Correction, the founders of Zionism were not focusing on "the covenant". It was about saving the Jewish nation from destruction by building a homeland.

@ournomadtravels

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. One of the many things he got wrong in his simplistic presentation. Most of the early Zionist leaders were uninterested in Judaism and many were in fact atheists.

@bpcj4891

2 ай бұрын

Yea that was very bizarre of him to say!

@BrickBreaker21

2 ай бұрын

Right all he did was state religious zionism, and pretend it was all of zionism.

@holyfool343

Ай бұрын

This was very curious. It’s true that many *Christian* proto-Zionists in the US and UK - I’m thinking in the 1830s through the 1860s or so - were focused on the fulfillment of prophecy etc. Jewish proto-Zionists following the Damascus Affair contained a religious component, but were really focused on survival, given that neither Christian nor Muslim states could or would protect them.

Forgot to mention that it used to be called Israel many thousands of years ago.

@moffat5914

2 ай бұрын

No it didn't, Israel is a man not a place the 12 tribes of Israel are the 12 sons of Israel, the land was called cannan, the tribe of Judah which king David was from came from the land of Judea.....the land was never called Israel historically, it also wasnt called Palestine either but that's a different topic

@christianebrown9213

2 ай бұрын

@@moffat5914 Israel was, and is, considered a nation. America is considered a nation. Germany is considered a nation. China is considered a nation. And Palestinians, if I'm not mistaken, also consider themselves a nation, but as you mentioned that's a different topic and history. Yes, a people can be considered "a nation". Whether it was named Judea or not, in the historic and religious texts of the times, Israel existed as a nation thousands of years ago.

@TaylorBrain

29 күн бұрын

@@moffat5914 It was 100% called Israel thousand of years ago my man. Do some research.

@eden5260

26 күн бұрын

​@@moffat5914 Kingdom of Israel dummy . 12 tribes of Israel Judea 3 different times in history all involving the Jews

@JesseWoolmer

17 күн бұрын

​@@moffat5914before it was the kingdom of David or the Kingdom of Judah, it was the Kingdom of Israel... Literally for centuries, my man.

What? Are you mischaracterizing both World Wars as a christian crusades? Or did I missed few in 20th century? The last chart looks dubious.. if not intentionally misleading.

@borgo9696

2 ай бұрын

yeah,that stood out to me as well....complete false equivalence so he can make a comparison to Christians and groups like Boko Haram and ISIS. None of the WW were in the name of Jesus,Christianity etc and its ideology wasnt a driving/dominant factor or used as a justification for the wars. Even in Medieval Europe most wars between european kingdoms werent on the basis of Christianity(sure it has been used as a political tool). To compare radical Islam today which followers geniunely want to murder/convert etc the "non-believer" on the basis of Islamic theology and Christianity is so insincere

@tosuchino6465

2 ай бұрын

I agree. Naturally, there is no explanation of its source, data collection method, or context. That graph tells you nothing about the reality of the religions but only manipulates the impression of them.

5:33 - Whoops. He may want to reword that. Never heard a college professor get away with calling the crimes against Jews during the Holocaust "beyond reproach." 😂

We all gotta face the truth in the end... Thank you as always

A greate class and discusion. Thx Sam and Voluntiers

wow, every one debating on this conflict needs to see it. every side just shouting their own narrative and not seeing the other side or the complex context of the situation or humanity in general.

The historical background here is pretty vague and maybe a little anachronistic. For (relatively) short free summaries of the time before the establishment of Israel, I recommend reading "Ottoman Policy and Restrictions on Jewish Settlement in Palestine: 1881-1908-Part I" for pre-mandate Jewish immigration and "A Survey of Palestine: 1945" for the timeline of Mandate Palestine from the English perspective.

Colonization can never be justified no matter what.

4:10 A bit misleading to say there were Palestinians AND Christians. Contrary to what many people imagine, a sizeable proportion of the Palestinian population is Christia.

@souadghaffari3904

2 ай бұрын

I noticed the same. Saying Jewish, Christians and Palestinians is incredibly misleading, as the first two are religions and the latter is a nationality. Palestinians come from all ibrahimaic religions. The conflict is between Zionists (colonizers) and Palestinians (colonized, displaced, killed, tortured..). It's sad that Jewish people are being betrayed by this violent, extremist ideology.

@ournomadtravels

2 ай бұрын

Although it’s also true that the Christian population of Palestinians living in Palestine has decreased dramatically over the last few decades, both in actual numbers and in proportion to the population. This is also true in Israel.

@Genarii

10 күн бұрын

Yeah, this fellow is way too uninformed to be lecturing to young minds on this topic.

The graph considers protests as violence, I would contest that

@3inrifle

2 ай бұрын

"Mostly peaceful" riots, right?

@Genarii

10 күн бұрын

Protests could include violence, but obviously are not automatically violence. Are you sure the graph considers *any* protest violence?

@3inrifle

10 күн бұрын

@Genarii - as soon as the Sturmableitung throwing these "mostly peaceful" protests prevent anyone from going about their normal, legal daily business it is violent. 20 people surrounding someone, half a centimeter from them, shouting angrily, prevending them from moving by intimidation is for all practical purposes, kidnapping.

I wonder what his thoughts are with Sam Harris’s take. Would love to be able to afford such a professor let alone college

The recording looks a decade old at least.

Thank you for having civil discourse about this topic. Very refreshing compared to a lot of the content that is out there.

Whether the followers of a religion end up peaceful or violent depends not only on the religion, but also on whether people follow what defines the religion, the role model. There is a certain difference between holding a peaceful man without political ambitions as your role model and holding a warlord as your role model.

@Lurch685

2 ай бұрын

You have quite literally no clue what you’re talking about.

@FuLengLives

2 ай бұрын

​@@Lurch685whats wrong? Was he not a Warlord?

@hurdygurdyman1905

2 ай бұрын

​@@Lurch685YOU literally have no clue. Mohammed was a warlord.

@andrewparle9183

2 ай бұрын

@@Lurch685 seems like @ahkkariq7406 nailed it.

@bunnystrasse

2 ай бұрын

Muhammad was a warlord. He robbed caravans. ​@@Lurch685

This is really bad. Im not even sure if its biased to the Israeli or palestinian side. It's just wrong.

@jestbag6001

2 ай бұрын

American media so bad that you can't believe there can be an unbiased media, or at least one that considers all sides

I haven't heard so much nonsense and inaccuracies and unfounded comparisons in a long time, I don't even know where to start correcting. If this is the level of knowledge of the lecturers at the university, it is no wonder that the students do not understand anything about reality

This professor is really downplaying the extremism in the population. Rough estimates indicate that 15 - 20% of Islam hold to extremist ideologies. The other point is that Islam is not just a religious belief but also a political movement. Islamic countries have the worst human rights records as well as persecution of other religions. You can't compare that to Western countries or Israel.

I get his point, but he really misrepresented A LOT of history and religion with his simplistic, relativistic presentation. He should stick to sociology -- he's no good at history.

@norahe1953

2 ай бұрын

Instead of using examples to validate & enlighten on your sentiment, you insult the speaker. How modern of you.

@hurdygurdyman1905

2 ай бұрын

@@norahe1953 Delineating what he is good at -- his actual academic discipline -- and what he's not -- a different academic discipline -- isn't "insulting" him. That you can't tell the difference -- how very modern of you.

@norahe1953

2 ай бұрын

@@hurdygurdyman1905 “he’s no good at history” while providing nothing objective to counter what he said would be the insult I’m referring to.

@norahe1953

2 ай бұрын

Also, you literally can not effectively teach sociology without discussing history. Respectfully.

@ournomadtravels

2 ай бұрын

@@norahe1953It’s not an insult. It’s weird you can’t see that. And you yourself insult the OC in your first comment with your sarcasm and then write “respectfully”? Sorry, the respect train left the station when you insulted him.

Very poorly done historical background

@eden5260

26 күн бұрын

The historical background wasn't the main topic here . He isn't a history teacher

@JesseWoolmer

17 күн бұрын

​@@eden5260I'd say it's still pretty relevant though. Particularly since it's being posited that certain historical injustices are driving current events in the region. But if your origin story is historically inaccurate, then the theory that said events are the genesis of current problems, falls apart.

@eden5260

17 күн бұрын

@@JesseWoolmer if you come with the Palestinian narrative and claim that is historical you're on the crazy side Just to let you know. What affects current events Is about Islam and pan Arabism Learn that and get back . No injustices drive violence every single story of people in the world as 10 times the injustice than this one.