The crux of this hand is summed up at 10:02. Rewatch that explanation for why this river play makes more sense if the villian had used the same bet or smaller on turn

@conephompany

2 ай бұрын

this rvr play is incorrect. hero turns hand face up, folds out everything worse, denies villain chance to bluff with missed diamonds. it's all bad

@sethshapiro5973

2 ай бұрын

It’s not folding out anything worse, that’s crazy. QT is calling, and so is KQ usually, and possibly even QJ or AT because hero’s jam looks really bluffy because the board is so draw heavy, and they all missed.

@conephompany

2 ай бұрын

@@sethshapiro5973 nothing about the jam looks 'bluffy'. It looks exactly like what it is, a for-no-reason scared over pair that found a comfortable river to completely misplay. I don't mean to be harsh, but if he's going to play it passively as a check call, for pot control or a legit concern of 44, not qt, then the river must be followed thru with a check as well. If you spaz out with a donk jam it's the fishiest trap bc you give away the trap. You don't let your opponent walk into it. There is no argument here, really. And you are dreaming if you think any q pays.

I absolutely love Barts content. Very few pros display his humility and yet still get the message out well enough to be educational. I never watch his videos and learn nothing! Thanks again Bart 📹♥️

In my experience, at the low stakes, you will more often see a pre-flop limp call with a small pocket pair them with unpaired high cards. I think it comes down to the set mining idea. Mini players holding small pocket pairs are perfectly fine to call a raise and try to hit the set. But they don’t want to be 3 bet.

The crux of this hand is summed up at 10:02. Rewatch that explanation for why this river play makes more sense if the villian had used the same bet or smaller on turn

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

could V have AQ/KQ as played turn?

thanks Bart! This is valuable information for players like me that are playing in low stakes against limpers/call stations.

This hand is a perfect illustration of weaker players limping in the HJ with what is im assuming a very large range, hitting huge and betting big or getting paid off. In my experience, players like this dont c/r hardly ever with draws unless its a super combo draw, as they just want to keep the pot smaller until they hit, and then they put the money in. Im not suggesting that AA is a check/fold on river especially with that runout, but with weaker players who limp HJ like this, and double barrel, its a sigh tank check call. These players will mainly c/b on the river if they have missed their draws, and bet heavily if they have it. Villain can also have QT, and sometimes AQ. tough river spot.

I really love the nuance and discernment.

Yup, that sounds right! He limped called, and then XR flop and bets turn. That's how I would play my sets. Sucks for AA

@fireinfireout

2 ай бұрын

You do a lot of limp calling? You may want to sign up on Bart's Crush Live Poker site!

@kezman82a

2 ай бұрын

Thanks! That why I play my bluffs that way and always gets folds 🥳 probably because of all you guys playing your sets like that.

@MiguelRRT

2 ай бұрын

@@kezman82a I guess so Crusher 🤣🤣🤣

@Pokerfarhang

Ай бұрын

​@@kezman82a which hands do you choose to play like this as a bluff? KJd J9d ? Do you limp call ?

Love your new hand graphics; it is much easier to follow along.

@fireinfireout

2 ай бұрын

These aren't new at all...are you confusing this with the live call in?

He made correct river shove. If he checks and the guy fires all in he is calling off anyhow and losing. This was best not to let AQ, KQ etc from getting away with a check back. Some hands your just going to run into a cooler.

@danbreilin9169

2 ай бұрын

Those hands, AQ KQ, raise pre flop they should be heavily discounted from villains range

@MyChannel439

2 ай бұрын

@@danbreilin9169 Some people try and get tricky though. You cannot call the turn if your folding to an appearant perfect card for you on the river. Broadway cards are bad, a diamond is bad for you so WTF are you doing calling turn if those all miss and u get an apparant perfect villian counterfeit card in your favor??? Lol

@welcometoukraine3839

2 ай бұрын

Shoving does not allow KJ J9 and all the diamond draws to bluff the river. AQ and KQ can still bet for value, so check is better option as hero’s hand does not block any of villain bluffs

@Brazz27

2 ай бұрын

@@MyChannel439That thought process about "not calling the turn if youre gonna fold the river anyway" is super flawed. You get more information on each street and should use all of it. The ranges change with the actions on the turn and after the river action. Its a super common flaw but still, I think if you want to improve, you should take that out of your brain. Its totally ok to call a turn bet because youre not sure yet if youre beat or not, and then fold the river because you added new arguments to your reflexion.

@danbreilin9169

2 ай бұрын

@@Brazz27 Bart calls what you're talking about 5th Street Chicken... call the turn as if you will call river but when villain bets again that's new information and you can now weigh the option to fold. I think it's more relevant when the river card doesn't change things but I could be wrong. And whoever said I must not play small stakes I have over 3000 hours logged in my bankroll tracker app winning over 10 bb per hour at 1-2 and 1-3. Bart even says he could be more on board with the river bet if villain bet smaller on the turn so he's not crazy about the bet either.

I don't see anyone limping pre and then raising flop with just a queen (not even raising flop with nutflushdraw). The passive limp-caller is not the type to do that. So either QT or 44 and sometimes even a passively limped TT. (i know TT should raise pre but some players limp TT and even JJ pre lol)

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

in small stakes they often tend to limp with AQ, KQ, AJ, (If you haven't seen it, does not mean it does not exist).

@UberFubar75

2 ай бұрын

I have limped with TT and JJ. Even limped with higher pairs on rare occasions, depending on the opponents of course. If opponents give me clearly leaked signals that they don't like their hand, I will extract the max chips I possibly can!! I think where a lot of people go wrong generally, is follow the betting guidelines like doctrine. If someone doesn't, or won't get the premise, that poker is about reading the opponents as well as the cards and betting strategy then they probably shouldn't be at the table!! 😁😆 especially if they don't watch Bart's vids lol 🤣 you make a valid point though.

@AlexXanderMarketing

Ай бұрын

Exactly. 10/10 limps all the time in small stakes.

If he can have QT he can also have KJ ♦️ and tons of missed draws that HAVE to bluff river because they have no show down value. I think there’s more combos of bluffs in his range since he limped from the hijack as opposed to value hands. He only has Q10 and 44 for value and there are tons of bluff combos. For that reason I like a check call on the River instead of the lead.

@johnf1772

2 ай бұрын

Perhaps, but they won't necessarily bluff...they may give up - the bet is barely half the pot - you're calling the bluff A LOT...and he'll know that so won't bet nearly as often as you think....AND they'll be happy to show down QT. For most of those draws villain likely gladly takes the free card on the turn, most of the time. You would really hate it if you checked and he checked behind with QT. If you think villain always calls QT but never bets it, you need to lead. 13 combos call you and you beat 9 of them.

@nathanielveimau303

2 ай бұрын

At bay101, you aren't going to find many people that will do this with their bluffs. Players are fairly straight forward.

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

_there’s more combos of bluffs in his range since he limped from the hijack as opposed to value hands. He only has Q10 and 44 for value and there are tons of bluff combos_ So: why have you called his flop bet?? Even worse: called turn bet?

@dan22482

2 ай бұрын

In theory yes, but people who limp call pre flop are generally not the type to play draws strongly.

@conephompany

2 ай бұрын

@@nathanielveimau303 that is a straightforward bluff

The jam is great bc opponent calls any Q bc every draw missed so it looks like hero is bluffing a lot.

@sinatra222

Ай бұрын

Yep, and when villian has 44 or 5x of diamonds you're losing your stack anyway (whether you check or bet), so there is no downside to betting it yourself.

Bart is a smart guy. I would not have been surprised to see QT for two-pair that got counterfeited, or a draw raising the flop as a semi-bluff, or the pocket fours.

@UberFubar75

2 ай бұрын

May seem a stupid question, but what's meant by "counterfeit" in poker lingo? 😞

@gootery

2 ай бұрын

@@UberFubar75 QT was a 2 pair on the flop but when the last 2 cards paired any queen or pair becomes a 2 pair

If the V is an OMC type, should we fold on turn?

Good stuff. I love hands where the caller is solid like this guy. Question Bart: What sort of threshold do you consider for the "same bet" read on the turn. For example, you mentioned 115 or smaller, but suppose villain bets like 120 or 125, would you consider this "same bet" ? I personally would, but I'd like to hear what sort of thresholds you consider for this. In my mind, after thinking about it for a few, I think something like within 10% of the bet or something like that makes sense, but maybe not.

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

solid? HeOne who played all streets horribly?

@Gos1234567

2 ай бұрын

@@pot_kivach160he played ok till the river but then his brain exploded

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

@@Gos1234567 1) why calling flop is ok? 2) Why calling turn is ok?

@Gos1234567

2 ай бұрын

@@pot_kivach160 1) can’t see how 3 betting black aces on that board is good,what are you trying to achieve ? 2) actually I can see jamming turn as a good thing as too many horrible river cards and it can fold out draws . I think Bart should’ve brought that up

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

@@Gos1234567 #1) I'm still looking for the answer to this one. My approach here is coming from a different poker concept (school, if you want to put it this way). Calling flop raise is road to troubles. Actually: as soon as you called, you're already in troubles; it's just you're not aware of it! So: I either 3-bet or fold. The decision comes from hand reading, which comes from hand context elements, of which the opponent's profile is one. A) If I read I'm beat, and a) have no pot odds to improve, b) nor bluffing equity - then I fold and never look back. This cuz, it's a winning strategy (on the long run). B) If I read V full of **it...then, I'd 3-bet without any hesitation. Make him pay for the ride he's jumping on without my approval or disembark from MY ship! I'm not gonna let him catch a free ride, and later become so powerful and throw me off board to the sharks! Hoping this will do. If you have further questions, welcome to ask. Cheers!

Yeah bart is the man, I would not want to ever sit across from him at a poker table that's for sure. If I was forced to I would avoid getting in pots with him at all costs.

$7 drop is beyond ridiculous! Nobody is beating the low stakes games!

@IbeatGTO

2 ай бұрын

I play the $1/3 game with 5% rake, $40 cap and still make over $30/hr. And my hourly is over $30 in EVERY casino I ever played in. This includes California and Nevada.

This was std with those stacks and nothing hero could do. You'd have to have a solid read on villain to find a fold here. Doyle said in general you'll win small pots and lose big ones with Big pairs. Sucks but true.

i might consider check shoving the turn to charge his draws, and his KQ,QJ is not folding anyways.

@Brazz27

2 ай бұрын

Not sure why we would assume he's not folding naked top pairs there.

@Gos1234567

2 ай бұрын

@@Brazz27can’t as too Many draws there

@Gos1234567

2 ай бұрын

Yea this might be then best option as there are so many horrible river cards. Calling turn means you have to call a brick with so many possible bluffs out there, So if losing already you end up down the same amount either way whereas shoving denies his flushes a chance

Sounds like we’re not sure if he would have QX betting turn. If that’s the case we can give him partials. Give him 6 combos of KQ, QJ and Q9 + 9 of QT that’s 15 combos that are not folding vs 3 combos of 4 plus 3 of 5Xdd

@Dylan-vm4gl

2 ай бұрын

Are we ever folding river? Because there’s also that math to consider. If we check and he jams and we always fold because he never jams QT or bluffs than might be more profitable to check fold than to lead

Does limper ever check raise less than two pair on flop? He never limps KJs, doubt J9s. Highly doubt he’s on draw

@JeffreyHaefner

2 ай бұрын

Yep… limper has 44. Why would a “passive limper” raise our flop bet if he limped in w QJ/QK? Honestly I exploit fold on flop. He’s legit never bluffing here. Late limps r ALWAYS small pair or weak suited connector 56s 67s 78s…

@Shibashibawoof

2 ай бұрын

Yup, why I thought 4s the whole way.

@ThePatriots010304

18 күн бұрын

Yes, the limper does check raise the flop with K,Q or Q,J as Bart explained. He'd be trying to figure out if his Q is any good. Don't forget that these stakes are equivalent to online 5NL and 10NL, so people are going to do a lot of limping with a wide range of hands and betting and raising a lot of top pairs and pairs when the community cards come.

So gross knowing that’s it’s ALWAYS pocket 4’s or pocket 10’s…

I could not really find the issue with this hand. Poker is a game of both skill & luck. Hero got unlucky. It seems as though the river is the major discussion point, but I was puzzled that it was not fully discussed. The question of whether to lead or check is discussed, but that ignores the scenario of hero checks & villain jams. Are we folding? If we are, then jamming was bad. Also, what do we think of villain? Does he have ALL QT's? Or only suited QT's? For me, the major lesson should have been that hero cannot check-call. He must check-fold or lead jam.

@ThePatriots010304

18 күн бұрын

You're never check folding the river after calling the turn especially when the river pairs 5's. If you're calling the turn on an offsuit 5 and check folding the river on another offsuit 5, then that's a pretty big leak in your game.

small stakes when you conitune on the flop and are raised you are beat here most of the time 95%+

I cant see this turning out any different, if he checks and the guy jams are you folding??? If he bets $200 are you folding??? If you bet $200 and he puts you all in are you folding??? Im just not folding on this run out, if the board doesnt pair i think you can fold because there are so many Q10 combos out there but its the same reason you cant fold now

a drop means they take 7 bucks from every pot?

@jamespohl-md2eq

2 ай бұрын

Yes

The raise at $115 at these low stakes automatically told me pocket 4s

How is the first pot $50 on flop? If he raised to $25 and a hj called $25 we still have a big blind?

Why not check and let him keep bluffing, keep the bluffs in. Hero jam on river essentially turns his over pair face up and villain would fold QJ and probably QT if he can hand read

@charlesnewborn3760

2 ай бұрын

Hey Bart, does Joe use a metal back scratcher to put chips in the pot? Theres a guy like that at Capitol casino who plays a lot of Omaha

@stuartpenwarden253

2 ай бұрын

Why couldn't hero have a missed draw he's bluffing which gets paid off by Q10 and KQ, QJ. Sure sometimes they have the boat.

TBH, I'm going broke here too. Unless I can somehow hero fold the flop, which is a stretch

Max rake in Ontario is $15 with no comps other then free soda and coffee 🙄

Nine combos of QT, three of 44 and then A5dd. All 13 combos call that bet...All 13 likely get to the river this way. Unless villain only gets to the flop with QTs, the river bet is a winner in the long run...even if you add TT to the mix. If villain somehow has AQ/KQ/QJ even better, but you don't need it.

@conephompany

2 ай бұрын

Q is never calling a donk jam when the bottom card pairs. The jam is bad

If I had Aces with the Ace of Diamonds, I would definitely shove the river. But not having the Ace of Diamonds unblocks the Ace high flush draws that might bluff the river. I think Bart focused too much on Q-10 and not enough on Ace-X of diamonds.

@brandontaylor2325

2 ай бұрын

What suited aces does the villian have? They would all be raised preflop more than likely.

I'd jam on his turn bet

If they bet a 5 multiple with 2 even stacks and the extra 5 on top in the middle.... FOLD

red rock casino is now 6 & 2 omg..

haha ... $7 ... try the games in Toronto. Elements Brantford scopes up to 10% FIFTEEN DOLLARS plus a dollar for bad beat and woodbine scopes up to 10% of TWENTY DOLLARS plus a dollar for bad beat. It is sickening. for those in the know, 15 years ago, Brantford was a hold em limit only room, running 12-14 tables with long lists. About 5-7 years ago, they added no-limit, essentially killing the room. Now, any non Fri/Sat, you are lucky to get 4 tables unless the badbeat is large (currently tax free $275,000). To top it off, you have to pay FOR EVERYTHING and do not get any poker room comps.

I’m folding turn

Maybe even A5 diamonds would go through my mind

No way hero gets away with these stack sizes

Aces is just a pair Bob

Think you can fold AA on turn. If you think he checks drawing hands on the turn and bets value, seems like a fold

@saikgamingproductions

2 ай бұрын

quit poker

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

100%!

Raise the turn All in river

ReBuy!

Only lose to trips

It's a FOLD on the flop PERIOD! Players do not limp AQ/KQ and raise the flop when hitting TP. Players (especially recreational) are NOT (95% of the time) playing there draws aggressiv. This is just an excuse for every player who cannot fold TP or better on the flop. Limping pre is VERY passive and when a very passive player turns agressive it is ALWAYS a monster!!! Just think about all these OMCs. Turning from passive to agressive is one of the biggest and most obvious tells in poker. Think about every raise you got on the flop and how many times your opponent had a draw and how many times did he show 2pair or better! Folding to EVERY raise on the flop might be exploitative in the long run but it is definitely +EV.

no idea why u guys r so hung up on QT. qto, j9s are not typically limped late by pros or amateurs plays like fd or 44 all day, which calls for a check OTR. jamming a 5 turns your hand face up and no Q or QT is calling, and u don't give flush draw chance to bluff at it personally i'd rather play back OTF, see where i am rather than have my opponent take me for three streets OOP starting on a wet flop, no ty

I think bart focused too hard on QT combos

@Van_Behlen

2 ай бұрын

Thats because there are 9 combos QT, and 3 combos of 44, and that is basically the entirety of villains value range, and we beat everything else. Villain wont have QQ and will basically never have TT (So maybe under 1 combo combined of those two) , and maaaybe some x5dd there on the river. If you dont focus on QT, what else is there to think about? Remember, we beatr EVERYTHING else, the bluffs, the draws etc.

You literally only lose to 44 and some 10 10. Easy shove river.

@chungusgaming5914

2 ай бұрын

Agreed! Most players are not folding QT in that spot. I like the Jam for max value. It looks a little bluffy as well.

@pot_kivach160

2 ай бұрын

yeah?? Why did you get to river without fishing rod and bait?

This one is trying to make something out of nothing. How many guys are betting 115 and then 105 or 100 on the turn ? With the board pairing on the river and the SPR all the money is just getting in on this one no matter what unless villain is OMC. Even if hero checks river he’s still making a crying call.

villian on q10 nope a dummy hand. he wants pkt pair to called 25 out of position. villian raise is a big signal. get off the hand.

@timothynguyen4446

2 ай бұрын

Villain is in position, he has a bajillion Qx here.

@gabrielrockman

2 ай бұрын

The villain could also flop open ended with KJ or J9, or flop a diamond draw. Especially since the hero doesn't have the Ace of Diamonds.

@2wheelman

2 ай бұрын

@@gabrielrockman 3-5 game charge more $35 pre flop fishy hands wont call j9 kj

@gabrielrockman

2 ай бұрын

@@2wheelman If Q10 is a possible hand given preflop action, then KJ and J9 are also possible hands.

Its friendly stakes, who cares