He was a more influential person on history than most realize

@MrWizardofozzz

Жыл бұрын

Well, one could say that Pletho was as influential as Plato..

@j0nnyism

11 ай бұрын

Often the way. When we think of evolutionary theory we think of Darwin not Wallace even though Wallace had done just as much around the same time to develop the theory. Some people are just unlucky when it comes to history

@zabooza74

5 ай бұрын

@@MrWizardofozzz No don't think so he was just a Plato interpreter who didn't get Plato which is even reflected in his name. Like Plotinus more part of some obscurant gnostic ecclectisim than anything important. Even though he was tryin though, gotta appreciate the effort...

@emutemusic

5 ай бұрын

Always buried by the Churches. Catholic + Orthodox. It's the same shite 😅 there's a book now that came out in Greece. It's all about the Attiki Etaireia... Organised by Plethon, platonic philosophers from Greece were sent to spread greek philosophy and initiate, influence the West and even the East. Even the Queen Elisabeth had a Greek Stratioti at ther court.... His influence is enormous. I believe that this is where Arcadianism started in Europe, up until Romantism was influenced by the ... Church to take away anything Greek influenced... They hate Hellenism... They still do. Both Catholics and Orthodox or any other dogmas. Even Scientism. If the world goes at some point truly Greek, this system will collapse. It is its time it has been 2.500 years 😀

Im astounded how much I enjoy this channel. Its the unique perspectives these stories take. Its like seeing something old through fresh eyes. And so well scripted, narratored and edited. Exceptional content for YT.

The Emperor should have listened to Pletho's advice.

Succinct and very well put together! Thanx!!

I knew about this guy due to a chain of events in the EU4 mod Third Odyssey, where the Byzantines escape to America right before they fell.

Plethon was a great man and a hero

@ophir3949

3 жыл бұрын

How happy I am to hear compliments from this great unknown man named Plethon from someone else. Plethon and all the disciples of his secret cryptopagan order, which stretched from Venice to Beijing, saved the human race from the abysmal obscurity of theocratic fanaticism.

@zabooza74

5 ай бұрын

@@ophir3949 Sounds based, but also very schizophrenic, tell me more I am hooked now...

@pah9730

Ай бұрын

@@ophir3949 How we doing today with that “salvation”? Great men are not made by speculation and rational discourse but experience of the Divine and spiritual enlightenment through this. Sadly, Plethon walked away or never understood the path of enlightenment which passes through purification and asceticism, prayer and fasting, and union with God in Christ. . . And thus denied Christ and imagined the ascent of perennialism as “salvation” for humanity. A tragic story indeed.

He was also a big influence on Cardinal Bessarion and Pomponius Laertius Accademia Romana, which was interestingly enough also condemned by the Pope for Neopaganism.

@user-it6jy6xr6s

5 ай бұрын

Erasmus also was a student of Genorgios Ermonymos. Who was a student o Plethon.

@zabooza74

5 ай бұрын

@@user-it6jy6xr6s Personally don't think that apart from his obvious philological skills, that this was too much of an influence on Erasmus. As he is a total christian to the point, that he is very annoingly so...

@user-it6jy6xr6s

5 ай бұрын

@zabooza74 I am not going to doubt that. But Erasmus was introduced to a language that opened up a new universe of thought.

@zabooza74

5 ай бұрын

@@user-it6jy6xr6s Dunno I mean he basically just made already very christian society even more christian by translating the Septuaginta and thus sparked evangelical fundamentalism and opened up all kinds of Pandoras Boxes. He should have just translated something else from pagan antiquity like De Rerum Natura and drop the hebrew crap. Would have been much more helpful to end the middle ages in my mind...

This is fantastic. Thank you

He saw Platonism as a continuation and greatest expression of an ancient mytical metaphyical order that was expressed in the cults of Zoroaster and Pythagoras for example. His teaching of astronomy that you mention were maily astrology based on the book Chaldean Oracles, supposedly from ancient Babylonia (but in fact probably written in 2nd century Rome) defined a hierarchy of existence with a whole ton of mysticism drawn from various parts of the mythologies of the different regions of the Roman Empire, much like Hermeticism with its weird Greco-Egyptian mythology. Whether Plato would have actually recognised this as a representation of his philosophy seems doubtful to me, I suspect he would have been horrified by its use by obscurantists like Plotinus from the 3rd century onwards. It was only in the 18th century that people started study Plato's works in themselves again and not through the lens of centuries of neo-Platonic flummery.

@jimakisspd

5 ай бұрын

'' Whether Plato would have actually recognised this as a representation of his philosophy seems doubtful to me, I suspect he would have been horrified by its use by obscurantists like Plotinus from the 3rd century onwards.' Actually this is not true, in fact the western theory of German protestant scholars of the 18th century that Neoplatonists were nothing but ''obscure mystics with no relationship to the original Plato'' has been debunked by so many scholars again and again but this western appropriation of Plato just won't die. Even Augustine aknowledged that the Neoplatonists of the academy of his days were decent followers of Plato's doctrines, despite the fact that he was their enemy. Plato's influence from Egyptian mysticism and Zoroastrian doctrines can be seen in most of his dialogues, from ''Charmides'' , to Phaedrus to Politicus.

@zabooza74

5 ай бұрын

Yeah I view Plethon as more of an eclectic and pretty much still a christian. He is thus like most of these pseudo neopagan figures from the middle ages or even today who still operate within the intellectuall margins of a culturally christian society.

Thanks!

I like this guy Plethon

Cool!

''έλληνες εσμέν το γένος ώς η τε φωνή καί η πάτριος παιδεία μαρτυρεί'' ... Plethon.

@pierren___

3 жыл бұрын

Traduction please

@deusinversus2033

3 жыл бұрын

"Greeks are the race as the voice.. and education testifies it"

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@pierren___ "έλληνες εσμέν το γένος ώς η τε φωνή καί η πάτριος παιδεία μαρτυρε" His translation is close but slightly off. A better translation would be.. "We are Greeks by genus as our language and education testifies". The "we'" Plethos is referencing is elements within the eastern Roman empire that although they called themselves Romans also saw themselves related to ancient Greeks . Not all eastern Romans did. It was a multi-ethnic state that stressed assimilatoin into Greek-speaking Roman-ness and Christianity rather than ethnicity. It's borders also varied greatly over its lifespan so different national groups were at times part of it. Some areas didn't speak Greek but the single largest group did. It was somewhat similar situation with Holy Roman empire where German language was the most common but not the only language. The main difference is the Holy Roman Empire was divided into semi-autonomous Kingdoms rather than Themes like the Greek-speaking on (closer to the concept of provinces). Assimilation happened in both situations but Holy Roman empire tended to asssimilate on Kingdom level whereas eastern Roman empire assimilated on national level. DNA testing suggests the degree of assimilation that happened in both empires seems to be greatly exaggerated by some polemists today (motivated by their politics not scientific objectivity). There were no trains, buses, and planes back then. To cross into a theocracy also risked death as an invader.

@pierren___

Жыл бұрын

@@mydogsbutler okay, is Plethon paganism conform to antiquity or is it different ?

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@pierren___ There are some similarities and some differences plus unknowns.. Keep in mind a lot of the archaeological evidence is fragmentary. The ancient Greek pagan religion evolved over centuries even during it's day. Depending the time or place during that period rituals varied and not all of it is known. . The revivalists stitch bits and pieces of customs that was documented in discovered artifacts and works from different time periods. Homer's Iliad , Odyssey, Homeric hymns , Hesiod's Theogony and Works and Days, and Pindar's Odes are essentially the framework they use but there isn't a definite source like the Torah, Koran , Bible. There was a lot of flexibility in customs. Belief in the main gods Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite, et al is there. There is flowers, dancing, singing. It's somewhat hippie-like from what I've heard. That's all I know about it. I'd actually like to visit a ceremony one of these days to see for myself. They like to conduct their ceremonies in ancient temples. Even if not a perfect reconstruction it would still be interesting to see what customs they have duplicated successfully.

"worldly goods" is a good book about the book trade in western europe during the renaissance. many were imported from the byzantines then ottomans.

@paulyg3776

Жыл бұрын

Is it the one by Lisa Jardine?

What a great man

I just found this through the r/pagan subreddit. Very interesting.

Yes, thank you

My inspiration

the people must learn more about him.He was a real hellenic soul in the christian years of Hellas

@chrisofmelbourne87

2 жыл бұрын

I agree!

@kornelszecsi6512

5 ай бұрын

Well Hellenistic Christianity, Neoplatonic Christianity is true Christianity

I love content about this important man but you basicallly just reread from the wikipedia article

based

Gemiste Pleton = Platon

I find this accent hard to understand

A period of sanity

I am definitely sure whenever Plethon and the rest of his kin talked about themselves they never used the invalid term 'greeks' but called themselves Hellenes. This disgusting behaviour by so called western academia to ascribe names to cultures that the cultures never used for themselves has to finally stop. Start respecting your subject matter.

Plato was considered much more pagan than Aristotle in his way of thinking whereas Aristotle was considered a natural Christian living in pagan times. John chrsyostotum said “we need no other philosophy than the philosophy of Jesus Christ “. And from the early medieval period Plato was very much neglected

@nodruj8681

11 ай бұрын

This is christian revisionism and nothing more.

@monkeymoment6478

10 ай бұрын

This is grossly anachronistic. The only reason a pre-Christian philosopher would seem a “natural Christian” is because Christianity stole from said philosopher.

@jimakisspd

5 ай бұрын

Yes after Thomas Aquinas he tended to be considered as a ''christian of pagan times''. All this despite the fact that Aristotle rejected divine providence for human affairs, the creation of the world(considering it eternal with no beggining or end), the survival of individual souls after death, divine grace and generally anything that could constitute a Christian.

@datoda3593

5 ай бұрын

@@jimakisspd St. Thomas Aquinas referred to Aristotle as "THE philosopher". And his achievements were pretty remarkable: a monotheist, an advocate of virtue ethics, and a firm believer that the soul's operations transcend the body - all of which he arrived at entirely through natural reason, something which Aquinas found to be rather inspiring. Aristotle, being a pagan centuries before the birth of Christ, definitely wasn't 100% on everything as you have written, but that's to be expected

Everyone knows ancient Greek philosophers Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. Plethos is a Greek philosopher that was famous in Italy during the Renaissance. He was a major figure in propelling interest in ancient Greek history, culture, and knowledge. And virtually no one today has ever heard of him.

@danielburger1775

Жыл бұрын

Pletho IS Plato. Gennadius Scholarius is Aristotle. There was a War between Athens and Sparta from 1374-1387. The Battle of Thermopylae is the Battle of Neopatras. The "Greek city states" are the Frankish/Latin fiefdoms of c. 1190-1460 AD. There was a major war in the 13th century that perfectly parallels the "ancient Trojan War". It was chronicled by the Comte de Saint Omer. Even names like Dardanelles, Thebes, Byzantine, Troy betray their linguistic origins. Santorini is named after Saint Irene Cyrus of Persia is Sire Charles of Anjou Cambyses is Charles de Naples Christians in Athens built a church in the 14th century which they dedicated to the Virgin Mary("parthenos" means "virgin"). A statue of Mary as a Crusader was erected in the church, which was called "The virgin of Athens"..Pallas Athena. Mary was also called Mother of God=Dei Mater= Demeter. The list goes on and on... "Ancient Greece" is an artificial historical duplicate.

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

My suggestion before lecturing on the past stop lying in the present by ridiculously claiming former Yugoslavians "ethnic" Athenians ... no wait thats "ethnic" Spartans... Sorry they are apparently "ethnic" Macedonians. As everyone knows antihellenic slavs were founders of the Hellenistic period. Keep up the great work you anti-Greek bigot.

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@danielburger1775 Gemistos Plethon, was a 15th eastern Roman Greek that considered ancient Greeks his ancestors (what anti-Greek ignoramuses like you call Byzantine.. a name he did not use to describe himself) . He taught Greek language and Greek philosophy in early Renaissance Italy when most of the world had no clue what Aristotle et al were. He knew about Greek language, philosophy, science and history since of course that was what was taught in what you and most others today erroneously call "Byzantines" (aka mostly Greek speaking Romans) He was famous at the time for it but as you demonstrate with your ignorance largely forgotten today. Perhaps you should spend more time reading books rather than coloring them in?

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@danielburger1775 What your ethnic background Mr Hamburger? Can you answer without lying or evading?

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@danielburger1775 Some more mostly forgotten tidbits of history. In 800 CE German-speaking King of the Franks Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor by the Pope who ceased to recognize Greek speaking Irene the Athenian as ruler of the Roman empire. Pope Innocent declared... "Decretalium, Romanourm imperium in persona magnifici Caroli a Grecis transtuli in Germanos"… Latin for "transferred Roman imperial authority from the Greeks to the Germans, in the name of His Greatness, Charles" From that point onward what was to become known as the Holy Roman empire not only insisted they were the "real' Roman empire but refused to call the other mostly Greek-speaking Roman empire.. Roman. The western Holy Roman, that claimed to be the "real" Roman empire, called the other Roman empire Imperium Graecorum, empire of the Greeks,.. for centuries. That changed only when 16th century German-speaking historian Hieronymus Wolf, introduced the system of calling the other Roman empire Byzantine in his work Corpus Historiae Byzantine. This was because the mostly German-speaking Holy Roman empire still refused to call the other Roman empire Roman. Mostly Greek has been spoken in unbroken chain in Greece leading all the way back to antiquity. Despite this today some claim modern Greeks are neither Romans or Greeks but really "Byzantines"... which is the original Greek name for Constantiniple. And those that claim Greeks are not "real" Greeks usually have substantially less in common culturally, linguistically and biologically with their claimed roots than Greeks do.

The last pagan Greek.

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

The last pagan Hellenes in an unbroken chain were in Mani (southern Greece). They converted to Christian Romans around 9th century. Plethos was a pagan but his paganism was vis-a-vis trying to reconstruct the pagan religion that had been lost. Revivalist pagans exist in Greece today too. There are just a few thousand of them but their numbers are growing. They are also now a recognized religion in Greece (which the Orthodox church hates). Due to better archeological methods and greater freedom there is a much better understanding of ancient Greek religion today then Plethos era. The reconstructionists have made some changes to modernize it and make it more humane (e.g. no animal sacrifices). As a greek, although I am not religious I much prefer pagan religion over Christian ideology that was forced on Greece and Europe by Latin Romans that converted to Christianity. Most Greek Christians today have no clue most ancient Greeks were horrified by Christianity. They were essentially forced to become Christians. Back then Christians essentially behaved like the Taliban. Either convert.. or face persecution, torture, or even be killed.

@fm-gamer5617

Жыл бұрын

@@mydogsbutler you should consider that all Christian Greeks were some day pagan before they converted to Christianity. So it’s not like Christiana came from other lands and forced all Greeks.

@mydogsbutler

Жыл бұрын

@@fm-gamer5617 I was raised Christian but I was taught a bunch of lies. Christianity was forced on Greece by Latin Roman emperors. Theodiosus and later Justinian in particular were were both violent religious fundamentalists. Theodiosus was the one that closed the academy in Athens. He ended the Olympics. He banned pagan religious expression. This is exactly the period when the term "Hellene" fell out of use and Greeks were assimilated into Christian Romans. If every Greek knew terrors early Christians committed on ancient Hellenes none would be Christians. The fact is Christianity is not even a Greek religion. It is middle eastern religion that started off as a Jewish cult but became popular among non-Jews.. Virtually the entire bible is a book of lies. Jesus never walked on water. Adam and Eve never happen. Christianity destroyed what was great about ancient Hellenism. What Greeks should be focusing on today if they want Greece to ever be relevant again isn't Chritianity.... its hellenic classics like mathematics, physics, and other scientific endeavors. That's want made ancient Greece magnificent... not praying to cult leader Jesus. .

@googleshill9343

Жыл бұрын

@@mydogsbutler things like libations were always a way for people to make the necessary offerings to the gods. If everyone sacrificed one of their cattle every week they would quickly be out of a farm. The Vedics still do such things as well.

@datoda3593

Жыл бұрын

@@mydogsbutler Greece was a hotspot of Christianity way before Rome as a whole converted and had any influence in the spread of the religion... And removing certain aspects of pagan religions because they are "inhumane" and "non-ethical" (As according to Enlightment-Christian morality) is really funny... Just goes to show that Neo-paganism is shallow and even its best "reconstructions" are mere caricatures of the old religions