EP14 The Game of War
Ойын-сауық
Dan discusses his background in miniature wargaming and then talks to one of the architects of a popular Second World War themed video game about the genre, its development, growth and challenges.
1. War Games through the Ages 3,000BC to 1,500AD by Donald F. Featherstone 2. How to Play War Games in Miniature: A Forgotten Wargaming Pioneer Early Wargames by Joseph Morschauser
Пікірлер: 531
I'm gonna listen to this again. And again, and aggeeeeen.
@burtbiggum499
2 жыл бұрын
Hey good channel
@michaelherring7210
2 жыл бұрын
It’s so funny after all of these years of listening to Dan, i don’t even notice how he pronounces ‘again’ so strangely! Fabulous material and a master storyteller.
@JChil850
2 жыл бұрын
This comment is amazing.
@charwest5892
2 жыл бұрын
shoutout dawgz
@davincisama
2 жыл бұрын
Love your content Shill Up, miss you on the Laymen couch. Awesome to see you're also a history buff.
New Dan Carlin content is like a surprise party that happens for no particular reason
@mnemonix1315
2 жыл бұрын
if you havent played wesnoth with the ageless era mod its FOSS you'll thank me one day, or better yet you'll pay it forward and tell somebody else about it :P
@Bentam64
2 жыл бұрын
Fuck yahhhh
@chrisdiddatshit364
2 жыл бұрын
“A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.”
@IndianaJones44
2 жыл бұрын
I just got into listening to him on Spotify but noticed there’s not a lot of recent content. Does he use another platform?
@markdesmond3659
2 жыл бұрын
@@IndianaJones44 No you just gotta sit and wait...he'll drop a show out of nowhere. Might be in 2 weeks, might be in 2 years
I’ve been listening to Dan since I was 20 years old I turn 31 this year and I still get excited when an episode drops he’s by far my favorite orator and may be the greatest of all time
I would love to see Dan tackle a long form Napoleonic podcast. 1805 and the Sun of Austerlitz or the 1809 Campaign in Austria and Northern Italy.
@mikehallaron
2 жыл бұрын
Just no Waterloo! Maybe 1812 in Russia. My favorite might be 1813.
@transon6655
2 жыл бұрын
epic history has a great documentary about this topic
@kensin7244
2 жыл бұрын
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 Lot 'sweeter' than the current global hegemons practise's.... Salty much about the brits ? ;-D BTW was 'Boney' who bragged about how many lives 'he spent' per month.....
@shaymoose4538
2 жыл бұрын
Yes absolutely would like to hear his view on the napoleonic wars.
@MrChickennugget360
2 жыл бұрын
honestly he could do a history from the French Revolution to Waterloo. Show how a Revolution turned into a dictatorship and became a World War
At 40:30 Dan talks about video games sparking interest in historical periods. I've seen that in spades on Red Dead Redemption 2 groups. Because of that game people have asked questions about the era around 1898. I've talked to people about the weapons, politics, conservationist movements, women's suffrage, ect. Video games make a huge impact on opening up history for players
@jaredvetter7705
2 жыл бұрын
Try any paradox title if you want to see historical interest sparked
@burtbiggum499
2 жыл бұрын
Video games for me are what toy soldiers were for Dan
@thedude3369
2 жыл бұрын
Assassin's Creed has sum pretty cool history plots they create their games around. RDR2 is hands down the best game ever. :)
@thepatch228
2 жыл бұрын
Then 8 mins later they talk about LITERALLY memory holeing ( erasing) parts of history because of a bad man with a little mustache. Fuck it let's erase slavery from history too that's was a bad time right? Of course then the black and white division couldn't be pushed in this country so NVM. 🤣😂🤣😂
@tiestofalljays
2 жыл бұрын
Did you see the crazy interest surrounding World War 1 after Battlefield 1 was announced?
As a long-time history buff and tabletop miniatures wargamer, this is an unexpected jewel.
@MonstersNotUnderTheBed
2 жыл бұрын
Hell Let Loose is a pure visceral experience as a frontline troop. Get it.
@robertcarver4067
Жыл бұрын
Agree. Just found this podcast!
I never thought "Warhammer" would be uttered on a Dan Carlin podcast but I'm certainly not complaining
@BigKnecht
2 жыл бұрын
God I prayed that warhammer would come up. Thanks for confirming.
@Chubyfunstuf
2 жыл бұрын
Siting here waiting and hoping they bring it up lol.
That's honestly awesome that your familiar with miniature wargaming. Being a history major it's just astounding how dioramas or even the game itself isn't implemented in a classroom setting when it can provide not only something fun but if anything allows one to interact.
@MarcRitzMD
2 жыл бұрын
You would probably find that if you went to military academy
@burtbiggum499
2 жыл бұрын
I had a teacher who made us form our desks into trenches then had us throw balls at eachother from cover when we learned about ww1
So happy that you had Max on here! He’ll Let Loose is hands down the best WWII multiplayer game that has been made to date! It gives a whole new appreciation for what veterans of that war had to go through!
@EntryLevelLuxury
2 жыл бұрын
Best thing since Darkest Hour that's for sure
@DelcoAirsoft
2 жыл бұрын
@@EntryLevelLuxury Jesus dude you just led me down a rabbit hole. I had no idea this game existed. I’m literally going to go download it now. This game looks unbelievable. Thank you so much.
War games are definitely a good way to spark interest into history. I've spent countless hours researching various historical battles because of some game I was playing at the time.
@EntryLevelLuxury
2 жыл бұрын
That was college for me lol
@sunnyrainyday6820
Жыл бұрын
Can you recommend me any online wargame where I can replay famous battles?
@leeskirs8855
Жыл бұрын
@@sunnyrainyday6820 When you say online are meaning multiplayer games? Or just games in general? Assuming you mean games in general here are a few I have enjoyed. The Men of War series, Gates of Hell, Red Orchestra Heros of Stalingrad, Rising Storm 2 Vietnam, (Some) of the Total War series, Battlefield 1, Company of Heroes, Steel Division, Unity of Command, Il2 Sturmovik, Hearts of Iron 4, Digital Combat Simulator, Graviteam Tactics series, Iron Front Liberation, Order of Battle series, Tank Warfare Tunisia, Theatre of War series, Ultimate General Civil War, Ultimate Admiral Age of Sail, War on the Sea, Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942.
@sunnyrainyday6820
Жыл бұрын
@@leeskirs8855 i play Civ6 with my friends online on my PC so I was asking for some recommendations that I could get them into as well
@leeskirs8855
Жыл бұрын
@@sunnyrainyday6820 a lot of those games I listed can be played with friends online. Look into them and see which ones appeal to you. Most of them can be found and bought on Steam.
Welp, there goes my evening. I couldn’t be happier!
@benpeters5851
2 жыл бұрын
Same
@timothyjohnson1238
2 жыл бұрын
Welp, here begins my evening. i also couldn’t be happier😁
@jonv1496
2 жыл бұрын
Yup
I really want Dan to talk to guys from Creative Assembly and maybe even play some historical total war.
@anthonysimmons1372
2 жыл бұрын
Bingo
@carlferrara8183
2 жыл бұрын
Yes
Even though the revelation of it is completely natural and shouldn't come as a surprise, there is a special kind of delight that arises from witnessing two of your favourite universes of hobby and geekdom converge like this. It's as if an obscure prophecy is fulfilled, and a wholesome sensation of satisfaction and gratification washes over you.
@maicka4417
2 жыл бұрын
I came here to say this. +1
Dan your the reason I've pursued a History undergraduate! Thank you!!!
@austinowings4904
2 жыл бұрын
Please PLEASE either double major or only minor in it. There are no jobs in the field. You're making the same mistake I did twenty years ago. Like, make no mistake it's enriched my life and I'm not going to say it hasn't, but I ended up having to go back to college and get trained as an Accountant before I was employable.
@bryanwagner289
2 жыл бұрын
Austin’s right, unless you don’t need money and want to teach!
@eirikhaakonson1961
2 жыл бұрын
yeah don't fucking do that bud
@TuskKult
2 жыл бұрын
@@austinowings4904 This is the exact reason I pursue history with rigor in my free time that I couldn't at a school. It is without a doubt far more chaotic, and with certain elements takes me longer to flesh out key points, moments and concepts; but I'd argue its a bit more rewarding than having it handed to me and told how important it was- the revelations arrived at on my own are very rewarding. On how rewarding history is, I find it almost ineffable. Understanding how we got to where we are, socially, politically and linguistically is mind blowing. I certainly will be dying a different man that I otherwise would have if it were not for my passion for history.
@austinowings4904
2 жыл бұрын
@@TuskKult Preaching to the choir, boss. I took a 400 level course on World War I and I feel like I got a better grasp of it reading "A World Undone" (thanks Dan) than I did in class. Ditto on how underappreciated History as a discipline is. I feel like a lot of people just go through life near-sighted and without glasses when it comes to lacking the context History provides.
“Tell us a story, Uncle Dan!”
As a Warhammer/ D&D/ Dan Carlin Fan... This is perfect.
Here in Britain I used to spend my Saturday mornings gaming in the shops called "Games Workshop". Buying new soldiers and weapons and painting them brings back so many wonderful memories.
As a Wargamer and Terrain Builder for Wargamers, I approve this message! Rock on Dan!
This came in clutch for my all nighter, thanks darling Dan
@APX1138
2 жыл бұрын
He doesn't understand you.
@EntryLevelLuxury
2 жыл бұрын
@@APX1138 but we do!
Thanks Dan! Always an exciting day when any new content from you comes out.
*vigorous home cleaning intensifies*
NOTHING better than seeing a Hardcore History in my sub box.
I wish I had a "Grandpa Carlin", do you wanna sit down and listen to Grandpa for....6 hours? Better grab a snack.... Plug your ears if you don't like bloodshed.
Loved this. My god, I spent so many hours playing Ancient Art of War at Sea! Great conversation, and thanks for digging up those fond memories!
He's talking about HLL like it's some ground-braking game yet it basically does the same things that were done already 10-15 years ago with games like OFP, Arma series, Project Reality, Red Orchestra, etc. More photo-realistic assets, some different meta and game mechanics, a bit bigger player number than most games, but that's about it. It's an evolution. Revolution happened somewhere between late 90's and mid 2000's.
I started my war gaming back in the ‘70’s in my early teens with rules that were very detailed and quite complex. I still have the rules somewhere in a box! Napolionic was my thing and though I don’t play it anymore I still have my favourite lead figures packed away. Spent hours painting them. Great memories and many, many hours of fun. Really a fascinating and ridiculously enjoyable episode Dan! Thanks so much.
Dan Carlin is the only man on the internet I will cancel my plans for
I actually just finished playing Hell Let Lose before I watched this video. It’s an incredible game. It has plenty of tactical war gaming and traditional online gaming mixed together. Commanders and squad leaders matter just as much as the rifleman, medic or engineer (sometimes commanders and SL matter more). I highly recommend it! It’s on Steam.
@tobythetoaster5337
2 жыл бұрын
I can’t believe a developer responsible for my making one of my favourite games, is on an episode with one of my favourite podcast hosts! I, I don’t know what to say
@king6dutch
2 жыл бұрын
@Roland Bonlett 181hrs but I haven't had it long. Great game. The Eastern Front is brutal, those soviets are hard to see in the ruins.
@thedude3369
2 жыл бұрын
Gonna have to check this one out on steam. Thanks.
@Chevelle602
2 жыл бұрын
Hell let loose sucks
@MonstersNotUnderTheBed
2 жыл бұрын
I got 600+hrs in HLL
Oh man, I smiled so wide when Dan mentioned Hearts of Iron while I'm playing HOI4 listening
@myhounddog
2 жыл бұрын
I sent it to my Son who is playing Hoi4
@codycaples3005
2 жыл бұрын
Same hahaha
@ianhernandez9793
2 жыл бұрын
Was about to comment the same thing.
@Jaredskoll
2 жыл бұрын
I just bought it on humble bundle last night before seeing this appear, haha.
Mr. Carlin you are one of my hero’s, I wish you well and hope that one day you’ll do a series each on the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas!!
Dan please come to the UK, I know thousands of History students would like to thank you for inspiring them in person.
For those of you who like this kind of thing you may want to look into a game called War of Rights which came out several years ago (but is still in alpha because they have a really small dev team). It covers the Antietam Campaign of the American Civil War and just like Hell Let Loose would eventually do every soldier on the field is played by a real person. Battles are 150 people per map and recently they have tested and come out with 200 person servers. Attention to detail is also well done and to my knowledge all the weapons and uniforms, and flags (they are not afraid to put the Confederate Battleflag in game) are very historically accurate. The battlefields have been very well recreated and the way that people are encouraged to actually fight in battle lines and formations (it uses a point system, if you fight and die in line your team suffers less point loss than if you died while fighting alone or skirmishing) and encouraged to carry and protect the flag (it is a mobile spawn point for your team but it just be held up to work) is well done, and so is the in game voice communication system, which is based on how close you are to the person speaking. Also just like Hell Let Loose would eventually do in War of Rights you fight over important parts of the battlefields like a certain road or hill. It very much seems like Hell Let Loose might have taken inspiration from that game. In fact from what I have seen Hell Let Loose seems like a WW2 version of War of Rights.
Head shots in HLL are the most satisfying of any game I've played
This episode combines SO many things I enjoy into one awesome package.
Dan, I remember listening to Blueprint for Armageddon like a year and a half ago, and at that time I started playing Hell Let Loose, at some point you'll get either shelled or bombarded and the immersion is so good you can feel some of the desolation and despair those countless souls have felt in a real battlefield, and while being in a safe space in the comfort of your home is not the same thing at all, just put some. of those things into perspective, at least for me, nice episode.
@uscdave1124
2 жыл бұрын
If anything hell let loose has given me a better appreciation for the brutality of the battlefield because death comes quickly, and you typically have no idea where it came from. It really drives home the cruelty of the randomness of the entire endeavor. It also helps me to appreciate the bravery of those men given how quickly they all knew they could die.
Been playing HLL for a couple years now and seeing how it's developed is great and u can see the real historical effort is put into it
@MonstersNotUnderTheBed
2 жыл бұрын
It's amazing. Better than Battlefield by miles. And they keep updating it and making it better.
@MaxDillonCoyle
2 жыл бұрын
I love how it was amazing to begin with and you think it can't get better, nek minnit Hanz getting ze flammenwerfer!
This episode really tugged on my two favorite subjects, gaming and history, please do more of these, there is a developer of Age of empires who does interviews that you may be able to do an episode with for instance. I already own Hell Let Loose but havent played in a while, now you got me wanting to play it again.
"Gary guy jacks" love you Dan.
@kevinmcarthur4074
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, gotta love autocaption
I swear I was re listening the Celtic Holocaust! You are a treasure I love love you sir!
@davidlindenberger7646
2 жыл бұрын
I can’t sleep until I hear about Caesar building a wall and celts getting winded running through earthworks
@MK-573
2 жыл бұрын
Bro king of kings was just Eargasm! Bro if you guys haven’t seen the show Rome do yourself a favor. Every time I think of Julius I just see that guy and damn how insanely genius he was. Just a brilliant tyrant !
Never apologize for telling your stories! They are amazing! Context like this always helps place things into your personal perspective, which I find, and I’m sure many others find extremely fascinating tbh…
The guest is thinking of Age of Empires 2. The Holy Roman Emperor covered was Frederick Barbarossa.
I was a bit surprised and disappointed that he had not experienced the game for himself. Hell Let Lose or Beyond the Wire really bring a specific element of the experience of war in those periods to a level of understanding that I think even someone as knowledgeable as Dan could appreciate.
So excited to hear this one, yet another reason I love Dan (and we share the same name.) When I was little, I took my GI Joe’s EVERYWHERE! Then eventually moved to strategy/war computer games starting with Civilization.
I just want to hear Dan talk about EVERYTHING
Well, now I have to check out this game. Thanks Dan! Another fantastic episode.
@MonstersNotUnderTheBed
2 жыл бұрын
It's an amazing game, experience, and dev team rocks with new updates and fixes.
Lindybeige and Dan in a long form podcast would be heaven.
Only thing I would add to the thing Dan missed in painting the models and everything. I would say it's quite close to what people do when they mod computer games.
I would love to hear Baldemort introducing Dan Carlin to Warhammer 40k, in an "Adeptus Rediculous" sorta way.
So happy you mentioned games such as HLL, underrated game. Way better than anything made by AAA companies
I saw Greyhound because of the Tom Hanks interview and was not dissapointed. HLL is downloading now.
@DelcoAirsoft
2 жыл бұрын
Welcome to the game! Make sure to use your mic and ask a ton of questions if you get confused!
@MonstersNotUnderTheBed
2 жыл бұрын
HLL is amazing. Outstanding WWII experience at the trench level.
Thanks Dan, always a pleasure!
Looking forward to the PUNK ROCK SHOW!!! Two of my favorite things to listen to-Dan Carlin and punk rock!!! Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the subject!!!
YES! It’s like history Christmas when these drop.
10:55 “rule lawyers” nowadays are just people who cheese and take advantage of buggy AI
@MarcRitzMD
2 жыл бұрын
They are actually still the same since tabletop wargaming and RPGs are very much alive
@thewhitemage777
2 жыл бұрын
We still have these in boardgaming, the nickname stuck.
@ianhedeman5684
2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing
@earlpipe9713
2 жыл бұрын
Rules-lawyers are an OG party-pooper class of the nerd race.
The worlds collide. Gamedev and the Harcore history. Epic
Hey! I'm in Kansas City! I'm going to go see that! Thanks, Dan Carlin!
Hell Yeah! Thank you Dan Carlin!
When I was a kid my brothers and I would take all of our army men and line them up in opposing formations and then take marbles and roll them across the floor to attack the enemy troops and knock them over. We used different sized marbles to account for different types of soldiers and we would roll the marble from the position of the one we were attacking with. No math but still fun and your story brought back that old memory
I'd love more of these Dan.
It was a good interview after you got him to quit apologizing for having violence in war games.
On your King of Kings series I knew you played historical games when you described the weapons and formations. Great series for painting mini's for DBMM
The guy Dan is interviewing says “um” every 3rd word.
Thank you so much Dan.
I played the RTK series(for those of you who know the game 😉) for years. Loved reading character bios as much as game play. And one day I read the book, which is 2 thick voulmes most people wont read for reasons beyond me. In all some of the best strategy war games have real historical lessons in them. In my book at least. Great show!
@RamonesFan201
2 жыл бұрын
have you played Three Kingdoms Total War? takes place in the RTK timeline 180-230 and you can pretty much raise an empire from the ashes of the Han Empire. a VERY in depth game if you like to waste time Wu, Shu, Wei are all playable factions plus others including the Nanman Kingdom, Dong Zhuo, Ma Teng. etc. i was a Dynasty Warriors fan myself! lol
Things that I did not expect to make me happy: Dan Carlin being aware of what an FPS is. Things I hope Dan researches: The “No Russian” scene from the CoD franchise, and the “White Phosphorus scene” from spec ops the line.
I saw this video drop, live, when it did. Haven't got around to it until today. *Had no idea the content.* Just this morning, I downloaded "Age Of Empires II" off of Steam, and decided to play while listening to this. What a small world I live in. Haven't touched that game in YEARS. _I mean really. What are the odds?_
I'm glad that the Supernova in the east series has come to an end. Thank Dan and Thank God.
Avalon Hill came out with the 1st computer wargames I remember. Loved them all.
Just here doing my thing for the algorithm. Everybody needs more Dan Carlin in their lives.
Hell Let Loose is a great game. To be played well, you have to communicate well between soldiers, squads and your commander. It also really shows realistically you how quickly/easily you can die in modern warfare and how lucky you have to be to survive. And the maps are all based on historical battles.
I know what I'm doing tonight. Thank you, Dan!
Happy for the content from you
Love your work Dan.
Sitting by a fire smoking a cigar and drinking a beer and see a new Dan Carlin 🙌🙌🙌
OMG you’re talking about my childhood. Feelings. Aero Hobbies and the Last Grenadier
Desperate enough for any Dan Carlin at this point. Rogan soon? Also, common sense? I'm interested ❤️
After the horrific disappointments of battlefield 1 and 5 i cannot wait for this game. Played the beta nonstop for days. Knowing that such a huge part of the player base truly appreciate the thoughtfulness and history behind the game makes it that much more exciting. CONSOLE PLAYERS, CANT WAIT TO SEE ALL OF YOU ON THE BATTLEFIELD TOMORROW!!!
War game simulation ,civilization simulation, total war simulation are my jam, I think I can go Toe to toe with any strategic commander.
Dan have you ever went into the Aztec empire and Cortez’s army? I feel like it would be up there with the Celtic Holocaust episode you did. Thats my favorite work of yours. Anyways I’m a huge fan and came back across your page today and happy to see all these new videos over the last few years thank you for all the work you do and content
Swastika is not banned in games in germany anymore, because games count now as art. Swastika are allowed on art projects in germany.
Love your podcast Dan!
Missed the regular shows. The large series takes a toll.
Thank you Dan!
Thank you dan, I like your addendum episodes. :)
Great interview really enjoyed it, many thanks to the both of you from a fifty five year old that plays Hell Let Loose all most every day 👍
Squad is a great tactical/ cooperative game as well, with a lot of depth
@EntryLevelLuxury
2 жыл бұрын
Yes and "Post Scriptum" is WWII Squad. Seems like a more relevant shoutout, eh? :D
@jb613jb
2 жыл бұрын
@@EntryLevelLuxury you're not wrong, lol... I just don't play post scriptum so I didn't want to comment on it.
My jaw dropped when you said Hell Let Loose. I've been playing for two years and it's absolutely amazing
Thank you Dan! 🙂
WooT! Thanks Dan & Ben!
It's not Charlemagne, it's Frederick Barbarossa 😂
@hazyhalfmoon
2 жыл бұрын
No it’s Patrick
Avalon Hill was a GREAT game maker.
@thewhitemage777
2 жыл бұрын
GMT Games is the AH of the modern era of war gaming.
It's flip the channels until Dan puts out something new, and here it is!
Gifts from the abyss. Love 4 Dan.
Please do the medieval/so called "dark ages" shit. Or, whatever you want: vikings, 100 years war, William Wallace, - your podcast is the best podcast I have stumbled upon on YT
@mach1251
2 жыл бұрын
Grab Thor's Angles off Dan's site, it's about start of the 'dark ages'
Age of Empires was my gateway as well into thousands of hours of history books and podcasts.
I bought my first computer to play the game Wolfpack at home (instead of sneaking in to work on the weekend). You could play either as a U boat attacking or a destroyer protecting a convoy. All sound were through the built in speaker and resolution was vga so most of the game was in your imagination but it was a blast.
As a paradox player this is interesting to hear how people used to play.
For me, war simulation is not just about combat from a FPS perspective (which this and most others seem to be.. Doom clones essentially).. for me its about a deeper experience, learning about War includes gaining an understanding of the importance of logistics in the outcome, combat engineering and planning of FOB's & armoured positions, intel of the opossing forces positions and intentions, counter intel, large scaled planned ops and ultimately providing an open sandbox and a set of rules for large numbers of actual humans (in the thousands, not 100) to act and communicate in real-time as a crowd under these situations.. current hardware really only allows the FPS experience to scale to about 100 players and thats pushing it with the average gamers hardware/internet speed so for a deeper experience with thousands not a hundred players, a top down view real time RTS type interface is where we are at. There really is only one game out there that even approaches that goal and it's name is Foxhole. Several thousand players interact in a persistant war between 2 factions set around WW1/WW2 technology (there is no air power in the game and the outcome is a collabroative effort). We are currently on War 80, come join the cause.
Thank you Dan Carlin, please never stop being you.
I didn’t know about the VR experience at the WWI museum, I’m going to go check it out! I haven’t been in about 12 years…