. I have a friend with DID who looks totally changed depending on who is fronting. So my theory is that the face they put on Arya is to cause her to hold her face differently. This is just enough to make her unrecognizable when not looked at closely

Even Barristan is shown to be Azor Ahai in ADWD. Reborn amidst salt (tears) "poor Qezza sobbing" and smoke "the carpets had begun to smolder" with a red sword "the longsword in his hand was red for half its length" which previously appeared to be burning "Ser Barristan pulled his sword from the scabbard. Its sharp edge caught the light from the brazier, became a line of orange fire"

3:00:38 with regards to Rhaegar and Elia's daughter Rhaenys, I think its safe to say she's dead from this Kevan Lannister quote: Kevan Lannister had been here, in this very hall when Tywin had laid the bodies of Prince Rhaegar's children at the foot of the Iron Throne, wrapped up in crimson cloaks. The girl had been recognizably the Princess Rhaenys, but the boy… a faceless horror of bone and brain and gore, a few hanks of fair hair. None of us looked long. Tywin said that it was Prince Aegon, and we took him at his word. (Epilogue ADwD) The narrative is pretty darn saturated with secret Targaryens running all over the place - I think one more is overkill? Rhaenys works best as a parallel to Tommen: just as Rhaenys was killed and lived a second life in her cat, Tommen will be killed and live again in one of his kittens? Perhaps even with a very explicit "the Lannisters killed my sister, therefore I'm going to execute their king-candidate rather than keeping him prisoner" justification from Aegon, to drive home the "vengeance is bad as it turns you into a horrible person who would justify killing an innocent child" theme?

@leomesser415

5 ай бұрын

You’re onto something

The opening lines of Daenerys I in ACoK: "The Dothraki named the comet shierak qiya, the Bleeding Star. The old men muttered that it omened ill, but Daenerys Targaryen had seen it first on the night she had burned Khal Drogo, the night her dragons had awakened." Daenerys fulfills the whole prophecy in the last chapter of AGoT: it's under a bleeding star (as per the quote), Daenerys is reborn (Illyrio literally says this to Tyrion in ADwD), smoke should be obvious, salt is from sweat (she is said to be profusely sweating in the pyre scene), the stone dragons are also clear (note the word 'awakened' in the quote above). If you want to include Mel's included detail of a burning sword you can even interpret Drogon as a burning sword.

@j-rey-

5 ай бұрын

I'd never seen all those details put together like that before, but now that I have, it seems pretty obvious. Other things that are a bit more tenuous, but still come to mind, are that Khal Drogo could be her Nissa Nissa. She ultimately killed him and used his burning body as part of a potential sacrifice, even if she was unaware that it was a potential sacrifice. Another thing that is much more iffy, but still noteworthy, is that Gendry said that the comet looked like a red hot sword fresh from the forge, i.e. a burning sword. Likewise, Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer using his partner's body as a sacrifice. But given that the comet fulfills the "bleeding star" part, I doubt it would also fulfill the "burning sword" part.

@anthonyclarke6620

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's totally obvious she fulfills the prophecy completely, thats why you have to make the jump of sweat to salt and 'interpret Drogon as a burning sword'. By making similair jumps, you could argue many other characters fulfill the prophecy, that's kinda the whole point.

@autje1970

5 ай бұрын

@@anthonyclarke6620 The point with Daenerys though is that she fulfills it in a single scene, a pivotal one right at the end of the first book. And from the beginning of the second book GRRM starts to piece the prophecy together. So I definitely think he came up with it with Daenerys in mind. Of course, I expect her to mimic the Bloodstone Emperor first by destroying King's Landing and taking the throne from Aegon VI, then the long night falls, and then she slips into the Azor Ahai role. In similar fashion I expect Jon to do a Night's King first, then a Last Hero (who essentially are the same as Bloodstone Emperor/Azor Ahai). Fitting that Daenerys would follow the stories around the Long Night from the East, and Jon would follow the ones from the West.

@anthonyclarke6620

5 ай бұрын

@@autje1970 I'd agree with you if it were any other writer, but George doesn't typically write prophecy to be fulfilled, whereas he very often subverts the reader's preconcieved ideas, and extremely typically writes dream/prophecy/myth as the work of malevolent puppet masters. The closest I can recall to an actual fullfilment is the prophecy in Fevre Dream, but even that does not go exactly as planned, ends up not mattering very much, and results in a very bittersweet ending. Sure, there are characters in the history of Westeros we are supposed to relate to our modern characters and can give us a clue to their future story, although I wouldn't call the Bloodstone Emperor one, as far as I can remember he is only mentioned in The World of Ice and Fire, so if his story is so important to predicting Dany's story, you think he would be mentioned in the main story. Personally, I don't see any reason to believe the show's ending would've been much different to the books' (though we'll never get it to compare) but I do think that believing in the Azor Ahai prophecy would've been at least a major part of why Dany massacres the people of King's Landing and why she ultimately has to die. Rather than being this successful and heroic fulfilment of her destiny or a necessary sacrifice to defeat the Others (who's much-hated anticlimactic show ending is actually in keeping with much of George's work), the prophecy is just the machinations of the Children of the Forest causing man to turn against man, and the girl who only ever wanted to live in the house with the red door becomes a genocidal maniac trying to fulfill prophecy. Leaving Bran, the physical vessel of the Childrens' collective consciousness, on the throne.

@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin

5 ай бұрын

But that wasn’t the prophecy in ACOK. It was “bleeding stars and darkness” and the sword was the most important part. GRRM and the characters just change things around later.

The difference between Morals and Ethics is that the word "Morals" comes from Latin while the word "Ethics" comes from Greek. Both the Latin "Moralis" from "Mos, Mores" and the Greek "ἠθική" from "ἦθος" mean "relating to habits." Usually we take Ethics to be a short form of "ethice arete" meaning "GOOD habits."

You think George was deliberately chaotic and vague about Azhor Ahai to show us how everyone was interpreting it wrong, and that it had very little relevance. I'm beginning to think that Arya killing the night king in the show was kind of showing us that...the futility of prophecies.

Gotta love Joel's absolutely unhinged take that the Trumps have good taste in decor. The most gaudy taste ever, everything covered in gold. It's a cartoonish parody of what rich people taste is. Love you Joel!

Jon Con might be the catalyst for a Kings Landing Conflagration. I see him more going to extremes because he did not go far enough at Stony Sept.

2:47:56 my favorite Targaryen generation is also the children of Aegon III and Viserys II. The way each king in this era acts as a foil to the others is really cool. Its also amusing to imagine Viserys II babbling about responsible fiscal policy desperately trying to put out the dumpster fire that is his nephews, nieces and kids. Also wonder if Viserys took some of Daeron I and Baelor's stupider decisions and tweaked then to be cunning plans? When Daeron is king, the Targaryens can't unite the realm via fear of dragons anymore, so why not unite them against a common enemy - Dorne? (um, ignore the catastrophic death toll this incurs.) Plus you can make rebellious lords join your host and send lots of men to Dorne, so you can basically have the lords/heirs hostage, put them on the front lines to kill them off, or put their men on the front lines to kill them off - the Roose Bolton strategy, essentially. I could see that after Daeron announces his plan to conquer Dorne, Viserys spends an hour bashing his head against a brick wall over the sheer stupidity of it, then spends the next four years behind the scenes reshaping it into a competent and ruthless plan, singlehandedly preventing the dynasty from collapsing. Likewise with Baelor... don't Baelor's actions ultimately kneecap the Faith far more than Jaehaerys or anyone else could have done? The Faith headquarters moves from the Starry Sept to Baelor's Sept in King's Landing, right under the thumb of the Targaryen kings. Baelor normalizes the Crown having direct and blatant influence over who gets to be High Septon, far more than does Jaehaerys. And by naming incompetent High Septons, I presume Baelor himself was unofficially the leader of the Faith? Not that this was Baelor's aim, but with Viserys doing what he could to salvage a smidge of competent rulership...

@kaitokagenou

5 ай бұрын

Aegon III's children are all pretty interesting characters (bar Rhaena ig? I don't remember much about her besides her becoming a septa). Daeron and Baelor are also basically two of the most recognized kings besides the Conqueror and the Conciliator. Daena gave birth to Daemon and with him the Blackfyre line which rippled into the Golden Company and Elaena had a pretty interesting life in her own right. Married thrice, gave birth to bastards, basically Mistress of Coin and lived up to seventy! Daeron's reign is a favorite of mine though. Dude barely ruled because he was stuck in Dorne for most of his reign, and he somehow got the support of most of the Seven Kingdoms. Mfer got Cregan Stark to send his heir down south (The heir died which rippled to the Stark succession crisis in the early 200s AC, but anyway). He delegated rule to Viserys, which makes sense I mean if he's stuck in the south might as well give the power to his uncle who's gonna be both loyal and incredibly competent at his job. Tons of people died though which yeah its Dorne its gonna suck. I do feel like Daeron's death is what caused the Blackfyre Rebellion. Daeron was going to be the start of a new age for the Targaryen dynasty. Young king ascending the throne, and he had everything going for him. Competent hand, somewhat stable realm, he was described as charismatic, handsome, self-confident. Probably a less horrible version of Joffrey (I hope). And then he gets assassinated and everything falls apart. Every member of the royal family must've been crushed when they heard of his assassination (Aemon also got captured and thrown in a cage too, he was probably the most defeated and depressed). With his death, Viserys II's line was going to end up on the Iron Throne no matter what. They weren't going to entrust it with Daena because Rhaenyra and sexism. Daeron I's reign to me is just missed potential. It could've been great, but it ended way too early so I can't even judge Daeron's character besides him being too prideful? Idk, off the back of his dad's reign, Daeron acting in that way must've been him trying to hype up the broken dynasty. The whole, "we don't need dragons, we're still pretty good" shtick.

My theory is that the story of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa was a straight-out recipe on how to imbue a powerful, obedient, and loyal soul into an object such as a sword. The main ingredients are Fire to sever the soul from a body, Blood to channel the soul into an object, and a (fake) love confession at the very MOMENT you kill the woman who loved you. Water is too weak. A lion's soul rebels. The soul of someone who dared to loved you, killed at the VERY INSTANT you tell her you love her back: THAT creates a truly legendary blade. This ties into my theory on the physical qualities of the soul in ASOIAF and who to manipulate it achieve almost all magical phenomenon in the story.

2:36:12 question about betrothals - so we hear a lot about tourneys in honor of teen/tween daughters (the tourney of Ashford and Lord Ashford's 13-year-old daughter; the tourney at Harrenhal for Lord Whent's daughter). Are these tourneys basically announcements, like "hey my daughter's officially on the marriage market now. All eligible young bachelors please come to my tourney" so the father can begin vetting son-in-law candidates and start negotiating a betrothal? And if yes, should this affect the Winged Knights tourney? (people in-universe who don't know about the Harry the Heir marriage pact view it as Littlefinger trying to portray Alayne as the most prestigious bachelorette on the market?) And if no, then why is this society that doesn't really care about women suddenly hosting every expensive tournaments in their honor???

Small correction: The prophecies in Harry Potter are true but self-fulfilling...and that is the point!

Love ya big P ❤

28:07 Preston, your David lightbringer impression is really coming along nicely 😂😂

@GameofThronesPodcast

5 ай бұрын

Careful, that dude is so starved for any kind of attention that he'll take you seriously and come into this comment section. He did it a while ago in a Facebook group when some random person made a alignment meme with him and Preston included and he made a whole fuss about it when it was all a giant nothing burger. Dude is fame and attention hungry

@sarahwbs

5 ай бұрын

Dude is totally unhinged, he blocked me for calling Dany a conqueror 😂

@GameofThronesPodcast

5 ай бұрын

@@sarahwbs He's known for doing that in the community, for blocking people who disagree with him. I've also seen tweets of him saying that Preston's theories are all wrong and that he understands the material better so we can rule out any future collab and he has accused Carmine of being a right-winger when all Carm does is dunk on right-wingers on twitter. LmL just talks a lot of smack and I've screen captured those moments in case he deletes them to backpeddle. He also believes he has the best asoiaf takes on the internet, once again I have proof of that. Dude is just delusional and cringe.

Hey, just quick one, how do you like Malazan book of Fallen, did you read it?

Ser Pounce is Azor Ahai!!! ADoS epilogue: Tyrion succumbs to alcoholism-induced liver failure, Tommen died from beet-related tooth decay; Stannis trips on a banana peel and perishes, and Ser Pounce rises from the ashes to begin a million-year dynasty of catnip and laser pointers and balls of yarn that can be pounced upon, chewed and nuzzled!!!

@iliaponomarev1624

5 ай бұрын

And JonCon will burn King's Landing looking for Ser Pounce!

@Mj_Jetson

5 ай бұрын

@@iliaponomarev1624 🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀 JonCon how could you!

So if the enemy is the white walkers, they are so vague right?

Why is Cersei so far down on that chapter list? Does it not reflect the chronology of events? Cersei I has gotta take place within a few days of the first day of winter, right? Or are most of the events taking place before the start of winter?

@SapphireSolstice67

5 ай бұрын

Maybe the trial was delayed because of the two murders?

13:38 Born in Salt and smoke.. could be a slab of awesome bacon..

My English teacher in 9th grade was a Drinkwater actually, who was also a coach lol

Isn’t the choice Stannis versus Tywin as that is the other person proposed

Nero is (quite literally in the text) The Beast, rather than the Antichrist

Do a stream on your favorite shows & movies please

Why would Melisandre get anything right? She was clearly sent to Westeros to find Dany, got to DragonStone found Stannis and then just stopped paying attention to all the rumors about the "Stormborn." Honestly, Melisandre is the character that makes tge least sense to me. How is it that everyone in Westeros knows about Dany except Mel? One other reason it bugs me is that no one ever tqlks about it, but it is pretty obvious. When Mel left the East she was sent to Dragonstone. Dany was born there, but left shortly after her birth. Stannis takes the castle after the Targ loyalists leaveand Melisandre understands none of this. Even though any random smallfolk in Westeros could probably tell you the exact day Danynwas born.

@jonttopia

5 ай бұрын

It kinda makes sense to me. Mel is a religious fanatic so she's used to convincing herself to believe things. She comes to dragonstone and hears about Dany. But Dany is powerless, on the run and a baby (and also a woman), while Stannis is a brother to the king. Mel would have a lot more influence and it all would be a lot easier if Stannis was azor ahai, so she convinces herself that that's the case, because Dany would be a lost cause kinda, and any doubt is just the great other trying to lead her astray.

@darksaint0124

5 ай бұрын

@@jonttopia You're attributing critical thinking skills to someone you call a fanatic. My issue isn't that Mel made a reasoned decision. My issue is that she seems to have no knowledge of something that everyone in Westeros knows. Even currently in the story, she seems to know the least about what is happening in the lands in which she comes from.

@lonemotheomatshaba9640

5 ай бұрын

I mean she is at the wall one of the most remote locations in the world...... ​@@darksaint0124

@jonttopia

5 ай бұрын

@@darksaint0124 I wouldn't call it critical thinking, it's just some reasoning you do almost subconsciously. "Azor ahai is strong, powerful hero. This exiled child girl is anything but powerful. Meanwhile one of the most powerful lords of the realm is standing in front of you and is actually, miraculously, open to your religion." No one in Stannis' court seem to know or care much about what happens in slavers bay, and why would they? They are at war. And why would Mel know any more than anyone else? She doesn't seem to have a spy/info network in the east, her fire visions don't seem to be much in her control and what interest would she even have in the east? Her Messiah is right here next to her, why would she care about anything that isn't directly related to her Messiah?

@darksaint0124

5 ай бұрын

@@jonttopia You still don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about Slaver's Bay. I'm talking about the shared story EVERYONE in Westeros has about the Stormborn and Melisandre here who should have heard the story at some point, but seems to never have encountered it. This is what my issue is. This isn't something you need some spy network for. This is just regular information that any random small folk knows, but Mel has absolutely no knowledge of it which is extremely strange to me. I personally think it is a mistake by George.

I'm wondering why Rhaegar named his first girl Rhaenys. Wasn't she supposed to be Visenya?

Shout out to the guy who ask why they should vote democrat over republican and got no advice from Preston. 😂

I UNDERSTAND!Preston is an interesting and intelligent person. Having him touch on American Politics really ruins the experience. I'm 20:58 into this, and I'm over it. I'm here to escape the dystopia not to gather the insight of another intellectual. PLEASE Preston do something, I'm here for ASOIAF

@chadsummerchild1120

5 ай бұрын

Politics & Asoiaf go hand in hand he’s made that clear.

Why would Cersei want to fulfill the Maggie the Frog prophecy? She only liked the part about marrying a king. And she actively wanted to prevent the younger more beautiful queen and the valonqar from coming true. So it makes no sense for her to choose to have three children.

@iliaponomarev1624

5 ай бұрын

I kinda assumed they just failed to have more kids for some reasons.

@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin

5 ай бұрын

She secretly hates herself is the only explanation I have

@TheKrostiman

5 ай бұрын

Arent almost all queens replaced by a younger more beautiful queen? Its a logical result of being part of a monarchy. offcourse one of her sons would marry someone half her age at some point. Kings are also usually replaced by a younger dude. All Maggie predicted was business as usual to play on typical insecurities.

😊

Preston is wrong, there is a case of soul mates in mythology. Red thread of fate in Chinese mythology, Yue Xie Laoren, the lunar matchmaking god attached a red string from the future-husband's ankle to the future-wife's ankle.

Weird to bring up the trolley problem and deontology and completely ignore the duty ethics perspective.

Am I the only one who doesn't think her name was "Nisa Nisa" ? Its just Nisa, dudes calling to her repeatedly,if your misses was in the sitting room and your in the barn you dont just shout her name once🤷 highlighted further by the astopori calling danny "mother" they say it over and over " misa misa" mother mother.

I always try to talk in terms of ethics rather than morals, not because I really believe that there is a difference, but because a lot of people do. It makes it easier.

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

Hearing Preston speak on Democrat vs Republican politics makes me think of the "you're the dumbest smart guy I know" quote. Willfully ignorant is probably the best summation I can think of.

@teddycaliendo6744

5 ай бұрын

yet you can't even articulate what exactly hes being willfully ignorant about

@jasonjackson33

5 ай бұрын

Preston is a typical white guy liberal. They seem like nice guys but you understand why the U.S acts the way it does with people like him who live here.

Preston be like: “Your friends” who don’t vote for the party I want “are virtue signalling” while virtue signaling himself lol

I listen to this to fall asleep and always wake up to some grumbling about native Americans,christianity, or Israelis. Kinda felt like maybe people were asking you this but you kinda just lead yourself back to bitching about religion and talking about these topics Oh well your channel. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Preston 🎉. Missed last few but I’ll watch this one