I feel like Nightcrawler, starring Jake Gyllenhaal, does a better job at being a modern day Taxi Driver. It's darker, it's creative, and it evokes the same feel as Taxi Driver while still being its own thing.

@Trxpamvs

3 жыл бұрын

Nightcrawler will be talked about as a classic in a couple of years.

@starlord6433

3 жыл бұрын

Remember that Joker is set in the 80s not in the 2010s like Nightcrawler is

@starlord6433

3 жыл бұрын

Allison Gerdes Drive with Ryan Gosling is better than nightcrawler

@Trxpamvs

3 жыл бұрын

Star LORD Joker being set in the 80s has nothing to do with what I said. Cool that u think driver is a better movie. Everybody has different opinions I guess.

@SmartypantsTutoring

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and as much as I love Phoenix, I thought Gyllenhaal was miles better.

I think the film lacks the ambiguity of Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. It tries too often to make us empathize with Arthur’s choices by making nearly everyone terrible to him.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. You feel bad for him because like... you have to?!?!?

@DieHardAlien

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf I think Joaquin Phoenix helps to make Arthur's behavior more ambiguous in terms of how we should feel about him probably more so than how the character probably was in the script. I absolutely agree in how the film lacks the ambiguity of Phillips' influences when it gets to the reveals and just re-establishes stuff that we already knew about the character and affirming it wholesale (making it less stronger that it's predecessors). The protagonists in the two flicks seemed like they could be more normal in a good way but their own personal vices or the society they live in push them to become an even worse version of themselves (or better in their eyes plus the regular schmoes if we take everything into account when the plot finally goes into motion as reality even when it's not). Overall, I thought the flick was fine. I appreciated the type of film it was trying to emulate and visually it worked in making me feel transported to that type of realistic world seen in 70s to early 80s flicks set in NYC. Plus, it has a minimal but hummable score and a few memorable sequences throughout (Arthur's work buddies visiting his apartment).

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent and solid B movie???? I liked it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. Because society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

@VicenteTorresAliasVits

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree. Arthur does a lot of bad things on screen and it's not always self-defense or revenge. Travis Bickle wasn't portrayed as a victim, but that doesn't mean one can't empathize with him. We see everything from his point of view and how damaged he is.

@DieHardAlien

3 жыл бұрын

@@VicenteTorresAliasVits I feel like that was based more so on Joaquin Phoenix's performance than the actual character. The scene in the bathroom is a good example because, in the script, he was doing the typical "What have I done?" that's not interesting. Joaquin Phoenix transformed it when he listened to the score and Phillips changed the scene to what we have in the final film (which was for the better). He made it more ethereal but creepily mad.

For a movie about a psychopathic clown, I found Joker to be surprisingly... tame. With the way people talked about how "dark" and "disturbing" this movie was in early reviews, I was expecting a cross between Scarface and Natural Born Killers. Then when I saw it, I was like "eh". I don't know if that's because the studio made Todd Phillips pull back on the dark tone or if it was deliberate so that the movie could still be accessible to mainstream audiences.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

100%. The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver are scarier movies because they’re just unapologetically honest

@justinriley

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf That's why I think Nightcrawler is a better version of Joker. It has more depth and goes all in with how dark and twisted it is.

@tenlegdragon

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf It could be argued that Todd Phillips and Scott Silver weren't trying to scare you. That's not what they do. Todd Phillips is the guy responsible for Mr Chow jumping out a car ass naked. Scott Silver is the guy who wrote Dicky Ecklund to life and earned Bale an Oscar. Maybe, just maybe, you weren't supposed to be scared at all. It's a comedy. A really funny joke if you get it. I really feel like you didn't watch this movie the right way. Too much projection of what you thought it was going to be and not enough attention paid to what it actually is. This movie was about being unapologetically honest with yourself. It's not about the dark grittiness of Gotham, it's about Arthur and finding your own patch of sunlight wherever you can, dancing to your own music. If you were scared at any point during this movie I really honestly truly believe you weren't watching it right. Not that there's a right way and a wrong way, but dude... You obviously didn't enjoy it the way you did it.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

It is tame, it is unbelievably apologetic and bland about how it goes with its subject matter, it's like they forgot they were making a movie about a disturbed maniac at every turn, the amount of manipulative bullshit they throw at you to make you feel bad about this guy is mibdboggling, if your societal commentary about the evils of society involves the main character being beaten to a pulp for absolutely no reason twice in the first half hour then maybe your "society" has got very little of substance to say except "feeeel baaaaaad", only then to have the main character do and think the dumbest things and not even having the good taste of acknowledging how dumb they are but instead acting like your hyper realistic "society" is just filled with assholes so we can keep acting like the blame is on everybody else, all in the purpose of feeling baaad so that once he commits something gruesome we can believe the grand bullshot fight the power skit

@victoriaandrews4547

3 жыл бұрын

There were darker scenes but I believe he was told to cut them out

I feel like if Todd Philips wanted to make the commentary that society hasn’t much progressed since the 70s when King of Comedy and Taxi Driver were created then he would have set Joker in a more modern time period. Then the parallels would actually have meaning to them besides just wanting to emulate the aesthetics of those films he is referencing. As you said, there is no narrative meaning to anything he is emulating.

@maldon3659

3 жыл бұрын

If he wanted to do that then he should've set the film during the 70s

@DoctorWhoKage

3 жыл бұрын

Ummm...Gotham has always had that sort of aesthetic. It's a way of getting away with setting the Batman franchise no particular year or day. If you notice other interpretations of Gotham City, you'll know that Gotham is a city with Police blimps, modern-looking architecture, cellphones and cars that look as though they were made in either the 40s, or 50s, or 60s, or 70s, or 80s. So, I don't think we can just go and write off a movie for an aesthetic that's accurate to the comics and other source materials like the 2004 Batman cartoon.

Yup, the thing I'm impressed by this movie was the PR team. The marketing people all deserve a raise because every possible bad press was turned into gold.

@pinsboy

2 жыл бұрын

Yup what I still find impressive is how it’s image is still flawnted around like it’s a cult classic but haveing watched it a number of times ( to see if I missed something) I still find it meh, even a bit cringey and boring. I can’t really quote a single line cos nothing really stuck out in that movie. But seeing taxi driver for the first time you can’t help it, that movie is stuck in your head, the whole feeling is stuck in your head. it’s a god dam masterpiece. some people want to be joker, but we have all been Bickle.

I love Joker, and I think that it is one of the best movies of last year imo...but after I watch Taxi Driver 2 months ago, I starting to realize why Joker felt flat and feel like it’s imitating these 70’s Martin Scorsesse movies.

I like this movie but I’m pretty sure the whole thing is just Todd Phillips grabbing some actors and doing his own fan fiction. I don’t mean that derisively I just think he had an idea and didn’t really have any motivation beyond “wouldn’t that be neat?”

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I agree.

@WoodstockProd

3 жыл бұрын

iamthatroby like I remember when the movie was announced Todd just said he wanted to make a movie that riffed on King of Comedy and Taxi Driver but with the Joker, and your enjoyment of the film is largely dependent on if you really mind that

@cloudspigtails8076

3 жыл бұрын

The proper term is "elseworlds tale". Anyone familiar with comics is used to this sort of thing, we dont call it "fan fiction"

@wet-read

2 ай бұрын

That could be. If so, he's like a less talented Tarantino. I actually like Phillips' Hangover films (well, the first and third; the third should have been the second and final one IMO).

Idk how a movie can copy something so obviously and not get accused of plagiarism

We’re getting what we deserve from Roby.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

sOcIeTy

i really wish i had seen king of comedy, network, or taxi driver in the cinemas instead of joker

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

With cinemas slowly reopening in Australia, I believe some of them are showing Taxi Driver, and other Scorsese greats. Not sure about Network, though :(

@milfsfilms

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf oh man i wish my country of philippines would do sumn like that but not this pandemic ofc lol but still i doubt it

@TheDinohunter2000

3 жыл бұрын

@@milfsfilms the Philippines huh, I doubt we'd ever get so lucky hahaha. Never seen SM show classics.

@milfsfilms

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDinohunter2000 ya that's why I'm not holding on to it lol

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

I watched all those movies before Joker and that's the reason I like Joker.

To me, Joker really isn't about.. anything, other than Todd Phillips trying to make a Joker origin story by putting this character through all sorts of shit, which kind of makes it a not-so-strong character study, to me. (that's putting aside the fact that Phillips himself literally said that it's less of a commentary and more of a story of a guy who becomes the joker) MY POINT IS: When poeple talk about how they agree or disagree with the commentary or how weak or strong it is, they're giving it too much thought because there ISN'T a deeper commentary. The political landscape of the movie was just a tool to turn Arthur into Joker and make it look "serious". Everything is too black and white for it too be a thought provoking character study. and once you accept it, it's kinda easy not to take it too seriously. (Although one could say, it's a poor attempt to make it look "prestigious") Like Roby said, it's...fine.

@KerioFive

3 жыл бұрын

An attempt to be pretentious perhaps?

@alrob2224

3 жыл бұрын

Are you Aleheez on Letterboxd?

@yimpyoi9808

3 жыл бұрын

chad dafoe it’s pretentious oscar bait, simple as that

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

@@alrob2224 No.

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent B movie???? I liked it and didn’t mind it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker the whole time and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and said he was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. But society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. Why do you have to bring up social class always when trying to bring a message about society as a whole?? Parasite already did that in a much better way imho. And if Joker is relatable, I think it ruins the message it’s trying to say about Society. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. The true irony is Society praises a film that criticizes Society. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

The Metal Gear Solid games use homages and references very well in the stories leaving an impact on the characters for instance Hideo Kojima compares Solid Snake to Godzilla with them being an experiment messed with and Raiden to King Kong being taken from their homes, dealing with a seductive woman, fighting on skyscraper/building for the final part

It could have commented on the "American Dream" myth, systemic problems, or social hierarchy, but it didn't. It didn't say much of anything and that's what disappointed me. It had a huge platform with not much to say.

Joker didn't "reference" Taxi driver and The King of comedy every 5 minutes" although the influences are certainly plain to see. I'm not sayin gthis as a joker fanboy or hater but this criticism that Joker rips off Taxi driver annoys me. Yes the films have similar plots and everything, but Todd Phillips is aware of that and clearly respected Martin's work. It's hard to find an original film these days. I forget who said it but it's a pretty famous quote among writers; "There's no such thing as an original story". The only difference with Joker (at least to people complaining like the video creator) is that it references and is aware of it's inspirations more unreservedly. That might have been confusing but I'm basically saying 99% of films or stories or art in general aren't "unique" and their creators always have inspirations and influences from work they've seen in the past, Todd Phillips is just more open about his inspiration in this film. Let's not pretend Todd Phillips is the only filmmaker to ever have been inspired by another director's work, just because he referenced it in his film. Joker is it's own movie and has it's own messages and interpretations, different from those in Taxi Driver.

@mrmovieguy1000

3 жыл бұрын

Also, films with references to other films are obviously common, just because Joker had references as well as similarities in plot doesn't make it worse. It's not like Joker is going to reference a film that didn't inspire it/has nothing to do with it like, idk, the hangover for example.

@kdscool1536

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Very well said. People who constantly compain about Joker ripping off Scorsese's movies are massive idiots and hypocrites who selectively complain about one movie while giving a pass to all other movies doing the same thing, especially Tarantino who copies a lot more than Joker did. Just really annoying dumb assholes.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@kdscool1536 ohhh look another ignorant take, you must have a slew of them😘

@kdscool1536

3 жыл бұрын

​@@marcogianesello6083 no, just logical take and facts. You don't understand the difference anyway.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@kdscool1536 suuuure

i'm feeling so exclusive now

@NerdZoneDE

3 жыл бұрын

watched the video! great angle to analyse why Joker didn't work for you. i never saw it that way, so thank you!

I think the point of Joker and Taxi Driver are complete opposites. Taxi Driver is about a man forcing himself to look at the worst parts of society to push himself to the edge whereas Joker is literally about society pushing a man to the edge.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

Fact is, taxi driver showed a real part of society without sugarcoating it beyond belief,it just did so through the lens of travis' point of view, and did that through masterclass directing and cinematography, we experience a world that feels real only we experience it trough a specific viewpoint punctuated and defined by the narration, but it never makes excuses for travis' vigilantism outside of what we actually see through his eyes, travis may take a selective perspective but for how much we empathize with him he is never put beyond blame, the world he lives in pushed him to the edge because his mind creates the aspect of the world he lives in, in joker everyone's either an asshole just because or is a person who has a point portrayed as an asshole for no other reason than "we need the audience to not be conflicted about any sort of moral ambiguity to the protagonist's actions", the difference is taxi driver gives an unapologetic look in the mind of a man product of his time and place, joker makes shit up and tries to trick the audience to have its cake and eat it too

@myleswoods8371

3 жыл бұрын

Marco Gianesello yeah, i feel like Todd Phillips misinterprets Taxi Driver to be an objective view on society

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@myleswoods8371 i thik he misunderstands why the selective perception works in taxi driver, and why that does work in a sociopolitical context, taxi driver=travis out of his own issues travels in the most miserable parts of the city for the job and passively assists to all kinds of fucked up, scorsese shows the world outside the windshield, it's dark, grimy and decaying, also the narration clarifies that travis already sees things through a lens pf prejudice and racism other than PTSD so it conveys the idea of bias confirmation, travis is lost and purposeless and broken, so his moral compass bends because of what he's exposed to, he's essentially an uneducated kid who only learned how to be a good soldier in a world of structure and rules and now devoid of both he projects his troubles on the outside, all of this is done through visual language, we see this tension in the scenes when travis sees crime and filth, it's like the city turns into a horror movie, people are moving in the shadows and fog and neither we nor travis see them clearly, they become indistinct shapes on which travis casts his own paranoia, so we see how he feels, we aren't told hpw he feels, and no excuses are made for why he is like this Joker : arthur gets the shit beaten out of him twice for literally no reason whatsover because society bad, and in place of spellbinding surreal sequences to show how the world outside our protagonists viewpoint is decaying there is my favourite cliche: newspaper titles no self respecting editor would ever print, like a title that saya :"kill the rich" "we are all clowns" like really? That's your idea of showcasing the world of a madman, ridicolous newspaper titles explaining the birth of a revolutionary movement born literally because a clown guy who could have been a heroin addict shot three rich kids, like that's literally your depiction of popular upheaval, you shot three 23 year olds and since they're rich bam, a robber couldn't have done that in a desert subway in the middle of the night,, must be a political rally, gimme a break

@myleswoods8371

3 жыл бұрын

Marco Gianesello yeah joker is pretty shit in my opinion. Arthur isn’t nearly as deep of a character as Travis is. In Joker the view of his world seems to be the same for everything. in Taxi Driver there are those few bright and beautiful shots of new york before the “They. Cannot. Touch. Her.” line that really emphasise Travis’s paranoia and fearfulness of the world compared to anyone else’s like Betsy. Joker just simply doesn’t understand any of this and is just a shallow boring mess that says essentially nothing.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@myleswoods8371 like, had they ditched the whole social commentary thing and focused on the king of comedy angle i'd be like "fine", but it tries soooooo hard to cram in that shit in the most hamfisted way imaginable, like people don't even see how the movie about JOKER has literally nothing to do with comedy, he could have been a milkman rather than a comedian, the whole mythos behind joker is wasted for the purpose of a hamfisted message on how "anyone could become the joker....if you're off meds... and have a history of psychosis...and you get fired...and people beat the shit out of you literally for fun...and you are led to believe you are a millionare's son for no reason...and your childhood hero makes fun of you..." come on, was it much to ask that the movie about the Joker was...i don't know...comedic? That it didn't play out like a gamer's wet dream?

I think Todd tried to hard to make the Joker too sympathetic. In the movie we’re given one reason after the other that Arthur was pushed into being what he becomes at the end and it’s everyone else’s fault, not his. (My particular irritation is how the destroyed Thomas Wayne’s character as he is seen in the comics, a good man trying to make the city better, into just another rich prick. At the end it’s not a movie about the Joker but an upper class vs lower class movie that doesnt actually say anything valuable other than just repeat the already bitter resentment that exists between both sides Arthur Fleck isn’t complicated. In the comics he was just a man with already ingrained psychopathic tendencies who got the push he needed to fall off the deep end. This is made more apparent in how in the killing joke he tries to show what happened to him could have happened to anyone (especially the best of them, Comissioner Gordon) but he fails because Gordon doesnt take the bait despite the awful experience he’s put through. He doesn’t need to be sympathetic. He just needs to be interesting.

Comments still in single digits? So minimalist.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

That’ll change... hopefully

it's cool seeing the king of comedy getting some love as a result of all of this, one of my favourite films ever. now let's see joker 2 rip off after hours.

BLONDE ROBY BLONDE ROBY

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

can I replace Ellen?

@brodiewilkinson4614

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf You can DJ for Eric Andre as Ellen

I like to think that Joker is a continuation of The King of Comedy where Rupert takes Jerry's place and gets cursed with a lunatic crazier than him trying to take Jerry's show which fulfill Jerry's statement

What I genuinely think happened is that he was watching King of Comedy and had joker on his mind and was thinking imagine if that was his origin story and that's where it went from. I think he would have literally re made the movie shot for shot, just Rupert Pukin as De Niro if he was allowed too. It's quite noticeable when he is not using the blueprints of those movies where it falls down, as the only reason he is doing something different is just so this isn't just, a remake of the King Of Comedy or Taxi Driver

My thoughts as well. 'Joker' simply took plot points of 'The King of Comedy' and 'Taxi Driver' and have Robert de Niro in its cast so it would look as if it's self-aware; as if it's an homage. It's the only point I took from it and I had the thought of making a video of it, but I guess I don't need to anymore.

@thankyoujodi

Жыл бұрын

Do it man, I'll watch. I hate this movie so much.

Liked the video but be ready to recieve dislikes from other people. In my opinion, The Killing Joke is the perfect origin story for joker. I liked the movie killing joke too.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I’m always expecting the worst, but I really hope people just listen to what I have to say, as I’m not really against the movie haha

@brucew565

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf I don't know if you caught my hint but I would LOVE to hear your opinion on The Killing Joke (the movie) and specifically talk about the much controversial and derided Bruce/Barbara romance. In my personal opinion, the controversy is based on a stupid non-issue. I don't think there's anything wrong with two consensual adults doing it. And contrary to what people say, Bruce doesn't see Barbara as his daughter and neither does Barbara. This is true for comics too. Yes there's an age difference between the two but there are so many real life couples with a huge difference and that's not considered immoral either.

@DoctorWhoKage

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucew565 but why call it the "Bat-Family", then?

@brucew565

3 жыл бұрын

@@DoctorWhoKage Just because it's called family doesn't mean it's literally family. Friends are also family but they can make out

@DoctorWhoKage

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf okay, I understand your criticisms, but I think the reason why the movie was made that way was because it's an analysis of how villains are made. Nobody's born evil, it just takes way more bad days than one for someone to become truly evil.

When I watched Joker all I could think of was “king of comedy”

Your argument about art imitating other art, but without reflecting on it to delineate itself from it, can be as easily applied to most of the MCU flicks, which in on themselves stand on the shoulders of much better films and filmmakers. Their love for putting "I know what that is!" moments into their movies is only rivaled by their love for lifeless computer-generated imagery. Likewise, Spider-Man Homecoming was said to be inspired by John Hughes movies. It includes both external (moments that are self-aware about what they're referencing) and internal (moments that are played straight) references to Hughes films. As far as I recall, you loved that film and thought it was very refreshing. So why exactly Joker is different in that regard? (Well, of course, outside the fact that Joker is a better acted, written, and directed film all around.) Or what about Guardians of the Galaxy? 99% of the so-called charm those movies have is tied to references to the bygone era in pop culture and its films and music. James Gunn doesn't reference old music and old movies because he's being multifarious about the intent. He's just doing his regular masturbatory routine where gushes over the favorite things from his youth. I hate to break it for you, but most films that directly are inspired by other films usually don't try to have double meaning when homaging the work they're inspired by. Such as when Christopher Nolan referenced the black-and-white Russian film Alexander Nevsky in Batman Begins during the sword fight on the ice. He wasn't putting any double meaning in that fight scene. He wanted to put that in his film because he thought that would make for a good scene. Same thing with him referencing Heat for The Dark Knight.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

yeah but mcu movies know they're dumb, they don't pretend to have some sort of important messagge with a mediocre script, and inspiration becomes a problem if it's done poorly because it makes a movie that is mediocre on its own mediocre AND shamelessly derivative, also there is no comparison between homaging a film and straight up ripping it off, as this one does, which again i wouldn't mind so much IF it was done properly, which it's not, it honestly feels like philips doesn't know what made those concepts work in scorsese's films, because the way in which those influenced ideas fall short is tied directly with all the movies' flaws, this video might be specifically a criticism of the way it uses its influences,but all the problems exist in a vacuum too, the comparison only serves as a counter example to show how it's done right, the lighthouse is almost as inspired by other films as joker is, but the influences are in the service of a unique perspective and work wonderfully in the movie's unique context, also it's infinitely better but that's another issue, the problem is this movie is shallow, and taking ideas off masterpieces and using them in a shallow way is a further flaw, but rest assured no one's saying taxi driver did it first so this one sucks by default,no, taxi driver did it masterfully and this one did it poorly AND derivatevely

@worldreviews98

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcogianesello6083 So you are dismissing Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy series, Thor: Ragnarok and many other movies as dumb movies? That's very unfair to Ryan Coogler, Scott Derrickson, James Gunn, Taika Waititi, et cetera. Heavy.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@worldreviews98 i like some marvel flicks, winter soldier and the guardians for example very much so, i flat out love raimi's spiderman, but they are dumb movies, they are,there's no denying that, and i don't mean dumb as an insult necessarily just as a generic label, they're crowdpleasing entertainment flicks about caped superheroes saving the day, like obviously they're dumb movies, hell i love star wars but i wouldn't exactly call that deep or thought provoking, there's a difference between a smart movie and a smatly made movie, and i'm not disrespecting anyone, if those directors were to take offence to this is because they don't know what kind of project they were working on which i doubt as they weren't born yesterday, i love myself a dumb, fun flick if it just knows what it is and doesn't try to sell itself as something it's not, like joker does

@worldreviews98

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcogianesello6083 Well, I suggest to look past the crowdpleasing entertainment. In my humble opinion, I think the movies I just mentioned are genuinely geat movies. So is the Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy. Yes, they are about comic-book extravaganza, but one should look past that, and not superficially look at them as just what they seem to appear us to be. The cinematic mastercraft behind those movies is unbelievably high. I equally love those movies, as I love Joker. I think the main problem with Joker is the media coverage around it. That's one thing can ruin the experience of a movie. It happened the same thing to The Dark Knight Rises, back in 2012.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@worldreviews98 when did i suggest that a dumb movie can't be great? Didn't i say i love some of them? The pure quality execution has nothing to do with how intellectually self important a film is, raimi's spiderman flicks are great in every element, including corny writing, marvel movies tend to be lackluster in writing and to look like lifeless husks with no visual style save for a few notable exceptions but that's beside the point, a dumb movie can be a good movie, even a masterpiece in some rare cases, but that won't change what it is, and there's no point in trying to deny it, it's like people need to believe everything they like is some artistic achievement otherwise they'd feel self conscious about liking it, which is a pretty contrived way of thinking about stuff, my problem with joker is that it doesn't know what it is and goes for the unsatisfying middle ground every step of the way, not anything press related and all that jazz, i was excited to see it and came out thinking "jeez that was so dumb" and when watching endgame, a movie about time travelling to prevent a purple alien from using the glove of infinite power and destroying the universe, i didn't think that once because i was enjoying myself and for how dumb it was it knew it and had fun with the ridicolousness of its premise, which makes it consistent eoth itself, joker is NOT consistent in anything

“Look how bad [society] still is” Well... yeah that would make sense if the film wasn’t set in (or styled to look like) the 70’s...?

@arafat9828

3 жыл бұрын

One of the major things in the movie was how society has not changed since the 80s and you can see certain things like that but I guess you're too ignorant to notice. Excessive gun violence in America, how nobody (including govt) takes mental health seriously, how people make memes and/or roast a person with no idea what he/she is going through. We recently saw an example of that when people mocked late Chadwick Boseman for being too skinny when he was suffering from colon cancer.

@lookbovine

Жыл бұрын

@@arafat9828 Violent crime hit its peak in the early 90s... guess you’re too ignorant to know that. :P But you’re right that social media memes were BRUTAL in the 80s. Lol.

Hey man. I'm a new subbie as of recent. Binged a load of your videos and my favourite was the perfect ending for spiderman 1. I can never get enough of KZreadrs doing video essays of Sam Raimi spiderman 1 and 2 because they are my favorite. I was wondering if you could please do more vidoe essays on spiderman 1 and 2, even spiderman 3? Because I lvoe the detail you go in to. Hopefully you can 😎

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I’d love to talk about SM2 and 3, but I genuinely feel as if those movies have been talked about way too much!!! Maybe in a few months, though

@MaxxadTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf haha that is true. I just love your takes on these essays. I also think if the theme of spiderman 3 was revenge instead of forgiveness it could have made it work almost perfectly. Revenge being Harry. But obviously the introduction of venom screwed that movie up :( Keep going anyway bro this was a great video taxi driver is a great movie too

@viciousbane569

3 жыл бұрын

Spider-Man 2 is the best Spider-Man movie

@MaxxadTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@viciousbane569 yes it is

I think Joker also takes a lot from A clockwork orange, the theme of society and the psychopathic protagonist, with a couple of other things.

I've been saying this ever since I watched this movie, I don't understand how nobody has been talking about this.

I was disappointed to fork out a tenner for Joker and to now have the DVD sitting somewhere on my shelves. I'd heard it contained elements inspired by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, but I wasn't expecting wholesale theft. I doubt I'll ever watch it again, whereas I've watched the Scorsese films at least a dozen times each, and will keep watching them.

The movie makes me remember Batman 89. Tecnically astonishing, with amazing visuals, acting and music, but some script problems

Imma stop you right there Chief, the king of comedy is summed up by the closing line “better to be king for a night then schmuck for life” and taxi driver is closer to Rambo about the Vietnam veteran and forgotten man forced back into a society that used them as canon fodder.

Nice deep dive as always brother.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Cheers, Trey

Genuinely one of my favourite KZreadrs

Roby is going to become the Joker.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Green hair next

Yet another banger

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, sir

I don't think your 500 DAYS OF SUMMER comparison works. In that case, they're acknowledging that THE GRADUATE exists as a movie in that universe and the characters talk about it. It's a reference, yes, but a very direct one. Here, they're taking script and visual elements and recreate them with a new spin (or at least that's the intention) without anyone mentioning those movies.

Totally agree Roby. Ok is exactly what I feel about it.

Wow this is interesting

I can't agree with this video. Joker is an amazing movie, one that touched the VERY important and often ignored topic of mental health and lack of focus on it. In-between all of that, you have this unease within society with the way Gotham is portrayed, all the dirtiness and the constant unease in the streets. That moment when he kills the people at the subway is incredible and whatever criticism doesn't change the fact the ending is incredibly powerful and the movie can stand on its own. People calling it pretentious are literally just jealous it got so popular.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

it is the most pretentious film i've seen in a loong time, and i utterly despise the word pretentious, so i'm gonna call it just dumb and pretending to be ten times smarter than it actually is

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcogianesello6083 The most pretentious film I have seen in a long time is Parasite

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@norm-bb3bb what does pretentious mean?

@MrFrankcap

3 жыл бұрын

Marco Gianesello ??? The movie isn't pretentious at all. That's a word people are using to try and generalize the movie. If you think its pretentious, then that's on you.

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcogianesello6083 You don't know what pretentious mean and you said Joker is pretentious? Man I cannot take you seriously anymore

You are absolutely right!

Super interesting commentary👍

a commentary on scorceses take on super hero movie that he considered theme park experience instead of actual movies perhaps

Great points! I agree Joaquin is just great. Can't take anything away from that performance. The vulnerability and humility of the standup scenes stick out to me most. It's so awkward and I find myself feeling bad for him. Business wise, all these comicbook films are finding themselves by "plugging in" to different genres. This is a Scorsese-esque character study without the mastery of a Scorsese type. When Scorsese made controversy when he said Marvel films are not cinema, perhaps he should have said that some comic book films are imitating cinema; some well and some poorly. I like superhero movies. I liked this movie. And I like KZread. And finally, I like you, Roby. I feel like there should be another 'b' in your name somewhere.

This video encapsulated my thoughts on Joker almost perfectly.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help

@rollotomassi4768

Жыл бұрын

I've never seen the Joker. I just remember when seeing Trailers how much it reminded me of the King of Comedy. Guess I'm not the only one.

I think using the adjetive 'masterpiece' is always divisive because it is very difficult to find any form of art that everybody can love to such degree. For this movie my personal opinion is that maybe you can say that about Joaquin Phoenix performance but not about the movie which I agree is just fine. But some people are assigning the quality of the performance to the overall film.

For a fellow aussie, and I’m trying to start a Chanel close to this type of content! You have dine a great job. Stumbled onto your videos and I haven’t stopped watching. Love your latest zack Efron vid. Any tips for me

My opinion is that it is a masterpiece taxi driver and Joker🙂

What if he felt these films have an interesting take or approach to character development, and he wanted to show a new generation that would otherwise never seen those films. All of which with the cloak of a Joker Origin Film.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

He could do what Scorsese does regarding films he loves, i.e. re-release them

@lookbovine

Жыл бұрын

Money might be the incentive for feeling and wanting those things. If he just recommended people see those films he would make significantly less...probably nothing.

I've never seen Taxi Driver, Network or King of Comedy. I only saw this movie because it thought it'd be fun to watch, which it was to some degree. Also I loved the editing, set design and cinematography

I had a real hope that during the “twist” of joker that they were gonna really turn around and surprise me with the love interest (who’s name I don’t know because it’s a bad movie and who cares) and give her some kind of agency in the film - cos as a black single mother below the poverty line in the 80s, she probably knows a thing or two about how bad s o c i e t y is. But no, she’s never seen again after that fucking awful twist reveal.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I love how the movie thought the audience was fucking stupid and just showed the same scenes from earlier but with Zazie Beetz's character no longer present lmaooo

@callmeej8399

3 жыл бұрын

iamthatroby I agree that Joker isn’t “deep” but does the Fight Club montage doing the same thing make it stupid? I also agree that zazzies character was not convincing as a “twist” since she wasn’t acting like a real person. But I think the way Arthur fantasizes about her character is accurate to how many incels and lonely “losers” wish girls would talk to them like. It’s distorted and clearly fake but not inaccurate to the imagination of Arthur. That’s just my two cents, sorry I wrote this terribly.

I've been saying that this movie lacked originality but ofc most of people obviously watch this for fun or rather amusement. Having watched Taxi driver and King of Comedy one can feel this. And I obviously got ton of hate from my fellow schoolmates one I bring this discussion

@wserthmar8908

3 жыл бұрын

Hivemind

Finally somebody said it

One thing I couldn't stand about the reception of this film is the people giving it top marks just because they have anxieties and can "relate" to the Joker

@maulydieng6560

3 жыл бұрын

I think it’s the main reason why it was so well received. Most people now are fake depressed and have fake anxiety issues and hate society so off course Joker was the best movie of the decade for them

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

I no kidding saw people under a negative review of the movie by an awesome channel called deepfocuslens, which was opened by a girl, that she didn't like it because she can't empathize with the story as she's NOT MALE, really

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent B movie???? I liked it and didn’t mind it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker the whole time and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and said he was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. But society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. Why do you have to bring up social class always when trying to bring a message about society as a whole?? Parasite already did that in a much better way imho. And if Joker is relatable, I think it ruins the message it’s trying to say about Society. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. The true irony is Society praises a film that criticizes Society. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

@@maulydieng6560 How do you know they're fake?

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@norm-bb3bb it's a way of saying this movie is edgy for edgy's sake without having any really substantial things to explore outside a ridicolously simplistic "we live in a society skit", like many edgelords on the internet nowadays act likr they have it so hard and their lives suck because it's a romantic idea to be the loner outcast and they pretend like they are sick of society because someone asked them to tuck in their shirt or something, like it's a movie with shallow commentary hailed by people with a shallow self centered view of the problems of modern life

I also didn't find Joker that extraordinary like most people... I thought it was just me 😂

@LuisAngel-mu4zv

3 жыл бұрын

I loved it on first viewing the only complaint i had is the taxi driver references but then i saw king of comedy and realized joker stoled even more scenes from that too

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@LuisAngel-mu4zv My exact same experience

Yes I do think this movies borrows a lot but you still don’t get that it’s the joker he mainly learned that no one cared about him till they get absolutely what they want from to become crazy and that’s the joker he’s just meant to be this person he had to go to the darkest place possible in order to find his true self

I think we need to put more focus on how todd philips was able to give this sort of tone and aesthetic to a comic book villain. He took the darkness and grimey storytelling of the past and applied it to an iconic character. I dont think thats an easy task. He wears his inspiration on his sleeve,and perhaps borrowed a tad too much. But he also did fantastic in showing us the effects of jokers childhood relationships,mental illness and also the social climate of gotham. It’s a very different take on the joker. Additionally im sure that this film made some people in my generation(im born 2001) go back and take a look at the source of this type of filmmaking. Always loved the joker,loved this film,love scorsese’s films. Nice essay man,very interesting topic✌🏾

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I wholeheartedly agree, man. Like I said in the video, I didn’t hate the movie at all. I really wish Philips was just a little more confident in his own vision and take, much like Jim Mangold was with Logan.

I felt quite indifferent watching this movie. I knew what it was trying to go for but I just didn't buy into it. I didn't feel threatened by the Joker on any level nor did I sympathise with him. It looked similar to 'Taxi Driver' as presented in the video but also when he dances on the stairs it reminded me of 'A Clockwork Orange' minus the horror...the cinematography was good but it felt too sterile...The lighting reminded me of 'In the mood for love' but again it missed the mark. It had all these elements of a great film and yet it felt very empty which is what I seem to be feeling from most films coming out lately.

i just look up and BLOND ROBY yo ho ho dude. you look slick,

Well formulated analysis. However, I do not agree with it. Whereas Taxi Driver has critical subtexts to the post-Vietnam America, and The King of Comedy has critical subtexts to the Reagan administration, Joker is another beast altogether. Joker deals with mental health issues, trauma affecting your present and the damages that lack of empathy can lead to. Joker is not a black and white matter at all, there are no winners there. It is unapologetic, indeed. In my humble opinion, I think it is unfair to dismiss it as a meaningless imitation. I don't get the double standard, seriously. I don't see people complaining about The Dark Knight for having many nods to Michael Mann's craft. And neither do I complain about it, 'cause I take them for what they are, hat tips. So, don't get me wrong, I love The Dark Knight, as I love Joker. They equally have nods to equally great filmmakers. So why, if Nolan does it, all good, but when Phillips does it, imitation? I simply don't get it. Peace.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

That's understandable, dude.

@peterfrank3365

3 жыл бұрын

Nolan did a few nods, I'd say Phillips did a lot more than just that.

@captainronlives

3 жыл бұрын

@@peterfrank3365 what about Tarantino? His entire movies are nods, literally.

@peterfrank3365

3 жыл бұрын

@@captainronlives And I'd say Phillips did a lot less than Tarantino. His works are pastiche, they're self-conscious to a degree. 'Joker' only had De Niro.

Can you do a video of Mother 2017? If not then Babel

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Haven;t actually seen Mother, is it worth a watch?

@kartikadewi3270

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf worth it. The twist was surprisingly sad.

Correct❤️

Great video bro and can you do a video about Death Proof? I think it’s very underrated and it’s the lowest score of any Quentin Tarantino films.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Damn, that's a great fkn idea!

What about the imitation from Christian Bale starrer "The Machinist"? The central characters in both the movies fall in love with a fictional woman, the realization of which at the end shocks them.

@lookbovine

Жыл бұрын

King of Comedy did that first.

Yeah I totally agree with your analysis of the Joker. It doesn't have anything to say and when a film like Parasite is out around the same time that lack of meaning is even more apparent. I think that give Todd Phillips a few more films and maybe he will make something that is more than imitation. Thanks for the dope video.

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent B movie???? I liked it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker the whole time and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and said he was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. Because society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. And if Joker is relatable, I think it ruins the message it’s trying to say about Society. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. The true irony is Society praises a film that criticizes Society. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

@MadGravityStudios

3 жыл бұрын

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I'm a little lost in your comment. So you're saying that you though Joker was decent and that it was really hyped up?

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

@@MadGravityStudios Yeah exactly, I wasnt super crazy about the movie but it was fine. Did I say something wrong?

@MadGravityStudios

3 жыл бұрын

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 naw you just had a lot in that comment, so I was trying to make sure I understood. Yeah the Joker is a solid movie, but had alot of hype attached to it

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

100000%

To me this movie just kept screaming at me about how IMPORTANT it was when it was just a fine, well shot, well acted film about The Joker. Nothing else. We sure do live in a society huh guys?

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

The movie is the equivalent of the Ross Geller "Get a load of this society" meme

@timpage9424

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf Honestly. It was beautifully shot and I love the score but it's just kind of a hollow film.

Joker first appearance 1940 and king of comedy and taxi driver 30 and 40 years after so

@lookbovine

Жыл бұрын

The movie The Joker rips off those movies, not the comic book character! That same character was not remotely similar in 1940 ... his backstory was totally different in 1989. I hope you were joking...

ima get that wallet

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Please do!

This is one of the first videos where I disagree with what you say. Still, loved the video

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, brother

Why not enjoy both movies instead of saying one is better than the other? Joker isn't definitely a copy of Taxi Driver, I would've hate the movie if that would've been the case.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, they're pretty damn close, man.

The Short Answer The Movie Mixed Some People Love and Some People Hate It That's It

I am not that Roby.

I disagree with the take that the film has nothing to say with it's homages, I think even quentin tarantino talked about it on a podcast, but the choice is deliberately there to break the rules scorsese typically uses in his films. During the course of taxi driver and king of comedy, scorsese works very hard to disconnect you from the characters of travis and rupert, you're expected to see pieces of yourself and others any sane person knows they are bad people and you shouldn't identify with them. Joker does the opposite, it works very hard to get you to identify with Arthur and understand him, to the point at which when he finally kills murray, you're supposed to agree with him, making it more satisfying than the endings to both king of comedy or taxi driver, because you should relate to arthur, as horrific as that is. Scorsese films are about people who is vile, disgusting and morally bad, joke tries to breakdown a person snapping and why we would relate to it. Highly recommend taratino's video on it, can probably find it b just searching taratino talks about joker on youtube.

It defiantly copies the king of comedy the most. It’s hard for me to find anything original with it.

I like both movies. I resonate more with joker tho I felt bad for him tbh. That’s my opinion though. Yh ofc him killin people isn’t good I get why he did it but that loss of morality is not right 100 percent.

I find your argument compelling, except, you forgot a key element about Joker, which is The Joker. The character The Joker is one of the most complex comic book characters out there because he is so chaotic and even in the comics his personality is always changing. So I believe Todd Phillips, was not using the King of Comedy or Taxi Driver to say something about society, but instead to ground a character that is so often too grandiose (even in The Dark Knight). Remember this is an origin story of a Super Villian, but by making so many references to the aforementioned movies, you never get the sense that this character is in any way, superhuman, just the opposite really. But then we have to take something else into account, which is the era on which the movie is set in, that's where the critique on society comes into play. By setting it on the '70s or '80s and using those Scorcese films as blueprints, with this fictional character as a protagonist, the imitation is not that, but instead, it becomes a comparison, it's a juxtaposition of several elements that when viewed from our point in time changes their meaning. Why? because people are already familiar with that era, with The Joker, The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver, but from their individual contexts. And when mixed together, they become Joker, a film that uses the words of Scorcese, in the language of that particular era, to tell us about a supervillain that is not super at all, and in our day and age, that makes the character more poignant and points out the fact, that in our current society it could still happen. At least that's what I think haha.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

except the movie couldn't pick a lane between making a movie about the joker and a movie showing how anyone could become joker, so it did neither, they didn't write the character as if he was an active protagonist making choices,however fucked up, for personal reasons, like for example they could have had him kill murray explicitely because of his father issues and stuff but instead they had him do a speech with the same overtone as an anonymous rant, so that arthur didn't kill murray because he's damaged but because...murray is rich, literally, screw him for being succesful in the profession he wanted to be succesful in and inviting him to the show giving him more exposure than he could ever possibly have gotten; no they have to play everything as society's fault so bringing a loaded gun into a children's hospital and dropping is framed as something only an asshole would fire you for, which is not the case obviously, they forgot to make a movie about a maniac with his own fucked up way of seeing the world because they were busy trying blaming everything on society, or the government, or an asshole boss, everyone but him essentially, so they don't have a movie about a madman with a perspective interesting to the purpose.of a character study as he chooses nothing, does nothing and blames everything on everyone else, and we don't have a social commentary as people in this movie are either assholes for no reason, or are actually normal people doing sensible things like thomas wayne, but the movie pretends like since arthur has it rough people are assholes even though they are perfectly logical in how they act, case and point you need a whole plot twist thing to distract you from the fact that thomas wayne was right in treating him like shit, but then since he's rich and trated poor little arthur badly for good fucking reasons he gets to be shot, and the movie has the gull to pretend like he had it coming, sp the message of the movie becomes "everyone can become joker, if you're off your meds with a history of mental illness, your city sucks so much you get beaten on the street for no reason twice in three days, you lose your job and act like it's not your fault and then finally you unlock memories hidden by trauma that specifically made you get involved with a guy that happens to be rich and powerful so you can act like it's society's fault for having been trated like shit despite it being your mother's"

@cooleffectsfilms

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcogianesello6083 Woow, this is so cool! So you saw the movie from Arthur's perspective, it's so crazy! but also really valid. I mean you're right about everything you said, but that is not the movie's intent, but the characters point of view, he's always trying to excuse his inexcusable behaviour by blaming his problems on other people. Yes, he has an awful trauma and is mentally ill, but because he also knows that he uses it as even another excuse to be vile. And because we follow only his character throughout the movie, I get why you felt that is was the point of the film to excuse him. But it was just the opposite because there was no bad day that made him The Joker, in this film he's always The Joker, the evil psychotic clown, and like a serial killer, he tries to blame his actions on his victims, with him never being the guilty one. It is not until the end when he visually becomes The Joker when he stops hiding that he is, in fact, a villain. And again, I find it really cool that you saw the movie from his point of view, and realize from the get-go that he was always inexcusable. Because he was.

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

@@cooleffectsfilms i would agree, if the movie did anything to achieve that effect, because let's even assume i'm supposed to have only seen things from his unreliable perspective, they completely undercut the plot twist of his girlfriend and bothered to overexplain it with flashbacks, so i doubt in the first place that anything apart from the ending is meant to have any use of "subjective" reality, which it can't pull off because apart from looking good and being well lit and having joaquin phoenix in frame all the time the movie ain't much in terms of directing, even if i were to believe that i can't pinpoint any scene and say "this isn't a fantasy" then i'd say that the movie was drab and lifeless in the opposite sense, tame, not exactly interesting if it's supposed to make you feel inside madman's mind, so if you tell me that he invented the story to tell himself then i'd say it still remains a meh story that actually is a lie, anyway i don't want him to not be a piece of shit, i wanted the movie to stop trying to act like he's not when its way of justifying it and framing what happens is completely lackluster, at one point watchinh i was just begging for him to do something fucked up for any reason that wasn't society, but of course, all the way down to the "fight the powa" moment

@lookbovine

Жыл бұрын

@@cooleffectsfilms He bought the story of the unreliable narrator to completely miss the point of the movie...that’s so cool?

@cooleffectsfilms

Жыл бұрын

@@lookbovine Yes, that's what he saw and felt and that's awesome. It's different from what I think, sure, but he felt so strongly about it that he wanted properly discuss it with some else. Talking about what you see in movies is fun, as long as we're all respectful of course. But in this case I believe we are and thus makes it fun.

I guess being a collage artist is in🤷🏻‍♂️ I don't mind it. I thought joker was great.

Lets be real the film also stole a lot for Fight Club too lol

@lymmy9609

2 жыл бұрын

Fight club stole from taxi driver alot.

NO SOCIETY JOKE, INSTANT DISLIKE

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I really tried not to do it lmaooo

“Iconic movies” king of comedy is a cult classic and was proven a massive massive flop that hurt Martin for years YEARS.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Doesn't change the fact that it's now an iconic film.

I liked the movie on its own but once you realize it uses so much of Martin Scorcezy , it kinda ruins it. I just watch King of Comedy and oh boy, i kinda hate Joker now haha

Don't get me wrong I enjoy joker but it's not really paying homage or referencing the other films it is just straight up copy and paste.

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent B movie???? I liked it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker the whole time and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and said he was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. Because society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. And if Joker is relatable, I think it ruins the message it’s trying to say about Society. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. The true irony is Society praises a film that criticizes Society. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

I totally disagree

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, I could have just said that, but I didn't want to cause a HUGE stir.

Joker is just king of comedy with Travis bickle instead.

I will check on comments two days later, lol. I have even more brutal opinion about Joker, but ia with you completely in copying Scorsese movies without understanding what makes them work. I just want to point that it doesn't matter how good, thoughtful and well understood by it's own creators movie is, one good awards campaign is enough to get best film nomination and best director for Todd Philips. Thanks god Parasite saved us all.

@ronaldmcdonald2817

3 жыл бұрын

Parasite is overrated. Joker or 1917 should have won best picture.

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent B movie???? I liked it and didn’t mind it but it wasn’t 10/10 or close and not super or really thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . I didn’t even root for The Joker the whole time and I saw so many people who said they rooted for everything Joker did and said he was “relatable” and the everyday man and human, like it’s never been done before. And it felt more like a criticism on capitalism and rich people as a whole than society. But society is more then just upper class jerks, like the lower and mid class aren’t filled with “awful” people. Why do you have to bring up social class always when trying to bring a message about society as a whole?? Parasite already did that in a much better way imho. And if Joker is relatable, I think it ruins the message it’s trying to say about Society. People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. The true irony is Society praises a film that criticizes Society. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

Lol, how you tried to stretch this drab of a video with a 3 fucking minute ad just to get to the 10min mark.

I think this movie, like House that Jack Built, Machinist, Parasite and American Psycho, Prestige... are so polarizing because they probably require extreme amounts of empathy by the audience. If you "get it", you're inside and it's beautiful and visceral and something you feel in your soul. If you don't, then I guess it's bound to be just "fine." That "happy ending" with Joker in the sunlight... If you can't feel that and it's just "fine" then idk... I honestly feel a little bit sorry for all the people in these comments who were like "meh". I'm a little bit obsessed with movies and screenwriting and I know people generally care less about the cinema experience, but watching this review just made me feel sad. There are a lot of shit movies out there that will leave you numb and jaded, but you can't let them blind you to the point where you can't see the magic when it happens right in front of you. I'd recommend giving it a rewatch, but this time without trying to spot every reference. See past the references, it's not an episode of Community... The trivia isn't relevant. There's a whole different Todd Phillips comic masterpiece under the Scorsese veneer. Just saying. Try it. Everything to gain. Nothing to lose except a little bit of time.

You, Bob Chipman and Ralphthemoviemaker have the Worst Take on Joker (2019)

@marcogianesello6083

3 жыл бұрын

anyone who raves about have the worst take on joker

NOT FINE, IT'S PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MARVALOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAJESTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Blip-qz9ch

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao

Joker is pretty much taxi driver but with a bit more action, clown makeup, better soundtrack

@wet-read

8 ай бұрын

And with a protagonist that isn't allowed to be seen as flawed. Just a victim, and chronically misunderstood.

@Vadim_Slastihin

3 ай бұрын

Better soundtrack? L

I don't know what to say here, some folks in the comments already did it well. Yeah, this video deserves a dislike for outright dishonesty, hypocrisy and missing the point entirely.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Lame

I think joker is good,lacking in some aspects but, I think taxi driver and the king of comedy is better

Ahhhh you're blonde

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

Is this a good "ahhhh" or a bad "ahhhh" ?

@gavinvales8928

3 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf i couldn't decide so i left it as is

Honesty you took the words right out of my mouth. I honestly find Joker hardly noteworthy, beyond this mildly simmering disappointment that it could’ve been something REALLY noteworthy were it not so caught up trying to be other movies.

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

3 жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one who thought it was a decent and solid B movie???? I liked it but it wasn’t 10/10 and super thought provoking like everybody hyped it to be . People, Society, and KZread Film critics were hyping this movie up like its Original and Gonna change Society , has a lot to say, and is this and that. I’ve heard people say that Joker is the most psychologically disturbing thing they have ever seen, and they claim to have seen a lot of screwed up stuff.! I had someone literally come at my face and tell me it’s better than anything The MCU has done because it’s Dark, Gritty and is about the Joker.

You've failed to convince me that Joker is plagiarizing the films you referenced or that it's relying on their "exclusive" aesthetic over its own narrative. The only concrete references provided are shot comparisons where they only look a little similar on the surface but where two completely different scenes are playing out.

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

I will tell you the similarities with King of Comedy. About Taxi Driver you should just look up some other video, a lot of people show the similarities. Look at the similarities with King of Comedy: -Both Rupert and Arthur are lonely failed comedians who wants to be successful, and both live in an apartment with their mom. -Both Rupert and Arthur want their existence to be validated and acknowledged -Both Rupert and Arthur are obsessed with a very famous and successful stand up comedian. -The successful comedian clearly doesn’t care about Rupert/Arthur so he does him dirty, and Rupert/Arthur turns against him and does something bad to him in the end(in KOC he kidnaps him and threatens his life, in Joker he kills him) -Both Rupert and Arthur end up with a level of fame at the end because of what they did. BUT WAIT THERES MORE -Also both Rupert and Arthur are in love with a girl that they don’t actually get(both are black, I know that doesn’t matter but I thought it was an interesting coincidence) -Both Rupert and Arthur imagine the things that they want. There are several scenes in King of Comedy that are in Rupert's head where he imagines himself marrying the girl he loves, and he imagines himself being validated by his comedian idol and being friends with him. DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? Hell there’s even a scene in Joker where Arthur is like talking alone and practicing his act sitting with Murray, that scene is literally a straight up copy of a scene in King of Comedy Now add ALL of that to the dark gritty tone and style of Taxi Driver of a “lonely mentally disturbed man in a dirty disgusting crime filled city with a terrible society” and then obviously change some minor details and add the common Batman mythos to try and make it a Joker origin story and you basically have “JOKER by Todd Phillips”.

@kodybuffettwilson

2 жыл бұрын

@@Johnnysmithy24 These are mostly surface-level similarities, they are fundamentally different films in terms of tone, plot, and character.

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@kodybuffettwilson They are too many and too obvious to ignore. I already said that if you combine it with the tone and plot of Taxi Driver and add in the Joker you basically get this movie. And the characters aren’t really that different. Rupert Pupkin mixed with Travis Bickle is basically Arthur Fleck.

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@kodybuffettwilson The movie took the tone, look, and concept of Taxi Driver and just added a lot of plot points from The King of Comedy. King of Comedy is about a loner’s obsession with social validation, which Arthur also has hence the quote “My entire life I didn’t know if I even existed, but I do and people are starting to notice” that and everything else I already mentioned. Taxi Driver is about a mentally disturbed loner in a dirty crime filled city who just wants to fire back at the disgusting society he lives in. Sound familiar? That and a lot of minor scenes and details. The differences between the movies are WAY more minor than the similarities. Joker is indeed a ripoff. Just because they managed to change some obvious details doesn’t excuse how unoriginal it is.

I hadn’t watched king of comedy before watching joker. So it was actually a lot better and I found king of Comedy not that great and that’s a problem.

@RobyFN2169dtf

3 жыл бұрын

If you don’t mind my asking, why didn’t you click with King of Comedy?

@bacht4799

3 жыл бұрын

iamthatroby hey excuse me get between this person and you but if it’s okay.. I agree with King Of Comedy.. don’t get me wrong it’s a great movie and I really like that cameo of Joe Strummer from The Clash .. but I just don’t like how grinch it is and embarrassing it can be in some cases.. I like Taxi Driver so much more.. it’s click much better for me.. it’s like I ❤️ The Big Lebowski but can’t handle Fargo .. again it’s a great movie but it’s not for me.. too cold and nihilistic for my taste.. rather like No Country For Old Men .. still nihilistic just less cold.. 😊

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@bacht4799 I love King of Comedy because I find Rupert Pupkin's obsession with giving meaning to his life and having social validation insanely relatable. It’s one of the movies that make me feel vulnerable and uncomfortable because of how close it hits.

@bacht4799

2 жыл бұрын

@@Johnnysmithy24 haven’t seen it like that.. that’s is a good way at seen that movie.. I just know a lot of people didn’t like that character because they think he was a selfish, arrogant, disrespectful and narcissistic person who wants fame but not the hard work too earned it felt entitled to it .. but that another way is a good way to see at it too

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@bacht4799 Rupert was an extremely flawed man, and all those words are correct to describe him, however that’s what makes it brilliant. I don’t look for movies with perfect characters, I look for movies with realistic flawed humans. I myself have been many of those things, and I’m self aware of it(not proud of it). We as humans do a lot of stupid and selfish things for the things that we want. King of Comedy is probably Scorsese’s most significant movie about society and is even way more relevant today. The quote “Better to be king for a night than schmuck for a lifetime” pretty much perfectly describes the mentality of today’s society obsessed with social media and doing crazy stuff on the internet to become viral. Society is and has always been so obsessed with fame and social validation(I am no exception) as a way to look for something that makes them feel better about themselves, and nowadays it’s worse than it’s always been with the internet.

Joker is something else , not a comparison to Taxi driver Joker is not trying to reference anything

@norm-bb3bb

3 жыл бұрын

There are definitely references from Taxi Driver but that doesn't mean is a copy like this critic said, if it would've been a copy, this movie would have never won The Golden Lion.

This Joker is not smart. He is not funny and he is too soft to eventually stand toe to toe with a Batman. Its a good movie but not a good Comic book movie.

Joker in my opinion is ridiculously uninspired bordering on plagiarism. From what I hear Joker 2 is going to be another "homage" to Scorsese but a remake of New York, New York...