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You had to mention Svetislav Pešić separately. His contribution to German basketball is immeasurable in my opinion.

The German Football Association (DFB) announced the dismissal of then coach Hansi Flick as German national football coach just as the German basketball team won the World Cup, overshadowing the basketball victory with this controversial timing, especially since they had originally planned to wait, but rushed due to a leak. I remember that this was a big mood killer, because the media focused much more on Flick's dismissal than on the basketball victory.

@brutongaster767

17 сағат бұрын

cant really blame the association tho, its more the leakers fault

I’m a German playing in the 3. League (proB) It’s crazy if I’m talking with a friend of mine playing soccer(football) in the 5. League and getting payed 3 times than me. We try to make the sport more and more popular but nobody cares 50% of my friends didn’t even know that we win championship

@fuhgettaboudit

14 күн бұрын

That's crazy man... Do Bayern fans care about basketball?? I'm asking because one of the smartest ways to make people care is by making basketball departments of already existing football clubs. Derbies like Real Madrid vs. Barcelona, Olympiacos vs. Panathinaikos, Crvena Zvezda vs. Partizan draw so much attention that they have created tons of basketball fans... In Greece, particularly every football team of the Big 5 has a basketball club, and their rivalries exist for about 100 years, so why not capitalize on that...

@igorjovovic3454

14 күн бұрын

one Bayern player said that more than half of the city does not know that they have a basketball team. ​@@fuhgettaboudit

@za_kevo6299

14 күн бұрын

​@@fuhgettabouditalot of them do actually, Uli Hoeneß the man that was the manager for the football team for years is a huge baseball fan, he put a lot of effort to make FC Bayern München Basketball a Household name in German basketball, they also get a new arena next season with around 12.000 people fitting in

@maikotter9945

14 күн бұрын

ein Beitrag des 4. Mai 2024 (der Karsamstag des Orthodoxen Christentumes) Moin! Alles Gute für die Zukunft! Welche ist deine Mannschaft? ° Die Hamburg Towers (Wilhelmsburg) sind mein, räumlich am dichtesten gelegenes, BBL Team. Welche Körperhöhe? ° ich: 182 cm Welche Armspannbreite? ... Weshalb werden, ein Teil der, Amateursportler überhaupt, für den Amateursport, bezahlt? ° Liebe = amore 2. Fubßall-Bundesliga der Herren; ein Derby in dem Volksparkstadion; an Freitag, 3. Mai 2024; ab 18 : 30 MESZ 1; Hamburger SV 0; FC Sankt Pauli "May the Force be with you!"

@fuhgettaboudit

14 күн бұрын

@@za_kevo6299 Good to know, I'm sure Bayern fans would prefer to beat Borussia Dortmund BC/Werder Bremen BC/Gladbach BC instead of Alba/Ülm/Bamberg etc. Big football clubs in Germany should create their basketball departments, which would lead to more fans engaging (Ultras usually support first). More fans equals increased viewership, equals bigger investments, equals increased salaries. With increased salaries, bigger names will come in Germany, and all that leads to more fans of basketball. Germany is a big market, just won the FIBA World Cup, had one of the best NBA players in history in Dirk Nowitzki, and has one of the best up and coming young talents in the NBA now in Franz Wagner. You HAVE to capitalize on that...

This current generation being inspired by Dirk Nowitski is great for their growth in the sport

I mean basketball is growing in germany the arena of the top bbl teams are full nearly every game and the younger people love to watch the sport

It's not only that basketball isn't the most popular sport in Germany it's not even the second or third most popular. It's unbelievable how quiet Germanys win was in the country itself and how quickly it was forgotten. Contrasted with Spains 22 eurobasket victory being huge in the country despite being as or even more football crazy than Germany but basketball at least being essentially the number 2 sport.

@clintstewart5545

14 күн бұрын

I don't think spanish people are more crazy about football Germans crowds are way better bundesliga 2 probably get more attendance that la liga games

@bnb6868

14 күн бұрын

@@clintstewart5545 cause all the big German clubs play in the second while all the big Spanish ones play in the first

@clintstewart5545

14 күн бұрын

@@bnb6868 that's excuses germany always has the highest attendances even 3 division matches have huge attendances and there are still big spanish clubs in lower divisions, some teams can't even fill their stadium while in la liga, Germans are number one over the spanish by far ...

@bnb6868

13 күн бұрын

@@clintstewart5545 all the big German clubs like Nürnberg, hertha, Schalke, FCK, HSV and other not as big but still somewhat big clubs play in the second division in Germany contrasted to the first division with all the plastic clubs (Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim, Leipzig) who have no fans or the small clubs (Heidenheim, Augsburg, Darmstadt) who have fan bases but not as big as those of the previously mentioned second division clubs. That's why the German second division has such a huge attendance. The Spanish second division on the other hand with few exceptions is made up of Clubs who have always been at best second division clubs while all the major clubs play in the first division

@clintstewart5545

13 күн бұрын

@@bnb6868 even leipzig gets full attendance or leverkusen etc , there is no comparison , bundesliga 3 probably has more fans than la liga ,

The success of the German men's national team actually started in 2021, just before Herbert era. Making it into the Olympic quarterfinals from the qualifiers without most star players was a notable achievement even if they didn't have to beat any really good teams.

Thanks for the love (from a German player and coach)!

@maikotter9945

14 күн бұрын

Welche ... Mannschaft; Ligenstufe; Staffel?

Good research on the video. Keep up the great work! Greetings from 🇩🇪

Basketball fighting for 2nd place with Handball and Ice Hockey is delusional imho. Handball is clearly number 2 and I would put Ice Hockey in front of Basketball popularity wise. A Statista survey taken between 2021 and 2023 has Basketball in 12th place behind obviously football, then skiing, track & field, handball, motorsports, tennis, boxing, swimming, cycling, ice hockey and horse riding

@1zebbe3

12 күн бұрын

That‘s what I was thinking too. Handball is much bigger. Many small towns don‘t even have a basketball club.

@pglanville

12 күн бұрын

Lol. Negative much?

@1zebbe3

11 күн бұрын

@@pglanville it‘s just the truth. Nothing negative here

@wurstbrot1772

5 күн бұрын

Noone in northern Germany is interessted in ice hockey. That is a very regional thing. But apart from that, I agree. It is interessting haow they seem focus on team sports only. I mean, even Ski Jumping is more popular than Basketball.

@pglanville

4 күн бұрын

@@wurstbrot1772 Ski jumping. Now you're ridiculous. That's a rich man's sport. it can't be popular at all.

Another big change was the implementation of farmteams. Young players could play against grown pro men slightly above College level (Pro A or Pro B) or if good enough in the BBL. That way coaches could have them play their respective development level and let them "grow"

8:10 the system implented 2010 i would say some of the older players didnt profit from it, while you can say that Hartenstein has his roots in the german youth system (Artland Dragons)

To give some more perspective of how small basketball is here compared to football. My hometown basketball club was playing in the bbl just a few years ago, but it was nothing more than a fun fact you told someone. Meanwhile our main football club is playing in the fourth division and you can hear the chants on matchday through the entire city, find stickers and graffitis everywhere etc.

7:20 I like how you added some footage of the gamewinner from the game Alba Berlin against San Antonio Spurs back from 2014. Despite just beeing a friendshipgame that game won by Alba felt somehow special to me as a kid

Plz make these type of videos more often. I throughly enjoy them

Good video as always!

Great Video!

great video! see you in berlin!

The rise of German basketball began in mid 80's with German players that played in NCAA and some made it to be NBA star, like Schrempf. Euro in 1993 was expected to have Lithuanians, but they lost qualification game against Belarus (Daineko destroyed them).

An aspect that's easy to overlook is the effort the basketball federation here in GER has made to attract and keep children to the sport, with dedicated rulesets and coaching initiatives for under-12 and below (borrowed largely from Spain, or so I've been told). These are kids which will be our future federal youth league, BBL, Euroleague and NBA players - but also coaches, functionaries, referees, organizers, Basketball-affiliated health professionals, and of course spectators. It'll be interesting to see where all this goes long-term.

dope vid Hartenstein actually played for a german BBL's youth team (Artland Dragons Quakenbrück)

Hartenstein actually also played in the BBL for Quakenbrück before making the move to Kaunas

We really need to use their example in our non-existent development system 😢. Amazing video! Keep up the good work! Greetings from Athens!🇬🇷

Hartenstein played in the youth bbl with the Artland Dragons and in the men's 2nd league. Then he went to Lithuania

Franz Wagner 🇩🇪 Future NBA champion for the Orlando Magic 💫 🪄 🎩

@Meazzy2k

13 күн бұрын

fakten fakten fakten

Thank you for this vid! Any draft junkies gotta keep an eye out for German players

Just for a bit more perspective: considering the big team sports in Germany basketball is only third or even fourth place by several accounts. For example the number of active (amateur & youth) players is much bigger in handball than in basketball. Handball is also where the club teams are world class while German 🏀 clubs have no chance to (ever?) win the Euroleague. In terms of spectator attendance ice hockey is the number 2 behind football

@tinobommelino3376

10 күн бұрын

I would put it that way: Inthe south of Germany Basketball is nr. 3 behind football and ice hockey. In the north it ist 3rd behind football and handball. Here in Freiburg or Munich nobody cares about handball. And so does nobody care about ice hockey in most of northern Germany. The centre might be devided. Interests are varying from region to region.

@gregorkalinkat7657

10 күн бұрын

@@tinobommelino3376 handball is really widespread in Germany, I was explicitly referring in my comment to the amateur player level. You can also check the numbers, for DHB it is roughly three times the number of club members nationwide compared to Basketball. Historically handball also used to be THE team sport for small villages who were not big enough to have competitive 15-18 player roster for football, which is one of the reasons why the Bundesliga was dominated by clubs from small cities and rural areas for many decades (Gummersbach, Göppingen, Großwallstadt etc), and many of those were/are from the South (btw the women's team from Bietigheim near Stuttgart just made it to the final four in Europe while the men's ice hockey team from Bremerhaven played the playoff finals)

@tinobommelino3376

10 күн бұрын

@@gregorkalinkat7657 There certainly are some „handball islands“ also in the south. Just as there are ice hockey teams in the north. But none of them get the widespread recognition as the Adler Mannheim or the red bull München do. Or even the Nürnberg ice tigers. In the south handball has always stayed a local phenomenon. In opposition to Gummersbach or Großwallstadt (for us that’s way up north🤣). Basketball unfortunately stays behind both. Only differing from north to south. But I wouldn’t put handball in Bietigheim in a popularity position ahead of Ratiopharm Ulm or Ludwigsburg, Bayern München Basketball or Bamberg.

Even though there are only 250,000 kids playing basketball, ( versus millions playing football) Germany has a large enough population that in the next 20 years or so, a certain # of kids with strong athleticism who start out playing football, will eventually switch to pursuing basketball when they, in their teenage years, grow just too tall to be super effective on the football field. This has already been shown in the NBA as several of the non-American super stars started off their basketball pursuits in their mid- teens after the grew just too tall to reasonably expect to star at football.

i knew germans would cook

thx so much for this video! Yeah, Basketball and all other sports in general have to develop in different areas to archieve, what football has archieved! Still basketball is growing and if the german BBL teams wouldnt have s*cked in the CL, hype would be bigger! Still the systematic changes by likes of Pesic, Herbert and many more mark the system and offer great opportunities for future growth

Do the same video with Italy and its decline plz!

@gabepizza

13 күн бұрын

Italy's decline? plz. They still made the quarter-finals. When have they ever been great? One silver medal in the 2004 Olympics? II know they're not a European team but if you want to talk about decline mention Argentina. Gold in the 2004 Olympics, silver in the 2002 & 2019 World Cup and now not even able to qualify for the 2023 World Cup or the qualifying tournament of the 2024 Olympics

Tristan Da Silva will get drafted in the first round this year and is german.

@Smido83

11 күн бұрын

Yeah, he will hopefully be a future constant on the roster. That being said, we could really need some future guard depth.

I'm a 25 year old german and never had a sport that I enjoed watching till I saw the semi and than the final of last years World Cup. I think it would help if it would be easyer to watch NBA at the moment it is kind of confusing which streaming plattform you have to follow to watch the game you want to and when

I'm a 40 year old German and in spite of still enjoying watching football games, I really hate how football centric we have become. This hasn't always been the case though. Back when I was a kid, in the 90ies there always used to be a "second sport" that - at least for a time - was just as big as football for a while in terms of mdeia coverage and public interest. People would often tie their attention for a specific sport to a successful individual like Boris Beker and Steffi Graf in Tennis, Michael Schuhmacher in Formula 1, Jan Ulrich in Cycling, Sven Hannavald in Ski Junping and last but not least Dirk Nowitzki in Basketball. In Dirks hometown which coincidentely happens to be my own hometown, there were like hundreds of thousands who would watch and celebrate the Mavs... but that's how it used to be. Things have changed. When Zverev won gold in the olympics, nobody cared, when Germany won the FiBA world cup - nobody cared. Most Germans can't even name one player from the team who did it. Maybe the internet is to blame - there is no common puclic anymore. Maybe rooting for a sportsperson just because of their nationality deterrs those who opose the German nationalist party (AfD) while those voting for that party don't like sports people for their often mix ethnic heritage or them being a face in an anti racism/ anti sexism campaign.

To demonstrate how much football dominantes every other sport in Germany: People in Germany didn’t even know that Dirk Nowitzki won a MVP in 2007 and became a NBA champion in 2011. You could call yourself lucky if a German news show would actually report on these happenings. The show would rather report on a football game in the second division

Omg SSV Ulm Mentioned

The flood of ads on everything imagineable really puts me off watching German BB. Even the leagues name are sold to ads, not to mention all jerseys, courts and even team names.

it was definitely dirk who brought the sport to germany. the result of his games were always in the newspaper or in the radio

why post this midgame

First comment 😁❤️ love your work

I'm sorry but what he said about people watching the semis was not true. To this day I'm spreading awareness of that gane and that moment but at best some maybe heard about it. Just to make it clear I was in Leipzig a pretty big City and there was no location to watch the game, not even the Sportsbars were showing it. The Game wasn't on television (the year before the even the quarterfinal was) and on the day of the finals I was in Braunschweig (Schröders and Theis home City) no attention to it nowhere.

9:25 i know exactly where this school is

First basketball,next the world

Damn he did Preußen Münster dirty

Track and field, handball, tennis and hockey are all more popular than basketball in germany.

Because of Franz Wagner 🏀🔥🙌

DOUITSU NO BASKE SEKAI-ICHI!!! - Stroheim

As some already mentioned below, basketball is VERY FAR from being mainstream . The biggest advantage there is that many foreigners are coming and contributing with their knowledge and/or skills especially from former Yugo countries, Russia and America .But still this sport is not popular at all to mainstream fans unlike football. Even Dirk himself is more appreciated in US than in Germany as his number was first retired in Dallas and several years later in Germany. Gordi Herbert imo changed so much stuff and is the mastermind behind all those successes. Germans should retain him as he made playing for Germany cool which before his tenure wasnt exactly the case with their previous coach.

6+6 only works when you have the players developing below. Great Britain has been terrible for years and opening up player pathways just lowers the quality of the league.

like Jokic Giannis and Luka said. Scoring in Europe is harder than in the NBA

1:15 The german basketball league has only the 6th highest viewership after handball, icehockey and the top 3 football flights. So it would be: Football A whole lotta nothing Ice Hockey Handball Basketball So he got it right that its in 4th

In fact germany has many sports out of football, justz the media had to wake up, to show them more, cause football = always people who watch it (Winter)Biathlon, Ice-Hockey,Ski-Jumping, (Summer/Indoor)Handball, Basketball, Cycling,Formula 1,Rallye Any other Motorsport on a Table-Tennis, American Football, Swimming, any Olympic Sport at Olympia , and all is on free TV (Private)Hiking, Cycling,Running, Swimming, Table Tennis, Climbing, Fitness Studio...and 100 more

BBL Drizzy

Ah yes the German BBL

BBL DRIZZZZZZZZZZY!

Lucky more than anything

Basketball is 4 - 6 The popularity ranking in Germany is Football Handball Motorsports And I can’t split hockey cycling and baskbetball

American Football is 2nd popular Sport in Germany but BB and HB fans won't like it. 😂

W vid

Don't forget to mention team USA had a weak ass line up the only 2 all stars were Jalen Brunson and Anthony Edwards and even with this line up team USA almost won 87 - 88. I can't wait to watch team USA crush every other team at the Olympics.

Micić Vukčević Jokić Jović Bogdanović Marjanović Pokuševski Serbia has 7 players.

@boza5684

14 күн бұрын

Izgleda da Vukčevića ne ubrajaju kao naŠeg jer nije igrao za reprezentaciju a ima joŠ 3-4 državljanstva.

@fritzfischer3648

13 күн бұрын

Vukcevic did not play so far though.

@bekiigic

13 күн бұрын

@@fritzfischer3648 In NBA or for Serbian NT? He did play in NBA, for Serbia he wasn't allowed until he turned 21 few months ago but he will.

@fritzfischer3648

13 күн бұрын

@@bekiigic ah ok

Sorry, you cannot talk about the rise of German basketball without mentioning the women. 6th place at the 2023 Euro, first time Olympics in 2024, lot of players in foreign leagues such as the Sabally sisters in WNBA, Leonie Fiebich also heading to WNBA after 2x Spanish League MVP. Alba Berlin (women!) winning the national championship in front of record crowd (and the men's team in the stands).

@SN8808

14 күн бұрын

He didn’t talk about Womens‘ Basketball, though.

@unknownunknown-tk8qt

14 күн бұрын

The focus is on the men's national team's path to success. Stop with that irrelevant shit.

That tournament was just an incredible miraculous ride, which might not be repeated too soon. Especially the semifinal against the United States. That's the best match of basketball I've ever witnessed on TV. It felt like the ultimate boss fight and every possession, every shot, every defensive stop mattered. It woke up the sleeping giant to send America's best players to the Olympics. And credits to Lithuania for beating the U.S. too.

@sagatlike3393

12 күн бұрын

Aren't many US player not eligible to play in the olympics due its rules?

@giuseppemaggio5894

12 күн бұрын

Exactly. People need to understand that the difference between winning and not winning a medal at a FIBA tournament is actually extremely slim. Nowadays the gap between the top 8-10 national teams in the world is extremely small. If you play the same game 3 different times in 3 different days between 2 national teams, you'll probably get 3 different results. Take my home country Italy as an example: we haven't won a FIBA medal in quite a lot of years, yet Serbia has lost every single game against us in like the past 4 years and at the 2021 Olympics we whooped Germany by 10 points despite playing terribly in the first half of the game. That just goes to show how much a single game can change everything and how different each team can perform day by day. FIBA tournaments are heavily related to luck because it all happens within a couple of weeks. Often the best teams don't even win a medal: Spain France USA or Australia at the 2023 WC, for example. Haters are gonna hate but it's a fact that they are among the best teams, yet they won no medal that year.

@nnnp634

11 күн бұрын

​@@sagatlike3393What rules? Once upon a time NBA players couldn't play, but that's not the case anymore. There is U23 restriction in football, but not in basketball

@nnnp634

11 күн бұрын

Germany was already the best team in Eurobasket, just didn't have the mentality to beat Spain. I would even argue that they still struggled mentaly letting Latvia, Serbia and especially US come close, but they did persevere this time. I'm not going to say I was going to bet my house on Germany against the US, but it wasn't miracle at all just slightly unexpected or maybe even expected given that US lost to Lithuania which hasn't had a notable success since 2015, and even struggled with Montenegro (tied at half time)

@sagatlike3393

11 күн бұрын

@@nnnp634 fair nuff. I thought it applied to basket too.

i am for germany and i don't care for football, but to be honest i already forgot about the fact that germany won the world cup 🤔🤔

@Meazzy2k

13 күн бұрын

traurig, dass das so schnell verblasst. mir geht es ähnlich

Now I feel like we tend to overrate them and Schroeder, I predict a fail at the Olympics

@Karma_will_get_you_for_that

14 күн бұрын

You cannot overrate world champions. 8:0! End of story. 😎 You cannot take this away as much as you wanna. But be careful, Karma might get you for that. 🤭

@boza5684

14 күн бұрын

Similar as France at Filipins.But they have great team buy names,plus Maxi Kleber,Hartenstain...

@davinnicode

13 күн бұрын

@@boza5684Kleber and Hartenstein will more than likely not play in the Olympics

To be fair, basketball isn't the most popular sport in the US either. American football is significantly more popular than all other sports combined, followed by MLB, then NBA. A 2023 survey among adults asking what their favorite sport was showed these results: 1. Fooball - 52% 2. Baseball - 27% 3. Basketball - 8% 4. Soccer - 3% 5. Auto Racing - 3% 6. Hockey - 1% 7. Other - 2% But even though only 8% chose basketball as their favorite sport, there's enough overlap of sports fans & the population is large enough, that you still get a large pool of great athletes.

@matiasfraire437

13 күн бұрын

Yes this is clearly among adults because the new generation likes basketball way more than baseball

@davinnicode

13 күн бұрын

But the basketball infrastructure is second to none compared to the rest of the world.

Weird that you label Isaiah Hartestain as German, and his father is american nationalized german only cuz he played basketball there. But when it comes to Karl Towns (whose mother was born and raised in the Dominican Republic) you guys label him as an American nationalized player.

@fritzfischer3648

13 күн бұрын

Florian Hartenstein, Isaiahs father, has a german mother (Hartenstein is the most German name you can think of and means "hard stone", he played like one too, btw.) He was born in Germany and learned the game in Germany. He played his whole professional career in Germany, and coached the team of Quakenbrück, where his son learned the game too.

@trixstar533

13 күн бұрын

have you herd from a man called joel embiid once players get to choose what they what to be labeld

@matiasfraire437

13 күн бұрын

Because hartenstein grew up in Germany and Towns in the US it’s simple

Because the opponents were bad. Especially Team USA.

Haha BBL

@unknownunknown-tk8qt

14 күн бұрын

They really should change the name.

@trixstar533

13 күн бұрын

i always think about the bba from the original beyblade series

In Germany we say: If you're too big for or untalented at Football, you'll become a Basketball player.

@biggdig6669

10 күн бұрын

das hat noch nie irgendjemand gesagt

@young_diogenes

10 күн бұрын

@@biggdig6669 In meinem Umfeld war das allgemeingültig.

@young_diogenes

10 күн бұрын

@@biggdig6669 Alle deutlich über 1,90 spielen hobbymässig Basketball und alle anderen ziehen Fußball vor.

Hahahahah

German basketball has no physicality

@user-pz7tq5ym1k

14 күн бұрын

rofl

@tayo6882

14 күн бұрын

Right. Tell that to Hartenstein or Mo Wagner.

@fbiopenup6534

14 күн бұрын

@@tayo6882 Theis too

I usually like your videos, but this one is much too superficial. First of all, like many other comments already mentioned, basketball is not even close to being the number 2 sport in Germany. Second, German players are late bloomers because the education is not nearly as good as you describe. They only develop once they have been professionels for several years and have gained some experience. Also, almost all of the good players on the national team started developing according to their potential once they left Germany (Wagner brothers, Voigtmann, Lo, Obst, Bonga, Giffey; Kleber, Pleiß and Hartenstein too, but they did not play the tournaments). The talent pool is solid and that is why good players keep coming from Germany, but these results and the success is much more random than you portray it to be

Germany national team basketball players are unironically more white than national team football players

I don’t know who that Reporter was but Neither Handball nö basketball are number 2, actual number 2 is American football

@tinobommelino3376

10 күн бұрын

Oh, ok. There are less than 40000 avtive american football players in GER at the moment. And many of them are players from abroad. So it would be ranked at the same level as faustball. A sport you probably don´t even know. So if you are a big american footbal fan, please don´t assume, everybody else is, too.

How none germans* and NBA made them good.

USA would've beat them with an actual roster 🤷‍♂ Its USA and then everyone else is interchangeable depending on the year haha

Hundred millions people live there, still they import some players from abroad. I am more pleasantly surprised with a small countries like Lithuania, Slovenia or Montenegro to be honest. Tell me one worthy of mention German new era player?

@fritzfischer3648

13 күн бұрын

Import? Who are you thinking of? German new era player ... I would say Franz Wagner has All-Star potential.

@nnnp634

11 күн бұрын

I could tell you whom Slovenia and Montenegro imported, but whom did Germany import?

A new hope in European basketball. I also know that many young German players study in USA so they learn both styles. In German league many players have the chance to blossom since they have the ability to develop their game. They have my respect 🫡.

Tall people need a sport too and its basketball

@TheAdrian229

13 күн бұрын

Yeah volleyball is pretty set in stone In Europe. French Italians and Poles are just too dominating, to try and squeeze into it. But Basketball is popular mostly in countries that combined doesn't have half of German population

@nnnp634

11 күн бұрын

There are quite a few sports for tall people - basketball (which is why former Yugoslavia, Baltic and Germany are great), handball (which is why Scandinavia, Germany and Croatia in the past are great), water polo (again former Yugoslavia). For some reason Spain and Italy are also great in most of these, so it's not just about the height, but correlation exists