Every woman in the country should support Kathleen.

@L_Martin

10 ай бұрын

@Marina E it does amaze me how women will vote against their interests by voting Labour or Green or Lib Dem. I will spoil my ballot rather than vote for them. I can’t bring myself to vote Tory.

@jacobcohen9205

10 ай бұрын

@Marina E Absolutely, I do.

@p.m.of4299

10 ай бұрын

Every woman in the world should support her.

@jacobcohen9205

10 ай бұрын

@@p.m.of4299 And man.

@nicholaswright3801

10 ай бұрын

⁠@Marina E i support Kathleen. 👍👍

We aren't cis women, we are women. We don't need the qualifier thanks.

@unwaw

10 ай бұрын

They don't just choose how to identify. They also choose how we should identity to accommodate them. What am actually F..

@benfisher1376

10 ай бұрын

It's utter madness. Also why are so many women eager to give over their identity out of politeness?

@sparagmos4748

10 ай бұрын

​@@benfisher1376Intersectional feminists😮

@benfisher1376

10 ай бұрын

@sparagmos4748 Yes, intersectionalist identity politics has a lot to answer for. Thanks America

@gdubrandomness

10 ай бұрын

Right! I can wear whatever I want, shave my head, act how I want, and I am still a woman!

He fumbles on his words because he’s unsure. She is eloquent and never falters. Facts vs Feelings.

@misterasterisco5217

13 күн бұрын

No, he is just young and unexperienced, whereas the interviewed dude is waaay older

@Kritikanbringer

6 күн бұрын

Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.

Oxford Union absolutely did the right thing in welcoming Kathleen Stock to this debate. That's what Student Unions are for, and those that tried to cancel her should be ashamed.

@marysnowie

7 ай бұрын

Totally agree, it took guts on their part, but they did it and should be praised for this. However prejudiced the interviewer and committee members can be.

@marivipalomino6975

7 ай бұрын

​@@marysnowieand they are indeed.

@VioletaValderasFuster

6 ай бұрын

completely agree

@parmavioIets

5 ай бұрын

oxford union is completely separate organisation from the oxford university STUDENT union lmfao

@martinanderson7464

5 ай бұрын

You are absolutely right, but my comment stands. Student Unions shouldn't be shouting down and deplatforming people whose opinions they disapprove of. The Oxford Union, albeit not the Oxford Student Union, set a good example.

Does anybody else despise the term "cis" as much as I do? Makes my skin crawl.

@nicholaswright3801

10 ай бұрын

Yep. I refuse to use it. I’m a man, adult human male, that’s it. 👍👍

@SatuSusanna

10 ай бұрын

Yes. I'm not a "cis woman", I'm a woman. An adult human female.

@janetmullender282

10 ай бұрын

How dare transgender activists rename the entirety of natal men and women just on their say so? On whose authority? If transgender people want to be accepted by the wider community they sure have an aggressive and obnoxious way of going about it.

@John-tl6vp

10 ай бұрын

Yes. They can pin whatever labels they like onto themselves but its got nothing to do with me.

@Iamnobody88884

10 ай бұрын

Yep. No one asked us did they?! They just stick it to us

Kathleen Stock is not some fringe fanatical bigot. She is a highly qualified academic whose views I would say are supported by well over half the population of the UK. She has every right to be heard, whether you agree with her or not. We are supposed to be living in a free and democratic country. We are not living in North Korea.

@paulondawula1011

10 ай бұрын

A highly qualified academic who is stating something pretty simple.

@lmfao69420

10 ай бұрын

@@Breakthechochamber But it certainly should be something that is allowed to be debated when at least half of society agrees with her. The other side will never convince anyone by silencing the majority. Also, the definition of bigoted: "obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." To me that sounds more like many trans activists.

@seraeggobutterworth5247

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber ​​⁠ The claim wasn’t that it made her correct; the point is that her attitudes and beliefs are, by definition, not fringe. The second point is that her credentials and mainstream POV make it entirely reasonable for her to participate in a forum such as this one. The idea that the OU shouldn’t have given her this platform because she’s supposedly a hateful loon spewing dangerous rhetoric is ridiculous.

@XKenny77

10 ай бұрын

@BreakthechochamberWhat precisely is "bigoted" about the belief that humans only come in two sexes and that sex can never change? What is bigoted about wanting men to be kept out of women's prisons, sports and other women's spaces? What is bigoted about reality? A "tu quoque" fallacy is only a fallacy if it's the only argument. It is a manifestly true observation that TRAs obstinately refuse to accept reason, logic and argument, and often act in violent, hateful and discriminatory towards gender atheists like Professor Stock and others.

@seraeggobutterworth5247

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber ​​⁠ Again, you’re arguing against claims nobody made. I said her _participation_ is reasonable.

Can you hear the hysteric mob of - I can't believe we have to call them that - Oxford University students outside the Union hall? I studied at Oxford and I am ashamed that the culture of free enquiry appears to have been utterly eradicated, catalysed by the self-serving and smug transgressions of diversity and inclusion officers.

@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns

10 күн бұрын

Protestors who engage in heckler’s veto and other intimidation tactics are bad people.

@louisewright1031

9 күн бұрын

May I ask, are the public allowed certain freedoms to walk around the grounds of Oxford University or would they have to be invited in by a current Student or Fellow ? I am having a hard time comprehending that what sounds to be a sizeable mob would be so prevalent at Oxford.

@clairee4939

9 күн бұрын

To be fair they probably all swarmed there to protest. I don’t suppose that they are all Oxford University students

I don’t know how she can bear the tsunami of hate that’s directed toward her. She’s a hero.

@alidabotes6264

10 ай бұрын

It's bc they don't have an logical argument.

@halfpintbuckaroo

10 ай бұрын

A real hero ❤

@uterushaver8309

10 ай бұрын

0:19: "Her book ..." with extra syllable between 'Material' and 'Girls'.

@jamiejosh96

10 ай бұрын

When you know the truth and have evidence behind you it’s easy to stand up for what’s right

@ainnochaim9450

10 ай бұрын

The fact that there are trans identified males outside screaming is evidence enough that these men are violent. They cant even let women speak without being aggressive. It is a very male reaction to a woman rejects their demands.

She is witty, articulate, level-headed, charismatic, calm, brave, fiercely intelligent... everything those who try to silence and attack her are not. Thank you Kathleen for a brilliant talk. 😊🎉

@helenalovelock1030

6 ай бұрын

She’s so dull

@biggregg5

5 ай бұрын

​@@helenalovelock1030 I don't think so.

Can schools & universities focus on creating more Kathleen Stock’s please!? Such an articulate and honest inspiration 🙏🏻😎👌

what a strong brave woman, shame on the people trying to silence her

@andrewcalladine2507

10 ай бұрын

Well done to you for following Stock down the manufactured panic rabbit hole. We can add you to the list of transphobes.

@anp.exe777

10 ай бұрын

⁠@@andrewcalladine2507 this comment is hilarious said nothing about trans people in my comment just that i admire this woman’s strength and ability to speak so well despite people trying to silence her, she has a right to speak whether you agree or not. As they stated that’s what the union is about, think there have been way more controversial people speak in the past. But yeah sorry who knows i’m just transphobic right

@benh8457

10 ай бұрын

@@andrewcalladine2507Being labeled a transphobe has lost all meaning. If anything it’s now a label of common sense.

@egapnala65

10 ай бұрын

@@andrewcalladine2507 Though, of course, queer theorists and their sympathisers declare that age of consent laws are also down to a manufactured moral panic so we can just call that assertion tactical rather than factual.

@bene9472

10 ай бұрын

​@@andrewcalladine2507and well done to you for not bothering with such inconveniences as facts and evidence!

‘Why should females take this burden on?’ Exactly! So unfair to women and girls. Kathleen Stock talks absolute common sense.

@nonyab3843

8 ай бұрын

Im not taking anything on. I am a women, i revignize trans women, but have yet to meet one that could regrain from mansplaining things.

@irishcajun85

3 ай бұрын

Yep. That part summed the entire thing up. When they talk about the harm to trans women in men’s bathrooms, it reminds me of the ‘what was she wearing’ argument. Women are expected to take on the role of motherly and empathetic to everyone, while men are allowed to essentially be seen as roving beasts, and instead of addressing that, we have to let the ones that dress like us, in our bathrooms. And we are expected to take the blame if any harm comes to them by protecting ourselves.

It's not just about male patterns of violence. It's actually also the basic comfort and dignity for females in their own spaces.

@HerWanderlust

9 ай бұрын

Yes. It should not be up to us to defend our space from men, we said no, it’s a clear boundary with no explanations necessary

@Kritikanbringer

6 күн бұрын

Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.

She’s brilliant, and absolutely did not deserve to lose her job. Parts of our world have lost their minds. How she still has her mind with all the wailing and abuse being sent her way, is remarkable. Cheers to Kathleen and also to the Oxford Union for inviting her under huge controversy.

She's so clear and for her to be seen by a group as some sort of monster is genuinely bananas.

@ReverendDr.Thomas

10 ай бұрын

Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

@steven_king

10 ай бұрын

It’s absolutely nuts. I believe these people are terrorists after what they did to her. I believe that’s why everyone is so afraid to speak out, too. Someone needs to create a #StopTransTerrorism hashtag.

@rosskirkwood8411

10 ай бұрын

The crowd outside…I wonder how many will watch what they are protesting?

@rosskirkwood8411

10 ай бұрын

@@steven_king The crowd outside…I wonder how many will watch what they are protesting?

@davidcooper8892

10 ай бұрын

Cultural Marxism If it doesn’t stop, our lives will

It's not just about violence against women, dude. It's about women's FEELINGS. Feeling anxious, uncomfortable, embarrassed... whatever reason women might not want men in our spaces is reason enough for them not to be there. Why can't they use the gents? Oh, don't tell me...it's because of their damn feelings, right? Well then, let them campaign for their own spaces instead of invading ours.

@user-ye6ed6cg4g

10 ай бұрын

Right on sis. And adding to that, why is it the burden of women to prove the statistics of harm in bathrooms, and yet no statistical proof is required for harm to trans identified men in male bathroom?.

@shiellaneeza

10 ай бұрын

Hear, hear.Don't forget religious women who can't share single sex spaces with males who are not their relatives. Women should have their own single sex spaces even if the threat of violence does not exist.

@formulaic78

10 ай бұрын

It's not only because of their feelings it's because of the very real threat of harm. When I first started noticing this trans surge, I saw a sickening video of two women beating the crap out of a trans woman for using the women's bathroom. However, with that said I don't think the solution is for society to be completely upended to negate the danger that trans women may face in their own toilets. Instead the vitriol currently being aimed at women such as yourself standing up for women's rights, should be directed at the 1% of men that would react to finding a bloke in a dress in a toilet with violence. And the male allies of the trans women seeking to use women's spaces, could expend their energy in threatening any male they see demeaning a trans woman in the toilet of their sex.

@Primalxbeast

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, having naked men in women's locker rooms watching women change is a sex crime even if they don't physically touch the women.

@CatrionaRuadh

10 ай бұрын

Women and girls also have a right to dignity and privacy and must never be forced to share private spaces with men! Our rights have been rolled back by this ideology.

Let's just all pause for a second and admire how brilliant Prof. Kathleen is

@user-lp8kx8sk1j

10 ай бұрын

Let me "un-pause" your sycophantic adulation for a moment to point out that she has based her entire work on fear-based assumptions, not evidence. Facts don't bear out her claims of danger to women in restrooms and changing rooms. Data, on the other hand, does point out that trans-people are in grave danger of attacks and even murder if they are forced to use "gender-conforming" spaces such as restrooms and changing rooms. Maybe you admire Goebbels too...? He sounded pretty smart from time to time...

@Joe-og6br

10 ай бұрын

She sounds really nervous at the start. It must be horrible knowing a bunch of men dressed as women want you dead.

@e.d9424

9 ай бұрын

I am so paused 🙏 never heard of her before tonight, will buy the book, such refreshing common sense, bravo.

@ecstanton8385

8 ай бұрын

Yeah...she's like the second coming

@brentblair9403

8 ай бұрын

@@ecstanton8385 of what…?? Ill-informed transphobic confirmation bias rhetoric clothed in intellectual doublespeak?

i got a good chuckle when she said "...so, im afraid im going to have to push back on that" after systematically deconstructing the interviewers loaded statement. what a class act.

@85parrot

7 ай бұрын

"I have absolutely no counter argument but I feel uncomfortable with the truth"

This whole speech makes those who are protesting outside sound stupid

@bkilg2509

10 ай бұрын

Mat Walsh makes them look stupid.... its apparently quite easy 🤭

@rosemaryalles6043

10 ай бұрын

Yes.

@bepitan

10 ай бұрын

those outside protesting are kids ... it will take some time but eventually they will all come to realise how ridiculous their stance is....alternatively they will continue into additional higher education.

@jameystone2650

10 ай бұрын

@@bepitan Um Kathleen Stock is in higher education so am I and my partner and we agree 100% with her. You can't categorize -- that's a very simplistic way of thinking.

@bepitan

10 ай бұрын

@@jameystone2650 ..well it was obviously a humorous quip..but there are some career students who will do anything to avoid growing up and going out into the real world, they just end up sticking around to formulate university policy instead.

Kathleen Stock is a honest, decent, compassionate, articulate and intelligent woman.

@ChrisInTheNorth

10 ай бұрын

Actually, she is a spreader of mistrust.

@benhall2235

10 ай бұрын

@@ChrisInTheNorth how? She’s pragmatic. Did you watch this video?

@brookewalford6428

10 ай бұрын

And, importantly has a sense of humour.

@smon4164

10 ай бұрын

@@benhall2235 She's not pragmatic, I'm all for people having the freedom to say what they want but she doesn't have any solutions to anything. Her entire intellectual existence is based on a bunch of grievances she has with the existence of transgender people, but no whiff of any sort of real world solutions. It's the complete opposite of pragmatism haha.

@markrussell3428

10 ай бұрын

@@benhall2235 I watch it in its entirety. It was excellent and she was clear and coherent. What didn't you like?

Stock is pretty great here. Tide is definitely turning on this debate. These activists and their allies just seem like regressive, religious bullies that think sexist stereotypes are sacrosanct.

@josephkolodziejski6882

10 ай бұрын

I see that, yet again, a KZread video on trans issues has it most upvoted comment seemingly in ignorance of what's actually in the video. I don't think you actually watched it. It was a neutral and to be honest, quite dull conversation. Many points and criticism were made vice versa and agreed on in a very professional manner. Frankly the part where the heavily disabled man was speaking was a million times more awkward. There is an age difference issue in the debaters as well. Where are these activists that you speak of? Point out to me when they appear in this video and explain where the 'bad behaviour' is.

@euanmacleod3738

10 ай бұрын

@@josephkolodziejski6882 Think OP was referring to what was taking place outside - I'm going to assume you probably know that.

@josephkolodziejski6882

10 ай бұрын

@@euanmacleod3738 Changing context are we? What the actual proportion of the 'problematic' trans activists out there?

@NekoShmeko

10 ай бұрын

@@josephkolodziejski6882the vast majority are problematic. The men showing up to women’s events in balaclavas threatening, following and screaming misogynist abuse at women and girls are probably the worst.. but the rhetoric is sexist and homophobic in general. You’re deviating from the point of the comment deliberately because you don’t have an argument. It’s obvious which side is rational and not abusive. Sorry, bullying isn’t going to work anymore.

@euanmacleod3738

10 ай бұрын

@@josephkolodziejski6882 Changing context? What? Assuming you are aware of the context, what is being changed? There were activists outside the debate, anyone who has followed this story is aware of that, and OP was referring to them. What are you trying to contest here? To your second question, I am going to assume you are paraphrasing 'problematic' to summarise OP's complaints - 'religious bullies' etc? We have no way of knowing what proportion of the trans activists 'out there' would match that definition - but we also know there is a vocal amount above the number of 0 who have behaved in ways to match OP's description. Anyone who behaves that way probably deserves some amount of pushback - and it's on them to amend their behaviour.

This is what happens in a youth-obsessed culture where we let 20-somethings drive social discourse. There is no wisdom, no nuance, only ideology. This woman is an intellectual titan compared with her audience. They should be humbled.

@montycobra

8 ай бұрын

They are not driving - they are riding it.

@annieslocumoneill2413

7 ай бұрын

You are absolutely right! This is not an invention of the "20-somethings/youth culture." @@montycobra

@donpietruk1517

7 ай бұрын

The 20 something's are the cannon fodder of the revolution. When their purpose is fulfilled they will meet the same fate as the foot soldiers of Mao's cultural revolution.

@montycobra

7 ай бұрын

You have no idea what you are talking about, literally -- you don't know meanings of words. @@donpietruk1517

@bryn3652

7 ай бұрын

​@@donpietruk1517Yet they can't see they are being used.

its not just about sexaul assualts, women and girls dont want some bloke seeing them undress even if he claims to feel like a woman

@MarthaAnthony

5 ай бұрын

Sometimes I don't want to be judged by men either - always sized up, assessed if I am attractive, trying to interpret interactions or fend off advances or fight to be taken seriously, especially in male domains. It's exhausting. We need a break sometimes.

@ttttttttttttttttist

5 ай бұрын

@@MarthaAnthony I agree, I don't want to get changed in front of women either, these weirdos are the only ones who want to mingle and expose themselves in locker rooms

@MarthaAnthony

5 ай бұрын

@@ttttttttttttttttist Exactly. They behave completely unlike women then demand we think of them as women and not question their motivation.

@Nico5890

Ай бұрын

Absolutely. Exhibitionism and voyeurism are the two most common s--ual crimes. Opportunity and access are the KEY factors in these crimes. And of course, women aren't supported even reporting such crimes-- the YMCA in the U.S. has now banned multiple female customers as "transphobes" after reporting men in dresses doing such crimes in locker rooms. It is a terrible time to be a woman.

@Kritikanbringer

6 күн бұрын

Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.

“Nobody seems to care about the women…. and that’s what I care about.”🙏❤️Thank you Kathleen Stock

God she's good at de-escalation

Absolutely amazing woman. What she says makes absolute sense and very reasonable. She is a credit to her profession and the way that she has been cast out and misrepresented is awful. I will probably buy her book now.

@nursen2106

6 ай бұрын

reason...? sure? she did not bing in all the factors, becaus those she couldn't answer. no need to be hateful agains her, but for sure, she is not the peao of intelligencia - implying everybody else is only agenda driven and didn't think about this topic at all.

@cosettapessa6417

6 ай бұрын

@@nursen2106all the activists have the agenda. Not all trans are activists.

@nursen2106

6 ай бұрын

@@cosettapessa6417 sorry, that is not true. the big mouth polititions and institutions have the agende. and they then pick, what they call 'activists' - don't fall for the big fat ly, as if there would be a homogenous activist group. but, when people react publicly to something one person or a small group said or initiated, they give the bit impression of an 'agenda'. the agenda is in other peopls hands and they are the ones telling tales about global agendas, that often are just made up and a phantasma

32:55 "When you get lost in the fiction and you can't talk about reality anymore we've got a problem." Yes! Thank you Ms Kathleen Stock.

@nursen2106

6 ай бұрын

she is ignoring a certain reality that is out there herself and has no answer for that. just her pointing finger on the part, that she herself does not agree with and found her own arguments for. have you ever met a person, who really is a trans person by birth, re-discovering what happened to her as baby, when she was operated, so she become a she, because the he side of her was underdeveloped? then in the 30s due to homon problems learn about all this, and have to decide, how you want to continue your gender, because your sex is inconclusiv? does she have answers for that? no. so don't gloryfy her. she is not the only one in the word, with brains, but others may have more access to other factors. and she does not respond to those. it is a tough topic and it is hard. in discussions like this and in real live. but it is not that easy, as some would like to have it. discuss and don't outcast people for bringing in discussions. but don't treat some like saints and the peak of intellekt.

@crym77

6 ай бұрын

@@nursen2106 A man who wants to be a woman and cuts off his genitals is not a woman.

@Qq-xs1fz

6 ай бұрын

@@nursen2106 Exactly. She's high on her intellectualism and privilege and impervious to parts of reality. Until it knocks at her door - there are still many who believe same-sex relationships are fiction...

@nursen2106

Ай бұрын

@@rachelc6443 you are wrong. this topic was touched. and this group of intersex people - calling themseves transgender!!! are the ones, that originally started the discussionn. and if what you say is right, then it is even worth.. because they ignore the core issue and waste time on those, who may or may not have psycological issues to identify clearly. but your are wong, when you think, this discussion with Ms Stock would no effect/include exactly those, who cannot identify transgender by birth design. exactly because, they cannot identify with sex maybe exact by dna but not organically or the other way around. she is ignoring exactly that. it cannot be, that a society discusses gender issues and expecting in daily live there is the clarity of the fact, if a person right infront of you identifies trans or not is by design or by choice!

Dr. Stock has far more patience than I have! She is a hero!

Can we agree that the disgraceful misogyny and religious nonsense from trans activists is wearing VERY thin in public discourse?

@frusia123

10 ай бұрын

They know that, that's why they don't want a public debate and want to cancel everyone who is trying to debate.

@adamthemyth

10 ай бұрын

pride comes before a fall

@frjohn413

10 ай бұрын

Yes to everything except your use of the word "religious." "Ideological" would be more accurate.

@ibitron1

10 ай бұрын

Aye, but believing that someone can actually be born in the wrong body as opposed to just feeling like they are in the wrong body is akin to religious belief.

@frjohn413

10 ай бұрын

@@ibitron1 You're anchoring your assertion in the notion of belief. And while it is true that religion and ideology are both closely related to belief, "ideological" is more accurate because the anthropological assumptions undergirding gender ideology derive from philosophy (Firestone, Derrida, Foucault, Butler, etc), as opposed to religion.

Absolute best moment of the debate 30:30 when Stock said: "Make up your mind when you want to, but I have thought about it and I've come to a conclusion"

@jeremywilson2875

7 ай бұрын

I really liked the last response, when she pushed back on the idea that doing anything other than affirming a child's trans feeling and providing drugs/surgery is harmful. Especially given that autism/anxiety/trauma/eating disorders/being gay/social pressures are often underlying causes, and that transitioning can lead to lifelong medical problems and regret.

@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559

7 ай бұрын

He comes across as arrogant, naive and foolish.

@Lukeruffner

5 ай бұрын

Hands down the best part of the debate was 33:15

It’s absurd that there’s a man up there advocating for men in women’s bathroom.

@Kritikanbringer

6 күн бұрын

Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.

That long applause when Stock came in the room, was heartwarming.

@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs

10 ай бұрын

Yes 😊

@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs

10 ай бұрын

1:01 ⬅️ start 👏👏👏

@lilyweatherwax3773

10 ай бұрын

Yes! 🥰

@ohwellwhateverr

10 ай бұрын

And clearly sent her detractors into a hormonal rage.

@patwicksted7114

10 ай бұрын

I got very emotional hearing the applause for this wonderful woman.

As a woman who's been sexually assaulted having a safe space in the bathroom or changing room is necessary. Woman who have been traumatized by men can be re traumatized by having any kind of man in the bathroom where they feel vulnerable. It's that simple.

@rafalrafal3469

10 ай бұрын

Do you feel only in the bathroom vunerable?

@rafalrafal3469

10 ай бұрын

I am from poland and we often have Changing rooms for both genders there. And the most woman feel much safer because of this.

@GraceCanadaful

10 ай бұрын

@@rafalrafal3469 - most women ? Speak for yourself.

@rafalrafal3469

10 ай бұрын

@@GraceCanadaful yes. Not all woman are mentaly ill or traumatized. The most are not

@thunkjunk

10 ай бұрын

What are the statistics of trans-women being assaulted in Men's bathrooms or changing rooms? And if trans-women refuse to go into Men's restrooms because they don't feel safe, then how come nobody takes women seriously when they don't feel safe when men are allowed in women's bathrooms or changing rooms?

I'm concerned for her physical safety. Male transgender activists assaulting women is unfortunately not unheard of.

@presterjohn9088

7 ай бұрын

Violence on the far left is not limited to men. Look at any of the hundreds of videos of far left groups, trans activists included and you'll see that when violence does occur women are often involved and even the instigators. Check the mugshots of people arrested for violence at demonstrations and other activities and you'll see a lot of female faces. From antifa to BLM to trans activists the far left have said for years now that violence against those they deem "fascists" is not only acceptable but necessary. Having said that I'm worried for her safety as well.

@undertheriverstone

Ай бұрын

Yes, Lierre Keith and others were attacked.

She has completely changed my mind over all of this.... let people live exactly how they want... but to let anyone access female spaces without question is absolutely crazy... the amount of sexual abuse the average woman has to deal with in our society... its too idealistic to think that this would work without people taking advantage and many many women be put at risk.

@thistles

8 ай бұрын

Well done you for being willing to examine dogma!

@tartanhandbag

8 ай бұрын

i know, i know ...that's why we don't let gay men into straight spaces coz of all the buggery and paedophilia that could occur ...oh, wait, we actually don't do that (any more) coz it's an irrational fear that gay men pose a disproportionate risk of being rapists and paedophiles (but certainly a myth that was happily propagated by the bigots of the 60s and 70s). give it another 10-20 years and we'll get there with trans people too (either through the gradual trickle down of public discussion or the dying out of old people who can't wrap their head around something they perceive as new)

@FR0STBL0D

8 ай бұрын

"the amount of sexual abuse the average woman has to deal with in our society" ... you might want to compare that to the amount of sexual abuse the average trans person has to deal with, don't you?

@tartanhandbag

8 ай бұрын

The discussion does not revolve around allowing "anyone" access to female spaces. It's about allowing trans women access to women's spaces. Trans women are not "anyone". Stop conflating cis men with trans women. Jesus wept. To suggest that a very small number of trans women existing in women's spaces would cause "many many women" to be at risk, you have to think that trans women pose some kind of special, disproportionate threat. That, in essence, is transphobic.

@thistles

8 ай бұрын

@@tartanhandbag Men pose a disproportionate threat to women, whether they identify as trans or not.

How she kept her cool and could think and respond despite all that wailing outside was incredible. What a woman.

@Johnconno

10 ай бұрын

Wailing with a lisp. Oxford...

@m__f__k

10 ай бұрын

Only 5 mins in and it’s disturbing the noise they are making.

@transitionsnc

10 ай бұрын

I thought the same thing.

@VaughanMcCue

10 ай бұрын

@@m__f__k Sad but true. Adults who want to have a mature discussion go inside and the kids go play outside.

@burleybater

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely. And I am constantly amazed that the safety of women, girls and children is constantly required now to take a back seat for the "comforts" of a very miniscule minority. And one other thing. The idea that the threat, and the danger is practically non-existent. Knowing that any male creep with criminal intent can simply declare himself female in the moment, gain access to female spaces and commit crimes against females, and then on top of it all, choose a female incarceration facility to work off his time. All of this being borrowed from what is the combined most vulnerable portion of society. We've lost our minds.

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that, regardless of the possibility of sexual violence, women just don't want men around when they're getting undressed.

@debjane7

10 ай бұрын

Exactly, women and girls want safety, privacy and dignity away from men.

As someone who isn't from a "western country", I'm really confused why she has to be canceled.

I felt the awkwardness in the room when the disabled man came and spoke, but Kathleen handled the situation with class and empathy

@geoffsparks2588

5 ай бұрын

I sensed the relief that everyone felt when he walked away finally.

@geoffsparks2588

5 ай бұрын

relief embodied as clapping.

@sammoreton333

2 ай бұрын

I was falling asleep just listening to the audio and I thought someone was trolling her at first

@scottcharney1091

Ай бұрын

How did she understand what he said? I understood perhaps ten words.

@user-ly3cr4bt7b

14 күн бұрын

You gotta give it to the man, that was brave of him.

The young people leading the Oxford Union deserve enormous respect. Not only did they stand up to the mob, but they prepared well to have a deeply thought through debate. It's called being an adult and they are clearly well ahead of their peers in being ready for the real world. Well done.

@glebedigital4654

10 ай бұрын

here here :)

@eola8

10 ай бұрын

Indeed 👏👏👏

@lunawoodsxx

10 ай бұрын

Totally agree, it's very refreshing to see from young people and fills me with hope.

@andyiswonderful

10 ай бұрын

I liked how everyone let the others talk, and not interrupt, or try to create a "gotcha" moment. Trans activists have a "no debate" policy, which is why there are none at this debate, I assume. I suspect that they are unable to debate this topic in a calm, rational manner, and deep down, they know perfectly well that their arguments just do not hold up to intellectual scrutiny.

@dutchjack

10 ай бұрын

In what sense do they not live in the real world?

How this woman has become vilified is absolutely shocking , she’s very measured, reasonable and makes total sense .

@LukaMagda1

10 ай бұрын

Well, making sense has always been a great threat to totalitarian ideologies.

@Dienekes678

10 ай бұрын

And those same degenerates that are hounding this woman dare to speak of intolerance? Imagine hating the truth!?

@michaelfry4513

10 ай бұрын

because gender ideolgy requires absolute dogmatic compliance if its not to fall apart. if anyone steps out of line, even if measured and reasonable, it breaks the illusion of hegemony

@DavidGraeberWasRight

10 ай бұрын

@@michaelfry4513 wow thats a very many large amount of big words there!. There is no such thing as "gender idology" except in the minds of mumsnet users. Whatever "ideology" its prescribing - if anything - is ambiguiity about sex/gender/whatever. You've clearly never listened to any opposing views. To say there is a hegemony it totally unhinged. Not sure you know what that word means

@michaelfry4513

10 ай бұрын

@@DavidGraeberWasRight saying something doesn't exist doesn't make it not exist. Just like saying that you are something doesn't mean you are. If using big words is difficult you to comprehend let me use small words.. I'm.. not.. interested.. in.. what.. you.. think.. Good day

Professor, I am glad that you asked him "What do you mean by gender?". He could not answer the question and is an apt example of the irrationality and chaos of the identity culture. Well done professor.

@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904

5 ай бұрын

There is an equivalence in your example. However it’s not that nobody could answer it. It’s that those from a particular ideological stance couldn’t answer “what is a woman” without tautological reasoning.

This is so frustrating. There have been 2 sexes for millions of years. It's not Kathleen Stock's reality. She is being so patient.

The mediator asked very convoluted and garbled questions. She handled them very well. Anyway, important that people like Stock get a platform to speak out in public. Well done to Oxford Union for hosting her.

@Johnconno

10 ай бұрын

The mediator? Do you mean the boy with glasses and an adenoid infection?

@carols4013

10 ай бұрын

The interviewer was out of his depth.

@private_soul

10 ай бұрын

Yeh the interviewer could have cut if short...and said the same thing on a shorter way. But likes putting in long convoluted sentences

@watkins8256

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, the tens of thousands of pounds spent on his education, and he still couldn't ask an intelligent question?

@andyrainford5728

10 ай бұрын

@@Johnconno Yes the Jacob Rees-Mogg/Jack Whitehall impersonator

A university professor being escorted by a security guard into the Oxford union while what I assume are students outside shouting/demonstrating. What madness.

@a.t.c.3862

10 ай бұрын

🦁✡️

@princemishkin1601

10 ай бұрын

Yes these "protestors" are more like modern Brown Shirts. They have all of the self righteousness of fascists, and outside of name, are largely indistinguishable from them.

@Pazzystar

9 ай бұрын

It's lovely, I don't want the young to conform anymore.

@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat

9 ай бұрын

@@Pazzystar You can not conform without being a bully who tries to destroy people's lives when they disagree with you.

@aliasofanalias7448

9 ай бұрын

That's Oxford for you, bunch of entitled bow ties mostly

Professor Stock, what a joy is to hear you speak beautifully, articulately non-violently, compassionately and rationally on this topic. So many activists do not comport themselves about this as you do. Pleasure hearing you. Can't wait to read your book.

As a women Trans people going into private women's public spaces is an invasion of my privacy, i respect others but no one is respecting me . I feel very offended being referred to as a cis women , no such thing. I am a women end of story.

@ytcomms3945

7 ай бұрын

You keep describing yourself in plural ... so it appears that you are more than one woman.

@oliviamaynard9372

7 ай бұрын

I don't invade your privacy. That's silly

@ytcomms3945

7 ай бұрын

@@oliviamaynard9372 but you might invade other women's privacy if they house you in their dorms in prison, homeless shelter, or even inexpensive shared hotel rooms ... 9f course other women invade each other's privacy too in those arrangements so better not to get into such situations if privacy matters.

@oliviamaynard9372

7 ай бұрын

@ytcomms3945 I invade no one's privacy. It's never been an issue and I use women's space every day

@ytcomms3945

7 ай бұрын

@@oliviamaynard9372 good for you ... perhaps many of those women are too polite to complain so they just leave quietly if you are thinking of public restrooms and other dressing areas like the gym for example. I would not complain in prison for example ... but I saw some woman complain in a public dining area ..then big dude-lady threw a table at her with such force that the police had to be called.

How does the potential for harm to trans women i.e men, in the male changing rooms/loos become the responsibility of women. It is for men to question any violence committed in male spaces to trans women. Their behaviour should change.

@brendadarling7743

10 ай бұрын

Exactly

@marjoriekaye9336

10 ай бұрын

"Women are responsible for whatever men do" - 1st rule of misogyny

@annab704

10 ай бұрын

Exactly !!!

@formulaic78

10 ай бұрын

It took me a long time to come to this conclusion and I've been thinking about the T issue for a long time and have even wrote a book on it. While I have no doubt that trans women could feel intimidated by some prejudiced men in men's bathrooms, if society is going to be upended by people demanding transwomen use the women's bathrooms, with half the population or more being labelled bigots with the expectation that we change our way of thinking, then it's actually far easier for 95% of the population to shame the 5% of actual bigots (maybe less in terms of those who would physically harm a trans woman using the men's bathroom) into changing their behaviour. So you're spot on in your far less wordy analysis!

@euanmacleod3738

10 ай бұрын

The real threat of violence posed by men in this question is heavily overstated, but even if there was no violence whatsoever would not change the basic 'need' the trans person will feel towards entering the space that validates, rather than confronts, their 'identity'. I think we can all sympathise with that and acknowledge they would be personally happier and personally far more distressed between the different options, but that doesn't mean women must make concessions to their own, distinct, needs. Really the issue here is that the TRA movement pushed too hard in wanting these spaces thrown open to anyone with simply an implied sense of 'identity' - where we already were with people who 'passed' as their chosen gender accessing these spaces without incident was fine. No one is ever going to genital check people at the door to these spaces, but the space does need to discern people who present obviously as male from entering, otherwise the space isn't discerning at all.

Kathleen stock we love you. Thankyou for your strength in doing this

How brave of her to conduct herself in such a humble and calm manner, with that mob of deranged zealots outside, baying for her blood. Bravo 👏

She has legendary patience and lives in a world where language is tethered to physical reality and to norms of shared space. The questioner, on the other hand, is deploying a vocabulary with no listening, no acknowledgement. Free-floating vocabulary free of all measurement is the new language of rights.

I'm in awe of this woman. Poised, articulate, logical, intelligent, firm. She wiped the floor with those arriving with the predictable hyperbole. Thank you Kathleen for your incredible spine. A pivotal moment in the evolution of this ideology.

@nathan87

10 ай бұрын

All, by the way, with a crowd outside audibly baying for her blood.

@claireharris8784

10 ай бұрын

I was about to say the same. The host and questioners all seemed incoherent in comparison to her.

@cnrspiller3549

10 ай бұрын

She was tremendous. But I applaud the host too. It cannot have been easy jousting with her when: 1. She was more familiar with the subject matter 2. She was older and more confident and 3. His arguments were, and had to be by definition, bat-shit crazy. I thought he did a bloody good job. If he was my son, I'd have been very proud... and then I'd given him a serious talking to about the dangers of mind viruses and cults. Bright lad.

@nickpharo5300

10 ай бұрын

She was my professor! Great woman! Really lovely. Shame she got bullied out of my university by children

@ReverendDr.Thomas

10 ай бұрын

​@@nickpharo5300, Great and lowly are RELATIVE. 😉 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

I’ve read Material Girls and I’ve heard her interviewed at length on a number of occasions and I think Kathleen Stock is an honest and sensible voice. It seems to me many of her critics have based their criticism on heresay, rather than any real familiarity with her work and actual opinions.

@LH-kr4od

10 ай бұрын

The people vilifying her don't read books!

@ApacheMagic

10 ай бұрын

This happens in most hotly contested topics. The number one problem is people believing what is said about someone and don’t listen to their actual truth.

@elahrairahz

10 ай бұрын

It is always the way. It was the same with Jordan Peterson.

Again, Kathleen Stock is brilliantly clear and intelligent. I wish the interviewer would stop using the term "Cis man". Why should biological men now have to redefine themselves as Cis to create a distinction? surely the terms "Trans man" and "man" denote the difference. ~And of course "trans woman" and "woman".

She’s incredibly brave to speak out, and so articulate.

@Qq-xs1fz

6 ай бұрын

A slightly more refined version of Jordan P. :).

the guy askes overtly complicated questions and Professor Stock answers in plain, easy to understand English, well done Professor Stock, It was great to hear her talk.

I don't recognise the term Cis, there is no cis man or woman, it's simply man or woman end of.

@Incandescence555

10 ай бұрын

Welcome to the jungle of reality lol

@BluCheese369

10 ай бұрын

I agree 🙏

@cloudberry27

10 ай бұрын

Or natural born women and men.

@RunOfTheHind

10 ай бұрын

99.5% doesn't need a category.

@lilyovererrantjam9397

10 ай бұрын

apparently it's now natal men and cis women because, you know, respect men

Its never good when the guy attacking you says "i can't answer any of those questions." She is approaching this ropic scientifically and from a socialiological standpoint and this guy is just throwing emotion at her with no actual data or clear questions.

@llimettime

7 ай бұрын

Stick to orthodontics

@westarvadaorthodontics1162

5 ай бұрын

@@llimettime that's my wife. I'm a physician. You know the kind that deals with hormones and human physiology and has to help people make these decisions. But speaking of orthodontics our transgender patients have to make hard decisions because both hormone blockers and HRT effect bone remodeling And therefore jaw development and tooth movement. So even though I'm just a regular old surgeon I am actually sticking to orthodontics in the comment. I think one of has read all the research and the few books on the matter and actually has trans patients and one of us is a troll on youtube.

Re bathrooms: it's not just about the risk of sexual violence (also flashing, voyeurism and being filmed), it's also about the comfort of women. If women know there are no bathroom facilities in public spaces where there are no male bodied people and if where they see a male bodied person they cannot legally challenge that person, then many women will self exclude from public spaces. They will be back on the urinary leash. We campaign for safe female bathrooms in lower income countries, but now expect women in the western countries to share with any man who declares himself to be a woman, no matter his appearance. It's utterly batshit bonkers.

You are a hero of our times Kathleen. We must stay based in reality and also protect women & children

@markkamp2255

10 ай бұрын

what about men for goodness sake?! Stop blaming men, it’s a cheap and easy strategy

@taylorlaing294

10 ай бұрын

@@markkamp2255 where in my comment do I mention “men?”

@sparagmos4748

10 ай бұрын

​@@markkamp2255Don't feel so attacked - many of the TRAs are clearly biological females - though probably rarely 'identify' as such!😂

@everything5066

9 ай бұрын

@@taylorlaing294 ikr! This is madness

I admire this LADYS strength. If the suffragettes were here today...who side would they be on. Fearless women is what we need.

@ohmymcmc

10 ай бұрын

They would be the mistresses of the suffragettes husband demanding more attention and money or she'll stamp her heels together an give the silent treatment to the married man.

Kathleen Stock is someone to be admired.

At 58:28 the questioner states: "out of over 100 cases of sexual assault within prisons, only 5 were committed by transgender prisoners" and says that seems a small proportion. Only if transgender people make up 5 percent of the prison population. Are one out of twenty people in prison trans? Statistics without complete information can be misleading.

All strength to Kathleen Stock. She is a paradigm of reasonableness; it’s almost as if everyone else is in a parallel universe. Or the Spanish Inquisition.

Brilliant as ever. I'm not surprised that there are activists with opposing views who seek to silence Kathleen Stock. She is calm, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, sensible and erudite.

@cloudberry27

10 ай бұрын

And beautiful.

@davetkd666

10 ай бұрын

Exacltt what they are terrified of. She has the potential to appeal to the moderates. The extremes on the other side can be dismissed as extremists (in theroy) where as cathleen's position is far capable of bulldozing extreme.gender ideology. In a certain sense she is indeed far more dangerous (to a fragile arguement)

@alonehere6563

10 ай бұрын

Here, here.

@LH-kr4od

10 ай бұрын

Not only that but she's an actual lesbian who has to listen to these troons appropriating her sexuality in the name of LGBTQ+ in order to attack her and other women and dismantle safeguarding.

@Kbyr083

10 ай бұрын

Yes and she isn’t insulting. It is very difficult to demonise her, unlike some other commentators. She isn’t extremist or inflammatory at all.

I admire Kathleen Stock's courage and integrity.

It’s extremely refreshing to see this debated in a university. Sadly universities today are not places of debate which is an absolute travesty!!

It is not the RESPONSIBILITY of women to shelter and safe guard men who say they FEEL like women from other men. This is a fight between men. This is not the responsibility of women. We are busy with every other issue; this is not our responsiblity.

@85parrot

7 ай бұрын

What a good point. I'd never thought of that.

@mareezy

7 ай бұрын

Exactly, trans women aka biological MEN should be complaining of WHY can't they safely use a men's bathroom? They should complain with men. This is a man vs man issue. Why throwing it on the women

What a loss for Sussex University. I’d have been privileged to have been taught by Professor Stock.

@lasttango7522

10 ай бұрын

I agree entirely. I would have embraced her teachings. A wonderful compassionate human being.

It is astonishing how bankrupt is the trans activist argument when subjected to a mild criticism

@mossfitz

10 ай бұрын

It falls down on every level in terms of logic or rationality - even on its own terms very often. That is why the efforts to prevent discussion were so vehement. Many of the 'prime-movers' know damned well that it is an anti-liberation, anti-tolerance movement riding on the back of a genuine liberation movement. That is exactly its appeal to the petty tyrant that is somewhere there in all of us - something which apparently cannot be resisted by most people with any sort of authority. A Christian theologian I discussed this with was of the opinion that any laws compelling recognition of chosen gender actually go further than Taliban compelled religion - because religion at least is a postulation about the world whereas trans ideology involves compelling adherence to a postulation, about subjective experience and the very essence of what a person is, to which very few people or philosophies would suscribe

@aaronsmyth7943

10 ай бұрын

Frightening is the word. And it's not how bankrupt the argument is, it's how spineless everyone else is.

@MA2520

10 ай бұрын

@@aaronsmyth7943 well said

@alidabotes6264

10 ай бұрын

It's bc they are morally corrupt & stupid. You don't win an argument by shoving there agenda down our throats. Both sides have a point but I will change my opinion the minute they become nasty & atrack me. That shows they are brainwashed & just regurgitate the association's stand point which is at times ridiculous.

@xxhaver9050

10 ай бұрын

Germaine Greer was way off on some things but accurate on this issue: GG: "Having it off doesn't make you a woman." Interviewer: "You're offending people." GG: "I don't care! I get offended every day!"

Omg what did that guy say 40 minutes in, respect to Kathleen that she understood and answered.

How those students think they can win an argument against a philosophy professor. 💀

After watching this video and listening to her articulating so well, I now think the University of Sussex which failed her, and other academics who did not support her enough, should be ashamed.

@megazw7740

10 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, Brighton isn't very tolerant.

@sorrystilltrying5062

10 ай бұрын

Yes, after watching the video. So, maybe you are rather part of the problem?

@keren9322

10 ай бұрын

@@sorrystilltrying5062 I simply did not know about her until recently, unfortunately.

@DavidGraeberWasRight

10 ай бұрын

@@keren9322 I suggest you keep looking. You'll see how these people are backed and funded by the worst, and I mean THE WORST people on earth. Tthe Heritage foundation and others

@EarlHayward

10 ай бұрын

I agree… Nearly thirty years ago I took a history class in college that was dual listed as a women’s studies class, and the profesor graduated, and previously taught at, University of California Berkeley around 1970-80; probably the most liberal college in the U.S. at that time… However, my fears she would try to push an agenda were unfounded… While she was a lesbian, and a feminist, she was pragmatic and did want critical analysis of the women we studied, some of which were Muslim from Middle East countries… Point is, Kathleen reminds me of that professor; yes she holds some liberal views, but is pragmatic and objective and not trying to force some narrative or ideology on people!

We're so fucked. If someone as educated as little Lord Fauntleroy interviewing her holds these opinions there is no hope.

33:18 speaks volumes! Thanks Kathleen for being a voice of reason.

The fact that Matthew, this brilliant student from Oxford, could not decide what gender is is kind of unsettling.

@alekdaniels

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber It's not as simple but he can at least give a definition as to what he thinks it is. She gave him a criteria when she asked the question saying that she categorized 4 definitions of gender in her book before asking which one he means when he talks about gender. I am a gay guy myself so I am aware that gender is not binary.

@alekdaniels

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber I agree. I am skeptical about people who are too certain of their views and that's why I am here, trying to watch a debate and not a commentary on one side or the other. It is perfectly fine to not have a definitive answer in mind all the time. But he is participating in a discussion that involves gender at the core of it. He must at least state his current definition of what he believes gender to be when asked the question. It is irresponsible to debate someone without even having a working definition in mind about what is it exactly they are debating about. If we were to debate about the existence of god, we would have to agree first and define which god we are talking about. Because I might be disproving the existence of Allah and the interlocutor might be proving the existence of Yahweh. A working definition has to be established.

@alekdaniels

10 ай бұрын

​@Breakthechochamber Working definitions whether about god or gender has to be established to pin down the debate on solid ground. This is my main issue and I have yet to make up my mind about the biological and sociological factors that might play into what makes a person a man or a woman. Should they be categorized into the gender they're claiming to be or are they a separate category altogether? I have not made up my mind on this. My only worry is that people are now terrified to give definitions of what they think something is especially related to gender. What is gender? What is a woman? etc. Why are people stopped dead in their tracks and stutter when asked these questions? We can be certain they have something in their brain to answer these questions to provide their working definition but why are they terrified?

@alekdaniels

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber "we can debate whether the universe was designed by an intelligent entity or not and the evidence for this." No. Debates can be about a specific theistic god or a deistic god. Both debated are valid and both debates need a working definition to ground them. Debate about a theistic god require a working definition of which god is being debated about: Yahweh, Allah, Shiva, etc. Debate about a deistic god require a working definition of what the nature of that god is: it that god a spirit, a force of nature, a conscious being, etc. This is very basic.

@alekdaniels

10 ай бұрын

​@Breakthechochamber "I think a lot of people are terrified of being mocked, laughed at and abused by people on the other side of the debate. And it´s a reasonably justified fear as it does happen a lot. A lot of people also haven´t given a lot of thought to these questions, or have lived a rather unexamined life." Yes. But this is worrying to anyone who is concerned about freedom of speech and freedom of thought. For one's speech to be curtailed because of external pressure--in a renowned university, no less--is something that should not be accepted as the norm. People are terrified to offend other people's sensitivities which is just utterly wrong. We should be able to speak our minds freely without the fear of public condemnation even if other people deem it as offensive. As someone who hates religion for its role in strangling freedom of thought, I am worried that a similar behavior is now exhibited by people from my side of the political spectrum.

No idea why the host thinks single-sex spaces are only about reducing assault risk. It's also due to privacy. Women, and I imagine men too, like privacy in certain situations. Wild that this guy thinks women should lose theirs because some men (very few) are demanding this.

@ladyj5331

10 ай бұрын

Spot on 👏

@thehound9638

10 ай бұрын

I agree with you, but everything from the boys scouts to the working men's clubs have been taken away from the male. Now it's happening to the female, and she doesn't like it does she? I'm on your side but I wonder if women in general understand that sometimes males like their own space too? It's different with what's happening to women today because they're at potential risk at the hands of potential predators, but my point remains. There should be male and female places for those who might want them, and that should work both ways!

@LightSpell28

10 ай бұрын

@@thehound9638 yeah i agree, lots of the women in this debate agree that male-only spaces are useful and not always Bad And Patriarchal (the examples brought up for the ones that can be bad are things like when a workplace has some informal structure of men who all promote each other for example, because it increases nepotism). Helen Joyce of Sex Matters reposted a really sweet Guardian article about a men's support group, I dont remember the title of it though. (Sex Matters also talk about how single sex spaces matter for men too, their report on single sex spaces includes men feeling awkward in unisex toilets, as well as religious men having reasons for sex segregated spaces). Also MrMenno on youtube talks a lot about how this affects gay male saunas, discussion groups, dating apps etc.

@thehound9638

10 ай бұрын

@@LightSpell28 I nearly wet myself laughing at the YMCA parody, thanks for that!

@LightSpell28

10 ай бұрын

@@thehound9638 isnt he great? X) his talking livestreams are fun too

The opening statement is literally all that needed to be discussed. 😅 completely crazy. We cannot pass laws based on what someone feels they are

Oh my gosh… I’m only 10 minutes in and feel both sorry for her, for having to face this level of madness & extremely proud of her for not wanting to walk out! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️💗💗🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ x x

It was a bit exhausting to listen to the moderator use rapid-fire, complex sentences and unsupported assumptions to overwhelm his guest with a flurry of words that, on reflection, did nothing to advance his points. To her enormous credit, Professor Stock remained calm and focused, cutting through his posh puffery with clear logic and factual data. Oxford seems to attract and indulge students with enormous egos and little self-reflection or humility. At times, the results can be insufferable.

@kirs1064

10 ай бұрын

Very well said 👏 my thoughts exactly... and in parts, it felt very pompous, designed to try and bamboozle. Fortunately, it didn't phase Kathleen Stock.

@thunkjunk

10 ай бұрын

Ssss, ss, s, s, s, s, so w, w, w, w, w, wha, what is your p point?

@ip5799

10 ай бұрын

couldn’t agree more

@JanIbrahim

9 ай бұрын

Christ, what a well-put post! Agree completely!

@T-aka-T

9 ай бұрын

To be fair, they are just uni students starting to grow up, and she is/was a uni prof who used to teach the overconfident little blighters, in a discipline premised on clear thinking and analysis. So there's that ... 😊

Well done Kathleen. Gentle, articulate and incredibly brave. We love you! 💚💙💜💚💙💜

@sonquatsch8585

10 ай бұрын

we love and adore you kathleen ! an intellectuals intellectual and a great philosophical mind overflowing with true love. wow.

Regarding the obtuse question by the female student of whether Stock's tweet calling people 'babies' undermineded her views and position, no more so than the literal thousands upon thousands of graphic rape, violent assault and death threats towards her and her family from the trans community she's recieved undermines theirs. The blind spots and double standards are juvenile and sickening.

@freedahlogic8368

7 ай бұрын

Thousands? Really? You’re sure of that?

@skylinerunner1695

7 ай бұрын

@@freedahlogic8368 Yes. many so severe they had to be investigated by law enforcement. What amount would be justifiable to you, 10 threats? 50? 100?

@ldt8904

7 ай бұрын

@@freedahlogic8368what is the point of you questioning whether it was hundreds, thousands, or even tens of threats? Can you spell it out?

What an absolute privilege it would be to have the opportunity to be taught by someone of the calibre of Kathleen Stock. The University of Sussex should be kicking themselves for not supporting her and subsequently losing her.

Stock on the protest: "I don't mind it. I wasn't traumatized by it. People in my generation would do things like that..." She is amazing. Finally, someone who ISN'T traumatized by people having alternative views!

@ScottytheBlueBunny

10 ай бұрын

do things like that? she owes her platform to the ppl who "did things like that". she would be out there in the 50s when someone was arguing that women shouldn't vote bcz of inferiority of biology and temperament. go away and stay away.

@moraymac2922

10 ай бұрын

@@ScottytheBlueBunny Just stay out of the ladies toilets and changing areas son.

@ScottytheBlueBunny

10 ай бұрын

@@moraymac2922 Hilarious

@sparagmos4748

10 ай бұрын

​@@ScottytheBlueBunnyShe 'owes the platform' to East Sussex University who preferred virtue signalling over presenting and respecting differing views

@ScottytheBlueBunny

10 ай бұрын

@Sparagmos she's the biggest yawn who will only bring harm to CIS women by ignoring the shared interests with Transwomen. She has 0 evidence for her biased philosophy. She's trying to capitalise off selling some kind of genetic predisposition for immunity to the harm she promotes. Men do not dress up like women to adress them. they do it well enough as is.

Great lecture. Well done to Oxford Union for standing up to mob pressure & reasserting the principle of free speech at Oxford. As everyone has now seen the position of Kathleen Stock really is perfectly reasonable & the hysterical & often threatening reaction to it casts the TQ+ activists in a very poor light.

Wow, I have a new hero in Prof Stock. Cogent and unintimidated; we need more voices like hers.

@cancelled_user

9 ай бұрын

You know times are bad when we need to agree with a radical feminist 😐

Very well reasoned arguments, it’s appalling how she’s been treated

Thank you Kathleen for standing up for what you (we) believe in, particularly on our behalf.

@judithbrennan1859

10 ай бұрын

The role of a philosopher is not to stand up for the beliefs of others.

It's irritating how the burden is placed on women to disprove the unprovable. They are asking to change what already belonged to us. The onus is on them to prove to US why we should allow them into our things.

@beaterbikechannel2538

10 ай бұрын

As a man I just say to any men captured by the cult tell me, if transwomen are women then why can one not bear a child and, would you have s3x with one?

@cassandras7399

10 ай бұрын

It is provable they are men.

@amaryllisequistra

10 ай бұрын

Well said!

@ncorp2668

10 ай бұрын

@@cassandras7399 I meant they want us to disprove why a made up category should not be allowed to destroy what is ours. We're being forced to comply with their premise, even though that's never been proven or shown to us how/why we should agree. Rather, we've been given no choice, and somehow that's not obviously blatant injustice and authoritarian and a violation of human rights?

@ncorp2668

10 ай бұрын

@@amaryllisequistra TY!

Kathleen is Such a patient articulate women who puts forward common sense issues and solutions

thank you Kathleen. This is so important, you're so brave. It is such a relief to hear you.

'If you get so lost in the fiction that you cannot talk about the reality anymore, then we've got a problem'. Coudldn't have said it any better

@skylinerunner1695

8 ай бұрын

So true. Just like the interviewer finally getting lost and tangled up in his own arguments at the end.

Brilliant Professor! How amazing her patience for being repeatedly asked the same question. It's a shame that such sane voices are forced out of academia for addressing genuine concerns about children & adolescents.

@ScottytheBlueBunny

10 ай бұрын

did you see the part where she downplayed suicide? completely respectable.

@moraymac2922

10 ай бұрын

@@ScottytheBlueBunny There is nothing hateful about defending the sex based rights of women and girls. Nothing hateful at all. These sex based rights are essential to preserve the dignity privacy and safety of women and girls. They do not exist to solve male problems.

The moderator is a person that would do perfectly in politics. Talking for ever with no real substance. Congrats Oxford.

From a US Citizen: Thank you Kathleen Stock for all that you’re doing to speak for those who are unable or unwilling to! I can see how challenging navigating these environments are in every YT Channel I watch you speak on & you’re doing it very well so thank you, thank you, thank you 🎉

As someone from 3rd world country struggling with recession and inflation, I am appalled by how this woman was stipulated to spend such a long time explaining very simple matter.

@Verbomotoriste

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber "Relevant experts" AKA the opinions i agree with. He is right, the identitarian left is slowing the group, we should be focusing on defunding war machines, the environement but here we are debating what is a woman and a man with a bunch of ivory-towered privileged bourgeois.

@rosemaryalles6043

10 ай бұрын

Precisely, you nailed it. Therein lies the insanity of this issue.

@rosemaryalles6043

10 ай бұрын

@@Verbomotoriste agree.

@jogilchrist-sp7pf

10 ай бұрын

She wouldn't have to if men didn't exist who insist they are women when clearly they are not creating safeguarding issues & impacting our rights. It's a male driven issue not a female driven issue. These men were given an inch & have taken a mile. Sadly some women also support this nonsense leading women like Stock to defend the obvious that yes should be simple & have long been accepted

@PeakTrans

10 ай бұрын

@Breakthechochamber No, that's not what the appeal to martyrdom fallacy means and it's not begging the question. Look them up.

Professor stock, thank you for voicing the opinions held by the majority of the world, these obsolete and entitled individuals are the epitome of ignorance, you’re a brave and clearly well read WOMAN.

How she had the patience to answer these ridiculous questions I'll never know.

@billtruttschel

3 ай бұрын

Indeed. That interviewer is a regard.

@Ciara-ASMR

3 ай бұрын

I agree, the patience of a saint. However, I appreciate seeing someone of her standing walk through these silly questions, because these are the exact kind of silly questions that come up out in the wild. So I'm very happy to get some pointers as to how to debate these rather disingenuous questions.

I really appreciate this women’s loyalty to the facts and her bravery. It’s sad that with every other “panel discussion” that Oxford holds, they gently question their guests in a friendly and open-minded manner. From start to finish, this guy ONLY challenged her from a point of clear bias and didn’t actually consider her perspective with merit. This kid is too privileged to understand anything that’s not spoon fed to him.

@highlandlass74

7 ай бұрын

I was astonished at his absolute certainty that he was right, that he couldn't see he was coming from a place of bias. And how calmly and professionally Kathleen Stock answered his questions, managed to cut through his wordy silliness and calmly but firmly steer the conversation in a more balanced direction.

@henrylee4856

7 ай бұрын

He was a odious creature really.

@josephtessari8769

7 ай бұрын

Precisely.

@antmagor

7 ай бұрын

So if she’s “loyal to the facts” then how does her philosophy account for women like Mamie Johnson in 1953? While Miss Johnson was not trans she broke the very “rules” that this professor and others are upholding by being the only woman on her baseball team. And I don’t think a single thing she supports is open minded or brave because there’s nothing brave about clinging to some ridiculous archaic notion instead of just admitting that you’re afraid of change. Because that’s all any of this has ever been, a hysteria over change.

@Allyballybean

7 ай бұрын

I thought he was playing the role of ‘challenging’ her position, which seems an appropriate thing for an interviewer to do. It’s also legitimate not the agree in a debate - that’s the point of having one. Imho.

What a fantastic intelligent and eloquent woman. I'm grateful to you, Kathleen, for speaking out for us.

@natts

10 ай бұрын

Apart from the bullshit she spouted. Talking about the types convictions that transwomen are put in prison for doesn't prove anything about transwomen in general, because the vast majority of them are not in prison at all. It's also not clear if they were transwomen when they committed the crimes, and who they committed them against. A fairer statistic would be the proportion of cisgendered men who have been prosecuted for sexual attacks, versus trans women for the same thing. I can guarantee the rate will be far higher for cisgendered men.

@VaughanMcCue

10 ай бұрын

@@natts You have conflated too many variables. What page of her book has upset you?

@natts

10 ай бұрын

@Paul Hitchens eh?

@f.h.7671

10 ай бұрын

@@nattsyou are not even able to state your disagreement in a respectful way. that’s sad.

@natts

10 ай бұрын

@@f.h.7671 I can't respect liars who misrepresent the truth. Sorry!