The biggest problems are quality and price, in that order. Given the behavior and attitude of the industry over the past several years, I don't think it can, nor should, be saved.

Kinda hard to sell a lot of books at $4 or $5 a pop if no one wants to read them.

@theragoooverlord5021

2 ай бұрын

In Australia it's $10 for those.

@jbbrolic

2 ай бұрын

It's hard to sell them at $5 a pop if people DO want to read them.

@guardiansoulblade2673

2 ай бұрын

@@jbbrolicAll it takes to pirate comics and manga is a Google search and manga is still winning the sales war despite online piracy.

How about them banning Shane Davis, John Malin and EVS from a comic convention because they are butt hurt they have built a business model and fan best that works and want to buy their comics! Talk about committing comic book suicide because their ideology is more important than saving their industry!

@InfamyOrDeath-__-

2 ай бұрын

Really? Wow, that’s amazing, goes to show you how corrupt these organisations are.

@Travis87-

2 ай бұрын

EVS is a proven misogynistic bigoted hateful person… he bought a carol danvers figure just to cut it up on video. He literally factually said he wished a pedo would go after a well known artist’s kids and similar

You're right about the condition and location of a comic shop having little to no impact on the number of customers, Wes. I live near Brisbane in Australia, and we never had a lot of comic book shops, but I remember one, Comic Etc, and its entrance was a staircase squeezed between two other shops and going down to a basement. It was dimly lit, had a strange, musty smell, and was always full of customers. People didn't care about the look or feel of the shop, they cared about the look and feel of the comic books on the shelves. I suspect they still do and that is why the industry is imploding; the creatives stopped caring about the look and feel of their comics.

@philipebbrell2793

2 ай бұрын

I think I was there in 87.

These people that are in the command of the Big 2 are just too stubborn and too arrogant to admit that the entire industry are in troubles. Meanwhile is us old readers that are watching the slow and painful death of the comics right now. So sad.

It's so bad with these hive mind fools. I got banned off of a comic book subreddit by simply posting screenshots of tom king wonderwoman and a recent ASM . Didn't call out the writers by name. I merely posted the panel shots , and stated "this is what's wrong with current comic books, and why sales are going down". I purposefully kept my post clean, and didn't mention King or Wells by name. I was banned within 15 minutes for violating community rules. These people are a club, and will not listen to any critique, no matter how benign.

@jonathansoko1085

2 ай бұрын

You can't question the quality of comics you should know that. Even at my lcs when the regulars are in on Wednesday or Thursday, if I talk about how shit this stuff is I get shunned. Literally. It's actually insane. Specifically I remember talking about the fire and ice book and how bad it was, these guys in the shop acted liked I was out of my mind..I offered to BUY A COPY for everyone in the shop and we read it together and discuss, I was refused and told later to never do that again and to respect others. Very ironic and strange to say the least.

@cancelme4200

2 ай бұрын

@jonathansoko1085 it's bizarre. Honestly. I heard an Indian guy in my lcs complain about the woke content, and how it was hurting the quality of the books. It's like it goes in one ear out the other, and they come up with any excuse why it isn't so. I emailed a message to the mods (I understand it wasn't going to be considered evenly), and just stated how can ypu not allow constructive criticism that is respectful, from people who ACTUALLY PURCHASE the books they're talking about. Even being respectful, and the only response is something like a ban, how will things change? These people are children.

@nerdrock8087

2 ай бұрын

Some people are happy to go down with the ship, and don't understand why we bailed out

@theintersectionalalliance9088

2 ай бұрын

They are just ideologically captured and scared.

@sodacan1415

2 ай бұрын

what do you expect from redditors? that site is an echo chamber of far left looney tunes with power tripping mods. same as leagueofcomicgeeks.

Maybe we just need more gays

@cancelme4200

2 ай бұрын

It's like they sit there and think, " I think our issue to lowering sales over the last ten years, is to quadruple down on the messages we've been putting out. The customers haven't been getting ENOUGH gay pandering. They obviously want more". Its bizarre, tbh.

@jonnjones8263

2 ай бұрын

🤣

@--Sama-

2 ай бұрын

And more ugly characters talking about their race or the oppressive patriarchy of incels. I'm sure that will improve the sales. Because customers don't want to have fun adventures, but to be insulted, lectured and blamed of everything wrong with society.

@mysterymac38

2 ай бұрын

I think there are still a few cisgender heroes out there we can f up.

@dakotawolf1027

2 ай бұрын

Seriously on all of this. I just dropped Moon Knight because it was quality but then they got rid of Marc Specter.

The reason why comics aren’t thriving is because you got the same people running the business day in and day out

@Leadeshipcoach

2 ай бұрын

Boom!👍

@maxmazzotti6651

2 ай бұрын

I thought that would be a good thing. But we need more people like the old guard

@InfamyOrDeath-__-

2 ай бұрын

Yea, and it will never improve so long as all those people are in charge.

@leadingauctions8440

2 ай бұрын

If you had skilled and capable people running things day in and day out that would be a wonderful thing.

Scary ass Comicpro behavior has leaked into retailers and they continue to gatekeep those retailers going against their propaganda.

@heroineburgh

2 ай бұрын

I think you may be confusing the term "comics pro" (a professional in the comics industry, such as editor, writer or artist) with "ComicsPro" (the organization of comic shop retailers). It's probably in retrospect an unfortunate name they chose for the organization due to the association the lowercase version of the term now has with certain Cancel Pigs. The reason why I say there may be some confusion is because I was at ComicsPro (the conference) for the past two years. Yes, there was a "woke" contingent, but it was only about 10%. You could usually tell by the hairstyle. The rest were, as the report said, average middle-aged white guys approx 35-65 and sometimes their wives. They don't have an agenda other their love of comics and their goal to sell as many as possible. Please note that there are about 1500 comic shop retailers in North America, and that only about 120 attended the conference - those being the ones willing to pay the hefty fee to be part of the organization. So it might be a rather skewed sample, if it's representative at all. And even the ones who attended - they're not just going to start spontaneously chanting "Big 2 Sucks! Big 2 Sucks!". They're attending the event to establish or strengthen business relationships and to eat the food, not to foment rebellion. Outspoken retailers like Comic Book Palace (who carry our book) and Coliseum of Comics (who turned us down) can complain all they want, but unless they are willing to organize a considerably large movement against the Big 2, everyone's just going to continue what they're doing because the retailers need the huge display racks of new Marvel and DC in their stores. If they don't have those, people will walk in, look at a bunch of indie books they've never heard of, exclaim "I never heard of any of these" and then walk out unless the clerk behind the counter is swift enough to make some solid recommendations. And that's not a formula for a successful store. Comicsgate is an anomaly (albeit a welcome one) because it coalesced as an alternative around a handful of charismatic well-spoken figures who brought more and more like them under their wing. Unless there is someone equally charismatic and well-spoken to lead the charge for a comic shop revolt, which seems highly unlikely, they'll just continue to knuckle under to whatever the Big 2 dish out, and either sell a whole lot of Funko Pops and Pokemon cards to make up the difference, or close up shop. As I've said in other comments, the fact that more than 250 comic shops in North America were at least able to buy a starter pack of our issues (9 units) shows that there are still a whole bunch of shop owners who still believe in the independent spirit of comics creation. And most of them were the typical middle-aged white guys (not a whole lot of woke shop owners liked our comic depicting diverse women who still look sexy). We've seen a handful of our outlets close in the past 3-4 years (the latest is about to be Cosmic in Belleville, IL) but most are still hanging on. We hope they'll do so as long as they can, by whatever means they see fit. Comicons aren't going anywhere, either.

@rammisalami

2 ай бұрын

@@heroineburgh 8 percent huh? Maybe if they stop gatekeeping and holding the meetings at unnecessarily expensive venues with over priced catering then everyone could afford to participate. Or you could just do it over zoom. Seems counterintuitive to base business operations on less than ten percent feedback regardless. I appreciate the lengthy explanation though. Well written comics still have longevity whereas cover schemes have been exposed as predatory and overall a hinderance to getting publishers focused on what really matters…telling stories people are excited to buy. Not that woke stuff you are talking about. And it’s Wes’ prerogative to use that term but I don’t because people automatically write off any criticism I have when they see that buzzword. Which is why in none of comments you will find it. Unless it’s me bitching at Wes to stop giving people an excuse to ignore him by saying woke.

@SMARTASS826

2 ай бұрын

What is your book?

@rammisalami

2 ай бұрын

@@SMARTASS826 favorite? Or like what I’m currently working on?

@heroineburgh

2 ай бұрын

@@rammisalami I don't disagree about the expensive thing. The main reason they did it in Pittsburgh for two years, though, is because the costs are actually rather cheap compared to bigger cities on the coasts. I wish they could keep in here, but they have a policy of never doing it more than two years running in the same city. I don't agree that Zoom is a better idea for a major meeting like this, but smaller gathering throughout the year would make sense online, yes. As for woke, when something is woke (i.e. driven by intersectionalist ideology which seeks to destroy Western values) I'll say so, thanks.

As long as the comic "professionals" continue to see comics as a way to get their political messages out or as just a stepping stone to Hollywood we will never see improvements.

@jithianlaurent6490

2 ай бұрын

That's working out real well for them. Both comics and Hollywood are broken. All the prestige is gone.

Not listening to your customers is insanity. You can't expect people to pay for things that they don't want. It's like trying to sell Jazz to Death Metal fans. If they don't change, the mainstream comics business is doomed. Price is also a factor given that we never know what to expect given the quality of a comic from the big two. I started reading comics when they were twelve cents a piece and have been primarily a trade waiter of late because I don't know what to expect from issue to issue.

@LanceMartin-gn3fi

2 ай бұрын

I recently quit collecting again. I had bought some some issues based on covers alone and that was a mistake because the interior art/story didn't match the quality of the cover.

The inflation since 2019 had pretty much made all of these numbers way worse than they spin it

The three biggest favtors are: 1. Price 2. Accessibility 3. Quality Even if the comics were GOOD, people can't afford them. And if they can, most people dont have comic books available in their area.

Mrs.Voorhees looks to be alive and well. Denial has to be great place for this woman, we all should try it sometime.

Comics are the easiest luxury to cut out especially you’re not getting anything worth your time at such a high price. Maybe they should put back advertisements into their books as well.

@brucebezold2714

2 ай бұрын

Advertisers want to be seen. If comics don't sell no one will see the advertisers

Hey guys. I was reading this dragon ball Super fanfic about Goku and Marcarita falling in love. And can I say: it’s better than mcu she-hulk and Captain Marvel.

@vash9760

2 ай бұрын

@DarthDread-oh2ne LOL that is really random, I had to look up who the other character was.

@DarthDread-oh2ne

2 ай бұрын

Yeah. I did the same- my immediate thought was: Well, she looks like Harley Quinn.

@sodacan1415

2 ай бұрын

@@DarthDread-oh2ne she was inspired by harley I believe.

Comics are to expensive. They aren't sold in normal shops anymore (UK) where is the next generation coming from?

@cancelme4200

2 ай бұрын

They are definatley too expensive. Every issue should be what was considered a "Giant Size" back in the day, minimum 64 pages. The bang for your buck, so to speak, isn't there. Especially considering most series are trash.

@teastrainer3604

2 ай бұрын

I said that on a message board ten years ago but everybody disagreed with me. I wanted the companies to go back to using newsprint for the floppies and to save the higher-quality paper for the TPBs. But back then the snob appeal of fancy paper and high prices was too strong. I think now the prices are so high that people might agree with me.

@cancelme4200

2 ай бұрын

@teastrainer3604 the only issue I'd have with that is the ink fade on that kind of paper. I'm not sure how well these books will hold up in 40-50 years. I go back and read a lot of back issues, and sometimes I have a hard time reading the page because the ink fade. I'm sure it's just an issue with me that I hate, but that would be my only concern. I just think books need to be longer. But, then the quality hasn't been great for most books, it's like do you really want longer books, lol.

@Whalewraith

2 ай бұрын

@@cancelme4200 you are collecting dust mate. Unless you live in the right climate or take your collection very seriously those newsprint books might outlast you by 10 minutes. My dad kept newspapers when something of historical significance happened I inherited them. A while back I was going through they were just crumbling as I tried to turn the pages.

@teastrainer3604

2 ай бұрын

@@cancelme4200 That's what the TPBs are for.

I go to a few shows a year, and it seems like most people (myself included) are happier to buy 30 and 40 year old issues than new stuff. It's sad, really. I remember counting the days till new comic book day back in the 90's. I was buying probably 8 or 10 titles monthly and loved them all. Now I swing by the shop once every few months to see if there's anything I might be interested in. I almost always leave empty handed. The kid in me who loves Superman, Shazam and the Rest of DC and Marvel is sad for all the kids who never will.

Wow. That comic pro survey leaving those two factors out says so much.

if no one is willing to admit it, how can we consider these peoples who try to make us believe otherwise? - this is good cause sooner or later there should be an independent one as well...

I wish that spinner racks in non comic shops would come back. Black and white newsprint versions of the books for $2 and if you want the premium version you can go to your LCS. New readers are key for the business and the art and being able to grab a cheap issue while picking up something from the corner store would be great.

07:15 that’s one my 2 lcs here in Austin. It’s a nice family friendly store with around 30-40% focus on comics, no back issues, a 10x20’ wall of funkos behind the cameraman taking the picture. It’s a very big space, maybe 40x100’. One half of the store is dedicated to tabletop games. I’m glad they’re staying in business but there’s not a huge focus on comics

Six bucks for an issue that takes seven minutes to read (providing you stop to make a sandwich halfway through). And why would l buy something from a company that despises my values and support? Screw them. Fun while it lasted.

I stopped buy comics because I realised I just didn’t care anymore. I know that’s just anecdotal, but I feel I’m not the only one.

I had three favorite characters. Azrael, Alan Scott green lantern, and the sentry. They stopped publishing one, they made one gay after he was married for years, and they made another one a gay black woman. I stopped buying the books. I have no interest in that garbage.

No employees - After attending ComicsPro, there are a lot of retailers who are husband/wife teams. Or parent/kid teams.

@heroineburgh

2 ай бұрын

Definitely lots of family units for sure. I was there too (2023 and 2024) - did we meet?

@lilformersmatt

2 ай бұрын

@@heroineburgh Maybe! did you do the publisher roundtable this year? I'm director of publishing at UDON.

@heroineburgh

2 ай бұрын

@@lilformersmatt No, we didn't do the roundtables. We (the four members of Comicsburgh, plus actress Bridget) set up our booth on Thursday (right next to Boom and across from Tim Fling/David Doub) and interacted with the shop owners. I added six new shops to our total of over 250. On Friday we ate food, attended presentations, and hung out in the New Dimension penthouse lounge. On Saturday, I went by myself on the bus for the comic shop tour and set next to Jen King the whole time. That was actually our second year at the event in Pittsburgh. You guys publish Capcom books and anime/manga stuff, right?

@lilformersmatt

2 ай бұрын

@@heroineburgh Ah, got it, didn't understand you were a publisher. I got there late Thursday, and did different things Friday. And yep, comic-wise we are know for our Capcom comics. Otherwise we do manga and art books, usually based on video games or anime.

@heroineburgh

2 ай бұрын

@@lilformersmatt Yes, we are part of a group of four publishers in Pittsburgh. We're called Comicsburgh. Three of them use the name for Diamond Distribution (I go direct instead). All four of us use it to collaborate and share expenses at Comicons. We were all able to participate in both Pgh ComicsPro events thanks to the gracioucsness of organizer Marco, and our regional New Dimension Comics chain. We are also very friendly with new ComicsPro president Joe, and hope to keep in touch with the conference wherever it lands next!

West, for the past 5 years I’ve been looking at interviews with comic pros, KZreadrs, marvel/DC shills talking with other KZreadrs or guest about comics on their channels, Ive watch videos with comic book shop owners. They all talk about comics. and every single time the subject of quality comes up, they never never talk about the quality of the book for no more than 2 minutes. They skim over the subject like it doesn’t matter but they talk about everything else when it comes to comics. I’ve been blocked or told to shut up when I brought up the quality issue in the comment section. I think one reason people in the industry don’t talk about the problem of quality is because it points out how bad their friends (creators) in the industry are when it comes to their work on books. Spawn, ultimate Spider-Man, the big game doesn’t have a quality problem and that’s why they sold thousands of copies. Those books should be a counter argument to the stupid reasons people give for why other titles aren’t selling. Instead everyone keeps saying that the industry is ok.

@PrivateCitizen84

2 ай бұрын

Yeah if they can't even talk about quality then quality is the key problem they are trying to hide. I would add all this oversaturation of preachy lecturing messaging detracts from the fun. It's a quality and a fun problem across all walks of entertainment now. I can really like dumb and/or bad stuff if it's still done with a sense of fun like first Aqua-man movie, but preachy bad/dumb nah.

@resistancepublishing

2 ай бұрын

@@PrivateCitizen84 I completely agree with you on that one. I aim to bring back the fun and adventure in comics. It’s seriously missed by readers

Price to entertainment value killed comics.

I still remember the day I stopped reading comics because of the poor metadata.

It's time to a publisher with compelling characters and stories and traditional values arise...

If marvel had 10 good comics coming out each month and not all the garbage.with top artwork and writers .sells would be up.

At least they have spider goblin coming.

Marvel DC Burgers: Eat what we put in front of you!

Going into this unbeknownst to the discussion, I assume the problem is media oversaturation and bars on creativity. After: inflation, 69% lower revenues, audience is predominantly white men, comics push diversity onto an ageing alienated demographic. As a UK citizen, I never bought comics because nobody sold them, so hearing most retailers are self-employed individuals explained that problem.

Digital should have grown the comic book industry and reached a bigger audience. But the price point was too high to bring in new readers. A lot of old readers left because the price point was too high for the entertainment value that they were getting. The focus on turning established characters gay instead of creating great new characters that are gay was an issue amongst older fans who grew up with these characters felt disrespectful to characters and the fans.

A more simple reason is that the DC and Marvel have lost the youth market because their characters and stories have too much history and convoluted continuity. Manga doesn't have this problem because they are all self-contained stories and with clear continuity without any need for reboots, crossovers or any of that stuff. Quality writing is also important but people underestimate how continuity snarl really makes superhero comics difficult to get into this is why Invincible has won so much praise because it has one continuity and ending.

@annymora-rq6vi

2 ай бұрын

Claro y tik tok la persona quieren algo rápido y sencillo y por eso el manga y dicha plataforma son las más populares en la juventud

@BlaBlaBla-76

2 ай бұрын

Disagree. One of the most fun things for me when I was still reading Marvel, was hunting for back issues! It is unique for many comics series, especially at Marvel, but damn I loved it.

@hamizanyunos1502

2 ай бұрын

@@BlaBlaBla-76 That may be fun for you but that requires a lot of effort to understand the full plot when there is a massive crossover or crisis storyline rolls out.

@kiethveseyofficial

2 ай бұрын

@@hamizanyunos1502More like Crisis On Infinite Lesbians in modern Crossovers.

@hamizanyunos1502

2 ай бұрын

@@kiethveseyofficial It doesn't matter if the comics were woke or not. The problem of convoluted continuity remains

The wallets stay closed. As for the organization... smells like the Comic Book Defense Fund and Oklahoma City all over again. 😢

@mrcliff3709

2 ай бұрын

Can you explain that? Pardon my ignorance

@MerrimanDevonshire

2 ай бұрын

@@mrcliff3709 Look up Oklahoma City Comic Book Indecency Lawsuit in the late 1990s, should be more than a few articles 'from back in the day'.

the first step to solving any problem is too first admit you have one, so until that happens I don't things getting any better

Dang man Earth 2 is my LCS. It will be missed. 😥

It seems like 2024 could be the year when a good chunk of the western entertainment industry collapses. Everywhere you look: Hollywood, gaming industry or the comic industry they have the same problem and are not willing to accept that people just do not want this woke crap anymore. I have no problem giving money to DC for the Kyle Rayner Compendium, I really enjoy it, but for stuff like gay superman my wallet is closed. We have decades of classic stuff to go to but this people living in their bubbles which keep getting smaller everyday just do not understand it yet.

He seems to be ignoring there about 2500 comic shops in the US and only like 300 at most did the survey. There was a question that asked why we think sales are down in their store or something but if they didn’t say quality it’s cuz they didn’t think that’s why

Female and non-binary are put in the same category because one special flower said he/she was non-binary and it's too embarrassing to put the percentage of 0.001 on the sheet.

What happens if all of a sudden these comics shops start selling only manga (that are far superior in quality than modern comics) ? Do you believe they will thrive?

I went into my lcs a few days ago I picked up the newest issue of Batman & robin and hellblazer the quality of the paper was so bad it literally felt like tissue paper I immediately put them back on the shelves.

Look at ASM..how long have the fans been asking for Peter and Mj to be married again. What about how the X-men HOP was amazing and then Jordan white dropped the ball.

Getting the gay factor out would solve 90% of the issues. An added 10% in quality would fix the rest.

Call me crazy but, if the survey is anonymous, what are the chances that the shops that reported to be doing better are the ones connected to the whisper network?

Perch gonna be like: " The quality of comics is still there. Touch the book! It's still paper. See the staples? Books are holding together. The art might not be good but it's better than Arby's. Comics are better than anything from Arby's. "

I've met that lady and been to that store. super crazy woke. they basically just ignore the problems, pretend all is well with the industry. that lady and her store are in Canada. I think our inflation is worse than in the US by far. Our price of gas is $6 per gallon. Canada is more woke and has worse inflation, i think our LCS's are suffering.

Soooo .... It occurs to me that quality is handled by the things mentioned like returnability - If nobody buys the comic and it gets sent back, the publishers take an equal hit. Also, *proper* FOC handling, the first issue comes out, retailers get 4-11 days to see if they are hits, before the next issue is foisted upon us. These are things that allow the publishers to share the risk a bit, and for us to ensure they're not just throwing stuff against the wall. But it's the 1st year of the survey so maybe a general question of quality will be posed, it's just quite subjective.

I try to get some of my godkids ages 9 to 16 to comics years later they say they suck.only one says spawn is still badass.they rather have a new game or bucks for there Systems.

Why are you surprised after taking one look at Jen Hayme (or whatever its name is).

I think Mad Cave started spacing issues 1-2 2 months apart to help get more orders in. Maybe it should be a rule across the board to help.

I asked my comic book shop how many pulls u got on file.he take a look. 33.that have pulls and am the highest buyer.everyone else gets cards games and toys.ect.

All the terrible Marvel writers are starting to move over to DC now. That'll fix things!

Preach

One thing I want: good stories! I don't even care if creators run their mouths. Honestly, just need quality stories and I'm good.

If they can't admit the ships sinking oh well good bye comic pro

It's all about pride isn't it ? They are learning the hard way that pride is a sin. Too prideful,pompous and arrogant to admit they are wrong. Zero self reflection and humility. This is what is killing the comic book industry. Everybody can see except the editors and the woke clowns they keep hiring.

@CassAndKirk

2 ай бұрын

Speaking facts

@ernestomendez7419

2 ай бұрын

The proud don't own mirrors. Realizations are as common as unicorns to these people.

@scrittle

2 ай бұрын

Pride is just a word, what example specifically is the subject of 'pride'? Or is this a quote to the scrapped The Lorax song.

At this point my pull list is ultimate Spider-Man, and whatever book Jeremy Adams is on so green lantern right now. Common denominator? Good writers. Nobody else at marvel or dc is worth trusting enough to spend 4-6 dollars on every month.

I honestly believe physical form print is dead in the water. 4/5 bucks a comic, that's (advertising removed) maybe 23 pages... I think publishers should be thankful anyone buys anything at that value.

You are not allowed to discuss any of this stuff even moderately. I was banned from various comic reddit channels for making reasonable and obvious points. The comic industry has opened its doors to absolute lunatics, incapable of having a reasoned or logical conversation; this includes fans and pros. It’s finished, there’s no fixing this industry.

@Avarn388

2 ай бұрын

@TheUnseenFenianHand These folks are cultist in their actions. While I’m definitely not right leaning, their lack of self awareness is truly frightening. To them, their politics personally isn’t dividing. They take advantage of folks charity and innate goodness. When really the whole argument is that these comics many of the recent ones are poorly written, partisan messages to boot. You know; Static Shock is one of my favorite cartoons and heroes and that series had some social and political elements but it was rarely heavy handed. Dwayne was a writer first and foremost and while he had his views; he respected the craft above all else. I could acknowledge some of these folks can craft stories decently, Tom King, but their personal politics often prove to be barriers for them. And it’s a shame because superheroes are meant to be larger than life and inspire. But we can’t have that can we?

The comics I read all have great stories. But then, I only read back issues nowadays so...

“Value” is the key. Are current comics a value to the customer. And value is measured by comparing cost to enjoyment. Current comics are a “low value” purchase imo. I don’t like the experience of reading them so there’s no way I’m plopping down $40-50 for ten comics I don’t like or am indifferent to. But if I enjoyed them they way I enjoyed comics around 2006-2008 then yeah I’m paying that money. Because I will read and reread them. So instead I’m collecting Marvels Epic Collections (pre-1985) because they are very much worth the price. I read them and reread them. The math favors the purchase.

I only have Spawn titles in my pull list. Everything else I buy are back issues and Savage Sword of Conan mags from the 80s. Sometimes old 2000 AD progs. That's it. Nothing new is worth it to me.

We tell them why we aren't buying, they call us every ist and phobe name under the sun. People produce books promising things we say we want, they make big money. Writers have multiple books cancelled or relaunched due to low sales. They give them another book. The people who sell their books tell them directly that customers don't want the stuff they put out. They bury their head in the sand. Sometimes you have to accept industries are too ignorant, stupid, and bloody minded to save, and you have to say goodbye.

The quality is terrible. You have to spend money to make money.

Just to add to this...Some of the new printers do allow for returns and they didn't mention that? Over all sales are down at these shops across comics...so that mean even the indies are not doing well. Which I knew from my own data going to retailers and asking them. Lots of issues and that's the best report they can do?

I have gone to my local shops and bought things that catch my interest, be it new books or omnis or trades, to find some entertainment and to help them keep their lights on. But the last two months I am going less and less because all the stuff I like, well….I’ve bought it. And there isn’t anything inspiring me to buy what’s new. Seeing “spider goblin” made me realize it’s just dead in the water. Making Peter INTO the Green Goblin is like shoving a finger up your backside instead of to your neck or wrist or chest to check for a pulse. They are so out of touch with what the comic buying population wants that they’re just flatulating bad ideas hoping one hits on an issue with the speculators. Only issue is these comics have no value beyond a chase variant, and people son’t even give enough of a damn to chase what is essentially now a trading card. Video killed the radio star, Hollywood murdered comics.

Out of curiosity how many paying comicbook (floppies, tpb) readers do you think there are? When I see the top seller for a month only moved 150- 175k units I get the idea their`s only 1-2 mill buyers, is that insanely low or is it too high?

@chrischreative2245

2 ай бұрын

X-men used to sell 250k issues a month consistently alone

@AbortedEvolution

2 ай бұрын

A lot of comic buyers are also the same person buying multiple variant covers and the like as well. I think the actual number of comic buyers is a good deal lower than they even project. For instance, I always buy cover A&B of BRZRKR when it drops, so right there I count as two customers when i'm only one.

I quit comics in 2016 when i noticed how i was spending $50 a week & was finished reading my weekly stack in around a hour. & some stuff was still good back then. Can't imagine spending that amount now. If your charging $5 or more a issue you should be getting the greatest art & stories ever in the history of comics.

Awesome work mate

Cover collectors, low quality, and Midtown have ruined comics for me. I had $200-$300 a year just to spend on subs and its just not good.😢

Much like the pinball/arcade operator hobby, people are aging out of the comic book hobby. It'll get interesting for DC/Marvel when Midtown has to start closing stores.

Totally something unrelated: how did you have your audio so quiet even though there is a fan or AC blowing at you? Sorry to ask… 😅

Blah blah percent of retailers POLLED** Which is not even significant percentage of the entire 2000 comic shops they say carry new comic books. Would like to know what percent of retailers they polled in comparison to the number of comic shops. Edit. 8 percent of shops were polled LML

@scrittle

2 ай бұрын

Knowing America, it was likely 8% of thriving areas known for comic sales.

@shadowiley1483

2 ай бұрын

Every comic retailer was invited to participate in the poll. Not every retailer chose to participate. Certainly, some retailers may not have known about the poll, but many who knew just didn't respond, for whatever reason.

@rammisalami

2 ай бұрын

@@shadowiley1483 I was told they need to pay a membership fee to participate. Though at this point I doubt the big two would listen to you if you polled 100 percent of shops. They know what comics sell and what doesn’t so no luncheon is gunna change that.

The cover them self I feel have been sucking lately.u got that going for them plus the prices.and if it's not good I feel myself and other drop it these days after two issues.

The reason I looked into this a channel I watch all the time a dude had really good top graded key comics and a lot of them were losing so much value it was shocking literally the losses were thousands

I have a pushback on this: Although I'm not denying that woke-ism and poor quality isn't an issue in the industry, and there's no question that stores avoid talking about it, I don't think it's by far the primary issue killing the medium. Unlike anyone else in these comments, I've been at ComicsPro two years in a row (2023 & 2024). And that conference is not a really a place to 'complain about quality' to the Big 2. I mean, as an individual retailer, you certainly could, if you wanted to. In 2023, you could have gone up privately to C.B. Cebulski (I did, and gave him our comics, just for fun) or this year, to Dan Buckley, and you could have told them, "Hey, a lot of your titles have been lacking in quality lately, why is that?" But what would that really have done? It's not like the 150 retailers there (most of whom are indeed white middle-aged guys, and they're only 10% of all comic shops anyway) are going to suddenly unify in a hotel ballroom and agree on that. They attend the conference to establish individual relationships with publishers, creators and distributors so they can stay plugged into the industry. And the publishers are there to promote their books. And there are a hell of a lot of books - they can't be all bad. Which brings me to this: the explanation that the quality of comics has gone down seems counter-intuitive to what I see in our regional local comic shops (none of which are closing, by the way!). Every month, our region's flagship stores, like Phantom and New Dimension, have hundreds of titles for sale from dozens of publishers, not just Marvel and DC. Some of these titles *have* to be good - they can't all be bad. Hell, we've been able to convince more than 250 shops to stock our comics on their shelves, which should tell you that a good number of stores are quite open-minded about new publications if they're marketed right. But you're right that there aren't a whole lot of people left coming into stores to buy any of this stuff. Some of that is due to losing an audience because of politics, sure. But those old readers that are lost because of that are from two generations ago: Gen X and Boomers. That doesn't account for why millennials and zoomers are mostly DONE with the medium of comics. And I believe that has happened because of a paradigm shift, the same way few people read newspapers anymore or wear analog watches. Comics have been killed because of streaming, social media, movies, manga/anime, video games, and other electronic pursuits taking up people's attention spans. Most people under 35 simply have no interest in sitting down and reading a Western comic magazine, and the small numbers that do aren't enough to sustain the number of shops which exist today. In addition, the presence of comics has diminished everywhere, so not only is it hard to find them, but it's hard to even hear about them. Comics are a very niche market at this point - they no longer take up a central place in pop culture the way they used to. This is similar to the way some other things have receded in the public consciousness, such as vinyl records or jazz music (two niches we still support). I'm sorry, but we simply have to get used to comics being a thing that not everyone likes or even understands. Unless the Internet and video games disappear for a very long time, comics will not be returning to their former glorious heights. That doesn't mean we should stop creating - on the contrary, we should work that much harder to reach audiences. But it only works to convert one reader at a time. At this point, the best we can do is slowly re-expand the niche. There's no mass solution to convert millions at once.

I am actually reading Venom Lethal Protector in a hardcover collected edition licenced to panini, spain. I am actually only buying ONE monthly us comic, and is no from marvel nor dc, and the stuff is so mid that i just wait for the collected edition, many times waiting for the price to drop for overstock, but still I read mostly work before 2010's from us. Europe and Japan still produce cool comics.

Quality is sort of it but that’s so subjective. It’s price AND ordering the next issue before the previous one is out AND shipping problems AND streaming services weren’t such a big thing even 5 years ago to compete w comics… Don’t like DC or Marvel? Read books from Image or Boom or others.

“Identify” as caucasian?

Ok I've many have been saying but "Quality" is subjective content would be more accurate as much of the current is not resonating with readers. Example most people would rather read Ultimate Spiderman over main Spiderman. And there's the cost very few people seem to be taking about that as it's also a factor. AS most current American books sold are collected editions and often stories more than decade old.

I'm hoping Ghost Machine is actually good. I haven't picked up any issues yet. I'm waiting to hear most of the buzz before I empty wallet on anything these days

Its one thing the publishers & distributors are blind, but retailers cant afford to be so tunnel visioned. Cause most of them are missing the hard data from Disney, MS/Xbox, Netflix etc. That shows casuals (including Gen Z) on mass starting to follow the example of o.g. fandoms; by retreating into pre 2005 entertainment. The data also revealed Gen Z is as thirsty as can be for 80ties & 90ties entertainment, and enjoys it more and more through physical (analogue) media (carriers). All these Third Wavers must be loosing their marbles LOL. Recently SIE (Sony), Crunchy Roll, Ubisoft, EA, Warner etc sturred up a lot of negative cloud by messing with people purchased digital entertainment, and making statements that gamers and consumers in general should be prepared to not own their entertainment (including things purchased decades ago. The backlash has been real, cause the consumption of digital goods has stagnated due to the actions of these companies, and also because mainstream influencers and even the mainstream media also has picked up on it. It says a lot that MS/Xbox recently announced a new & improved back compat program. And also ensured Xbox & pc gamers they are working on a new program for "video game preservation. To ensure Xbox console gamers and pc gamers who bought (Xbox) games through MS stores and previous Xbox consoles (physical & digital) wont loose access to their purchases games. With the only exception foe games where ip owners dont want to participate. Since the first "back compat" program was a huge succes, Im counting on it for this one to succeed as well. For those who dont know what this, its a program Xbox launched for Series X & S. Where they approached studios/publishers if they could make games from previous gens compatible for the current consoles. And also offered free of charge to unlock or fix frame rate issues, fixing small bugs etc. So these older games not only would run on modern hardware, but also would play as originally intended; but didnt back in the day due to hardware limitations. The companies who gave permission saw most games Xbox gave a "touch up" started to sell again, so their old catalogue started to make money again. Where as the industry until that moment always wrongly assumed old games dont sell. Many of these games looked and felt totally different, and even games that flopped back in the day due to the Xbox digital infrastructure found its own audience. And investments they had written of & forgotten years ago, all of sudden gave out a positive returns. So the fact MS/Xbox as direct response started these programs up again says a lot, especially since it is a money & time consuming customer friendly program. But one that has proven to pay of monetarily and goodwill wise. Netflix isnt ignoring their own data either, and are adding more 80ties & 90ties content to their service, heck there are even media reports that Disney is working on restoring a few old cable channels again. Where they 24/7 exclusively will run the authentic Disney shows and movies. Heck even Fink (ceo Black Rock) had a public meltdown over the financial hits they are taking globally, cause people and small & midsize buisnesses are pushing back against and avoiding ESG/DEI related products & services. And "new(er)"smaller companies offering ESG/DEI free alternatives. These developments makes it even more sad so many LCS' S stay loyal to the big publishers. To make a long story short, comic & video games stores need to pull their pitty party heads out of their asse, cause all these developments could save their stores. But only if they have the balls to choose for themselves, start paying attention to what their (former) customers are doing outside there stores; and anticipate on that.

10:34 To answer your question, When using statistics, if a percentage for one category is way too small compared to all the others, the best way to avoid disregarding it all together is to add it into another to increase the overall number and make it seem more significant than what it actually is (the smaller category can often be less than 1% of the whole sample size of categorical data). If done right, you get categories that are more well rounded, more attention grabbing and make more sense (ex. For the meat market, instead of giving percentages for every animal like chicken, duck, ox, cow, sheep, ... You create categories like poultry and cattle or even white and red meat). If done badly, you get what the article gives as categories (will be reusing the same names to elaborate) : - "A vast majority" of retailers identifying as "Caucasian and Male". This category is filtered by 1 race criteria and 1 gender criteria so it logically excludes "People of color" of all genders, "Caucasian women" and "Caucasian non-binary". - 10% of retailers identifying as "People of color". Due to the lack of a gender criteria filter, this category would logically combine every gender from male to female and non-binary as long as they aren't Caucasian. - 11% of retailers identifying as "Female and Non-binary". This category has no race criteria filter meaning it could include Caucasian and non Caucasian as long as the retailers are not male... This renders the previous category of "People of color" faulty and possibly fragmented. The article's category division of retailers is bad because it doesn't follow a consistent rule for each category (gender and race criteria) meaning you cant compare all three of them together at the same time which defies the point of statistics. The only category that can be used to compare the others separately is "Causian and Male" and it's the only one where the percentage isn't known and would actually vary depending on what you compare it with. A more logical way of making the categories would be "Caucasian and Male", "People of color and Male", "Caucasian and Female + Non-binary" and "People of color and Female + Non-binary". Combining Female + Non-binary together would artificially increase the Non-binary percentage as it seems far too small to be made into its own category. Then comes the last category given : - 10% of retailers identify as "LGBTQ". This group has nothing to do with race and includes all genders. It could combine "Male" with "Female and Non-binary" and "Caucasian" with "People of color". You cannot use it to compare with the other categories because they don't have a "non-LGBTQ+" criteria in their filter so they would already be including them. You can't even compare it to the "Female and Non-binary" category because non-binary is already included as part of the LGBTQ+ community. It's all over the place.

My LCS makes high profit sales with back issues from the 80s and 90s than the recent dreck from the past five years where he barely orders any new publications.

I'm gonna say this and it's the honest truth comics have been in trouble for awhile the corporate involvement destroyed the love for our hobby collecting I stopped collecting years ago because I saw how the industry was shifting and hasn't been good for years and stop with all these dumb variants cover stuff that isn't gonna help get back to good story telling if this doesn't change this hobby is gonna die and all our comic hangouts will die out I looked a lot of shops are closing generations aren't collecting like they did years ago fix it

the real reason why comics are dying off is all because of the superhero genre!

I think Manga is doing just fine in America. Some of the smaller publishers are putting out lots of great or different stuff. Glut of Superhero boring filth at Marvel and DC is the only real problem I don't care that some dumb superhero is gay or a woman. I dropped boring superhero comics long before they did that. You guys are way too excited about boring shit Pricing is for sure a huge barrier to entry as well

The number 1 issue hurting comics: untalented far-left activists.

More like Comicsnoob.

The quality issue at DC and Marvel has been an issue for almost ten years. Smh 🤦🏾‍♂️ I don’t understand why Marvel and DC won’t listen. We have said with our dollars that we don’t establish characters turned into poc or lgbt plus. We don’t want to read Tom Taylor as Nightwing or James IV as Tim Drake. I don’t wanna buy Megan Fritzmartin comic book or Leah Williams comic. Look how DC and Marvel keep hiring the same fail writers.

@PubeStache

2 ай бұрын

They won't pay for top talent. I don't see that changing ever

Retailers (and ComicsPRO) have been telling publishers about quality concerns nonstop for years. It isn't something retailers have any control over, especially with the Big 2. And you sound completely disconnected (as in, like not a retailer) for railing about it as though 1.) retailers aren't frustrated with the quality of their output, and 2.) it's something that Marvel and DC are just going to up and change if retailers complain about it. DC made it abundantly clear during the pandemic that they didn't give two shits about anything but their own asses, and both companies suffer from top-down exec interference based solely on spreadsheets and no regard for causation. The organization tries to focus on the aspects they have the best chances of influencing, functional things that might ease the burden of having to deal with shit product. Marvel's canned response is, "We're not hearing that from other retailers", and DC's response for the last three years has been... oh wait, they pretty much just ignore retailers almost completely.

Buy one get 10 free lol 😂

It's funny. They were not the ones to define it but Japan is still better at writing progressive stories. Still, while Onimai and Made in Abyss are leagues better than "unsolicited opinions on Israel" and "if this is what women dating women is like...", they are a special kind of bizarre and perverse you can't sell to a wide audience.

The direct market as it is does not work it is archaic. 30 years ago it hardly worked but at the time it's what there was. No one knew anything the market was what whoever was in charge says it was. But as it is now how the direct market is set up is going to fail it's set up to fail it can never work today. When my LCS owner tells me all the shity has to do every week and every month and every year I f****** lose my mind. This guy whose name is Dan is a great guy who just loves comics he can't read them because he has to give them to people every week and all the shity has to do consumes all the time. The way they have it set up is set for him to fail. The direct market can be saved I don't have the answers but it needs to change. If local comic shops can directly get things from direct people and publishers things will go a lot smoother the way it is with diamond and whoever else it's f****** horrible. I know the comics gate Ethan Cult hates Eric July But Eric July is f****** killing this s*** money-wise And is doing all the f****** things that comics gate and Ethan cannot do. I say this to say he's on to something and if there was some sort of system to reach out to people like Eric and directly get things from people like him and publishers or whomever. things might get better. Diamond and whoever else next to them has to go this s*** doesn't f****** work. Having to pay five people before you can put your book out doesn't f****** work.

@locusmortis

2 ай бұрын

The problem with Eric July is that comics like ISOM are awful stories with terrible art. he's got Chuck Dixon doing some work for him now which is an improvement but he needs to stop using brazilian sweat shop artists.

Comics = gay. Just read Bandes Dessinees

Go woke go broke

The best days for DC&MARVEL are in the rear view mirror in my opinion! My LCS has cut down on books across the board! I did inventory from 2010-2022 and I’ve noticed the gradual decline in sales and quality, reboots, renumbering long running books,empty crossover events, gimmick after fn gimmick and over the years it wears out the established audience with nothing to build on! Lumbering Jughead giant Marvel did practically zilch during the heyday of MCU movies except flood the market with vapid vacuous stories that were nothing but a cash grab! Rising prices, driving off creative talent because of their political affiliations, needy weasels trying over and over again to appeal to so called diverse audience that isn’t there! And alienating the long-term readers! The cancel pigs have never been a big help and they don’t care either because they’re too busy alienating people unfairly without proof! Mob mentality, leading to dog piling retailers, creators, and anyone they feel like jumping on! Do as I say, but don’t do as I do! Load of crap! The lack of quality and price gouging, treating retailers badly, which helps to drive off the audience! The big two had better get it together or???🤡🚽🥃💀🤞

@PubeStache

2 ай бұрын

They won't. No point for innovation when they're in denial.