Thank you, gentlemen.

I appreciate you both. Good intelligent conversation. Thank you!

Fantastic combination ! I hope both of you make more joined videos !!!!!

This conversation just got better and better. Thank you gents some exceptional insights. 🌷🌷🌷

I love this combo - 🎉❤

Really excellent collab thank you❤

I love how you guys were talking about love songs. one of the ways I really help progress my healing was when I realized, as I was belting out a love song at high volume while driving, that *I* really needed to hear those words for myself! and so I started singing TO ME. I know it sounds corny, but it was super healing and I since have a playlist called "Love songs to myself"! creating a good, secure and loving relationship with myself has been instrumental in healing from cPTSD (and narcissistic/insecurely attached relationships)

@smoly37

12 күн бұрын

That's good to hear girl. Or dude. Through your comment I realize, that I do that ALL the time, but never looked at it that way...I always was a complete music head, ever since I can remember.

@sage9836

7 күн бұрын

Going to DO this! I also got tuned into a major stream of self love that is raising people up. I think we are moving into something higher. Now people who are crummy disappoint me but do not devastate me. Like, something that would tear me up in the past is now like - oh, this person is being dumb so bye for now because I am going to do/think about something I like better.

You two are amazing. Thank you so much xx

I need to listen to this every day...

I guess university/schools are now a business and it's about having such great success rates which then bring in more pupils = more money, If you're not selling a product you are the product.... This therapist sounds like a really great guy, great episode rich.

Great discussion, agree with Darren about that self esteem... that's why it's super important that people tell people the truth.

OMG this is like when Elton John brought George Micheal out on stage.

@pamelariley6694

13 күн бұрын

Yep !

@JonJCairns

13 күн бұрын

that was Humanities finest hour 👍 only downhill now

@dinocarosi4303

13 күн бұрын

I can definitely picture Richard in full 'Captain Fantastic' regalia for some strange reason...

@dougdeepdown

13 күн бұрын

Not Backstage I hope.

@Kbologna

13 күн бұрын

Oh my gosh! Grannon is gay😂😂😂

Thank you for saying that we need to focus on things that help. I hate reliving the pain of 31 year of husbands and a child who destroyed me by their narcissistic personalities. I want to heal.

Thankyou both🙏

Darren Magee, I have been a sub to your channel for a long time. Thank you for having this chat with the amazing Richard Grannon. I hope it happens again.

I did not expect this collab, but it was so nice just to watch them get on and share good humor in between the more serious bits. :)

You guys are hitting the nail on the head conversations like this are very useful. That's what i naturally did after my time in the education system finally came to a close 13 years ago it had to, and my stance since then has been that this is going to be a lot more about me, my needs, and what i want now no exceptions and if someone can't give it me then i'm having none of that, even i don't really know what i want lol how could i? but whenever i do it will be about that. I won't be told no anymore or that everything i think, feel, and how i so much as perceive things is wrong and rubbish if it doesn't agree with the status quo or someone else's biases and perceptions you have no right. The only message you get is that who you are means nothing at all which i very much internalized sadly and that was the intention. All i know though is I'm not and never have been just another brick in the wall😏and i'm not always "asking for too much" by asking for even the smallest need to be validated and fulfilled. Sadly it's so much harder to move on from it all than just saying it because it happened for years, they're still very much in there screwing things up and i still feel this urge my needs should be fulfilled by somebody else and by people who call themselves teachers who think they should get instant respect from everybody even when they do nothing to earn it. I'll be honest with myself about that even when i don't want to because it sucks, and even 13 years after i've left i still feel like i want to crawl back into that narcissistic cesspool 😖even if i couldn't possibly do so i'm too traumatized which thankfully is stopping me. And even after proving to myself i can learn anything i want to it's not enough, and none of that was ever enough for me i was unsupported and unchallenged when i wasn't even allowed to think and still am honestly, once i get ahold of my faculties i just take things as a challenge lol i will find a way i promise, the education system wants none of that. This is the biggest source of my emotional flashbacks is what happened to me with all that all warped together because they knew exactly where to hit me, what to make me feel, and how to do it. Although i can fulfill my own needs i've always been more independent than others and i can look after myself which is the crazy part, but i think it's what's keeping me stuck and from moving anywhere in my life just frozen at square one they've got me exactly where they want. I don't think my parents have ever helped because they do everything for me and brother but are the type to then complain they get no help lol but still insist on doing things and won't let us help and then get all mad if we try, even if they wish they had help lol so conflicted. Collusion yes you're right about people with NPD they certainly always need validation and seek to use collusion against people which is all i've ever been through deceitful "agreements" making it seem i agreed to any of that when i didn't whatsoever especially when i was too young to understand what i was apparently "agreeing to"🤧but apparently just being there is the agreement you can imagine the anger, betrayal, hurt, hate, and trauma i feel about that. Wiki says "Collusion is not always considered illegal." well it should be. They made promises and made it seem to me and everybody else they would look after our needs but they can't and didn't, and just misled and lied without ever teaching us how to look after our own needs and how to have our own thoughts, mind, consecutive thinking, and initiative or critical thinking skills even if they're always saying that's what they're teaching, well if that was the case i wouldn't have had to learn about it and what it means years later by myself. Indeed it's the promises i'm grieving but i think also that tiny part of myself, that innocence they still chipped away, and definitely my youth nevertheless those experiences still changed me. Why is it preferable to keep things this way? money and power isn't a valid answer we want real change that benefits all it should never even be a thing that happens because it's effecting generations of people it's a sin against our civilization, but it never comes. At age 34 now i see none of it makes sense because it's not built to do so it's not built for us but the accumulation of wealth and power. Why is your needs more important than anyone else's? we should all get the same no exceptions. So i just decided screw it my needs come first after all that and i do the best i can, it's needed to become a bit more selfish in this way and it's a good way to test whether someone is going to live up to their promises and not just saying things when they don't produce what they promise. I just wish we didn't have to learn about anything the hard and traumatizing way because we don't not always anyway some things we inevitably have to but not everything. Okay so you want a song a good one to describe all this is "promises in the dark" by pat benatar now i truly get what this song means listening back to it. Social media sites you can do without them we don't need them i too got sucked in from the the age of 14 at least since myspace the first social media site, until it got too unsafe in the last few years and people who're supposed to protect us start taking advantage of it, trust me you will eventually land yourself into a bad situation it will happen no matter how much you think you can avert it or change how you do things because crazy people on it. As you said it's just about selling yourself as a commodity however even people who have a social media for their business have too many problems on it from people if it's not the cancel culture it's being hacked into, losing all their contacts they probably should have backed up but didn't because we're led into a false sense of safety, don't wait until something bad happens like i did it's not great. I would say it's greatly exhabberted mental health conditions because people are inside talking to nobody instead of outside meeting real people which at this point we'd like to go back to please, but it isn't unboundaried since it got far too unsafe i usually don't share this many details anywhere else if not i'm totally anonymous everywhere with none of the profiles filled in on anything i am on that has that feature, they don't even know i'm female cos again not safe to advertise that, i feel so much better knowing i have nothing on other social media sites though because there's no possibility something could happen.

Narcissists attempts to "deskill" intelligence is so real. Narcissists want to consume you in every way.🤯💤

I recall psychiatrist Paul Conti mentioned on Lex Fridman recently that among all different aspects and variants of mental health conditions, narcissism isn't that common in relation to everything else. But in terms of the damage and problems that a particular condition causes, narcissism represents the majority.

Very enjoyable and informative - Thank you gentlemen. It would be lovely to see you both do it again in the future.

It's safe to go meet people at the bars again! The lazy narcissists prefer the internet.

Great conversation between two great blokes....thanks

True what Darren says - without knowing why Then you get a list of symptoms of narcissism and that toxic person you struggle with meets the criteria! It's like a lightbulb goes off in your head

45:50 This “feeling of envy” that Facebook artificially grew, encouraged, manufactured… is why I quit using it 10 years ago. No FB no Twitter

I'm learning a lot from the interactions with other creators. I do wish Mr. Maghee's mic was closer as he is soft-spoken, but is very wise.

Agree with Darren on the self-esteem topic. I've just finished the book WILLPOWER by Roy F. Baumeister & John Tierney - interesting research on self-control from different angles. The book is a decade old, but somehow managed to foresee the direction in which the society was marching. So the author criticized the self-esteem approach in raising kids and therapy which leads only to narcissism, versus implementing and training discipline and self-control which will inevitably lead to higher self-esteem, but in this case for all the right reasons. Great discussion, as always. All the best.

So absolutely true! I am grieving my youth of spending 2 decades with the narc. It is devastating. How do you move on?

@schrottdrossel9902

10 күн бұрын

It's only been 9 years for me, but I've wasted my 20s and would have a different life without it. But I think that's the point. I really like who I am now and as bad as those experiences were, they formed the person I am today. Without hitting rock bottom I might not have made the mental progress I did. So while I wish it wouldn't have happened, in hindsight it led to a very positive outcome. Don't get me wrong, it sucks, I grieved a lot and still do sometimes and I do think that's important. But for our future it's necessary to look at the positive sides. The fact that we let ourselves get treated like shit for such a long time means that we're psychologically deficient in some way. Realizing this opens the door for positive change, so we can work on ourselves to not let it happen again. I really hope you do or will feel the same about yourself as I do. Wishing you the best :)

I appreciate Mr. MaGee's attitude toward therapy. I am trying to find my confidence again. The trouble comes with panic setting in at unexpected moments. It's the strangest thing because sometimes around certain people I have almost an extraversion and around others a deep insecurity. I thought once it was about authority but it's not, it's a quality of people I can😮't easily predict but when I sense it I become stupidly tongue-tied. At my age, that just absolutely should not be there anymore. I can't explain what the quality is but maybe it's someone who pretends not to be judging but is. I would be much More confident if they would just be honest in their assessment or intention toward me. Much more confident because I would know it wasn't me who kept messing something up while they were slowly trying hard to like me. I think it's the flashback of seeing a quality in someone that reminds me of a time I was duped (the many times) and found out a person that pretended to really adore me actually couldn't stand me. And preferred it that way because then they could be a snake in secret. That is so hard to overcome when your judgement of a person has been so drastically wrong. Or someone you thought was literally your family suddenly starts not just being a little nasty or upset about a misunderstanding, but sadistic. It's unreal that someone can have more than one or two sadists in their life. I know that sounds delusional and paranoid, but it isn't , and I have had actual delusions, so I know the difference. Anyway, thank you for another fantastic interview. Again, useful isn't the word, these kind of insightful, thoughtful, calming talks are much more than just useful, they're not utilitarian, they are transforming many times. Thanks, it was great. ❤

So funny you mentioned Cary Grant, about the time you had put this video on, I had North By Northwest pop into my head as I was walking home 😎👍

Loved this Guys....thanks❤❤❤

Wow, my heroes !!!!!

I believe the movie Darren alluded to is The Social Dilemma. It's still on Netflix and well worth a watch.

I think there is more awareness, thanks to U-Tube etc., of narrc-behavor - how to recognize and cope - i know because thats my experience. Richard has been instrumental in my recognizing signs to look for and to develop coping mechanisms. I can truly say "Thank you, Richard" for ur videos. I can't begin to say how helpful they have been and continue to be, as a resource to turn to for advice and wise words.

I think human beings want answers or to understand why things don’t make sense because we have been living in the dark for so long . We are getting answers from all directions now . We should be gentle with ourselves. Knowledge is power

@Harteo3917

12 күн бұрын

It's more we're just a naturally very curious and adventurous species, it's why we have shows like star trek and stargate "to boldly go where no man has gone before", or the concept of traveling through a gated wormhole on dangerous but interesting adventures to other planets meeting different cultures, which i'm totally fascinated by. Hhmmrum please take me with you! i want to go through the shiny wormhole too! and meet very special cultures! jack!. I think all the challenges we face somehow just keeps challenging us to grow and evolve, although we shouldn't have to learn things through so much trauma either we don't need to at all.

Love what Darren said here, '' you are grieving the lie'', although I think it can be a lot more complicated than that. Dating over the internet, ? ,I haven't even got a social media account , yet , ? Why do people sell themselves as products ? This is what we have come to in society , it is f'd up ! Relate to Richard in what he said about his partners projection onto him,and his partner wanting to break him, it is so unhealthy, it is stereotyping. We are all stereotyped. PS , spot on what Darren said about the workplace. De- skilling , nobody talks about this ! Modern society is about taring others down, generally speaking.

So a relationship with a narcissist is like buyers remorse?😂

@Kbologna

13 күн бұрын

@@Hi-Phi 1 million times worse 🤮🤢

I’ve been through a toxic relationship recently not until I noticed my partner making late night calls in the sitting room, changed her phone password to face recognition. Started giving the silent treatment as soon as I questioned her actions. I got a clone copy of her messenger apps and found lots of activities going on backdoor,she wasn’t transparent and accountable all these years.

Thank you that was really helpful.😊

Perfect!!! 😊

I'm experiencing so many people in Canada where I live, playing the victim with both the narcisist and codependant in relationships trapped in a sense of entitlement. Validation of this egoic identity and this sense of entitlement stay trapped and stuck with social media help websites. Could it be, mothers giving a subjective view and fathers giving an objective view of the same issue with most children stuck with a mostly a subjective view of understanding of life. Without objective thinking you get a generation of complaining children not able to objectively seeing a way out. I honestly see a problem of child abuse in Canada. A life coach online explains this as "smothering mother syndrome" happening, keeping their children subjectively stuck and still living at home in their 30's. Objective and subjective gives children their individual independent identity needed to deal with life issues is missing in a lot of Canadian children today.

You would not believe the online audio forum bpd and narc led groups stories Ive have and heard. Discord clubhouse etc

Haya Darren!

Darren is the new Sam🎉

Its the inside that matters and your doing great

The obsession with understanding the narcissist keeps a person stuck in the intellectual mind where victimhood lives.

Some men do that to women - belittle and annoy you, then try to attract you. I had a more senior colleague who was vile to me, then at the Christmas party he sat me down and said he’d always been attracted to me and would I want to go out for a drink. I laughed my head off and told him I thought he hated me - he almost got me sacked! No way.

Ooh Richard..."maybe we can do it again sometime" lol... Chalk and Cheese therapists meet.

The Social Dilemma is the name of the Netflix documentary you are thinking of Darren?

@DarrenFMagee

13 күн бұрын

That's the one thank you so much 👍

So there was a prior term for “Karens”?Enforcing sadists. Interesting.

@Harteo3917

12 күн бұрын

Karen's was started by a video done by an actor that previously acted on the tv show supernatural as ash, but maybe he shouldn't have made that because of what he started. He did a spate of videos making up silly characters but it just created a major stereotype. I have no idea how people just went with it or how it blew up but it certainly wasn't the supernatural fandom who went into full on crisis mode before the term got so popular.

Selfish, self and others rejection wrapped in alluring packaging, from points of pain and fear. It's all very morbid and a bit too common. Maybe the answer is learning to be somewhat selfless while setting healthy boundaries. Very interesting topic concerning sadistic behavior patterns, ironically, I have seen many of this type in problem solving positions. Descaling, ah yes, I experienced this alot in the military. *Ownership *Resilience

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

Excellent conversation. Very informative. Thank you gentlemen, for your time and thoughts. 🥷❤️💪🔥☯️🖖🦋

The Infantilization of young adults followed by the bandaid rip at 18 is very cruel. I know technically the brain is still developing in young people into their twenties, but they still need to be prepared for the roughness of the world. I went to catholic state school but did not experience the everyone gets a prize thing. Maybe that came later?

@zdravin4448

13 күн бұрын

Yes! People are coddled so hard and so long that they literally aren't built to handle life. I'm 32, my brothers 21, I have constantly been having to ground him back to reality. This soliphism is a scourge of the west.

@SRPA476

13 күн бұрын

At least he has you. 👍😊 There's a lot of blaming the younger generations, but they inherited this horrible, broken system and will struggle for any kind of social mobility. I get why they're the anxiety generation. It's like Mario world but there's no 1up mushrooms and no princess to rescue. Just an endless loop of freaky obstacles and humiliation. 🫨 @@zdravin4448

@smoly37

13 күн бұрын

They recently discovered, that the developement of the human brain is not finished at 21. It takes much longer than was originally thought: somewhere between 25 and 30!! I don't understand your reference to the "band aid rip" at 18. Most young people stay with their parents nowadays, because there's a severe housing shortage. Especially when they go to university to study.(in Holland) I'm from a different generation, but I also lived with my parents until I was 23. And overall, people that have good relationships with their parents, stay in touch as often as they can or even try to get a house near enough to visit their family regularly.

@SRPA476

13 күн бұрын

I felt the bandaid rip at 16! I was expected to find work, socialize as an adult, etc, and go to college to compete for a place at uni. Not too long before that I was playing with dolls! 😂 Barbie did not prepare me for the horrors of adolescence. I just wish someone could have warned me about what was coming. Yikes.

@Harteo3917

12 күн бұрын

Infantilization personally never helped me it's the worst i hate it so bad because you're always treated like you're 5 years old it's been one of the things that has contributed to my problems and they do it to us everywhere even at the bank even how things work it's like somehow we can't possibly be capable of thinking more maturely or intelligently. @smoly37 I think i pretty much sensed and figured that out on my own because as soon as i hit the age of 28 i was suddenly starting to understand everything like much more complex concepts and emotions heck suddenly i could understand mathematics out of nowhere. I reckon that's why we used to only see older gentlemen as the mathematicians and physicists. Before that i had no idea where i was or what i was doing because obviously biologically i couldn't understand more complex emotions and concepts. What really messes you up is everyone expecting you to be able to understand things the way an adult can if not on purpose the struggle is immense.

Do you keep that same lying person or individual... Away from other people, right?? That's the logic. You kill the delusions.

EXCUSE ME ,PERSONAL

Mark who? I want to look up the interview

@psychicconsultant453

2 күн бұрын

Mark Vicente

I have reason to believe a dangerous person recorded me in the privacy of my home, and then shared my words, which violates a number of CA laws. What type of diagnosis does this sort of thing.... With the intent of giving rise to responsive reactive response.

@Kbologna

13 күн бұрын

@@Tiredofliarsandthieves imo…psychopath

What do you think of ruminating as an inner survival strategy? As in your inner trying to get it through to you that you are living a shit show and you need to get out. Playing it over and over until you hopefully get the message at some point.