The "copy" of Vance could have been a manifestation of The Witness, similar to our first interaction with it at the end of Shadowkeep. Vance is blind, but this is Destiny; there is more than one way to *see*

@roybokelman4215

11 ай бұрын

Had that though when I first read the lore piece.

That portal into the ship transition was surprisingly smooth

@cullenluper

11 ай бұрын

I was gonna say that!! Haha it was

@marianmechkov4185

11 ай бұрын

what

@main.ignisha

10 ай бұрын

3:33

Brother Vance was fucking awesome, mysterious and intriguing in D1 … then they character assassinated him and continue to dunk on him and to this day Sad really

@ringomandingo1015

11 ай бұрын

ON GOD BRUH… I’m still mad

@SelecaoOfMidas

11 ай бұрын

Agreed, turned him from a Tier 2 sub into a Tier 4 sub, and for what exactly? 😂😢🤔

@SpikeRazzor

11 ай бұрын

Never understood that.

"You are everything to me." - Vance "I don't even know who you are." - Osiris

Consider the gun's name "Targeted Redaction" - as in removal of specific information. Could it be that Savathun was the one who removed any recollection of Brother Vance from Osiris's memory? Since Osiris could access Savathun's memories, the perhaps the opposite was true as well.

@HAVOCSLEGACY

11 ай бұрын

Nah he just doesn't know who Vance is

@lachiripiolca

11 ай бұрын

I like this theory. Most of the time guns names are meamingful. Also, Asher Mir and Sloane are back, the rule of thirds puts mercury and Vance on the next appearance next season

@Beelzemonsama

11 ай бұрын

This is exactly what I was thinking, that whatever message Mara entrusted Vance to deliver to Osiris was something that savathun did not want to be known at the time

@IsbjisEubsbue

11 ай бұрын

@HAVOCSLEGACY He talked to Vance before regarding his advances on Darkness related phenomena with Guardians. So he has no real reason to forget about him regarding the danger he dabbles in. It could be that Osiris no longer being a lightbearer and only barely dabbling with Darkness makes him more susceptible to being affected by Vex timey-wimey shenanigans.

@OthersideSparrow

11 ай бұрын

I really like this theory, ngl. The guns name makes too much sense here.

F in the chat for the homie Vance

@hubismaximus

11 ай бұрын

... who?

@xx3rdworldninjaxx

11 ай бұрын

Who?

@Pit.Badger

11 ай бұрын

Who?

@DJ_Dermo07

11 ай бұрын

What chat?

@eranronen573

11 ай бұрын

Bro

Hot Dam. Not even a Sunburn from Mercury could reach the level of that burn.

wait. THATS why the trials of osiris existed?! huh, that's... I kind of dig it, honestly.

I wouldn't be surprised if next season or the season before Lightfall takes us back to Mercury. It sounds to me like the Infinite Forest is going to be key for figuring out a safe way of entering the Traveler's Portal. I think the thing Vance discovered and attacked was The Witness, or some variation of himself controlled by it, especially since in Season of Undying apparently all possible futures turned blank after we killed the Undying mind. What Vance encountered could've been the very thing the Witness is trying to create, an absolute obedient life form w/Stasis.

@Alak-Hul_Darkblade

11 ай бұрын

Before light fall?

@ronaldmayorga7962

11 ай бұрын

@@Alak-Hul_Darkblade My bad, Final Shape 😓

@mecaxs658

11 ай бұрын

Honestly this is making me picture the witness sending a doppelgänger to follow Vance like how the guardian met their doppel in the black garden. The Witness’s sending a doppel of just one random guy as it’s honest and only attempt at infiltrating the infinite garden, this godlike being, a entire civilisation……gives up after a tiny part of it gets it’s eyes poked

@ronaldmayorga7962

11 ай бұрын

@@mecaxs658 to be fair, the Witness did manipulate Clovis, a single human, into creating Exo's for some reason we might see in Final Shape. It probably didn't take much either. It likely doesn't think too highly of basic humans and thought the bare minimum was necessary. No one can account for Human Fantasticism, not even God's apparently

@lucatamburello4545

11 ай бұрын

A mercury season could explain the savathun must return thing because maybe the savathun that returns is not just current savathun rezzed again but a past savathun we contacted through mercury Altough current savathun ks more likely to end up allying with us I believe

I think it's funny that you interpreted the lore as Osiris literally forgetting who Vance was. When I first read it I interpreted it as Osiris pulling a "Y'all hear something?" instead. I can't decide which interpretation is funnier

@gabrielgalasso4899

11 ай бұрын

I think the yall hear something one is funnier

@ford427v8

11 ай бұрын

Playing it straight is what I thought as well, considering how so far off Osiris's radar Vance really is. However, the alternative that Osiris is deliberately feigning ignorance works too, since it's funny to think of Osiris using ironic humor in the middle of an interpersonal talk with Saint.

Are there any "Guardians" in the lore who just don't really use their powers like the drifter but choose to remain essentially anonymous to the Vanguard?

@zigzaghyena

11 ай бұрын

Well if there are, then they are much better at it then he is.

@Laachen

11 ай бұрын

Efrideet's pacifist colony. We thought it was Neptune/Nephele/Neomuna, but she was missing and we didn't see any lightbearers.

@BatMan-sg9kh

11 ай бұрын

@@Laachen Theres still Enceladus that had the DSC removed from it

@nemokrad2650

11 ай бұрын

Isn’t the idea that we don’t actually know what’s on Enceladus?

@BatMan-sg9kh

11 ай бұрын

@nemokrad2650 The concept art and Cayde's description of Enceladus line up perfectly with what Europa would later become so we know there was at least an original vision to have a braytech exoscience facility there from which cayde claims to have been born from, but now that idea is scrapped for unknown reasoning and we don't have any fucking idea if they're ever going to bring back Enceladus.

Remember that lore bit from the unknown disciple? Consider the other disciples back stories. Pain, loss, pride.... Vance has been clowned on for the longest, he's got trauma, and he was on to something with those tones from the spires when guardians die on Mercury. Given that humanity has rejected him, he might make a hell of a disciple.

@dictatorjames7033

11 ай бұрын

Brother Vance, Disciple of the Witness

@sabrecat3460

11 ай бұрын

​@@dictatorjames7033💀 but 🤡

As Master Roshi once said, "Hmm... Gonna need a senzu for that one."

I think the lore around the copy of Vance is actually quite simple, it's a Vex - probably a goblin or Hobgoblin. Though it does have the interesting implication of the Vex probably only having a surface level of information on Vance - or at least his missing eyes. I think the Vex had to extrapolate from incomplete data as to what is beneath the blindfold, which is why Vance noted that there were eyes present. This has some odd implications to me though - specifically on the note of how he lost his eyes, as it must have been a paracausal "thing" that made him loose those eyes, as to what that is, I got no fucking clue though based on presedence of "paracausal stuff that has to do with eyes" I would say it was a hive ritual... which only makes a passing bit of sense as I am not aware of any lore linking Vance to the Hive? Unless we wanna pull a "Savathuns plan" card... which would be dragged close with little merit? Was he maybe a prototype for getting deepsight onto a guardian? Maybe, but it doesnt really make sense

Wow, a theme in Destiny i never knew we had: Parasociality.

“Brother Vance, Osiris’ biggest…fan.” -insert “OOOOOOOOOHHH!” meme

I want Vance to come back as a villain. Both Sloane and Asher came back as some sort of ally, but he is a more darker character. Maybe he learned about the true shape and got inspired and realized that Osiris never cared or even noticed him. He could be a decent seasonal villain and it would be funny if sometime at the middle of the season Osiris confronted him to stop his plan but he couldn't remember his name or something and only made it worse.

Byf saying "I'll see you starside" is a large reason I'm still playing the game.

It feels like the name "Targeted Redaction" might be a little more important to this, especially considering the nature of the vex and time. It wouldn't be the first time that the Vex has erased someone from history, or hidden another one away. Not saying that is what has happened, but given the nature of the Infinite Forest and the mechanics of the vex, there might be other things at play here than just classical Osiris behaviors.

@eemelisaurila9940

11 ай бұрын

I though about this too, however if he was redacted by the vex, Saint would also not remember him, right? Unless they very specifically targeted only Osiris' memory?

Osiris unknowingly bodying a blind dude

Back in the Destiny 1 days I always pictured the Cult of Osiris as the exiled group of guardians and civilians that carved themselves a city into the vex citadels on Mercury led by Osiris. Some other faction based out of the city that we’d some day need to team up with. As you can imagine I was incredibly disappointed with how Curse of Osiris turned out :(

Ouch. That burn triggered my Sol Invictus.

“Who” had me CACKLING in game when I first read it. 🤣

"Who?"😂😂😂 damnnn poor Vance

“A tale that’s different from the rest: the thread unfurls against the clocks. The one the Speaker loved the best must have a perfect paradox.” ]]]Lysander………How long did it take for the Speaker to see that you were right? In Darkness, there is only one truth: the self-honing edge.[[[

Honestly, what if we got Vance as a villain that snapped to reality and realized how terrible Osiris treated him in the past? The wasted years of his life following someone wanting his approval and he just snaps while in the Infinite Forest? Seeing all these instances of Osiris around him? Just ends up making him hit a breaking point of realization and when we end up back at the Lighthouse, he's going by a new name and has unlocked greater power. Even an apology from Osiris is not enough and we have to track down key bits of data in the Infinite Forest to allow us to break down Vance and his security system to be able to get to the broken man himself? That being the weekly cycle. Gather that information and use it to get into the Lighthouse and ether settle down Vance or put him down.

@supXXxXXg546

11 ай бұрын

Reply for the Algorithm. But this right here seems like a really good bet.

@theweedphilosopher

11 ай бұрын

Shh bungie loves recycling old content

Brother Vance always gave me villain vibes. He might join the darkness

Brother Vance been glazing all these years for no reason

Vance? Welp, treat someone like a celebrity, get treated like a fan.

16:23 guardian orders collectively sharply in hail between their teeth “Ouch”

I can't believe I just heard your voice and flashbacked to Halo Reach. You're ReachForgeNetwork?! I remember playing with you on some SX tracks back in the day, holy crap man. Good times

Im so glad you covered this, when i read that lore tab i couldnt stop laughing about it 😂😂😂

I’m pretty sure I’d remember “some guy” who started a ritualistic killing tournament in my name. Especially if my bf essentially steals that idea after the IX attempted to “improve” that tournament only to inevitably get bored of their game show they’ve created and make a newer one that they aren’t bored of, but refuse to add anything new to it. Truly the IX are mysterious

It’s not a take down. I genuinely think he doesn’t know who he is. Salvathun most likely wiped that memory from him.

Completely glossing over the name of the weapon, Targeted Redaction, and the fact that Vanves research was one of the earliest clues for giardians having both light and dark within them is a little strange. Vance was specifically removed from Osiris' memory by someone, likely Savathun, and for a reason. I don't think Vances work with the seed of silver wings or the lighthouse is a coincidence. Those things have to play a much bigger role in the story, especially now that Savathun is getting involved again. Remember, there's a reason Savathun had to turn to us to get her memories back. We can wield both the light and the dark, hive guardians can't. There is something special about us, and I think Vance was the closest to figuring it out.

I miss Sagira. She was such a great character, and a great foil to Osiris - only for her to die off-screen in the dark. Wish I could replay previous expansions... you know, the ones I paid for...

Honestly, one of my favorite videos ever

The infinite forest was one of my favorite locales in Destiny, and I'd love to see more of it

Congrats on the 1 mil subs just noticed

What if something happened to Brother Vance in the infinite forrest that erased him from the timeline? And the reason Saint knows of him is because Saint is a paradox. Something happened to him thats making Osiris not remember him. Yeah, he really doesn't really care for the cult, but i think he'd remember Vance for the stuff he scolded him about.

The adds on KZread are becoming precise in their timing: Byf -the record of that moment reads as follows: Here are three tips to improve at raid shadow legends!

On the topic of Osiris, it really is up in the air of what his role, or fate, will be going forward. Well, as for his role, he is lightless now. But, it’s been mentioned in the writing, time and again, that his centuries of experience and knowledge is still a worthy asset to the City, Vanguard, and the Coalition as a whole. I find Osiris accumulating into an advisor/ambassador role to be fitting. Osiris would have the wisdom, experience, and knowledge to be a great negotiator for the Coalition when it comes to its alliance with Neomuna. Ikora, being his apprentice, has also followed suit on this matter. While Osiris collaborates with, and teaches Nimbus and the news, about the many things Neomuna had missed, or don’t know about, since the dark age, Ikora is communicating with Quinn to share knowledge and history to “bridge the gaps” of history that each civilization has lost since the Collapse. It makes sense why Savathun chose Osiris, despite no longer being a Guardian, he’s an excellent choice as a negotiator/mediator between the Coalition and it’s allies. For the Elksni, humanity has Saint to negotiate with Mithraks, House Light’s leader. For the Cabal we have Saladin as humanity’s representative on her War Council. For the Awoken, we have Crow, who does have a past with Mara and Petra, and for the Neomuni, we have Osiris, to aid Nimbus, negotiate with they’re people, and pass along his centuries of knowledge and experience to the young Cloudstrider. Though, if Osiris were to die during, before, or after Final Shape, I could see him become a spirit in the plane beyond the Traveler’s portal, guiding dead Guardians to this supposed afterlife. At least, that’s what some theorize it to be. Thanks for whoever took the time to actually read my two paragraphs worth of a comment.😅

I'm reminded of that one scene from "Galaxy Quest" where Guy asks everyone what his last name is to prove a point. 😆 Lol

On the brother Vance stasis thing-- to me, it seems like he was able to commune with the witness and the it approached him like it approached us at the end of Shadowkeep. Should be cool if he comes back

Regarding Osiris' echoes, Osiris has stated that Reflections and Echoes are different things. Reflections are manifestations of Osiris' Light, and are what he uses at Six Fronts. Echoes are 'reserved for Taken Kings. Better suited for traversing the Sundial because of what lies at its core.' (Maintenance Operations Log 30037). I also tend to think that the name of the gun 'Targeted Redaction' suggests a more ominous reason for Osiris forgetting, especially since in the Phobos Warden armour, Osiris tells Zavala that Vance has discovered a way to stop the Pyramid fleet. It seems strange that Osiris would forget something that vital, even in the midst of everything that has happened.

We love you Byf

Brother Vance! I haven't heard that name in a while, a true goober till his end

This is far more brutal than how's your sister. Mara has rez in her pocket dimension. Vance has been dedicated to Osiris and is well known enough that even Saint knows him. Osiris is the real MVP, not fiving a f*ck about some rando from the cult he never wanted.

Definitely of the mind that the Killed Copy of Vance was being contacted by the Entity of the Darkness getting ready to offer Salvation. I wonder if it couldn't tell Vance didn't have eyes.

Just thought of Bob Vance from refrigeration lol

I'm still hoping that we'll see him return

@Noblesix84

11 ай бұрын

Same. I missed all the people from the taken worlds, and Im bummed we cant even see them outside of whatever missions/cutscenes theyre in

@Kazuhira2249

11 ай бұрын

well he is alive until confirmed otherwise, if asher is alive sloane is alive theres no reason that vance would be dead

@Falconer5752

11 ай бұрын

@@Noblesix84 I'm hoping that before the final shape they'll bring them back at least as seasonal activities. The next season with Savathun could have Io and the last one could have Mercury

@ADIMIS

11 ай бұрын

might have a new vo. heard one of the reasons he was removed was one of the VOs passing. but that might be bunk

@ThyBigCheddar

11 ай бұрын

​@@ADIMIS Do you mean VA?

Osiris using the last teeny tiny bit of light to drop some mad solar 3.0 burns on Vance... thats a solar warlock for yah... xD

I was under the impression that the "copy" of brother vance was one of those dopplegangers the witness projects

Thank you for what you do. Your make this game fun.

I can only imagine saint doing like a spit take after osiris says "who?" LMAO

The secret codes in his tower lol

I always loved the snark and banter between Sagira and Osiris, it reminds me of Danny and Steve on the new Hawaii five-o.

Oh my forking branches! Brother Vance where art thou?!

Say what you want about Vance, he gave us the best Paul McCartney collab. I love that Hope for the future is canon

Being fair, we also don't know how many eons of existence Osiris has experienced since his last interaction with Vance. I was always under the impression that his time in the forest was vastly dilated.

Osiris' reflections and his echoes are two different things from what I undertstand. Or the device Vance used was a Vex attempt to recreate the light based power that Osiris was using. EDIT: Or, perhaps more likely even, the light based power Osiris is using is a light recreation of the Vex device.

I didn't know Osiris had some Light left to Scorch Vance...

"How's your sister?" Bro invented a whole new type of solar burn 😶

Third likelyhood, Osiris might not remember Vance anymore. Sharing head space with a hive god probably comes with some pretty serious side effects, and if I remember right, Osiris has talked about some memory loss since his revival. I never interpreted that bit as Osiris slighting Vance, and saw Saint's avoidance of the topic as trying to prevent Osiris from feeling frustrated at his memory issues.

I bet it’s a piece of the witness that Vance blinded and has trapped in the infinite forest which is probably how well learn about the witness past

Best version of hope for the future comes from Jillian Aversa btw, solid cover there

I can hear Byf going insane in this one.

I didn't see it as a burn at all. My theory is that this indicates that Savathun took any memories of Vance he had. As to why, I can't say for certain. My best guesses are 1) that Vance survived and has some important part to play or 2) because she wanted him to forget what Vance revealed to Osiris later in the Trials lore book. Edit: I'm probably making an assumption that Vance survived due to the fact that the other two characters (Asher and Sloane) that were "lost" in Season of Arrivals survived, so from a narrative perspective, he probably survived too lol

@S3Cs4uN8

11 ай бұрын

I sit with option 3: Vance was a nobody that Osiris never needed to remember.

Have fun at the expo!

I believe the implication is the doppelgänger Vance attacked is a manifestation of the Witness, like the one that talked to us in Shadowkeep. Vance went in to the Infinite Forest to lock it away from the Darkness's reach, and all those reflections (Echoes are for Taken Kings) of his flew forward into the Forest, while this Manifestation followed him in behind him. Whether Vance was able to keep the Manifestation from doing anything in the Forest remains to be seen, but I have hope for the guy. As for Osiris not knowing who Vance is, while its funny on a first read, given that they had met before and Vance was somewhat important in a few events, I wonder if there’s a deeper meaning to Osiris forgetting Vance, if he might be the ‘Targeted Redaction’ as others have said

19:15 How many forkin' branches we talking about here?

I am one of few guardians who can say they saw Sir Paul play “Hope for the Future” live, and…it was weird lol

Vance getting Ego’d out of existence.

Absolutely love your lore videos! Have you considered other games as well? I only ask because of Remnants recent popularity and my interest in learning more about the root, or a legendary realm walker called Ford or the history of the pan, who were locked in a civil war before the root invaded or something like that. Jus saying, I'd watch it!

Echos you say? Almost like we have a upcoming Episode next year called...Echos. Maybe the Vex may find a way to wield the power of nightmares or even something similar to it. Vex and Egregore have yet to be expanded upon, and I have a feeling that maybe there is more to Vance's story in the future.

I need to share this when bud started reading ch 2 postexlic “it read” and it instantly cut to an add that opened with “oh golly gosh”

The part that makes this all sad to me is that, the last interaction between Osiris and Vance that I can remember was Osiris asking Vance to forget about the cult and return to the City to have a family, a life. Only to end with Vance going into the Infinite Forest and Osiris ultimately "forgetting" about Vance...

I see the theories of the Vex or Savathun messing with Osiris's memory to make him forget Brother Vance, but this actually isn't the first time someone has forgotten him. I remember some end-of-activity lines from the old Contact mission in Season of Arrivals where Drifter brings up Brother Vance and Eris claims to have no clue who that is. Bro was STILL IN THE GAME and was completely forgotten by other characters. To be fair, I don't know if Eris ever met Vance, but Drifter changes the topic similar to Saint in the Targeted Redaction lore tab, which makes me think this is in part just a running gag of people forgetting who Vance is.

I think Vance himself might be the Targeted Redaction, he might have some information that would be valuable to us, but the forest may have wiped him from the timeline in a way that causes certain people to forget his existence.

So hope for the future is a running thing in D2? I remember hearing it playing in the Tangled Shore right before Forsaken got vaulted

Sounds like Vance met a Witness Doppler

The idea of Vance's "targeted redaction" from Osiris's memory (as some other commenters are saying) is an interesting take. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that Bungie hid some surprisingly deep lore behind a (objectively funny) throwaway joke. Remember the Devil's Ruin quest, where everyone was laughing at Shaxx's singing, only to later realize it was Savathun's Song? Vance's research clearly meant something, and we got no real 'payoff' from it besides Vance's message about the Seed of Silver Wings. We know that the Witness took the planets it did for very specific reasons. Mars had info on Nefele Stronghold, Titan had Ahsa... but we still don't know what the Witness wanted with Io and Mercury. Given Io's relationship to the Traveler and the Cradle, there's an easy motive there. But with Mercury, the only logical motive that the Witness had for scouring it is likely something to do with the Infinite Forest. Vance, in all likelihood, is tied up in this as well. We already have cases of the Witness's forces seeking to destroy crucial information (such as the Sol Divisive's goals at Ares Spire). It's not out of the question to think that Vance may very well have been "redacted" after learning something crucial within the Forest. It's by no means guaranteed, but it's certainly a possibility. Though, if nothing else, I can't believe that Bungie is making me spend brainpower on Brother Vance.

Osiris peddled in as much vex knowledge as the future war cult did. There must’ve been some strong connection there.

while yes, vance has been memed on similarly before to this, specifically in Prophecy, with Drifter talking about him to Eris, a theory I have is that since Brother Vance got lost in the Infinite Forest, it's possible that he might literally have been removed from the timestream, which is something we know Vex have the power to do. The only reason Saint-14 remembers is because he is a Guardian and causal timestream erasure wouldn't affect him. Osiris is no longer a Guardian.

Cold and sharp and eyes makes me think of a vex

I wonder what brothers Vances reaction to Osiris losing his light could be

@varlak9061

5 ай бұрын

"karma bitch" -brother vance

I think it'd be cool if we got Vance as a side or even main villain.

So I want to lay down my speculation on Osiris' power. The glowing holograms are made of light and each one is a variable of Osiris himself and the choices he makes. The cool thing is that i think it works like quantum mechanics where he is entangled with the variables and simultaneously simulates the possibilities. Thats why they can persist and also be real options to follow.

RIP Homie vance

I know that this could be bungies way of saying brother Vance isn’t coming back. But having him come back as a minor seasonal villain who’s lost all faith in Osiris would be pretty cool

It didn’t occur to me until now that some people don’t know who Brother Vance was

Brother Vance is such an underrated character, tbh. Was he a bit of an oddball? Sure. But also badass af! Season of Arrivals absolutely elevated him as a character. As for the new lore, I think there is some meddling going on. As another commenter said, the "targeted redaction", very specific!

I had a stroke trying to read the title

One thing youve got to say about the Cult of Osiris, they've got balls. These guys are lightless (most of them) and yet theyre going as far as Mercury. Highly, highly dangerous.

Kinda late a bit to this, but I too think the lack of any memory of Vance might be more serious, but I'd guess it's just the play on the meme with the name of the weapon as well, though this might be a clue to what could come next. I also think that the chimes and humms Vance was studying might have more importance later down the line, like Osiris instantly snapped at Vance when he told him, so that could mean it's more than just "don't mess with vex tech you fool". For what the creature Vance blinded in the Forest could be, I wouldn't say a vex unit, those are mechanical, and I wouldn't say the singular optical part on them would be squishy, and if I remember correctly, Vance was glad about that, because whatever that thing was, it still needed eyes to see, but he didn't, and a vex unit can still come at you without a head, so one more point against the creature being a vex. The stasis theory might be correct, but how could've Vance come in contact with a paracausal force inside a vex prediction engine, let alone use it without serious backfire? And those who use stasis aren't just "normal" humans, so I doubt Vance could've discover stasis, even if the reason for him to attack the doppegänger was to assume control over the echoes and the simulations, and stasis is about control.

HOW DID VANCE SEE HIM??? 14:26

I cackled like a hyena when i first read that lore. Now though, given the context and the name "Targeted Redaction" makes me wonder if theres something darker at play around Brother Vance. His return could give us knowledge of what the vex may do post Final Shape

Byf how much for you to do a cover of hope for the future?

When we getting a lore video on the speaker? Is there really anything to them? Feels like a dead end character

I wasn’t sure if anyone was going to even talk about the mention of Vance lol.