Great video! That archetypes video was my first scripted video I made, and there's a LOT I wish i could change, and this pretty much addressed all my gripes with my own video!

@user-of5pz5wz7o

2 жыл бұрын

Why has no one replied

@steezyastro

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-of5pz5wz7o Because no one wants to

@FastJohn443

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-of5pz5wz7o reply for what?

@danielm5161

2 жыл бұрын

There is a category that doesn't get pointed out so often that I call "Wizard" or "Mod" characters. These aren't wizards in terms of their design but they have tools that would be considered a glitch relative to the framework that the rest of the cast sits in. Faust and Bedman are good examples of this in Guilty Gear. Many Puppet characters and Composite characters are a sub class of the "Mod" category. To be clear, "Mod" characters may not have teleports, composite or puppets...it's that they have some mechanic that sits outside of the framework that all other characters must obey.

@FastJohn443

2 жыл бұрын

@@danielm5161 I've never heard of this archetype before. Aren't these guys just unorthodox characters?

The important characteristic of a tatsu is that it's projectile-invincible, so I define a shoto as anyone who has: - A projectile - An anti-air reversal - A tool that punishes projectile spam in some way Mario is a shoto.

@espurrseyes42

2 жыл бұрын

Super Jump Punch is more of a combo tool, not an anti-air reversal. If you want to be a bit more lenient though, it has offensive use (combo ender) and defensive use (recovery).

@seanmyster6

2 жыл бұрын

Power Wave = projectile Rising Tackle = anti-air reversal Crack Shoot = anti-air reversal + low projectile punisher Power Dunk = anti-air reversal + mid projectile punisher Fire Kick = mid projectile punisher Terry is officially the shoto-est shoto that ever shoto'd.

@espurrseyes42

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanmyster6 Rising Tackle is a Charge motion, so he doesn't count.

@seanmyster6

2 жыл бұрын

@@espurrseyes42 KoF '98 begs to differ.

@Fungus402

2 жыл бұрын

So is wolf a shoto?

"Honestly if a character is a ninja they're most likely a rushdown character" *Shows Sub-Zero who is notably defensive over anything* Better pick for a rushdown MK ninja probably would've been Reptile

@CodyRockLee13

2 жыл бұрын

For what it's worth, he specifically showed Sub-Zero from MK11 (that may just be Hydro showing the most recent version of the character more than anything, but hear me out). In that game, custom variations exist and he has tools for zoning, trapping, and general defensive play depending on which moves are chosen as part of a variation which, as you say, he's known for (though I would even argue he's more of a counter-zoner than an out-and-out zoner/defensive character). However, he also has rushdown and mixups inherently in his kit--meterless combo tool in his Ice Ball from an unseeable low, an overhead that leads to a knockdown leading to oki, and a very fast, long-range, low-profiling low attack in Slide--that can be enhanced further by variation choices, i.e. allowing him to spend resources to combo from his overhead with Ice Ball. When it comes to MK11 Sub, I definitely think more about his mixup/rushdown. Even going back to MKX or MK9, I think of his oppressive corner trapping where he severely limits his opponent while making his own options much scarier and more punishing. In any case, Reptile or, more so in my opinion, Scorpion might've been a better representative of a "rushdown ninja", methinks. Sorry for this book of a response.

@Hydro_236

2 жыл бұрын

Lord Haari is right, I was mainly thinking of MK11 Sub-Zero. I personally don't play the game, so I asked someone from my scene if MK11 Sub-Zero was a rushdown character (since it was the most recent game) and they said yes. Sub-Zero was the first ninja that came to mind and I didn't stop to think about how he plays in the previous games, so that's on me.

@N3r0ThlHeavyMetal

2 жыл бұрын

MK doesnt have traditional archetypes. Its just not a good example here.

@Cezkarma

2 жыл бұрын

Sub-Zero in MK11 is 100% rushdown. There are defensive loadouts you could use but in general he is definitely rushdown.

@soggydinnerolls1821

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hydro_236 he’s a mixup character also he is annoying

I always just called the "footsie characters" midrange characters.

@SinisterSally

2 жыл бұрын

I know them as midrange zoners.

@soulful1740

2 жыл бұрын

always just called them honest characters

@charleouel9012

2 жыл бұрын

@@SinisterSally Yah it bassicly a mix of the All-rounder, Zoner and rushdown. (exemple Karin got quite alot of rushdown skill dash and mix-up her skill that got a grab is a mix-up.) Overall the footsie is kinda in the midle of the 3 arctype in my opinion.

@googleisacruelmistress1910

2 жыл бұрын

That's not nearly as kinky tho

@harryvpn1462

2 жыл бұрын

@@googleisacruelmistress1910 LOL

A very big trait you missed are charge characters. Having to hold down or back for a second before being able to use a move has a big impact on gameplay. But, this video was really great, we need more content like this on youtube!

@deadpoolvega

2 жыл бұрын

And counter characters

@trappestarrgaming3422

2 жыл бұрын

@@deadpoolvega and set play characters

@99Gara99

Жыл бұрын

I was kinda disapointed by that and thought guile being called zoner was nonsense edit: I had just watched zoners before writing the comment and then came the footsie, that made things even worse

@GohTheGreat

Жыл бұрын

@@99Gara99 I personally beliee guile is more of a zoner than a footsie character. Yes his normals give him a great footsie game but with new moves like sonic blade a sonic puncher, its hard for me to believe hes designed as a footsie character

@99Gara99

Жыл бұрын

@@GohTheGreat I mean. He isn't neither a zoner nor a footsie, he is a "charge character" And Dhalsin is clearly a footsie Edit: typo

This is the kind of content that the FGC needs. People who take the time to produce something of this level deserve to have their content shared as much as possible. You earned your like, your sub and your bell. Great video.

@mortis.y2

2 жыл бұрын

Same man this was a great video

@fear_is_nearcz

Жыл бұрын

@@mortis.y2 6t6t⅞7⁶ih

16:51 why do people always get surprised when the defense attorney is abnormally durable?

@piranhaplant8483

2 жыл бұрын

It's probably because he is the most normal dude on the roster in terms of who they are. Phoenix is just a lawyer after all

@memeinatorun-official144

2 жыл бұрын

@@piranhaplant8483 who gets whipped, burned, tazzed, and chocked on a common basis

@piranhaplant8483

2 жыл бұрын

@@memeinatorun-official144 That's true, I suppose. On that topic, he also got hit by a car I believe

@bguy6778

2 жыл бұрын

@@memeinatorun-official144 has he been hit by a meteorite too?

@Crowens

2 жыл бұрын

@@piranhaplant8483 got ran over and flied up but walked away unscathed... Until he slipped and hurt his leg Also fell several feet into a ravine when a bridge collapsed and only suffered a cold

Examples of rushdown: the entirety of dbfz

@amazing-medo3883

2 жыл бұрын

example of a pupet character : 90% of jojo heritage for the future

@cetinkaya_metal

2 жыл бұрын

@@amazing-medo3883 no, we have only one puppetier, and its Devo. Its more like rushdown, footsie and zoners.

@urielguerra9146

2 жыл бұрын

Eh yes. in DBFZ it is a combination of rushdown and the other types in each PJ. For example Broly super (Grappler), A17 (rekka), Freezer (Zoner) and etc.

@The_Vible

2 жыл бұрын

@@cetinkaya_metal More like puppet rushdowns, puppet footsies and puppet zoners

@onyourleft9273

2 жыл бұрын

@@amazing-medo3883 to be fair they’re like a hybrid they can be stance characters (stand-on/stand-off) and also sort of a puppet since they can sort of detach they’re stand?

18:10 To add on to Ice Climbers, although you can desync their attacks allowing for really interesting combos, the secondary climber will always try to get close to the primary climber whenever possible, which isn’t exactly how a puppet character works.

Hit: *THIS IS THE STANCE* Also Hit: Not mentioned in the "stance" segment

@bguy6778

2 жыл бұрын

That's nitpicky

I love the separation of archetype and traits. Many people seem to conflate a characters movelist with their archetype, without determining the main gameplan that character executes. Ken and Sagat both have uppercuts, fireballs, and a forward moving special, but Sagat is a zoner and Ken is rushdown. Great vid man.

@imlonelypleasehelp5443

Жыл бұрын

Ken is famous for being a shoto/rush hybrid 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. I’m watching a lot of these videos and seeing literally no one knows shit.

I think Marth from Smash Bros fits your Footsies archetype really well.

@7fatrats

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, footsies are just swordies mostly.

@deletedTestimony

2 жыл бұрын

I would term the archetype as "fencer" since spacing and finesse are key. And Marth was my point of reference

@kylespevak6781

Жыл бұрын

​@@7fatrats I get what you're saying, but Marth specifically benefits from footsie range where Roy is designed to be rush down

@enigmatic2878

6 ай бұрын

​@@deletedTestimonyhehe. Point.

Here's a thought: is the "joke" character an archetype?

@happymagician1699

2 жыл бұрын

I'd argue it's closer to a trait since 'joke' characters are often like unorthodoxes due to working in a similar mode to other characters BUT doing it worse or in a far less conventional way compared to true archetype holders. E.g Dan hibiki vs ryu. He technically runs as a shoto with conventional move inputs for fireball, forwards charging attack and anti-air punch BUT has drawbacks or massive modifications to make it either less practical or straight up less serious.

@Angel_alanis

2 жыл бұрын

I say that yes Aside from Dan, who was already mentioned, other characters that I can think are Dampierre from Soul Calibur, Khan from Heritage for the Future and Meat from MK4. - Dampierre is a trickster who fights using hidden blades in his hands. A lot of his attacks are feints, grabs and even some of them do random damage. - Khan is easy to learn, but once you become more skilled, he is useless. He is slow and has horrible combos. Two other characters in the game have the same moves, and are better. - Meat was just a "placeholder" for the dead characters, but you could use it with a code (but since he was only a "skin", he will use another characters moves). When he became real, he was given almost no backstory

@rebeccachambers1846

2 жыл бұрын

The 'joke' character can best be described as 'Whoever is my main after the first balance update.' At least, that's what I whine to my wife when I get bodied.

@GottaBeMurph-V2

2 жыл бұрын

I think it’s more of a trait that falls under the other archetypes. Typically the joke characters are a clone of one of the others.

@georgeuferov1497

2 жыл бұрын

No, just like with composite characters, it doesn't affect gameplay. Fukua from Skullgirls is a joke character, but gameplay-wise she's hybrid between Grappler and Zoner

I’m subbing purely because of the no more heroes style intros, great video

Great video! my only comment is in the Rekka section was to bring up the idea that Rekka characters have mixups based on "are they going to do the whole rekka or not" and would have been a nice inclusion. thanks again for the great video

I feel like the inputs for a shoto character is a bit of a hangup, cuz there's no way Ky can't be called a shoto character.

@baconbuster9651

2 жыл бұрын

agreed, the exact input is less important than the functions in this case, and Ky is definitely a shoto

@TaberIV

2 жыл бұрын

I agree this is an extremely silly distinction, that's the only thing I find weird in this video. I guess you could argue that the "all-rounder" and "shoto" terms are differential by this, but also making an exception for games that have different motion systems shows how arbitrary this is.

@leithaziz2716

2 жыл бұрын

I'd say Ky in Strive might as well be classified as a Shoto. He's an all-rounder, has a DP and Foudre Arc works visually works like a Tatsu.

@fernandozavaletabustos205

2 жыл бұрын

So we could conclude that all shotos are all rounders, but not all all-rounders are shotos.

As someone new to fighting games in general, but wants to get into it and wants to actually make a fighting game, thank you so much for this video! I've been watching bunches of different character archetype videos, but yours has been the best so far with breaking the archetypes and traits down and explaining it without using confusing fighting game jargon. Thank you so much for this!!

@Guilty2805

Ай бұрын

Add me as a character, I'll beat the opp in 10 seconds

Great video. This is probably the best of the recent spate of character archetype videos, and much better than Leon Massey's video (ironic, considering he pushed for those videos in the first place). I really agree with your definitions, and I like the way you categorized your information into broad archetypes and traits, since that's how a lot of characters are designed in the modern age. Even simple fighting games don't have characters whose entire gameplans are "good fireballs, bad close range" or "good close range, bad long range" because those characters just aren't that stimulating to play unless the game is super broken/deep like Super Turbo. I especially think the footsies archetype solves a lot of the inherent problems that come from the typical shoto/grappler/rushdown/zoner categories. I'll definitely be showing this video to my friends/other fighting game players. It's criminal how few subscribers and views you have considering the effort you put into your videos. As for archetypes/traits you didn't discuss, there are a few that I think are worth mentioning: - Summoner: similar to puppet characters, but they summon "fire and forget" allies or call assists rather than controlling two things at once directly. - Setplay/vortex/prison: characters who are very good at forcing their opponents into mixup situations and then looping those mixup situations. There are definitely shades of this in SF, but SFV has been very clearly designed to limit looping mixup situations. I'd say throw loop situations were the closest SFV ever truly got to setplay like you'd find in an airdasher or tag game. SF4 Fuerte and Ibuki were also quite good at doing this, but given the prevalence of hard knockdowns and unblockables in that game there were many other characters who could do it too. (I'm actually making a video on this topic, but that will take a while to be published.) - "Snapping turtle"/defensive: characters who have some kind of unique defensive mechanic that allows them to challenge/escape situations other characters can't. I can only really think of Baiken in GG and Yoshimitsu in Tekken 7 (because his Flash move is so fast it allows him to challenge/punish things nobody else can), so this is probably more of a trait than an archetype. Slayer has shades of this because of how his BDCs work.

@bobbybowen9489

3 жыл бұрын

looking forward to that vortex character video

@feri7mble

3 жыл бұрын

Much better than Leon Massey's for sure, his reasoning was strange and didn't make a lot of sense.

@AzazelTheMisanthrope

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget pseudo-grapplers, characters who excell at enforcing strike/throw mixups, but usually as part of a larger kit than a traditional grappler

@pokeaust7800

3 жыл бұрын

Urien in SFV I think is a good example of a Setplay character. He can create some really dirty mixup situations with his V-Trigger 1 and V-Skill 2 that bounce the opponent around and make juggles that leave you unexpectedly standing on a random side if he ends with forward MP

@Skallva

2 жыл бұрын

He also briefly touched on this, but trappers aka the characters whose toolkit revolves around setting up traps that the opponent has to carefully navigate around to get to the trapping character or to escape their pressure. Definitely should've been expanded upon because it's a fairly common trait in many fighting games and a pretty varied one too (eg. both Rachel and Kokonoe from BlazBlue can be classified as trappers but their gameplans are completely different). Also, as another example of a defensive character: Hakumen. He usually prefers harassing his opponents with his huge pokes and he doesn't like to get in - instead he waits for his opponent to come to him and punishes their mistakes with his oppressive counters and massive burst damage. Adding to that, he's the only character in the game who builds meter passively so he has no reason to want to get in and the opponent is constantly urged to finish him off as quickly as possible before he gets access to his most dangerous tools. He can also cut projectiles, leaving behind a huge hitbox in their place, so zoning him out isn't as simple as it may initially seem.

I would have thrown in "Charge" characters to the trait list, eg, characters whose gameplan is very heavily dominated by movesets with (typically) directional button holds. Examples being Guile, Urien, Remy, Falke and Sabrewulf(?). It's notable because said gameplans usually keep them fairly stationary unless they employ certain (sometimes game specific) movement to retain their charges while advancing. Not applicable to all games, but the limitation on *how* they perform their typical special moves generally pushes them more towards certain styles of play.

@Hydro_236

2 жыл бұрын

I originally considered Charge characters when making the script, but I felt like talking about them would mean having to make a section on Motion characters as well, which I didn't think was worth talking about (which in hindsight is kinda dumb reasoning lol). I also tried to focus on traits that had several aspects that wouldn't be immediately obvious, or in the case of the Rekka trait, traits with names that don't give newcomers any clue on what they do. You make a good point about how charge inputs affect a character's movement. I hadn't really considered how a character's movement is affected by having to charge frequently, though characters like Alex and Urien in SF5 are more active and less reliant on charging than more stationary characters like Honda or F.A.N.G.

@shigekisun3922

2 жыл бұрын

For charge characters the best example is TOTSUGEKI from GG:strive

@senatorarmstrong7071

2 жыл бұрын

Saberwulf has charge moves, like his Back Heavy in KI 2013, but he’s more of a rush down character.

@robinsr4745

2 жыл бұрын

@@shigekisun3922 Ash from kof 13 is also a really good example.

@YouAlreadyKnowBabi

2 жыл бұрын

@@shigekisun3922 GG* not just strive.

Corollary to the Big Body trait: Small Body. SSB is one of the few series I've seen that's been very playful with regards to the size and dimensions of the character, but I've definitely seen Small Body characters in other fighting games, too. I'm a little surprised you didn't go into the deeper gameplay implications of a Big Body character. What's most important about them is that their hurtboxes are also larger and generally wider, meaning air options that would whiff smaller characters coming over and behind them would barely nick Big Body characters and register a hit, crouching as a Big Body wouldn't let you low profile as many moves as you'd be able to as other characters, certain combos which might whiff other characters could connect better with Big Body characters due to larger and wider hurtboxes. Hell, against Big Body characters, air options in general can be more dangerous because anti-air options might strike much higher for Big Body characters than average, and since Big Body characters literally control more space than average characters, they can start combos and keep their opponents deep within their own hitboxes rather than fearing knockback like you might with other characters.

@Untilitpases

Жыл бұрын

Well said. They're also more exposed to hits while laying on the ground, making for easier and longer combos. (Tekkenfor instance.)

Amazing video, fantastic info! although one thing: Ryu and Ken’s karate was based off Kyokushin Karate - Shotokan is a common misconception as it is the worlds most popular Karate style.

@boobah5643

2 жыл бұрын

Capcom USA claimed that they were specifically practitioners of Shotokan. Early 90s Capcom USA was, it turns out, not the best source for information on Capcom games.

@KrissyBlues

Жыл бұрын

It's a mix of kyoukushin and a bit from other styles of karate, officially it's a made up martial art called ansatsuken

@PoisonousPen

Жыл бұрын

@@KrissyBlues correct 👍

As a counterpart to the Big Body trait, there's also the rarer Small Body, with a similarly simple description: the character has a small body. These characters can more easily dodge attacks by crouching, or even standing in some rare cases. On the other hand, they may have shorter hitboxes, deal less damage, or have lower health/defense than other characters, making them pretty much the opposite of Big Bodies. I don't think SFV really has a Small Body, most characters are roughly an average height or larger than average, but some examples from Smash would be Kirby, Pichu, and Game and Watch. BlazBlue has Jubei, I'm sure there's one in Guilty Gear but I've never played a Guilty Gear game (May is pretty small, right?), and FighterZ has Krillin, Teen Gohan, and GT Goku. Also fun fact, Them's Fightin' Herds has neither Big Bodies nor Small Bodies, since every character has the same hurtboxes despite their designs. EDIT: It would appear that Them's FIghtin' Herds now has a Big Body in the new DLC character, Texas.

@noahbogue1934

2 жыл бұрын

Neco arc

@enzoponce1881

2 жыл бұрын

Choi from kof

@aomafura3374

2 жыл бұрын

Xiaoyu from Tekken

@philithegamer8265

2 жыл бұрын

The first examples that comes to mind are Yoda in Soulcalibur 4, Oddjob in Golden007 (The N64 video game adaptation of the movie/novel), GT Goku from Dragonball Fighterz and Dr. Slump in Dragonball Boudakai.

@deadrixhanon1776

2 жыл бұрын

petshop

This is about the best take I've seen on this topic so far. Excellently presented, well edited, and not a boring moment throughout.

As someone with little experience in fighting games I loved your presentation here, I understood every moment and never felt overwhelmed despite the abundance of information. Keep up the videos for my entertainment and hopefully your own satisfaction, i cant wait for the next one my man

Thank you for introducing me to Skullgirls what an iconic game I've never heard anyone talk about

Really like the no more heroes styled transitions, great video too.

@radec1744

2 жыл бұрын

im surprised the kings werent mentioned in the grappling section

What about characters that utilize a resource other than the standard super meter like Sin from GG? They have a unique play style that require them to pause and recharge in order for them to do anything significant.

@MrAuthor3DS

2 жыл бұрын

Smash has quite a few of those - Kirby (Copy Abilities), Olimar (Pikmin), Little Mac (Power Meter), Robin (weapon durability), Cloud (Limit Gauge), Inkling (ink tank), Joker (Rebellion Gauge), Hero (MP), Banjo & Kazooie (Golden Feathers, sort of), and Steve (materials).

@mmelesco4305

2 жыл бұрын

I'd argue that those characters fit under a different "trait" as explained by the video, but they do not have vastly different playstyles than the archetypes mentioned. I mainly play Killer Instinct though which has characters that fit the these archetypes such as Eagle (his zoning capabilites are limited by the arrow resource) or Maya (whose daggers need to be retrieved after throwing them and mainly fits a rushdown playstyle which is aided by her unblockable projectiles) so I'm not too sure about Guilty Gear characters sorry.

@seanmyster6

2 жыл бұрын

I've already come up with a name for that trait: "Resource Manager"

@jayfirson13

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanmyster6 hmm

@Danodan94

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrAuthor3DS As a Smash player myself, I'd divide that list into two main types of resources. Core Resources and Comeback Resources. Core Resources (Olimar, Robin, Inkling, Hero and Steeve) are resources that are used extensively throughout an entire fight, and are typically required to have for the character to do anything significant. Comeback Resources (Lucario, Little Mac, Cloud, Joker, Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya) are resources that are accumulated over the course of a fight to be used for a single high power attack or a powered up state.

"Morrigan from Marvel vs Capcom 3" Me: (cries in Darkstalkers fan)

@pirateclick1d169

2 жыл бұрын

He's only talking about new games

@GameboyFanatic

2 жыл бұрын

@@pirateclick1d169 3rd strike...

@gamemax1049

2 жыл бұрын

It's funny because Capcom's treatment and disrepect for DS, she's more an OC from Crossovers at this point

@bguy6778

2 жыл бұрын

She isn't much of a zoner in that game I guess Maybe he isn't familiar with it

@austinreed7343

21 күн бұрын

She is an all rounder in her own series but got subject to Morriganization in crossovers.

I disagree with a few parts, but for the most part this was a really well done video!

The production is top notch and you sound like a very natural speaker!

I've been playing fighting games fairly casually since I rented SF2 on my snes about 25 years ago on a whim. I didn't really learn anything but I really liked how you laid out a whole lot of information we all probably intuitively know and put it all into context. I really appreciate how you laid out the main archetypes and variants; I think it will help a ton of people with the terminology and the philosphies they embody. Keep up the good work

Godlike video. Extremely informative and clear to understand. This is the kind of stuff I wish I had access to months ago. May this video find its way into the feed of aspiring fighting game enthusiasts in the future.

23:14 Rekka inputs have way more variety depending on game

I think that "Fencer" is a better archetype name for the Footsies character, since a lot of the characters who play this way either have a tool that they use that is reminiscent of a rapier (or is one) or fight in a way that is otherwise similar to fencing.

I feel like this video is a great companion piece to Eddventures'. You both break down the archetypes and present your points perfectly. I feel like by watching both, I've gained a better understanding of fighting game archetypes.

2:10 OK you got me with the NMH call back. Here's my sub. Now my head is trying to categorise all the fighting game characters I know. I really appreciate your humility at the end. Very cool edits throughout, I will now devour your other videos ! Cheers from France.

25:15 I wouldn’t say G&W is an unorthodox character. Sure, judge is a really luck dependant move, but it’s not always his game plan to go for it. Hero is a MUCH better example personally. His Mana gimmick is already a little unique, but his down b, command selection, makes it much more interesting. When he uses it, he gets a little command menu of 4 different, RANDOM spells, of which there is a total of about 30. Some are pretty basic, like healing, or a simple projectile, others are litterally one hit KO moves. He was literally described as the most random character. RNG isn’t the only use of unorthodox playstyles, though. Let’s look at my main, Steve. Steve has probably the most confusing and complicated gimmick in the game: his resource gimmick. A large number of his basic attacks use tools which can break, a resource bar as well as his crafting table to replace or upgrade his tools, as well as being able to PLACE BLOCKS. That last one is by far the most unique part because it makes him the ONLY character in the game who can create actual platforms. Some other characters could get items or even place stuff, sure, but Steve’s blocks are superior in so many ways. He can literally wall you out by building walls, can use the blocks to help in combos and set ups, and even cheese opponents by hitting them onto the underside of a block. Normally you could only do this by knocking an opponent onto the sloped underside of most stages, but Steve can do this in any spot where he can place blocks. The only thing that holds him back is bad range, mediocre mobility, and not being able to constantly do these moves due to having limited resources.

@TheGuyThatPlaysKoG

Жыл бұрын

bro is a quacking video game scientist,, good point

@anonymoose2474

Жыл бұрын

Voldemort isn't either. He's just a really unique stance character

@TheTrueBrawler

9 ай бұрын

Mediocre mobility? Steve has some of the worst mobility in Smash. He has the absolute worst initial dash, has the absolute worst jump height, and is bottom 15 at best in all other movement stats. If he isn't Smash's absolute pinnacle of terrible mobility, it's only because he narrowly beats out one or more of the game's most sluggish super heavy weight characters like Ganondorf, Incineroar, or Kazuya.

@RiskierGoose340

9 ай бұрын

@@TheTrueBrawler well, I only say mediocre, because of his specials. Almost all of his specials (and even some regular attacks) greatly aid his mobility. His Up-b is very flexible recovery and mobility tool, has great safety and startup, and also some neat exploits to further boost it’s abilities. Minecart is really fast with redstone, hits like a truck, is a projectile that grabs you, and works like an extra jump. It can also be re-entered. Blocks make steve’s air game go from okay to unbelievably amazing. Exploits like No-Impact-Lands make his vertical movement terrifying, especially when combined with being able to use Smash attacks and grabs in the air through blocks. Hell, even Down B has some mobility aspects because of the little hop the air version does, and synergies well with other specials. And let’s not ignore down air either, the game’s best stall-n-fall because Steve can leap off it at any point, it’s a projectile, and it hits like a truck. Steve’s mobility doesn’t match that of Sonic, or Captian Falcon, under normal circumstances anyways. But these allow him to move very quickly in crazy ways.

@lalaldka

7 ай бұрын

@@TheTrueBrawler kazuya??? wait until you see how fast he approaches with korean backdash

I remember when you were lucky to get 3 archetypes: Fast guy, all-rounder, and strong/slow guy...which was more than the original archetypes of red guy/blue guy 😂 You might call it the "all-rounder" but my favorite fighting game archetype has always been what I consider the "generic martial artist" toons like Ryu and Liu Kang

THE INTRO OF THE TYPES IS BASED ON THE BOSS PRESENTATIONS OF NMH 1, I LOVE THAT SO MUUUUUCH

Very informative and well constructed video. Information was well explained and the use of many examples is really helpful. I like hearing more than just 1 or 2 characters being used as an example that way the viewer gets a more well-rounded idea of what the subject is. Well done! 👍🏻

I nominate the Mishima trait from Tekken. The character Jin, Kazuya and Hihashi have some same moves/tools, that are good and unique to them.

@crack4184

Жыл бұрын

Right but it's only applied in 3D fighting games, though

@GamesAndAnimes

Жыл бұрын

@@crack4184 And Shotos with there fireballs mainly appears in 2D fighting games. Only because some traits do not appears in other sub genre, we can still count them.

26:12 Yes, I do have some disagreements with this video- your specification that shotos must also have the same command inputs for the similar moves feels arbitrarily specific. Your definition of "rekka" is also significantly more specific than the definition most people I have heard use, which is just "any special move that can only immediately after using a specific other special move (example that your definition excludes: Anji Mito from Guilty Gear has several specials which are executed by pressing a specific attack button immediately after using his "Fuujin" special). On another note, in regards to your other comment about mentioning archetypes/traits you didn't mention in the video- Setplay characters, defined as "characters who are designed to take advantage of knocking down their opponent by using their brief moment of safety to do something they gives them an advantage." Characters with attacks designed to hit the opponent as they get up (the act of which is known as "okizeme"). However, there are other types of setplay, not just okizeme. ("all okizeme is setplay but not all setplay is okizeme). Other types of setplay do not necessarily require a knockdown, but a knockdown is typically the safest time for it.

@fernandozavaletabustos205

2 жыл бұрын

So we could conclude that all shotos are all rounders, but not all all-rounders are shotos.

I was expecting a way higher subscriber count from how well put together this vid was, instant sub, hope I can say I was in the under 1k club when you get big

This video is awesome! Clearly spoken, great information, good editing, keep it up dude!

“Morrigan from MVC3” *cries in darkstalkers*

@Hydro_236

2 жыл бұрын

Actually I said "Morrigan IN Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3". I know that Morrigan is a Darkstalkers character first and foremost, I just figured using her MVC3 incarnation would be more recognizable to viewers.

@jhsrt985

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hydro_236 as long as you know where she's really from lolll. Considering this video is for new fg people I understand your decision good sir. Beautiful content and thank you for continuing to the fighting game world🤜💥🤛💫💪🤝

Videos like this are immensely useful for helping beginners understand which characters can perform the playstyle of their choosing. Great music choices and very crisp examples

I love the NMH transitions and the video, good job and keep it up

You showed off Under-Night characters so often but never mentioned them by name :'(

Man, really love thus video. Thank you A LOT for providing me with this info. Your content is amazing 🌈💜

The effort in this video really shows man, it’s worth admiring. Keep it up :)

Great video! I've been wanting to make a video about Fighting Game archetypes for a while so I've been looking around for what other people have said. This is the best video on YT about the subject imo.

Great video! Although you did kinda miss one, the "gimmick" character where a character has some sort System unique only to them(in thier own game at least) with said system being visible near the health bar or super meter. Arc System Works is the undisputed king of this archetype as there are MANY of them in both BB and GG. It's also why you'll hear the phrase "every character plays thier own game in Guilty Gear/Blazblue." Another missed archetype is the "charge" character where they need to hold down a button or position to get more effects out of a move.

@philithegamer8265

2 жыл бұрын

What about small body characters, a character archetype that’s notorious for having smaller hurtboxes than the rest of the roster?

@anthonychessar7179

2 жыл бұрын

Eh, that one's pretty rare. This video goes over all the main archetypes EXCEPT for gimmick characters.

@kylespevak6781

Жыл бұрын

"Every character plays their own game" sounds a lot like Smash DLC characters and Multiversus

A trait I would mention is power-up characters. These are characters who have to jump through some sort of hoop (often a move that does no damage and is risky to use), but in return these significantly improve some other part of their arsenal. Examples would include Jam from Guilty Gear carding her kicks, or Hakan from Street Fighter oiling. Dark Phoenix is in a sense the ultimate power-up character with the ultimate hoop to jump through. I would note that this has to be in addition to whatever tools the rest of the cast would have. V-Trigger does not mean every Street Fighter 5 character is a power-up character

Excellent video. Also, the music selection was on point.

Really like this analysis of traits not necessarily being conducive to the character’s overall archetype. Very solid video!

Great video, and I like your style of explanations. Separating shotos from all rounders is an interesting take, given how similar they are, but I can absolutely get why. My only issue is inputs. Your definitions for shotos and rekka characters both require a specific input (baring games with simple inputs). I can agree that the general input is correct, but not a specific input. I can get why you might think that, since most games tend to use those inputs anyways, but I disagree that they're a necessity. For example-Ky has the tools of a shoto, but not the inputs. However, a moves function is more important than the input, so I do consider Ky to be a shoto. Obviously, I mean no disrespect to your definition, but just my thoughts. Again, great video, glad I was recommended it by YT :D

@fernandozavaletabustos205

2 жыл бұрын

So we could conclude that all shotos are all rounders, but not all all-rounders are shotos.

@nebiyuesayas5600

2 жыл бұрын

@@fernandozavaletabustos205 Yep, although I will note that I don't see too many all-rounders that don't fit the shoto mold to some degree.

This guide is actually way better than the one mentioned in the intro. Great job!

This video helped a lot. It's so messy that a guide like this is always welcome

Damn dude found your channel right now. I love watching fighting games related documentarys idk what i should call these videos. :D Thank you the videos.

This was a really good summation. I think the one noteworthy trait missing though was "Charge Characters." Characters like Guile & Chun Li in Street Fighter and May in Guilty Gear.

@frank8917

Жыл бұрын

And Urien

Along with the video by the Edd guy, how come KOF characters are not mentioned? I don't play fighting games but I really enjoy videos like this~

@TheAzulon

2 жыл бұрын

KOF has some differences on commands and how certain types of attacks work (for example, a lot of characters have "hadouken likes" that run throught the floor, so you have to crouch defend instead of just defending) so people prefer to analize KOF games separately.

@noyce.

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheAzulon Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it!

@Hydro_236

2 жыл бұрын

Personally it was a lack of knowledge & experience with KOF games, but also from reading up on how characters play in KOF, I got the impression that characters play largely the same and don't follow many different archetypes. I could be wrong about that though.

@noyce.

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hydro_236 IMO most of them plays like Fei Long from SF to me. Plus they got this 2button dodge so perhaps that's a different mechanic. There's grapplers like Clark etc too. Appreciate the reply! Really nice video!

DUDE! I fricking *loved* this No more heroes introduction you made to the archetypes! And just when i started to fall in love with NMH all over again!

Holy crap the NMH intros actually gave me chills. Extremely well done!

I fucking love the No More Heroes transitions, just earned a subscriber for that alone. Can’t wait for more content dude!

Another character trait would be setup characters like testament from gg and cyrax/ joker from mk. Characters who create mixups with traps and weird projectiles instead of normal and special moves. Great video btw

@stuisp

2 жыл бұрын

I think that falls under trap zoners.

@timcan4176

2 жыл бұрын

@@stuisp yeah most of them are but for instance joker from mk doesn’t really zone, he has some big buttons but that’s about it. I’d say it’s more of a trait that can apply to characters, mostly zoners.

Thanks for the amazing video, I watched the video you mentioned first, and then stumbled upon this video after rewatching that video for like the 5th time, this clears things up a little more. I'm trying to design a fighting game for my game series and am just trying to make an outline for what I want each character (and the game in general) to look like.

Fantastic video! I have always thought the problem with how people viewed character archetypes was that there were different archetypes that were wildly different in what they described. For example, a character being a zoner describes the range they play had and gives a general idea of how they play while saying someone is a trap character just means they have traps. I think splitting these two types up into two different things was a great idea.

Does the "Reversal" character count as an archetype?

Incredible video, from editing to the script and music choices (and of course the content/discussion itself), and at less than 1000 subs? I doubt that'll be the case for very long.

Love the NMH-styled intros for each archetype!

Im surprised of how little he mentioned mortal Kombat

There is also minor archetypes too, like Damage, Pressure, Mixup, Neutral, etc

So much knowledge in this. Thank you!

The NMH intros work so well, great choice for presentation

*What is Kirby from SSBU?*

@SoaringJam

2 жыл бұрын

Rushdown.

No better way to look into basic character's archetypes other than the OG of fighting games street fighter 2 rosters. Ryu/Ken = shoto/balanced Guile = turtle Chunli = footsies Dhalsim = zoning Zangief = grappler Honda = pressure rushdown Blanka = gimicky fast rushdown And then as the games moves on, many new char with the mix of 2 or 3 above types introduced, like cammy (footsies+rushdown) or t.hawk (grappler+rushdown).

@spicymeatballs2thespicening

2 жыл бұрын

How would you define turtles

@quasar5657

2 жыл бұрын

@@spicymeatballs2thespicening rather than initiating moves or attacks like rushdown type, turtles tend to be the reacting one. Guile being a charge character, it help improve reaction timing a lot. Also when talking about guile, i cant help but imagine him squatting all the time like a turtle.

@spicymeatballs2thespicening

2 жыл бұрын

@@quasar5657 perfect example lol, thanks

@fernandozavaletabustos205

2 жыл бұрын

So we could conclude that all shotos are all rounders, but not all all-rounders are shotos.

I LOVE the editing on this video

Prime example of a Rekka characters is the queen of rekkas herself, Angel from King of Fighters. Her rekkas by themselves are as long as some characters entire move lists and can feed back into each other or feinted as needed. She's considered one of the hardest and most technical characters in the franchise.

now send this to everyone in the smash community

I always called footsies "Spacers" because i am a filthy casual who plays smash bros

@sebaschan-uwu

2 жыл бұрын

I also play smash and I think they are generally called neutral based characters. Its a bit more nuanced than just spacing because every character in the game needs you to space your moves properly.

The no more heroes intro cards are the cherry on top of this amazing video

dayum bro?!?! you got the NMH reference, siiiick. great video all around

22:16 This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard when it comes to fighting games. By using that logic, Sol is a shoto but Ky is not, just because of a meaningless difference in execution that functionally changes nothing. The reality is that Sol and Ky are both all-arounders/shotos and they were intentionally designed that way.

@fernandozavaletabustos205

2 жыл бұрын

So we could conclude that all shotos are all rounders, but not all all-rounders are shotos.

Smash kids need to know what a 21:33 is 🤣

Hey! really nice video, first i found you with those ED setup videos, and that bring me here, i like the editing, music, and your voice ;). Also 25:50, as a Twelve main, yes, he's very weird compared to the rest of the cast, has an airdash, spikes up to fullscreen, airdash, and invisibilty, he fits in the unorthodox category perfectly, however you can also say he resembles a rushdown character in some way because of his mobility and pressure (if used correctly).

Bless you for putting music in the description😂

Thank you for making this fighting game archetypes video essay bro. You definitely just made me have even more respect and admiration for how intelligent, creative and imaginative fighting game developers are! I have this saying, “The best thing to keep boredom away, is variety.” It would seem they do as well… I don’t play fighting games as much now as I use to as a teenage. Well that’s not completely true, now that I think of it. I actually got pretty damn good at the most recent Star Wars Battlefront II. But I never even knew that characters in fighting games had different health bar limits, into I just watched your video essay, lol.

I'm subscribing in hopes we get more content from you m8, love your voice and accent, also your video felt very well researched, hope to see more in the future.

The skullgirls music at the end tops it off, great video!

Thank you for this video. I'm trying to hammer an understanding of these out for myself.

This is such a great video. I love this. Best I've seen so far

First Time seeing your Channel and THE NO MORE HEROES TRANSITION I CAN'T

I really like the differentiation between archetype and trait. I think thats what was missing from the eddventure video. Good stuff hope to see more in the future.

Well I can think of another character type called "chipper" or something like that. The only ones that come to mind are anji mito from gg and amane from bb. These characters focus on making you block, and dealing damage to you while you are blocking/making you waste defensive resources like burst, meter, etc... Amane has a drill move that charges the more its used, and when charged to max, it will deal bonus damage if the enemy is blocking(prob one of the most satisfying moves in fighting games). Anji on the other hands, is a rekka character with really predictable mixups in the rekkas, but these deal tons of damage even if you block, so youre better off geting out of the way or counter attacking. There's also "parry" characters like baiken, anji mito(yes), hakumen. These focus on hard reads and making the opponent press buttons, and a succesful parry can turn the tide of a match.

Firstly: Any time anyone uses the No More Heroes boss introduction voice, I’m immediately on board with what the video is about Secondly: I will always love the fact that one of if not the first ever puppet fighter in a fighting game is Devo from Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Heritage for the Future

Thank you so much for making this! It was far easier to understand than the video you mentioned at the start and I think it’ll help me greatly for an assigment i have that involves designing a fighting game character; as I am not familiar with fighting games outside of button-smashing smash bros.

Great video and definitely helps me classify original Vega from Street Fighter ST. He’s definitely a footsie character I would say, even in SFV with the new Stance Change.

This is an AMAZING video, very well thought-out and entertaining in addition to being informative. Well done! I do have a somewhat minor gripe though...At the beginning of the video you specifically bring up "composite characters" as a an example of a character trait that's not inherent to an archetype, but then later in the traits section you neglect to bring it up again. I think it would have been great to talk about composites again as a way of rounding out the video, just discussing what sort of archetypes composite characters can fill with their movesets and showing that a trait can play into an archetype, but not be beholden to it, and vice versa.

@Hydro_236

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your feedback! Honestly, that's a great idea and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself! I thought that I had said all that I needed to say about Composite characters at the beginning of the video, but in hindsight, I really should have included them in the traits section. I've gained a lot more insight on fighting game character design in the past 2 years as well, so if I had made this video now then I would easily have more stuff to say about Composite characters. I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind for future videos!

Strong agree on the Shoto definition. Great video!

great work, subscribed with notifs!