Loved this interview with Greg. It was refreshing in that it wasn't the exact same questions as every other. To the people trashing CLA or Greg - it's completely normal to be resistant to it and skeptical early on, but I'd encourage you to give it a shot for a month or two. Also, Greg doesn't say that the traditional method and/or drilling doesn't work at all, he just has the opinion (backed by scientific research and academic study) that there's a more efficient way. Even if you set aside the reserach behind CLA for motor learning and skill development - the energy in the room is far better than the traditional approach, IMO. To each their own though - it's just another way to consider. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you you have to do it.

Why are we acting like the Corbe brothers came up under this method? They arrived as elite black belts who had wrestled all their lives. Nothing against the method, but using them as an exemplar of the method is just silly. They learned BJJ by drilling for years.. exactly what Greg criticises.

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching and for your comments. I’m actually trying to get multiple viewpoints on this approach, and I see that you’re a coach as well - would love to do a video chat with you if you’re down! (I’m not trying to make a point about anything, just want to present all sides to this as honestly as possible!)

@Matt2299

2 ай бұрын

Why do you think the Corbe brothers chose to move to Rockville to train under Greg? There has to be something to that, no? Sure they didn't train under that method up to blackbelt, but they saw something that made them want to stick with this method, and it seems to be working out for them.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

@@Matt2299 For sure! I have no doubt that Greg is a great coach who really cares about his guys. I'm also not someone who says the ecological approach is bullshit (I use it daily and have done for a long time). I want the conversation to be fair when we're talking about it and not holding people up as examples without giving the whole story about how they got there. It's dishonest, especially when people are selling instructionals on this stuff (this is not directed at Greg). As for them moving there; thousands of people move all over the world to train every year. I'm not sure a handful of people going to a gym really shows much.

@logman5357

2 ай бұрын

Greg isn’t using them as an exemplar for this method, the opposite. He actually specifically said assigning an approach’s success to the performance of one or two athletes would be incorrect. Did you watch this video?

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

@AEBJJ159 Thanks for elaborating! If you’re down to do a recorded interview, would love to hear more on your viewpoint. My email is: bluebeltcommentary@gmail.com

Techniques don’t exist because there are so many variants. Thats like saying there’s no such thing as a chair because there are so many different styles. “Technique” is a general description of how some mechanic works. We wouldn’t have categories/words for anything because there are too many variants of anything. But yes…less drilling more situational sparring 😂

Awesome video. Stoked for Deandre and Greg and everyone at Standard. Awesome weekend

Bro…. We rolled at a US grappling years ago. He beat me. After I talked to him about training. He told me all about how he drills certain sweep combinations- all he talked about was drilling He’s drilled plenty

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

And he was a black belt long before he started training at Standard.

@themaxjenkinson

2 ай бұрын

So what? He has a strong position on the fundamental way humans optimally learn movement. He teaches that approach now and believes it is the best way. We should all respect this. Others should come along with competing theories. This is how we progress. He has students who have only trained under this system doing well... What's up with the negativity?@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

@jclarkecoach

2 ай бұрын

He’s very vocal about how he used to be an avid driller, and probably drilled too much because that’s how TLI guys are/were

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

@@jclarkecoach yeah, TLI drilling too much is definitely wrong when they’re constantly churning out competitors at the highest level 🤯

@jclarkecoach

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 Greg came from the system, so I’m happy to listen to his views on the pros and cons of the method 👍

I learned some things too from this so I’m grateful you guys connected. Great work Josh for making that happen!

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Thanks Denney for watching, loving discussing all this with you lately!

Love it. We do the same thing with our grappling at the Judo dojo I trained at. You initially learn the technique through drilling (uchi komi), but after that it's all randori at different levels of intensity.

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

Yeah but that’s not necessarily Ecological. Just doing randori or situational sparring is different. This approach breaks it down more subtly and in reaction to what the result of the games turns out to be.

Makes sense. The majority of my techniques used in my rolls come from just years and years of rolling. Only some of the things i drilled stuck with me.

One thing I’ve learned to appreciate about Greg is his willingness to have open communication. If you have a counter-argument or want clarification about something he said, he’s willing to talk it out from a logical standpoint. He’s helped me dig deeper at understanding why I believe certain things & my reasoning for them. Having educated dialogue is a skill in its own.

I know a couple of folks who started their BJJ journey at Standard. It sounded like a rough go, and they eventually left for other academies that were more technically focused. Their feedback was that it was great for folks that already had a strong base in BJJ in grappling.

@gregsouders9648

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 You’re a joke and you have no idea what you’re talking about. Alex was my first world champion at every level (accept brown). But according to you guys she doesn’t count. When I was holding her up to the Jiujitsu community nobody cared. I’m highlighting the bros because they are fantastic students who are trying to reach the highest level and everyone pays attention them.

@gregsouders9648

2 ай бұрын

No one has left my gym for more “technical” gyms. That’s not even a thing. You’re just saying things. Here’s an idea: let’s contact these people, have them come back, I will have them train with our 2 and 3 year students who started here and we will film it.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

I'll take mad up bullshit for $500, Trebek.

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

And a lot of nonsense is: First ridiculed, Second violently opposed and Third dropped as we finally work out it's BS. Not saying this is nonsense but just because something is ridiculed doesn't mean it's truth.

Of course these guys can do this. They have already learned all the important techniques. They already know what to do. Why WOULD they need to do drills they already understand?

its like lifting, there are endless ways to do it and everyone is different. People can definitely learn this way. For a day one person I think the traditional way is better to learn the basics for beginners maybe first 6 months. I think a blend is the way and alot of gyms use a blend of methods. at the end of the day its grappling have fun with it. Bottomline is have fun and enjoy. Props to him and his team for killing it. bros against each other in the final is sick

@danieldelanoche2015

2 ай бұрын

Pretty sure it was semifinals since Deandre faced Krikorian in the finals

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Correct, Deandre faced his brother in the semifinals, and then Keith in the finals

Danaher sounds intelligent when he speaks about his analysis of BJJ. This guy sounds like he's overly abstracting BJJ - the interviewer even had to interrupt and ask "how does this tie back to BJJ", and he had to ramble for minutes to change the subject

@joshgarcia2878

2 ай бұрын

pulled out the thesaurus for this one.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

@@joshgarcia2878 😂

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

It’s because Greg Souders is an arrogant, self absorbed douche

Phenomenal conversation with a pioneer in sports performance.

Great conversation guys! Every time I listen to Greg I learn something new. I can't wait to see EcoD take over more in BJJ!

@gregsouders9648

2 ай бұрын

Thank you for listening

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Thanks Travis!

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

Hey, one of my favorite BJJ podcasts!

@ElbowsTight

Ай бұрын

@@KodiakCombat fancy seeing you here! 🤣

Wrestlers and judokas drill moves millions of times why should Bjj be any different ? John smith says the reason Russians are so dominant in wrestling is cuz they drill so much more than Americans

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

They’re all doing it wrong, even the Olympic medalists! /s

@cdcaleo

2 ай бұрын

Exactly right. in fact, Russians dominate olympic wrestling with a heavy emphasis on drilling, situational sparring, and only occasional heavy, combative "live" wrestling. Constant live sparring breaks down the body and causes too much long term damage to be profitable in the long term.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

​@@cdcaleowrong definition of "live." Can train live daily without breaking down.

@cdcaleo

Ай бұрын

@@KodiakCombat Get back to me when you're 50.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

@@cdcaleo being 10 years older doesn't change your misuse of the term. Jfc. Lmfao.

20:24 is a basic rule of breaking and strangling is it not? If I try to break the elbow by creating a fulcrum underneath it, apply pressure at the wrist end of the arm, unless I have immobilised the body/shoulder there will be too much movement and not enough breaking pressure.

One thing we can all agree on is that a lot (most?) of BJJ training methods are suboptimal. Showing a technique, drilling it for 5 mins. Another tech. Another. Then sparring. Don't see that tech again for 6 months. That IS stupid. If you're lucky you get situational sparring: you get to start from the position or have the technique as a goal. That is much better but still far from optimal as often you don't even get the tech going under fire. So recognising the goals and steps in between and gamifying them makes a lot of sense. I've been trying to do this in open mat: E.g. for late stage guard retention/avoiding side-control I've considered the importance of avoiding the cross face and farside underhook, so made that the goal of a game: top guy has to get either, bottom guy has to stop both. Add in bottom guy now has to get to his side. Then to bottom guy has to use this to get a knee in or to his knees. Over the course of maybe just half an hour, a whitebelt can develop skills to the point where it starts gettng genuinely hard to get a settled side control on them. Is that Ecological? Probably not strictly speaking but sure as hell is useful.

What I think we are realizing in the jiujitsu world is the only thing that is going to make you good is consistency to the game. Doesn't really matter if you do conventional drilling, situational sparring, or this constraint based approach. The most important thing is that you enjoy the training and stay consistent.

The problem here is that all of these "non drillers" spent years drilling to get technique and movement patterns memorized, and then claim they don't need to drill. Deandre is also a unique human being, as any really competitive combat athlete is, and is not representative of what the average trainee would need to get a handle on jiu jitsu.

Man these guys think they are reinventing the wheel 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@unfortuanately

2 ай бұрын

No one ever said anything about invention/reinvention.

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

He takes positional sparring and just calls it something else

@user-dy8ub5il8n

2 ай бұрын

@@joebeast15they are not the same. Your lightbulb is too dim to do the research and find out what it actually is

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

@@user-dy8ub5il8n oh because you are so smart and enlightened and talk down to people and spew pseudoscience to people and sell it like snake oil. Whooooo I’m impressed

@user-dy8ub5il8n

2 ай бұрын

@@joebeast15 no because I actually researched into it beyond watching a short video on KZread. It’s not my fault you have an IQ of 56 and are incapable of grasping the concepts he discusses.

I think this is a debatable approach and IMHO active drilling at various dynamic levels of intensity progression has worked well for me -- especially scenario deepdive. In Judo proper repetition is extremely important in order ro develop muscle mem and confidence. In randori-only practices unless a partner allows and accepts the ippon does help in the "ecological" growth of the practioner. However, that is not always the case. There also minute details that have to be taken into account in order to incorporate them and subsequently perform them with power and speed. Uchikomi here ia essential.

@jclarkecoach

2 ай бұрын

To play devils advocate, how does ‘active drilling at various dynamic levels of intensity progression work’? I come from a Straight Blast Gym background which works around the 3 I method (Introduce, Isolate and Integrate) so I’m familiar with aliveness and progressive resistance, but what is 25%? What is 50% if you’re going 25% but I have to go 36% to get it working is that ok? & do you then go ‘52%’ if we can quantify what that is to stop me being able to achieve success?

@TheTechPapi

2 ай бұрын

Yeah that's a good point... But yeah it's exactly that at what I was referring too. It's hard to quantify exactly what 30% mean exactly. I think when I do it my resistance is way looser when playing guard allowing my partner to execute the pass. At 50% I start being more annoying and responding more in a nonlinear fashion -- switching grips or frames for example. Then on a free situational I then start in the scenario but now I add way more pulling and off balancing ... Not necessarily that much strength but way more annoyance and control. Hey BTW that methodology of training at your gym sounds interesting -- haven't heard of it until now.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

What is a proper repetition? Is it proper if the person is taller? Fatter? Bald? What is muscle memory? What does that mean? How does it apply when the physical variables of the opponent change?

Reminds me of the whole arnold high volume v mike mentzer low volume argument - both are effective in different ways.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

Neither are considered nearly optimally effective by modern trainers.

For the people who don't know, Deandre doesn't pretend that he's never drilled. He openly says though that he had to unlearn a lot of what he was taught to acclimate to the new approach. For what it's worth if you look back at his competition record (ideally black belt but you can include it all) before and after training with Standard the difference is night and day.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

Yeah but how much of that is him maturing into his prime? He’s like 28 or 29 now versus when he first got his black belt like at 23. Of course an athlete is going to be better as they go into their prime years.

@colinh9454

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 The thing is he isn't just getting better. From month to month we're seeing jumps in his game that guys at other teams, similar ages, more experience are not getting. I don't doubt that maturing as an athlete helps, but he's clearly doing something right in his training given how he's over taking guys who a year ago were beating/giving him trouble ex. Gianni Grippo.

@colinh9454

2 ай бұрын

​@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 For sure, I think pin pointing any one particular variable and saying its causal is probably disingenuous. However we're not looking at a casual relationship, its more of the relative effect of one variable in relation to others, more specifically the weighting. I would venture to say practice design goes a long way in helping cultivate an athletes skill. Also, yeah right now Deandre (and Gavin to a lesser extent) are outliers of this "system". We will get a better sense of where the team as a whole is at within the next 3-5 years.

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

​@@colinh9454doesn't Greg have a female champion that has only done Standard?

Where I can watch Deandre cobre super cut ? at flo ?

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s on Flo!

This was amazing.

I think the reputation is that it is a constraints led approachbut really it is an intentions led approach?

🔥🔥🔥🔥

Wasn't Corbe already black belt or brown belt when he joined Standard? Anyways, the only thing eco has proven to me is that SPARRING volume matters. The best in the world train a shit ton. And that's the recipe to become high level. Pros have high volume. Also drilling has absolute merit. Just look at Judo, the beauty and efficiency of the techniques at Olympic cannot be achieved without patterns being baked into their training.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

He was already black belt for a while. So I guess he never drilled on his way to black belt 🤦‍♂️

@jiujitf0018

2 ай бұрын

​@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 I've trained with him. Him and his brother used to drill A TON. We started off with drilling at the beginning of Sunday Comp Class. And yes, he was a black belt before standard. Super intelligent and motivated guy and a lot of his techniques were self taught. Eco approach works perfect for someone at his level, I don't think it works well for lower belts and beginners.

@jclarkecoach

2 ай бұрын

But how much variation and variability is there in the throwing techniques that we do? Does fatigue play a big part? In practice the techniques look clean, in reality the often look messy but effective. Why not focus on the messy part

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

@@jiujitf0018I agree with this. This is a measured take.

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

@@jiujitf0018 I dunno. I think it might work very well indeed for brand new people. New white belts are usually utterly confused for months on end and unable to do even a single technique well whislt being bombarded with new ones.

this is my favorite Greg Souders interview so far. Most people ask him about basic stuff that you wouldn't question if you heard another podcast or read Rob Gray's first book. This one feels a bit more deep

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Great to hear! Thanks for watching. I tried to do all my required reading first 😂

I dont know if his method really is better, but we are so early in the sport, people should have an open mind, also obviously people that use the traditional approaches will be winning everything now, from olympics to adcc, since thats the only method people are using.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. I don’t think anyone has issues with trying out new training methods. To your point, it’s still too early say which training method is better as we don’t have a track record in BJJ with this. People can point to papers and studies from other sports but IMO that’s irrelevant.

I’ll add more validity to his training method when he brings someone from white to black belt that is at an elite level. The Corbe brothers came to him as elite grapplers.

If people go and watch the Danaher episode of the Lex Friedman podcast, Danaher has nearly the exact same critique of static drilling as Saunders. Danaher says that static drilling a move over and over again will not get you better. That people need a steady increase in resistance when drilling that move. People always start out drilling, but then they progress to positional , and then situational sparring. This “ecological” approach seems to just be fancy language to describe something people are already doing

@joshbeambjj

9 күн бұрын

Yeah the critiques are very similar, but their solutions in some cases are pretty different. For example, in the video you mention, Danaher describes using progressively resistant drilling, and also describes drilling partners as being like good dance partners. On the other hand, Souders is advocates for live work only. He never has students drill. It’s exclusively CLA.

Kano wrote (Mind over Muscle) that he preferred students to learn Kata through Randori and only when he had way too many students (due to his success) did he turn to rehearsed Kata because of spacial limitation. It is possible that he became so successful that he was forced to stop doing the thing that was making him successful in the first place.

Kit Dale been saying this for decades but seems like this is a "new" thing

@KodiakCombat

Ай бұрын

Yes and no.

I think this is genuinely interesting but Mr. Sounders explaining how one drinks water is unintentional parody - like it could be a copypasta. 3:29

@stevena8719

2 ай бұрын

Hundred percent, tism detected

The biggest difference about Judo and BJJ is that the skill ceiling to execute a Judo throw is MUCH higher compared to BJJ. A BJJ is filled with techniques that requires much less drilling, which could be an explanation why the ecological may be appropriate. Static drilling is CRUCIAL for beginner Judo, and to a some degree, lower level BJJ. From what I understand, you need build a foundation first before you start the Ecological method, and what is considered "adequate" could vary person to person. You start using the ecological method too early, you may end up building bad habits, or may even halt your progression, due to amassing too many bad habits. In Judo the drilling is much more critical in terms of practicing the art. A bad throw can hurt the Uke and the Tori. It takes months of learning how to fall and to execute a move to start randori. Starting practice too early will likely result in poor training experience or even injury.

@louisdlariviere3824

2 ай бұрын

I completely agree with you but nowadays it even shows in the sport the instant gratification is a priority for some individuals

@tatamitalk

2 ай бұрын

I run the beginners program at my dojo using CLA and small sided games, and I almost don't have them do any static drilling outside of maybe warmups. I also don't teach uchikomi first to beginners, it's always after they are able to do the throw against a resisting opponent already, just so they are able to know how to do uchikomi if they visit other classes/dojos. I also almost always have beginners start taking falls from day 1. It's been 2 years I've been teaching like this and so far the only injuries I've seen is a torn thumb ligament from it getting stuck in the gi during grip fighting, few sprained toes and a sprained ankle. Since I'm not the head instructor I don't have full control of of the curriculum and work in whatever ecological approach tools I can, but from what I've seen so far I agree with Greg regarding uchikomis. It has its place but it is over emphasized.

@sungjinkim712

2 ай бұрын

@tatamitalk I could make the argument break falls are in itself are uchikomis. But I do agree with you that you don't do uchikomis to a tota beginner. Only after they are able to do the movement would you do that in order to build muscle memory. "Resisting opponents" is a hard way to quantify when a person is able to execute a throw. Does it really count if the person that is being throw doesn't know how to resist?

@tatamitalk

2 ай бұрын

@@sungjinkim712 yes cause most beginners aren't able to throw a resisting opponent. And I don't have them do any uchikomis at all is basically what I'm saying. Not sure what you mean by the break fall comment since I just have people taking falls right away in the games.

positional sparring

I think after reaching a certain level in jiu-jitsu this style of training works. For your beginners though, this can be disastrous.

@caiobastos5192

2 ай бұрын

I’d argue the opposite, this approach simplifies the way you view the game of jitsu, as a beginner I was overwhelmed and confused by the traditional approach and having to memorize 1000+ techs/guards etc. With the eco method you get right down to what grappling really is, two bodies interacting…

@bloodsports94

2 ай бұрын

@@caiobastos5192 You're an idiot. Two bodies interacting... lmao. Sure buddy. You can't learn new techniques without drilling.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

@@caiobastos5192 you can argue all you want but what does the actual real life evidence say?

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

@@caiobastos5192 oh? So how would a beginner learn how to do an armlock or a triangle from the bottom for instance? Just kinda wing it? Just magically fall into it? Or would they have to have it broken down and have the mechanics explained?

@caiobastos5192

2 ай бұрын

@@joebeast15 teach the student that pinning an opponent down allows you to isolate limbs and break them, teach them the principles that must be present for an armbar to happen (be parallel, attach to shoulder, separate hands), and then set an environment where they can self organize and yes that specific technique will arise in its true form (which is different every time), allowing student to discover all the variations that come with it and not limit them to one specific armbar over and over in a static drill which cannot be repeated in the same fashion in a live roll.

Ecological is just way more fun. We never drill or do warm ups.

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

How did you learn how to do a triangle choke? That’s not something, with ZERO context, that you can just wing. How did you learn it ?

Some say 70% drilling 30% sparring. Some gyms do 50/50. This gym does 0/100. Do what works for you

I’d like to see context, how are his day one beginners, who have zero experience, masters 1,2,3,4 ppl who work office jobs I don’t care for the talented young kids who are amazing athletes, Im not doubting this guy, but I judge a good coach by how good he can make someone who isn’t athletic and sucks lol

@gavinm3480

2 ай бұрын

We all work office jobs haha. If you are ever in town, feel free to stop by and train. Visitors train for free.

Doesnt danaher and b team drill? They seem pretty good.

@joshbeambjj

Ай бұрын

Indeed 😂

Maybe for him. Probably works for others too but we all learn different. Does danaher drill with his guys

“Stop drilling” is clickbait. It’s semantics. They are still drilling it’s just better designed drills. Short sided games are drills. Constraint lead exercises are still drills. We have been using “alive drills” for decades. If you wanna say “stop using dead drills with no pressure or objectives.” Ok that’d be fine.

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

I wouldn't call them drilling. Drilling is repetitive movement designed to build muscle memory.

🔥💪🏽💪🔥🌿🏆🏅👍🏽👍

I can't say if he is wrong, but I can say that he is arrogant.

This is beyond me as a beginner don’t you need technique drills to learn at all I understand for higher levels but what about starting is it obsolete to even train techniques??

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

He actually does his “foundations” classes (which includes new white belts etc.) with the same methods. I think the point is that it should work for any level.

@alfredopena6956

2 ай бұрын

@@joshbeambjj thank you ! I also have another question do most schools not actually roll or expect open mats or something I only started recently and my gym does the beginning classes and the rolling in side classes as well is that not widely practiced??

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

@alfredopena6956 most schools roll plenty! Some schools have limited rolling during normal classes tho, and some don’t even let white belts roll until a certain number of stripes. This is very uncommon, though.

It just makes bad habits and eventually bjj and its techniques will die out if this was practiced by the majority.

🤌🏽🤌🏽🤌🏽🤌🏽

Bjj is a lot like jazz

@RageNg

2 ай бұрын

Ew 🤢

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

everything after about 1960 is crap?

@ratamahatta1300

8 күн бұрын

@@RaveyDavey 😅😅😅

What about the people who arnt chasing medals and shit just f or the lifestyle and benefits

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Been interviewing a bunch of coaches from different gyms around the world, and I’m currently making a video that’ll address topics like that, including exactly your question - whether this approach works for hobbyists like it does for competitors. Short answer is yes, according to the experience of these coaches.

@aPerfectcircle23

2 ай бұрын

@@joshbeambjj I competed naga and other Philly tournaments won 2 golds silver and bronze sub only 25lb heavy bracket bc I was over one lb lol I might compete masters one more time but it will be in the gi I think and drilling is important to me

I like this method but if non of the schools around dont believe in this and run there school the old traditional way that how can you possibly apply that in your training without disrespecting your instructors way of teaching and training?

@RaveyDavey

8 күн бұрын

open mat is the only way

The coach thinks he created Corbe. Corbe was a stud wrestler before he joined a gym.

@firehousehostel75

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 Yup, he's trying so hard to be the next Danaher. Every sport requires repetition; he's trying to bring down "BJJ drilling" to push this so called idea he claims he "invented". He's just referring to reaction drilling in a concise context, which virtually every good jiujitsu student does.

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101he’s also just an insufferable, arrogant douchebag too

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

@@BrazilianJiuJitsu101 Greg Souders is also an acolyte of Lloyd Irvin. That alone will make me question their character as his cults escapades came to the light in the last decade or so. On a personal level, he’s insufferable as well. He’s super arrogant, disrespectful, and comes off like a grifter and a blowhard. He talks shit about other schools and other coaches and purports to have some intellectual edge on his competitors by taking one thing and just calling it something else. Really can’t stand this guy

Do golfers repeatedly practice core skills? 3-gun shooters? Boxers? Basketball players? Getting good at anything requires repetitive practice. This is just some guy trying to carve out his own "special" niche to be different, in spite of reality or sound reasoning. He wouldn't sound cool if he had just said, "we don't drill too much."

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

I think the thing about golfers though, for example, is that they are doing isolated movements as part of the actual sport, which actually Rob Gray provides a lot of examples of in "How We Learn to Move", and "Learning to Optimize Movement". The CLA is still valid in that case. Actually, he uses a lot of popular sports (striking and basketball as well) at length as examples that have been studied (as in, actual scientific studies) for the ecological approach (and the CLA, differential learning, etc.). The literature goes quite in-depth on those.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

@@joshbeambjj can we all agree that literature and real practice are two different things? Olympic judokas and wrestlers drill techniques millions of times; where do we see the same using this alternate method?

No, he didn’t.

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

Why do you say that?

Basketball and the NBA has been doing this for decades. Idk what he's talking about.

@joshbeambjj

2 ай бұрын

How so?

Bro's are trying to reinvent the wheel with this."Ecological BJJ Bullshido"

don't get it twisted people, this kid would most likely be a world class athlete regardless of what school he was in. Sometimes it's just the athlete and not the method. You can try new things but what has worked for the past 50-100 years will not stop working all of a sudden

@bennmurray6459

2 ай бұрын

Nobody said the method of the last 50-100 years doesn’t work or will stop working. They’re saying there appears to be a more efficient way to develop skill.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

He literally got his black belt and became an elite athlete under the usual methods. I've no doubt he has gotten much better in the last few years, but let's stop pretending he's the poster child for the ecological approach. Dude has drilled all of his life. Stop this BS

@bennmurray6459

2 ай бұрын

@@AEBJJ159 again, nobody is saying the old way doesn’t work. They’re saying there may be a more efficient way. I don’t understand how this is so difficult to understand.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

@@bennmurray6459 except Greg literally is. He says all the time that drilling is just a waste of time and doesn't work. You can choose to ignore that all you want, but don't tell me that's not what he's saying.

@bennmurray6459

2 ай бұрын

@@AEBJJ159he doesn’t say it doesn’t work. He does say it’s a waste of time. Which brings it back to being inefficient. Imagine that! I don’t understand, why watch/listen to things just to disagree with them? How boring is your life mate?

Technically Corbe taught everything to himself. He had no coach. He is his own coach. He doesn’t even need to watch Jiu Jitsu. His body figures it out for himself.

@IVANTRADESGOLD

2 ай бұрын

Very good comment, love it

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

So so wrong. Dude had a coach like everyone else for YEARS! Came up under a normal kids program and got his black belt training like everyone else. Also wrestled at a decent level for years.. I really don't get why we're doing this

@chcknpie04

2 ай бұрын

@@AEBJJ159whoosh

@SpiralBJJ

2 ай бұрын

@@AEBJJ159 he went from a good black belt to winning trials after not drilling for 3+ years, training in a smaller gym that’s not packed with higher ranked people.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

@@SpiralBJJ He went from a state champion wrestler and high-level black belt to winning trials in 4 years. Fair enough, I've no doubt he's gotten much much better. As for him training without a lot of higher level guys, imo this is exactly the scenario in which the ecological approach works best, so it's not surprising they're killing it.

the thing is bjj is like weight lifting, you have to start with low weight and then build strength to go to the heavier weight using the thing called "progressive overload". I think bjj is the same, you have to start slow and no resistance which is drilling and start your way to more resistance and more fast till you dont have to think about the move to actually do it, the details around it and environment will always be different, but doesnt mean the technique is different itself, its basically saying like if you're making a business, you can't follow how top business do, because its a different business? no you can always follow them of how they work and then adapt that concepts and implementing it to your business, in BJJ, its the same, lets say you do sumi gaeshi, the important thing is pushing your leg to the ground to generate force and removing their hand to base, does that mean with different opponent, the concept of pushing your leg to the ground and removing the hand to base changes? NO its still the same. This way of training of bjj, which you remove drilling and just do sparring, its basically like what you call in weight lifting "ego lifting" where you are not strong enough to lift the weight but you do it anyway. Its basically the same thing with jiujitsu, whats the point of doing the move if you dont know the details and how to actually properly do it. i do find this interesting though if you already know jiujitsu and you're basically like already high level, this way of training maybe could work, but for a beginner this way of training definitely doesnt work.

@pdsm1552

2 ай бұрын

As someone who teaches exclusively using the ecological approach. Beginners respond to this extremely well. I’ve seen progress in 2 months from beginners that I would only expect from someone after a couple years of training.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

@@pdsm1552 As a coach who has used all sorts of methods, @daze8951 is 100% correct. Relying purely on the ecological approach and never drilling will stunt development. Relying on people figuring everything out themselves is so stupid. The reason the sport has grown so quickly is because we can look at what people did before us and build upon that (that goes for developing any skill). Practice isn't difficult to get right: Drill with no resistance until your body can do the movement > progressively add resistance until you can hit it against good guys in live rounds > Troubleshoot any specific issues along the way by adding constraints to focus training on those issues. Rinse and repeat.

@BrazilianJiuJitsu101

2 ай бұрын

@@pdsm1552 how are you measuring this progress vs how you used to do it?

This type of mentally will end up transforming Jiu-jitsu into some bs that people are forgetting the history, the tradition and the samurai mentality. This is the way to make something amazing, became like any commercial rubbish

@kevkingjj

Ай бұрын

not everyone is into jiu jitsu for the martial art aspect. it's a combat sport and couldn't care less about its traditions

don't see anything "new" here tbh just regular work

The method is just theoretical . If it was really superior I think it will be readily apparent . There is nothing new under the sun

@joshbeambjj

Ай бұрын

It's not just theoretical, it works. Greg's been training many people (beginners and advanced) since 2016 I think, and people get good.

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

Then refute it, and stop running your mouth.

You do both. Duh.

Can' tell if this guy is legit or not? Sounds like a lot of jargon but maybe that's just the way he talks.

This guy thinks he invented fire.🤣🤣🤣🤣

A lot of angry guys here who can't accept different training methods

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

A lot of low intellects here that don’t even understand the ecological approach to skill acquisition at all, you can tell by the absence of any actual refutations. Thats fine keep doing your bs move of the day and keep being average.

Greg is trying to peddle thing that we already do in wrestling to sell seminars.😒

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

Thats funny because i have trained in a couple dozen bjj schools and not a single way uses the ecological approach. Maybe your just being a d bagg?

There is practice in sports diff positions I played baseball my entire life but his guy blows lol

Bullshit

Ecological Bullshido being peddled to sell seminars. Drilling works great.

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

No one said drilling does not work, but not understanding something is not the same as it not working, i train this way and gave up drilling 100% i do no training that is not live and i bet i put you on your back and i bet you never ever get back up after that. How about them apples.

These guys drill is all click bait

Heres the thing... without physically doing the technic a bunch of time.. its gunna be super hard to do it live. I think what happens over time is you end up training strategies over technics When you do something becomes just as important as how you do it... specially if its a broad idea like wrestle ups.

His brother beat dominic as well they are both killers. The idiots at ADCC to make them go against each other in the semis should be fired. should have been at opposite ends of the bracket with tho only chance meeting in the final.

@AEBJJ159

2 ай бұрын

I don't think you understand what you're talking about, or the history of ADCC. It is 100% intentional to never have close teammates meeting in the final if avoidable and it's far from idiotic.

Don’t disagree with this approach but he is coming off extremely arrogant . Needs to take it back a bit

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

No, you need to stop assuming you know how a person should be. Maybe he needs to be this way to wade through the hordes of whiny soft man-children that get triggered by big words and new methods.

@ShiaSource313

Ай бұрын

@@ryanthompson3446 you could be confident without being arrogant.

@ryanthompson3446

Ай бұрын

@@ShiaSource313 thats your perception, if your going to fail to understand something valuable because you perceive the messenger a certain way thats your problem. Or why don’t you do what he is doing but better?

Bro stop trying to reinvent the wheel we already use those techniques in wrestling and still drill. You guys aren't comming up with something new just hyping up old strategies.🤣People drill because it works and is effective.

@gregsouders9648

2 ай бұрын

Your ignorance is staggering, however par for the course.

I love how Greg Souders doesn’t ever give his athletes the credit. Their individual performances and their accomplishments simply become avenues for him to push his pseudoscience BS. Everything goes back to him. He’s the one that deserves the credit, not his athletes. That’s kinda messed up. Why doesn’t he give them credit? It’s all about his snake oil he’s pushing. If you can’t tell, I’m not a fan of this guy

This isn’t a typical band wagon. Countless hours of study and hands on work. A LOT of posers in the ”jiu jitsu community”. Greg’s style of training is real, posers don’t like real.

You can't learn new tecniques without drilling. Everything he learned is from drills.

@SpiralBJJ

2 ай бұрын

The first person to do a thing never drilled it.

@Rievoldt

2 ай бұрын

@@SpiralBJJ They also probably sucked at it

@joebeast15

2 ай бұрын

That’s what I’m saying. How did he learn how to do a triangle? You just kinda stumbled you way into that? Please. Get the f out of here with that

Sounds like bullshit. He is just renaming a form of drilling. Drilling is always going to be key.

Heres the thing... without physically doing the technic a bunch of time.. its gunna be super hard to do it live. I think what happens over time is you end up training strategies over technics When you do something becomes just as important as how you do it... specially if its a broad idea like wrestle ups.