Goes 3 menus and a password entry deep, "why would he call it hidden"

@chazer793

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Anything that is not asked while doing the initial setup or doesn't appear in the main window is the definition of hidden.

@Kr0noZ

2 жыл бұрын

@@chazer793 Especially if you're a windows person like me, this is confusing. Installing any software on Windows will try by default to associate the new program with as many file types and settings as the software allows (just try installing VLC and look at all the file types it will tell windows to open in it by default if you don't configure something else). We Windows people are used to not really having to set up a program, it will do so by itself, sometimes aggressively so to the point that I had to manually reassign files to old software I prefer because I didn't notice that change during setup... Which also goes to show why Linus expected file types to matter, everything in Windows only ever looks at file extensions to determine what can be done with a file. That "save as" on github would have yielded a "*.sh.html" on windows making it clear that you just got a html file there and not a script.

@NawidN

2 жыл бұрын

@@chazer793 An option is "hidden" when you can only get it to show in a non-obvious way (for example, by enabling other options). It being behind a menu you choose not to inspect (even though it's clearly part of the settings) isn't "hidden". Do you call your phone's ringtone setting "hidden" because you need to enter menu's to see it?

@aktar1113

2 жыл бұрын

@@NawidN Yes, it's literally the definition. If something is not in plain sight then it is hidden, it's as simple as that. Saying that something isn't hidden but just "behind something you chose not to inspect" is the stupidest and most arrogant thing I've ever heard, in that case I'm supposed to check every single folder in existence, because all of them are something I didn't choose to inspect. Also, "even though it's clearly part of the settings" is subjective and very patronizing, something that the linux community seems to have made their core value. And people wonder why almost everybody sticks to Windows lol

@kac0802

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and that doesn't even take into account the fact that most people aren't going to know that they need to go out of their way to make the rest of the software available; They're just going to assume that if they open the software installer, all of the software that it can install will be searchable by default. I definitely understand (and agree) why it's not, but to Linus's point, there should probably be something on the first launch or some kind of indicator on the main screen that informs the user that some things are disabled (if we want to make things more intuitive for newbies).

Gardiner : Points out the flaws in Linux People : I sleep Gardiner : Makes a decaf People : *triggered*

@nebulous962

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao

@thomasphillips885

2 жыл бұрын

I like decaf. A good way of drinking coffee after 2pm without being kept awake at night

@iPondR

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasphillips885 TOTES! AGREE!

Finally a Linux user who doesn't immediately forget their years of Linux experience and thinks everything is super easy for new users. Coming from r/Linux to this is a breath of fresh air lmao.

@obvious_giraffe8386

2 жыл бұрын

Screech screech its TRiviAL. Just compile it

@Bamwich

2 жыл бұрын

@@obvious_giraffe8386 you guys must be the "chads" Luke was talking about.

@mucklus

10 ай бұрын

Aggressive and unlearned noobs usually hang out in r/linux4noobs, r/linuxquestions and similar cesspools. r/linux is just a bunch of fat trolls. Sane people use the sub of their distro.

I think what Linus meant by "hidden" option to enable flatpak was that by default it doesn't show those packages and you just have to know that you need to enable it before you can use them. If you don't know about flatpak, how would you know what to look for. "I just want to install my damn software, not get a degree in package management configuration"

@tstek

2 жыл бұрын

I'd also argue that requiring you to put in your password to get to that button might feel "hidden" to a new user. Linux users just kinda get used to putting in their password all the time when changing settings like that.

@TheDeath0706

2 жыл бұрын

It would be nice if you did not have find it in a setting menu at all. You could just have a toggle next to the search bar that would be like advanced search. Which would automatically enable all three of those things to be found. Like most search bars people commonly interact with on the internet.

@reezlaw

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheDeath0706 I agree. If there is any real intention to make Linux more mainstream, this kind of design choices are necessary.

@elcugo

2 жыл бұрын

Is there any package that is on flat pack that isn't in the official repository?

@vpxc

2 жыл бұрын

@@tstek?? that's literally unrelated to the meaning of the word 'hidden'

0:38 - Linux Gaming Challenge 1:15 - Rules of Engagement 1:45 - Running apt on Manjaro 2:54 - Weird shell issue 4:05 - OBS just works? 4:38 - Nvidia's drivers just suck 5:23 - Luke's OBS install experience 6:02 - Passing hardware through to a VM 7:55 - Linus' audio interface 9:57 - GitHub file explanation 11:57 - Luke's deep voice issue 14:09 - Pamac's hidden button 15:08 - KDE's UX being KDE's UX 15:36 - A mountain of confusion 16:29 - Linus' conclusion

@lucyinchat

2 жыл бұрын

Geeze, no mp3 use ogg, (I actually do believe that OGG has the capacity to be the superior format, but I never got that. I started using linux in 2012 and i've still got a disk of Ubuntu 14.04 that's gotten me out of plenty of jams the past 7 years.

@rohitrajak5128

2 жыл бұрын

Nvenc works fine as far as I can say, the reddit comment he referred to was 2 years old. I have an rtx 2060 and I've used nvenc with ffmpeg without problems. It's unfortunate on his part.

@Zendariel87

2 жыл бұрын

While it feels obvious for a Linux user that you can configure the software center/pamac, there isn't really equivalent in windows world, or consoles. What I mean is If you are not used to Linux the option is "hidden" for a new user by not knowing that the option to add more sources to the list even exists. It is kind of a small not obvious layer before you just install it. I tinker with linux and want to do the switch proper when I have a computer I feel I can do it on, but when i started getting into linux my experience was very similar to Linus. First time on manjaro I did not find the settings for pamac and ended up installing some other software for downloading flatpaks. It's really easy to find bad information on how to do things if you look for instructions the same way you look for instructions for windows and prefer written guides to youtube videos.

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zendariel87 "It's really easy to find bad information..." You've totally made my point. Actually, improving Linux's dismal documentation would be a great way to contribute to the community, but I wouldn't know where to start, but you've just given me an idea..... Maybe just to document barriers for Windows users as a start. Interesting idea. Thanks.

@zeyfuller

2 жыл бұрын

@@rohitrajak5128 There IS a newer version of nvenc that would have come up there on Windows. I wouldn’t be shocked if it really just isn’t on Linux.

yeah, I often suffer from the "curse of knowledge" when I watch this stuff. I'm like "oh that's easy! just use !" but then I see linus busy and most of the time I'm like "huh... yeah that's not an unreasonable guess from a windows' guy perspective..." I don't know, I'm at least happy to see that with the little experience they have they still manage to get things done, which is indeed waaaay better than it was 12 years ago.

@NiekNooijens

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobDevV yep, but for developers it's absolutely awesome 😉

@viiltelijamurhaaja7225

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah most guides are hard to follow because the assume that i know how to Linux when i fact i don't and that's the i reason i need that guiee

@javabeanz8549

2 жыл бұрын

Guess I really don't fall into those categories, As I used DOS since the mid 1980's, Windows since 1990, and Linux since 1996. Try using a "soft modern" with a late 1990's Linux, you started wondering if you were configuring software, or conjuring demons...

@NiekNooijens

2 жыл бұрын

@@javabeanz8549 yeah, I jumped ship in 2008, because XP trusts everything and is therefore infected with a virus within 10 minutes and Vista was just a dumpster fire to begin with.... So I was literally pushed here out of desperation 😂😂😂

@quinten01

2 жыл бұрын

This whole series makes me realize normies shouldn't be allowed to use computers

"It's not hidden" Proceeds to Make 3-4 clicks AND enter a password prompt

@n124ajdx

2 жыл бұрын

LOL exactly

I'll call the 'hidden options' hidden. Something like that should have been asked about on first launch, not hidden away for those who know about it or take the time to explore around. You can call it preferences all day long, but when it controls access to certain things like that, aka prohibit the needed files, that's no longer optional and it's toggle being not front and center is hidden.

@gusvanwes6192

2 жыл бұрын

It should be at the bottom of a scroll list or if you can't find the app it should guide you to enable it.

@elcugo

2 жыл бұрын

No, I disagree. This option is available for those that know what they are doing and it takes five seconds to find and enable. For normal users, prompting them to enable the AUR or flat packs would be confusing and a potential vector of breaking their system.

@munthon

2 жыл бұрын

Same here as a first time manjaro user I was surprised after a month or so that there is another world of flatpaks, snaps and aur's. It should be an installation option with explanations.

@zionlee1004

2 жыл бұрын

@@elcugo Exactly

@muellerhans

2 жыл бұрын

No. Just no. We are talking about AUR packages. Arch User Repo packages. User generated content; anyone can upload anything that might be dangerous to the AUR. Most problems you ever face are with AUR packages. It is the right thing to do to not ask you on first launch whether you want packages from there. Regarding flatpak: I'm sure it's a PITA for new users when the apps don't have access to the file system.

It's not hidden, you just have to know it exists and where to find it...

@LA-MJ

2 жыл бұрын

He wants a checkmark in your face, obviously. Whether that would be reasonable is another question

@PhaythGaming

2 жыл бұрын

Idk man. A drop down menu with the ones it's pulling from would not be a crazy or bad design. Just a more mainstream one I suppose.

@enzonenation

2 жыл бұрын

When Gardiner showed the steps to find what Linus was referring to, it kinda made me understand what Linus meant by hidden. It’s not “hidden” literally speaking, but it sure isn’t intuitively located. The question is do we treat the “average user” and the “average Linux user” as separate entities? Maybe they are, but if mass adoption would ever be the goal, then they shouldn’t be treated as such. I have to add that the video was good though! Just wanted to share some thoughts

@powerfulaura5166

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, almost like any & every setting in Windows. What kind of argument is this?

@n124ajdx

2 жыл бұрын

that's exactly what hidden means, there is an easy option which is to use a pop up small windows that tell the user that there is a thing called flatpack and tell him the when he should or shouldn't enable it. this pop up should run the first time the user launch the software manager

Two things I noticed from the video (that may have been related): 1. One of the presenters mentions that Linux “doesn’t need to be rebooted” which is not really true for the desktop in reality 2. The OBS related issues suddenly working a few days later made me wonder if it was after a reboot: a kernel upgrade may have been pending (with driver modules built for the pending kernel and not the currently running one) which would also explain the lack of NVENC.

@CaffeinatedTech

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, reboot was my thought. Sometimes simply quitting and re-starting OBS fixes it too, especially audio, or video source issues. Its a pain during a stream though.

@xowishuwereherex

2 жыл бұрын

The proper quote is that when needing to restart Linux asks you BEFORE they do it and are advised if you need to restart after updates. You can hit postpone as needed and restart when YOU are ready not being forced by the operating system. Big deal compared to the I don’t care if you don’t save your work we need that telemetry and your family data approach in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

@thegardenofeatin5965

2 жыл бұрын

Linux doesn't require as many reboots as Windows does, especially older versions of windows. You don't have to reboot after every single apt upgrade, for instance. But "Linux never ever needs rebooting" is hyperbole.

@chaos.corner

2 жыл бұрын

In the early days of Linux, things were more separate and, indeed, many things could be done without a reboot. As Linux became more Windowsized, things got more entangled and it's easier to get into weird states.

@davidreynolds9649

2 жыл бұрын

There are many times when reboot is the easy way out but when you know how (or you are working on a multi user high availability server) or have to, then processes can be halted, restarted etc without a re-boot to achieve the same thing. Network interfaces and various bits of hardware can be stopped and restarted without a re-boot. Try installing and upgrading a VPS in a different country to where you are, then install, upgrade and configure a headless desktop environment to server multiple VNC users and you will soon learn a few ways to get stuff done without a re-boot. I'm not saying it is for the average noob, just saying it can be done.

What kind of madness did Lunix users live in? That someone would ever type the words "You don't need mp3" is a concept that's as monstrous as it is alien to me

@mecrumbly429___4

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, Linux user here. I'm doing just fine. How are you?

@daxvena

2 жыл бұрын

Context is important here. MP3 support on Linux was a legal problem, not a technical limitation. Any distros that shipped with MP3 support without paying royalties to the patent holders would risk facing legal repercussions. The only reason why this isn't a problem now is because the patents have expired.

@n124ajdx

2 жыл бұрын

that's extreme elitism

@barrdack

2 жыл бұрын

@@daxvena Thank you, if I didn't read your comment I would have thought it is just a impersonation of Richard Stallman

@TANMAN9095

2 жыл бұрын

Ever heard of flac?

i hate the lack of a gui for pulse config . sample rates should be under an advanced tab in the audio settings in any DE

@thanqol

2 жыл бұрын

I don't really understand this issue. Can't you just set OBS to work with 44.1K sample rate?

@Daktyl198

2 жыл бұрын

@@thanqol You can, but the problem is more accurately caused by the fact that Linus and Luke are probably used to using 48kHz sample rates on their audio devices on Windows, and thus use that in their OBS settings. Pulse is in the wrong for not choosing the best audio sample size available to the hardware. Also, if you don't know that the sample rate is causing the issue, how would you know to change the OBS settings? Pipewire is, in theory, going to fix all of this but the current confusion around it is too much for me.

@Kidsnd274

2 жыл бұрын

@@thanqol I'm not sure what the issue is but Luke had his set to 44.1 kHz, it was shown in the video. I think it has something to do with his mic being at 48 kHz.

@ethan-fel

2 жыл бұрын

indeed

@Daktyl198

2 жыл бұрын

@cgwworldministries I don't know what you mean by "make sound shittier". As for Pipewire, it doesn't support all use cases and it *definitely* doesn't support all applications that use audio. Even with pipewire-pulse, it doesn't interface nicely with everything. It's not a drop in replacement. And what's worse is that many distros (including Arch I've found) do not properly set up the metadata on the packages so that it fully uninstalls pulseaudio if you install pipewire-pulse, which leads to *completely* broken audio setups.

Manjaro could possibly done something like make a fake apt executable that will output something like "Use pacman, you dummy! Manjaro does not use apt." or something more polite whenever someone decided to type in "apt-get [something something...]"

@link1565V2

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's really not that hard to implement user friendly features like this.

@medved0000m

2 жыл бұрын

This sounds like overkill. Adding protection from deleting whole desktop environment is a good thing, but this problem is like trying to use optical discs from playstation on a pc. Manjaro greets user with a welcome screen which points them to the documentation. Reading through that documentation to learn how to manage packages is a much better idea than adding bloat to the shell

@xiujk71

2 жыл бұрын

@@medved0000m learning windows and mac definitely doesnt need manual. dabbed with linux mint for years and made full switch few months back, never once touched the manual. imo user/beginner friendly OSes, the manual will only be used for extremely exotic stuffs, stepping into the territory of a power user.

@medved0000m

2 жыл бұрын

@@xiujk71 pacman and apt-get are terminal programs, not OSes. They are not extremely exotic, but still complicated enough to require reading through manual. I doubt you can use windows CMD or PowerShell without reading through some sort of documentation or manual. Also whether learning windows or Mac requires a manual is not for you to decide. Some users, especially older people or not tech-savy ones, will definitely require manuals or video tutorials.

@xiujk71

2 жыл бұрын

@@medved0000m i agree with the pacman and apt-get, though I didn't say anything about it. Its just clearly Linus's overconfidence and lack of knowledge that resulted it. and with the manual, if the said person does not have enough experiences with any desktop OSes where he/she does not have to think (already so used to it that its subconscious), then yes, a manual or having someone to guide, will be required. however for someone as tech-savy as Linus, there should be no need for a manual on a user-friendly/beginner friendly distro. Some form of trial and error that does not involve bricking his install like what Linus did when he installed steam, is not fine. If the OS is indeed user-friendly, his experience should be similar to Luke.

Linus nails the "know just enough to be dangerous." Coming from a command line Debian machine, my adventures in Linux Mint were immediately destructive because I underestimated how "user-friendly" the system is designed to be (and therefore wasn't designed to be used through bash.)

@alenasenie6928

2 жыл бұрын

He knows enough to be a little dangerous, but he is far from real dangerous, that is when you know how to change configs manually and start messing around with daemons, fstab and other parts that can potentially prevent you from booting up at all, thankfully is just a little step from there to know how to fix those things when you mess up.

@alenasenie6928

2 жыл бұрын

What, it isn't designed to be used with cli? I would always recommend solus as the most user friendly os I have tried, because it has all the gui and has an intuitive use of it's package manager, but I really thought cinnamon was the second best choice, and the one that uses pantheon the third one (for familiarity of the default DE for mac users) but I was under the impression that all of them worked just fine mixing use of the gui and the cli

@JayMaverick

2 жыл бұрын

@@alenasenie6928 so in my particular case I kept using apt-get for updating and upgrading packages from the CLI, as I had done before on Debian. Worked fine for a while, but then some unwanted packages were updated or something and pretty much crapified my Linux Mint system. The solution was to use the GUI system updater, because it separated package updates according to risk, and was much more careful in updating high-risk packages. A minor oversight from OS design perspective, and probably a very niche problem to run into, but still. Never ran into this situation when using Debian without the desktop. My point is, it was me knowing exactly too much to be dangerous, but not knowing enough to understand. Eventually I started getting in tune with how "user-friendly" Cinnamon is supposed to be and just dealt with it. I'm learning Manjaro now, I feel much more comfortable with a system that expects me to work under the hood.

@florianfelix8295

2 жыл бұрын

There is an actual lack of systems that are „usable“ an the base level but not user hostile :/

@TheSaNdMaN5000

2 жыл бұрын

I would have also underestimated how "user-friendly" Linux is if the package manager literally killed my PC when I just wanted to download steam

I'm happy to see the Linux community understanding that Linus' challenge is from a complete noob point of view. Congrats on everyone, let's make Linux even better

@flipflopski2951

2 жыл бұрын

If you think Linus is a noob that I have a bridge you might be interested in. The truth is that fake drama and clickbait are what fuels his channel and if you can't see that you need to look a little harder and stop being so gullible.

@AJ-po6up

2 жыл бұрын

Not everyone gets it but at least Bryant does.

@quatjohn4375

2 жыл бұрын

@@flipflopski2951 While it is true that drama makes clickbait videos I don’t think his Linux challenge would sway one way or the other whether he shows it as easy or hard. If he makes it seem easy it can easily be a beginners guide to Linux which I think could draw just as many hits. He could even show things that are easier to do in Linux

@qwerasdfhjkio

2 жыл бұрын

@@flipflopski2951 bruh he never used linux before why do you expect him to be an expert in everything regarding tech...

@qwerasdfhjkio

2 жыл бұрын

@Vikram 🤦‍♂️ he used Linux to do a video with Anthony watching his shoulder 🤦‍♂️ he never used Linux as a daily driver, don't act like you knew everything when you started using Linux and get off your high horse

I think most problems come from "well you just need to know that X". People should not need to know how git works to have a nice way to get a script. People should not need to learn how shell works to try to do simple desktop tasks. If you want to Linux grow beyond the niche it goes after those things should be "error handled" by the user experience in the distro.

@tookaysevon

2 жыл бұрын

Or maybe computer literacy should be taught in schools, the same way we teach reading and writing.

@user-wj1ru2xn6q

2 жыл бұрын

@@tookaysevon well being computer literate didn't help Linus.

@AgentDexter47

2 жыл бұрын

@@tookaysevon Linus is in the industry for more than a decade, having experienced both windows and mac, tweaked BIOS settings, set up RAID arrays and so on. He is more computer literate than at least 90% of population.

@daveblueballz6659

2 жыл бұрын

you literally need to know how git works to install one in windows too and there are literally distros that does everything you need without shell bud the real niche is due to slow minded people like you

@BattousaiHBr

2 жыл бұрын

@@tookaysevon that's extremely foolish to say. you need to think like a smartphone developer. iOS and android (mostly) nailed the user experience. think to yourself for a moment, if you gave aunt Jenna an iphone, a windows PC and a linux PC, how would you score these from 1 to 10 for frequency that she'd call for your help on how to use the damn thing?

If LTT in the ends decide to do a "Linux enthusiasts reaction video" I wish the "panel" would be you, Anthony and Wendell. I love the videos of a lot more Linux-enthusiasts but you three are the ones I find the most well-balanced.

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

Whereas I wished they'd been added to the end of every episode (with L & L having access to it), so the series would be genuinely informative and educational rather than merely "Reality TV". The format they're using (especially blaming Linux for every hindrance encountered regardless of legitimacy) simply paints an fairly negative impression of Linux in viewers mind's. I'm concerned that a post-series review would seem to a large number of LTT regulars as pandering to Linux community as an opinion would already have been formed and reinforced. If they're intertwined with the series, it'd maintain a balanced view.

@trofosila

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrispyNut In my opinion, after the LTT ends this chapter, a lot of "Here's my take on Gaming on Linux" will pop-up with people doing fresh installs of "normal" distributions like Fedora, Ubuntu or Manjaro and demonstrating how smoothly everything works, They will all probably mention that running Linux implies taking some time to self-educate about the OS. Really far from me the idea that Linux is for elites, but also I don't belive open source contributors have an obligation to teach all new-comers about common issues (that already have dedicated guides for all distros). Now both Luke and Linus seem to be pretty enthusiastic about SteamOS without realizing it's an immutable OS just like Andoroid, iOS, Xbox or Playstation :)

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@@trofosila Sure. It's made me chuckle with people defending LTT and backing them up that "people want something that "just works"", having spent decades myself having that debate with console gamers and why I believe PC is worth the extra hassle. I'm quite sure those same Windows users also have those debates, arguing the same points... but now that they're arguing the opposite side, but for the same platform 😀

@brianoldziewski7588

2 жыл бұрын

I like the "you, Anthony and Wendell" idea. Get together and make a Linux podcast! (If only it were that easy, but would be the perfect panel)

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@@brianoldziewski7588 "perfect panel"? How about some folks from the appropriate dev teams (if only to see them squirm)?!? E2A: Especially whoever was meant to be testing that steam package, who I'm sure will now be one of the most responsible test/maintainers.

Linus is kind of giving you the perspective of someone that uses PC's daily but arent 100% software literate. They know their way around a pc to use steam, but probably don't bother to go further than skin deep, even in windows. While I feel Linus knows more, he seems to be playing into that role intentionally. Going into preferences and activating the AUR in that app is something most users would not even know they should do. They might wander into preferences, but most of the time they wont think to even configure it. Most people run bone stock on everything.

@personaltestenvironment834

2 жыл бұрын

"Most people run bone stock on everything.". I think this a problem with the way most people are trained. We know that scientists, artists, etc. that make breakthroughs in their area are usually people that go way beyond "bone stock", however, we actively reject those who dare going beyond, and in the process, we reject going beyond ourselves...

@stroodlepup

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@dassive_mick4271

2 жыл бұрын

@@personaltestenvironment834 bro people are just trying to use their computers they shouldn't have to look deep in their settings in order to get basic functions

@zombieguy

2 жыл бұрын

It's 100% something most users would never know or want to do. A simple flip switch on the top bar labelled third party would solve the issue, and even improve it's day to day usage for people who know there way around it. UX always feels like something lacking on most distros.

@sociallyferal4237

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree. My brothers are sooo not tech savvy and only uses their machines for gaming, facebook and browsing pretty much. They would not go into a preferences or settings panel without being told to. And if the App manager is meant to have all your apps, they wouldn't check for 3rd party repositories. General people familiar with Apples AppStore, Googles Playstore, Windows Appstore are not likely to be looking in settings to see if there is a different store to 'buy' from. They're trained by their other devices that what you see is what you get.

As a developer, I love Linux. I work with it all the time on the server. I avoid Linux on the desktop (not including VMs). I spend enough time fighting esoteric software issues, I don't need to spend any time fiddling around with the OS as well on my downtime. I would only use Linux on the desktop on purpose built systems like a System76 machine. Even then, I stick to Windows for gaming because I don't want to spend any more time jumping through hoops just to play games.

@kvin9210

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you both for highlighting the issues with Linux. I know some Linux fans will hate people for using windows but honestly that's what normal people like using and they just want to get work done or play games.

@KastanDay

2 жыл бұрын

+1 A million times this. I'll pay any amount of money to not fight esoteric software issues when I'm off the clock.

@blueshift9

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. I have a Dell Dev Edition XPS with Ubuntu installed from my company as a web dev machine. I have had it a year, and it has been rock solid. I don't consider myself all that knowledgeable with Linux - basically enough to know what I need to. Any time I have tried to use Linux more for home use, THAT is when things get dicey. On my home machines, I have one that I do dev work in my free time on, but even then I have found WSL2 decent enough to work with that I just stick with Windows in that case.

@HurstAudio

2 жыл бұрын

Of course, because Linux on the desktop is absolutely ridiculous. Servers and nothing else. But you'll never get through to people like this.

@ycombine1053

Жыл бұрын

I'm in a similar situation. I'm an experienced software engineer, and I enjoy tinkering, but not at the expense of actually getting things done. That being said, I daily drive POP!_OS on a beefy Ryzen machine with no issues. In fact, I find Linux to be a superior experience than windows for most software development use cases (unless you're doing .NET 4.5 or something). And like you I stick to windows for my gaming machine for obvious reasons.

"now his first instinct is to go to the terminal and install stuff" ...Yeah. Because everybody yelled at him and called him an idiot for not going to the terminal to do stuff, because it's supposedly much easier. Now you are saying "why would he go to the terminal?" Literally can never win. Also add and remove software is horrible.

@MarceldeJong

2 жыл бұрын

Well it was his decision to run an Arch based distro. Then he should read up a bit how software installations on those types of distros are done. Apt-get is Debian based. You don’t try to install a MacOS package on a Windows machine either and complain that it didn’t work.

@DerrangedGadgeteer

2 жыл бұрын

@@MarceldeJong I dunno... I wouldn't complain that a Mac application didn't run on Windows. But I would feel quite indignant if my windows 10 software just didn't work at all on Windows 11. Which I think is a better analogy. (I remember back in the day being frustrated that my windows 95 software didn't work on windows NT, even when they were both concurrently developed.)

@DMitsukirules

2 жыл бұрын

@@MarceldeJong Yes, a layperson might. People also get software specifically for certain things. You think people wouldn't complain if they couldn't install gmail on an ipad? More importantly, the fact that you are actually trying to explain to me "how it works" as part of your defense just shows me the situation will never improve. You think I don't know apt-get is debian based? Just keep making excuses for poor user experiences. Nobody is going to go read manuals on how to use an OS. I never did, unless I was specifically programming for it. If you go get OSX right, or iOS, or Android, it will attempt to teach you how to use it by itself, and not count on the fact you find some good source on the internet of how it works.

@HurstAudio

2 жыл бұрын

And because every distro is different with a million different factors, literally no one can provide support, so nothing gets fixed.

@claimd1025

2 жыл бұрын

"Also add and remove software is horrible." - true, how am I supposed to know what optional stuff I may need if you don't tell me what they do?!

I just hope that this Videos rise awareness of the bad software support on Linux. Most of the Problems Linus has, could be fixed if companies gave the same attention to Linux as they do to Windows. I wouldn't even mind if the software (or drivers!) were closed source, I just wish some things would "just work" on Linux

@kjeldgaard0

2 жыл бұрын

@Jack Django If only manufacturers would release all technical info of the devices we pay for, they can keep their crappy proprietary software.

@erwinamanciosilva7693

2 жыл бұрын

@Jack Django and thats one of the reason you still on a OS who is viewed as third rate compared to others, and keep stuck on 5% users world wide, is linux really free if you have to enforce it? Do everyone is obligated to comply to develop anything on it? Linux is left to dust by peripheral and hardware companies ,all it matter is for really specific advanced stuff, like servers and research, and the thing is peripherals/device companies make things for the masses, advanced IT stuff has its own separate market, so to support masses devices we need support of companies that develop for the masses, and for that to happen we need linux to be for the masses too, linix community suffer from communism utopia, its a freedom thats not really free lol, cause you are enforced to accept it or be left out lol, like not every developer want to live from donations and patreon you know, they want to proper sell their products, i woild never develop anything to linix if i had to share everything by force of rule, i thought freedom was people sharing things from their own free will, companies are not indie devs ok, they have to make receipt, continue demanding sharing everything that even hundred years of linux developing wont bring it any close to mac os and windows in hardware support.

@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV

2 жыл бұрын

@gilkesisking and the MacOS kernel _is_ open source.

@reezlaw

2 жыл бұрын

@Jack Django You will always have the choice to go full FOSS if you really want to, but having more proprietary options would be acceptable if it meant having a real alternative to Windows for gaming and desktop activities. That's a monopoly that has to be broken because it hurts the market and the experience of all users. Gatekeeping is one of the factors that are preventing Linux to really explode

@fus-ro-dah

2 жыл бұрын

With how simpler it is to develop good cross-platform software these days, software vendors have no excuses. The issue is awareness. If a company isn't even aware that people DO actually use Linux, they'll only go as far as supporting Win/MacOS. Most of my colleagues used to think that Linux is just a toy OS ... I wish I was joking. I had to show them that, no, Linux is actually a powerhouse and that as a dev it makes me more productive. The Linux community needs to be known. So regardless of their experience and final opinions, the LTT crew are doing the Linux community a big service.

"It's not hidden, it's just buried deep in these menus that you have to search." That's Linus' whole... flipping.... point.

@gardiner_bryant

2 жыл бұрын

Opening the settings menu is two clicks. And then literally one click in the settings menu. It's not hidden.

@super9mega

2 жыл бұрын

Probably should ask when it first launches, or show results on a blank page or at the bottom saying "if you can't find it, try the settings and enable third party", it's just all about the experience and every hurdle is a place where a user will jump ship, I'm sure Linus would have jumped ship as soon as pop died if this was not a challenge.

@kjeldgaard0

2 жыл бұрын

@@super9mega No it shouldn't adding flatpak and snap and AUR repos is only something you do once.

@MRDaved

2 жыл бұрын

It's literally in prefrences, it's literally just self explanitory, it's not hidden

@thinboxdictator6720

2 жыл бұрын

@@super9mega the biggest problem linus have with linux (in this series) is that he treats linux like windows. linux is not windows. if it was,nobody would use it,because windows is trash.

I watch every explanation on what Linus did and why it was abviously wrong and am like how was anybody suppose to know this

@flipflopski2951

2 жыл бұрын

the same way you learned to use Windows...

@viiltelijamurhaaja7225

2 жыл бұрын

@@flipflopski2951 by asking anybody who has used computer?

@flipflopski2951

2 жыл бұрын

@@viiltelijamurhaaja7225 stick with Windows... Microsoft needs you...

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

I think this is exactly Linus' point, right?

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

You are supposed to find instructions. If Linus had scrolled down on that git page it usually displays the package readme file there. That's a good place to start.

LTT videos made me realize that 90% of my hardware was bought with Linux in mind and remember how when you buy something for a brand who suck like elgato, the hw won't work or barely.

@TagetesAlkesta

2 жыл бұрын

Basically why I avoid Nvidia GPUs. The experience with AMD is so much better that I’ll gladly trade some in-game performance for not wanting to throw my computer at a wall.

@basshead.

2 жыл бұрын

@@TagetesAlkesta Take off your tin foil hat and use Windows like every other normal person does.

@DaleonM4

2 жыл бұрын

@basshead doesnt matter cuz most people use proprietary software anyway specially if you game so no need of tin foil hat

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@@basshead. Yes, be normal, be the product that's being sold whilst having ads thrown at you. :-|

@JD-rd4pk

2 жыл бұрын

@@basshead. lmao. I guess LTT simps are searching for reactions now 🤣. Windows is great for you? Great. Keep using it. Linux is great for others. There is no tin foil hat. Just a preference. I have a preference that is different from yours. That is all. Gosh, looks like I am talking to a child 🤦‍♂️

I loved seeing your reaction to his "Save Link As..." thing. It was subtle but was 100% me when I saw it for myself.

@W1ldTangent

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know why people act like you just told them "physics is wrong, that's not how the universe works" when you explain why you can't just right-click any old link on the internet and save-as to get what you want.

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I've done exactly the same thing.

14:58 It IS "hidden", in fact. Notice how when you showed it, you had to click on that small button near the corner of the windows. It is way too out of the way for a beginner user (remember, the point of the video), and preferences is a button inside a button, metaphorically speaking. I believe this is a case where as we learn something, we forget that it's not always obvious (and I don't say this to offend, but because I'm an educator and see this happening often)

10:20 I think what he was complaining about the fact that the file was saved as a ".sh" file instead of ".html" which is stupid and I agree with Linus

@tfksworldoflinux

2 жыл бұрын

But that happens on Windows too right? Its a link to webpage. When saving it, it saves a web page.

@Daktyl198

2 жыл бұрын

@@tfksworldoflinux All browsers that I know of will save an HTML file as .html or .htm, because then that tells Windows what it is. It might save it as 'install.sh.htm' but more likely it'll just replace the .sh extension and save it as 'install.htm' Linux should do this too (to properly show filetype) but since Linux doesn't care about the file name of a file, only it's mime-type and/or contents, it doesn't bother giving user-readable hints.

@sysdrum

2 жыл бұрын

Point is Linus used github wrong. You don't right click save as on a website and expect it to pull the file down for you. If you do then you need to learn to use the internet. This is why windows users get viruses on there computers they just click things randomly.

@qwerasdfhjkio

2 жыл бұрын

@@sysdrum it's both. the file should have been saved as .HTML and linus should learn how to use a browser lol

@t_z1030

2 жыл бұрын

​@@qwerasdfhjkio He does know though, which is why he was tripped up. He's aware that a HTML page would be saved as .html (on Windows). Which is why when it saved as .sh, he believed that he was getting the shell script itself - because otherwise it would be .html right? Frankly, a regular Joe wouldn't have even got that far on Github. I'd expect them to give up on the whole thing as soon as they laid eyes on the repo.

On the Pamac thing - when Linux said "hidden", I assumed it was because snap and flatpak were not enabled by default. Linus was probably coming from the POV of "...why?" I can understand both sides of it.

@thrik

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobDevV This is absolutely the case. The Linux community is really bizarre this way - they'll say things like "we don't have money and resources to get user feedback like big companies do" but then they'll literally ignore all criticism and refuse to do simple things like you have done. It makes perfect sense to see how your friends and family do with Linux.

@rosedagger1487

2 жыл бұрын

I had the same reaction as Linus, I have been using Manjaro for 2-3 months now, I only discovered last week by accident that I could enable aur, snap and flatpack in the standard add/remove software, until then I had mostly been using command line and yay to install everything I needed. I think maybe adding a option when installing the distro to toggle if you want to enable third party support? That would at least make it more transparent that it is an option and is supported out of the box. As it is not something you nessesarely know even exists, or that it is something you should dig around in the settings to enable.

@n124ajdx

2 жыл бұрын

@@rosedagger1487 i had the same issue except that i was using Ubuntu LTS, and Ubuntu's default repo lack most of the programs i needed, so i had to go in the internet and get everything from there, because the software manager didn't tell me i can enable another repo.

@MarceldeJong

2 жыл бұрын

It’s off by default for security reasons. You need to know what you’re doing before installing a flatpak. Same with the aur. Sure everything under the sun can be found in the aur, but that also means crappy software. The danger is a little lower nowadays than a couple of years ago, but you could still install software through the aur that would completely hose your system (speaking from personal experience)

@harshsrivastava9570

2 жыл бұрын

@@MarceldeJong may i know which package it was? (wanna try it for myself lol)

Also, forgot to mention... on the "apt" thing too - think from the POV of a UX perspective. Windows users considering Linux have frequently heard of "apt-get" to install things. But most haven't heard of pacman. It's not a bad idea for the terminal to give some kind of info in that regard.

@madness1931

2 жыл бұрын

It's kind of why I think Linux needs some universal commands, that'll work on all distros. Even if it's literally a translation layer to use that distro's chosen software. So "sudo xxx instal mysoftware", would substitute the "xxx" for apt, or pacman. You'd still have the old commands, with more functionality, of course. It would be for new users, and maybe offer some "Helpful Advice", where it would teach you the correct command, along with some more advanced features.

@alexstone691

2 жыл бұрын

@@madness1931 script like that already exists 'keithieopia/piu' for example

@SvenBrettschneider

2 жыл бұрын

@@madness1931 would work as long as the packages you want to install have the same name, but with things like 'apt install build-essentials' this would not work (because ie. arch doesn't have a package called 'build-essentials"). You sadly don't fix the problem like that, just complicating things further :/

@TemporalOnline

2 жыл бұрын

I understand that, but then it should also be a team effort from both sides, debian and arch. It has a little bit of pride involved like, the arch system would have to have an apt message, as the debian system would have to have one also as a good nature gesture, it isn't even a thing that the system should care about, as the system doesn't care what package manager you use. I mean the package managers could also install escrow scrips for each other package manager that is not installed but then again, it should be a team effort without prides getting burned... in a semi competing teams effort... yeah.

@yashkale5639

2 жыл бұрын

I have Ubuntu installed on my old machine and I use it sometimes yet I heard about Pacman for the first time here in this video. I normally use windows and I was surprised to know that sudo apt get xx is not common to all distros

just lol @ linux fanboys missing the point of linus's videos. his experience will be what every casual windows user would experience if they migrated to linux. deal with it

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

I'll deal with it on my own terms.

14:38 I physically facepalmed, what do you mean not hidden!? That was actually insane, the amount of hoops to go through for something you claim is not "hidden". You should understand that they are going at this from the point of view of a normal non-linux poweruser, not a Linux developer. It would make you understand these Linux challenge videos a lot more.

@Marcus-cr5dj

2 жыл бұрын

@ThisIsMyRealNameSrs That's true, but also represents a failure in terms of UI affordance in my opinion. In general I'm glad Linus us pointing out the user experience quirks of Linux, I think the community has a problem with not attracting enough UX people to contribute. -Sorry if the first comment came off aggressive btw.

@madladdie7069

Жыл бұрын

You'll find that people with a lot of experience tend to overestimate how capable the general public is.

Linus was in fact talking about the new version of NVENC, which I believe shows up in OBS as NVENC (new).

I do respect that Linus does this through the perspective of a typical Windows user coming to Linux. I adapted easier in 2008 because I grew up with Amstrad CPC, Amiga and Atari ST, then Windows XP, so I was comfortable with or without GUIs and UXs and Terminal commands didn't bother me since I researched what things do.

I really hope the developers of distro's that want to be for the masses (Elementary, mint, Ubuntu) follow these videos. If your goal is mass adoption the. You have to bend the experience to that user.

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

No. Those people have learned "Windows", for easy switching to "Linux", then it would have to function the same way, which means rewritting EVERYTHING from scratch. The entire philosophy is different. There's a huge diversity of people, we need a huge diversity in computing to match that, not a single corporate way.

@reezlaw

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrispyNut you don't have to rewrite everything to work exactly as in windows, making what's already there more accessible and intuitive would suffice. Like enabling AUR from the main screen in Pamac, little things like that.

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@@reezlaw You don't know much about Linux at all do you? Everything's separate, different programs by different people all relying on each other. One program gets an update and it breaks dozens or hundreds of other programs, some of which may no longer be maintained anymore and need to be forked and/or picked up by someone else and patched to work with the updated other program. There's no single unifying "lead" dictating how things should look/function as is the case in Windows/Mac. There is no "Linux OS", the closest is GNU/Linux, the kernel and a few core utilities (no GUI, just some tools to build other pieces of software). A "Distro" is a collection of thousands of separate pieces of software (maintained by hundreds of separate people/groups). As for "intuitive", Windows isn't intuitive, it only seems that way because people have spent years learning how M$ does things. Sit down next to someone using a windows computer for the first time (or find a video of it) and see how well they do with no prior knowledge about anything. "Linux" is far, FAR more accessible than Windows, it's just that most people are used to Windows, so Linux seems strange. To those who've exclusively used Linux for years, Windows is strange, awkward and unintuitive. If Linux had kist a 10th the revenue stream that Windows does and a 10th the industry support it would demolish Windows in the Desktop space, the way it's done (almost) literally everywhere else!

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@Angelo Vetores How bout no!

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, If the Linux community wants to keep up with their philosophy of serving diverse interests, it would be great if at least One distro were ready for prime time, and not just Beta software aimed at a small group of users who are "in the know." I am not sure yet, but I think this is what System 76 has in mind, given what we know of their plans to rebuild the Cosmic DE in Rust. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

14:59 "i dont think it's hidden, it's in the preferences menu" *6 clicks and a password entry later*

"should be a pretty easy task" *literally 45 seconds later* "oh that's not gonna be easy at all, probably just use your phone for that"

@reezlaw

2 жыл бұрын

Those two sentences were about 2 different things

I get your point about APT not being installed, but from the mind of a new user, something as basic as APT/PACMAN and the like could be hinted by the OS' included terminal. A message saying APT is the package manager for Debian based systems, you are currently using an Arch based system which uses pacman as package manager. If not installed ask if want to install it. Or something like that. It doesn't take much effort to do. We are talking about Linux being more friendly with new users. I also understand the "hidden button" part. As a new user if it wasn't because I followed tutorials and read articles, I wouldn't know what the button does or where to find it. I think Linux is great and has most of the things Linux core users need covered. Now, core Linux users are mostly irrelevant, to attract new users we need to think like new users and care about their needs. It's the only way.

@super9mega

2 жыл бұрын

Even as a long term user, being able to sit down at a distro that I have never used and get a helpful message about 1) which package manager they are using 2) maybe an example on how to do what I was trying to do 3) let me know something is wrong other than "nope, not it boss" It would be maybe 30 minutes and a few kb of code, and it would be super helpful for new and old users alike

@SephirothTNH

2 жыл бұрын

My gut reaction was that linus was being unreasonable and using an arch based distro he should do his homework before typing into the terminal. But then I thought about it. Manjaro bills itself as a "suitable for newcomers" so they should plan for this eventuality. So much linux help on the internet is still ubuntu focused; users are going to try to apt something in manjaro.

@alexlowe2054

2 жыл бұрын

@@super9mega Agreed. As a developer, I can't count the number of times it would have been helpful to have a simple, polite, informative error message if your distro doesn't use apt-get, and suggesting a replacemnet. This would have saved me hours of time. It's well worth the few kb it would take to make this standard on every distro. Traditionally, this issue happens to me when I pull down a Docker image. Lots of images don't have basic tools like curl, so I'm out of luck of apt-get isn't installed. Trying to figure out which package manager the image has is an annoying waste of time. The top Stack Overflow answer for this problem says "The joy of Linux is that it is so flexible, so you should ask whoever gave you the software." Which is the least possible answer when I've got an arbitrary docker image with little to no documentation. It would be nice if the distro maintainers would make things just a bit more user friendly.

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexlowe2054 I wish there were more people like you in the Linux community, talking about these things.

I tried to make the switch as well, and ran into similar frustrations as Linus. It felt like I had to build my rig around Linux, rather than using what I had. For example I was used to having a dual monitor set up, one 4k and the other a 1440p/144hz for gaming. I ran into a lot of problems getting fractional scaling to work on the 4k monitor (my preference is for 125%), and even when I did, I couldn’t figure out how to treat them independently. I’m not going to shit on things that just don’t work like RTX, or games that rely on anticheat. But really the smaller things is what made me give up, despite really really enjoying PopOS (especially the tiling system). Not being able to easily configure my mouse and keyboard, not having a reliable way to control my Hue lights, poor support for wireless controllers, and screenshare not working out of the box are just really frustrating. I simpatize with desktop Linux, I donated to PopOS and ElementaryOS, but really in my home rig I just want things to work rather than going to google expeditions any time something breaks or doesn’t work out of the box.

@silhoubow9379

2 жыл бұрын

100% agree, i tried also linux desktops, but this system fiels so unstable... maybe if you have just processor, memory, ssd, motherboard, simple keyboard and mouse, and one monitor, then maybe it looks like "rock solid", but otherwise it really isnt. Once i had linux mint installed (really on ssd, not vm or live usb) and i had to turn my pc on and print one document, when i turned it on, it just sayd something like "your cinnamon desktop failed to load"... How to trust these systems, when you cant even do simple things. For windows 8-11 i cant comment about stability, but windows 7 didnt had any similar problems for me over a decade now.

@HurstAudio

2 жыл бұрын

It is because Linux is still in beta. There's a reason it is recommended to not use beta versions of Windows too, you know.......

@tldr365

2 жыл бұрын

@@HurstAudio its forever in beta. Guess no one should be using it.

@HurstAudio

2 жыл бұрын

@@tldr365 nah, you're gonna have to try harder on that one, unless you meant linux is constantly in beta, in which case I agree. Can't say I've had any problems getting hardware or software to work of any sort in Windows. Linux is an entirely different story. But of course, a die hard Linux user has to tend their wounds some how right, so it makes sense you'd say that. Especially when it comes to accessibility hardware and software. And yes, I'd know since I've used Linux off and on since 2005 and just couldn't deal with things that should just plain work like they do under Windows. Like it or not, that's the way it is. For a toy and a hobby, go head and eat your heart out, fine no problem. But for literally anything else, Windows all the way.

Oh, Linus, such a sweet, innocent child. He has yet to experience the true horror of installing Broadcom drivers yet.

@MJ-uk6lu

2 жыл бұрын

Or an actual discrete sound card

@enderger5308

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, yes. Downloading WiFi drivers over WiFi is fun (I have an external dongle just in case).

@DakalaShade

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, geez. I'd managed to forget that until just now. I thought my worst experiences were either getting the DVD drive to play DVDs under Ubuntu 8.04, or trying to use a USB flash drive in Windows ME-era Open SUSE (which, due to my inexperience, obliterated the OS, wiped both the OS drive and the USB stick, and left me wondering, still to this day, how on Earth I did that.) And then I wonder why every few years, I think "Maybe I'll try out Linux again."

@MpSniperM1911

2 жыл бұрын

i returned a wifi card because of this, also it wasn't fast enough or my expectations were too high.

@dm2060

2 жыл бұрын

Why must you give me PTSD

If you don't already know where to go to find that option, it's hidden. For someone who doesn't know windows and they want to get into appdata for whatever reason and they have multiple clicks to reveal it, it's hidden. Now, typically appdata is hidden by default for good reason, but for what Linus needs it sounds like it should be either enabled by default or far more out in the open. K.I.S.S.

@Warhammerdude299

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, just finished the video. Initially you don't come across as elitist in the video. But hammering the point in comments when people are telling you otherwise very much does come across as elitist.

@yashkale5639

2 жыл бұрын

Very true

@SephirothTNH

2 жыл бұрын

I don't consider a clearly marked setting in the applications own clearly marked settings menu to be hidden. If that's hidden then every setting in every app that isn't a user facing radio button on the main screen is hidden. Which would be the vast majority of app settings ever.

@Warhammerdude299

2 жыл бұрын

@@SephirothTNH Yes. That is exactly the point. And if you don't have the foreknowledge, you can't fault the user who is new. I don't fault the users of my client base in an office who don't know that to enable finding other computers on the network, they have to actually click on the message that comes up in file explorer. Or even sometimes after that, the list doesn't fully populate and you have to type in the UPN or ip address into the address bar. Or options in the office suite that those users don't know if they should mess with or what specifically in those settings menus might fix their problem. Excel is running slowly? Disable hardware acceleration. If I got up on them about not knowing that, I'd quickly be out of a job.

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

Snap and Flatpak are W.I.P technologies, they shouldn't be enabled by default because they're a lot of trouble. If you know what you're getting into with them, then you know how to enable them. Complain to LTT for not adding information from people who know Linux, don't complain that Linux isn't the strawman it's being made out to be.

I love how all the Linux super users fail to get the point of this video. they all think that if they explain the issue they are solving the larger problem. What they miss is that Linux will never be main stream as long as these highly technical solutions are needed. Normies will never adopt an operating system that requires this level of technical knowledge.

@nigratruo

2 жыл бұрын

No, we Linux users actually get it: there are some things that need fixing and Linux is already mainstream actually, Linus using it proves it, Valve using it for the Steam Deck also. Linux is not perfect, but unlike the annoying problems that Windows has (update system is a gigantic disgusting slow f**** mess), Linux is improving and is listening, that is the reason why it is spreading and being used in more and more places in the world than every before. Openly discussing what needs to get fixed is important, I don't excuse the problems that Linux has, I want to solve them.I'm not a Unix admin, Unix is dead, it died for exactly the lack of usability that Linux excels at, it is rapidly improving. A lot of people watched the video of Linus about Linux and these are the people that can and will fix it. The open criticism is exactly the way to solve this.

@mcpa0701

2 жыл бұрын

@@nigratruo Linux main stream, LOL. Get out of your bubble, mate. I could walk down my street and ask everyone in my neighborhood if they have even heard of Linux, and I might get lucky and find 1 or 2 people who have heard of it. It's miles and miles from main stream. I don't hate Linux and I hope these issues get fixed and it becomes user friendly. But calling it main stream is quit literally laughable.

@debestcanadian

2 жыл бұрын

@@nigratruo There is a massive chasm between desktop Linux and "mainstream". The thing that is revolutionary about Linux (the fact that it is free) is what will keep it forever on the fringe, suitable only for enthusiasts. One aspect of "free" is freedom. Because no one can control Linux, there will always be a splintering of endless versions with incompatibilities. Different package managers, desktop environments, etc etc. To have any chance at a polished, mature experience, there has to be at least some consistency and stability, and the freedom of open-source software guarantees there never will be. Someone (for better or worse) has to be able to steer the ship, and by its nature Linux cannot be steered. The other aspect of "free" means Linux desktop end users generally don't pay a dime for their OS. And this lack of revenue for the folks who create the OS makes a huge difference compared to Microsoft and Apple. Developers who choose to work on Linux want to create interesting code that they will feel satisfied for having worked on it. Few choose to volunteer for the boring, tedious work of intuitive consistent user interfaces, minor bug fixes, comprehensive testing, and other not-fun tasks that a revenue-generating company can assign to people who are paid to do these tasks. And through these paid employees, these companies have the ability to (at least attempt to) direct all the development work toward a singular, more "complete" vision of what the OS should be, instead of thousands of different visions that are often at odds with each other. And those issues don't even touch upon the clearly 2nd rate status that Linux holds with hardware and software vendors. There just aren't nearly enough Linux desktop users to warrant these companies to pay attention to (and to invest resources into) supporting compatibility with Linux into their products. Growing the user base has to happen first, and without 3rd party support that will always be difficult (chicken and egg problem). I've been around desktop Linux since the 90s. I've seen a quarter-century of "This is the year of Desktop Linux" predictions, and today they're just as wrong now as they always have been. Perhaps even further than ever, given how the market for general-purpose PCs is shrinking except for gamers and corporate usage (and those are both markets that Linux is particularly disadvantaged compared to Microsoft and even Apple). For certain people like you and me, it works and that's great for us. But it will never be remotely "mainstream".

@bobberry1463

Жыл бұрын

@@nigratruo people been using Linux for their products for years it been the norm. Because it the only option.

@MasterMooper

Жыл бұрын

When did he say he was solving a whole industry? He was giving advice for new users. Yes, Linux is mainstream and the steam deck + android devices using it is proof of that. Ridiculing someone or an OS isn't going to trick anyone.. (well, except for the 8 people who liked ur comment LOL)

I honestly laughed a bit when you went on about the "not hidden" button then proceeded to go through half a dozen clicks to enable it. That was his point. Is Linus nitpicking? Maybe, but I don't think it's out of malice. I think that what he finds to be issues are mounting enough so that every thing that's not working as expected just feels that more blatant. Is going through the preferences an arcane task? Not at all, but if you're used to other operating systems (specially mobile ones), you're used to the "store" just working to install whatever it is that you want to install for your OS/Device.

@gardiner_bryant

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, by that token it would be fair to call most settings in settings menu "hidden".

@altrogeruvah

2 жыл бұрын

​@@gardiner_bryant I think OP's argument is regarding Linux users who claim "it's literally right there" while clicking in 4-5 submenus to get there. It's a well-intended point that shows Linux's non-user-friendly UX, especially for prospective entry level users.

@lesterdarke

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant I guess for me and you the hamburger menu is a pretty standard design que for finding everything. But maybe for some it's not as obvious as seeing say a cog icon. Plus the number of sub menus could deffo be decreased.

@muffininacup4060

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, its hard to say that its hidden when its literally there in the settings, do you expect a flashing red button in the middle of the store?. 'Half a dozen of clicks' is 6 and is pretty much the number of clicks one has to do to connect to wifi on an iphone, which is usually considered the pinnacle of being user friendly.

@CoreyKearney

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant well, they are. Most casual users of any system, just accept the defaults. Do you have any idea how many windows machines I've sat down at that have the default wallpaper still? Most people treat their computer like an appliance.

I think the "hidden" setting refers to how you need to go to settings and enable something that a non-enthusiast wouldn't want disabled anyway. For a more general user, it's a seemingly core function removed from the main screen.

@LA-MJ

2 жыл бұрын

It's hidden for a reason. It needs to be to protect n00bs from apt-getting themselves into trouble with a random AUR package

@ShinareAeruil

2 жыл бұрын

@@LA-MJ Then this should probably be communicated better, it doesn't really degrade anyone's experience for having a small warning text in the menu explaining why it is off by default. And unlike with command line tools, it doesn't even need a dedicated program/script to display.

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

Is it possible that the "more general user" is wrong? And the people with more experience are right? Nah. That's crazy talk!

@ShinareAeruil

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, only that there is room for improvement if the relevant information is not communicated properly. Especially if it would only take one short line of text like "Warning, these packages may cause stability issues" or "These settings may compromise system stability". If I remember correctly, they already had their own preferences tab with lots of empty space.

I really liked how you pulled up what they were talking about trying to figure out what their problems where on camera and explaining things like that. I think that kind of commentary would be really helpful to newer Linux users and it's a good refresher for us vets who may not have used Arch/Majaro/ for a while.

Your take on Linus' struggles has been very instructive for me. I totally get where Linus is coming from. He makes all the same assumptions I do in similar situations with Linux. I get pretty much the same results as he does, as well. I'm beginning to discover that it isn't only a question of being new to Linux and needing to learn more, but also that some things just don't work in Linux, and that when solutions are available, finding and implementing them are often unnecessarily convoluted and time-wastingly esoteric. This gives me pause. Your explanations of what is going on, are very helpful. They provide some insight into how Linux works. (or doesn't) It's almost as if Linux were designed to make people go down rabbit holes. When this happens to me, I get transported back to the 1980s when the term "user friendly" had not been invented yet. How long do you figure Linux will be stuck in the '80s? I really enjoy your videos, BTW. I always learn a ton.

@alexlowe2054

2 жыл бұрын

Developer and gamer reporting in. Honestly? I don't ever think this will change. Unix was written by highly technical engineers in a tight-knit team working with esoteric hardware in Bell Labs. Dennis Richie himself said that the vision for Unix included "a good environment in which to do programming". It was written by programmers for programmers. Trying to force unix to become a user friendly desktop OS is an effort doomed to failure. I don't think there's anything that can be done to salvage the Linux user model. It comes from a completely different time. Arcane two letter commands everywhere, inconsistently named single letter flags used for even basic functionality of built-in commands, every setting being part of a config file that requires you to already have memorized specific config syntax, and bitwise flags for even basic stuff like permission management. To redesign Linux to be user friendly, you'd need to do what Apple did and rewrite every program that interfaces with the user, and completely change the user model to drop all the Linux-isms. Which isn't something that will happen for a few reasons. The biggest roadblock to a complete redesign is the community, which is predominantly developers who already learned Linux because it's where a large chunk of the world's development work is done. Those people are badly equipped to perform user testing, and they'll be generally opposed to making changes to their amazing programming environment. Can you imagine a Linux user saying they should imitate OSX and never have the user pay attention to the security flags? I can't. There's a definite haughtiness to the Linux community, in a way that doesn't exist broadly in the Windows community. The average help article written for Windows assumes the person has almost zero experience with computers, so it's friendly and helpful. That's a pretty stark contrast to the average Linux article, which floats between overly technical, not enough explanations to understand how/why things work, or downright rude, as seen in the help article Linus found. The final nail in the coffin for desktop Linux is the lack of resources. Even if developers were willing to invest in desktop Linux, Microsoft and Apple can afford to pay for way more full time user testers and developers. The lack of resources is an even bigger problem because Mac OSX exists. It's POSIX compliant, which means there's little reason to waste years of your life contributing to creating a smooth user experience when you can just buy and use Apple products instead and spend your time building cool developer tools. Windows is also becoming POSIX compliant, which kills another reason to use desktop Linux. Linux on Windows is still in a beta stage now, but I'd expect Microsoft can pay enough developers to make Windows fully compatible with Linux developer tools before the Linux community can pool enough support from unpaid contributors to make desktop Linux a nice experience. With that functionality, what reason will there be to run desktop Linux, besides hate for large companies? Hate isn't enough to keep a complex engineering project alive and healthy. It's obvious that Valve is having a positive effect on Linux, but I don't think it's enough. Valve is only pushing Linux because they faced an existential threat to their existence, and I think that threat has passed. Valve has a general lack of commitment to long term projects. I'm skeptical that Valve will change the course of desktop Linux. They're having an effect, but I think it's just delaying the inevitable.

@colto2312

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexlowe2054 dddaaaang; good post

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexlowe2054 Wow, I actually suspected some of this, but this is worse than I imagined, if you are right. Unfortunately, a significant number of the Linux community spend considerable energy trying to convince Windows users how much better Linux is, as a daily driver, than Windows. Now you are telling me that this is mostly wishful thinking. And yes, disaffection with MS & Apple are a definite and strong motivator, especially with Windows 11 coming out. At this point, I'm, more willing to be a beta tester for Linux than to deal with that half/alpha half old crap that hasn't been fixed yet, private data piracy model that is Windows 11. It seems that people who just want a computer to use to pursue their work and interests have nowhere, really to turn. That is sad.

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

The 80s rocked. I'f go back there so fast it'd make your head spin clean off.

@Daniel_WR_Hart

28 күн бұрын

@@chuctanundaspiderbone5407 2 years later, and Windows 11's Total Recall got hacked lol

I think flatpacks and snaps being hidden is a ease of access issue, could be improved easily with a dedicated button on the main menu of pack manager.

Nah Gardinder, you were very fair and level-headed in your reactions mate, you called it when Linus was wrong and when Linux was at fault in my opinion perfectly.

@AndersHass

2 жыл бұрын

Basically only one time, lol

@greatbeavers9418

2 жыл бұрын

At first I thought it was Linus vs Luke like in a duel. Then I realized that was spelled Linux.

@AndersHass

2 жыл бұрын

@@greatbeavers9418 kinda is since if one of them drops out of the challenge they will get a punishment

If you're wondering why Part 3 and Part 4 got shifted around, Linus mentioned in the WAN show that he was busy and didn't have enough time to install all the launchers.

Still find it funny that there are people out there saying we need to just ditch Windows and go full on Linux. Cause it is not that hard to use........... Well if one of the comments on Linux is "yeah sometimes , something just stop working or start working randomly" then that is enough for me to stay away XD

@SnowTheParrot

8 ай бұрын

Yeah no one thinks that we should ditch Windows rn. People try to sway people away from Windows for philosophical reasons. Linux is FOSS, which is a great movement. But in reality, Linux isnt ready for non-technical people, and most of the world are non-technical.

i'm a linux enthusiast, although i primarily use windows, so i'm not here as a linux newbie or anything. i'm just an LTT fan who's interested in seeing how Linus fares during this challenge. that said, i watched several other reaction videos to part 1 of the challenge, and yours was by far the most neutral, unbiased and non-condescending take. thankful to see you continuing on that track. subscribed looking forward to the rest of the series.

Lol, at the end of this video when Gardiner keeps saying 'when I first started using Linux', sounds funny to me. Here you go: 'when I first started using Linux' it took me 30 hours to download over a 28.8k modem and over 100 hours to get running (text mode only --- I think it was version 0.14 or something like that), because I had to write my own driver for it on an old Gateway 2000 Pentium system!!! :)

"it's not hidden, you just have to-" Lists five or six steps you have to do to find it including entering a password. The lack of self awareness is mind boggling.

@iddsmedingus

2 жыл бұрын

It's not really any more hidden than opening the menu on firefox if you have the menubar disabled

@silhoubow9379

2 жыл бұрын

actually its not hidden, if you know where and what to do. he commenting from not noob perspective, when linus is playing really new user experience.

@iddsmedingus

2 жыл бұрын

@@silhoubow9379 Ok but like, that's not even specifically a pamac thing or hidden. That's literally standard design to slap a menu under the menu icon ever since menu bars were made illegal because of android. It's not hidden at all, it's just where it would be in any application that doesn't make use of a menubar, with the same generic hamburger menu glyph used in literally hundreds of applications.

maybe it was a driver problem. I had this in the past, that nvenc disapers after an nvidia driver update but a few days later after an update it was back there.

@dkosmari

2 жыл бұрын

It could also be a packaging problem. It's not uncommon for distros to break down the official Nvidia installer into multiple packages, and sometimes a file gets renamed by Nvidia, and it doesn't get repackaged properly by the distro.

The moment you need to play around with a config file for something so basic as sound, it tells that Linux is not ready for a public larger than passionate geeks. And I've used Linux for years and try to come back to it every year, and every time I'm disappointed because of simple things that are so goofy on it.

@tookaysevon

2 жыл бұрын

Not true. I'm a total tech noob and I've been using ubuntu/debian for a decade now.

@Oliver_Atkinson

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, i still use Ubuntu as my daily driver but when i have to go searching for a config file im always kinda disappointed

@ethanzhu8478

2 жыл бұрын

@@tookaysevon lol if you have been using Ubuntu for over a decade then by definition you are better than 99% of people

@softwarelivre2389

2 жыл бұрын

@@ethanzhu8478 no. Using Windows for 10 years doesn't make anyone not a tech noob, so why would using Ubuntu for 10 years be any different?

Thanks Gardiner. That was a fair breakdown. Having to switch from Windows to Linux isn't the same as wanting to switch. I wanted to switch, I didn't have to. So I expected big hurdles. And 5 years later, I can look back and say, I've had a blast with Ubuntu, explored lots of DE's, and now settled into Arch + KDE quite comfortably! I wouldn't change the speed bumps for anything! In fact, way back when... learning how to use Windows in 1995/6 wasn't a whole lot easier. I recall DOS/Windows puking and dying on me on the first install. And I recall having to use a friend's computer to figure out how to get Windows back on my PC because I was sure it was bricked! The point is, I was a Windows noob once upon a time too. I like things to just work too, don't get me wrong. But learning a new OS with zero previous experience is just going to come with a learning curve! Embrace it!

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

"In fact, way back when... learning how to use Windows in 1995/6 " Yes,, exactly. Using Linux now, takes me back to that time. But it is 2021, after all, and the problems with dealing with Windows in 1995 were only partly lack of knowledge. The other part was that Windows OS sucked until XP. Linux is where Windows was in 1995. Time to join the 21st century I think.

@pca736

2 жыл бұрын

@@chuctanundaspiderbone5407 Good point, seriously. I agree it could and should be better in 2021. Sadly though, Windows still struggles with some hardware. Especially when you have to get into any custom images. We still get blue screen BSOD in Windows today, in 2021. So MS isn't immune to that either. I'm actually not a Linux or bust person. I run windows, mac, and linux in my house. They each have their good and bad points. Actually, I have more Mac's than anything. I have the least problems with my Mac computers, old and new alike. I just prefer the customization I can get from Linux, so it's my daily driver! In the end, it's a programmers quagmire of sorts, and whether it's MS, Linux, Mac, they are all going to have things we dislike. And too often, crashes will be a part of that. Good luck though, in any quest to find a better option. I guess the solution is to write our own? After all, at least it's open-source!

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

@@pca736 All your points are well taken. As to "Writing your own," I don't know how to write software, but I could certainly contribute documentation. I just don't know where to start yet, given my skill with Linux is so small. But this conversation has provided a lot of food for thought.

This is the best example of learning Linux. I’ve started learning it almost a year ago and it is frustrating like Linus says but it’s also fun to figure it out and takes a little effort like Gardiner says. Great reaction video.

Gardiner, I just want to say your energy and perspective is always a delight.

I remember when you had to install steam through wine, im so glad proton and native clients exits

it's funny that in one of the recent wan shows Linus mocked about the "Clicking F12 to inspect HTML is illegal" thing and here he's confused by the link to the shell script being downloaded as a HTML.

I had to install the cuda package to get nvenc enconding, which I thought was dumb, but since I'm not using the standard Arch Kernel, I guess workarounds were needed

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

That does actually fit the Linux model. Small individual packages that do specific things. I'm sure nVidia'll address that soon, can't have anything that even resembles Linux philosophy coming from them :-D

@Gornius

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't nvidia-dkms provide this?

@filipefigueiredo8271

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrispyNut I know that's the Linux philosophy, however a almost 2GB, I think, package for nvenc enconding is not small... And should be baked into the driver itself, but we all know that's just Nvidia being nVidea

@filipefigueiredo8271

2 жыл бұрын

@@Gornius no that provides the build hooks for kernels, for example if you want to run the Zen kernel you need to add this package since the kernel does not use the non-free nvidia drivers, if you install that package everytime you update your kernel it will add the nvidia driver to the mkinitpci build hooks if I'm not mistaken

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

@@filipefigueiredo8271 Hey, it's smaller than all being lumped into one package, so relatively speaking, it's small, okay :whistles the sweetest of innocent sweetnesses:

As a non-gamer, this all makes Linux much scarier than it is. If I were a gamer I'd probably stick with Windows and dabble with Linux.

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Linux gamer. My favorite game is that puzzle game called cmake. Where you have to hunt for developer dependencies to beat the final boss make and ld. On some of the harder levels the code itself is broken and you need to repair it somehow. You get cryptic clues to help you on your adventure.

@AntonioCarlosPorto

2 жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred Yes, 'Baba is You' precursor in ASCII.

Damn! that was quick. I was just wondering when the next react vid drops.

I am grateful that you, and several of your KZread colleagues, are treating this "challenge series" as a valuable usability test. Thank you, and please keep it going like this! Actually, I've been very lucky in that I've only encountered one gatekeeper-y, "these dummies are all wrong Wrong WRONG" reaction video. Much cringe. With the Steamdeck and SteamOS 3 not that far away, the use case of "windows-experienced gamer but linux n00b" is incredibly important.

*uses UI package manager and it breaks* "Well you should have used the terminal" *uses terminal and it breaks* "Why didn't you just use the UI?"

It is not confusing at all that he's trying to use the terminal. Last time he found that he had to use it, so now he just skipped straight into it.

@ChrispyNut

2 жыл бұрын

No, he didn't. The GUI soft-failed, he went to CLI and that hard-failed (with help from Linus because CLI allows that).

Watching the Linus' Linux videos makes me grateful that Windows is so dominant. Why? Cause there are tons of techs like me who are dime a dozen, and for supporting users, businesses, etc. that's what you need, a well trained & plentiful support network backed by an overwhelming pool of knowledge. Linux as a whole doesn't have this, and until there is a streamlining of options, a simplification of the more basic user experiences, and more standardisation, "boots on ground" techs aren't going to recommend Linux to people.

@WarlonWinterheart

2 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile Linux quietly in the background running basically everything besides end user desktops.

@mecrumbly429___4

2 жыл бұрын

Linux has great community support. Where the hell did you go for linux support, /g/ on 4chan?

@louistournas120

2 жыл бұрын

@@WarlonWinterheart That's great but routers and servers and embedded devices and cellphones are a different bread. MS was just too late in those areas since its focus has been the desktop. MS has been able to take some of the server market share. For the desktop, Linux is behind while Windows is well tuned up. Except I don't like Win 8, and 10. It also looks like Linux has improved to the point of being usable as a desktop (for me). It became my daily driver for programming and gaming.

Gardiner: "I don't understand why he says it's hidden." Also Gardiner: *Proceeds to show EXACTLY how it's 'hidden.'*

man that button to enable snap/flatpack is hidden, do u think that a regular user will go there ?! - no, he/she will not and nobody thinks u can find that option right there. I use linux reguraly and really had to google to find where those buttons are. It is not user friendly at all like it is now.

@nebulous962

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@gardiner_bryant

2 жыл бұрын

I found it without even trying.

@rey6253

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant i dont doubt it, but still i dont think u are just a regular user :p

@nebulous962

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant I didn't even know it existed until i saw a video where a person showed me. So i can understand why linus said it was hidden.

@InGenSB

2 жыл бұрын

Oh... And did You know, how to turn on additional updates for ms software in Windows Update?

He's not even close to being 'dangerous' yet! :D

@TagetesAlkesta

2 жыл бұрын

sudo rm -r /*

@onee1594

2 жыл бұрын

But if you give him the explosives - he'll probably drop it. And he has a lot of uncomplicated followers (I don't mean everyone)

@phoenixrising4995

2 жыл бұрын

sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve muhahahahah!

@rembacke

2 жыл бұрын

"Yes, do as I say!"

@onee1594

2 жыл бұрын

@@FilooWoj Yep, he dropped his distro at first opportunity. It's discouraging that somebody this clumsy and arrogant has so much influence.

Man Linus is one of my favourite creators and he's the reason I'm finding all this interesting Linux content. I have to say that you are HANDS DOWN the most empathetic and constructive reviewer I've seen. Linus is known for being a "performer" of sorts and making everything dramatic (especially with luke as a counter weight) so you clarifying some of his exaggerations and misunderstandings was sweet. I'm subscribing to you for the genuine impression I got from you. Great content 👍

Not only do I get low battery warnings on my mouse, it gives me a battery indicator showing the exact percentage remaining.

9:58 This is actually a firefox behavior, and it happens even on windows... it saves as "install.sh" instead of "install.sh.html", like other browsers would. 14:45 He probably called it "hidden" because it is unintuitive. New users wouldn't have an idea it was a thing unless they went to the settings. It could be just a search filter toggle right on the side of the search input.

@gardiner_bryant

2 жыл бұрын

That's not true. All browsers base the filename on either the filename of the url or if there is no filename they base it on the text of the anchor tag.

Sidenote: from part 1 I got curious to see how the Steam Pop_OS! fixes were coming and saw the warning they added about the downgrade. Everything was up to date. Then I thought, oh yeah... I haven't added community repo yet. Checked the box, updated, and low and behold Steam installed without a hitch. Thinking that bug may have slipped through because adding the community repo is one of the first things many normally do (I just hadn't here because I was tinkering with Pop_OS! out of box).

@tharobiiceii

2 жыл бұрын

What is "community repo"? Why is it one of the first things many people do? I did a google search, but am still confused. :(

You could try to reach them and talk about the PT.5 Linux users that could provide different routes to solve their problems Or something like a guided way to go I really like your content

@pjlecy1

2 жыл бұрын

That's a really good idea.

@Atropos148

2 жыл бұрын

They said multiple times that will not happen, Linus and Luke want a "fresh new user" experience, they don't want extra help

@rivox1009

2 жыл бұрын

@@Atropos148 They also said that, since the challenge has ended, they may make a fifth video where other linux creators like Wendel react to the series.

@chuctanundaspiderbone5407

2 жыл бұрын

@@Atropos148 They said they didn't want extra help for themselves, but I think the whole point of the series was to generate a conversation about the barriers that average computer users, particularly gamers, face in attempts to adopt Linux. Perhaps they were hoping to generate that "extra help" for the benefit of their users.

I have not seen a lot of your videos yet, but it feels like we started linux around the same time, I relate to a lot of things when you talk about your difficulties when you started linux x)

"I wouldn't call that hidden..." Proceeds to list 7 steps to find the setting.

Linus seems to me like somebody who tries to learn a new language because somebody told him it's worthwhile learning it, but then only complains about the differences to his mother tongue saying "Wait, why is this different? This feels so unintuitive! Why are there exceptions to rules? And why are there different dialects and accents? I am used to my language being the same everywhere in the world! I am an expert with my own language and I do not enjoy the experience with this other language!"

Why coffee now if you don’t want caffeine or can’t handle it try some herbal tea lool

@StuTubed

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe he likes the taste.

Always enjoy your content. Very soothing. To me, watching your videos feels like talking to a friend about Linux/gaming. Also I sympathize with your caffeine sensitivity, mostly herbal tea for me but I do occasionally have decaf coffee.

Decaf. coffee? You mean, sadness brown water ? *runs to the hills

I remember the great, dark before times as well, when trying to get anything running with wine took hours of tinkering (and possibly a random script or two); it is light years better now. That being said, while I still test drive distros for game functionality, I still do 99% of my gaming in Windows. Granted, it is primarily because of the shoddy geforce driver experience and having less granular control over the power consumption of my system (GPU in particular). CoreCtrl is nice and all, but it is no match for Afterburner, Ryzen Master / XTU. I'm reminded though that there wasn't even something as good as CoreCtrl a couple of years ago; the whole desktop Linux scene really has come on leaps and bounds for both average users and gamers.

So I play guitar and record music. I use mixcraft 9. Last weekend, because of LTT's Linux videos including Anthony's, I decided to try Linux. Tried pop os, linux mint and ubuntu studio. I cannot get anything to record my guitar properly. Using the native DAW in Ubuntu Studio as it seems to operate my behringer umc204hd properly but the DAW is so clunky regardless of how "well" it sounded. Just wondering what you use if you do any recording? Asking because of your guitars :)

@mecrumbly429___4

2 жыл бұрын

Besides this issue, has your experience been fine?

@lovely-shrubbery8578

2 жыл бұрын

Hahhahahahhaha yeah music production is a nightmare. Try cadence tools and reaper if you want to stay in Linux.

Really do enjoy these reaction vids! It’s why and how found your channel in 1st place and now afterwards I had to sub; as liked your content 👍🏻 Cheers✌🏻

My first video of yours. Great reaction. Being honest about some issues and adding explanations to what is the best way to go about making things work instead of just being a hater or an elitist . I’ll definitely be subscribing to your channel hope the rest of your content is as informative and entertaining.

15:20 I'm a Gnome-bro (booo KED!) and I was inclined to say the same thing but actually no, in gnome if you open settings and go to sound if you scroll with your mouse in the middle of the screen you'll **** up absolutely all of your settings including setting all of your audio to exit out of the left side only and you might not even have noticed that's what you did and wonder why your headset is suddenly broken. This is also an issue in gnome.

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

Must be why I don't use Gnome.

"It is not hidden"... Like 7 extra steps... If you know these already, yeah it is easy. But for a newbie it is not 😅

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

Why would you think any complex task should be easy for a newbie to accomplish? Hiding garbage choices is making it easier on them.

Really enjoying these videos :)

By "hidden" I think he just meant "not on by default" or that he had to go find it at all to find certain packages. I don't think he meant it was actually hard to find.

Tc helicon are owned by Behringer now. I don’t think they’d even care about Windows support at this point!

@thanqol

2 жыл бұрын

Behringer actually has Linux support for some of its product line. And a lot of their audio devices are USB Class Compliant without the need for drivers.

The whole github thing just kind of felt more like "how to use a website." That's different for every site. I figured it out and am not a developer, but I think that's because I tend to approach things without assumptions. I don't expect something to work my way because previous things did.

@mecrumbly429___4

2 жыл бұрын

it amazes me how many people don't know what git clone is

Super humble reaction vid Love the attention to positive content at the end

Hi gardiner . Very fair reaction. As a casual linux user i think all of new comers had such problems and mostly because of vendors lack of support . But the future is all for linux✌️✌️✌️✌️

@mecrumbly429___4

2 жыл бұрын

Greetings fellow user! (sarcasm 100 :) I'm pretty grateful that my switch was pretty smooth (switched just last year, and now I'm on arch), watching all these people bum-rush their linux installations and Gorking stuff is geting real old.

No, no... he has a point with Apt. It would be little effort for the manjaro shell to catch you trying to use apt and tell you you're not on debian by default. The whole point of his series is how hard it is for a normie to use linux. Trying to use apt in an arch system is an understandable mistake for a newbie

@gardiner_bryant

2 жыл бұрын

Create a specific apt command on Manjaro that says "sorry, use pacman, instead" is kinda silly.

@BarnardoPlays

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant depends on who you want it to be accessible to. The uninitiated will definitely google "how do I install X on Linux?" and get outdated apt-get responses then try to action them without knowing why they're not working. Kinda silly? Sure, but it doesn't change that it will be a common problem if Linux grows. Even on Debian/Ubuntu based, apt-get is dated now but will still be a frequent search result.

@Ricardoromero4444

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant To you, yes. Then again, the whole point of the series is how hard it is for a normie to use linux.

@colto2312

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant one line of code that saves a million headaches sounds like a cheap deal

@TheEchelon1619

2 жыл бұрын

@@gardiner_bryant It's 2021 dude. I think a 20kb text line that says "yo bro, use pacman" isn't going be silly.

You know in my opinion linus is right you should not have to execute .sh files manually in the terminal. A double click on the file should suffice.

@Henrik_Holst

2 жыл бұрын

And you can.

@herbertvillefort8178

2 жыл бұрын

@@Henrik_Holst Maybe you can do so on some distributions. Ob Debian 9 for example you can't I've run into this prooblem multiple times.

@Henrik_Holst

2 жыл бұрын

@@herbertvillefort8178 That depends on your DE and not on your distro. On Gnome this is built in, however it might be disabled by default so if you use Gnome then open Filer/Nautilus click settings and then click the second tab from the left (not sure what the name is in English) and in the middle there you have options on what to do with runnable textfiles. Do note that you have to right-click on a script, select properties and mark the file as executable for this to work as well or nautilus will open it in you default text editor.

@herbertvillefort8178

2 жыл бұрын

​@@Henrik_Holst Okay that's the problem then. I'm using KDE. Thanks for the heads up.

@phenixnunlee372

2 жыл бұрын

He would have a point ,but that is not how .bat or .command file work on mac os either so... no.

I would agree that the flatpak/aur option is hidden. But that is because it's supposed to be hidden. Checking this box *doesn't* cause pamac to behave like pacman because pacman cannot install flatpak or aur packages from repos. Checking the box enables extra functionality beyond pacman that could potentially be harmful because they are third party packages which is why it isn't front and center for new users.

Very informative to hear your perspective. Keep it up.

I feel like Linus has such specific requirements with the software and hardware he wants to use that of course everything becomes much more difficult.

@nebulous962

2 жыл бұрын

Yes true. There are plenty of audio mixers for an example that work great on linux. I know cus i have yamaha analog mixer and it works great on linux. It has like 12 channels. So i could have 12 audio inputs connected to it. It was plug and play.

@link1565V2

2 жыл бұрын

Well not everyone wants to spend thousands of dollars to replace perfectly good hardware just to make it work on Linux... People are completely missing the point that this series is coming from the perspective of a complete novice switching to Linux. And not just a novice, but people who would rather do anything else than fight with their OS to make anything work.

@MrMediator24

2 жыл бұрын

@@nebulous962 thing is this series supposed to show, what average user experience with Linux distros looks like. 99% of them will use what they have in terms of hardware and peripherals and almost all of them were tested to work on Windows, with Linux being second or none thought. Catch 22 at it worst

@nebulous962

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrMediator24 yes true.

@onee1594

2 жыл бұрын

Not only specific requirements but he wants a specific way of doing things and it should be the first one he thinks of and he forces it on Linux. It doesn't work because windows is so broken

Another great view of his experience. Though I would also say that some of these things you find easy or obvious, he and/or many of us don't. I of course attribute this to the inexperience many of us including Linus have in using Linux. I look forward to future reactions.

Lol, that comment about Windows and DOS being the only two to care about file extensions. It reminded me that Windows was originally built on and dependant to DOS.

Its great to get this reactions. Thank you for the effort in creating the feedback.