The overwhelming catalogue of errors in this index, gives me hope that a lot of these datasheets are a typo, and we get the real index soon. Space Wolves are DOA with this release

@robsonez

9 ай бұрын

Space wolves were suffering in 9th. They are now wolf shit in 10th.

I think the only change they need to make these sagas worthwhile is to let you activate as many as you want in one turn. If you fuflfill three sagas in a turn you’d should just unlock all three. Let’s us get the buffs early enough to be relevant but still makes them a challenge to unlock.

Space Wolves are the chapter of the thunder hammer. They’ve messed with the whole ferocity of the wolves and if it doesn’t get FAQ’d they’ll dwindle into the background rather than being one of the main SM chapters 😢

@robsonez

9 ай бұрын

You say that but prior to 9th there were many, many more options. Named characters are just shells now in comparison to 7th.

It is truly the end of days, the wolf time

They absolutely neutered the TWC and Wulfen. STILL sad to see it as they’re the main hammer for my space wolf army. Using them to run around the flanks to pick off good targets was key for me. Now they can just handle chaff and my infantry can do that. My intercessors, incursors, grey hunters can tackle chaff. The TWC and Wulfen took out monsters, vehicles, termies. Just absolutely gutted to see them reduced to such a low place.

Hard to not feel dissapointed in the Heirloom weapons thing. Seems to be the premier combat units going forward will be redemptor and brutalis dreadnoughts, really a shame losing hammers on TWC when BA get to keep theirs on death company

@Bran_Redmaw

Жыл бұрын

Just Lazy really isn't it. This could all he so much better with the tiniest ammont of effort

I think there will be enough uproar to get the heirloom weapons changed. Makes me worry about the orks, "heirloom choppa".

Gutted with these data sheets, the relic weapons. Going to miss my wolf guards with jump packs and the thunderwolf Cav with hammers.

@BlackBunik

Жыл бұрын

I fielded my wolfguards with jump packs only once... :/

@dmgdrunkenmultiplayergamin5631

Жыл бұрын

I just finished making 20 wolf guard with jump packs and now i have to modify them to sky claws or rip the jump pack off for standard backpacks. Im so conflicted on that one now. Also njal now needs to lead termies which i dont have.

@Connor_Forsythe

Жыл бұрын

@@dmgdrunkenmultiplayergamin5631 Oh man that's gutting, I hope the skyclaws work out for you. Oh I've always had some Termies but never had the excuse to run more than one squad. Looks like I do now. I better get a few more heroes by the looks of it too. Murderfang, Ragnar and Logan 🤣 oh the joys.

@robsonez

9 ай бұрын

There were tonnes more options in the past. They have been reduced considerably over the last couple of editions. It used to be a flavourful chapter. Now it's just space marines with beards.

Looks like Gladius Strike Force is going to be the way to go for now

The thing you missed about the black death is that's it's pretty great on a thunder hammer. The reason why is because the 'anti' rule states that a critical wound is caused on the roll specified. Thunder Hammers have the devastating wounds rule, which states that on a critical wound (usually a roll of 6, but with anti it becomes a 4+) it deals 2 mortal wounds instead of normal damage. So with this, your TH now deals 2 mortals on every roll of 4+ to wound. If you combine that with oath of moment you can do some pretty insane damage with just 1 character on a vehicle and monster.

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

Wow...yeah that is good👍

Sagas were a "great" addition to the Space Wolves army, very thematic, but since they were introduced, you mostly only used one or two that you knew you had a chance of triggering. And they came with a passive ability that were active for your character from turn 1. Sad to see that the SW are meeh, my love and joy since 1993 with hundreds of models ranging from old retro metal models (i never sell, trash or get rid of models) to the "latest" plastic firstborn kits, and also a large collection of wulfen. Also no more wolf guard models in other units, guess is that GW want SW to be codex compliant. And rules for chapter specific units nerfed becouse why should you use Wolfguard or Wulfen, when you could run Blade guard instead... yes yes buy new stuff... =(

@Dagenham_Swish

Жыл бұрын

Blood claws grey hunters and longfangs can all still have Wolf guard squad leaders, they are a seperate datacard toward the end of the digital download

@Brissebrajan

Жыл бұрын

@@Dagenham_Swish Thank you Oliver, you fantasic human! =) In my defence, i read down to the wulfen datacard and after that just skimmered over the rest of the PDF.

@Rothgar59

Жыл бұрын

Wolf Guard can be added as other have said, the only three of any datacard except heroes and battleline means you can only have three of each. standard and terminator can go in BC GH and LF units, standard with jump pack can only go in sky claws, Thunderwolf go with Thunderwolf cavalry. Probably put Terminator in LF packs because the reduced movement wont be an issue most of the time and you can give them the cyclone missile launcher to add long range firepower, LF are not Battleline so you can only have three max. Jump pack WG with sky claws are also only three each, same with Thunder wolves. The only downside is if you want to field more than three BC and GH packs combined you only have three Wolf Guard to spread around a possible 12 units, at least the named characters can also mostly join these squads.

@Brissebrajan

Жыл бұрын

@@Rothgar59 Yes like Oliver pointed out in his reply above =), i missed the Pack leader datacards n my frustration. The rest i got from the main army building rules of restrictions to datacards (3 of the same except 6 for battleline and transport).

@Rothgar59

Жыл бұрын

@@Brissebrajan Mainly venting my frustrations on the limited amount of standard Pack Leaders, always used to run one on small packs of Blood Claws.

The overwhelming amount of SW players who are just unhappy and disappointed in this is bad news. We got screwed over pretty hard and it sucks that it's my only 40k army...

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

Best hope is an early codex and some fixes🤕🤔😢

@dooj42

Жыл бұрын

As far as I have seen, Wolves aren't going to get an index until the tail end of 10th 😢

I could understand the wulfen weapons IF wulfen get a pretty hefty points drop and get positioned as a hordey, chaffy unit. A marine army with horde capability could be interesting. The thunderwolves is interesting as I have never considered them, since 6th edition, to be an elite hunting unit, and are much better for crashing into weaker units. If we take out the AoO free wargear and actually go back to previous points values, 7 S5 ap-1 D2 (on the charge) per model isn't that bad for the purpose of clearing troops and other MEQs. I think they are being redefined as a more light cavalry than heavy cavalry unit. As with anything though, we will have to see points to really get a proper idea of what exactly GW are doing here

Hm, not that happy with the wolfs. The detachment rule and the strategems are an innate handicapp. The former excludes you from any buffs on the first turn and afterwards you have to be successful enough in getting your characters where they need to go. Something your opponent knows of course. Saga of the bear/beastslayer seem a bit more reasonable. A well placed Bjorn can be targeted anyway and is tough enough to survive a bit of baited firepower. The strategems getting stronger with an active saga is similar to the gladius detachment. In that one however you can plan when to use them, as you have active control over that. In this case not having advance and charge via a strategem, until the saga is complete, hurts. I dislike losing options for the TWC, but I guess they now are more intended as carrier-unit for characters. The characters in general are fairly good and they seem to be the focus here. If I would have to guess, general units will get cheaper, characters a bit more expensive. Wulfen though just look terrible. Is there even a character that attaches to them? Do units confer their abillity to the attached character by the way? Ragnar having one more attack, or Canis having damage 2 wouöd be nice.

Personally absolutely love what they've done with this index..... except, for heirloom weapons and the poor poor wulfen. A tragic saga for them. Can't understand why they've done it.

Well 10th is doing fantastic I see, already managed to single handily ruin my army :D

can anybody explain the MOUNTED keyword? I cant find a complte datasheet keyword breakdown anywhere yet... surely its gonna be advance and charge?

Having looked through these downloadable index cards online it is a bit strange how so many apparent errors make it through after two years of developing this edition from the ground up. They have fixed the venerable dreadnought profile but the Stormfang Gunship still has the gun profiles swapped the wrong way around. Grey hunters appear to have lost the option to equip plasma pistols although the weapon profile for plasma pistols is still on their datasheet. Meanwhile, wolf scouts only have 1 wound whereas regular space marine scouts have gone up to 2 wounds - surely another error? Hopefully the right changes are made before the physical index cards become available for general purchase. I really like the idea of the sagas but the wolves don’t feel quite right and need a few tweaks so they match their reputation in the lore. I definitely feel they have targeted the wrong units with their weapon profile simplifications as well. It seems very strange that the specialist veteran units like Vanguard Veterans, Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry are to be dumbed down so much whereas battleline units are still customisable. I think heirloom weapons are a cool idea to replace the chainsword profile for these specialist units to make them feel more potent than chainswords in battleline units, but still offer the player other equipment choices. Alternatively, dumb down the profiles equally amongst all infantry units rather than just the veterans and fluffy units that have always been highly customisable. They shouldn’t feel less personal and useful than more common units. That would be my two cents. Still super excited for 10th edition!

They seem a little underwhelming but try not to feel too down on them Luke as every army has had a massive damage de-buff. They've also said that every new codex will have at least one new kit/character done so I'm intrigued to see what SW's get

@PetrPetrovich

Жыл бұрын

yea, but we'll have to wait for a codex a year minimum...

@Bran_Redmaw

Жыл бұрын

Also the Indexes are so nerfed either the codexes will also have to be total shit or whichever army gets the newest codex will instantly be the best.

@dmgdrunkenmultiplayergamin5631

Жыл бұрын

Theyre getting a wulfen dreadnaught and a wulf scout kit i think based on the data sheets.

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah...won't give up on the wolves. New codex will fix a lot i think🤔👍🙂

@kennethwest3406

Жыл бұрын

Character resculpt.....we got about 5-7 that could be rescued from resin.

Just curious if my primaris half of the leviathan box could be run as space wolves minus the apothecary? Was hoping to make a primaris wolves list for Ragnar being in primaris armour.

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

You may be able to not sure🤔

@Dagenham_Swish

Жыл бұрын

Everything except the apothecary is fine for Space Wolves

@heralias2441

Жыл бұрын

I'm not 100% sure but aren't wolves priests a thing can't you just convert the model

@dornanplays

Жыл бұрын

@@heralias2441 very good point, could just run the apothecary as a wolf priest and librarian as rune priest etc

@Dagenham_Swish

Жыл бұрын

@@heralias2441 there is no wolf priest entry any more, they are just chaplains, same with rune priests, they are just librarians.

The saga's are quite fluffy an sound good on paper. But my biggest ire with them are not only that you can only avtivate one per turn, but that they can be so easily played against if your opponent knows how they're activated. But even with them, that won't help you much against tanks and monsters. Those are really hard to shift with melee, and since combiweapons are anti-inf.... yeah. The other thing that bothers me is that aside from special characters I don't feel incentivised to take any unique SW unit over a standard codex one since their melee output is compareable or sometimes worse than some codex units. Well, maybe I'll take some Longfangs. Now if only they could ride impulsors, I'd have a perfect use for that Firingdeck 6 :P

Remember Ulriks ability will also trigger against units with attached characters since they are ‘character units’.

@rankcolour8780

Жыл бұрын

They don't become a character unit, that would break the targeting rules. They are known as an "attached unit". The non character models are called "bodyguard models". You cannot target the character while the bodyguard is alive so you are not targeting a character. They don't share keywords only certain rules.

@robsonez

9 ай бұрын

All of the character specific abilities shared with units were removed an edition or 2 ago. There's no spice in space wolves sadly anymore.

How to play wolves in 10th? Don't bother.

@Bran_Redmaw

Жыл бұрын

That sums it up nicely

The wulfen hammer must be a mistake.

The wolves got Neutered, no love from GW

I don't know if this is the same across other armies but the number of typos in these datasheets really suggest a lack of care on GW's part. Feels like SW are going to be a puzzle with a skill level far to high for someone like me too crack.

@Dagenham_Swish

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree, I think Space wolves are going to take quite a lot to effectively steer them, they have a fair amount of things that have to go off at just the right time.

Did I miss it or is there no generic Wolf Priest?, Long Fangs have a leader and 4-5 Long Fangs? why the extra heavy weapon?. Wolf Priests still can't fulfill the role of Chaplain and Apothecary, plus they took away access to the Primaris Apothecary (not that I use Primaris) I guess they don't want Space Wolves healing as you could achieve a Deed and then get healed above the Deeds requirements. As for deeds the issue I have with them is your opponent knows what they are and can actively counter them being achieved. Wolf Scouts are back, but don't get access to sniper rifles, at least we can still access the normal scouts.

@rankcolour8780

Жыл бұрын

Long Fangs have always had the extra heavy weapon, at least for the last 3 editions anyway. SW never had access to the Primaris Apothecary, or any Apothecary. There wasn't a Priest last edition either, you took the codex Chaplain and it got the priest keyword.

wolfguard ane riders....welcome to the era of chaos terminator accursed weapons.

They're going to fade further down the totem pole until they get their codex/new models like new wolfguard termies etc. Then they will be broken again

Thunderwolf cavalry and Wulfen, it is surely end times. Russ will return and lay waste to the Chaos Gods of Games Workshop.

Ima take a primarch, lots of parimaris marines with special weapons. Wait the space wolves dont get any of that? Ok nvm ill take the wulfen with thunder hammers and frost axes instead.

Not really liking any of the space marines rules at all SW, BA, DA, etc. Happy there is a new edition but sad to see what they did to marines.

Not with wulfen hammers, that's for sure

This being how GW has treated the wolves... just wow Looks like another edition of the endless struggle. Entirely non competitive options Are wolves the new fists?

@Rothgar59

Жыл бұрын

The Fists are now just yellow Ultramarines, Gabriel Seth was right.

Wolf guard termi can't take lightning claw and storm shield anymore 😭

@rankcolour8780

Жыл бұрын

You can, it just classes as a power weapon instead.

@sarasuknutto

Жыл бұрын

@@rankcolour8780 I just got it. Both have same stat just don't have twin link. Thank.

I litrally just started my space wolves collection, this is very disappointing for a returning collector.

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully a future codex will fix. Collect with hope🙂👍

I just want to say, "Ragnar + 9 Bladeguard in a drop pod" That is all.

@Dagenham_Swish

Жыл бұрын

Awww that's filthy

I think the Wolves and the Death Guard have come off worse so far. Still, it’s early days, haven’t seen the points yet, and hopefully GW will listen and balance them out at the codex phase.

@madfat89

Жыл бұрын

I collect both, so no tournaments for me in foreseeble future. On the plus side second hand market will be more saturated w/ DG and SW models for some time.

So many units with 0 OC!!! Sure Murderfang is a monster but man so many units (anything Wulfen) can't hold an objective lmao!

@BeKindToBirds

11 ай бұрын

I would expect it with blood angels but with space wolves I would expect it to gain objective control by killing an enemy or something, a hero holding an objective is exactly space wolves, they aren't berserkers like angels, I don't get it

I really feel that GW don't actually give a damn about it's customers. Nicely printed data sheets that cost money with so many mistakes that need correcting with pen and marker and not even in use yet. It is ludicrous !! Space Wolves have been relegated to the bin. No thunder hammers, no advance and charge, reduced wounds, reduced strengths, reduced damage. It is no longer an effective melee army, has to stay at home and look after the kids !! Of course, typical GW, wait six months until no one is buying SW and it will be changed. Hundreds of hours assembly and painting wasted. AND Forge World models removed without notice !! My 20 odd hours spent kit bashing a FW resin Leviathan Dreadnaught into a SW hero, now a dust gatherer. GW doesn't care because we keep eating the rotten food they provide. I am going on a fasting diet !!!

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

😢😢🤕

@GrandAdmThrawn

Жыл бұрын

So true.

They’ve ruined space wolves

I told you...stay in 9th...😅❤

Its hard to to feel disappointed. Exection of fhe full herp hammer fell flat for me. Need to give the wolfgaurd and thunderwolves back there weapons. Herloom is junk. Also need to be able to start a battle with one saga of your choice complete Overall GW seems lost with the wolves. Go back to the days of comboned arms pack tactics or counter charge army wide. Given them all fight first or something. Hopefully the codex and new format will fix it.

As a long term SW player I cannot begin to describe how disappointing these Index rules are. When you then compare them to Rival SM factions such as BA it becomes even more puzzling at how bad SW are getting it.

Excuse me but, this is not a good job by GW. My wife is a graphic designer and she says that is not conceivable an error like the one they've made in the datasheet of the Venerable Dreaddy...on a global scale! They will correct it of course, they will build a Gallows Pole in Nottingham for the unfortunate graphic designer, but it's still a bad sign of haste...I like the Core Rules but the Indexes are very reductive and too poor about army customization... let's hope in the Codexes... meanwhile...stay in 9th😂😂😂❤🎉

@ikarian8318

Жыл бұрын

I take you can take an Assault Terminator squad to keep a Thunder Hammer unit? And the chance to take still non Primaris Apothecary is good (???)😮

@StrikingScorpion82

Жыл бұрын

It is usually the case that indexes and quick rules updates at the start of an edition have mistakes and issues🤔🤔

GW "devs" in 2023: hey guys, let's vanillafy the Space Wolves and to be extra sure let's cut their balls off. SW players will surely love that...... $%@#$%%^$#$@##$@ Just bring back the 5th edition codex with some minor changes that were brought in the 7th ed one (but not all of them).

The amount of mistakes this cars have is astonishing, i wonder what gws has been doing because theese are pretty obvious, i mean our character hit on 3+ with lighting claws but on 2+ with power fisst like wtf is going on hahahahha

First😂