Believe it or not, I was one of the main camera operators working on this debate and had the job covering the main shot of each speaker. Although it took place some time ago I still remember it vividly as a 'tour de force', particularly from Messrs Hitchins and Fry. I will not be forgetting this in a hurry!

@mushkamusic

2 жыл бұрын

I would have loved to have been there, just an absolute tour de force from Hitchens & Fry.

@elliottpilton8577

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, awesome work. Thabk you for your skill.

@londoncalling151

2 жыл бұрын

Who are you?

@oliclay1348

2 жыл бұрын

Thats so cool. I would have been electrified by stephens speech and presence

@rabidgremlin8367

2 жыл бұрын

To witness such a speech in your lifetime from this man must have be awe inspiring

This wasn't a debate... It was double homicide.

@luisurgelles2631

4 жыл бұрын

True, only people with evil hearts murder the innocent.

@frankskoda-simmons3432

4 жыл бұрын

So, let's comemorate with the Piano Concerto number 1.

@drrydog

4 жыл бұрын

dayum

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

@Ron dude.. The truth can never be put down.

@OwlFight

3 жыл бұрын

I think it is unfair for the side that was against: one of the speakers did not speak in his native language, and the other one has a voice that make me want to skip ahead a bit... I think they should have found an elequant catholic bishop/priest.

Additionally, the studies that were cited saying that condoms do not prevent HIV were outliers. The overwhelming medical consensus is that condoms are 90% effective in preventing HIV.

Ann Widdecombe truly is one of the most convincing proponents for secular atheism in Europe.

@kpl-CA

7 ай бұрын

A.W.'s entire speech was pomposity, vanity, arrogance, ego....and spittle decorated personal attacks against Hitch. But evidence? Nope. She's an example of Catholicism that will disgust and repulse any reasonable person. All she had to do was show the world the truth of her religion, and by revealing her vicious nature, she managed to drive thousands away. Good job, champ.

@andrewleah1983

6 ай бұрын

“Secular atheism” Is an oxymoron.

@RazorRamonElJefe

6 ай бұрын

I'm religious but man, her defence was so contradicting I got second hand embarrassment just listening to her.

@DrPsychoSexy

6 ай бұрын

Atheism is not a religion, just like not-believing in Santa Claus or smurfs is not a religion. If anything, 'secular atheism' is closer to a pleonasm.

@username7777771

6 ай бұрын

@@RazorRamonElJefe If you are in the same belief system as ann you should perhaps reconsider

So...a catholic priest and Dolores Umbridge got Hitchslapped and Deep Fry'd. That's what I get from this.

@chrisrye5

7 жыл бұрын

haha preach

@WTFM

7 жыл бұрын

xD

@jevicci

7 жыл бұрын

Who's Dolores Umbridge?

@adamhunter1223

7 жыл бұрын

Harry potter villain

@BigM33100

7 жыл бұрын

She's a villian from Harry Potter who was ultra conservative and a total cunt.

Bishop's points: 1) The Catholic Church is nice because my dad believed in it. 2) We do charity.

@aretrograde7745

5 жыл бұрын

Ya I would agree, the bishop's points were not very strong. I don't think he knew who his opposition was. He wasn't there to give a homily, he was there to go to war.

@frantisekzverina473

5 жыл бұрын

Dont forget repeating church IS good as a dogma

@AreMullets4AustraliansOnly

5 жыл бұрын

And 3: there are lots of catholics

@holymaryfullofshit3790

5 жыл бұрын

@@AreMullets4AustraliansOnly jup interesting how he points that out thinking its an argument for beeing good. i mean how?

@hiimspee828

5 жыл бұрын

@@aretrograde7745 It makes me wonder if he has ever heard people so denounce his church, indeed if knows much of it's history.

Stephen Fry is one of the most powerful speakers I have ever heard and yet there is never an ounce of maliciousness in anything about which he speaks. I wish I had his grasp of the English language and knowledge.

@tbrowniscool

8 ай бұрын

This is S Tier English, incredible selection of words to accurately get his point across with no filler. Incredible speech and full of passion and zeal.

@DB-qw6xq

8 ай бұрын

Fry has been extremely nasty about religion and in particular the Christian faith!

@tbrowniscool

8 ай бұрын

@@DB-qw6xq Good! Religion is delusional

@haydencarn8737

8 ай бұрын

@@DB-qw6xq Would you call the people who call Epstein a pedo "nasty"? No, because they are just correct, and so is he.

@dtkp33355

8 ай бұрын

@@haydencarn8737What happens to your argument here if @DB-qw6xq does call Epstein's critics "nasty"?

I love how during Anne's argument, Christopher is just quietly writing a tome of rebuttals

@joemathis6551

9 ай бұрын

Yes, as I said, above, I would love to see all the notes.

@tracygallagher4632

8 ай бұрын

Did you see Anne widdecombe constantly speaking over Hitchens & Fry? The only reason she failed to interrupt them was her mic was turned off.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

2 ай бұрын

​@@tracygallagher4632yes.... But she's still alive and thriving today while Hitch is toast and Fry is a drooling idiot.

@thegoodgeneral

2 ай бұрын

That’s how a debate should be. You listen to what your opponent says and you take notes to properly come back to address their points.

1:23:15 was a really good one "you accused Hitchens of judging the church by the standards of the time, but surely the truth in your doctrines is eternal or its not"

@feartheghus

4 жыл бұрын

L B there are plenty of good reasons to lie

@neiloch

4 жыл бұрын

@L B "made murder immoral" yeah because it was okie dokie free for all before the catholic church. No one any where got in trouble for killing people on the grounds its not a nice thing to do. They sure as hell made strides in the art of protecting their followers from the punishments of child rape, though. The point is there isn't a SINGLE good thing they or any religion did that couldn't have been done WITHOUT religion. Their wholly unique contributions range from unnecessary to outright crimes against humanity.

@dearatlas4222

4 жыл бұрын

@@neiloch Neiloch religion was the foundation of society. It was the explanation before science existed, it was what brought people together. Technically religion created today's society if you take it from history perspective. So.. today's society wouldn't exist without religion. I think just this was a good thing and you can't just say ''no it didnt'' because 4000 years of history are some sort of proof to me.

@MrTheanimekiller

4 жыл бұрын

Dear Atlas right if religion didn't create today's society we would be so much further ahead and not still debating whether religion is good or bad or if we should stop the fundamentalist that are trying to make America a theocracy. Would have killed a lot less free thinkers and witches too. Man the satanic panic wouldn't have happened. we wouldn't have people trying to teach creationism homophobic bigotry in school and being surprised when the parents stand up against it and sue. History shows that when religion takes over many humans die and your rights are greatly infringed upon. When you have a theocracy based on a "religion of peace" humanity, morals, and treating others as you would treat yourself die and in their place is resurrected suspicion, superstitious ignorance, anti science, immoral silencing of any dissent, and misogynistic rules against women

@dearatlas4222

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrTheanimekiller We dont know if society would be further ahead. You can guess at best but you can't be sure. But surely the advance of religion in ancient societies is completely logical. No matter how many times you go back religion will always be a foundation.

Sometimes I think my voice is annoying so I listen to Ann Widdicombe to make myself feel better

@kkgauthier

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine her trying to speak seductively. I would pay good money to see that.

@billisaac326

3 жыл бұрын

@@kkgauthier Especially to David Beckham.

@0142Jason

3 жыл бұрын

She sounds like a Monty Python character.

@anonUK

3 жыл бұрын

@@0142Jason Strangely, her retirement from politics started about the time the now late Python Terry Jones sadly lost the ability to speak. Coincidence?

@taurtue

3 жыл бұрын

@@0142Jason Haha exactly. Sounds like a Python's guy trying to sound like a woman.

I return to this on Jan 4th 2024 and it brings me no end of joy and real hope for a brave new year. We have seen the way to change our troubled world. It's with grace, heart, intelligence , and courage. Strive on, brothers and sisters.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 ай бұрын

To which side of the debate do you refer?

@T.N.H.

4 ай бұрын

Well they said "intelligence" so that should tell you

@souler__

3 ай бұрын

You think the world as a whole learned something from this random debate, enough to give you hope for it? Wait, no, YOU learned a lesson from it that tells us how to fix the world? How do you even boil down the myriad of issues to, what, just religion? Reason? Empathy? Strive toward what? Whatever this is, it sounds more delusional than religion to be honest. Not to mention incoherent, I have to strawman you to see any substance in the statement.

@finn6364

2 ай бұрын

​@@wolfthequarrelsome504hes just wishing all of us a good new year Dors it matter which side hes on??

Man, just listening to Hitchens and Fry really helps me restore some sanity in these crazy times full of misinformation and extremists

@GlowingMpd

10 ай бұрын

👍

@TerlinguaTalkeetna

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, one has to find some way to feel some joy and relief from what now is! Reason and intelligence is fun, wish more folks would improve their neighborhood by trying it out. Asking a bit much to find it in the comment sections these days.

I would like an apology for Ann's voice

@Jordan-mc8ig

5 жыл бұрын

Nails on a chalkboard

@vincentpol

5 жыл бұрын

It's one thing if you're a false singer, but a false speaker?

@Revan9729

5 жыл бұрын

Me to,but more so,I would like an apology for her presence.

@deansligh3759

5 жыл бұрын

I was looking for this comment, just to thumbs up

@Plant_Parenthood

5 жыл бұрын

She sounds like an old set of windshield wipers

*Opening statements:* Archbishop John Onaiyekan: 2:14 Christopher Hitchens: 14:05 Ann Widdecombe: 34:45 Stephen Fry: 48:11

@helmethead72

8 жыл бұрын

+Sharwul Doesn't that reveal the intellectual content of the contributors?? The Catholic Church has hundreds of billions of euros, or dollars or pounds in it's vaults. What would the Prince of Peace have to say about this??

@Sharwul

8 жыл бұрын

LOL

@keiranbradley3222

8 жыл бұрын

+helmethead72 " I've just been tortured then nailed to a tree & i'm in need of some serious medical attention, can you give me some cash for the hospital " !!!!. i think he would say something along those lines.

@helmethead72

8 жыл бұрын

Keiran Bradley Interesting to discover that not long after this verbal thrashing by Christopher and Stephen, the Archbishop was made a cardinal by Pope Benedict and served at conclave which brought about the arrival of Pope Francis. The same Pope who is now the world's favourite leader, neat job by the Vatican eh? Get rid of the child abuse appeaser and get rid of all the accusations in one fell swoop.

@keiranbradley3222

8 жыл бұрын

helmethead72 The Hierarchy of RCC is indeed as the sleazy the political whores of the secular camp, they are pathetic.

Holy sh*t. That last vote left me speechless. That's wasn't even close lol. We need more of these two gentlemen collabing. Well done!

@antdah

8 ай бұрын

Sadly, Hitch has been dead now for well over a decade.

@mpetrie

5 ай бұрын

Whoever did the mathematical percentage differences needs to be fired, though. They weren't even close to being accurate.

@TalesStahl

4 ай бұрын

​@@mpetrie i was confused for a moment too. The percentage is from the total not from the original voters. They lost 410 people that is ca. 20 % of the 2126 people that voted. Its mathematically right but an awefull way of showing the change. They went from 32% Support to 12% Support.

@mpetrie

4 ай бұрын

@@TalesStahl Ohhh.... okay, then that makes sense. But yes... it was a bizarre way to show it. Thank you for the clarification.

@thegoodgeneral

2 ай бұрын

A little difficult to get them to collaborate again with dear old Hitch dead and buried.

I was astounded when confronted by a direct question by the moderator, with no where to run to and hide, the archbishop simply said ‘that is not the right question to ask’ - absolutely disgraceful - and laughable.

@Leszek.Rzepecki

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny!

Hitchens: *Walks to the podium* The rest of the room: Why can I hear boss music?

@thomasmurrell7781

3 жыл бұрын

For some reason i seemed to hear the theme tune from 'Rocky' in my head lol

@kabirchattopadhyay533

3 жыл бұрын

*Hitch walks in* Okay. Damn that is an impossible boss....But its alright, maybe if I just use all my health potions and buffs, with a bit of luck I may be able to... *Fry joins him* Okay I'm dead. Might as well just logout now to avoid the embarrassment.

@indoor_gangster

3 жыл бұрын

something by Parliament-Funkadelic would be fantastic!

@user-jx2ei1kh4q

3 жыл бұрын

@@kabirchattopadhyay533 what the f are you lot on about

@zaypierson6255

3 жыл бұрын

Hitchens is a fool and so is the bishop.. Catholicism IS NOT CHRISTIANITY

Fry and Hitchens take the English language to its absolute pinnacle. It is a joy to listen to them.

@Inigo_The_Son

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile, here in the USA..... By age 5, my daughters (now adults) were already correcting their teachers on the proper use of "I" and "me." After a few years, we had to tell them to just hold their tongues, because none of their teachers ever learned to speak English properly. It is such a treat to hear people who have truly mastered the language. I think I know our language better than most, but Christopher's vocabulary is so immense that he often forces me to consult the dictionary. I should also point out that the Bishop has excellent command of the language, though his subject matter is simply nonsense.

@genghiskhan7041

Жыл бұрын

I especially like Hitch's very poorly disguised contempt for the Church :D

@peterhall728

Жыл бұрын

@@genghiskhan7041 I don't think he tried to hide it at all actually. It was out there. Front and centre.

@bpitch1071

Жыл бұрын

The Catholic Church cannot be a force for good, as it’s foundation principles are antithetical to all good. It is a system of power, and coercion. Individuals within the organization can be a force for good, but that is in spite of the organization, not because of it.

@Inigo_The_Son

Жыл бұрын

@@bpitch1071 I am actively involved with a charity providing education in Africa. Our basic task is to overcome all the damage done by the catholic church over the past few hundred years.

Stephens face when Anne says " its not about condoms, its about the physical relief of the poor". amazing comedy

@sabrinaschulz9825

6 ай бұрын

I burst out laughing!

@wolfthequarrelsome504

2 ай бұрын

I get your point ( do you find that's funny too?) A human is a thinking creature, at least some of us are anyway. But we're always presented with a choice. You can choose the "narrow path" of self discipline to what you believe lead to right reason. Or let your mind wander in every direction. It's called "a moral compass" or lack thereof. Sexual immorality is a wild beast if you let it gain control of your thoughts. It will do more damage to yourself and others than you can ever imagine in your present naivety.

1:45:32 "Ever since I discovered that my god-given male member was going to give me no peace, I decided to give it no rest in return." Christopher, we miss you dearly.

It's been said a lot, but it's like watching supercomputers battle fridge magnets

@billlyons7024

10 ай бұрын

Good one.

@MarlboroughBlenheim1

3 ай бұрын

That's harsh on magnets

@signwriter1

Ай бұрын

@@MarlboroughBlenheim1 My son who is 31 now has never accepted any form of religion, and he tells me - never argue with a person of religion - you are wasting your time - he is a very wise man.

@MarlboroughBlenheim1

Ай бұрын

@@signwriter1 except there are many who have deconverted after listening to the arguments against it - which is why atheists do debates. It's not about persuading the opponent. It's about the people listening in the audience.

“Its hard to be told I’m evil, because I am full of love.” That hit hard

@jacksynth271

4 жыл бұрын

yeah boy love, he's a sick man

@bjornyesterday2562

4 жыл бұрын

@@jacksynth271 judge much?

@langa77777

4 жыл бұрын

Borderfox would you like some boy love? I can boy love you any time you’d like mate.

@jacksynth271

4 жыл бұрын

Mitchuation all you creeps and peados coming out of the woodwork to defend rich and famous creeps and peados because you think they can somehow validate your pathetic existence. You think you're the enlightened ones because you regurtitate what some Oxford educated nonce says. Use your brain for once, Hitchens and his ilk are fake intellectuals who make their living off being contrarions as if they know better than the everyone else. Their audience comprises of New Age degenerates like yourself who advocate all sorts of moral depravity. Professing to be wise they became fools

@zer-op2gq

4 жыл бұрын

@@jacksynth271 cast all the stones you wish; just don't hide behind child rapists to hold your high ground

Fourteen years later and the Catholic Church still doesn't get it.

@afterlate8866

3 ай бұрын

And you do?

@theworldaccordingto4555

Ай бұрын

Neither does Ann Widde. She is about as Christian as Abu Hamza. She is much much more an Old Testament believer... She is a religious extremist. She has little in common with the teachings of the New Testament.

@seanpritchard582

Ай бұрын

No. They pretend not to get it!

@sparky3006

3 күн бұрын

And hitch is in hell and fry is fried

Tell my ancestors, who were murdered by the Spanish Inquisition or forced to convert to Catholicism, that the church is a force for good!🤬

@wolfthequarrelsome504

2 ай бұрын

Were they murdered after they were forced to convert or before they converted, in which case they weren't forced to convert? See how stupid your opposition to the truth had made you?

@elegast1819

Ай бұрын

Tell that to the ancestors of the neighbouring peoples that massacred your ancestors until the Church brought them the True Faith.

@jamesandrews8698

15 күн бұрын

​@@elegast1819 you do realize that both can be true... or wrong as it were. 20000 frenchmen and all that

The entire Q&A section was a train wreck. "I'm going to take two dozen questions, please keep them to 15 seconds, then I will ask the panel to deal with them all in one go over a couple of minutes." Who thought that was a good format?

@oldskoolorion9648

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly my thoughts.. amateurish approach which should and could have been executed far better by the organisator. Written questions should have been send in and preselected for the panel and the time wasted going over the audience could have been allotted for extra rebuttals for the panel pro and con, in regards to issued raised by their first timeslot statements.

@oldskoolorion9648

5 жыл бұрын

nevertheless impressive insights and statements by Hitchens and Frye - those alone made it a great watch :-)

@bobjoe109

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the worst part was how she would take a random number of questions between like 2 and 10 and then expect them to reply to them all. Also it's clear they didn't plan enough time for questions lol.

@neiloch

4 жыл бұрын

Seems like a format set up so each person has a better chance of having a strong argument by almost skipping the ones they find hard and concentrating on the ones they like. Debate by buffet or some shit. maybe it was set up as an attempt at a handicap in favor for Archbishop John Onaiyekan and Ann Widdecombe since the organizers knew they would get crushed.

@thegoodgeneral

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, they should have had someone curating audience questions.

Oh no. The Bishop was a very bad salesman.... I really didn't hear a reason why the Catholic Church is force of good. It was a dull, lifeless presentation.

@kozhedub

7 жыл бұрын

I would have a hell of a time defending the church too

@00Kunai

7 жыл бұрын

All of you are lemmings

@jan3211200

5 жыл бұрын

Is it weird i heard "my father was brainwashed into a cult member and im also brainwashed"

@ragingmollusk2640

Ай бұрын

dull and lifeless like the church

This debate is slightly more one-sided than the World Cup qualifier where Australia beat American Samoa 31-0.

@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt

3 ай бұрын

Why was it more one sided, explain

@GlowingMpd

3 ай бұрын

@@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt If you don’t get it, I think you need to watch it beginning to end about 4 times🤷🏼‍♀️👋😇

@GlowingMpd

3 ай бұрын

👍

"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." Voltaire

Hitch and Fry together? The opposition didn't stand a chance!

@rebelaxesix3496

7 жыл бұрын

Nope. They would have had a far better chance bobbing for fries & coming out unburned because Fry & the Hitch definitely put the burn on their ass.

@JustSomeGoy

7 жыл бұрын

ask any religious person if they fear death, if death means heaven why would anyone be scared? they can just ask for forgiveness if they didn't before they died, suicide would be fixing our population problem...and our idiot problem

@brendanbutler1238

7 жыл бұрын

That's right, the opposition didn't stand a chance with that level of artful deception and the British public's ignorance.

@thorsten8790

7 жыл бұрын

Religious people are afraid of death. They won't admit it, but they are.

@brendanbutler1238

7 жыл бұрын

People who believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow are just afraid of it not rising. They won't admit it, but they are.

Hitchens swinging at the Catholic Church for Stephen Fry here, will remain one of my absolute favorite memories of our human species. RIP Christopher, and thank you for your heart and wisdom.

@wowisthatgami8293

Жыл бұрын

For shame! For shame!

@NetworkSneed

Жыл бұрын

wdym "RIP" ?

@guardingdark2860

Жыл бұрын

@@NetworkSneed RIP is an acronym for "Rest In Peace"

@NetworkSneed

Жыл бұрын

@@guardingdark2860 dk what he means by 'resting' he's dead.

@guardingdark2860

Жыл бұрын

@@NetworkSneed It's a poetic phrase, it's not meant to be literal.

When you see Hitchens taking notes with a wry smile on his face, you know you're gonna be boiled alive.

The Bishop said an outright lie in his closing statement. Referring to the role of Catholicism in the Rwandan genocide, he said most Rwandans were Muslims. In fact, only 10% are Muslims. Most perpretators were Christian, and primordially Cathlolic, and led by priests and nuns.

@AlexsGoogleAccount

5 ай бұрын

The Archbishop said a lot of outright lies. Just one year before this debate, he backed anti-gay legislation in Nigeria that: 1. Criminalizes anyone in a same-sex marriage or civil union, with a 14 year prison sentence. 2. Criminalizes all public displays of affection between same-sex couples, with a 10 year prison sentence. 3. Criminalizes anyone who performs a same-sex marriage or in any way assists a gay couple to enter into a civil union, with a 10 year prison sentence. 4. Criminalizes all pro-LGBTQ organizations and anyone who participates in them, including gay bars, societies, and advocacy groups, with a 10 year prison sentence. 5. Allows charges can be brought against anyone who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights. This can even extend to relief groups for HIV/AIDS outreach. 6. Allows charges can be brought against co-habiting homosexuals, even if there is no evidence of sexual activity between them. Catholic leaders in Africa today (and across the whole world historically) are driving mass incarceration of gay people and their allies, giving them life sentences and even exectuing them. And time and time again the Vatican has refused to denounce it.

The only thing that never got a proper comeback from Hitch and Stephen was the idea that in countries where condoms are promoted HIV cases don't reduce. I just kept wanting them to say something like, "yes, in AIDS-ravaged countries condoms are promoted by under-funded organisations. However, in the same countries, the over-funded Catholic Church preaches that condoms cause AIDS." But now I've got that off my chest I can relax. Even if no-one actually reads this.

@papercup2517

6 жыл бұрын

I read it, and I thank you for clarifying the point.

@sarveshlobana8573

6 жыл бұрын

yup, i read it too and now i feel enlightened :)

@thibaultmallier3756

6 жыл бұрын

Read and agreed my friend, and I felt the same. Thanks for that.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

To say that condoms causes AIDS is illogical nonsense and you just said that. Promiscuity causes AIDS.

@nedwhitney4123

3 жыл бұрын

Five years later: it's still being read 😊

Don’t miss next competition where Bishop and Anne take on Federer and Nadal at Wimbledon

@eminem2

3 жыл бұрын

Perfectly portrays the missmatch, thank you!

@DocTight

3 жыл бұрын

hahahahhaa :D

@kylehardy8562

3 жыл бұрын

I think they’d stand a better chance

@seancullen99

3 жыл бұрын

They may actually score a point in that one.

@spencera1129

3 жыл бұрын

Haha well put

This was a slaughter. They quite literally could not have chosen two of the worst "Defenders of the Catholic Church" if they tried. Anne Widdecombe is incredibly hard to take. A cold woman who reminds me of the Evil Stepmother in a Disney animation, and the poor, hapless Bishop who obviously has zero debate skills and relies on homilies. And just a side note, listening to Stephen Frye speak is an utmost pleasure.

@obnoxiouspriest

7 ай бұрын

Couldn't agree more. Kind of broke my heart when the bishop said his family was one of the first converts from whatever their indigenous beliefs were. The Catholic Church is truly soul sucking.

@marpfel

4 ай бұрын

Well, English is not his first language, maybe not even his second or third, so I'm willing to cut him some slack for that. Nevertheless, they could have picked someone better.

@paramidge8935

4 ай бұрын

I think - post colonialism that English is, for all practical purposes, his first language.@@marpfel

@DavidGreen_au

2 ай бұрын

Interesting point about the Bishop. He was well out of his class in this debate. And Anne was not capable of casting a good impression on anything. Their debate side was doomed to failure from the start.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

2 ай бұрын

Funny thing the Anne is still politically active in her 80s and the bishop likewise within the church. Whereas Hitchens is long dead and Fry is a drooling wreck. Both much younger also. Being wrong is a burden repayable not just in the next life, it appears.

If I were a gay man I would have spent the entirety of my life trying to get Stephen Fry to marry me. Holy shit. And hats off as always to Hitch, too, he is sorely missed these days.

@GuitarBloodlines

10 ай бұрын

he's only missed by pseudo intellectuals and nu-atheists

@SunlessSage

10 ай бұрын

​@@GuitarBloodlines That's kind of harsh, especially considering he left behind friends and family.

@thomasmurrell6908

10 ай бұрын

@@SunlessSage Did you expect anything better from a Catholic, their history tells the truth of what they are.

Fry's delivery of "then what are you for?" from 1:25:55 - 1:26:02 is one of the most powerful moments of any debate I've ever seen.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

Жыл бұрын

Easily answered. But fry showed his frustration at the teaching of the church which he knows doesn't condone his homosexual activity.

@ourotayuun

Жыл бұрын

It's honestly something that's stuck with me for years since I first watched this. It's the most succinct and scathing condemnation. Rewatching this tonight, I thought maybe I'd misremembered and embellished the moment in my own mind, but no. It now, as before, reads to me with such... consternation, indictment, even pleading. This singular moment... is such a perfect expression that it breaks my heart.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

Жыл бұрын

@@ourotayuun He's obviously angry with the righteous position of the church on immoral sex which he himself champions. His bad.

@Rio-zh2wb

Жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504moron

@anushkasekkingstad1300

Жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 which aspect of homosexual sex do you imagine to be immoral and why do you consider it so?

Let's face it, you're here to listen to Hitchens and Fry while reading the comments

@caraame

3 жыл бұрын

ohhh yeah!

@DukeLitoAurelius

3 жыл бұрын

Yup!

@paulharding1972

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. 👍

@ronhightower3771

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's fair

@markfoz7248

3 жыл бұрын

Spot on

So the priest's arguments to demonstrate that the church is a good institution are: -Because otherwise he would not be part of it (and he has been in it for many years, without regretting it) -Because his family is believers - Because there are believers everywhere you look - Because he does charity ? Is this the best that this institution can defend itself with?

@GlowingMpd

3 ай бұрын

👍

Bringing Stephen Fry to a debate is like bringing a rocket launcher to a boxing match.

Christopher Hitchens: *talks about the churches atrocities during ww2, their horrible position in Rwanda, their condemnation of gays and their pedofile priests* Ann Widdecombe: "it is interesting that he had to go all the way back to the crusades to find something wrong" Uhm.. Did you fall asleep or something?

@TortillaChip521

5 жыл бұрын

The fact that the atrocities of the Catholic church date back several hundred years should be eye-opening

@91Durktheturk

4 жыл бұрын

The catholic church did not commit atrocities during ww2. Rather, it was nazism, an atheist ideology that committed all these atrocities. Further, in the 20th century we also had communism, maoism, fidel Castro, pol pot, who all slaughtered millions based on an atheist ideology.

@Great.Dane.

4 жыл бұрын

@@91Durktheturk Interesting then, that the German soldiers had belt buckles with the inscription: "Gott mit uns". Quite atheist yes... Their ideology was not fueled by belief or disbelief in god however. Communism on the other hand was definitely fueled by atheism to a certain extent. There are many shades of communism, but the only kinds that have been turned into governments were mostly authoritarian, in countries with great poverty, great unrest and/or with a history of great repression of it's people. The Russian zar while a Christian did not do much good for the Russian people either.

@91Durktheturk

4 жыл бұрын

@@Great.Dane. ***Interesting then, that the German soldiers had belt buckles with the inscription: "Gott mit uns". Quite atheist yes...*** Which is what German soldiers had on their belt for long before Nazism started. The German army was also a seperate institution from Nazism. You can therefore not conclude based on a belt that nazism was not atheist. Also, plenty of historical evidence that Nazism was basically an atheist creed, Hitler’s views as an atheist are well known and documented, as well as the atheist views of other high ranked Nazi’s. You would have to ignore all that evidence.... It is also well documented that the Nazi’s had plans to eradicate the church. ***Their ideology was not fueled by belief or disbelief in god however.**** Actually it was. It was based on beliefs that could only exist in an atheist framework, such as social darwinism, eugenetics, beliefs that were shared with progressive atheists in other countries in the 1930s, such as Britain. ***Communism on the other hand was definitely fueled by atheism to a certain extent. There are many shades of communism, but the only kinds that have been turned into governments were mostly authoritarian, in countries with great poverty, great unrest and/or with a history of great repression of it's people.*** In the beginning of the 1900s you could say about most countries that they had a history of repressing their own people. So not a very useful standard don’t you think? Also, funnily enough, Russia was a democracy after the February revolution, before Germany, frightened by that prospect of a powerful democratic Europe, send Lenin back to Russia. The rest is history..... Also, communism is authoritarian by its very nature. ***The Russian zar while a Christian did not do much good for the Russian people either.*** That really depends on the tsar. Peter the Great did lots of good things for Russia, and was deeply religious. Tsar Alexander the II was also a great tsar, who did many good things for the Russians. The last tsar however was incompetent.

@rmdomainer9042

4 жыл бұрын

@@91Durktheturk "The catholic church did not commit atrocities during ww2" How about after? All that kiddy-fucking has gone on into modern time. And the Catholic church was instrumental in spiriting genocidal maniacs abroad, like Franz Stangl, to find asylum in fascist states in South America and the Middle East.

Hitchens as sharp as a razor blade tore the church to pieces, but it was Fry who reached out to my soul and moved it to its core, because while Hitch disassembled from a intellectual standpoint, Fry did as well but also poored his soul into it, conveying indeed how personally important this topic is to him and therefore moved me. What an absolute treasure this man and what a priviledge to hear him speak at any time including this one.

@late8641

2 жыл бұрын

I can't get enough of Fry. When it comes to rhetorics and making language an artform, Fry is second to none.

@johnfox9939

Жыл бұрын

I couldn’t agree more, well put, Sir !

@wolfthequarrelsome504

Жыл бұрын

@@late8641 I'm not quite sure what you mean, is it in an kind of a Bertrand Russell kind of way? (Russell was also a homosexual and freemason but I have no evidence that he was a practising homosexual and fraudster like your hero, fry)

@wolfthequarrelsome504

Жыл бұрын

how does he rate on truth and honesty? How about family values? 😆

@2LucasKane3

Жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 One can have family values without god. Also, they are open for debate and values always change. Only in the dogmatic narrow view of religion must values remain the same no matter how far society progresses. But of course, these same people see progress as something bad. I however am glad, that we are now at a time where we can have people live out their lifes as they see fit within the boundaries of law and not religion. I am happy that people can express their sexuality however they see fit as long as it is with another consenting adult. I am happy that today, the word family can have any meaning and not just man and woman. Religion always restricts and never frees. You ask for truth and honesty? We life in an age where truth can be determined by science and is no longer a matter of bronze age books written by backwards sheepherders. One can look at many apologist videos here on KZread to see that truth and honesty is a tool rarely used by those who are religious. Religion is a poinson and a cancer of this world and I am happy when it is finally cut out.

Stephen Fry is brilliant in this debate. What a stunning speaker

The saddest part is the two pro church people walked away from this, not learning that they need to change, but blaming the other side. Own your mistakes, fix your errors.

Ann: our opponents always bring up these things Stephen: we bring these things up because they matter

@ferdinandries7232

3 жыл бұрын

Stephen had the kindest message

@maxINaus

3 жыл бұрын

Nothing matters if we're here by random chance.

@NeonUlti

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxINaus not true, its just not unconditional, for instance i am here by random chance, but id die in an instant to protect my family, because although completely random, they raised me, they took care of me, they taught me and made me the person i am, the randomness of the universe means we get to give things value from our own perspectives, not just things are special because an almighty god created them.

@konvicti94

3 жыл бұрын

black lives matter

@AdmiralBison

3 жыл бұрын

because the Catholic Church keeps sweeping it under the rug.

Fry quoted Ann's own remarks and proved she used incorrect information. Hitchens and Fry ripped apart these two.

@fransmith3255

3 жыл бұрын

Haha! Never debate theology against a very devout and intelligent atheist. They often know the bible and can quote it better than the devout religious person. How often does that happen, lol!!!

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

He got it wrong. So he tore nothing except his own argument. She never mentioned "nation" state.

@michaeldobson107

3 жыл бұрын

​@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Irrelevant. Widicombe and the Archbishop were lambs to the slaughter, pure and simple, (regardless of your belief or disbelief.) The Atheists sent along two of their strongest speakers and intellects, while the Church sent along an Archbishop and Anne Widicombe. The outcome was preordained.

@EdgeOfEntropy17

3 жыл бұрын

@@fransmith3255 You base this on one debate? I implore you to watch any debate with James White against atheists and then see if you come away with that same outlook. The atheists in those debates make fools of themselves because they THINK they know more than White.

@fransmith3255

3 жыл бұрын

@@EdgeOfEntropy17 Hehe, made fools of themselves?? They WON the debate! That's hardly 'made fools' of themselves. The audience, even much of the self-stated religious people, voted for Steven Fry's team. Did you actually watch the video? The audience viewpoint was tested prior and after the debate - people in the audience who agreed with Steven's side actually INCREASED post debate, lol! Just because you don't agree with their viewpoint, that doesn't automatically mean they made fools of themselves. You need to learn to look at situations such as these without your religious bias. We all have biases, but you need to put your personal biases aside when judging these situations. Religious people also sometimes make great points, but these two, on this night, were just completely outclassed. Against other less capable debaters, perhaps they would have come up top, but not in this case, and no unbiased mind could fail to see that.

Imagine believing that it was possible to transubstantiate a wafer and wine into the body and blood of Christ, but a flesh and blood woman cannot REPRESENT Christ. Imagine being taught that male and female were made in God’s imagine, that Christ was God made flesh, yet still women cannot represent God through the priesthood. It’s fascinating from an atheist’s perspective how so much Catholic dogma disintegrates with no other argument than pointing out the contradictions within their own sacred text.

@markrichter2053

6 ай бұрын

Good logic. It’s very sad though.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

2 ай бұрын

How are transubstantiation, a definition of the 12th century and the 6th century tradition of the non ordination of women to the priesthood even remotely related, for you to form that conclusion?

@JaredBrownAtLarge

11 күн бұрын

​@@wolfthequarrelsome504Perhaps not exactly related but what Jude obviously means is that on the one hand they are willing to believe something so entirely insane to be reality, while on the other hand, their willingness to embrace utter supernatural madness doesn't quite stretch to allowing women to represent Christ, simply because they are women.

Archbishop's speech was literally out of a school classroom, nice sounding emotive language without any actual substance (I think he provided one actual statistic of 26% to back up the claim that the church is actually doing something) and then hilariously linking every single point back to the punchline "the church is a force for good" as if trying to score extra marks from the teacher 😂

@Psychokeal

6 ай бұрын

😂😂I am watching this for the first time and what you just said is exactly what came to my mind before I saw your comment

@craigmckenzie4967

2 ай бұрын

His closing argument is just irritating. He’s saying “we need to find out what the church actually says about condoms and women and homosexuality” as if he isn’t an archbishop?? Why can’t he clear the air? Then he claims that it was the Muslims who caused the Rwandan genocide when there were CATHOLIC bishops and priests on public radio actively supporting the slaughter? Brutal.

45:35 "And condoms; they came in the end." If she meant to make that pun, it would have been a groaner. But because she obviously had no idea, it's gold.

@thomasmurrell7781

3 жыл бұрын

I must admit i let out a laugh when she said that.

@seankelly378

3 жыл бұрын

Whether conscious or not , she did deliver it perfectly like Leslie Nielsen 🤣

@derekfranklin1868

3 жыл бұрын

Does she have to use one on her vibrator or does blindfolding it suffice?

@maxinator80ify

3 жыл бұрын

I love Stevens face during the following sentences.

@WilliamsDinis

3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant

"the only ones obsessed....anorexics and morbidly obese.....and that, in a nutshell, is the catholic church". this is one of those fry moments that will last eternally. chapeau.

@humanrevelations1949

3 жыл бұрын

Says the fat suicidal

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

Some ego to assume he could fit the Catholic Church into a nutshell...lol

Imagine being asked to debate against Fry and Hitchens and deciding that it's a good idea.

@Loddfafnisodr

6 ай бұрын

Agreed, one shouldn't waste time debating with shitlords.

@iansmith2013

6 ай бұрын

Came here to say exactly this. Even the mere fact that I am to be debating against them would make me think again about what I believe in.

@evas.6003

5 ай бұрын

Eek aye, you'd almost feel sorry for them. Almost....

im for the motion that Christopher Hitchens was a force for good in the world. sadly missed.

@lespaul5734

5 жыл бұрын

si The only correct statement you made is that he supported the Iraq war. The rest is pure dishonesty, or a complete strawman of his opinions... It’s pathetic how people still use childish and dishonest debating tactics!

@kennethking8091

5 жыл бұрын

​@@si4632 He supported the Iraq war, yes. He did not start it nor fire a single weapon. I don't know his marital history or extra marital affairs that may have possibly taken place. Even so, how can you compare that to the absolute disgraceful behavior of so many catholic priests? At the time of this debate it was bad. This year it was revealed that there are hundreds of priests that committed these terrible cases of abuse with thousands of young boys. How dare you.

@si4632

5 жыл бұрын

@@lespaul5734 he left his wife for a rich jew and he died from throat cancer caused by alcoholism all facts

@kennethking8091

5 жыл бұрын

@@si4632 The problem in the church is that priests have been molesting young children and then the higher ups covered it up and continued to do so as was revealed this year. You response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

@kennethking8091

5 жыл бұрын

@@si4632 What kind of argument is that? You are not very articulate. No wonder you needed to post a KZread video to speak for you. You still are not making sense.

2:12 Archbishop John Anaiyekan 13:13 Christopher Hitchens 34:08 Anne Widdecombe 47:55 Stephen Fry

@vijay10ryan

4 жыл бұрын

Hitch and Fry spoke for years compared to what the others spoke

@naveen82376

4 жыл бұрын

But that wasn't the God of the Bible. Hitler was a Pantheist. To him nature is god. Hitler was a fan of Nietzsche. He was a social darwinist who believed in eugenics. Those were Hitler's inspiration who, not the God of the Bible who has commanded getting angry with a person is equivalent to murder. More people were killed by atheistic communist regimes than the atrocities committed by any religion. I am not condoning the atrocities committed by the church: the worst was Spanish Inquisition: 6000 killed over 300 years. That's wrong and reprehensible. The church should always be reminded of all the atrocities committed historically, and Christians should be humble. But atheists should maintain some modesty: just remember what happened in China under Mao, stalin in USSR and other demagogues across Europe and other countries.

@wsreferencia

4 жыл бұрын

@@naveen82376 Amazing how everything you've said is plain wrong, so much nonsense on the same comment. All fascist regimes had a strong link to the vatican, the very first treaty Hitler did was with the catholic church. Communism just replaces the invisible god you believe in with a visible one, Mao's regime being a great example of that. Also, no one has ever killed in the name of "nothing", however, the inquisition, the cruzades and a great number of genocides were commited in the name of god. You are in for a lost cause.

@naveen82376

4 жыл бұрын

@@wsreferencia please point out what I've said is factually. Please have a look at "Hitler's Religion: The Twisted Beliefs that Drove the Third Reich by Richard weikart." It details how much Hitler hated Christianity. The communists were atheists whose actions were the result their atheism: because they are accountable to no one. Here is a report from IBT in 2016: A senior Chinese advisor on religious affairs has said the country should promote atheism throughout society, in remarks that appear to reflect a deepening campaign to reinforce traditional Marxist values in China - and could add to concern about official attitudes among believers in the country’s five officially recognized religions." Even now China detains millions of religious people. More people have been killed by atheistic regimes (mainly because of their hatred for religion) than any religion. Atheists have been murderous tyrants when they got power.

@darealpimpofdasouth

4 жыл бұрын

@@naveen82376 Communism and atheism are not the same thing there is not such thing as an atheist regime. Communism was the driving force in those regimes, I find it strange that the only time the word atheist even comes up in these topics is when it is linked to words like communism, almost like it wouldn't stand on it's own.

It always amazes me how the Catholic Church refers to the horrors they have inflicted on people as "mistakes" and "being human". Vom.

It's an interesting contrast. I could listen to Fry or Hitchens for hours, But ten seconds of Anne Widdicome makes me wish I was deaf.

Hitchens was Hitchens but Stephen Fry was particularly fired up for this one. "THEN WHAT ARE YOU FOR?" Another one: "It's like a Burglar in court. 'Of course you'd mention THAT Burglary, and THAT manslaughter....you never mention I give my father a birthday present!'" Hitchens was fairly amused by that analogy too.

@inkwellflood8276

4 жыл бұрын

They were speaking for many, good on them, 🤘🏻🎩

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

I'm not surprised that fry knows what happens in court... With his record.

@BSE1320

4 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 He went to jail for credit card fraud at 17, and paid his debt to society. Considering the catholic church shields child molestors...I don't think you should bother arguing about moral superiority.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

@@BSE1320 agreed . However.. How reputation for honesty is shot

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

Here's what we're for ... The salvation of souls . even your mangy one.

Hitchens and Fry are a force for good in the world. Rest in peace Christopher, you will never be forgotten.

@sundayseahorse

3 жыл бұрын

R.I.P is a Christian expression, ya fool.

@misterrex684

3 жыл бұрын

@@sundayseahorse and your ,,christian holidays'' are pagan, ya fool.

@sundayseahorse

3 жыл бұрын

@@misterrex684 Some are, I never said they weren't don't jump the gun, ya moron. Away out and dance round a tree ya troglodyte.

@suomusintti

3 жыл бұрын

@@sundayseahorse Is it a problem if non christians use it?

@misterrex684

3 жыл бұрын

@@sundayseahorse yeah, all are of pagan origin but they changed some so much they ended up beeing boring (christian) and not pagan. At least im now allowed to dance, make beautiful paintings, play games and studie science, which the church suppressed. Go to your catacombs and pray for forgiveness, ya moron. And stop telling others to steal christian values, because christianity does/did that constantly with other religions.

The Catholic Church states that abstinence is the best form of birth control, tell that to the Virgin Mary.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

6 ай бұрын

Why do you think she's called "the Virgin"?😂

@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt

6 ай бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Because she was selling it on the side, probably to Roman soldiers

@PrintProfessor

6 ай бұрын

😂

@4OHz

4 ай бұрын

@@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt - one would think. wouldn’t they ? The Holy Spirit or some Nazarene Harlot

@helenchelmicka7894

2 ай бұрын

😅😅

This is the most fantastic debate I have ever watched. Since it was first presented I have come back every couple months to watch it again. It only gets better with time.

It amazes me that Widdecombe's first argument against Christopher is to say that he used an historical argument about the Church to make his point, then ignores, or at least mostly ignores, him pointing out the unspeakable horrors committed by the Church in the past twenty years. It was entirely pathos-driven, and I couldn't take another word of her argument seriously.

@stanislavzoldak2198

7 жыл бұрын

Hitch's reaction to that at 35:27 was priceless.

@mkprocter882

5 жыл бұрын

yeah she really was as bad as possible in the whole debate, I could've made better cases for the Catholic Church and I'm an atheist ffs

@andrewleah1983

6 ай бұрын

You can only ever argue historical points as the future hasn’t happened yet. It’s a stupid argument.

Ann Widdecombe sounds like a poor imitation of a british person. Something you'd hear from a monty python sketch.

@GeeTrieste

5 жыл бұрын

Only goes to show how well Monty Python captured the essence of older uppercrust female Britisher.

@Talostem

5 жыл бұрын

Slightly reminds me of Hyacinth Bucket.. sorry, Bouquet.

@blaice9226

5 жыл бұрын

hahaha yesss

@Jordan-mc8ig

5 жыл бұрын

“Ms Whitman” lol 😆

@eolandeeliva8655

5 жыл бұрын

I had an overwhelming urge to slap her smug face..and I'm not a violent person!

It's annoying that hardly anybody has any questions. They're all just stating their own opinions. Colour your questions with your opinions rather than just throwing statements.

@GlowingMpd

3 ай бұрын

👍

You can admire Hitchens. But if you do not love Fry, you know not love.

@kimlog7476

Ай бұрын

An international treasure

"For shame, if you could feel it." - Hitch

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

What actually is*shame? The disapproval of the majority? That makes the majority right, of course.

@chrissonofpear1384

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 The it's not right to perhaps force captive women to marry? Or to have loopholes to keep some... servants... for life...?

@alexandergrimm1195

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrissonofpear1384 no no no... those arent servants sir we prefer to call them priests and nuns they work for us and do whatever we tell them to as long as we say "the master your god commands you"

@luckyloveless2340

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/eqRnwc2bp7rZgLg.html

This is like Mike Tyson vs a blind child

@kenbellchambers4577

5 жыл бұрын

NO NO NO Geordan, not a blind child, a dead duck. (Please tell me what Gundelfinger means.) My name means a 'swell bedroom'.

@billofjazz

5 жыл бұрын

Or like bringing a butter knife to a gunfight....

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

Amazing... Jesus loves blind children... Maybe Mike Tyson too.

@liquidbraino

4 жыл бұрын

@Pat Aherne Cardinal George Pell loves blind children too because they can't point him out in a police lineup.

@darthmong7196

4 жыл бұрын

@@liquidbraino Dammit you beat me to it!

I think this is astounding how this was all organized and presented. I wish all our entertainment/programming was like this. We need more of this and less stupid movies and shows. That voting presentation with the display of numbers is incredible and important.

@marknutter2533

7 ай бұрын

What I gained from the voting was...most of the audience was against the CC to begin with and enjoyed the performances of Hitchens & Fry more. It had little to do with truth. The Catholic Church, aggregated, is the largest charitable organization on Earth. How could the bishop & MP lose? The bishop made the point in the closing (after the vote): much of the debate was not on point. How unintelligent. 🤔

@jaimefernandez2624

7 ай бұрын

@@marknutter2533 sorry you misspelled that, you meant to say "the catholic church, aggregated , is the largest criminal organization on earth." "most of the audience was against the CC to begin with and enjoyed the performances of Hitchens & Fry more. It had little to do with truth" in general in most debates most people dont change their minds, but this one is an exception to that. look at the number at the end again, all undecided people and half more than half of the people who were in favor of the motion where convinced to change their vote. this debate is THE example of when debates do convince people.

@normalguycap

7 ай бұрын

@@marknutter2533 That's what I thought. Talk ignorant vague crap, get schooled, never follow up. And you'll still never change your mind despite all the historical facts against you.

@BlueSummers101

6 ай бұрын

@@marknutter2533 There are many points that I could make and many areas that I could go down to completely refute your stance. However I will chose just one, if the Catholic Church truly is a 'force for good' then please explain to me it's role in the staggering amount of child abuse cases and exploitation of children all around the world.

@klaasvaak8009

6 ай бұрын

except for the q&a section, very wastefull of time

The saddest part about this is, the archbishops ancestors “found” the religion he’s promoting thru force and subjugation. Smmfh

@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt

7 ай бұрын

Religion at the point of a sword.

Widdecombe in a nutshell : "We're bad, but you are too, so we are good."

@raisumit476

2 жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha...

@adenjones1802

2 жыл бұрын

We were bad but now were good, movin into your neighbourhood

@sylwiamarszalek4679

Жыл бұрын

Can’t stand that woman

@PriscillaAustin

Жыл бұрын

@@sylwiamarszalek4679 She started speaking and i started reading the comments, her tone is so annoying.

If I understood Mrs Widdecombe correctly, she said whenever a christian did something horrible, it's a single person or you have to see it in the context of the time, and whenever a christian did something good, it's the church that encourage the person, am I wrong there? What a complete waste of time to debate with such persons.

@Doctor_Straing_Strange

3 жыл бұрын

Logic left the building

@rustycherkas8229

3 жыл бұрын

Do some reading about Ireland's "Magdalene Laundries". Kinda wish their existence had been brought up. Widdecombe tried to score points by suggesting "that was then, this is now" with centuries between. Just ain't so... Galileo was tortured, but 10 years earlier, Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake for advocating the same Copernican 'theory'... Stephen didn't state it, but that church waited four centuries before it could admit Galileo (and Bruno) were right. "We CANNOT allow science to progress or speak as it will only prove the vacuousness of our tenets... It will prove we emperors have been peddling only lies." The debate is good, if the voting, before and after, was an accurate indication of a positive change in some people's attitudes.

@007sebbi

3 жыл бұрын

@Strengt of Yahweh For example?

@rustycherkas8229

3 жыл бұрын

@Strengt of Yahweh A lot of the Christian "wrongs" require absolutely no context, and it is often the apologists who tell lies trying to cover-up, hide, deflect or "explain" the most repugnant, horrendous behaviors of their ilk... So what's your point?

@shroomer8294

3 жыл бұрын

@Strengt of Yahweh This is exactly what someone who’s biased would say.

It's rare that Hitch gets upstaged, but he did here. Hats off to Stephen.

15:40 16:40 slave trade 18:10 vs orthodox christians 19:40 requested 20:20 Hitler's birthday celebration 21:00 half apologies 21:55 children r*pe 24:15 24:28 Antisemitis 25:25 violence in service of truth 27:27 antisemetic 28:30 Rawanda christianity caused genocidee 29:00 Condoms 29:45 homophobia 31:00 Remission from hell 31:30 Crime for paradise 33:15 Infallible pope 34:45 Anne 36:15 antisemitism 38:25 SS German 38:35 Jews and Romans 48:43 Church Aid 48:10 Stephen Fry 51:30 Purgatory money 55:40 Tomas More - torcherd for 56:45 SAnti women 57:15 Vatican and Islamic countries vs women's sexual choice 58:20 Don't talk to the police 58:40 Friend of the Pope 1:00:30 Homophobia

@arthursamenu5327

8 ай бұрын

Great job!

@AlexsGoogleAccount

5 ай бұрын

At 1:27:21, Archbishop John Onaiyekan says: "To come to the position of the church on homosexuality, we recognize that there are people who have homosexual tendencies and they consider themselves as such. The church also says that the homosexual acts are wrong, but that doesn't mean that those who are engaged with it are condemned outright because each person has his own personal story. There is room for that." Just one year before this debate, John Onaiyekan proudly backed a strict ban on homosexuality in Africa. Homosexual sex acts were already criminal with a 14-year prison sentence, but the new ban Onaiyekan supported: 1. Criminalized anyone in a same-sex marriage or civil union, with a 14 year prison sentence. 2. Criminalized anyone who performs a same-sex marriage or in any way assists a gay couple to enter into a civil union, with a 10 year prison sentence. 3. Criminalized all public displays of affection between same-sex couples, with a 10 year prison sentence. 4. Criminalized anyone who participates in any pro-LGBTQ organization including gay bars, societies, and advocacy groups, with a 10 year prison sentence. 5. Criminal Charges can be brought against anyone who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights under this rule, even extending to HIV/AIDS outreach. 6. Criminal Charges can be brought against any co-habiting homosexuals, even if there is no evidence of sexual activity or a relationship between them. What do you mean Onaiyekan when you say "that doesn't mean that those who are engaged [in homosexual acts] are condemned outright"? Just one year ago YOU supported measures to lock them all up, to lock up all of their allies, and lock up anyone who speaks out in their favor. How can they develop "[their] own personal story"? Where is the "room for that." when you want them to be imprisoned for decades for anything tangentially related to their existence (no sex acts needed).

For anyone who wants to study in-depth: 1:38 Archbishop 12:55 Hitchens 33:58 Widdecombe 47:33 Fry 1:07:49 Vote 1:09:45 Questions 1 1:16:58 Questions 2 1:22:07 Questions 3 1:28:15 Questions 4 1:36:05 Vote 1:37:30 Fry 1:40:32 Widdecombe 1:45:20 Hitchens 1:50:10 Fellow humans, THIS. IS. MORALITY. 1:51:23 Archbishop 1:57:16 Vote

@barbie6391

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@davidr1431

Жыл бұрын

i wonder how many people revisiting this skip the archbishop and widdicombe initial speeches. having heard them once, once is enough.

@tomevans5630

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 😊

@elmoblatch9787

10 ай бұрын

Just omit everyone except Hitch and Fry and you'll be fine.

@Anonie324

10 ай бұрын

@@davidr1431 The archbishop is tolerable, but Widdecombe was cursed with an *extraordinarily* difficult voice to listen to, about as querulous, whiny, and shrill a timbre as I've ever heard in a person. The fact that she proffers tired reactionary drivel with petulant and entitled language doesn't help.

I almost feel bad for the black dude, he had no idea what he got himself into

@dicktrickle875

5 жыл бұрын

lol ikr

@SS-qp2ex

5 жыл бұрын

One thing I would have added is the low level of intelligence of religious people

@elcheapo9444

5 жыл бұрын

That's just a mean, hateful comment. He is not speaking in his native language and it is hard to express yourself in a foreign language.

@nathanjora7627

5 жыл бұрын

Jay S, it’s only another reason why it was a bad idea for him to go into this debate.

@elcheapo9444

5 жыл бұрын

@@nathanjora7627 I agree with that. But there's no reason to suggest that he is intellectually disadvantaged.

One of my biggest dreams is to one day become as eloquent, intelligent, imaginative, creative and kind as Stephen Fry.

I almost feel bad for the bishop. You can tell he's a good guy at heart, and English isn't his native language. And then you just watch Christopher Hitchens getting introduced. He's takes a nice sip of his drink, and then it's like watching a nuclear bomb destroy an anthill. Then it's followed up by a second nuclear bomb with Fry.

Ann sounds like a Monty Python character

@mauricefenderson4125

6 жыл бұрын

hahahahahaha

@dicktrickle875

5 жыл бұрын

lmao absolutely. beating a cat against the wall BRING OUT YA DEAD!!!

@Chan-zv5kb

5 жыл бұрын

Im thinking more "he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy"

@daedum3177

5 жыл бұрын

I seriously thought it was a joke for a solid sixty seconds. If I sounded like that I'd pretend to be mute!

@atheistman279

5 жыл бұрын

Like Dolores Umbridge on steroids.

I never noticed how laughable Widdicombe's argument of, "the time was bad therefore the church wasn't exceptionally bad" is in regards to child abuse.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

I think she was referring to the middle ages. People like you are hung up on child abuse. Is there something you'd like to tell us?

@kendrajade6688

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 We dislike people who abuse children. That's what we'd like to tell you. You, meanwhile, seem hell-bent on defending those people.

@NeonUlti

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 i think its say you didnt understand the comment about how it doesnt matter what time in ou rhistory it was including the middle ages thats no excuse for anyone to abuse children. Also saying people who hate the idea of any form of child abuse are "hung up on child abuse" is beyond a joke, if i thought like that id be ashamed of myself.

@ianmac214

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Go defend pedos somewhere else.

@allancouceiro9255

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 I think we should all be "hung up" on child abuse, mate. It's hardly appropriate to just sweep it aside.... unless you're the catholic church, that is.

I don't think the Archbishop had any idea what he was in for. He no doubt thought God was on his side.

history is absolutely important. Without history we learn nothing about our past, present or future.

"If the Catholic Church is not eternal,then what are you for?" Absolutely brilliant by Stephen Fry.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

5 жыл бұрын

It is eternal.

“The Church is not about military force” unless we’re retaking Jerusalem am I right lads!?

@dfstarborn

3 жыл бұрын

The Catholic church is not Christian and will never be Christian.. The Catholic harlot will always be pagan luciferian Rome masquerading as a religious cult when in reality she's a highly organized satanic military organization and fascist at that with all the world leaders in her pocket.

@jh5220

3 жыл бұрын

@@dfstarborn Well that escalated quickly

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

@@dfstarborn what church are you with, Daithí?

@dfstarborn

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 I believe in the gospel according to the scritpures in the King James bible. 1 Cor 15:1-4, Rom 1:16 KJV So I guess I'd be an enemy of the luciferian Pope who hates fundamentalists who believe the infallible word of God.. Baptist fundamentalist who believes that Jesus eternally paid for my sin debt which is precious blood meaning i'm eternally pardoned from the lake of fire where all Jesuit catholics are going if they don't repent.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

@@dfstarborn I m delighted to read that protesting though you are. But just consider that there would be no KJV if there were no catholic church because the bible comes to us because of that same church.

Brilliantly executed by all, I know we still have debates like this, but rarely are they so civil and polite.

Did anyone else notice the fairly large difference in intelligence between the catholic church supporters compared to the critics?

@GlowingMpd

3 ай бұрын

👍

Hitchens: "Just drop the mic, Stephen. It's time to go to the bar." Fry: "No... I've got a bit more."

“I am obsessed with sex... ever since I discovered that my god given male member was going to give me no peace, I decided to give it no rest in return” - Christopher Hitchens

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

You admire that?

@juliandedicatoria3728

3 жыл бұрын

As it should be

@wolfthequarrelsome504

3 жыл бұрын

@@juliandedicatoria3728 Borh were homosexuals with an active history.

@guesswho1573

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 sounds like someones jealous

@guesswho1573

3 жыл бұрын

@Steve Meikle i think the point is that since it doe no one harm it doesnt matter, we all have our own senses of right and wrong, you can choose to do whatever you want with your "male organ" (its called a penis by the way) aslong as it doesnt affect anyone else in a harmful way.

"Hi, we're the church. We don't have sex so we don't have families. Now let us tell you how to run a family" .... religion is the most embarassing thing humanity will ever have to admit we engaged in

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 ай бұрын

Hi we're an atheist and we like having sex with our own gender in fact we're now creating new genders, lots of them, just like God created Adam.

@ThomasMurrell-xr4mt

4 ай бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 How pathetic even for a brainwashed old paddy

Good to see how ruthless people like Ratzinger are being exposed.

00:02:01 - Opening argument (Onaiyekan) 00:13:42 - Opening argument (Hitchens) 00:34:32 - Opening argument (Widdecombe) 00:47:51 - Opening argument (Fry) 01:07:43 - Audience Q&A 01:37:35 - Closing statement (Fry) 01:40:32 - Closing statement (Widdecombe) 01:45:20 - Closing statement (Hitchens) 01:51:21 - Closing statement (Onaiyekan) 01:57:15 - Poll results and conclusions

@RojaJaneman

2 жыл бұрын

🙏

@alexleibovici4834

2 жыл бұрын

Mulţumesc.

@gumaboss1426

2 жыл бұрын

Merci

@angelicap7611

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!

@Amalekites

2 жыл бұрын

Tack!

I know this is an old debate, but it honestly still fills me with rage that half of Ann’s argument boils down to “we weren’t the only ones!” Or “everyone else was like it too!” It’s no excuse, a force for good in the world would not stoop to everyone else’s low levels, would it? Surely it would lead by example!

@saggguy7

5 жыл бұрын

It would certainly lead by example if it were truly the mouthpiece of god on earth, as they claim to be

@DominiqueSuberville924

5 жыл бұрын

I also rewatch it every so often. Fuels the passion

@olahedberg8613

5 жыл бұрын

I also enjoyed how she said that the catholic church should not be expected to behave better than society. I thought the whole thing was about how the religion is the only salvation and anything divergent is wrong. Theyre supposed to have the answer, but they keep changing their minds.

@adamtaylor1739

5 жыл бұрын

Especially bad when you remember the Catholic church claims to have the divine on their side

@KingNefiiria

5 жыл бұрын

@@SpaceCattttt Aye, but if you're going to purport that you are a force for good in the world, that you are THE force for good in the world, you MUST hold your entire group to higher standards, and be very strict and disciplined in weeding out the chaff. There is no excuse for letting hundreds of thousands of children be raped by ministers and priests, whom are all supposed to be celibate, and not even the least bit interested in sex, nor is there any excuse for the atrocities that the Catholic church has done, both in the near and far past.

Defending the worst institution ever is already hard but doing it in a language that isn’t your first is even harder. Kinda feel bad for the guy

@allthatchas

8 ай бұрын

He is from Nigeria, English is the official language there.

@raphaellacondeixa6400

8 ай бұрын

@@allthatchas oh my bad he is really struggling just because of the church then that's even worst

@sapphire4310

5 ай бұрын

I think he just sucks at debating, you can see how out of his depth he is in the closing statement lmao

This Widdecombe is exceptionally dim. She sure knows how to make herself look intellectual and adopt a snobbish tone of voice, but the substance is simply not there.

@jgdooley2003

3 жыл бұрын

Ann is her first name.

Rough Calculations of the votes by percentage (cause i was bored) First Vote (2126 voters) 31.9% For 51.9% Against 16.2% Undecided Second Vote (2178 voters) 12.3% For 86.1% Against 1.5% Undecided

@wolfthequarrelsome504

5 жыл бұрын

It might be better to run a word count and tell us which side SAID more

@corkldlwlslcops

4 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Said more? They both had the same amount of time. And no, the number of words is a ridiculous requirement. Hitch and Fry out-argued them at every turn. Or don't you believe in using your god-given brains?

@markmalinowski4196

3 жыл бұрын

Pat Aherne ... they lost fair and square in the debate....maybe these weren’t the best Catholics to put forward. Who would you rather have had?

@loganharris2166

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfthequarrelsome504 its been a year, but I want to say this. You can use a thousand words and still say nothing.

@scottwilliamson7703

3 жыл бұрын

@@loganharris2166 I’ve been reading the comments, while listening to this, and Pat has hundreds of posts defending the church, and every one of them is just utter nonsense, he certainly has used tens of thousands of words.

Brilliant debate and delightful watching the formidably intelligent Fry and Hitchens shred the Archbishop and Anne Widdecombe's fragile defence of an outmoded institution that no longer serves any discernible purpose in an educated and free-thinking world.

@Fondrom

6 ай бұрын

I think the Nigerian priest has good intentions

@elegast1819

Ай бұрын

Look at you so brilliantly educated and free-thinking, glory of the Enlightenment, good job.

just the point of child rape alone tells me that the catholic church is terrible.

29:37 Imagine being Stephen Fry, listening to one of the greatest orators of his era speaking truth to the most powerful institution in history, on your behalf, for the hatred against you and others like you. That ending line might be my favorite Hitch argument of them all

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

No one there is a great orator.

@wolfthequarrelsome504

4 жыл бұрын

@Where Is Waldo hardly oratory at it's finest, though. Oratory requires facts. Hitchins is short in them. If your want to see oratory watch Frank Turek v Hitchens debate on KZread.

"There is no evidence that more condoms leads to less AIDS." Just let that sink in for a minute.

@nathanjora7627

5 жыл бұрын

HD Sinclair, from where I come, we have a common advice : tell X or do X, and we’ll offer you ciment boots and a swimming session in the nearest river. I think there are rivers and ciment, where this lady live, so can we try to let something else sink ? ^^

@darrengray3782

5 жыл бұрын

I think you mean cement, but anyway what are you trying to say , are you threatening her?

@nathanjora7627

5 жыл бұрын

​@@darrengray3782​Yes, I said «ciment» because it's spelled that way where I live, thanks for the correction :) And it wasn't a threat, it was dark humor (I'm not certain it's called that way in English, but it seems so). But seeing as you are incapable of empathy, I wouldn't expect you to distinguish humor from threats. «I'm gonna kill you» is a threat, «[any doofus hyperbolic threat here that no one in his right mind would take seriously]» is not. It's just a way to express anger at someone else's position by reciprocating the inanity : she says something... So utterly wrong that a 5 years old child could tell it, I say something of equal utter stupidity and vacuousness to show my anger in a cathartic way. (in this context, the violence I need catharsis from

@darrengray3782

5 жыл бұрын

Sorry, I try to read your posts but they are getting more rambling and boring as we go on, why not just agree, that you hate Christianity, for whatever reason and leave it at that aha

@nathanjora7627

5 жыл бұрын

@@darrengray3782 , I do not hate christianity. The same way I don't hate butt cancer and people such as yours, I just misprize them. But why not just agree that you hate humanity, for Godly reasons, and leave it at that ?

The religious' motto: Only we matter.

The vote swing before and after was quite remarkable and proves to me that the arguments for the motion rang hollow on many levels

Well then WHAT ARE YOU FOR!!

@luufia

7 жыл бұрын

Iñigo Martinez Lopez they never answered that question?

@the66percent

7 жыл бұрын

They didnt answer a lot of questions...

@bettyjojoeharperre-imagina7322

6 жыл бұрын

Iñigo Martinez Lopez One of the BEST parts. So hilarious! That's how I always felt when I was younger, I couldn't ever get straight answers from them. So, fuck them.

@StevenAzari

6 жыл бұрын

His voice boomed a bit didn't it? :D sounded like the Nintendo Sixty FOUUUUR kid... (search youtube)

@darrenleiberman6250

5 жыл бұрын

That was the entire event condensed into one beautifully expressed question, well done Stephen.

Steven and Christopher are simply linguistical geniuses. That is a fact. I do wish to say however, as someone who speaks two languages and is learning another, the ability to debate in a language that is not your mother tongue, no less in front of a large group, is incredibly impressive.

@tbrowniscool

8 ай бұрын

Your 100% correct. Christopher and Steven are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to linguistic skill. I would love to know what those that are learning English think of this video? ❤❤

@allthatchas

8 ай бұрын

I suppose that you are referring to John Onaiyekan's command of English. Actually, English is the official language of his native Nigeria. This is not to put down his input in the debate, but be aware of the colonialist ramifications.

@TheYuvimon

8 ай бұрын

@@tbrowniscool You strike me as someone who is interested in languages and their use, so allow me to offer this correction: "Tip of the iceberg" doesn't refer to something being "the best of the best", which is what I think you intended the phrase to mean. A fitting phrase would be "the cream of the crop", but the "tip of the iceberg"-analogy means to say that something is only the start or only the surface of something bigger (like how icebergs are bigger beneath the waterline). As in, there is more to be un-/discovered about a topic.

@tbrowniscool

8 ай бұрын

@@TheYuvimon We don't tend to use the term "cream of the crop" in England

@user-rx1mb5fp7c

7 ай бұрын

@@tbrowniscool Cream of the crop is fine. So its "the absolute pinnacle", meaning the absolute very best at something