I found the video insightful. Honestly, I was received into the Orthodox Church nearly a decade ago and haven't really delved into topics like "preterism" and other eschatological matters in a while. This served as a helpful refresher for me. 👍🏻

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!!

See Zach Davis, Travis Drum, Steve Magua, Maurice Rogers, Don Preston, Michael Sullivan, ..................... Again, love br. David - Canada.

I agree with you brother.

1 Th 4 does not require a "Left Behind" scenario. It simply meant that once the kingdom came, people would go to above to heaven when they die instead of below to Sheol (Hades) as they had been since Adam and Eve. It is true that Jesus did not come in His kingdom in 70 AD, for Jesus had said this would not be the end, but the end still had to be in that generation so it could not have been too many years after that. What you have to recognize is that the coming of the Lord was as Jesus said it would in Luke 17:20-21 - that is, invisible to the human eye.

@Bo__M

5 ай бұрын

The claim that there was an invisible, second coming of Christ sometime after 70 AD could be countered by John's statement in 2 John 7 where he writes that there must be a physical (bodily i.e. Christ has/will have the ability to have a physical body) coming of Christ. Denying this statement identifies with the Antichrist. If the 2nd coming, the physical one, should have happened 2000 years ago after all, then the question is, where has Jesus been appearing/hiding all this time? I think a fully - past interpretation of the Gospels or Revelation, generates more questions than solutions...

@michaeldavidgantt

5 ай бұрын

@@Bo__M 2 John 1:7 refers to the Lord's first coming, not His second. As for Jesus' resurrection body, the kind we will all have (1 Cor 15:42-44), He demonstrated it multiple times during the 40 days between His resurrection and ascension (e.g. Luke 24:39). As for where Jesus has been since His second coming, check out the center of the throne of God (Rev 7:17). Jesus Christ came the first time physically and the second time spiritually; that is, He came the first time as a man and the second time as God. Any preference we show for a physical return over a spiritual return is a sign of the kind of fleshly mind Paul decried in 1 Cor 3:1-3. A second coming that was fulfilled according to Jesus' timetable does not answer all questions, but it leaves us with better questions than we had when we were trying to explain away His clear references to a 1st-century consummation (see especially Matt 10:23; 16:28; 24:34).

@Bo__M

5 ай бұрын

@@michaeldavidgantt I have always understood 2 John 7 as a warning for the future: referring to the Antichrist(s) of 1 John 2:18, and also importantly, how we understand the Greek ερχομενος... which in effect gives me the understanding that Christ will also - but not only - come in a physical body. I don't understand that he must come in a physical body only, but that he will also have the opportunity to take on, what was his original, physical body. And why? Because the people of his time will also be resurrected, and to recognize that it is him. Anyway, on the original topic, I, like others, acknowledge the partial fulfillment of the prophecy of Mat 24 and parallel texts, but the main part, is yet to come. I don't even think the four apocalyptic horsemen have come out yet...that Jesus may well come in the 23rd century. As a Christian, I feel more committed to waiting on the Lord than speculating on an early, second coming or thinking it already happened, yesterday, 100 years ago, 500 years ago... I wonder - I don't understand it - what remains of the NT if I think the 2nd coming has already occurred sometime around 70 AD? It seems to me that only an ethical torso will remain of the NT, because the main part, will remain in the past. I wonder what your understanding of this is? What kind of future do you expect?

@michaeldavidgantt

5 ай бұрын

@@Bo__M I have never studied preterism, so I don’t know the nuances of its different forms. What I do know from reading the New Testament is that Jesus taught that His second coming would happen before His generation passed away, and that everything the apostles said confirmed this timetable. Therefore, for me to say that it has not occurred would be to call Him and the apostles liars or deluded. Even if you would excuse Jesus in some way for this, He would still be failing the test Moses gave for a true prophet (Deut 18:22). Besides, I see a spiritual second coming as both biblical and logical. As for the kind of future I see, it is the same as what we’ve seen for the last 1,900 years: nations rising and falling with Jesus as the Judge. In biblical times, Israel was God’s nation. Ever since the second coming, they’ve all been His. Therefore, the rise and fall of ancient Israel is instructive for all nations today. America is falling because it has turned against Him.

@Bo__M

5 ай бұрын

@@michaeldavidgantt I see. Thank you for your reply. What you write is an interesting conception (philosophy?) of history. I think it can be answered with quotes from the Bible (see below), but it's still interesting to see how another test would turn out. Namely, theodicy. The question: why does it take so long and why does God leave us to Evil, in the case of "waiting" for Christ...well, that question has to be dealt with somehow. In the case that Christ has already come, as you write, it looks better at first glance, but doubts still arise: why is Evil still here and how will it end? Perhaps this is what I would still like to know, how would you answer this? - The statement about the generation that will experience it all was Jesus' answer to the Apostles' question: when will the end of the ages be (Matt 24), when will it all end (Mk 13 and Lk 21)? And their question arose in response to Jesus' statement that only ruins would remain of the Temple.¨ As I observe it, the question was based on the fact that the destruction of the Temple also meant "the end of the world" for the apostles. Jesus answers them so, but his answer contains elements (e.g. Matt 24:30) that will only be fulfilled at the actual end of the world/ages. He did not lie to them, but his answer went beyond the time frame of the original question. An interesting detail is provided by Mat 24:21 as to when Jesus claims to exist "now", until "the present time" i.e. the year c. 32 AD, and never will. That "now" is an interesting insight into Jesus' perception of time. Even though the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem was the "great tribulation", we know from history that humans are capable of greater crimes... I think the "great tribulation" must be a global phenomenon and not a local one.

Respectfully, most of the early Church fathers didn't really know the apostles. At best there are some loose connections. That being said, there are many preteristic statements made by the early Church fathers even if many were schizophrenic (premillennial). Also, caught up absolutely does not mean people are being physically plucked up and floating and flying into air. How are OT saints in Heaven now? Why do we get to go to Heaven directly when we die? Why do we have to be judged after being with God in Heaven for howsoever long, even millennia? 1 Thess 4&5 is the same thing that Jesus speaks of in Matt 24. There are no fewer than a dozen commonalities between both passages. I used to be a partial preterist, but I had to be incredibly inconsistent to be one. Thank you for being gracious. We FP's love Scripture and I'm happy you recognize that.

I always find it interesting any time one uses 2 Tim. 2:17,18 to warn Full Preterists (consistent or full not hyper which is condescending and pejorative). It’s obvious that Paul issued this warning prior to the coming of the Lord in AD 70. So Full Preterists are in agreement with Paul and with you that the resurrection had not occurred at the time he was writing to Timothy. I hope you can see that your use of this text is both ineffective and misplaced.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 ай бұрын

I think if you will listen carefully to what I said, you’ll see that my point was simply this: if you are wrong, you are the same boat as those men. I’m not using that scripture to prove that you are wrong. (I use other arguments for that). I’m not being contentious here. I just want to make sure you understand my point. Not asking if you agree with me, but do you understand at least the point I’m trying to make?

@promisesrkept

3 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Thank you for the response. I understand the validity of your argument only in the context in which it was used by Paul. He was addressing two particular individuals who were claiming the resurrection occurred prior to AD 70. That was a time when the temple was still standing prior to the judgment and the end of the age. The resurrection would occur at the time of the end. This is an important point. If the resurrection is of individual dead bodies coming out of their graves as their stones were rolled away it could have been easily refuted. It wouldn’t have taken an inspired apostle warning them or negating their claims it would have simply taken a trip to the local cemetery. So, bringing that text into a modern discussion is not offensive it’s simply irrelevant in my opinion. But, again, thank you and may God bless.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

3 ай бұрын

@@promisesrkept thanks for watching and interacting! We disagree there. But I actually hope that full preterism is less serious an error than I fear it might be, because I have such a good time interacting with you fellows. No ill will on my part. I just call the shots as I see it here. I hope you keep watching and interacting!

@promisesrkept

3 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews I am convinced of the Full Preterist approach. I was raised in a pre-mil dispensational atmosphere. I moved on to a reformed a-mil view in adulthood. Then about twenty years ago (I’m 62) I read “The Last Days According to Jesus” by RC Sproul and “The Apocalypse Code” by Hank Hanegraaf and the journey began. I have read, watched countless debates and engaged in many discussions over the years on this issue. It’s rare to find someone who holds a traditional perspective who honestly pursues truth and chooses to engage in civil discourse. I have watched a few of your videos and plan to watch more. I want you to know I appreciate you and I believe you’ll keep an open mind as I’m also committed to do. The point you made from Rev. 10 and the instruction John received to “seal up…and do not write them” made me think. I’m now considering that and I want to say thank you. There are few points raised by Futurists that I actually consider to be relevant and thought provoking. Question: Do you find it plausible that John was shown the end of the Old Covenant age, the full establishment of the New Covenant age, and the establishment of the New Covenant church represented by the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21? Also, have you considered the relevance of Rev. 1:19 in application to the book as a whole? Revelation 1:19 (YLT) “Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things” Is it plausible that the entire prophecy was limited to past, present and things about to come from John’s perspective? Thanks again and may God continue to bless the honest pursuit of truth.

More Bible Prophecy to happen on some level. It is not over. Jesus Christ will Protect His True Church.

I couldn’t agree more. A biblical interpretation is pretty clear and easy to understand if you take the scriptures literally. Jesus said, “This generation…will not pass till all these things take place…” (Matt. 24:34). THEN He goes on to describe the things that would happen at the end of days explaining that no one will know when the time of “great tribulation” and His coming will occur, but that every one of us should be prepared.

Good video, Brother. Are you trying to say that what Daniel had to seal up is what John revealed as fulfillment of 70A.D.?

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

5 ай бұрын

thanks! My claim is simply that Daniel sealed up things because their fulfillment was centuries away. John kept some things unsealed because their fulfillment was near. But there was at least one thing that John sealed which implies strongly that the fulfillment of that thing was far off.

@james-cq3mi

5 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews You also forgot in (Revelation 20:12) the books were opened, the time was at hand, only the dead, of the just and the unjust were judged, which was the resurrection. The same resurrection that Daniel recorded in Daniel 12. You will be shocked when you try to prove your claim from the bible, that a physical bodily rapture would be possible in the future, of believers who are alive. Those dead in the first century were resurrected, "for no flesh should glory in His presence" "to live after the flesh" those alive were changed. “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men.” Just like those in Jerusalem who saw the sign of the Son of Man come in their lifetime, like Jesus said He would, and He again reminds us in the very last verse of Revelation. “Surely I am coming quickly.”

In your prior video on Matthew 24, you did not just affirm that it was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, you also stated that you believe that it also has a yet future fulfillment. Do you still hold to this "double fulfillment" of Matthew 24? If so, what is the exegetical basis for this belief?

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

4 ай бұрын

I’m open to being wrong about that. But my understanding of prophecy is that it often has an immediate fulfillment and later applications. I think a number of messianic prophecies work that way. I don’t ever say “double fulfillment”. I’m not sure the patterns are limited to two. Because I think prophecy is almost like a symphony with repeating patterns and movements. But again I hold that view loosely.

@fallsjd

3 ай бұрын

​@BiblicalStudiesandReviews Agree. Just like Hebrews 11 teaches us re Abraham -- God brought him to the land he promised, yet somehow Abraham understood that he was a "foreigner" there, that he was looking for a "better country - a heavenly one", "for he has prepared a city for them", whose architect was God. And so we too look forward to this "New Jerusalem" :)

Good video. I appreciate the partial-preterist position. Although I don't have a crystal clear understanding of Revelation (or the Olivet Discourse), I think it's clear there's an "already, but not yet" element. Just like a lot of things in God's unfolding plan. God's kingdom is "near", and yet it's not consumated. We are commanded to seek it first. We are declared "not guilty", are "seated in the heavenlies" (now), and yet we are commanded to "put to death" the things of the old self, to "run the race" and perservere (later). We have been "born again" (now), but have hope for a day when "I will raise them up on the last day" (later). I also appreciate the eschatalogical parables of Jesus, like the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 (especially since Jesus later in the chapter gives the interpretation! ) It's clear that at the time of the "harvest", the Lord sends out his angels to "weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." That certainly was not something that happened in 70 AD.

@royalpriest89

3 ай бұрын

Daniel and Jesus would disagree.

@fallsjd

3 ай бұрын

@@royalpriest89 care to elaborate?

@royalpriest89

3 ай бұрын

@@fallsjd Well very quickly you mentioned, "Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." That certainly was not something that happened in 70 AD." I said Jesus disagrees with that since Jesus is using Daniel 12:3 as His immediate reference and saying that time was HIS time. "Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever." Daniel 12 is referring to the resurrection, the end of the Old Covenant. All which happening in 70AD , along with the "shattering of the holy people" after a 3 1/2 year period Dan 12:7

@fallsjd

3 ай бұрын

@@royalpriest89 when you say the resurrection happened in 70AD, do you mean a literal resurrection? Re Matt 13 it says that the angels will remove "everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Evil and dark forces are still at work today, so clearly talking about something future to us, wouldn't you agree?

@royalpriest89

3 ай бұрын

@@fallsjd I mean the resurrection that was taught in the Hebrew Scriptures and reaffirmed by the New Testament authors- the resurrection. If you’re asking if I mean a resurrection where dead bodies come up out the sea, earth- then no. The text doesn’t say what your translation very loosely puts it as. A more correct translation to the Greek would be something like, “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness” Who did Jesus were the stumbling blocks? People who in the first century (usually Jews) who made life very difficult for Christians with their oral tradition and hyper-literalist interpretation of the Torah (Matt 18:5-7, Romans 14:13). Who practiced “lawlessness”, Again unbelieving Jews in Jesus’ day, “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt 7:23. They are the ones who were then burned up in the fiery furnace. The fiery furnace was Jerusalem which was set on fire by God’s army, the Romans who utterly destroyed the city and ended the age of the Old Covenant . That is the end of “this” age in Matt 13:40 by the way. So we see the time context demands at the end of their age, and the end of the age occured in that generation (Matt 24) so it cannot be future.

Great points to hold up partial preterism. But I have a question re 1 Thes 4 passage you mentioned. How does Jesus bring with Him those who have died (“sleep in Jesus”) if “the dead in Christ shall rise first” to meet Him at the time of His coming?

@allenfrisch

5 ай бұрын

I’ve always assumed those passages refer to the fact that believers will meet Christ “in the air” and THEN return with Him to rule the earth. So they are two different aspects of Christ’s return.

@jonathan711

5 ай бұрын

The language is a bit tricky, but if the dead rise and meet Him in the air they can only meet Him because He has already returned. After they meet Him in the atmosphere????…the only return that would be left is to continue down to the ground, which in itself creates problems. The initial statement makes it seem like those who have died in Christ will come from wherever He is…but then it says they will rise to meet Him. So that the challenge. It could well be that this is just all a bunch of figure language with no real literal intent.

@allenfrisch

5 ай бұрын

@@jonathan711 Well, the souls of dead believers ARE currently with Christ, but their bodies are buried or otherwise dispersed. At the time of the rapture their physical bodies will be restored to meet with Christ and living believers in the air. Whether Christ and the living and resurrected believers immediately return to the earth or if that happens 3 1/2 or 7 years later is debatable. Many Christians don't believe ANY of this will happen until after the millennial reign of Christ or that it's already happened or will happen symbolically in one way or another! Eschatology is mysterious for many legitimate reasons.

@anthonypolonkay2681

2 ай бұрын

​@@jonathan711 The first thing I think of is the fact that paul states that to be absent woth the body is to be present with the lord. So the immedeate interpretation I think of is Jesus comming back brings the spirits of all those who are dead "asleep" in him back to the earth, and their spirit is then rejoined back into their bodies as they resurect, and transform, so both the part of him brining those who sleep in him back with him, and the part of the dead in christ being resurrected to meet him in the air first can both be taken literally with zero contradiction. Seems pretty straitforward to me.

Not a full or hyper preterist but my thought is since Daniel was written around 530BC and when John wrote Revelation around 65AD the requirement to seal up Daniels prophecy and to bless the sharing of prophecy by John does not seem to be conflicting or should have us jump to any conclusions about them speaking about different events in biblical time. My thoughts pertaining to I Thessalonians 4:17 is that it lines up best with Revelation 20 and the Final Judgement after the short season where Satan is released. Which I do believe is biblically where we are today. (The short season) Blessed be to you JohnG

EMPHATIC is strong language! 1 Thess 2:19,20 “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even *YE* (emphatic) in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 20 For *YE* (emphatic) are our glory and joy.” Who are the YE in these verses? Is it not plainly seen? It is the original audience of Paul's letter? Both those “YE” s are emphatic! There is your proof of how the emphatic pronoun is used. And so when Paul says: “*WE* (emphatic) who are alive and remain,” (twice) he meant those very same living breathing people, and not ones centuries out in the future! Get it? And when he said: “But *YE*, (emphatic) brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.” “*Ye* (emphatic) are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.” And finally: “But let *US*, (emphatic) who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.” He just told them three verses back that THEM, THOSE PEIPLE, were of the day! THEY were to be sober, etc. How much clearer is it possible for the Greek to be??? He still, was meaning those living breathing people! Still...get it??? And so, the prophetic things he was writing to them about had to occur while some of those living breathing people were still alive. That's the Greek on it folks! And think about this: had Paul written anything to those people that might cause them to even consider that he was referring to people far out into the future? Anything at all? Nay not at all I say!

I'm not sure you have thought this through. You quoted a passage from Daniel 12 which is a very small chapter, "to close the book". You didn't even seem to notice in that chapter the indisputable evidence for a full preterist belief. I would hope that you are aware that this chapter in the only chapter in the Old Testament that talks about the judgment and resurrection of the just and the unjust, which corresponds with the second coming. Daniel records when the final judgment, and the restitution of all things in relation to His coming, the end of the old covenant and the introduction of the new would happen. Daniel's revelation records that it was precisely during the destruction of the temple in the first century. You also quoted (Revelation 10:6) and forgot that Jesus, the one that created the heaven and the earth, said "there will be no more delay." You also forgot in (Revelation 20:12) the books were opened, the time was at hand, and that only the dead of the just and the unjust were judged, which was the resurrection. The same resurrection that Daniel recorded in Daniel 12. You will be shocked when you try to prove your claim from the bible. A physical bodily rapture from the earth of believers who are alive. Those dead in the first century were resurrected, those alive were changed. • In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13) • For them then, that were alive , and for us that are alive “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men.” (Revelation 21:3) • And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Hebrews 9:27-28)

So you believe in a pretrib rapture because you mentioned left behind?

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

4 ай бұрын

I do not.

@TRUTHINCHRIST-cw8ke

4 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews oh ok good.

Brother, I love you, but I must respond very strongly to what you have said concerning what the Apostle Paul taught those people in his Thessalonian letter, that he had read aloud to those people by the way. When you say that those living breathing people at that time, went ahead with their lives, all dieing out, and now are still resting in their graves, waiting on what Paul told them was to occur while some of THEM were alive; violates and corrupts everything that Paul taught them! Not only that, it violates the integrity of the things that Jesus personally taught the Holy Spirit led Apostle Paul! There is nothing in Paul's words that would even hint at anything that might persuade them to think otherwise than it coming in their own lifetime. How could any other interpretation than the first century fulfillment of that event be comforting to THEM? Which he also said TWICE. I must stand firm on the clearly taught things said to those people who were hearing his words read aloud to THEM. I love you! Keep studying and praying on it.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

4 ай бұрын

Hi my friend! Just so I’m clear. Do you think there was a first century rapture?

@makarov138

4 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews The “rapture” is a modern false doctrine that began with John Nelson Darby way back around 1830. Prior to him, virtually no one had even heard about a rapture. It comes from the Latin “rapturo.” 1 Thess 4 and 5 are both referring to the one and same event; the coming of the Lord, or the Day of the Lord. The one that comes like a thief in the night. 1 Thes 5 and 2 Pet 3:10. Paul and Peter were in unison on its phrase. So, to answer your question directly, there is no such thing as a “rapture” in our texts. It's an invention of a 19th century theologian. Prior to John Nelson Darby who came up with his “secret rapture” doctrine, it did not exist! And it is a false doctrine that is not in the scriptures.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

4 ай бұрын

@@makarov138 I don’t hold to a secret rapture event either, but let ask it like this. Do you think Christians living at AD 69 were still around after 70.

@makarov138

4 ай бұрын

@@BiblicalStudiesandReviews I know where you are going with this. Let me say that I do not believe the scriptures teach a literal physical bodily resurrection. In fact, Jesus said that we would be like the angels. So the question becomes, do angels have physical bodies? Yet the scriptures teach us that they are in fact spirits that do God's work. And also, Paul tells us that what is planted, (the flesh) is not what is raised, (not flesh)! The question in my mind is: If God is shown clearly to have us “changed,” in order for us to be capable of living in heaven, then why have to change a physical body anyway. Fallen Christian believing soldiers in war dumped in the ocean became shark food, with no body to change. If God can surely handle that situation, why the need of a physical body? Some believers who were buried centuries ago, after having a tree grow up consuming all the “remains” in its growing, have left nothing to raise! I can find no requirement for a literal physical body resurrection. Not to say however, that there indeed were a few examples of freshly dead persons revived at the crucifixion of Jesus, cause there were. To demand a physical bodily resurrection, which cannot exist outside of time and space, implies that God is incapable of “clothing” our soul and spirit in a body fit for life in heaven. I do not believe that! But what does all this have to do with what the Apostle clearly and emphatically told those Thessalonians concerning what they were to experience? We must not get sidetracked from the original things Paul said. Let me simplify: 1 Thes 4 & 5, and 2 Thes 2 are all in the very same context. It is indeed MT 24 at the “gathering of the Saints.” I believe that those that had already died were “resurrected” into the “cloud” or Kingdom of God. And those who were still alive were also “raised” into that fully-established Kingdom of God, which the cloud represented. They were still however, in their physical bodies just as we are today. But none-the-less fully in the Kingdom as well. Just as we are today. But once they expired, their physical bodies were buried, and they were then “clothed” in the new bodies that are like the angels. Lot to take in I'm sure.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

4 ай бұрын

@@makarov138 it wasn’t a “got ya question”. I was just really trying to understand what you were saying. Some full preterists I think believe in a literal resurrection and catching away of the saints at AD 70, I think.

Think I have an answer to the controversy of John living well past 70 AD and the “Rapture” in Thessalonians: 1 Thessalonians 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: *_and the dead in Christ shall rise first:_* This is all in the spiritual. The dead in Christ, regardless of when someone dies, *_always rise before the living._* The Trump Of God is not heard until someone dies physically. John was not involved physically in the Great Tribulation, which involved ancient Jerusalem. John was exiled, but he was also protected. 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up *_together with them in the clouds,_* to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This is not a group Rapture. It is an individual Rapture one by one when we die physically. This is revealed in Hebrews 9:27-28. Every person will physically die once: Hebrews 9 27 And as *_it is appointed unto men once to die,_* but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; *_and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation_* Verse 28 reveals what Paul was really saying.

@michaelseay9783

Ай бұрын

So the Rapture is past, present, and future, a constant-infinite. Part of Eclectic eschatology, the mixing of (primarily) preterists and futurists views with some idealism.

Playing the heavy card right at the end. Not your best work. Have you interacted with some of the leading full preterists to see if your arguments have been addressed. Full Preterism or Fulfilled Eschatology has been in the open for decades now and many of your concerns have been properly addressed including the Hymenaeus and Philetus argument; even in the comments below here. The reformed and mainly Presbyterian leading lights have come to a very strong partial preterist position and have admitted many of the full preterist arguments - Heaven and Earth will melt etc.. So many still say they must believe - no scripture, even RC Sproul said in an interview, he believes but never qualified by scripture and as you do in comments below, that there must be multiple fulfillments (symphony etc.) of the relevant texts from Matt 24, and Matt 16 etc. a dividing of the questions asked by the disciples. This all based on what the early Church said (plenty of contradiction to sort thru there). We must find a better way a peaceful way to work through this material without resorting to heavy handed control of membership or fellowship. Too many keeping quiet or living fearful of what may happen if they speak up. They are good Christian women and men holding the truth of the Gospel trusting Jesus with their whole heart. Love br. David - Canada.

@johnjoyce1073

3 ай бұрын

What i like to know is why there is no church history, none, all we got are religious myths spoken by the great and powerful religious bishops, it's even reached back it dark arm into the sacred and annointed Peter pope++

Interesting topic. Personally, I think that the interpretation of the Bible that tends to say that everything in the past has already been fulfilled rests more on psychology: it's an easy way to avoid a problematic future...:-) I also think one of the strongest arguments against the claim that everything has already been fulfilled is offered by 2 Tim 2:18. Paul there links the statement: our resurrection has already occurred with the fact that it is a misleading doctrine, even comparing it to cancer (v17). Letter 2. Timothy was sent by Paul sometime around 67 AD. If the resurrection were to occur sometime soon after 70 AD, then it would be Paul who would be spreading "cancer"... A different, even more specific argument could be used in the statement, from Rev 17:8, about the beast that was and is not, and is to come out of the "abyssos". If John has been transported into the short future (i.e., to give you an idea: he writes this in 95 (or earlier) and is, say, transported to 150 AD or 180 AD, as it were, the first possible time Jesus could have come to earth again), then the Beast, with the destruction of Jerusalem for the NT "world", as it were, ends. The Roman Empire, of course, continued on, but it ends for NT-people. So for John, writing, as it were, from the near future, the Beast was and is not, but is about to reappear. This confirms the futuristic character of Revelation and, retrospectively, of the "little" apocalypse in Mat 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 chapters. There are more arguments "against" than "for", but I don't want to write out long texts here...

This comment will be long because you packed a lot of false presuppositions and mischaracterizing what full Preterist really believe. If the resurrection is past then you are the one teaching false doctrine. Since Christ and his apostles taught that Christ would return in the first century, including the resurrection, then you are teaching false doctrine or they were. Why is it that people would have fallen for the false teachings of Hymenaeus and Philetus? Wouldn't people just say look at the graves, and say no bodies have risen out of the grave or wouldn't Paul have said that? You said the fact that bodies have not risen out of the grave proves preterist wrong, are you smarter then Paul? The fact is the second coming, the resurrection, and the destruction of the old heavens and earth did not involve literal biological bodies , the literal heavens and earth (proven if you would let the Bible interpret the Bible), or Christ returning in a literal biological body. That is why some of them fell for it. In 1 Thessalonians 4 Paul told the Thessalonians that some of them who were alive would remains alive until the second comin ("we who are alive and remain). 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5, 1 Corinthians 15, and Matthew 24 & 25 are the same events with the same time indicators. The same proper hermeneutics that led you to conclude the Matthew 24 was fulfilled will lead to the same conclusion about 1 Thessalonians and 1 Corinthians if you will have to faith to believe them over orthodoxly and creeds. Why does Paul tell them to comfort each other with words about something that won't happen for 2000 plus years? Paul never teaching the resurrection of Biological bodies. Paul say the body sown is not the one raised. The living put on their spiritual incorruptible bodies. Our biological bodies were created to die. Christ did not die to overcome biological death. If he did he failed. Christ does not have a physical biological body today. Being caught up in the clouds has nothing to with removing of the church from the earth. The word Paul uses for meet is the word: ἀπάντησις apántēsis, It is used in the papyri of a newly arriving magistrate. "It seems that the special idea of the word was the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary" (Moulton, Greek Test. Gram. Vol. I, p. 14). The being caught up correspond to being changed in the twinkling of an eye Meeting in the air symbolism Christ defeat of Satan(Eph. 2:2). Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John," Revelation 22:6 "Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place." Notice John not told that some of these things must take place shortly. Also, John was told at the end of Revelation not to seal. He was not told in the middle and then told seal up the rest. He was told to seal none of it. The number 1000 is used symbolically in the old testament and never to symbolize a large number. It was the Jerusalem of Paul's day that was to be cast out. (Gal. 4:21-31, Matthew 21:33-46) Mystery Babylon was old covenant Israel which proves that the 1000 tear reign is over. The millennium ended in 70 A.D, which is when the Old Covenant came to an end. That is the time of the new heavens and new and the resurrection which was to occur when the power of the holy people was completely shattered (Dan. 12:1-7). In Revelation 10 John is to seal up what the seven thunders said. He is not told that he is to seal up because the time was a long was off. in fact, unlike Rev. 22:6 and Dan. 12:4 which God specifically mentions the nearness or farness, in Revelation 10:4 he does not. Even if it was, you wouldn't know what the thunders said anyways and The angel swore by Christ that there would be no more delay: Revelation 10:6 "6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer," Funny what gets left out. And don't forget that Peter said: 1 Peter 4:5-7 "They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 7 But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers. Clearly that means that according to Peter the resurrection of the living and the dead was about to happen when Peter wrote. I can give a whole lot more evidence that proves full preterism is the only eschatology that is consistent with the teachings of Christ and his Apostles.

@johnjoyce1073

3 ай бұрын

Are saying you are now perfect spiritually? Not waiting for the redemption of your body and waiting for it to die rot or be burned, so you can fly away somewhere free as a bird in your perfect spirit. Where will you go Do we go to hell When does the world stop, Where do all the invisible spirits live For me you have provoked too many new questions The time is at hand, the elect escaped and Jerusalem was powdered, the Jews were scattered and homeless 2000yrs explain that please. So as you said, it all happened in the time frame, it took 2000 years though

@ChristCenteredEschatology

3 ай бұрын

@@johnjoyce1073 “Are you saying you are spiritually perfect?” I am saying I have eternal life because of I have Christ’s righteousness accredited to me. I will not die. My biological body will cease to function and return to dust, just as God said it would. My biological body is just a house for my spirit that is suited for the physical realm. God has made my spirit eternal (through Christ sacrifice) and given me a new heavenly body that is suited for the spiritual realm ( God is spirit). *”Where do you go?”* If you have eternal life you will go directly to heaven the minute you die. That is because the way into heaven was opened at the resurrection and the second coming. Those who died before the second coming waited in hades until the resurrection, with the exception of the saints that were resurrected when Christ was(1st resurrection). *”Do we go to hell?”* If you do not have eternal life you will suffer eternal destruction (you will be destroyed and never live again), What this will be like I don’t know, but it won’t be eternal conscious suffering. *When does the world stop?* The Bible say’s the earth will endure forever and God said he would never curse the ground again. The world that stopped was the Old Covenant world (the old heavens and earth). Nowhere does the Bible teach an end of time. The Bible teaches a time of the end. The end spoken of is the end of the Old Covenant age, the one the disciples asked about. *”Where do all the invisible* *spirits live?”* They live where the invisible God lives. We call it heaven. The Bible does not tell us if heaven is near or far, but I believe it is right here in another realm. The elect escaped Jerusalem and live under the new covenant. The new covenant is eternal. There are no more Old Covenant Jews because the old covenant is no more. In fact, there are no ethnic Jews alive today. God has only one people and they are true Israel. The promise made to Abraham was fulfilled in Christ. All who have faith in Christ are adopted by Christ and are equal heirs with Christ. When God said something was at hand it was near in relation man’s understanding of time. Here is what God had to say about people who said something was near when he said it was not near: Jeremiah 17:16 “Also I spoke to the priests and to all this people, saying, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Do not listen to the words of your prophets who prophesy to you, saying, “Behold, the vessels of the Lord’s house will now shortly be brought back from Babylon”; for they prophesy a lie to you.” Jeremiah 29:9-10 “For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord. 10 For thus says the Lord: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.” According to God the false prophets were lying when they said the vessels of God’s house would be brought back shortly, when it was really going to 70 years. If equating 70 years with shortly is lying, what do you think equating 2000 years with shortly is? The new heavens and earth came after Mystery Babylon was destroyed. Mystery Babylon was Old Covenant Jerusalem, the one that existed in Paul’s day and was destroyed in 70 A.D (Gal. 4:21-31, Matt. 21:33-46).

@johnjoyce1073

3 ай бұрын

Being resurrected due to ad70 are you spiritually perfect and no longer sinful? No ot Jews, no ethnic Jew? Weren't they scattered in judgement? They are a nation again surrounded by enemies as b4, Is it a coincident they remained homeless gathered in Israel 2000 yrs later Why did Hitler want them dead Why does Islam want them gone

Whatever the Heavenly Father and Holy Only Son Jesus Christ did in the Past, they can do again. No one can read the Heavenly Father's mind. Keep the Book of Revelation open. Revelation 22- the Plagues in this Book can fall on people again!!! **** **Read it.******

Nothing in the Bible has not been fulfilled. Full preterism answers all the questions I've ever had and I have not come across any problems. I fail to see why you say about the passage in Thess that the ones alive had to be "snatched away". Not all, it simply means they were "transformed" in covenant standing- from death to life Nothing physical occurred.. The spiritual death they had had not fully been turned into resurrection until the Second coming. If Christ has not come a second time, then we are all still under damnation (Heb 9:28). I fail to see the point of this video. God bless.

@johnjoyce1073

3 ай бұрын

Are you now inwardly perfect and sinless? Are you able to explain what roll Israel plays today They were annilated crushed powdered scattered. Can you explain their existence as a nation?

@royalpriest89

3 ай бұрын

No I am not perfectly sinless, but to God I am. “Israel ”plays no role, except as a source of degeneracy and a psyop to more gullible and biblically ignorant Christians around the world. How to it come existence? Well it’s a long story but basically was created when reknown Satanist Baron Rothschild bought the land and with the cooperation of other major bankers around the globe, funded the movement. Then he recruited his known fraud, adulterer CI Schofield to create a Bible with heretical notes, supporting his newly created country. This is where the gullible Christians come in.. Modern Israel is the “state of Rothschild”, doing the bidding of the elite Luciferians and Christ haters

@royalpriest89

3 ай бұрын

@@johnjoyce1073 What does being "inwardly perfect and sinless" have to do with anything? Yes, Israel plays no role. Their existence of a nation is in large part to Rothchild

@johnjoyce1073

3 ай бұрын

@@royalpriest89 Everything if you have been resurrected due to ad70 and will never die. What's Rothschild go to do with it? Did the Romans destroy Rome or was it God's judgement?

@loganwillett2835

3 ай бұрын

So when Revelation 21 says: He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more, neither shall their be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away. Now is that referring to us right now? The world you see today? Or no perhaps it’s the first and second century Christian’s post 70 AD( the supposed fulfillment of this passage) who were brutally hunted, tortured, and murdered for their faith. You’re right that’s certainly not an issue for your position. And Christ being the first fruits of the resurrection in 1 Cor 15. Of course we know in Jewish culture first fruits were the first of their kind, that’s a culturally historical fact. So the death and resurrection Christ took on encompasses the same death and resurrection believers will see. Question, was Christ ever under spiritual death? Or in need of spiritual resurrection? One last question, how does your view that our world currently is the eternal state, jive with the scientific fact that our sun has limited energy and will experience a heat death rendering life impossible here on earth?

Preterists are time wasters like Calvinists (a lot are Calvinists) but worse. We are not in the new Jerusalem which is a literal city coming down to a literal new heavens, and earth, and there is a literal no more death. Revelation 1-12 happened 70 AD but Rev 13-22 is future. Rev 13 is the same as last country of Dan 2, and 7 which is modern Israel of the devil, and the mark of the beast is the hexagram. Based on the time statements the rapture happened 2000 years ago as did the second coming (which was not the final judgement in Rev 20- stop connecting them), great trib, remnant, man of sin, anti Christ). Rev 14 third coming, rev 19 forth coming but both times just killing no mercy. The apostles were dead before the rapture but a lot of the remnant (the 144 000 in Rev 7) must of got raptured. Revelation 1-12 was soon and at hand for those people 2000 years ago aka it was within one generation but rev 13-22 will be soon or at hand for us or a future generation. preterists are liars. there was a resurrection of the dead the day jesus died but there was another one prophecied within context of the first century AD but this was not the one in Rev 20 (which confusingly is called the first even though starting with the documented one the day jesus died is the second). so there must of been another resurrection first century ad

@allenfrisch

5 ай бұрын

Wow. That is some interesting eschatology! Sounds like someone took four or five different traditional viewpoints and threw them in a blender then added some unprovable nonsense to spice things up! The mark of the beast is a hexagram? I mean…maybe? But where does that come from??

@trappedcat3615

5 ай бұрын

Calvinists are "time wasters"? You clearly don't know your history.

@Sam-fp8zm

5 ай бұрын

its called the star of david in satanism for a reason. its to do with the bible. @@allenfrisch

@Sam-fp8zm

5 ай бұрын

you dont understand it because you are spiritually blind aka ignorant and uneducated. @@allenfrisch