Racing Wheel S-Tier, every other controller F-Tier.

@battlericky17

Жыл бұрын

Video over

@G0Crazy1

Жыл бұрын

way to spoil it

@notthatplease

Жыл бұрын

Jokes aside, how do you beat someone on a racing wheel? What are you going to do when the Blanka player pulls the hand break at round start?

@prachetasnayse9709

Жыл бұрын

I know it’s a meme, but imagine someone playing with the wheel and giving you a run for your money xD

@sanicboi9187

Жыл бұрын

@@notthatplease I think I remember nephew played ranked with a steering wheel a while ago.

decent vid but some pretty notable omissions, for example the ps4 steering wheel, guitar hero guitar, and the potemkin pizza box battlestation (with tom cruise top gun flip-guard SOCD activator switch)

My main reason for switching to Arcade stick back in the day was that using pad caused me a ton of wrist pain. Moving the motion to larger muscle groups (whole arm vs. thumb/wrist) allows me to play for hours on end day after day pain free, which is the only real thing that matters to me :)

@kamachunoFGC

Жыл бұрын

I started playing fgs with arcade sticks too. But i cant do dp lmao

@hugopacheco3575

Жыл бұрын

I played Tekken with PS4 pad but I used too much force and wrecked them. I bought an arcade stick because of that and because I find it cooler as well. Lol.

@jonathangzzben

Жыл бұрын

@@kamachunoFGC there is a trick for it to make it easier. Do a quarter circle down and then a quarter circle front and press the button in the middle of the quarter circle front motion

@dr.phil.pepper3325

Жыл бұрын

Same here, I've bought a stick because they look cool, but I keep using it because it is less stressful for the thumbs and wrists. I've made several attempts to turn back to a pad just to avoid carrying around a huge arcade stick, when I want to play at a friends house. But my thumbs get exhausted super quickly. It feels like typing with two fingers on a keyboard after learning 10-finger-typing. I'm using the stick not only for fighting games, but also for other games with digital inputs like run and guns, shmups or beat em ups. I can't imagine a life without arcade sticks anymore.

@iamlpdo19

Жыл бұрын

Facts on this entire statement

As for the cognitive load of wrapping your head around Hitbox movement, that will all get baked into your Type 1 thinking with practice. The thing I struggle with on pad is the fine manipulation, articulating the same motions in a tighter, more precise space, versus the coarser manipulation of the larger controllers. It's like playing a miniature guitar versus a piano, or signing your name on a grain of rice versus a pad of paper. Just feels super claustrophobic to me.

@Kanoa99

Жыл бұрын

Split dpad mod solved this for me, everything feels waaay more deliberate!

I have to say that as a bass player, hitbox has made more sense to me than all the other controllers, cuz I was already used to "finger-work"

@TSE_WOODY

Жыл бұрын

As someone acquainted with your mother, same.

@kelzakdub

Жыл бұрын

I really feel this! I'm on keyboard rather than hitbox but the same thing applies. Movement feels so much easier with 4 dedicated buttons, so do inputs.

@chrxs61632

10 ай бұрын

@@TSE_WOODYdayum

@aeradan1694

6 ай бұрын

@@TSE_WOODYbeat me to it man😂

@maccabanana1373

12 күн бұрын

As a pianist it was the same for me

Blue. Toad. Rabbits. Glad you ended up doing this! I had a feeling your thoughts would be this well rounded and in depth. Your Hitbox videos led me to owning a Snackbox Micro Hitbox. It's been an amazing experience that has inspired me to practice even more lately. 🎸🦖

@aminzamen9184

Жыл бұрын

get influenced jajajajaja

K-Levers use a grommet instead of a spring pivot system, which allows you to snap back to neutral more quickly. Great for movement in Tekken with KBDs and wavedashing. But you can get a lighter tension grommet that lets you move more freely in 2D fighters. Works very well, honestly. Personally, I use battops on my Japanese levers because I like a more pronounced grip when I move. But that's just me. SOCD on Hitbox/Leverless also makes KBDs absolutely trivial in Tekken, and I love it.

@via_negativa6183

Жыл бұрын

As a Tekken Mishima player I couldnt imagine life without my Korean stick.

@rhagos5562

Жыл бұрын

its my turn with the Gromit mug

I would also consider mechanical keyboard if you play on pc. Similar inputs to hitbox but you have a lot more options to customize like setting specific keys for throws or lp+mp+hp

@human__________

11 ай бұрын

agreed. i'm going to get a hitbox style controller to try it out but i doubt i'll find it all that superior to keyboard. after that i'm going to try finding something like a corne keyboard for better ergonomics. or maybe i'll rage quit sf6 and get neither haha

@Amaling

11 ай бұрын

Keyboard is genuinely the best controller, but the issue is the delay you get connecting it to PS4/5, which matters a lot in tourneys

@human__________

11 ай бұрын

@@Amaling you mean consoles have latency with keyboad? or just the time to set it up?

@Rutzou4

10 ай бұрын

they had to nerf the superior controller(keyboards) by adding input lag on consoles@@human__________

@pedrohenrique-db3xd

7 ай бұрын

​@@human__________ keyboards on consoles have latency on the inputs. Since most offline tournaments setups are on console (because its easier equipment to use) using Kb is not good in the long run if you want to be competitive.

Blue Toad Rabbits! Love your stuff, mad respect for you and your continued contribution to the FGC. My love for fighting games has only begun and I can say a lot of that is thanks to you and everyone here.

Part of the reason I love French Bread's fighting games is they have an alternate input to dashing: ForwardAB. It's one movement rather than three, and it makes dash cancels and the like really consistent and fast. Makes movement on their gamea incredibly fun.

Some notes on pad that you missed. These show up in other Fighting Games outside of Street Fighter: ■ Pad has access to more macro buttons. Very relevant in Skull Girls and DBFZ who have a lots of 2-button combinations like Snapback and Vanish. You can also buy official Back Button Attachments for even more macro options. ■ Pad is *terrible* for Negative Edge characters, such as SF4 Juri or Zero in Marvel vs. Capcom. You need to either have awkward shoulder button macros or a claw grip (terrible for your wrists). ■ Arcade lever is great for Float Control in vs. games like DBFZ, where Super Jump Float determines a lot of neutral interactions. It is easy to accidentally use double jump on Pad, and float control is very unintuitive on All-Buttons layouts. ■ DPad + Analog stick SOCD tricks are very game-specific. In SF5, DPad down + Stick up = up, while in DBFZ DPad down + Stick up = down. ■ Modified DPad Buttons are great; the mod separates the single plastic piece into 4 individual buttons. Not only does it reduce the resistive force (no more charging thumb pains!), but it improves blocking precision, and unlocks additional SOCD tricks (DPad Left + DPad Right = Neutral) and shortcuts by skipping diagonals (2636 for Double QCF Super and 6246 for Half Circle Super in GG Strive) ■ For tournament setups without audio (especially at locals), you can plug Headphones into a pad, stealing the game audio. Especially nice with Active Noise Cancelling. More expensive boards for custom-built arcade sticks can also have this feature, but I've found it rare out in the wild.

@AdmiralBobbery123

Жыл бұрын

As a Pad player, I always got frustrated with how it was basically impossible for me to ever learn Zero or Vergil in UMVC3 because of their reliance on negative edge. It felt like the two best characters in the game being locked behind a different controller (or an extremely awkward controller setup)

@kaos7116

Жыл бұрын

I play on pad but I don't I use the pad. I use the analog stick is this normal?

@SilverTheTabby

Жыл бұрын

@@kaos7116 not at high level, no. The D-Pad is better for grounded dashes, and for blocking. The analog stick is better for motion inputs, (especially half circles), Instant Air Dashes, and for float control. I personally use my modified D-Pad for 95% of the game. But, I quickly swap to the analog stick for Instant Air Dashes and for half circles, returning when it's clear that I need to block.

@kaos7116

Жыл бұрын

@@SilverTheTabby I got VIP in strive and TTG in Tekken playing on it, guess I'm just built different

@darklombax2580

Жыл бұрын

What’s negative edge

The biggest problem I had with hitbox was when I switch sides. Player 2 side really hard for me. Personally, I just love stick more, and I've become more casual over time, so I rather just use stick and have fun.

For years I always used a USB Sega Saturn pad to have access to 6 face buttons. I really loved that controller! Only downside was not having a select or PS button, so I switched to stick out of necessity.

For the half-circle thing with hitbox, the best way I found of doing it was (for a half-circle forward / 41236); hold 4, hold 2+6, release 4+2. Much more consistent than trying to hold 4, then release 4 before holding 2, then hold 6, etc... The SOCD cleaner ensures that holding 4+6 down will cancel each other out so only the 2 (down) input comes out. This also made KoF and Guilty Gear playable, doing double half-circles and 63214+6H style inputs. 360's and 720's, I only found possible with the weird slide technique. I could do Goldlewis max charge 1080's with this though, which I had trouble with, even on stick. Tiger knee inputs are harder IMO. Try doing Dhalsim IA gales on hitbox and stick, stick is far easier. Same goes for things like Sagat kara fireball with f+HK. Overall I think stick is still better, except maybe for moving around in Tekken.

@dihy5579

Жыл бұрын

I think this is dependent on your finger dexterity, I am very new to strive and I play on a reverse all button controller (and keyboard), was able to learn kara potbuster (6246K~P) quite quickly. I can also input the 360 potbuster (6248P) consistently. I have played piano for over 10 years, and guitar for at least 5; it is akin to doing clean hammeron/pulloffs (legato), clean trills, etc.

I subbed. Very well explained and, generally, pretty fair. Only ever seen you as a comentator and occasionally guy doing matches, Never realised how articulated and analytical you are.

My biggest reason for switching to stick over pad is ease of access to repair/replacement parts. If I had a dollar for every d-pad I've destroyed playing fighting games, I'd have a few dollars, but nowhere near enough to replace the first busted controller. I'm aware that mods and extra parts are available, but I've never really been able to find what I need, and I'm way more uncomfortable taking a pad apart than a stick.

@proggz39

Жыл бұрын

Especially now that the DualSense dpad feels and inputs like mushed potatoes, it may be a pretty good idea to switch to stick

@5:47 "Can you map analog stick inputs to paddles without breaking tourney regulations?". This is a question I've been researching. I have a Razor Wolverine Ultimate and the Ultimate V2 controllers. When I looked up EVO rules, it seemed to be acceptable to map inputs so long as they were only cardinal directions. But other tournaments seemed more strict on button mapping.

@jkdwarrior3

9 ай бұрын

Hey I'm new to fighting games, I have the razer wolverine ultimate as well with the interchangeable d -pad. Would you say this is a good controller to stick with long term for street fighter?

@smoothsavage2870

9 ай бұрын

@@jkdwarrior3 I would say so! Im not a big fan of the flat D-pad though. I feel like im actually pressing the buttons when i use the stock D-pad with the raised directional buttons.

@jkdwarrior3

9 ай бұрын

@@smoothsavage2870 oh good tip thanks

One thing I really don't understand about that whole hitbox conversation that make it really silly to me is: I just see a keyboard.

@stephenc7576

Жыл бұрын

Same lmao, it's a keyboard layout with arcade buttons and a non-intuitive up key, if they made the left controls the same layout as WASD it would be a lot better, because hitbox does have a better ergonomic angle to its buttons

@crashmat1042

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenc7576 i þink it is þe way it is because its like spacebar to jump

@stephenc7576

Жыл бұрын

@@crashmat1042 I get that, but that only works for action games, when you need to execute shapes like circles/half circles it's a lot better to have a WASD layout

@crashmat1042

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenc7576 full circles i get, i am þankful to not play any characters wiþ full circles on my keyboard, but why are half circles harder? Just (i believe the term is) plink your 3 fingers quickly along þe 3 buttons and þere is your half circle

the ordinary pc keyboard deserves a mention as so many people play on pc these days

@joqqeman

Жыл бұрын

It's an uncommon way to play but very solid low cost option!

@29:00 I've found the trick to getting half circles with HitBox is to press: back, back+down, back+down+forward (SOCD down), release back+down and press the required button. I was trying to do this previously with pressing two buttons at a time, and I would often miss the required down input, especially if I was pressing a direction just before the half circle. Now I use the three directional button press method, I don't have a problem with half circles anymore (and dare I say, I was tempted to go back to stick to perform half circles and 360s, but now I can execute them quicker and cleaner on hitbox, which eliminates the last reason I had to ever go back to play on arcade stick).

Great video! The thing about pad that made it far worse for SF4 was chording (pressing a bunch of buttons at the same time), it is really awkward with a single thumb (instead of two fingers in the stick) and you needed that for plinking and fadc a lot. V-skill and V-Trigger needs also, but it is just a light touch just like a throw. Making lengthy chording not necessary anymore is vital to make these games more accessible

As a controller player, the dash macro in games like strive have blessed me in many ways.

@jefflevy606

Жыл бұрын

i switched from controller to stick recently and i miss having a shoulder button dash macro so bad lol

Well as a fighting game newbie planning to get into SF6, i actually didn't expect Arcade stick to come in 3rd place. Guess that exemplifies my newb staus but Im still getting one for SF6, Arcade sticks just seem so cool to me, and as a casual i was always terrible on pad, stick seems like it will be more intuitive for me when it comes to quarter circle and half circle inputs as mentioned in this video.

@Eidolon11

Жыл бұрын

its important to know while this stuff is tiered its based on his opinion, really if youre down for arcade stick, enjoy. its all based on the player. if youre struggling with the stick, dont think "i messed up i need pad or hitbox" all of em got the nuances and such. its all about what feels good for you. and each thing has their skill floor to get good and comfortable with them

@atata9

Жыл бұрын

I just got into SF6 and I was playing with a controller and did not like how some inputs felt, I kinda wanted to go back to arcade stick just for nostalgia. However, a hitbox was my favorite option so I am using my keyboard. No money spent and I am already used to wasd.

@PauloCesar-vh5kk

Жыл бұрын

I bought an Xbox controller just to play SF6, but I just couldn't get used to it and went back to using my keyboard. For some reason i'm better using it, maybe because i've been a PC player all my life.

@hericiumcoralloides5025

6 ай бұрын

These slight differences and advantages won't really matter much to the vast majority of players. Pick what's most fun and comfortable for you. I've always been better on stick than pad, even though pad has some clear advantages, so I play on stick. Also, sticks just look cool IMO. If you want to see how hitbox might feel you can definitely play on keyboard. Aside from the clutter of extra buttons everywhere, it's very similar. You can also map the layout to yoyr comfort and needs.

@ChrisStoneinator

3 ай бұрын

Stick is still the most intuitive and ergonomic. Don’t believe the hype around leverless. As for pad… sure games have gotten better at allowing for the weaknesses of pad, same as simcade racing games have gotten better at allowing for players not having a wheel. Doesn’t mean pad is now on par with a real stick.

the hitbox cross up lets me do crazy stuff like easy instant overheads and allows me to do all kind of cool tech, but i still dont have to overhaul how i play, its perfect!

I played pad (Seth/Ryu) during all of th SFIV era and what I really liked is that I would use dpad for most things but use the joystick for spds. What I found easier on stick, however, was plinking for harder links like cr. jab, jab, st. jab, sweep, etc. Overall, I do prefer pad but I love playing stick because it's so tactile and fun. Also, blue toad rabbits.

Half circles in hitbox are a nightmare. Donkey kick combos were really hard to learn.

@ZenithPotentia

Жыл бұрын

You think so? You kinda just roll your fingers like you’re drumming a table

@YolkyPokey

Жыл бұрын

@@ZenithPotentia Which is easy to do in Neutral, but when you are holding down another direction... well at least I found it to be quite challenging to learn.

Another big thing for hitbox to consider is that due to input leniency in newer games, hitbox is very hard to get used to on retro titles. I play a lot of 3s on hitbox and as a necro main I can't tell you the amount of times ive dropped my bnb nado hook combos due to how specific the half circles have to be. That being said there are socd shortcuts that still work on retro. So to anyone who likes retro games AND hitbox stick with it!!!

@ashtar3876

Жыл бұрын

Yeah half circles are weird. Dudley on keyboard here.

@anunknowndude

Жыл бұрын

So yeah, let me use another imput to get a move with a different imput... hitbox is not cheating... I wouldn't call it cheating, but it's definitely taking another route to the goal .. well, yes, it's kind of cheating

@naejimba

Жыл бұрын

Plus I've talked to two different Zangief gods from ST and they both tried out a hitbox style and both said doing 360 motions (let alone 720s) are not possible to do consistently. So if you play an older game and want to play a character with a 360 it is NOT a viable option!

I started using a keyboard recently. I feel it's pretty similar to an hitbox but way cheaper...still, i immediately noticed this "weak finger" thing you mentioned so i was wondering if there's a way to train that finger?

Keyboard best Space for jump and ASD for back down forward is functionally a Hitbox but without the con of being checked for a potential bomb in an airport edit: and without the price tag jfc

@jvukovic4

Жыл бұрын

This, I take off the surrounding caps and use numpad as L M and H

@theshinken

Жыл бұрын

I actually prefer my keyboard to my hitbox because the buttons are so nice, but it also was twice as expensive as the hitbox ^^'. Also I learned fighting games on the keyboard because I couldn't afford a console and hat to emulate Street Fighter on school PCs so It's a legacy thing for me as well.

@night1952

Жыл бұрын

I'm a total noob at FG, always played on Dualshock and hate doing motion inputs on that, feels imprecise, hurts my thumb, half the time I get the input wrong... Then I changed to keyboard and inputs are so easy, I can DP consistently without any effort.

@andreyshvedchenko5463

Жыл бұрын

Yep, i buy optic keyboard and bind keys like on hitbox > it's rly nice place + in soft i "off buffer" or what this call (used sp.move when u "press off" the button) - what i think not problem on hitbox with his "low heigh-move buttons" but i feel it do problem for kboard and now keys "on/off" in 40ms = less poor missmove but problem with charge "TAP" moves...thx capcom in SF6 u can off this sht and now it's plays just perfect on kb + in SF6 u CAN bind evry "moves" like grap etc on evry button...YES, in SF6 KB have more profit - and u not need "soft" to fix...because it's legal, Capcom do gj to PC.

Snake Eyez actually used a fightpad in Street Fighter. They are pretty great and combine the benefits of the button layout from both sticks and standard pads with a dpad. I myself use one. If you want to try one then I highly recommend the Hori fighting commander or the Razor Raion fightpad. I use the Razor Raion and it's compatible with ps4/5 and PC.

@doomriff4506

Жыл бұрын

Wouldnt really recommend the Razer, its Dpad struggles hard with diagonals. Switched back to Hori. Used the FC4 for almost all of SF5 before the wear was too much

@nybethobdilord6912

Жыл бұрын

@@doomriff4506 I haven't had any issues with it and I use it for just about every classic and modern fighting game I play.

@digitalsmear

Жыл бұрын

Other problem with the Razer pad is no analog stick, so no SOCD tricks. The Hori pad has one analog, in a Dualshock positioning, so you can do them, albiet, awkwardly. The real winner is the Victrix Pro controller that lets you swap parts around so you can put the analog in an X-Box configuration and make the SOCD tricks a little easier (pointer finger over the top)

@nybethobdilord6912

Жыл бұрын

@@digitalsmear scod tricks are lame. It's for people who struggle with execution. Don't need such a handicap if you practice.

@digduck9463

Жыл бұрын

I'm loving the HORI Fighting Commander octa controller(pad)

is it really impossible to do a perfect flashkick on stick? can't you get it if you manage to get the stick from down to up in less than 1/60th of a second?

are there hitbox layouts that are less cramped? movment buttons are so close to attack buttons if you would want to use your right thumb for lk your left thump for up would cross with ur other thumb if you have your hands flat agains the case, seems like it would uncomfortable or annoying. toughts?

Ive never met a pad player who wasnt injured by their controller. Thats often overlooked imo

@contemporaryart3404

Жыл бұрын

Or how they’re constantly replacing their pads.

@shaolinotter

Жыл бұрын

@@contemporaryart3404 meanwhile you can use an arcade stick for 5 or 10 ten years and then sell it for retail or more

@bobsag1164

Жыл бұрын

How does a controller injure you lmao

@eatingbreakfastrocks

9 ай бұрын

@@bobsag1164constantly rubbing the dpad causes mad fatigue and soreness on your thumb. carpal tunnel might also start showing up too

I get a lot of shit for it, but I do just fine playing with a Xbox styled controller while using the analog stick. Personal comfort will matter way more in the long run, so make sure you put that at the front of your controller decisions. (BlueToadRabbits)

@kaleidoslug7777

Жыл бұрын

100% same, analog stick is the way to go for me. On actual pad I often misinput the vertical directions and even doing Shoryuken is pretty uncomfortable

@hmad898

Жыл бұрын

on my xbox controller i switch between the stick and dpad. dpad for dps, dashes, blocking, etc. stick for everything else.

I went from pad to leverless and the motions felt really intuitive to me. It never felt like "individual button press" like button by button but more of a string where I do a certain motion with my fingers. Doing half circle forward is the most intuitive thing ever, you just roll your hand from left to right. About the SOCD tricks, to me of course it is harder cause you have way more "codes" to remember but that's only because it is a layer of execution deeper that no other controller can do. At even type of requirement it's more comparable. If we talk accessibility, we shouldn't bring the highest execution requirement imo, we talk skill floor not ceilling. (skill floor still behing higher than any other controller ofc)

I just switched to a hitbox layout to test it out... and my brain is totally scrambled. your words sum up all the things I am experiencing atm. as I am getting better at it sometimes I wished the up button was the down button and other times I wished it was the other way around... I know it will take a lot of time but I think this will take way more than the time I switched from a controller to a stick due to how un intuitive the button placements are.

@digitalsmear

Жыл бұрын

Once you start to think of it as the "jump" button, ala FPS games, instead of an "up" button, it gets easier.

Does the PS4 pad stuff apply to the PS5 controller?

@AdamJorgensen

Жыл бұрын

Most likely

Love Bison in Alpha 2/3, but being a pad player (too cheap rn for a good stick) means death to my thumbs. Thank you for bringing this up.

would you recommend buying an arcade stick if you have troubles performing something like tekken grabs? maybe its just me but i have alot of troubles actually timing 2 buttons the same time on controller. i also got alot of troubles with half circle motions. should i just stick to a dpad or should i specifically switch to a stick because of that? I know that a stick doesnt inherently make you better but i think that like this video shows there are some good pros and cons for each controller. Thanks in advance! :D

@ChrisStoneinator

3 ай бұрын

Yes mate.

For dashing with a stick you don’t need to move the stick as far as possible for the input to be read, most sticks you can move it an extremely small distance and have the input be read, even with moving the stick as far as the gate allows the speed is very comparable to that of button input movement

Really nice video, Hitbox does have its cons yet most old people considered hitbox as cheating. I tried using keyboard lately and playing from another side is very different experience since you are using different fingers for me its harder to master than sticks but when you finally learned it, its the most precise controller out there.

@justice8718

Жыл бұрын

It’s not that hard. We have pianos for a reason.

@zagaraditya890

Жыл бұрын

@@justice8718 strangely I'm a pianist myself and yeah for that reason I always prefer keyboard. But my point is as kb user you have to master playing right and left side. Because mostly your finger muscle memories is just in one side

@justice8718

Жыл бұрын

@@zagaraditya890 f ew f ew f ew few f ew w ef w ef w ef w ef w ef w ef I often do this all of the time on hitbox because the characters I play as have moves that come out on opposite inputs.

@titus17

Жыл бұрын

it’s simple. leverless controllers allow the player to perform actions that are physically impossible to perform on the controllers that the game is designed around. On a hitbox, you can hold back and hold forward at the SAME TIME (physically impossible on normal controllers) which allows you to do things that the game is not designed to regulate like charging a sonic boom with guile while shooting your sonic boom the exact millisecond after shooting it. Doing things that your opponent cannot physically perform simply due to your controller then that’s an unfair advantage

@justice8718

Жыл бұрын

​ @Roberto Ramirez They literally do not do this anymore. Hitbox SCOD has absolute Up priority (cause jump). Left and Right disable each other.

Is there a leverless stick that works for ps5 and or Xbox series x? I want to get the snack box micros for its convenience but it doesn’t work on ps5 I think.

Amazing video! I know you don't like tier-lists, but I really hope you make more videos like this. (Blue toad rabbits)

Blue toed rabbits, the fight pad was my favourite controller of choice for playing SSFIV. However I destroyed my membrane in a few months across 2 different fight pads and gave up on them. (Down+left stopped working completly). Ultimately switched to hit box in 2013 for the memes.

@yannycakes5796

Жыл бұрын

I did ironically purchase a hitbox because my other friends all used arcade stick and Everytime I tried it using it I couldn't even do an hadouken. So I was stuck using an uncool 360 controller. So to be cool I bought a hitbox.

The first controller *I* played Street Fighter on was that one that had two giant buttons-one for punch, one for kick. You got different results depending on how hard you pressed (or more "pushed") the buttons, though since SF1 was a bit of a button-mashing game, it didn't much matter. Once you figured out "fireball motion", you were more or less set until Thailand. And then you really needed "weird uppercut motion" to win.

@Cezkarma

Жыл бұрын

Damn, considering that control scheme was only ever released in Japan, appeared in very few arcades, and was taken out of arcades very incredibly quickly due to machines breaking from excessive force, I'm surprised you're one of the people who got to play on those.

@Topic-Star14

Жыл бұрын

𝘠𝘰𝘶'𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘭𝘥

@Asterra2

Жыл бұрын

@@Cezkarma Not sure where you're getting that account, but no, I played it in a local arcade in the middle of the US. Granted, this is a pretty early memory for me but you can find plenty of other reports of this control scheme online. When I finally saw the game with a six-button configuration, it totally clicked how much better that option would have been.

@Cezkarma

Жыл бұрын

@@Asterra2 can't paste links here but a simple Google search will reveal that's the case.

@ashtar3876

Жыл бұрын

Bro's playing on a divekick controller

I need one for sf6 now. Do you still think the ps5 pad is equally as good as in sf5?

Blue Toad Rabiits. Real talk your content has been some of the best to listen to while working when your not in a bracket or playing rank. You provide a great level of detail and solid observation. Highly recommend.

A topic that people don't really talk about is that you literally CAN do SOCD on arcade stick. Very often you have extra buttons on stick (usually the right two buttons L1 and L2 on my stick), you can bind those buttons to directions and execute SOCD moves! In some games you have the option to do this in game, like Tekken 7, and if the game doesn't provide this option you can achieve the same result on the steam controller options or the console options.

@Giraffinator

Жыл бұрын

Not really feasible in offline street fighter tournaments, which is usually the context that Brian is talking in. Cool to know though.

@BRJoinGames

Жыл бұрын

@@Giraffinator I wouldn't discard the viability of stick SOCD so easily. As far as I know you can bind your inputs however you prefer in offline tournaments as long as you don't use macros or try to bind two inputs to the same button, anything goes.

@martingutierrez694

Жыл бұрын

While you can do this at home, if you'e a tournament player, this would be considered illegal. CPT for instance has this in their rules: "A controller can have both move button and a lever simultaneously, however, the controller must give up the corresponding input on the lever. For example, if a player assigns the upward action into a move button, such player must lose the upward input with lever."

@Giraffinator

Жыл бұрын

@@BRJoinGames so there's 3 problems. One is that Street fighter and other games generally don't let you make assignments for directions. Two, I don't know what the legality of using using steam to assign controls is, but regardless, tournament standards call for consoles. 3rd, assigning a single directional command to multiple inputs is against most, if not all tournament controller rules (with a specific exception for dualshock controllers).

@BRJoinGames

Жыл бұрын

​@@Giraffinator I'm not saying to use the same command in multiple buttons. The left input on pad is not the same left input on the analog stick, games that give you the freedom to change your direction binds allow you to bind "pad directions" and "analog stick directions" separately, like Tekken 7. The only thing that happens when you connect an arcade stick is the analog stick directions are bind to nothing. All controllers are just buttons, even levers are buttons, inside arcade stick levers are 4 triggers. The only thing stopping you from SOCD is the way you decide to bind your buttons.

In the stick section, I definitely know the audio cues thing is a big nerf. When I played comp. Smash, GC controllers were so clicky I could tell when my opponent hit a shoulder button and could cover that option. So to cover that option for myself I swapped around my face button and shoulder button inputs 😂

@via_negativa6183

Жыл бұрын

Thats why good stick users have dead buttons on their stick to decieve listeners.

What’s the medley Brian_F has playing in the back? I love menu music in fighting games.

The title said "Definitive Tier List" so I clicked, liked, commented, and subscribed.

Unironicly the S+ god tier controller is keyboard, you can find one at the cheapest price of all the others, light weight, easy to carry, everyone has one, you can remap your button layout to whatever you want. Unironicly can't find anything bad about it other than you might need a PS4 adapter but even then it could be cheaper than a pad

@benjman8369

Жыл бұрын

Potential for ghosting + difficulty with half circles are the only real cons I've dealt with

Took years for FGC to learn that keyboard is the superior way to play the game after all, because when you think about it that's what the hitbox layout is pretty much, and that's how I used to play most fighting games in the past but people trashed me by saying I was crazy/stupid for doing so, man, we came a long way.

@smoothsavage2870

Жыл бұрын

Folks never see the vision until it's popularized.

@shaolinotter

Жыл бұрын

having good buttons is a pretty significant difference for me but point taken

@numa2k147

Жыл бұрын

I always knew Keyboard was better but the keys were too small for my big hands so I didn't stick for long unfortunatly

@hugejackedman3447

Жыл бұрын

Very first coin-op game that was developed sometime in the 1950s was "leverless". Imagine had arcade games remained that way...🤔

@cashbag

Жыл бұрын

Keyboard is similar to hitbox but with no SOCD

BLUUUUUE TOAD RABBITS. Love your vids Brian. You really helped my KZread game, your content creation tip videos are my favorite kind!

Brian with the sweet Blue-Toed Rabbit tech; also excellent video as always!

Ty Brian because ive been waiting to buy a controller for fighting games specifically. Not a tier list guy, but i respect the stache, and the opinion.

@battlericky17

Жыл бұрын

17:40 love you bro

I'm so happy I switched from pad to leverless. Main reason, I was sick of controllers breaking

This video is spot on, I mimicked a hit box button layout on my keyboard and it’s OP

Blue. Toad. Rabbits. Love the breakdown. Especially the use case for character move sets.

The biggest thing that jumps out to me about the Hitbox is all the cons you listed can eradicated by just putting in a ton of time and learning how to use the controller. You didn't actually give cons with the device itself like you did with a pad or arcade stick.

@icespicefan4771

8 ай бұрын

So you dont value time?

I agree, hitbox and certain types of pads are the best. Arcade stick to me is like B+ tier now, the lever mechanism is so 1980's design.

Tfw keyboard wasn't mentioned once.

Blue toad rabbits! As someone who's first fighting game was sfv, the decision between pad and arcade stick was mighty difficult. However, It still seems like the adage of "go with what you're comfortable with and you'll see results" still holds up and will for all newcomers

Realistically arcade stick should be the only tournament legal controller ex. Game was made for originally a arcade stick pads and hit box's break the game in certain ways that weren't intentionally meant to be invok3d during game play

@Cezkarma

Жыл бұрын

No, they don't. Read up.

keyboard >>>>>

@nota_2526

3 ай бұрын

Hit box is just a better keyboard tho

where would you rate "mixbox" i was thinking about buying a cardimod which will convert my arcade stick to a mix box

im jus glad to see my “hi future me” comment at the beginning of one of these, 4th wall breaking irl indeed

Blue Toad Rabbits! Looks like a lot of folk didn't watch the video 😮 great content as always Brian!

Korean levers have the issue of dash inputs solved, and the answer is rubber grommets for that sweet near instant return to neutral. Pair that with some modified switches, actuators, and/or shafts, and you are ready to dash for days. Also, there are various techniques used for fast dashing that I'd argue are on par with button presses. You have to remember people were dash canceling and IADing links back in the arcades on stock Seimitsus/JLFs with those tight af controls so it is definitely possible; much harder than pad and hitbox for sure, but still possible.

twewy ost for bgm is refined taste. great job as always Brian.

blue toad rabbits I am a new fighting game player and I was wondering if keyboard is comparable to the hitbox? I use keyboard because it just feels way better to use than pad.

14:00 The fucking silence when staring at the screen with the message "am I a monster for using the joystick instead of the d pad" LMFAO

where would you rank handheld mode on the steam deck and switch.

Blue toad rabbit really changed my playstyle ngl. Thanks for the list and opinions

Is a stick worth using for mk1 or should I controller

I'm curious where the Hitbox Cross|Up would fall on your list.

30:07 this is something you realize playing piano for the first time

Blue Toad Rabbits. Started watching the video on my lunch break but decided to come back to it now that I'm chilling at home.

Thinking of getting a Qanba Drone. Sticks look so fun to play with.

Ngl I mained Goldlewis on hitbox for a while. It was actually pretty chill! It’s more of a timing challenge to get the inputs rather than the “motion” of your fingers. I think of the hitbox movement buttons as an upside down stick, and for some reason that clicked in my head to make the shape of the motions intuitive on hitbox

Really dig the content!

Blue Toad Rabbits - I was sent here to hear an opinion on different controllers from a friend. I recently got back into fighting games and haven't played one heavily since SF4. In close to middle age I'm not able to use a pad as it destroys my hand, and I need it for work (PS5 controllers DPad doesn't do this to me but that is a side note). I picked up a stick to get into fighting games and have come across the problem of a square stick vs an octagon stick's precision, and my shoulder tends to hurt after long sessions. So now I'm on the path of trying to learn a Hitbox variant and am going down the path of trying to learn that. The reason for mentioning these cons is the mention of fingers with the Hitbox and how other versions have similar problems that might catch someone off guard who is trying to learn the game.

Using D-pad + left stick feels weird at first, but you just do it for a while and it becomes second nature. It's not nearly as big of a shift as switching to keyboard type of movement, since they indeed function so similarly, it's not a new kind of job for your left thumb to wrap your head around. I kinda hate the bit my thumb has to travel, but whether they control the same thing or have a unique function, it feels really cool to flash between them and maybe even do a bit of claw. Also, one usually irrelevant mark against the PS5 controller: My god start and select sink into the controller. I always instead use the two buttons in the very center if possible.

Coming from a background of playing guitar, switching to hitbox/leverless has really helped me. The dexterity is kind of similar and I feel it makes the controls a lot more rythmic. I understand that due to the SOCD stuff, some things dont work how they would logically on stick/controller but my musician head has adapted and I see my combos more like playing a lick on the guitar now.

Blue Toed (or Toad) Rabbits. Started watching you cause if your inspirational grappler videos on DNF Duel. I’ve always liked grappler and watching you made me play him even more. Now I’m a regular viewer of your KZread videos and twitch streams because of that. Love your content!

Hi, I’m a GL main who plays hitbox, and I only wanted to state that after I heard the point mentioning it

A friend of mine in high school had a few versions of that SF4 fightpad. I used them a couple times and unfortunately didn't really end up caring for them. I first started playing on a 360 controller and then upgraded to an arcade stick a few years after. Comparing the two, I remember kinda hating the mushiness of the fightpad overall in comparison to a standard sanwa arcade stick. It was quieter, but it definitely was not as satisfying to work with. Anyway, there's my two cents. Love the channel Brine 👍🏻 Keep it up

Brian am I wrong for using a PS5 controller but playing with the analog stick for movement and inputs.

For the algorithm! I am glad that fighting games are more comfortable on console pads (and keyboard) now, it removes a big "perceived barrier" that you need a fight stick to play fighters.

BTW Brian did you know Problem X still uses a Hori Commander Fightpad? They seem to still used by a buncha people just not as sought out since regular pad abd hitbox and is much more co commonly known I guess?

im learning fighting games for the first time with sfv on keyboard mimicking hitbox, its been very difficult learning the inputs and learning to release my inputs at the right time. hoping to get a stick by the end of the year, not sure which one

@timestopMachinist

Жыл бұрын

@@watchmesquatch that shits mad expensive for a first stick. i made myself a fightstick out of a cardboard box a week or two ago and it works pretty well

In SFIV you also get synergy with plink and slide. If you do crMPLP plink with Gen, you can get hp hands by doing a very simple slide LP, MP, HP and ex hands with additional macro button at the end. Decapre crMK into LP hands you can doubletap+plink crMK with LP and then slide HP, MP, LP or you can slide from LP, MP, HP for heavy hands and macro into ex hands. Double tap and/or plink into a simple slide one way. Much easier to learn then alternative input methods...

updated list with keyboard for tekken 8 coming out

You can also use hitboxes with no SOCD. They don't have to be left + right = neutral. Left + right = neutral is just the most common one currently but i suspect that will change.

Blue Toad Rabbits, I was clicking around for the parts I was interested in XD Some comments on fight pads and non-Japanese sticks, two sections you didn't seem to know much about: The main benefit of a fight pad is that for games that let you map r3 and l3, you have easy access to all 10 buttons, and in SFV you make hitbox players cry with your extra functionalityᵗᵐ in training mode. Plus, some people really prefer the feel of floating d-pads or crosspads. Snake_Eyez is notoriously great at walking 720s on a floating d-pad, and ProblemX makes great use of a Hori Fighting Commander. As far as Korean Sticks go, the highest profile player to use one was Infiltration. While certainly a Persona Non Grata, it serves more as an example that you absolutely can have success playing on a Korean joystick at the highest level of street fighter. Korean joysticks are well represented across multiple games, and if a player is nostalgic for the feel of American joysticks, short collar Korean joysticks which are designed to fit inside Japanese enclosures are a great alternative to buying/fully assembling a stick on their own. Speaking of American sticks, there are considerable downsides in terms of assembly and availability. There are currently only a couple of preassembled commercial options, neither of which work on current gen consoles, so you better be happy using a screwdriver. Nonetheless, John Choi still rocks a MAS and he is the last American to win a Street Fighter EVO back in 08, so again personal preference is what's going to matter here.

the Gamo2 K28 will always be the top tier controller for me. it's a keyboard, has multiple profiles (mostly for rhythm games) that you can be free to try out and learn, 1 keyboard profile for pc, 2 FGC with SOCD included profiles, 4 customizable PS4 and 4 switch configurations where you can map any button on the board to any input you want (you can totally play WASD + hitbox up button).

How to keep people from checking your dashes on an arcade stick: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qId_lc-aoZupqc4.html

Curious why You didn’t mention keyboard or mix box.

It's possible to setup K levers for 2D play but they are definitely stock setup for 3D games like Tekken. The recoil and stuff he is talking about is the grommet tension system. Japanese levers like Sanwa use spring tension. I.e a literal spring that goes around the shaft that the actuator closes up and holds. With a k lever there is just a groove in the body that holds a large rubber grommet where the tension comes from you moving the shaft of the lever in the direction you want and it hits this grommet to pop back rather than a Sanwa spring style system that just uses the spring to snap back to neutral. So with different tension grommets, different sized shafts (i.e a smaller shaft with less diameter will have farther throw which means literally a farther motion you can move the lever with your hand with a larger deadzone before actuation of the switch). You can also have different sized actuators to effect the deadzone and how quickly you activate inputs and directions etc. If you see the Otto DIY kits people use on Sanwas the V2 is doing this. It's using a grommet tension system for your sanwa rather than a spring system.

No mayflash f300 elite edition?