There’s an alternate universe where Professor Boris Johnson is sat in his Oxford office, wearing tweed, offering a student help with their dissertation on the development of Athenian democracy

@cosmicwakes6443

4 жыл бұрын

Fake Name *is seated.

@drtg101we7

3 жыл бұрын

@@cosmicwakes6443 You, in turn, are living in that alternate universe, aren't you?

@jackcameron4675

3 жыл бұрын

I think he would be much happier and the world would be a better place

@userwheretogo

3 жыл бұрын

@@jackcameron4675 are u related to David Cameron

@jackcameron4675

3 жыл бұрын

@@userwheretogo yes

The Romans used to say "we conquered Greece with our army, but the Greeks conquered us with their culture" I think this answers our question

@Hugh_Morris

4 жыл бұрын

Great Destroyer what a boat load of good Christianity did the Romans

@panoskatrin4910

4 жыл бұрын

@Great Destroyer rome found its own path in Christianity?

@kyriakos_ioannou

4 жыл бұрын

@Great Destroyer Plot twist, the path for Christianity was set by Plato.

@koalabandit9166

3 жыл бұрын

I'd include that as a pro-roman argument: it really says a lot about Roman culture that they would say something like that (maybe a bit like the fact that they were proud to think themselves descendants of Aeneas and the defeated Trojans).

@qv8281

3 жыл бұрын

Rick Quicker conquer is a hyperbole to emphasise the massive influence of Greek culture on almost all aspects of Roman culture whether that be literature, history, architecture, religion, academia etc etc

0:00 : introduction 2:52 : Boris johnsons speech 29:22 : Mary beards speech 56:08 : discussion 1:10:00 : questions from the audience 1:34:42. : results from the final vote

@jaojao1768

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@Diana-no6mu

3 жыл бұрын

Grik e Roman abbiamo. Appreso dai. Greci e noi. Romani li. Abbiamo. Perfezionati Una. Faccia. Una. Razza Siamo. Uguali

@Omar2788

3 жыл бұрын

thanks! skipping to mary's speech

@lobstered_blue-lobster

3 жыл бұрын

@@Omar2788 You should really hear Boris' speech it was quite entertaining and made amazing points.

@Omar2788

3 жыл бұрын

@@lobstered_blue-lobster he mocks seneca's tragedies.. i can't do it..

As a Greek i think it's safe to say western civilization as we know it wouldn't be the same without both Greece and Rome 🇬🇷🇮🇹

@aspropotamosorg

3 жыл бұрын

@@fvefve12 Look at China and Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, North Korea. That will answer your question.

@mogznwaz

3 жыл бұрын

Very true. Respect must be paid to our ancient forbears

@ohwellwhateverr

3 жыл бұрын

Such a Greek answer - diplomatic and fair!

@giovaneitalia8312

3 жыл бұрын

@@yojukitomodele they were already mixed in culture together when romans bring their culture to the west and the north Europe

@Bakupa91

3 жыл бұрын

@@aspropotamosorg acient persia is just as much part of western civs legacy as the romans and the greeks were. The only reason Iran is a theocracy, is because UK/US meddled in their politics. Their current government overthrough the american backed puppet monarch. And the government the western powers usurped was a modern democratic state. Look up Mohammad Mosaddegh Irans current state of government is the result of imperialism.. You reap what you sow I guess ..

It's a very strange realization that Boris Johnson would have made a really good college lecturer.

@suefreewoman6581

4 жыл бұрын

What a great pity he did not become a College lecturer.

@NoumenalSoup

4 жыл бұрын

@@suefreewoman6581 instead of a great PM?

@suefreewoman6581

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoumenalSoup No. Instead of a terrible P.M.

@knukkaboom4491

4 жыл бұрын

@@suefreewoman6581 How is he a terrible PM when he promised to fulfil brexit? The democratic choice of UK.

@suefreewoman6581

4 жыл бұрын

@@knukkaboom4491 I voted Leave, but it is hardly the only issue. BoJo is already tightening the thumb screws on the sick, and it was totally predictable. As for Brexit, the people who think it's going to happen will no doubt be scanning the skies for Santa in a couple of nights.

Why the classics should still be a part of everyone’s school education in Europe.

@guilhermegarcia8750

4 жыл бұрын

Not just europe, in the whole west.

@RobertFKleinberg

4 жыл бұрын

And America.

@jordanbarlow3788

4 жыл бұрын

I’m afraid that would make Western people proud of their heritage, we can’t have such things!

@simapark

4 жыл бұрын

And the result would be a whole generation who wouldn’t have a clue how to change a car wheel or bleed a radiator. The whole country would resemble the metropolitan elite living in the London bubble .

@venmis137

4 жыл бұрын

How? I mean what good does the current school system teach us. We might as well give people some idea of where their culture came from, and then let them specialise further down the road.

I love to imagine how ancient greeks and romans would feel if they saw evolved "barbarians" debating about their fallen civilisations. History is madness! :-)

@averayugen8462

2 жыл бұрын

Written history u mean...;=)

@differentgaze

2 жыл бұрын

@@averayugen8462 Is there any other type? Words fade in time...

@lotusblossom6814

Жыл бұрын

lol. it is funny how the so called barbarians became very quickly civilised and ended up owning the entire world pretty much. must be the drops of roman blood left behind

@rogeriopenna9014

Жыл бұрын

Well, this debate took place in a Roman colony, right? Londonium

@differentgaze

Жыл бұрын

@@rogeriopenna9014 Yes Romans taught them how to "take a bath" :-)

It's interesting how people seem to lump Trump and Johnson together on the global stage because of their similar styles and appearances -- but whatever you think of his politics and behavior (which I personally am against by the way) Johnson is many heads and shoulders above Trump when it comes to intellectual curiosity, vigor, and learnedness.., Imagine Trump participating in a debate about the classical world!

@TheOneLichemperor

4 жыл бұрын

Imagine Trump participating in a debate full stop. That said - I can certainly see why the two are seen through the same lens, though they are very different they both occupy positions in the same political movement.

@navillus15

3 жыл бұрын

It really does seem to come down to HAIRstyles that gives any credence at all by the mass media to the comparisons.

@Aberelimar

3 жыл бұрын

@@navillus15 Aren't both hairstyles weird, to say the least. Whereas Trump seems to copy the 60s with Elvis, I always wonder why Boris' hair never sees a comb.

@diamondinthesky4771

3 жыл бұрын

Trump - "Nero grabbed that boy by the dick and turned it into a pussy." Trump - "Ya know they really should've just built a wall. I don't know why they didn't build a wall. Would've solved so many problems if all these ancient countries just built walls." Trump - "I really relate to the Ancient Egyptians. Nobody knew gold like they did, and trust me I know my gold just look at my casinos, ok, I know my gold." Trump - "Rome really should've just sent those germanics back - and don't get me wrong many Germanics were fine, decent people, but some of them were rapists, and some of them were pillagers, and some of them were Vandals! If I was Roman Emperor, they would definitely have to go back."

@Aberelimar

3 жыл бұрын

It's unimaginable.

Anyone who compares Boris to Trump should be shown this video.

@bigtorrisi

4 жыл бұрын

I hear Trump speaking Greek all the time.

@mbaker335

4 жыл бұрын

@@bigtorrisi Very good!

@Samuel-px1xt

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@ruru6881

4 жыл бұрын

We wait and see what he will do for his country which right now is not doing good , in three years Trump has taken USA to success ,6.5 million new jobs in three years , factories are coming back . Success 👍

@travelator3035

4 жыл бұрын

Trump was a businessman while Boris was a journalist before becoming leaders of their respective countries

I came, I saw, I enjoyed it.

@naerua9267

5 жыл бұрын

I came, i saw, i came

@marcusholden9165

5 жыл бұрын

lol

@juanlopezvillegas1550

5 жыл бұрын

vini, vidi, ego fruendum eam doesn't sound as cool.

@dmarion8004

4 жыл бұрын

Known history contest fun for sure.

@dibdap2373

4 жыл бұрын

@@naerua9267 I came, I saw, I came again.

Watching this i can't get over the feeling that Boris Johnson missed his calling. He would have been a fantastic lecturer.

@dale17

3 жыл бұрын

How i wish he had gone down that career path

@sionsmedia8249

3 жыл бұрын

He should and could still be a lecturer for the entire country.

@Nikelaos_Khristianos

3 жыл бұрын

I still hold the weird hope that he still could turn out like some sort of Plato of our own time: Traumatised by politics, he sought refuge in the bosom of philosophy!

@robgreen5943

3 жыл бұрын

He's literally the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world. I don't think he'll be worried mate haha.

@Angelfish-wr1pp

3 жыл бұрын

ho ho ho into the exam hall?

What a wonderful delight! Caught this in Shanghai watching via VPN on KZread. Amazing to see the other side of Boris.

BOTH ancient Greece and Rome are what gave birth to modern western civilization. As I usually say greeks planted the seed and romans watered the field.

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

@Nick Nack so give us for instance info and resources on who invented this kind of architecture, democracy, philosophy, medicine, paved roads, levers, gears, ceramic roofs, geography, geology, biology, psychology, currency, jury system, theatres, drama, comedy, tragedy, sport games (boxing, football, running, spear, wrestling, discus etc), geometry, mathematical and general science reasoning, new methods of astronomy, analog computers, urban watering and sewing systems, water mills, metric devices, pumps etc before the ancient Greeks did. You seem passionate about it. Waiting for specific evidence

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

@Nick Nack lol, no resources as I imagined. And a few near misses. Stonehedge? lololol I gave you the whole western civilization to explain to me. Is that all you got? Phoenicians gave us (and to you apparently) some of the actual letters. The language is the same with the Mycenean Greek. The language is what matters, not the letters. And what's with the periphery argument. First of all that's not true. The innovations were from everywhere that was considered ancient Greece and second of all maybe because periphery was usually away from all the political turmoil between Sparta and Athens, one could think more clearly and invent new things. How about that, since we're in the realm of shitty arguments? I did speak of new methods in astronomy and didn't claim the architecture of the Pyramids in any way. Yes football, there has been relative archaeology. You had to say something for the sake of saying something and you did. My request remains completely unanswered. You haven't learned anything from Plato and Aristotle I guess

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

@Nick Nack Again never claimed Greeks to be first at everything, not in general architecture, not in general astronomy, not in general writing, not in measuring time etc. What are you smoking, am I not writing in English? You are demeaning Greeks so much though. That's why I gave you a quest with specific well-known Greek inventions, so that you can prove your conspiracy theory right to us. On these specific things though, which by themselves indicate that we are dealing with the main influencers of the western civilization, not who invented fire and the wheel and the first shelter. Also I never claimed that Greeks weren't influenced by earlier civilizations, but not to the degree Romans were influenced by the Greeks. I'd say Romans is essentially a …Greek civilization by 90%. In the beginning and in the end (Byzantium). Objectively. Greeks are by no means an Egyptian or a Sumerian civilization. If you can't see that then I give up on you, it's hopeless. I'm not a linguist, but any linguist in the world will say to you that Linear-B is the precursor to the later Greek language. Again language matters more. If it wasn't the Phoenician letters I'm sure they would have invented some other, even more comprehensible letters. They made sophisticated analog computers, I'm sure they could invent some simpler alphabet. No, rustic village of Rome did not have jury trials and democratic systems before Athens. Prove it to me that they did. Who said it, in what book. I put to you a quest to respond, so respond. So far you give me things that I never claimed belonged to Greeks and the few that was in my quest you're plain wrong or confused about. Stay away from drugs or get over that butthurt notion you seem to have for Greeks

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

Again stop imagining things I haven't said and just give me sources about your claims on the things that were indeed on my list. First jury system, first democracy in Rome and you mentioned medicine at some point. The rest of the things you say I didn't claim. Answer or stfu

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

@Nick Nack And to completely destroy some of the rest stupid arguments you made. - Since when Cycladic, Minoan and Myceanean civilizations were Barbarians before the Phoenicians gave them the alphabet? Especially the Minoans were advanced and peaceful. Or have you ever been to ancient Minoan and Mycenean sites to see the ruins? Far from barbaric societies. Of course those civilizations knew how to sail and navigate before the Phoenicians since they colonized & traded off shore and fought pirates. - You call the first historian in the world a retarded and you say your purpose in not to demean. - The innovations were equally from the mainland too, not only from the periphery. False premise you got there, followed by a lousy and illogical argument. Greek city states were not ruled by other civilizations during the golden age of innovations. False again - Yes Rome spread the Greek ideas as Alexander the Great did and now we have western civilization instead of backwards societies. Byzantium/Constantinople helped too although Christian. You say this was a bad thing. How? Are compl. stupid? - The Phoinician alphabet influenced the Hebrews too, I don't see Hebrew script being the lingua franca of the ancient world. I wonder why - Linear b gave us the greek language and thus millions of golden literature and valuable text, so it had cultural impact, you're wrong there too. Lets not forget also that itself is if not the first, but one of the first written langs in Europe. Sure it made some big impact in the Bronze age in many sectors - Unlike your suggestions western philosophy 700 bC and democracy 462bC (with previous reformations from Solon and Klesthenes in 700-600 bC) were born in Greece. Rome had some form of complicated "public" aristocracy system, therefore oligarchy. Western Philosophy was ground breaking & had nothing to do with the earlier works in the east or Egypt - Jury system in Greece was pretty much fine tuned like today. In Rome it was like big crowds yelling for the "guilty" ones to get thrown into the lions as gladiators. Can't get more barbaric than this. - Hippocrates was the first to introduce us to modern medicine, describe diseases with details and introduce modern methods for symptomatology, physical findings, surgical treatment and prognosis. Hippocrates was the first documented person to practice cardiothoracic surgery, and his findings are still valid. Earlier eastern or southern medicine and physicians were too primitive, too herbal and often inserting the ideas of supernatural to the table. - Rest of what you said was misleading because I never claimed superiority or pioneering in all things

It makes me proud to be Greek to listen to the prime minister of the UK, speak with such adoration and passion about our history.... Then I remember that our previous prime minister couldn't even speak English and all the pride is gone.

@garethwigglesworth8187

4 жыл бұрын

Most people in England love ancient Greece. Lots of stories for life!

@chrisgibson5267

4 жыл бұрын

There was a time when even the most humble of us were raised on the stories from Ancient Greece.

@jacquelinesherlock2274

4 жыл бұрын

You need to be forward thinking. What has gone before doesn't matter, it has passed. All that matters is what is to happen in our future.

@samdoidge1054

4 жыл бұрын

@@jacquelinesherlock2274 I believe this is wrong. We can study history to understand human nature which helps us better understand the future.

@lokischeissmessiah5749

4 жыл бұрын

@@garethwigglesworth8187 To be fair most people in the UK love both Classical Greece and Ancient Rome.

About a document on women’s life in Ancient Rome: “It would undermine your argument” “Yeah it’d be nice to have” The difference between a politician and a historian! Love this.

@SethTheOrigin

4 жыл бұрын

He was right though. She was trying to say women didn't have much influence but then references the autobiography of a woman that was the de-facto ruler of the Roman Empire for many years.

@alexb9969

Жыл бұрын

@@SethTheOrigin if we are to think about it, more works were lost than preserved. Just look at Suetonius, out of 6 books we only have one left, titles like Greek terms of abuse and The History of Famous Whores may never be read by us. A lot of Livy's AUC has also been erased. Tacitus survived in only one manuscript. If Horace had access to thousand of verses be Sappho, we may only read a few fragments. But what is ultimately crucial to remember in my opinion is that the fall of this civilized glossary didn't come with the Middle Ages, but with the crumbling of the Western Roman Empire during Late Antiquity

I choose the Byzantine Empire, both Roman and Greek ;)

@mkkravist11

3 жыл бұрын

It would be Hot dogs vs hamburgers...

@adamrules01

3 жыл бұрын

The Byzantine empire was the worst of both mashed together into a state that was held together with optimism

@alvinj2635

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamrules01 and survived for a millennium. Clearly it is the worst state in existence

@marcelo497

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamrules01 They were doing pretty well until Justinian plague

@aspropotamosorg

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😅😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Well you don’t see much Roman yoghurt on the shelves. Case closed.

@MariCharalambous1

4 жыл бұрын

lol hahaha

@danieloshodi8997

4 жыл бұрын

Pip Pipster 😂😂😂😂😂😂

@deg6788

4 жыл бұрын

But I can still shove a gladius in your worthless life . So what is your point

@redsquirrel888

4 жыл бұрын

Case closed. On the contrary ! You are using the word closed which is derived from the Latin word clausus and you are commenting on a KZread video. The word video is also of Latin/Roman origin.

@redsquirrel888

4 жыл бұрын

Case closed. On the contrary ! You are using the word closed which is derived from the Latin word clausus and you are commenting on a KZread video. The word video is also of Latin/Roman origin.

Had no idea,that Mr Johnson Is so charismatic AND deeply educated,wish him and to all British people a prosperous future....greetings from Greece

@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278

4 жыл бұрын

He is neither deeply educated nor is he charismatic. He just had a wealthy privileged background and a public school education which equipped him with the right tools (mostly linguistic and in terms of attitude and comportment) to appear learned and clever. Please do not feel flattered as a Greek, he has been indoctrinated to use culture and knowledge as a tool for his elitist agenda. He does not care the least about his own people let alone modern Greeks.And that goes for most members of the English upper class.

@arsadams

4 жыл бұрын

@@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278 based on what I saw here (video) yes he is charismatic. Given to the fact that "Charisma" is a Greek word,any effort to translate it has to take in mind it's very etimological (another Greek word) value. In other words,knowing the "classics" is something that makes a man "complete", in a sense that there is where someone can get a full knowledge about himself and the world around him. And please make no mistake, I'm not saying all this because I'm Greek as you say. I just aware of the importance that "classic Greek" education is having on shaping minds and societies. You see,the very spirit of what we consider as "classics" represents the very heart of what we name Western values. On a personal basis, (another Greek word) have you ever wondered why in all upper class educational institutes being in UK,USA,Switzerland,France the knowledge of "classics" considered of great importance? Is just because and I'm telling you that with full knowledge that there's no world company out there who's going to entrust a leading post to someone who lacks that kind of educational training. At the end the high class in all Western world knows that "Classics" is an indispensable part of a leaders training. If you want to find the answer you have to read the "Greeks" they used to be (some) homosexuals but very moral public figures, they knew the importance of a well balanced life ,and considered a balanced life as a key to a happy life. Their morality probably was quite eclectic as they didn't consider all equals (is there a strong base to believe so,apart of equally respecting everyone?). At the end yes I do believe that Mr Johnson is going to be a great leader for Britain, because his visions are based on the convictions of a past that always repeat itself, and just because of this he sees more than the most...par example he knows that Britain will be better off away from EU, he knows that such kind of bureocratic experiments don't last,and more importantly they do not produce solutions .He knows the gate of Athenian "Amfictionies" (Confederacy) and he has all necessary convictions. On the other hand I'm waiting nothing as a Greek by Mr Johnshon, my only true expectation is that Mr Johnshon will recover Western values in the UK ,by limiting the unquestioned cultural "invasion" that all Europe suffering from. At the end if I sounded kind as a promoter of all things Greek, please forgive me, that was not my intention ,being Greek is just a game of fortune and in many ways can be seen as an accident, just because I'm not emotionally blind. I'm sure that the ones here who had the opportunity to know the meaning of "Classics" and what that represents to all of the west,they know what I'm talking about. In one point of your response you pointed something like : Boris is only linguistically trained . Let me remind you that this skill is of a high importance specially for a public figure,because define and articulate are important and indispensable parts of a greater planning . Be sure That these ancient attitudes still work today too.Merry Christmas to everyone!

@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278

4 жыл бұрын

@@arsadams Mr Katsonis I am impressed you took the time to write this in reply to my comment. As a fellow Greek who has studied classics and archaeology both in Greece and in London, I am fully aware of the value and weight of classical culture. I have actually played my own part in promoting the necessity of introducing ancient Greek and Latin as subjects in secondary education in the UK. However, having taught classics, and having spent time in Academia I am well aware of which aspects of classical culture interest the educational system in the UK as well as in the US. Cherry picking from the moments of perceived glory of Athenian democracy or Imperial Rome or even seriously studying ancient history does not guarantee necessarily an improvement of character or a cultivation of moral values. The most important lessons from classical antiquity come from the precarious balance between logic and passion, as expressed primarily in poetry and drama; in the contradictions of democracy at the height of its glory; in the presocratic philosophers' attempt to grasp what lies beneath the surface of perceptually apprehensible reality and first pointing at the relation between the macrocosm and the microcosm; in the artists' attempts to represent the unrepresentable, to materialise the immaterial with an unsurpassed economy of means and a serene simplicity that transposes the particular into the universal.... Ergo, we need to get rid of the tradition of approaching classical and pre-classical antiquity through the interpretations of the Renaissance or the Romantic period, (or, even worse the Victorians). When it is the colonial edifice and project that have provided both the lens through which we see antiquity, and the clumsily crystallised fragments of knowledge the so called 'well educated' have access to, we do not protect western culture from the barbarians that lurk outside the gates. We join them in demolishing the walls ourselves.

@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278

4 жыл бұрын

@J. Harris. Privilege enhances intelligence. However, It also masks slyness, cunning, over-inflated self-importance and ruthless ambition behind the shiny veneer of wit. A very expensive veneer indeed.

@haveyougotthetimeple

4 жыл бұрын

@@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278 Your bitterness is clear for all to see.

Europe Civilization is a Greco-Roman birth. Greece gave birth almost on everything, then Romans add their own culture and administration, engineering, technology and spread it through Europe. Thank you G-R (Greeks - Romans)

@freckleheckler6311

3 жыл бұрын

And National socialist Germany was the resurrection of the collapsing west. They were part of the third in the chain. A.H himself was infatuated with Rome and proclaimed it to be the greatest civilization of antiquity. There are striking similarities and of it being the direct successor to Ancient Rome. As evil as he was, Germany’s loss was a grave mistake

@randomstuff1315

2 жыл бұрын

@@freckleheckler6311 The Germans literally claimed that the ancient Greeks looked Germanic but in reality modern Greek Cypriots have the most Mycenean like DNA. The Myceneans were the first Hellenic civilization. Modern mainland Greeks mixed with North Europeans later, Slavs , Balkans etc. Here's some Eurogenes G25 genetic admixture models of modern people compared to ancient DNA samplea. BA = Brozne Age, IA = Iron age and EMA = Early Medieval. Target: Greek_Cypriot Distance: 1.0053% 40.0 Greek_Mycenaean_BA 33.4 Levant_BA 26.6 Anatolia_BA Target: Turk_Cypriot Distance: 1.8445% 34.0 Levant_BA 33.4 Greek_Mycenaean_BA 22.4 Anatolia_BA 5.2 BedouinA_Arab_North_Modern 3.0 Early_Slav_EMA 2.0 Turkic_West_and_Ottoman Target: Greek_Macedonia Distance: 1.0228% 29.0 Greece_North_BA 25.6 Early_Slav_EMA 22.8 Balkan_BA_IA 11.4 Anatolia_BA 11.2 Levant_BA Target: Greek_Thessaly (2 Models average) 49,0 Greece_North_BA 29,2 Balkan_BA_IA 13,9 Levant_BA 7,9 Early_Slav_EMA Target: Greek_Peloponnese Distance: 1.0118% 34.6 Balkan_BA_IA 34.6 Greece_North_BA 19.8 Levant_BA 11.0 Early_Slav_EMA Target: Greek_Crete Distance: 0.8487% 36.4 Greece_North_BA 23.0 Levant_BA 18.8 Anatolia_BA 13.8 Balkan_BA_IA 4.0 Early_Slav_EMA 3.4 Greek_Mycenaean_BA 0.6 Turkic_West_and_Ottoman Target: Greek_Dodecanese Distance: 1.0086% 31.2 Anatolia_BA 24.2 Greece_North_BA 18.4 Balkan_BA_IA 18.0 Levant_BA 4.8 Greek_Mycenaean_BA 3.4 Turkic_West_and_Ottoman

@user-oz3vl4xd1k

Жыл бұрын

@@randomstuff1315 The germans also tried to appropriate the title of roman citizens from us by creating a huge potato looking papal state called the holy roman empire. After they were unsuccessful to convince anybody that their Unholy Unroman feudality inc. was a legitimate successor of the roman empire, they renamed us 'byzantium' to undermine us and the 1000 years during which the eastern roman empire was kicking their ass. The first hellenic civilization BTW was the minoan about 2000 b.c.

@randomstuff1315

Жыл бұрын

@@user-oz3vl4xd1k "unholy unroman" i love it, i also used that before. "The first hellenic civilization BTW was the minoan about 2000 b.c." The Minoans were not Hellenes, they did not speak a Hellenic language and did not descend from Greeks. But the Mycenaeans were highly influenced by Minoan civilization. The Mycenaeans had around 30% Proto-Greek ancestry as you can see below in the admixture model and 50% ancestry from a Pre-Hellenic population of Greece that was similar genetically to the Minoans. Basically Proto-Greek + Pelasgian = Mycenaean. Target: *Mycenaean_Greek_1350bc* Distance: 2.6540% *53.6* Minoan_Lassithi_2400-1700BC *31.6* Logkas_Thessaly_2600-2000bc( *Proto-Greek* ) *14.8* Anatolia_Ikiztepe_LC_3100bc

@mogznwaz

Жыл бұрын

And then Britain added Shakespeare, Parliamentary democracy. Magna Carta, the Industrial Revolution and spread that and much more around the world

As an Italian I can say without a doubt that both cultures were equally important for the formation of the Western World 🇮🇹❤🇬🇷

@blob2092

Жыл бұрын

also Berlusconi he invent the Bunga-Bunga party, which are very influential

@wserthmar8908

Жыл бұрын

I don't care about "the Western world," tbh. Gimme the Germanic people: Anglos, Saxons, Scandinavians (Swedes, Danes etc,) not all this "Western" BS. The best democracies are of Germanic origins. Common law > Continental law. The best version of Christianity (Protestantism) is a movement of the Czech, Englishers, Germans, the Dutch, and later, of the North American colonists of English, German, Dutch, Scandinavian origin.

@DivineHellas

Жыл бұрын

They weren’t separate cultures

@majestyj8519

Жыл бұрын

As a Greek, I agree!!

The Greeks win hands down for humanities but Rome won everything by the sword.

@Loostyc

4 жыл бұрын

Except from Roman law

@redwine2664

4 жыл бұрын

@@Loostyc roman laws are still in use today! I Codicci Romani

@TMPOUZI

4 жыл бұрын

@@redwine2664 democracy and philosophy and Olympic games and theatre and Pythagorean geometry and geography and medicine though all Greek, still in use today. And all that took 1000 years to be rediscovered by the westerners

@ShaneyElderberry

4 жыл бұрын

Rome also won with the word, let's not forget that. This comment section is by far a 'Pyrrhic' victory with Latin alphabet use.

@casrifay

4 жыл бұрын

You didn’t hear the whole lecture, I think

Greece was NOT only Athens! It was Athens, Sparta, Mycenes, Argos, Olympia, Fokea, Syracouses, Macedonia, Epirus, Thebes, Massalia, Alexandria, Miletos etc etc etc

@innosanto

4 жыл бұрын

Of course. The Iliad has nothing to do with Athens.

@WOEEW

4 жыл бұрын

Ionia

@NotQuiteFirst

4 жыл бұрын

The Greeks also gave is the word synecdoche.

@alfredodistefanolaulhe2212

4 жыл бұрын

Democratic Athens sucked, oligarchic Sparta was the best.

@stamatiskapogiannis4647

4 жыл бұрын

But Athens actually is the birthplace of the Western Civilization

This actually gave me a very different opinion on Boris Johnson, he would have made an awesome professor

@willardmusick1187

2 жыл бұрын

Boris a smart guy. He was bred for public service.

@schwaben4120

2 жыл бұрын

He had a very weird and outdated view of ancient Greece, feels like he stepped right out of the 1800s

@claramanana7463

2 жыл бұрын

This could only take place in England!

@nomayor1

2 жыл бұрын

Well yes but this specific show was surely biased by his political nature, i.e. him being representing the Torries, I mean. Surely, surely people voted against him here just because of that and not on the merit of the arguments he made.

@innosanto

2 жыл бұрын

He is very well educated.

Greece won culturally (and by a distance). Rome won militarily (and by a distance).

Roman culture could not have happened if not for Greek development and culture.The Romans themselves were obsessed by anything Greek.

@-_--vx5hz

5 жыл бұрын

that is 100% true

@oldi184

5 жыл бұрын

Why there is so little texts, documents and manuscripts from dark ages era? 500 AD - 1000 AD. We have rich antique. We have rich middle ages but nothing from dark ages. Why?

@merseybeat1963

5 жыл бұрын

@@oldi184 It was too dark.

@xealit

5 жыл бұрын

true, but without Romans that culture probably would not survive till our times...

@oldi184

5 жыл бұрын

merseybeat1963 But seriously why? The term dark ages was made in middle ages, I believe in 1300s or 1400s. Indeed we have so little info from that time. Looks like European culture just literally went dark for about 500 years. I know that the collapse of the Roman empire is to blame but we cant put all the blame on that. For 5 ages Europeans did not created any literature, poems, stories and science or almost any significant documents like people in ancient Rome and Greece did.

This is one of the best videos I have seen for a long time

@user-kn9ib9zm4q

4 жыл бұрын

me too

I tend to think of it as Greece being the "inspiration", and Rome being the "implementation". One without the other is not terribly impactful...they produce much better results together.

@innosanto

2 жыл бұрын

Rome is not the implementation. It was mostly a degradation. Greece was not presented well because it was Athenocentric. The combination with Ptolemies Alexandria, or Miletus, or Syracuse, together with Athens would show how much of a difference there was. Rome was great in construction, infrastructure, legal system, But literally most other things, greatest advances in geometry, the first hydraulic mechanism, first hydraulic machines, first land line of boats,((diolkos), first tunnel of big length by stating from both sides if mountain to meet in center(Thales tunnel), modern urban planning (ippodamean system of Miletus), first calculation of the circumference of the world (very precise) ( and assumption that is round as well,), first theory that sun is not a god but object, first organized benefits for citizens and benefits for all, first public healthcare system, in fact the founder of scientific medicine, best avcoustics of Odeon's whose acoustics were not matched, first integral computations from Archimedes, or use of science of ratios analysed scientifically in their aesthetics and used in constructions, for first leagues and fwderations of many states to discuss matters such as the Hellenic league, the Delphi discussions etc, and onstitutions with many states to have to abide by such as the Olympics which forced the stop of all military acts between all states, which are examples of the modern multistage institutions, first examples of political systems with equilibrium bodies ,(Sparta where the 2 kings, the apella, the assembly, and the ephors were in equilibrium for stability, which actually made Sparta very very stable for many years contrary to the point of the unstable states), with even Roman period greats many either being Greek or being Greek educated by studying in Athens., First Google in the library of Alexandria ( every book from every shop entering copied and copy held in library for accumulation and study, first university for many subjects, first hydraulic instrent like the church organ (hyfraulis), first analog computer (antikithera mechanism,), first expression of atpmic theory. and Indoor plumbing existed in Athens. Difference is overwellming. Romans are really great just no comparison Vs the other.

@craven5328

2 жыл бұрын

@@innosanto I think in relating all the "firsts" of ancient Greece, we are actually sort of in agreement. For me a "first" (an invention or innovation) is the fruit of "inspiration". Why I consider Rome to have more a spirit of implementation is that they seemed to readily borrow the "firsts" of other lands, and systematize their use at scale in new ways. For example, while they did borrow plumbing technology developed elsewhere, they used it to develop large systems of public bath houses and clean, public water fountains.. making something that might have been only accessible to the wealthy before, accessible to all. While the Romans didn't invent the notion of the library, they did democratize them. Early libraries were very rarely lending libraries and mostly accessible only to scholars / the elite. Rome developed public library systems (and had about 28 in the city itself at one point) domestically, and through the empire. We know the Romans owe a lot to their Etruscan forbears when it comes to road technology, but the Romans systematized the construction of high quality roads from Britain to the Tigris. Of course the roads greatly facilitated the transport of their army, but the Twelve Tables also demanded that the government build public roads and maintain public waystations (not that they were always free of charge, mind you). While the Greeks no doubt made many original contributions to medicine, they did not really have any public provisions for it. The Roman government on the other hand used senate funds to construct public hospitals (there is no record of anyone ever being charged for services at the Aesculapium, Rome' first public hospital). They also seemed to have subsidized the services of doctors not working out of the official public hospitals, so that they would also treat the poor.

@craven5328

2 жыл бұрын

@@DivineHellas This is the first time I have encountered anyone seemingly maintain that there were really no important distinctions between the civilization that emerged in Italy in the 8th century BC, and that that emerged at a similar time in Archaic Greece. At least, it's certainly not something that is typically taught when you take the survey courses on the history of western art. Yes, we all know that there were a collection of city-states which had differences, but there were enough unifying characteristics that we can on KZread comments colloquially refer to them as Ancient Greece (I mean, Herodotus even noted that they shared "the same stock and the same speech, our shared temples of the gods and religious rituals, our similar customs,” and the city-states did themselves find they had enough in common that they would do well to unify against Persian threats). Sorry, but your comment just comes off as incredibly...pedantic.

@jtrosse9092

2 жыл бұрын

Mary touch on the fact that without the Roman Empire that lasted for over a thousand years and included most of the known Western World at that time (and their admiration of the Greeks), the Greek civilization's contributions to the Western World would be severely limited.

@Galexlol

2 жыл бұрын

@@innosanto You know Romans built Rome on their own and other countless cities right. Greece had amazing philosophers artists and more, but it's a legit island compared to Rome. You cannot say "we thought these things in a miniscule place so we're the best", you did it in Greece only. Western Civilization Greece helped, not secured. You didn't conquer all of Europe while barbarians were sitting in huts. You stood in your island. Without Rome humanity would still be in the middle ages. You contributed, without Rome nothing would've happened. This is what happened, end of story, there's no fighting, both are important, but one is what actually got Greece to help, because if Rome didn't exist, Greece would've been nothing and whatever you guys thought would've been burnt by random barbarians coming through. Don't fight over Rome and Greece. This is just a funny debate. We're brothers, not superiors. It's Greco-Roman Heritage, not Greece Heritage or Roman Heritage for a reason. Use your head.

What an excellent debate from two passionate and very knowledgeable speakers! I just didn't want it to finish. Congratulations to both!

The most amusing debate over Brexit/EU I've seen yet.

@siegfriedwolf739

4 жыл бұрын

Someone got it...

@treybie1

4 жыл бұрын

But the election results didn't match this audience's results. Thank Goodness!

@dannyboywhaa3146

4 жыл бұрын

treybie1 well it is television lol... can’t have everything!

@weazyweaz1

4 жыл бұрын

This was quite a bit before the brexit vote

@physical_graffiti8671

3 жыл бұрын

@@weazyweaz1 Ancient Rome was actually a long time ago

There is no perfect society. But we admire the first society in human history that critically and freely reflected on its own pathologies.

@Drumsgoon

5 жыл бұрын

Well said, so what that it was just Athens and then just a few hundred years? It was 2500 years ago, yet most of the humans who lived since have not reached that level of civilization yet...

Macedonian Greeks were the Hells Angel's of ancient Greece but neither mentioned by Boris Johnson or Mary beard..

Get well soon Boris, Harold Baldr , sent me here

@tuanenbrian6992

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha legend

@lipokyanger7685

4 жыл бұрын

Same here

@AdeDaviesWales

4 жыл бұрын

Me too. Get well soon Boris :)

@YewandeRae

4 жыл бұрын

because you said that all of you I had to go and check out Harald and now Im a fan of his too lol

@suefreewoman6581

4 жыл бұрын

Boris was never ill.

Mary Beard v. Boris Johnson! And the winner is....US! Thank you both for a wonderful evening!!

This was fantastically good. I don't know much about Boris, but based on this presentation the UK is lucky to have him as Prime Minister. This man has a deep understanding of Western Values and History.

@paratrooper6

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life.

@ivanbombana7282

4 жыл бұрын

Well, he studied all these things in Eton

@1chish

4 жыл бұрын

@@paratrooper6 Well if you did its possibly because you are an ignorant moron. Just suggesting. You people laugh at intelligence because you do not understand the points being made and so attack the person not the argument. Its what Remainers have done for 3 1/2 years and Boris took barely 6 months to defeat them. Name me one other Prime Minister or President that could open a debate as Johnson did ...

@recipeacefoodialogue4915

4 жыл бұрын

@@1chish Well to be fair intellect itself does not reflect on thinking for the people and not just self-interest, now obliviously intelligent people are more reasonable but it is the combination of intellect and good character that makes a good leader

@1chish

4 жыл бұрын

@@recipeacefoodialogue4915 Very true but as Prime Minister you need a good intellect to understand and then work out solutions to all the issues that crop up every day. And while good character can be a bonus I would say conviction is a better trait. Thatcher had conviction and intellect in abundance but I am sure also she could be pretty mean to anyone who crossed her. But I am also aware of her huge personal generosity. Others will just call her an appalling woman ..

2021: *Pfizer vs AstraZeneca*

@ThatLadyBird

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

@majidzaya5484

3 жыл бұрын

AstraZenecas suspected product is actually an Oxford laboratory result that went to proction by AstraZeneca

@prosamgg2177

2 жыл бұрын

Vs johnson and johnson

@Falcrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@prosamgg2177 Johnson vs. Johnson

Churchill likened the British empire to Greece and the USA to Rome.

@lobstered_blue-lobster

3 жыл бұрын

That is poetic because it's really true. As the Romans replicated large aspects their culture from the Greeks likewise did the USA from the UK.

@DucadiBorgogna_

2 жыл бұрын

agree

To think that people compare this bloke to Donald Trump.

@fatsamcastle

7 жыл бұрын

Charlie green eyed monsters the lot of them

@JONNOG88

7 жыл бұрын

Boris has more intellect. In his Toe nail clippings . Then Trump has in his entire. Toupee covered bonce ;)

@CoolioXXX52

7 жыл бұрын

JONNOG88 nope

@veronicawhatley5044

6 жыл бұрын

Trump is a thick we know that, Boris just pretends he is but then so did Churchill.

@squamish4244

6 жыл бұрын

"Donald Trump with a thesaurus."

This was a random find that I was completely unaware of and I've thoroughly enjoyed it! 👍

I really love when they both become giddy in defending their sides. It's like two passionate kids debating over whether Batman is better than Superman but in a very eloquent manner.

@innosanto

2 жыл бұрын

And who invented debating and orators publicly debating contrasted to each other! Greeks! For example Isocrates for Phillip and doathenea against Phillip, or alkiviades for campaign and (don't remembwr name) against campaign.

@alekdaniels

2 жыл бұрын

@@innosanto You are as passionate about the subject as both of them. That's nice.

@marcobelli6856

4 ай бұрын

And Rome is Superman. Greek is Batman because it has plot armor

Boris holds his own here for the most part considering Mary has devoted her life to these subjects.

@evang2881

3 жыл бұрын

And so has boris, boris studied classics at oxford university and continues to be fascinated by it.

@joshuawaring4180

3 жыл бұрын

@@evang2881 he only has a Bachelors. Beard god her PhD in the early 80s and has been teaching at Cambridge since 2004.

@paulcaswell2813

3 жыл бұрын

@@evang2881 There is a honeymoon snapshot of Boris which is of great interest: rather than the typical romantic/touristy photo, he's sitting on a bench reading a red-covered (ie Latin) Loeb... And Mary was already a Fellow of Newnham, Cambridge at least by 1998.

@alekdaniels

3 жыл бұрын

Well, Boris treated it like a political debate and often doesn't allow Mary to speak. But I liked Boris better after seeing this debate.

@TBOTSS

2 жыл бұрын

@@joshuawaring4180 And still lost.

Greeks did it all first, Romans spread it and made it the lasting foundation of the modern west. Creation or promulgation, whichever you consider to be more important is the one who wins the debate.

@jorgegomez524

5 жыл бұрын

jkelsey55 greeks were creatores of civilizations, romans were creatores of empires.

@saeedvazirian

5 жыл бұрын

Actually the Persians had a civilisation before the Greeks were an ethnic group....

@AndyTomlins

5 жыл бұрын

All we know of Greece is what Rome decided was worthy. So we only have by their judgement the good bits. While Rome we have the entirety as a culture they eclipsed them.

@MrCarGuy

5 жыл бұрын

@@jorgegomez524 Greece was the creator of democratic values.

@christopherzantiotis

5 жыл бұрын

Sepehr Voshmgir Look up Minoan & Cycladic Civilizations. Also look up Proto-Sesklo Culture.... Enjoy

Never knew Boris Johnson had such a brilliant historical mind. Thanks for enlightening this American.

@fedyno4reviews

7 жыл бұрын

Michael Pellegrini this is in the hall across the road from the houses of parliament you idiot

@michaelpellegrini4811

7 жыл бұрын

+ squat ... So ... ? What am I missing? My comment was meant to be a sincere compliment. Sorry if you took it wrong.

@fergal2424

5 жыл бұрын

You'd only know he was Trump-esque moron without looking into him yourself.

@notinterested3618

5 жыл бұрын

You could enlighten an American with a match.

@fergal2424

5 жыл бұрын

@@notinterested3618 sounds like you could use some enlightening yourself. Hurr durr all 300 million plus Americans are so dumb lol lol hurr de durr

"The Romans gave us the Greeks"? How dare you say that. The Greeks gave us everything we have

@theteamranbir

7 ай бұрын

Follow the quote and it's true. Romans PRESERVED the Greeks, otherwise, they'd be another lost people. Most of the writings are from Romans.

This was really cool, the only problem I had is that Mary really had to fight to get a word in, the others would speak for 20 seconds or so unimpeded, but the moment Mary began speaking they would talk over her. If it was just once or twice, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but it was essentially every time she tried to respond to a question or argument .

@drrush3421

2 жыл бұрын

Other way round!!

@TBOTSS

2 жыл бұрын

Completely NOT TRUE. What were you watching?

@Heyprinny

2 жыл бұрын

It's the difference in occupation: she's a professor, and he's a politician. One is all about calm study and finding truth, the other is about trying to get an opinion across a bunch of screaming MPs.

@CISSY500

2 жыл бұрын

Typical steamroll over the woman but Dame Mary Beard will not tolerate. The moderator was incorrect in the introduction, Boris needed to fear being on the same debate stage as Dame Mary. Good for her!

@km09.

2 жыл бұрын

It's because she is a woman

The Boris Johnson one looks quite clever, he should run for Prime Minister or something.

@ElGancha

4 жыл бұрын

tssst good one chippah

@FiveLiver

4 жыл бұрын

It'll never happen

@slimlegs6298

4 жыл бұрын

No he bloody well shouldn’t

@titustatius8986

4 жыл бұрын

He’s Prime Minister now lol😂

@caelan8819

4 жыл бұрын

Titus Tatius, no shit!

Mary Beard citing the Edict of Caracalla as the moment when citizenship was given to all free people within the borders, despite Caracalla perhaps being Rome's most evil emperor and that he gave citizenship to increase his tax base to fund the explicit military junta of the Severan Dynasty! Septimius Severus to his sons, Geta and the aforementioned Caracalla, "Be harmonious with eachother, enrich the soldiers and scorn all other men. " Caracalla disregarded the harmonious point by having his brother assassinated at a dinner with their mother but he followed the final two points...

@alfredodistefanolaulhe2212

4 жыл бұрын

True. But Septimius Severus was also a despot.

@alfredodistefanolaulhe2212

4 жыл бұрын

@Fernando Cunha From Leptis Magna, and they were brown skinned. But Alexander Severus was more pro Aristocracy.

@JustanothaGuy

4 жыл бұрын

@Fernando Cunha Moor is the term adopted to describe the people of North Africa colonized by the Arabs during the Islamic Conquests, it would be a little more accurate to adopt the term Berber or the indigenous name Tamazight.

@JustanothaGuy

4 жыл бұрын

@Fernando Cunha It's a term mostly reserved for Muslims living the Mahgreb, Iberia, Sicily, and Malta. But there's a document that can explain it a little better than I. (Richard A Fletcher, Moorish Spain (University of California Press, 2006), pp.1,19.)

@trax-3987

4 жыл бұрын

"and they were brown skinned" Says who? Even if they were actual natives those are perhaps on average a shade darker at most than people on the other side of the sea. At least in coastal areas that Rome controlled. It's possible, I guess, but not particularly likely.

The Greek influence on Rome is undeniable. Even the Romans acknowledged that their culture borrowed heavily from the Greeks and became more sophisticated as a result. In reference to Rome's conquest of Greece in the 2nd century BCE, the Roman poet Horace wrote that "Captive Greece took captive her savage conqueror and brought the arts to rustic Latium." Perhaps the most famous Roman, Julius Caesar, saw Greece as an important cultural and political model for Rome. Caesar used the Greek general, Alexander the Great, as an inspiration for how he would lead Rome's army and government.

It's a well known fact that Romans studied extensively the ancient Greeks...

FIGHT WITH WORDS FOR OUR AMUSEMENT!

Speaking as a retired teacher, Boris Johnson is a natural educator!

@jaqatlantic

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@tilley6351

3 жыл бұрын

This is why he is able to sell his lies so well.

@fuguthefish

2 жыл бұрын

@@tilley6351 Some can't stop coming with their political views on a video that is about Greeks and Romans.

@Falcrist

2 жыл бұрын

@@fuguthefish What better place to talk about politics?

@fuguthefish

2 жыл бұрын

@@Falcrist Idk, maybe a video about politics?

As a Greek myself, who has attended the Greek education system, which teaches children ancient Greek and Latin and classical Greece and Rome's histories, I am stunned on how accurately they both discuss on these matters. I suggest that you, the rest of the West, should put both the ancient Greek and the Latin language and the respective histories of each of these cultures in your education systems' curriculi. And these speeches on behalf of the actors in Boris Johnson's speech were taught to us thoroughly in the 11th grade.

@francisa7567

3 жыл бұрын

We get taught more about Greek and Roman history as well as Viking’s and Normans than we do about the British Empire. If anything it shouldn’t be taught to primary school pupils until they learn about the colonialism that built the Western World.

@Pan472

3 жыл бұрын

@@francisa7567 Shut up for "muh colonialism". Don't drench children with guilt ffs.

@francisa7567

3 жыл бұрын

@@Pan472 Why not? Theirs a clear distinction between countries that were ruled by foreign powers and countries that are currently third world nations. From the USSR to the French empire every developing nation is a former colony of a current world power. Being dismissive about history is the first step in repeating it. Our youths should be taught relevant history in order to understand the economic divide on planet earth. Africa is a beautiful example of land cut up to fuel European wealth, children need to know why, instead of learning that Africa is the place where people starve and water is absent. South American countries don’t even speak their own native languages anymore due to the foreign invasions and instead we shun modern history to spotlight the works of the Greeks and Romans who would’ve detested the works of us in the modern era. I’m all for it international education but I’m extremely against selective education.

@supernivemdealbabor

Жыл бұрын

@@francisa7567 You mention, however, only South Americans as people who no longer speak their natives languages. What about British North America. Do they speak their native languages?, is there any significant proportion of natives in its population to speak something at all?

@squamish4244

Жыл бұрын

Is Ancient Greek at all intelligible to the modern ear?

What an unexpected treat! Watching from Wyoming-Thank You!🙋🏼‍♀️

As a Roman: " The victors with weapons ( the Romans) were culturally conquered by the defeated ( the Greeks). Grecia capta ferum victorem cepit.......

@nicolaskottis5245

4 жыл бұрын

Orazio wrote that, a Roman poet.

@Boyd2342

4 жыл бұрын

@@nicolaskottis5245 He's correct

I played Lego vs Playmobil with my son, the debate became wild, tough and deeply emotional.

@bignoize23

7 жыл бұрын

:) Lego!

@dorothyprior4681

7 жыл бұрын

Definitely PLAYMOBILf! More scope for vicarious LIVING! Lego - just for engineering.

@jpstapylton

5 жыл бұрын

PLAYMOBIL! They have different skin colours/Historic Set's and everyone's not yellow!

@neglesaks

5 жыл бұрын

@@jpstapylton ANd you an cheerily shove the pegs into the round holes and stick them all together into a complete mess.

@jpstapylton

5 жыл бұрын

neglesaks I'm glad we agree! I ride with team PLAYMOBIL all the way!

Greece is the mother of Europe, Rome is the father.

@deponensvogel7261

3 жыл бұрын

These cultures are the ancient foundation. But Europe is what the Franks made out of it.

The Ancient Greeks created the most important, lasting and influential cultural and intellectual flowering, even revolution, in human history. The Roman added a lot to what was basically their wholesale adoption of Greek culture, but not nearly as much that was as original, creative and unique as the Greeks had. They Ancient Greeks gave much credit to their primary influences, the Ancient Near East and Egyptian civilizations.

I love Mary. I had the privilege of attending her Ancient Rome lectures at Sydney University when I was doing my Masters on the Ancient near East. Very healthy sense of humour and knows her stuff

wtf this guy's nothing like trump

@TheDannyboyw

4 жыл бұрын

Quinn Reverance I think your a little wrong there although there are similarities between them you are selling trump short.i am not a 100 per cent a trump fan,when the smoke clears and all is done and history has it say,his achievements will surprise you and his ingenious rise will be recognized.

@quinnreverance611

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely Fabulous he’s not a good businessman tho, his businesses went bankrupt - and he inherited his wealth basically.

@YewandeRae

4 жыл бұрын

only Trump likened himself to Boris for his own vanities sake... he wished he was half as intelligent....

@Dude0000

4 жыл бұрын

Quinn Reverance well if he went bankrupt, then what is the benefit of inheritance? A person is judged, not by what they achieve or where they come from, but what they overcome. Bankruptcy is something very difficult to overcome, especially when you create more wealth than before, coming back stronger. Trump is a business Democrat. He’s no religions zealot or right winger. The dérangement over him is due to his peers in society being jealous. They thought he was just some real estate developer that was a celebrity that parleys that into a, albeit higher brow, reality star. The laugh they naturally had when he announced himself to run has changed into absolute disbelief when he won...especially against the first woman to get a main party’s nomination. It’s snobbery as he is seen as a lower class guy with stupid lower class voters. It’s really shown the media and their party, the Democrats up for what they are not, but suppose to be. For the people especially vulnerable working families. They’re the party of Martha’s Vineyard and Hollywood.

@quinnreverance611

4 жыл бұрын

Seneca’s Adoptive Son fat lot of good republicans are for working families yea right

Ancient Greece wins without saying

Most thoughts have been thought before. A lot can be learnt from the classics.... It should be a staple of modern education, not reserved for elite schools.

@paulcaswell2813

3 жыл бұрын

My old Classics Head of Department went out of her way to try and put a lie to the notion that Classics was an 'elitist' subject. There was an 'advertising' film of my alma mater, where she makes a 'big thing' of the subject's alleged elitism being totally false.

@innosanto

2 жыл бұрын

It is so sad, that now both civilizations are almost extinct from secondary schools. And learning grammatically the language is not the important part. Learning the meaning of the texts , that should be studied.

@Falcrist

2 жыл бұрын

The issue isn't that classics are somehow geared for the elite. The issue is that non-elite schools aren't designed to create thinkers. They're designed to create workers. Reading Cicero or Plato won't help you get your TPS report submitted on time, so the non-elite schools don't bother.

Wish you could include subtitles for hearing impaired people.

@importedmusic

4 жыл бұрын

Turn the volume up!

@SacredCowSlaughterhouse

4 жыл бұрын

can't you read lips?

@jamesbowman6681

4 жыл бұрын

Wot

@Ephrones

4 жыл бұрын

Fuck these replies, seriously. If they don’t provide subtitles, hopefully the auto-subtitling will get good enough soon.

@andyh7777

4 жыл бұрын

Android's auto subtitleing is very good

Ouf ! This was the most spirited and enjoyable debate of my whole life. !

when your own country has no history to debate xD.... ok jokes aside, don't forget that Rome died when Greece died in 1453 Rome was born from Greece and died when Greece fell!!!!

I’m dreaming of having a Classical Studies degree from a school where these two are the professors! I’d be the smartest and happiest barista that Starbucks ever had!

@christianfrommuslim

Жыл бұрын

Touche for the practical touch!

@BossySwan

11 ай бұрын

Barrister

@g.v.6450

11 ай бұрын

@@BossySwan I’d have a degree in Classical Studies; not Law. Sic transit gloria mundi!

@SergiusXVII

6 ай бұрын

Well, one of them became Prime Minister. Classics is not as useless as you make it out to be.

Fabulous. Two charismatic, intellectual and entertaining speakers. Both gave convincing presentations...

That was incredible. Loved every second of this.

Great debate, good fun. Enjoyed this more than any movie I've seen in years.

The Macedonian Greek empire stretched from ancient Greece to the edges of China. The Greek language also became the lingua franca (koine Greek ) in all territories settled by the ancient macedonians even in ancient Rome they spoke Greek. Hence the new testament was also wriiten in Greek, so there was other Greek polis states in ancient Greece that contributed to Greek culture universally not just Athens..

@donvitocascioferro4040

3 жыл бұрын

@Kostas T India is next door to China that's why he said to the edges of China.

@BeatMonkeyV5

3 жыл бұрын

Don Vito Cascioferro but the edge of India isn’t the edge of China

@donvitocascioferro4040

3 жыл бұрын

Lewis S yes it is. India share a border with China

@BeatMonkeyV5

3 жыл бұрын

Don Vito Cascioferro how does that mean the edge of China just because it shares a border with them? In that case the Macedonian empire also reached to the edge of Siberia

@donvitocascioferro4040

3 жыл бұрын

Lewis S Do you even understand the English language? When saying the edges of China he obviously means the Indian border with China as that’s where Alexander’s Empire stretched too.

I point my friends to this video if they ever say Boris Johnson is just like Ronald Trump. He may be a right wing populist, but he is more well read, more consistent, and more eloquent than President Trump could ever be.

@heardaboutit

4 жыл бұрын

Benghali In Platforms Yea clearly Donald Trump doesn’t have an inflated ego from a privileged youth.

@sian2337

4 жыл бұрын

They are both different people, with different talents, but it seems many lefties can’t see past the blonde hair.

@AABB-zb6dv

4 жыл бұрын

Corbyn is more of a populist than Boris. "Free stuff if you vote for me!!"

"A Roman Wilderness of Pain"...Jim Morrison A great debate... Boris Johnson is an amazing speaker, he really raised his points in favour of the Classical Greek Civilization over the Romans.

@jmitterii2

5 жыл бұрын

I think the point was the Romans did it better (they still suck by our standards). Athens even during the democracy only non-slave natural born Athenians could participate, and you often had the similar meltdown of what was essentially democratic meltdown to authoritarian like behavior similar to the French Terror. But to the point, which would be more hospitable: 1) Excluding Sparta, women would need to wear a vale when in public, and could not be near males in public similar to some Middle Eastern nations today. 2) It was extremely rare for a slave in Athens or any other city state to gain liberty, to no longer be a slave. Rome, it was customary and became customary to grant slaves their liberty. 3) Rome pushed for better civics and practical technological utilities like sewers, aqueducts, machinery for production of various goods and services like bakery, mills, olive oil production, etc. 4) Romans were more inclusive (of course in a subtle we still have to make that foreign thing into a Roman way of doing things too, where Athens just assumed other foreign methods were just barbarian ways, Sparta of course was the epitome of xenophobia as it was necessary to keep their weird concentration camp economy of Helot slaves vs Spartan slave master. While Athens invention of democracy is inspiring for us today, it's effectiveness in the way they used it demonstrated the need for constitutions that protect minorities and protect against mass panic induced bad law or suspension of various law like habeas corpus. Rome would be better to live in and provided much more in advancing civilization philosophically and technologically. The Greek city states, in particular Athens and the short period of the life of Alexander the Great's conquest... we got theater. We got the concept that government should be of and for and by the people; self government by majority rule; instead of hokey myths of an oligarchical set of families with tales of them being born of some divinity thus their excuse they they themselves should rule for the betterment first and foremost for their own families and it will just magically trickle down to the benefit of the rest of the people living in that government. They both were rotten compared to our standards, but to have advances in technology and sciences Rome did more in advancing them then the shorter period the Greek city states. I think Rome being essentially a band of misfits enjoyed the variety that was the Greek city states; hence the preservation of "Greek" culture by the Romans. It is in our time that we merge democracy with republic, and have been doing so with positive effects and growing technological and moral advances. The next step is to merge social-capital into a social-capital-democratic economic structure. With policies like Germany's co-determination policies that put 50% of the board are workers voted by workers. And concepts of co-op enterprises of which all employees have one vote to all aspects of the operation of the business. As well as a concept capital formation method being a Federal Reserve Co-Op Bank similar to National Reserve Banks of most countries that currently lend to private banks at a discounted rate to ensure their banking system is liquid; you could do the same for such co-ops to gain capital formation. Reducing the reliance on an aristocracy which throughout human history often act as do nothing parasites, that eventually capture whatever government that exists whenever it suits them.

@wilhelmhesse1348

5 жыл бұрын

@@jmitterii2 Some sources for anyone interested in the subject (that can easily be googled) say up to 500,000 people died in the Roman Colloseum (the Flavian Amphitheatre) over a period of 400 years, if we add the other deaths from across the vast empire in different "entertainment" arenas we are then looking at much higher figures. IMO, yes Rome acted as a great repository of Greek culture and greatly, greatly improved on it in most areas - Civil Engineering, Agriculture, Medicine, Marine Navigation, War Strategy, Law, Politics, Housing and Public Administration. Where the Greeks gave us the Great Philosophers the Romans gave us Stoicism equal and much more practical in every way. Maybe they the Romans did the same in depravity as well, they got the worst bits of Greek culture and went on to increase it exponentially in their own civilization. And thanks a million for that very insightful and educational reply I'm learning new things here and greatly appreciate it.

UK, Greece, Rome, France, Berlin, Ghent. Europe is a cradle of Ethics, Civilization, literature, arts, philosophy, science and of course politics. Thanking IQ for an another epic.

She managed to dismiss philosophy, science, theater, athletics, democracy and voting, etc, And to dismiss massacre of Christians, crusifictions, massacres of Gauls, massacre and destruction of the whole Carthage civilization, the gladiator killings etc with "Milos!" With a general idea about realism, liberte, and citizenship, (when citizens would not even vote for governance, so were not citizens), haha , magnificent work. About women, they were most free in Sparta which was superficially dismissed by her, as was dismissed the fact that American constitution had largely the Spartan political system as a role model of having equilibrium through juxtaposed political bodies. Good work with regard to a debate.

it really should be renamed Athens vs Rome

@Michaelmouse23

5 жыл бұрын

true he never mentioned Sparta, Corinth, Macedon all of which were monarchies and brutal ones of that.

@spemo1

5 жыл бұрын

@@Michaelmouse23 the problem is that the other greek cities and kingdoms didn't wrote some much as the athenians.

@Michaelmouse23

5 жыл бұрын

@@spemo1 I think Ioanian colonies and Syracuse both overlooked . HE could have mentioned them but yeah when we think about Classical Greece we mostly think about Pericles, Socrates, Aristotle, Plato etc not much is known from other Greek states.

@spemo1

5 жыл бұрын

@@Michaelmouse23 I totally agree

@Michaelmouse23

5 жыл бұрын

@@spemo1 what do you make of Christian Greece? After the arrival of the religion do you think Greece as an intellectual region ceased to exist?

Informative and entertaining. Ultimately it's the wrong question. European Civilization rests on both pillars. Athens and Rome!

@Broomtwo

4 жыл бұрын

Athens, Rome, and Jerusalem.

@quillo2747

4 жыл бұрын

And the staves of Uppsala

@Broomtwo

4 жыл бұрын

@DarkEternal6 you cannot deny Christianity is a massive part of the West

@FortuitusVideo

4 жыл бұрын

Athens and the Church of Rome define the West. Jerusalem plays no real part as it was lost to The West before Augustine died.

33:40 AHAAHAHAH just goes to show, it was a fun overexaggeration, Rome and Greece were both Fundamental and should never be put to comparison :) Greco-Roman Heritage, Not Roman Heritage or Greek Heritage. Together, or no western civ. :) But what an AMAZING debate. Thank YOU to the British, as an Italian, for doing this. The respecting of time and the relaxed ambience of the debate was amazing to watch, and i will link this video to anyone interested. Incredible job! :)

Find me a world leader that has his charm and knowledge. 🇬🇧 Proud to be british with him as our leader 🇬🇧

KZread has been recommending I watch this for weeks. Glad I finally decided to give it a go. Great performances on both sides!

It's kinda silly hypothetical question to begin with, comparing two different societies at different times. I would say the Romans beat the Greeks in the physical world (they did literally take over Greece) but the Greeks sort of conquered the Romans, in that they praised their culture and strived to be like Greece. But I enjoyed it.

@samrowbotham8914

5 жыл бұрын

Greece gave us Democracy The Romans gave us The Bible, Jesus Christ and Perpetual Empire based on never-ending war and Plato wept.

@1nairesiga

4 жыл бұрын

Well said

@MTCoblivsicas12345

2 жыл бұрын

@@samrowbotham8914 You sound as though from Monty Python sketch. What have the Romans ever done for us? Roads, Aqueducts, irregation, better education, better military organisation, greater diversity and inclusion in the Roman empire. Under floor heating, Baths, sewers meaning sanitation and less disease, stable cast coinage, treasury's and the first census.

Such a good debate! One of the best!

I vote for Mary and Rome !

Both speakers are really cool! Knowledge is the best heritage!

Why don't we have these kind of debates in the USA? Are we well less trained? Perhaps, if we don't study the classics.

@lewistaylor2858

5 жыл бұрын

because your not European maybe?

@JasTheKariol

5 жыл бұрын

@@lewistaylor2858 It would take a lot of time, first you would have to explain that these were not imaginary lands like Gotham city, then help them see where on the map they are located, and then explain different details such as "they did not have cable-tv" or "nike was a goddess and not a sneaker seller" etc etc....

@darthbricksempire3606

5 жыл бұрын

JasTheKariol Brilliant😂

@TheMrgoodmanners

5 жыл бұрын

@@JasTheKariol you win the internet

@jamako732

5 жыл бұрын

@@lewistaylor2858 This, sadly, is not a European thing but distinctly British. I would love to see events like this on the continent.

As an American who eschewed the news decades ago unless it's satirical or comedic, especially that of the British variety, my previous view of Boris Johnson has changed entirely. I'm glad I came upon this debate, thank you 🙏

No one could ever destroy friendship between italians and greeks.....we are cousins with french, but brothers with greeks

@mrh9635

2 жыл бұрын

What would Britain be, a delinquent nephew nobody talks about?

@michelefavaron8451

2 жыл бұрын

@@mrh9635 britain who? Is the same country we teached writing , while we were building the pantheom or the colosseum and in the meanwhile they were living in houses made with grass and animals escrements?

@mrh9635

2 жыл бұрын

@@michelefavaron8451 I think they deserve a bit more credit than that.

It's reaaaaally nice being half Italian and half Greek x)

@rugosetexture2716

5 жыл бұрын

You are lucky! :o)

@willamdafoe9300

4 жыл бұрын

The best mix in the world.

@Pipi-rq2hw

4 жыл бұрын

got any sisters - cousins?

@gogi3110

4 жыл бұрын

Alex Seferiades you got some cousins, sisters?

@bokai77

4 жыл бұрын

@@machinakos what?? LOL

Rome was incredible at military, whereas Greece contributed massively on matters of the intellect. Western scholasticism is based on Aristotle's metaphysics. I say that Rome won because without Roma, we would not have advanced nearly as quickly as we did. Edit: and Boris is a madlad

@imperator9767

4 жыл бұрын

Tell that to Achilles, then tell that to Alexander and then tell that to Themistocles and Leonidas.

@teseofabbri1812

4 жыл бұрын

@@imperator9767 Achilles never existed, Alexander was Macedon not Greek, Themistocles and Leonidas have made good defensive choices but it ends there.

@imperator9767

4 жыл бұрын

_ Giovi678 If I respond to a delusional uneducated cretin like you I might lose IQ points

@brandonburrell8517

4 жыл бұрын

@@teseofabbri1812 Wait. Achilles never existed, according to whom?

@brandonburrell8517

4 жыл бұрын

@Philip Manousakis I'm aware. Where does the idea that Illium didn't exist come from?

Thank you for this. Fascinating debate.

Without Greece , there is no Rome. It's as simple as that. Greece is Romes mother but with a hell of a lot more Class. Hands down its Greece. There shouldn't have even been a debate.

@theteamranbir

7 ай бұрын

Other way around. Rome preserved them. If it wasn't for Rome it is unlikely anything of Hellenistic Greek would have survived. Would have been destroyed by other invading parties.

@samartzis2000

7 ай бұрын

@@theteamranbir ohh I absolutely agree, Greece passed the torch. The Romans stood on the shoulders of giants and continued the culture. That's why they shouldn't debate on who was the best , the debate should have been how they both influenced the world. Ultimately there's always a rise and fall of great civilisations. It happened to Greece, then Rome and Great Britain.

very interesting and I really enjoyed this. Love listening to intelligent exchanges. Not enough of this on YT. Thank you for posting.

Boris' first speech was brilliant ...

@l.jboylan6704

5 жыл бұрын

@James Tea Church its a debate

@jwadaow

5 жыл бұрын

@James Tea Church Free market isn't buying your nonsense

@l.jboylan6704

5 жыл бұрын

@James Tea Church yeah, your supposed to try and win in a debate, as in say only the positives and fight the corner.

@thomassimmons1950

5 жыл бұрын

Should have been billed Globalist v. Nationalist with Classical flourish.

@jwadaow

4 жыл бұрын

@James D Robertson If McDonald's are substandard you are perfectly free to choose a Burger King School. In a government school the students learn to be like you.

The debate adversarial approach has the same weakness as our trial system - it puts the parties in opposition, which encourages them to selectively ignore facts. Truth, which is nuanced, is sacrificed for entertainment.

Of course, the Roman Empire had a longer lifespan than the Athenian Republic, but Mr. Johnson forgot about the continuation of the spread of Greek culture by Alexander the Great, a student of Aristotle, which reached as far as India. The Gospel was translated into Greek and not to Latin for the best spread of Christianity for this end Constantine the Great moved the seat of the Roman Empire from Rome to Constantinople which he had founded in place of the old city of Byzantium, a colony of the Megara. Sixty-five years later (395 AD), the Roman Empire split into the Western Roman Empire, based in Rome, which disappeared in 476 AD. and the Eastern Roman Empire based in Constantinople. However, it happened that the Multinational Empire included peoples who spoke mainly the Common Hellenistic language and lasted until 1453 AD. We can say that Greek Culture lasted about 2500 years and continues to this day by the modern Greek State with Athens as its capital and with official language Greek.

What a great debate, I could listen to these two nattering all day.

Bravo Boris!! (Greece)

Why “Vs”. We are brothers and sisters. Una faccia Una razza 🇮🇹 🇬🇷

@adamgillespie3393

3 жыл бұрын

Rome and old Greece is not the same as Italy and modern Greece. People like to be proud and compare ourselves to the old days of our countries but really it doesn't matter. Brothers and sisters now but back then we weren't

@Peterkonto

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamgillespie3393 Well southern Italy was heavily influenced by the ancient Greeks and even gave them the name Napoli which means new city in Greek..

@claudiamarianidamato9499

3 жыл бұрын

Adam Gillespie we say una faccia una razza “one face one race “because magna Grecia in the south of Italy was Comprised of multiple Greek colonies that were so significant that it left a genetic imprint on the people of southern Italian peninsula and Sicily , along with some places still speaking a dialect of Greek in the south . The Genetics of the people of southern Italy are very similar to Greece, Cyprus, and the Greek islands. so genetically we are close although of course there other slight variances . That is why we say that. Of course someone has to come and say something controversial with little understanding of the topic at hand , what’s new.

@claudiamarianidamato9499

3 жыл бұрын

Adam Gillespie also as we all know the Mediterranean civilizations had many ties to one another . The Greeks and the ancient etruscans of Italy as well as the Egyptians and romans all traded goods with one another and were heavily influenced by eachother

@marinus8824

3 жыл бұрын

@@claudiamarianidamato9499 😍🇬🇷🇮🇹

Mary is insatiably intelligent and knowledgeable. What an incredible debate to stumble upon. Although I feel Mary was more willing to die on her hill than Boris was. Boris understands the pivotal steps forward which Rome took that still shape our civilisation today as well as the steps taken by Greece. Mary, whilst also respecting Greece’s influence, seems to think Rome did most of the heavy lifting...

@innosanto

2 жыл бұрын

Boris didn't care so much to win the debate, he card to have an enjoyable debate and instructive one, and he felt that existence of democracy, was enough for a while debate. But Boris really managed this. He really made the debate very beautiful to watch and enjoy while if it was clearly about who would win maybe it would not be the enjoyable and instructive entertainment we got. So I am thankful to Boris for keeping a humorous bautiful and colourful debate.

@gumball135

Жыл бұрын

I suspect this is something that politicians learn in debate school. Compliment your opponent, concede that you agree with some of their points. Makes you look gracious and likable. Maybe I'm a cynic though.

l agree with Boris. Ethics defines a civilization and the Iliad is a fine exploration of it.

@saeedvazirian

5 жыл бұрын

Greeks had less ethical codes than the Persians...the Illiad is just a set of stories, it's not a book of ethics.

@hmldjr

5 жыл бұрын

@@saeedvazirian It evident you have never read the Iliad.

@timlamiam

4 жыл бұрын

Homeric ethics aren't necessarily all pure and chivalric though, is it... I.e. Is it ok to rebel against your overlord when he steals your prisoner of war sex slave? Is it ok to disappear for 20 years and then come home unannounced and kill every man who hit on your wife to earn her back?

@dibdap2373

4 жыл бұрын

@@timlamiam "is it okay to rebel against your overlord if he steals your prisoner of war sex slave?" Of course it is! That's my hard-earned war booty!

@davidallen6970

4 жыл бұрын

a narcissist like boris without an iota of morality. now a prime minister of a country without ethics

"Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit [...] et artes intulit agresti Latio." (Horace, 20 BC). There's no such thing as 'Greece vs Rome', Rome is Greek! Thank you Boris.

@duluoz8198

3 жыл бұрын

British that think to know what Rome was is always very amusing...Rome was not Greece at all

@chiararuocco2811

3 жыл бұрын

@walter cuperidge Actually there was many Greek colony in the south Italy before Roman empire. It was named Magna Graecia. As Italian I fell my roots are also Greek.

If the Macedonian Greek army had lost the wars against Persia. Classical Greece and Rome's history and maybe even todays Europe could have been a very different place..

...and people compare Boris to Trump....are you f*ing kidding me...xD

@dgc4059

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, the UK has the highest number of Cases in europe and it's and overall disgrace that has gotten worse since last year.

@dgc4059

3 жыл бұрын

Trump and Boris are both stupid assholes that are nocive to the societies they serve. No amount of fancy words can change this reality.

@dgc4059

3 жыл бұрын

@Tomakak You've gotta be kidding me, right?

@dgc4059

3 жыл бұрын

@Tomakak Boris is more popular than Trump and both are stupid and incompetent beyond belief.

@dgc4059

3 жыл бұрын

@Tomakak Jesus Christ, you're completely removed from reality.