VICE News travelled to deepest, darkest, coldest Finland to meet a father of six taking part in the experiment to see how its changed his life and speak to those who are critical of the trial. WATCH NEXT: VICE News' award-winning Charlottesville coverage - bit.ly/2wwQts8

@themanwnoname3454

4 жыл бұрын

VICE News 2019 “Respect and dignity.” Furthermore: (Vice) (Truth) >-< (Vice) • “Respect and dignity, 2019?”

So from millions of sane people in Finland, Vice manages to find the one crazy anarchist with a top hat doing wood carvings and beating drums, while having six children doing gymnastics in what looks more like a gym than a home. Bravo, Vice. That denial of reality must take some skill.

@JonasTheWhale

6 жыл бұрын

Markus you made me laugh out loud, great

@dehamerofthegod

6 жыл бұрын

oh right, they should have chosen a daily routine robot whose major concern is if their neighbours are doing worse than them or not, everyday

@m4rkm4n

6 жыл бұрын

dehamerofthegod If that's the average Finn, yes. But I doubt that. If you want to let one person speak for all Finns who receive that money, you obviously choose an average person with an average amount of children etc. who can represent most people, that most people there can identify with. Not some oddball.

@yxpila

6 жыл бұрын

Sorry Markus. Thats only my mistake. They really tried to find average finnish man(87kg/175cm, one tattoo...), who would have 1.7 kids, drinking vodka and fighting on nakkikioski® line at friday night. But it was difficult. Sadly the old good times are gone. So they asked if I could act as average finnish man. In the first scene shot I said PERKELE and started to beat my kids, but as soon they saw I will lose they quicly had to change the script. For the next shots in future I promised to buy suomiverkkarit® and karhuIII-cap® and look nice. Is that average or would I still need Leijonapaita®? ;) No, there is always needed one jester who has rights to tell truths out, so take it easy. I do so. One hat doesn't make a man, but man makes hats. We need to take steps and if men don't believe a man who has a hat, they don't anyway believe. So the hat is just a trap. Good looking trap. Trust me.

@mustbeaweful2504

6 жыл бұрын

Just speaking as an outsider here: the guy seemed fine.

Why is everyone so mean about this "crazy" dude? I'd love my children to be allowed to have a gym inside the house and be able to grow up in an enviromemt where you are able to be an artist and wear a hat all the time

@blake3474

4 жыл бұрын

Sameeeee. The dude seems awesome to me

@ZovniaO

3 жыл бұрын

Totaly agree.

Classic Vice propaganda, everyone knows Finland doesn't exist

@jerrykeranen813

6 жыл бұрын

WHAT I LIVE IN BIG LIE? DO i not even exist? :O

@lauri.lyijymaali

6 жыл бұрын

Reeeeeee

@hermanfrodit7442

6 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂👍🏻

@charleslegendasbr

6 жыл бұрын

🇫🇮 is a City nearby Rio

@TuomasRinne

6 жыл бұрын

Perkele!

So what, GTA gave me 400,000 for free for its anniversary

@mistersands339

6 жыл бұрын

Rafael Martin rolling in it

@ShaneH5150

6 жыл бұрын

400k in GTA 5 bucks? count your blessings m8 because now you can afford to buy a couple t-shirts... maybe even a hat to go with them lol

@koilamaoh4238

6 жыл бұрын

ah i was wondering why I had soo much money.

As a student drowning in debt, work, bills and relationship drama(with family members and friends) because of a lack of money, this would be such a massive help

660$ in a month is very small money, becouse living in Finland is very expensive, but obviously people in this comment section don't understand that.

@sygaos

6 жыл бұрын

Average salary in Finland is around 2500 - 3500 € or 3000 - 4000 us dollars.

The minimum wage is the only thing that hasn't increased with inflation

@Sp1n1985

6 жыл бұрын

satEurn Rings wage hikes are only created because women in the job market

@joecope9935

6 жыл бұрын

satEurn Rings actually, it's stayed between $6 and $8 (in real dollars) since about 1983. irregulartimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/minimumwagetofebruary2013.png

@Loathomar

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, it has. It is considerable higher now then it was between the late 80s and 2008. It is not as high as it was in 1970, but then that does not take into account state min wages, as only 21 states use the federal min wage laws, all other have a min wage about that, which is over 2/3 of the country by population. State min wages laws are far better then federal ones as the cost of living and average income from state to state has a huge range. Massachusetts has a GDP per capita of $65,545 while Mississippi has just $31,881. So, if Massachusetts has a min wage of $15/hr it is not really a problem as only a small percent of wage earners will be effected, while the same $15/hr in Mississippi will likely effect close to half the labor force, which will cause all types of issues.

@David325ful

6 жыл бұрын

If minimum wage was to be adjusted for inflation it would be around 20 dollars per hour and that's just a single person with no dependents. #foodforthought

@shake544

6 жыл бұрын

Finland actually hasn't got a minimum wage for jobs that don't have organized worker's union (ie. the employer doesn't have to comply with those minimums). It's pretty rare but does occur, especially with low-salary jobs, and most often with part-time work done by students and immigrant workers who don't know better. This results in lowering those pay checks even more. It's sad to see a situation where one does not earn enough even from a normal full time (40 hrs/week) job to survive, but hey, at least the neo-liberals are happy with the "flexible work force"!

This is the solution to automation. When people can't find jobs through no fault of their own are able to have a stable life they can achieve self-realization and innovate more freely.

@FaithRox

6 жыл бұрын

Sindrenk That's Universal Income, and it's entirely based on robots being able to design and build other robots for different tasks (because that will be the last job Humans will have).

@Odinintheflames

6 жыл бұрын

It will not be. You will get a carbon based energy money. You will get carbon credits that you consume on ALL aspects of your life. UN has set it to 1.5-2 tonnes per year Co2 that you can consume. Why you think they are hyping the "global warming" stuff. Read about technocracy. That´s your enslavement future.

@RJT80

6 жыл бұрын

Sindrenk It's not a solution but an invevitable outcome. This guy is a terrible example because he shows no actual business acumen and there is no proffer his 'businesses' are anything more than pipe dreams from a grown man acting like a child, but there are arguments to be made that a monthly stipend from the government instead of welfare and subsidies are a better way to go. But it is a huge experiment to undertake outside of a homogeneous European country with a small population.

@Sp1n1985

6 жыл бұрын

Odinintheflames 2017 too many people.. They should be dealt with

@jcf2322

6 жыл бұрын

First of all, there are strong reservations about the "no fault of their own" mentality, for starters there are a lot of jobs elsewhere, but people are reluctant to move. So while structural unemployment is a thing, people's needs and interest do not always line up, which causes a disconnect. If all a UBI does is subsidize unproductive work, then it will ultimately do more harm than good. Additionally, automation has always been part of work from the first agricultural farmers to modern AI. While some jobs are destroyed, new jobs are created in their stead, and that will be the same here. So long as people are willing to do stuff that people want, there will be work.

If my partner and I each got $660 a month, it would change our lives. It would pay our student loans, allow us to save/invest/start businesses. It would allow us the kind of stability we crave.

@eabaendallbeall7959

5 жыл бұрын

You should have gotten your degree in something more financially viable. Now you think the government should make up the difference.

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

ya, steal from people working hard so you dont have to, great idea

@ahishi5737

5 жыл бұрын

Ok, if I give you 660$ every month and you give me everything you get from investments, business and if you decide to save the money, I get it automatically. Sound fair to you?

@jonova3187

2 жыл бұрын

@@eabaendallbeall7959 Even those with those jobs are still struggling. Not great advice... especially when every job needs done

@jonova3187

2 жыл бұрын

@@gregoryeverson741 Your government already does that. Would rather allocate funds to help people live better. Isn't that the point?? If people had your mindset we'd be stuck in caveman times.

I think everyone hasn't realised just how much it costs to live in Finland. Lets just say it aint as cheap as most

@kingk2405

3 жыл бұрын

Bolvane Overall much less than living in the US . If you count a free access to a first class health service, top universities and subsidised canteens , child minding etc ....

@andrewdoesyt7787

3 жыл бұрын

@@kingk2405 dude if you actually think it’s less than living in the US your crazy.

@kingk2405

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewdoesyt7787 Living in Finland is cheaper than living in the US . Think of all the aspects of life and mainly the big expenses : Health , education , child minding and social protections and perks .

@jyrki2275

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewdoesyt7787 are you finnish? Täällä pärjää aika hyvin vähällä

@andrewdoesyt7787

3 жыл бұрын

@@kingk2405 education? Educations free in the US. Social protections? I don’t know what u mean by that? Sure health is a lot but dude living in fin is very expensive.

As a single mom with no assistance I worked over 70 hrs a week. never weekends off. hardly saw my daughter who went to daycare from 6am to 6pm. at night I would go to school to finish college my neighbor in same predicament babysat her and we turned I watched her kids. I needed up getting fired after 6yrs of this. i used my unemployment insurance benefits and am able to go to school fulltime and see my daughter and receive assistance now just a year away from graduating. I look in the mirror and what I look like at 24 I look about 35

@seahawk5532

6 жыл бұрын

M.J.Roots you are strong....keep it up :)

@eurydice7693

6 жыл бұрын

M.J.Roots YOU DID THAT BOO YESSS

@RJT80

6 жыл бұрын

M.J.Roots The two rules to follow to become self reliant are graduate high school and not have kids before you can afford them and are married or in a committed relationship. And when things get tough you act like a grown person and finish raising your children before you go your separate ways. This is common sense, and it is how people used to do things. You might not get rich but you won't truly struggle, either. The black community has a 73% single mother rate. It has doomed them and no amount of money will change that. While we focus on rich men kneeling and cops occasionally shooting a black person, the black community continues its decline. To talk about the issues is to be called an Uncle Tom or a racist. It's madness.

@annmcdonald7713

6 жыл бұрын

R T there are a lot of educated and employed married couples with kids who are struggling

@sanyaua2

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe the problem is not free money but single parent families. You shouldn’t make everyone else pay for your mistakes

This will eventually have to happen when robots do all the work

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

hint: the robots won't do all the work they've been saying this since the 19th century

@bluedragon4sho

6 жыл бұрын

that was before we had AI that could teach itself and autonomous vehicles.

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

they said that when simple machines that are obsolete today would put 95% of factory workers out of work

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

this is what i thought when i was an edgy 7th grade atheist "intellectual" robots will not do all the work fam, let alone in your lifetime

@Freyia935

6 жыл бұрын

Its been only like 60 years? Or what they have been saying robots will do all the work... How many years has it been when we said we are or we will land on mars? Quiet a few years... all within time...

Canada ran universal basic income on a small scale back in the 80's or something (dont remember timeline) but apparently it was very successful but it was buried and forgotten about for what ever reason.

@zertyzoo9493

5 жыл бұрын

In 2018, they tried it on a provincial scale in Ontario and it failed

@shauncameron8390

5 жыл бұрын

Alberta under Ralph Klein.

In Finland 660 euros doesn't even cover a small studio apartment rent usually, at least not in Helsinki. The people part of this experiment I suppose, still get unemployment benefits but the 'free money on top' of it. I actually support a basic income though, but I really think it could be lowered to something like 300-400 euros. It's not supposed to be your 'life support' it's supposed to allow people to save and invest money into personal projects. I've been wanting to start my own business, but as a student I don't have money for the initial investment - so I have to wait. I've taken some extra student loans to help the initial starting parts of my business but it's not reasonable at this stage for me to go into too much debt for it. With 300e extra capital per month, I'd likely already have everything set up in a couple of years. A lot of us poorer folk are amibitius and have good ideas, but without enough capital in this system good ideas can't be fulfilled. It's humn nature to want to fufill your potential, it's not human nature to want to be lazy at home.

@Baseshocks

5 жыл бұрын

You gotta look back at the 60's in the western world, it used to be a employees market, company's would fight over employees by paying them more money, you could get a labor job out of highschool and make enough to buy a house. You can control wages with immigration, flood a country with people and wages will go down, slow immigration a little and company's will be forced to give raises. Company's and the media use racism and diversity to keep the immigration numbers high so they can keep wages low. Immigration systems need to be overhauled.

And he spent his $660 on that stupid hat

But I think they're missing a big component that the tax comes from levies on corporations, who in this system also benefit as they don't have to pay for workers because they will have an increasingly cheaper automated workforce which can manage themselves. The biggest cost for any megacorp is labour. If you even just half that cost by replacing the workforce with robots, you could quite comfortably pay for UBI. If you pay so much in taxes and it comes to me in the form of UBI, then what have you lost? It's just gone around in a circle and stimulated the economy in the process. It's not a case of dreaming up money out of nothing for it. You just very efficiently reallocate resources you already have.

@asher_2789

6 жыл бұрын

great point, but one must wonder - when that day comes that the robots replace us, what will we do with ourselves? so many people derive their identity and self worth through their work. what will happen when theres no work to be done?

@planeofimmanence2157

6 жыл бұрын

💕

@curioussoul6059

6 жыл бұрын

asher 2789 Well, if the government gives you money for your job, and the robots do the work of the job for you, then you can go spend the cash that the robot earned for you to work at making your home's value increase :) buy things that enhance value, and create more prosperity in the world. If I got cash from the government, then I could finally spend more time on my garden and produce more produce, instead of getting depressed cleaning up a store (something a robot could easily do for me) to earn cash primarily for food/rent. As it is, I'm often too stressed out to work in my garden much when I get home from working all day/night.

@1337tiffy

6 жыл бұрын

the problem is big companies threaten the goverments to not raise the taxes or they just leave the country. they just have too much power and it is our own fault. I would much more love for some regional support so we don't ever have to depend on those stupid big shiets on the top making the rules. we could all benefit so more if we support our locals, the small and middle companies and stop sukking big companies dikks...

@fatbench

6 жыл бұрын

If corporations could just halve their labor costs by replacing their workforce with robots, they would do it tomorrow. They are not waiting for UBI to allow them to do so. I'm not so much frustrated by your comment in particular, but the fact that our collective understanding of economics is so lacking that UBI is even a conversation that we have is quite alarming.

This person doesn't represent the average unemployed. It's like you tried to combine a piece about shamanism and universal income.

@patches_kitty

6 жыл бұрын

xWood4000 I'm not following that. What do you mean?

@baloneyjusticecheezedog

6 жыл бұрын

He is at the same time the best example of what the program could help do... and the worst example of what the program could help do. Not everyone that is in the program is going to be able to do something like that program... Some it will help alot with... some it might caught problems to be in the program like help fuel a addiction. At the same time, someone people will resent the government for the program... others will love it...You the viewer needs to decide if this one guy is a normal example of poor Finlander... or a exemplary example of one.

@9yearoldepicgamersoldier129

5 жыл бұрын

@FBI I didn't know FBI is from my country

*Thats $15,840 over two **years.Id** put it away and save it and keep working the same*

@terrencetunnock9046

6 жыл бұрын

You could also invest it honestly. It's not enough to live comfortably, which is smart.

@ninja.saywhat

6 жыл бұрын

if you're employed you won't be eligible.

@artificiallyflavord5588

6 жыл бұрын

Just "saving" money isn't that bright. Invest it, help progress while increasing your wealth (if you're smart about it)

@nightrider3067

6 жыл бұрын

ArtificiallyFlavord "put it away" implies that.mutual fund,cod,ect.Remember it's $660 a month not 15k all at one time.

@AqierDesigns

6 жыл бұрын

well if universal basic income would come for everybody, not only the unemplyoed, jobs would give you less money. so yes you could save your money, but you likely wouldn‘t because you‘d have less income from your job. The full point of UBI is that you do not need to work just so you can survive, but you can work what you want, but that would come at a cost of job earnings, cause companies would instead of pay high wages to there employees, pay hogher taxes to the state, so the state can setup the UBI.

I hope people here realizes that the 560€ is actually much less than the basic unemployment benefits here in Finland. Reality is that the 560€ will not cover your rent, its hardly enough to keep food in your mouth and thats about it. Take a basic lesson about what you need to earn in Finland to live. Housing (Mortage or Rent) 1000€ month (Includes water and electricity in most cases) Food 400-500€ month Other things like toilet paper etc. 100€ month Transportation 100€ month in city area, 200-300€ month in rural areas + car Insurance costs 100€ month These are in most cases WAY under the real costs, for instance housing can easily double if you want an apartment near city central area and have need for more than 1 room apartment. In case you have kids for example. Insurance also can easily double or even triple if you have few kids, children daycare costs quite a bit as well. So dream on if you think this basic income is some type of highway to happiness. Its a good help for people like Juha in this video but it certainly is not THAT much money.

@myfinlandstory

6 жыл бұрын

Jesse Pylväläinen Very well said. 👍

@williamwikholm4258

6 жыл бұрын

näin on

@jopetti

6 жыл бұрын

Food 500e? You eat caviar every day?

@jopetti

6 жыл бұрын

Even in Helsinki you can have much cheaper rent (including water and electricity) than 1000e/ month, hahaha. More like 500-700e

@jessepylvalainen2288

6 жыл бұрын

nfmihlol You are talking about apartments that have government/city support behind it that are basically exclusively given to the poorest out of poor people. As for 500€ for food monthly, thats certainly not a whole lot, in fact if you eat a healthy diversified diet thats pretty much the bare minimum

Is an anarchist. Takes monthly stipend from the government. Great logic there.

@ymarw1684

6 жыл бұрын

I think he just allows his children to run around free around the house, not in the political sense

@x_x_6__

6 жыл бұрын

Well if you don't have a job (we have more unemployed in Finland right now than there are work places) and kids what else you gotta do. Are you saying anarchists should just let their kids die of hunger instead? Also, anarchism is about changing the system. Some actions governments take, anarchists see as good.

@StinkySkunk100

6 жыл бұрын

"Some actions governments take, anarchists see as good." lol

@sepijortikka

6 жыл бұрын

And where is the contradiction? One could see that basic income is a way to anarchism in a sense.

@Warsie

6 жыл бұрын

Joshua Steppling there is no contradiction.

Vice, can you do a follow up on why Finland scrapped this idea after the experiment demonstrated UBI does not cause people to be productive?

It is a fact that most jobs will be performed by machines in some 15 to 30 years, so we have to explore options like this. People might think it's crazy, but make no mistake it is happening.

@ToveriJuri

6 жыл бұрын

The kind of UBI Musk talks about is different from this one. The purpose of the Finnish UBI is to encourage people without jobs to go and seek even minimum wage jobs without the risk of losing benefits. In the current system you get more money on welfare than from minimum wage jobs. This will cost the government less money and incentivize people to find jobs The UBI you are talking about is the one that people like Musk are supporting. So many jobs will become automated in the future that it's not even realistic to make everyone work. There just won't be enough jobs to offer for people to make their living through work. The idea is that the benefits and the money gained from massive amounts of automation will allow you to support a society where people can comfortably live off of UBI.

@1337tiffy

6 жыл бұрын

Imagine you really want to be a baker, in the near future there will be no handmade breads anymore. Nowadays it is even hard to find them in most areas, because it is expensive and ineffective for the modern world. So what do you do? Do you work for some huge company where you just stand at a machine and sort the bread? Like do you think that is the way it should work? If you wish to knead bread for a living, put love in your products and still be able to afford making that you need some sort of support. Or just go and work as a cashier until programs like amazon go take that beloved job of yours because you always just wanted to become a cashier. Then maybe you can become a taxi driver , that was like number 3 on your top jobs i would do until the automated driving system takes that away. But sure there will still be plenty of jobs to do. who cares what you do if you just get paid. If you get paid enough that is because labor is expensive and paying a machine is always cheaper. But yeah just get money somehow right?

@MinttMeringue

6 жыл бұрын

We'll just switch up the job market again - think about it, society used to think nowadays we'd all be screwed because things like elevators would be automated and there wouldn't be any workers... we're fine though. We made new jobs. We'll continue to. Most economists don't seem crazy worried.

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

isn't there a value in itself say as in handmade loaf of bread ?i'd imagine wealthy middle class wrinkles their noses to some crappy tasting g.i.- bread roll@@1337tiffy

Hopefully Bernie sweeps in and we can get this in the US fun fact: Nixon proposed a universal basic income and it came hella close to passing!!

I'm disabled on Social Security Disability Insurance & SSI. I want to work. I miss working more than i can express, but my body doesn't allow me to do so. UBI isn't going to fix that for me, but if I'm ever capable of working again, I'd be risking my health insurance, food stamps, housing, and several other benefits, especially if I couldn't work full-time

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

if you can type and read, you can work

It's about time these experiments were picking up the pace, especially taking into consideration the current rates of mechanization.

Finland has like 60% taxes, they literally get no fucking money and everyone lives in the same small houses even if you’re working a way better job than your neighbors. I love American caplitalism.

@LazyOily

6 жыл бұрын

LOL. U love American capitalism. U must be very rich then. Or are just planning on being rich eventually, cause in America that's so easy? BTW, Finland's lack of McMansions isn't because we don't have money. It's for cultural reasons. We've only been rich for a few decades, and city plans don't change very quickly. You can't build mansions on a small lot. 101 years ago Finland was a part of Russia. There were 4 wars between 1918 and 1945, and they were in Finland, not Vietnam or Afghanistan. Many Finnish houses didn't even have indoor bathrooms until the 1970's. There was a major recession in the 1990's. We were poor, for a long time. But yeah, I guess Finland doesn't have mansions because of high taxes. Those high taxes did make us most successful country in the world, though. That's according to the Fragile States Index. What was USA's ranking again? Oh yeah, 21. And it also turns out that the best place to achieve the American dream is, in fact, Finland! washingtonmonthly.com/2013/11/18/if-you-want-the-american-dream-go-to-finland/ www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/nordic-american-dream-partanen/489032/

@diamondsarenotforever8542

2 жыл бұрын

Bull. Not true. I live and work in Finland . Never paid that much tax.

I hear the same argument against a basic income all the time: who is going to pay for it? There is a very easy answer: tax each company at the rate of automation of that company. A company only uses bots or machines? Tax a lot. A company is relient on a lot of people for its product? Tax little. In ancient greece they had a basic income for its residents because they had slaves doing the work. Now we have the same, but we use digital slaves.

@honkhonk8009

3 жыл бұрын

True. However people who think this shouldnt come from taxing automation are dumb

Why are they doing this? Because their culture is decent enough to make it possible, unlike America where people mooch and scrap for money amongst each other. Wish we could be better

@thecakeisalie6601

6 жыл бұрын

OmegaPhattyAcid even if it did work, which it wont, and if it was free, which it isnt, they wouldnt be singing this tune if millions were pouring in. No one grows up in a third world country dreaming of one day going to finland.

@kytodubstea2029

6 жыл бұрын

Finland is a third world country.

@shoulders-of-giants

6 жыл бұрын

You guys can't even regulate guns, even though people regularly walk around schools and shoot children in the head. So, why would you have social laws.

@atlas42185

6 жыл бұрын

Shoulders of Giants ".... even though people regularly walk around schools and shoot children in the head." Lol uh no they don't. If publicity was a representative sample you'd hear a lot more about people killing themselves or accidentally discharging guns than mass shootings. In fact if publicity of the gun situation in the US was a representative sample the first thing you'd notice is that the VAST majority of guns and gun owners are never involved in gun related accidents or violent crimes. If news coverage was an objective analysis of tragic events the gun problem would be a small component of a much bigger problem. But you're not being sold objective analysis on the problem, you're being sold human interest stories because sad shit is what gets people reading the news. I'm not passing any judgement on news outlets, just stating a well documented phenomenon in journalism. I digress, an astounding amount of violent crime committed with guns is drug related which is a mark on the failed war on drugs. The strict illegality of many drugs in the US creates the environment that fosters violence in the narcotics industry. If it were a legal business it would be sold like any other good with the added benefit of being subject to health standards, a benefit the government forfeits by punishing people for using and distributing drugs. In addition to that we wouldn't have gangs fighting over neighborhoods trying to grab as much territory in which to operate. Millions of people wouldn't be in prison for non violent drug offenses, and drug addicts could be offered facilities to both seek treatment and indulge under the supervision of medical professionals. All that gang violence would be gone or seriously reduced. All without making any changes to current gun ownership law. I'm not saying there is nothing to be don.

@baloneyjusticecheezedog

6 жыл бұрын

Finland is a mostly unified nation without deep cultural differences. there is far less distrust of each other vs America because they are a mostly closed off nation. Its not Native Americans Vs, white Americans, vs Black american, vs 3rd generation Americans Vs 1st generation Americans. Most of Finland is 4th or 5th generation Finlanders.. As such there is probably far less racial issue, and distrust from that, which is part of of why such a thing can be even agreed on. Its also far smaller then the united state, and far less developed too. With just over 130,000 square miles and a population of 5.5 million people . My home state of Wisconsin has nearly 5.8 million people in over 65,000 miles of state. Finally Wisconsin's home medium is about 55,000 dollars a year vs, Finland's 46,000 dollars. So everyone is 25% poorer in Finland then everyone in Wisconsin... the chances are this is having a huge effect on the economy of Finland yet because Finland is so small we have no way of understanding it and how it would work out in the US, or what amount of money we can give. It is interesting to see in part because regular welfare is quite the terrible thing.

Basic income would definitely motivate me to start a business. So far, I have to gradually work towards getting proper equipment while paying housing, utilities, insurance, food, and student loans.

When I watch Scandinavian Documentaries on Vice or any other media platform,most people in the country (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark) were able to speak English fluently without any problems while maintaining their identity and their own mother's tongue.I guess English must be a mandatory subject need to be covered in their education system. Based on this doc, it's not only Finland giving such help to the unemployed, but in my country Malaysia also have this kind of financial aid.Not only for the unemployed but for those who earned below the maximum or minimal salary pay.Every year,the MoF (Ministry of Finance)spend about millions of money to help the people who lived below the wages of poverty. About a hundred or thousand ringgits were aided to those B40 and M40 class to help them to ease their wages.The B40's mostly aided by the government through the ministry of finance. The total payment for the financial aid depend in which class and marriage status.

You can't live off of $660 a month. It's a supplemental income.

i imagine he doesnt has an higher education, yet his english is quite decent!

@TaMarAaQ

6 жыл бұрын

Jaeboy just depends on the education system your country has. In The Netherlands for example everyone gets English lessons from at least the age of 12 to 18. This is why almost every Dutch person can speak English. The school system in Finland is different from the Netherlands, but they must have a same sort of idea regarding to everyone learning a language

@klara7353

3 жыл бұрын

Such an odd thing to say, I know so many people who don't have higher education yet speak English or even another language alongside English, fluently.

UBI would be amazing for the economy.

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

would destroy it

@blake3474

4 жыл бұрын

I would love to hear both opinions lol

@Matt-pi2vc

3 жыл бұрын

@@gregoryeverson741 you don’t know economics if you think it’ll destroy it

Part of the problem politically with a UBI is the way it's discussed. The reporter goes from one segment where the interview subject says it's not enough to survive off of, to the very next segment the reporter asks the politician what are the politics of giving someone money just to sit at home. There is a baseless assumption that everyone who receives any type of government assistance will automatically lose the will to leave their couch. That's not how real life works.

Andrew Yang needs talk about Finland in his campaign.

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

Findland is small and WHITE doesnt have mass illegal immigration to scam the system or as many freeloaders, now try again @Lala open your wallet as far as you want for freeloaders, my wallet is closed

I'm that kind of Anarchist that takes money from the government...

The money was given to 2000 long-term unemployed, age 25-58, by lottery. And it´s only for 2 years. Only 14 months left. So wellfare refugees, don´t bother to come. You will not get anything of this money.

@GlennJericho

6 жыл бұрын

Too late. Obama passed DACA, allegedly only for illegals who arrived as children waaaayyy back, and then a month later (or as long as it takes to walk from Chilpancingo to El Paso, we had tens of thousands of bearded "10-year-olds" pole vaulting the border.

@IntarwebUser

6 жыл бұрын

@GlennJericho: What does Obama or DACA have to do with Finland? You do realize that Finland is in Europe, not the United States, right?

@sumosami

6 жыл бұрын

i agree. stay away :)

@creamy0bear

6 жыл бұрын

wah wah wah

@ToveriJuri

6 жыл бұрын

Michael Dust. Yeah please don't come. It's fucking miserable here. It's -40 degrees 9 months of the year the sun barely ever shines and 80% of the population is racist, extremely so. Sweden has rainbows and sunshine beautiful blond women dying to find an exotic looking partner. You will get pampered by the government and everyone will love you. If you are a welfare refugee Sweden is perfect for you Finland on the other hand is horrible and miserable.

Reminds me of a massive squatting house I visited where a group of 5 squatted and started making art and throwing parties. It was fun, young people hung out there. Then homeless people came in and stayed there with the youngsters, they started to make art too. Everyone was doing something nice and creative. They dove into dumpsters for food, they had legal council and help. One of them even sued a medical insurance company and won 5k. No one had a job, they were getting free money from the council. The 5k allowed her to see her child more often, definitely not to buy drugs. It seemed to work out for them. After two years the drug dealers and copper thieves were the only ones who still went there with a smile, the youngsters had fled very early on because it was a race to the bottom with people cramming wanting to live there for free with dogs and drug habits. They got everything for free, and it allowed them to dig deeper and further away from facing the worthless existence they had brought upon them. Piles of burnt unwanted art stuffed away in the garden. Besides stolen solar panels and copper. Because these open-minded hippies of course were planning to make the world a better place, and were going to use those solar panels to create green energy for their little community. Well, the panels were laying there between the broken beer bottles. The people who started the squat seemed to suddenly like having jobs and steady relationships, leaving their useless ex-housemates behind in free-stuff-land. What you get for free, you don't value. And even if you do value it, someone else will inflate that value for you :) Especially with currency.

Instead of a push for UBI, there should be a push to increase self sufficiency. This could happen in tons of small ways such as giving everyone solar panels so that they can remove themselves from the grid and be energy dependent or providing people with small automatic farm equipment. The problem with universal basic income is that it makes everyone dependent on the government, a government that may not always exist or have proper funds for all population sizes

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

America did try that, pushing for work, job training programs, last guy we had as President was murdered, JFK

A doctor in my country earns around that money.

I think this document fails to take a propper look into problems of current benefit system. Benefit abusers and simply lazy people get their money anyhow. They know the tricks and traps in the system and always find a loophole. Unemployed people turn down jobs because they would gain only little or even lose in process. You take one gig and your benefits are cut for like.. 3months? Some money appears on your bank account and you lose equally in benefits and retroactively too of course. There is absolutelly no reason to get any legit money at that point. This gains grey economy because people want more money. Suprise? Everybody knows someone who was or is in this situation. It's quite big. So you decide to run your own business after initial period you are basically on your own without safety nets of benefit systems. You can easily become more poor than as unemployed and many actually are. Also students are in benefit system second class citizens compared to unemployed in terms of benefits. Why not equal? They don't have powerful unions that would shove their money from state chest for their members like workers unions do. Students can't really strike so it's given that this is how it just is. It really boils down to: - Removing twisted benefit system and bloated byrocrazy - Universal income will benefit everyone equally. - Eradicate grey economy - More taxes. - Equalize rich and poor - Higher living standards. - Make unions more reasonable in terms of power they have - Take some of that money out of their money loop.

@PHlophe

6 жыл бұрын

Yanne, that was too long and I got the gist circa 4th line. No at least in most of the EU, here is how it works . you are employed ? you've contributed you get get some dosh to get by and truthfully if the short term gig isn't anywhere near what you are getting from state to stay afloat it actually makes sense to not take it. The amount of money you ger retroactively depends on the country's legislations. The benefits system is there because we all pay into it the same way we shell out our hard money for the NHS or CAF if you are in France. both HAVE to exist.

@infiltr80r

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Had family members turn down jobs because they'd get the same amount in benefits. And if that position was eliminated, now he'd have much less in benefits. It's a failed system.

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

dear Janne. there's a solution ! vote for PerusSuomalaiset and see the joy and laughter drain but 'law and order' blooms. yack

We hate these kinds of guys like juha who just stay in home doing nothing for the society and even calls himself an anarchist. The major problem with the basic wellfare is that there is always too many freeriders who choose to stay home because they dont have to work

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

then feel free and vote your kinda narrow politician

We get this too in Germany. Unemployment and or welfare is €400 in most states and u get ur apartment paid also up to a certain square meter but have to pay for ur own electricity. It’s a way to keep poor & disadvantaged people off the street . Education is free , college , university is free but u have to pay for ur books. Healthcare is also free and there is a €5 fee for scripts , unless ur one of those €400 a month people, then that is also free for u .

*>Anarchist* *>Jobless* *>Gov pays him money* *>Suddenly is able to work*

@bobopaapoe1774

6 жыл бұрын

Mentally healthy people do not like sitting around having nothing to do, who would have thought?

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

it is my blessing and dare to say many others too for not reaching thus high a state in mental health as like u Bobo@@bobopaapoe1774

This video didn’t age well.

It's really weird. They plan on replacing the current system with a monthly sum of 660 or something. But they experiment it with giving people 660 on top of the current system. Seems like a shitty experiment in my eyes.

for a few years i was unable to work and was receiving about 600$ a month (half of living cost) and even tho i could have easily done nothing and still live comfortably, humans are not designed to do nothing. when we do nothing we start to feel like we're dying. so i found myself busy each day helping neighbours with things like painting, gardening, repairing, dog-sitting, errands, etc...all for free of course but sometimes people were so happy that they insisted to pay me a lil something. so basic income is a positive thing. maybe not for everyone but for some people it would actually save their lives and make a more interactive community.

An Anarchist relying on the government..... YEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Being active does not equal being productive

@infiltr80r

6 жыл бұрын

But being active creates opportunities to be productive. Forcing someone to do nothing eliminates any chances for productivity.

The concern is not financial, it’s the unintended consequences welfare had on family planning. 50 years of this idiotic experiment has been the breakdown in the two parent family in marginalized groups. In the USA, a child without a father in the home is 20x more likely to end up in prison than one with a father.

To all the people that are struggling to understand---the "free" money is going right back into the system through taxes for good. This is a positive way to stimulate the economy and to give unemployed people an incentive to be innovative. Only foolish people think unemployed people are effective their lives. We pay taxes to make sure life is safe and functional for all people.

Today's economy I agree with something like this in US but in exchange they'll need to completely get rid of ALL the welfare government funds. Also, have a plan where this will supplement a minimum wage so it will help increase minimum wage signifcantly.

@KnolltopFarms

6 жыл бұрын

So, you're saying you don't understand, or you have no design for a transition, or that you are a part of the divisions based on wealth? Please explain your views, thank you.

@Kas-yw5fe

6 жыл бұрын

I think this will promote hiring on all levels, where no minimum wage is needed considering minimum wage is a government policy. Also, I believe in people believing in their own self-interest, providing them a starting point in life instead of living on the streets in a sad environment relying on bureaucracy (socialism) to meet their needs. We already have an institution to handle all this and they're called the IRS, one line tax credit from the government to citizen. No bureaucratic clutter in the middle.

@Kas-yw5fe

6 жыл бұрын

There are already a ton of jobs, the problem is hiring and having the government back off from forcing them to raise minimum wages. Or corporation lobby government to make minimum wage an excuse to hire less so they can increase production through increasing automation. Who knows, but fact is everyone should have an income considering all this money corpations are making through automation and cheap labor overseas. imo

@Loathomar

6 жыл бұрын

Fundamentally, a basic income would remove all need for a minimum wages. A minimum wages is designed so that all working people can earn enough to live off. Effectively, people have to work to live, but once you remove the requirement to work to live, the need for a minimum wages is removed. With a basic income, if a job offers too low wages, no one will take it. Though, the first then that needs to be done is to simply change the US tax system to stop taxing labor. Currently the US tax system heavily supports automation, as not only is the cost of automation a tax deduction, companies are force to pay payroll taxes for all employees. If there is an automation option that cost $50K/year and can replace one person who will get paid $40K/year, the tax and healthcare system in the US makes it cheaper to automate. The person's healthcare that companies now have to pay, cost ~$10K and payroll taxes which is 6.2% of their pay employers need to pay onto of the pay to the employees. Once the person is fired or unemployed, the government pays for the healthcare and gets less tax, so the government is incentivizing unemployment with a tax and healthcare system that makes in cheaper to automate.

@theuglykwan

6 жыл бұрын

Ek Dra Plakkies "Charity doesn't work, food aid to africa for example. 40+ years of it hasn't done anything to help, if anything more people have died because of it than would of if there wasn't." Why do you say food aid doesn't work? If the aim of the food was to prevent them starving at that point it worked. Can't really expect food aid to have any further effect after it has been digested.

We are definitely going to have to get more creative about income when the robots take all the jobs. AI and advanced robotics will take most of them. Customer service jobs? Forget about it. AI and machine learning will do it far better especially where speech isn't involved. Doctors. Forget about them. AI to interact with patients that has the entire worlds medical knowledge in an instant to diagnose and treat. Bin men? Forget about them too. Driverless bin lorries with QR codes on the bins. Either every person will live a free and beautiful life forever or wealth inequality will reach new heights as never before seen in human history.

He's an anarchist who takes government money. He has 6 children he wants the government to support so he can pursue his dreams. Hmmmm sounds adult to me.

Instead of giving them money, why not just pay for their business endeavors?

its called positive taxes , if economies and automation continue to grow many countries will introduce it

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

hahhahahah

$660 won't make you chill out if you have 6 kids, and at least one dog. But if you have no kids, or other major expenses then I would guess you can live fairly easily, especially because you do not need to worry about health care cost.

@RJT80

6 жыл бұрын

Levi That wouldn't pay for rent.

@bingbong9004

6 жыл бұрын

not in Finland my dude

@myownsite

6 жыл бұрын

My rent is under 300€ in Finland. Completely doable and I've lived on less as a student.

@KristianKumpula

6 жыл бұрын

Actually healthcare isn't entirely free in Finland. I don't remember the exact figures, but within a certain period of time you may have to pay up to a maximum of about 600 euros in hospital fees.

@Roi8Arachnide

6 жыл бұрын

Finland is one of the most expensive countries to live in, you can't take the amount without comparing it with the cost of life there.

Bigest thing in this is that you can start your own business easier and thay way you can create jobs for people.

In developped nations about 30 to 40% of people either don't work or do a useless job, once we reach about 80 to 90% then this system will actually increase GDP

@gregoryeverson741

5 жыл бұрын

the easiest jobs to automate, are the jobs that pay the most, DR.s, Lawyers, Politicians

There is still someone else having to pay for this sh*t.

@voteclassicprogressivelibe2726

6 жыл бұрын

we are already spending that money NOW, this UBI would be a better, cheaper, and less intrusive option than we have now in the USA.

@valtteri1520

6 жыл бұрын

58% income tax... if you were wondering so around 3.8 million if I were to stay here for my whole life..

@wardeni9603

6 жыл бұрын

In Finland people pay taxes, and those taxes are used to improve their collective living standard. In america and most other purely capitalist countries people pay just as much if not more taxes, but all that tax money goes straight to some fat man's pocket. So, think about that.

@7rICk

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's why it's fucking called society, the ones ahead have to do their part for the ones behind so we can all move forward in the best and most optimal way but I guess a dumbass like you and the idiots upvoting you aren't able to see the bigger picture. Sad

@99batran

6 жыл бұрын

F T L i dont think you would understand the deeper meaning behind that message. I never said it was bad, nor it was good. But i was pointing out that this system would also be at an expense of someone else so it is not truly a perfect system. And also, from ur statement, i could also argue that society did also survive and moved forward all this time without UBI, it is not all just two directions of going back and forth on a line. If I am trying to point out or regard the less fortunate people of this system, and you dismiss it before calling me a dumbass, then i think it is hypocritical to say i cannot see the bigger picture.

Those drums are beautiful. 🎶

@ZovniaO

3 жыл бұрын

does he have a website for purchase

"...for what greater wealth can there be than cheerfulness, peace of mind, and freedom from anxiety?” ― Thomas More, Utopia

This just in everyone rent or mortgage raised 660 bucks a month

"lmao i make like drums i need money or i won't make drums:((" "but that would create inflation which would cause a mar-" "Shut up drums lmao"

bankrupt!

This’d never work in the US. People here just don’t have work ethic unless it’s toward their own businesses.

You can barely live in Finland with that money. It helps so people don't live in the streets and have a better chance to get jobs.

Why does the government have so much money? How about lower the taxes? Why would I get up in the morning if I got a basic income and risk my life doing a dangerous job? Again socializam is great until you run out of other peoples money!

@asher_2789

6 жыл бұрын

the idea of basic minimum income is EVERYONE gets it. this experiment is only about the unemployed, however - if done the way it was designed you would also get the same check the unemployed person gets, PLUS your wages from your labor. it would raise your standard of living, you'd be getting a check for "doing nothing" and a check for working. and theoretically, solve some unemployment problems caused by unemployment regulations for current benefits. have you ever been unemployed? if not, you have no clue. one, in america, you pay into unemployment benefits while employed, so its not a benefit for the "lazy" as some say. when you go to collect, the rules are crazy. wanna start your own business? if you make too much money too soon (and too much money by the regulations is barely enough to survive on, btw), you lose your benefits PERMANENTLY or until you get a new job, hold onto it for 6 months, and lose it again. offered a part time job? youd be crazy to take it, because you would net LESS money by working part time than what your benefits pay. its not that people are lazy. its that the rules are fucking stupid and self defeating.

@1337tiffy

6 жыл бұрын

Most dangerous jobs pay better that is why you do those and maybe even because you like doing it?... sure take away all the money so we can get them fukkers to do the dirty work... do you think sometimes? american much?

@davidcobra1735

6 жыл бұрын

1337tiffy Is calling somebody American supposed to be an insult or something? Also you sound like a moron actually. Yes take away the money and get fuckers to work.

@1337tiffy

6 жыл бұрын

it's just that privatization(goverment gives away lots of property as he said:"Why does the government have so much money?"), lowering taxes (as he said"How about lower the taxes?") and a kind of anti-social more capitalism thinking (as he said"Again socializam is great until you run out of other peoples money!") is an american thing. but you probably already knew that. you just wanted to call the comment writer a moron (as you said" Is calling somebody American supposed to be an insult or something?"). touché my friend.

I'm moving to Finland

@Odinintheflames

6 жыл бұрын

You will not get any of this money.

@RJT80

6 жыл бұрын

You have to have something they want. A marketable skill. You aren't Mexican and this isn't the Southern border where we will defend your right to enter illegally.

@oJoJo

6 жыл бұрын

Haha no thats not true you have to be an finnish citizen, that means speaking the language, military service and have Finnish family or being married with a Finn other wise you are an immigrant

@sisu4134

6 жыл бұрын

Dang, my great-grandparents are from Finland but I honestly don't think that would be enough...oh well

@snarf9455

6 жыл бұрын

Go get your gibs elsewhere I'm allready paying too much taxes

Free money is never free. It has to come from somewhere. Called the hard working taxpayers.

Leave it to vice to find one outlier and create a shoddy story about a social experiment around it. Clickbait much?

Dont bet on this having to work in America...

@ronaldckrausejr7762

6 жыл бұрын

Actually it is unfortunately already working for quite the number of americans. Soon there will be 1.5 million households living in public housing - over five million people. Amount of people on some form of government assistance (besides items such as chip) easily exceeds fifty million. The most interesting stat for america... Less than one half of all living americans will never effectively retire

@kinsmed

6 жыл бұрын

Nope. Universal health care works everywhere EXCEPT here. Funny...

@FishFind3000

6 жыл бұрын

There already doing this, just handing out the money.

@dogguy8603

6 жыл бұрын

chas ames Well besides the the wait times in Canada, the shitty doctors and the fact it is not free or truly universal then yes

@Meowblivion

6 жыл бұрын

It already is. It's called *U N E M P L O Y M E N T C H E C K S*

It will be beneficial to the economy aslong as the country doesnt have a drug problem

@promontorium

6 жыл бұрын

Truth.

@IMLYINGISWEAR

6 жыл бұрын

Wrong. "Free money" is detrimental to the economy if everyone gets it. Inflation will spike dramatically. You know what happens when everyone gets a free $600 payment? It turns into a zero dollar payment.

@allisondoak9425

6 жыл бұрын

The drug economy is still part of the economy

@allisondoak9425

6 жыл бұрын

SLUMLORD if you print more but inflation is determined by how much money is in circulation at the most simple point.

@leetlikelime

6 жыл бұрын

+SLUMLORD there is no such thing as a free payment. Taxes paid for the UBI, why can't you understand?!

Looking forward to seeing the result of this experiment on their economy & the attitude of their citizens.

Hey look, they found the one guy who actually has the motivation and drive to start his own business when he gets a bit of free time. We have the same thing here. For every person that actually wants to do something creative and start an actual business, there's several thousand people who don't/won't .

@7rICk

6 жыл бұрын

Pulling statistics out of your ass, an art form on it's own !

🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮 SUOMI!! 😍

@saromsalt1375

6 жыл бұрын

Oot kaunis :)

@sisu4134

6 жыл бұрын

Nikke DosE - ahhh kiitos 😊

Finland has a population of around 5.5 million which is about 2 million less than new York city also the government should not be giving out money to anyone no strings attached there should at least be a show of outside income other than the money being given within a certain amount of time

@theuglykwan

6 жыл бұрын

If they did this and took away other forms of welfare they'd prob make a net saving given how generous they are with other stuff. $660 is sufficiently low in Finland that you'd be induced to work to survive.

This doesn't work on un educated societies. Here in Argentina we have this, and people just sit around doing nothing, and having more kids to have more income from the government. In Finland maybe, definitely not in the third world.

The United States already has universal basic income for seniors. That's basically what social security is, right?

bread & circus while the big wigs make off with the millions and billions

@iancornell141

6 жыл бұрын

Mikhail Zavarov why don't you become a "big wig" so you can take care of all the poor? Free market at it's best

I'm beginning to think that Americans r the ones that are getting left behind.. and with Donald Trump in office we might as well be back in the damn 1800s

@davidcobra1735

6 жыл бұрын

redrum murder Trump fixed the economy. Funny how you live on another planet.

@roseblack6342

6 жыл бұрын

wow david other planets are habitable!? how did he get there?!

6 kids, and jobless... a responsible adult there!

@shauncameron8390

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds like exactly what Karl Marx was.

There is a ripper podcast in the series 'conversations' by the ABC that covers this topic soooo well... listen to it

Great move. This will empower finland and its people as a whole. Money is power, and the world is bigger than one country.

These comments suck. Thumbed up the video, though. It's pretty cool.

I think that in order for UBI to work. Governments have to switch from taxing income, to taxing spending because, not everyone will work but everyone would still spend and those that spend more on luxury items will pay more into the system. I think UBI will be a natural progression as machines take over many jobs but companies that use robotics will also have to pay some kind of tax to help the systems as well.

I live in Finland and I have never heard about this...

@leetlikelime

6 жыл бұрын

perustulosta ollaan puhuttu jo aika kauan.

They don't want to work, they just want to bang on their drums all day

@EmbodimentOfZikkurat

6 жыл бұрын

I think all people want to work, it's just nobody wants to work like a slave

@junaidkhan-vz5br

6 жыл бұрын

PalmParadise right

@voteclassicprogressivelibe2726

6 жыл бұрын

test results from basic income pilots done in india, africa, and canada have proven that notion largely wrong.....But I think you were trying to reference that one song, right?

@BeeHash

6 жыл бұрын

Vote Classic Progressive Liberal and Save America yeah just a lil joke. Not my hardcore political beliefs

@kytodubstea2029

6 жыл бұрын

Those drums are some real craftmanship tho

The money has to come from somewhere. It's always someone else having to pay for all this in expense.

@jerrykeranen813

6 жыл бұрын

Dude we already pay more than that! that is only cheaper to our country than paying those other benefits and now they can work also without losing it win win...

@ToveriJuri

6 жыл бұрын

Because this document piece fails to explain the real situation. he universal basic income has been devised by a right wing government as a reform to the current welfare system. The current welfare system already pays people to sit at home. Not only does it pay for them to sit at home the bureaucracy behind it encourages sitting at home. Opportunities to find jobs and education are bottlenecked by a threat of losing welfare money The idea behind the universal basic income is to encourage people on welfare to get a job because they don't risk going on net negative benefits by finding a job. UBI will cost less for the government than the current welfare system. Leftist parties are against the UBI.

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

basicly our (scandinavian wellfare-society) sees the governements duty is not harm people needlessly more than this shitty world does anyway by default

1:04 He sort of corrected him there and it sounded so awkward. XD

@3:15- when is the last time you heard that statement about the MAJORITY of Americans on Gubberment assistance. Instead, they treat is as a lottery ticket to be abused at every opportunity

if it's getting nationwide, why don't just cut the taxes instead? it does the same thing

@jerrykeranen813

6 жыл бұрын

How are you going to pay sick or unemployed people if our goverment has no tax money? And it is not same thing how can you cut taxes from people that dont make money?

@ektehenning7818

6 жыл бұрын

Jerry Keränen if this experiment is getting nationwide, that does mean higher taxes. No doubt. So instead of doing that, why not just don't raise the taxes, is what I meant. I also never said that they should not pay taxes?

@jerrykeranen813

6 жыл бұрын

And we have so many socialistic programs that we need tax money :D it is better that things are paid ioff 1 big pile of money so all get benefits all the time and it is cheaper that way for the individual.... We do not have people sleeping under bridges and everyone gets their medicine, education, housing and food if needed. This lovers crime rates and helps business to make money because people do better in life and yeah you get it brings tax money :D We are not capitalist country where people take care of them self and no one helps others :D

@ektehenning7818

6 жыл бұрын

wtf i never said to not have taxes. Read my comment again. Also Finland is a social democracy, it is capitalist.

@jerrykeranen813

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah but i only explained why would that money not go in waste and why we do not have to raise tax if this goes nationwide :D And why we just cant lower our taxes to match that 660 e... We might have some language barrier here other one is not getting other one point :D And we still need that sliding benefit system that people could take job for them so they would loose same amount of benefits as they are earning more money, now there is strict amounts you can earn and then benefits drop if your earnings goes over by 1 euro (not this 660e other benefits).

Now everything will increase in price

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

"but muh free money"

@promontorium

6 жыл бұрын

Based on what? When you raise the minimum wage prices go up because labor costs more. If the government taxes X amount of money, and then they decide to just give it to the people instead of blowing it on paying their friends to do "studies" or build shit nobody needs, or spending it on other welfare programs then there's no direct economic reason for prices to increase. Businesses might decide that since people have more money, they can afford to spend more on products, and that might work.. if they have no competition. Buses, cable-internet companies might get away with it, but how the hell would anyone else? Prices are set by competition. The first guy to raise prices will lose business to the people who didn't raise prices. And if everyone raises prices, China isn't, so people will just buy more Chinese products, still forcing the others to lower their prices. There is also the fact that more people with more money can LOWER prices because they can buy more. Bulk is always cheaper because it increases efficiency. The lack of people with money, empty seats at restaurants, empty space in trucks, products rotting on the shelf all cost businesses money. If more people have more money, they spend more, products move more, space is filled up, that saves businesses money, they can lower prices (or pay their employees more, or hire more employees). Increased efficiency is always beneficial to an economy.

@32stevo

6 жыл бұрын

you forget about supply/demand though.

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

more people with more money would imply money comes out of no where. taxes equal less people with less money in case you forgot

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

maybe i'm wrong. maybe we should set income taxes to 400% and give it all to homeless people because then "more people would have more money" like fucking obviously more money is a good thing

Couldn’t afford any. Got a circus in his house.

Only thing I can say is, if your business ideas aren't enough to live off of, perhaps that's a sign that there's no demand for that...

I hear the migrants running . . .

@m.w.6526

6 жыл бұрын

Hopefully Finland will keep them out. It will ruin such a beautiful, but delicate, welfare state.

@Hobyosultana

6 жыл бұрын

There's already loads of migrants in Finland. Not as much as Sweden but they're present.

@theuglykwan

6 жыл бұрын

Well if the people like this and it comes under strain due to migrants then this should increase sentiment to limit migration as they want to keep the system sustainable.

@AlmaNaakka

5 жыл бұрын

haha. like yor sarcasm man@@m.w.6526

How can government give something in free to its citizens?? There must be some motive behind this because it never happens in Real world.

@Odinintheflames

6 жыл бұрын

They have to lend the money.

@davilip

6 жыл бұрын

No they don't. Its paid for by taxes.

@kinsmed

6 жыл бұрын

The money is always paid out to goods and services. Unlike the rich that ship the money offshore.

@ThankGodForAtheism420

6 жыл бұрын

I heard that some country in the middle east also gives money to their citizens...too much money in the oil business.

@stoopid6036

6 жыл бұрын

>take money from all people >give all people money GEENNUIUES EKKONOIMCICSSZZZ GUYZZ !!11111

Already got this in australia except each person gets $1000 a month.

This is being given to people who are unemployed who would get money like this anyway so the cost is not very much. The difference is that if they get work they do not have to declare it to the welfare office. They are actually incentivized to get work because it does not cut their benefits. So more work will get done even at low pay rates. Some people may choose to care for their elderly parents and thus take some relief off the state which might have to care for them otherwise. The silliest comment in the entire video was the guy who said that if higher earners have to pay more in taxes they will be less incentivized to work. When did raising taxes on high earners ever lead them to change their behavior?