I can't disagree more strongly. "Wokeness" ...eyeroll.... gave us John Stewart, Storm, Thunderbird, Mystique, and Carol Danvers out of a bikini. Don't use "wokeness" to explain away poor creative leadership, low quality art, and misguided intent to monetize over telling good stories. Listen the Manga media is doing everything you mad about and killing it.

@Wes_From_TC

6 ай бұрын

I could make an entire about his stupid this take is. Hall of Fame worthy. 👌

@rickymcn1

6 ай бұрын

Imagine thinking because a character is black that means it's a woke character 🤣 Here's some advice. Before you weigh in on an argument, make sure you understand what people's positions are and what their arguing about. Here's a basic straight forward one for you. It's just one aspect of the problem but it'll get you started. Many, and I mean MANY, writers at the big 2 were hired because they ticked a box, not because they were proven writers. THAT'S what leads to quality issues. That was a POLITICAL hiring decision because it was based on IDENTITY POLITICS which is a cornerstone of WOKE culture. You starting to get this yet kiddo? Don't worry, it'll sink in at some point.

@troffle

6 ай бұрын

"Wokeness" is an excessive perversion of the original progressiveness and social caring plans and movements. First wave feminism did things like recognising women as people, stopping the exclusion to vote. Third wave feminism started being about race and intersectional studies. In 1971, Erin Pizzey championed womens' causes, created a shelter/community centre. She saw the increase in politicisation, misandry and "purity tests" within movements. The charities SHE FOUNDED removed her name from their pages. In 2009, she's wrote that "women and men are both capable of extraordinary cruelty" and "We must stop demonising men and start healing the rift that feminism has created between men and women". Disney has poor creative leadership, low quality art and misguided intent. That doesn't just affect Star Wars and Marvel, now it's hitting the British "Doctor Who" too. Those decisions are coming from the top, driven by wokeness ideas and where they're getting defunded by unsatisfied fans, they're getting funded by DEI-driven BlackRock. You are disagreeing strongly because you are incorrect. There's a difference between justice in/for society and SJW "wokeness". One actually uses words, ideas, thinking and justice; the other is "wokeness".

@sodacan1415

6 ай бұрын

You missed "wretched stories told by diversity hires and untalented hacks."

@jamarioadams2115

6 ай бұрын

​@@Wes_From_TC ok one there is no culture war and two there is no problem with comics the real problem is people like u thinking critical.

Characters like Iceman, Tim Drake and Jon Kent haven't even been deconstructed. They've been destroyed, and then reconstructed as something else fitting the writers fetish.

@JcgLounge

6 ай бұрын

Pretty much. Jon Kent may have been more recent than the other two, but when they started making a huge deal about him being bisexual and then making his stories boring and him telling his father he didn’t do enough. Tom Taylor lost all goodwill the moment he did that.

@natashavanilla8170

6 ай бұрын

Rachel Grey, Kitty Pryde, Psylocke, Beast...List goes on and on. And it's socially and politically impossible to undo the damage in the future

@amaze2173

6 ай бұрын

I feel so bad for Tim….Favorite robin buts he’s gotten nothing for 20 years.

@amead78

6 ай бұрын

But remember, we’re the bigots for not buying those books. 🙄

@davidfrancisco3502

6 ай бұрын

​@@natashavanilla8170Batwoman was an obscure character from the silver age that was created as a rival and love interest for Batman and they only bring her back to be a hollow token lesbian.

Saying "wokeness is not the problem bc the market will correct it" during a time when the market is obviously being corrected is such a ridiculous take

@longtsun8286

6 ай бұрын

The "market will correct it" the exact same way it corrected the American car market when American car companies EPIC FAILed to adapt to a changing market and make cars Americans actually wanted to drive, in the late 1970s and early 1980s: Drive American consumers towards foreign products (manga and manhwa, i.e., Japanese and Korean comics, respectively, in Marvel and DC Comics' cases), and driving American producers toward bankruptcy.

@leandronc

6 ай бұрын

It should really be a clue that Eric July is pulling millions of dollars simply by addressing the one problem this journalist claims comics don't have.

@PrivateCitizen84

6 ай бұрын

@@leandronc If DC/Marvel wasn't failing Eric July would still be spending 300 bucks a time at his LCS. He really took that idea "If not me then who" to heart. A fan who just wants western superhero comics to be great again. Now he has four comic writing pro's to back up his vision. Interesting times.

@Eyrrll

6 ай бұрын

@@leandronc While I admire Eric July’s effort, he is still a very small fish in a large (but shrinking) pond. His ability to generate revenue is off the charts, but his circulation numbers are median. If he wants to make a serious impact on the market, he needs to get his circulation up and his prices down. If he just wants to make money (and there is nothing wrong with that), then charging high prices to a smaller market is fine.

@troffle

6 ай бұрын

@@Eyrrll the key here is not July's tactics or marketing. The key here is that he's filling the gap the big companies have gone nuts and punched holes to create.

It’s such a coincidence that all the bad writers and editors have the same political views…. Weird!

@charlesbaserap8088

6 ай бұрын

And so much of their stuff is self inserts and their own Twitter feeds with illustrations

@SlashTheWeasel

6 ай бұрын

Weird! Weird!

@rufrox9947

6 ай бұрын

Very weird!

@MatthewLoh-ru1mw

6 ай бұрын

Coincidence? I think NOT! (Quote from "The Incredibles" movie)

They aren’t deconstructing characters anymore they are destroying them into oblivion

@PrivateCitizen84

6 ай бұрын

Don't worry this is all "Liptick on a pig". Convincing deconstruction is an actual art form. Even Alan Moore couldn't get it right in his acclaimed Watchmen. When I look a Jake Drake I know it's not Tim Drake. We all know it's not Tim Drake. They know it's not Tim Drake. Crazy AF Mark Hamill coined the phase Jake Skywalker. Tim got Jaked that's all. It's Jake Drake.

@thereseemstobeenanerror1219

6 ай бұрын

​@@PrivateCitizen84 I violently disagree. The nature of the deconstruction is an art form in its own right. The real issue here is that they won't stop using it for literally everyone. And they don't even have to decency to put it back together afterward.

@PrivateCitizen84

6 ай бұрын

@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 Deconstruction is one of many tools in story telling. Taking something apart brick by brick & then reforming it into something else is an art form. In the case of Tim Drake it's smashed to the ground into pieces & taped/glued together in mishapen monstrosity Jake Drake. That's not convincing so it's rejected by the audience.

Beautifully, succinctly spot on. For the longest time, the "approved voices" denied there was a problem. Now, as things collapse, far too late, they are beginning to admit there is a problem, but, in a truly bizarre twist, they can't or won't actually identify that problem. Hmm. Wonder why...🤔😉

@O_G_HELLBOY

6 ай бұрын

They are going to shout at the top of their lungs "I'm not the problem" while everything burns to the ground.

It isn't because of good story telling & understanding these characters & the history! Why are they surprised everything's failing

All of these pet projects that don't make money are fleecing the stock holders of value

This is the same thing that’s happening at Disney who would’ve thought it…

Until the issue is actually addressed by DC and MARVEL nothing is going to get better.

@rfelllner

6 ай бұрын

They need to run out of money first.

@jbbrolic

6 ай бұрын

Yes a lot of people prematurely declaring victory. I'll wait until Disney releases a single non propaganda film to start believing that.

So tired of writers needing to see themselves in these stories. I'd love to write Wonder Woman and Black Panther. They're awesome characters that I'd be honored to write. If I wanted to insert myself I'd write a novel or indy book.

The need to call their losses. Come out with an LGB label for gay comix. Return the main line comics to what people know and love all whilst making Gay heros/slice of life etc under the Gay comix label. If they are right, their target audience will keep that label of comics alive.

I wonder if their writers and editors were hired under some sort of policy that benefits those who have more points in the oppression olympics. That might make wokeness a bigger issue than just content.

I've encountered this retort ("it's not sjw" and/or "wokeness is a right-wing conspiracy") in both comic book circles as well as in animation fandoms. Either these people are blissfully naive and do not possess the tools for critical thinking, OR they are lying about what they say and are trying to disarm critics of woke media by framing any concerns about cultural content as absurd and trivial. Which is ironic, because woke creators (i.e. activists mascarading as creators) are absolutely obsessed with culture and use it to disseminate social and political goals. We have to care as much about culture as they do.

Woke big two comics wouldn’t be nearly as big an issue if we had based ones as well.(it’s all one sided)

@totomen666

6 ай бұрын

Big two literally buyed out their based competitors, DC-> Wildstorm and Marvel -> Malibu Comics; these faks afraid of real competition from something legit based and talented, sadly Eric isn't it, but there is hope in Valiant and Top Cow, Image trying their best but they watered themselves down too much.

8:23 Come on, Wes. The comic's aren't in a good direction because THEY ARE WOKE. 99.98%. That IS the problem. There are writer's, artist's, EDITORS, ALL REALLY WANT to destroy comics and influence children.

13:01 I have to admit that is a very good point. The main market is likely San Fran and hardly anyone is buying any of it? Bad sign right there.

If you want definitive proof that a certain ideology is indeed the core issue of DC and Marvel's decline in sales, then look up the infamous comic writers' Zoom call (which features Mags). They openly discuss topics such as the acknowledgment that they are losing the culture war and express indifference, confident they will regain control of the institutions like DC and Marvel when the cultural pendulum swings their way again. They also openly state that their primary focus is taking established characters and altering their sexual preferences to satisfy the writers' own peculiar fetishes.

They're not setting out, to make mediocre, or outright bad comics? They've admitted to writing things, specifically to upset fans, and then proceeded to insult said disappointed fans. So, yes, they did set out, to crash all the titles. It's more blatant, than ever.

I read X-men new comic. They essentially said they are going to war with humanity. No thanks.

@phoenixifre79

6 ай бұрын

Did you like it more when humanity waged war on them? Is this not enough Genosha for you?

@samfisherxboxog8925

6 ай бұрын

@@phoenixifre79 Have no idea what’s going on with X-men. Jumped on this comic and nopped out. Also isn’t this the same X-men who endorsed killing a guy for a turtle dying because of a plastic bag.

Who is excited over gay Green Lantern, Robin, Superman? NOBODY. Comic pros could easily prove you wrong with kick ass stories with these characters and have their sexuality be part of the character. Instead, they give you badly written fluff to push a social message. Great job calling them out.

This is the first Christmas my 3 boys got interested in comics from the big 2. ALL of the stuff they wanted was from decades ago. There is definitely a market here...if the toxic creatives get cleaned out and get they get serious about telling good stories again.

After reading DUKE #1 by Image/Skybound I realized what a good comic is and how long it's been since DC wrote anything that excited me. I was excited while reading DUKE. DC and Marvel very rarely make me feel excitement or intrigue while reading their books.

Here comes Jason Aaron ready to to finish what bendis started with Superman.

@EvandroACruz

6 ай бұрын

I don't trust in Jason Aaron. Nevermore.

Momentary I am re-reading the Walter Simonson/John Buscema Avengers run (late 1980s). God, in my teens I hated the B-list cast (Black Knight, Monica Rembeau, Hercules, Namor, DOC DRUID, ... 😝). 😂 -> Compared with the late Bendis/post Bendis Avegers stuff - this is GOLD!!! I actually like the storys now! ❤😆

@locusmortis

6 ай бұрын

Avengers 292 was my first Avengers issue and I loved that run (and still do). there are a couple of dodgy fill in issues after 300 then there's a nice little John Byrne/Paul Ryan run.

@BiggieTrismegistus

6 ай бұрын

I'll have to check that out. That was just before I started reading comics. Honestly going back and given my favorite runs and storylines a reread is one of my favorite things to do. It reminds me of why I feel in love with superhero comics in the first place. I just finished the _Sinestro Corps War_ recently and it was so freaking good.

@locusmortis

6 ай бұрын

@@BiggieTrismegistus The great thing is so much of this stuff is in trade, omnibus and epic collection these days

@danalvin1184

6 ай бұрын

Yep same I've got a run from 250 to 295 on a shelf a few feet away & I'm just missing two issues to complete the whole run -- then I'm going to read it all in a row :) Monica was the CAPTAIN MARVEL I grew up with for the entirety of the the Copper Age. . .the MCU casting for her was atrocious. . .not enough poise, grace. elegance or style! I wanted someone who could pull off the sweeping ethereal outfit Monica wore during that period in the 80s lol smh

The lack of good storylines, the complete mischaracterization of the classic heroes and the desconstruction of the heroism,all this will turn way the old readers. My Hero Academia is manga about super-heroes and is very far to be perfect but the old school heroism is there and this single title manages to be more aspirational and heroic than every comic book that Marvel e DC publish in nowadays. The problem is that this new generation of writers don't understand or care about heroism or trying tell us a story with a true good message. They just cara aout your own political agendas and nothing more. The industry needs a new fresh start to survive right now.

Yes Shun and ignore half the audience! Great way to sell comics!

I'm thinking that the pivot to addressing the issue rather than gaslight has more to do with the recent collapse of comic book films. There's no more pretense of being an IP farm if the movies are bombing and the Netflix deals are drying up. This may be the year they finally have no choice but to stand on sales over Twitter uplikes.

I remember reading Doctor Aphra vol.2 and thinking: Is everybody in this series gay? Then she introduced a non binary character, I know this because a character THAT HAD NEVER MET HER BEFORE, refered to her as "they", what sense does that make? Beats me

@natashavanilla8170

6 ай бұрын

Doctor Aphra vol. 1 was good. But it's like they went: "Oh, wait, we have something here...Let's cancel it, relaunch it, and make everyone alphabet people"

@charlesbaserap8088

6 ай бұрын

As much as I love that series and character the first "they" annoyed me not because of the nonbinary part but because there was literally no way the person who never met them was throwing that out there. I really like Alyssa Wong but every book they write has the same self insert Asian manic pixie non binary character that commands half the spotlight, same in Spirit World, Deadpool, and now Captain Marvel.

@cahe6161

6 ай бұрын

@@charlesbaserap8088 They did the same in the Power Rangers comic. Trini and Sack find an alien BABY and inmediately they and everyone else start refering to her as "they" for no reason. They do this in comics because there's no way a non binary character can be introduced properly without them having to correct every single person they meet, and of course since that would be awkard, cringe and ruin the inmersion (even more), apart from the fact of course that an alien species would be familiarized with such an earthly and modern concept

@charlesbaserap8088

6 ай бұрын

@@cahe6161 holy crap, really? That sounds so bad, it just makes the writing feel so forced. On one hand, with the Aphra thing, I get them not wanting to have the more awkward character correcting another character, but they could have had Aphra say it because she actually knew who the character was already and that would clue us and the others in and that's that. The larger point is that it's unnecessary. The story doesn't benefit or suffer from a pronoun, it's functionally useless and while I understand representation, how many times have they had the character say they're nonbinary? Barely any. So almost no one knows because almost no one cares. My daughter is 14 and bi. She couldn't possibly give less of a shit about every character looking like her, because it's not all she is, she's not obsessively wrapped in that one aspect of her being, she's not my gay child, she's my child. She wasn't the gay valedictorian in middle school, she was the valedictorian, period. That's the problem, for lack of a better word, with a lot of these characters. Unlike Storm, who you can visually tell is black, or Jubilee being Asian, without constant repetition there's nothing making something like "nonbinary" or even gay or bi in most cases overtly obvious. In Steve Orlando's Midnighter series, there were several issues his sexuality isn't brought up, just like real life. But then you have some writers who constantly need to show the character doing things like Tini Howard in Excalibur where Rachel and Betsy can't stop hooking up every second.

@cahe6161

6 ай бұрын

@@charlesbaserap8088 That's the worst part of changing characters like Alan Scott, John Kent, Ice Man and Tim Drake, not only does it messes with their history, now all they'll ever be is the "gay" character, and that's all their stories are about now, I say gay because we all know we are never going to see John and Tim with a woman again.

Yea the problem is the bad comics are just putting the good ones down with them. Because you now have to carefully select every single title you buy, you have to check the writers, check the artists. Wonder are these creators going to ruin the comic with their personal beliefs.

@fm1668

6 ай бұрын

Yeah that’s a good point. Some titles are good but they don’t get notoriety because there surrounded by garbage so there’s distrust.

My problem isn't as much them introducing LGBT characters but that the LGBT issues seem to take a front seat and the superhero element is pushed to the side. It's one thing for Tim Drake to be bisexual, it's a whole nother thing for his personality to be boiled down to I love Bernard which is what his comic series felt like. Same for Jon Kent -- why do we need so much romance between him and the pink-haired boyfriend? I want to see action and heroics, not him and his boyfriend texting in the bath tub.

@BiggieTrismegistus

6 ай бұрын

They aren't superhero comics. They're romance comics staring people who happen to be superheroes. It's so ridiculous.

It's funny how these defenders of this industry will always attempt to scarlett letter you whenever you bring up "woke" or culture war stuff. I subscribe to Little Platoon's belief(excellent channel) on woke. It does exist however there are those who take it way too far in the opposite direction. For me, so many modern comics just suck. They come off as storyboards with awful dialogue and characters aren't written in character. It's one thing if there was some excellent writing paired with a message(Denny O'Neil did this beautifully with his Green Arrow and Green Lantern comic) and not the equivalent of a megaphone but that's not what we're getting. We are getting immature writers who lack any self-awareness or humility and quite honestly only got into the industry because of nepotism and certain folks excusing mediocrity for ideological alignment. It's pathetic and sad and that(among other reasons) is why manga is trouncing comics. Mangaka have their own views but they are strictly focused on their craft. And here's the thing; I do NOT celebrate the downfall of the American CB industry. I grew up with comics way before anime and manga thanks to my uncle. I want the industry to come back, but really folks, like Hibbs, Bleeding Stool and everyone else really need to get a big old reality check. Modern comics aren't clicking with audiences and the bottom is going to fall out when the direct market finally collapses. Because Amazon and digital sales aren't what they are cracked up to be.

If Brian Hibbs says he doesn't think the current writers are purposely trying to ruin comics and they're writing their best story, then he's admitting that the writers suck.

Ah, to live in an echo chamber. No one is buying our titles, but it's not because they're bad comics. It's because they're bad people.

As someone who has never been a big Superman reader, the Rebirth runs of Superman and Action Comics are some of my favorite runs ever. At least the last 10 years. I left Superman when issue 3 of the Man of Steel series by Bendis came out. I was tempted to pick it up when Williamson took over the book and I hear good things about PKJ’s Action Comics run, but what Tom Taylor did with Jon has kept me away. Super Sons was a great book and they’ve completely destroyed Jon. He never should have been aged up. There’s a story there if a writer and DC have the balls to tell it. The only reason I continue to buy Batman and Detective is because I don’t want any gaps in my run. I have every issue since 1989 (plus a bunch from before that I’ve since picked up) and I’m holding out hope that something changes but the current state of Bruce/Batman is terrible. My pull is the smallest it’s ever been. Batman, Detective, Daredevil…that’s it. Then I buy things like Nottingham and Deathdealer and whatever Johns is publishing with Mad Ghost. But it’s nothing I’m super enthusiastic about. It’s a sad state the industry is in.

@BiggieTrismegistus

6 ай бұрын

A lot of the _Rebirth_ stuff was good and I actually really enjoyed _Doomsday Clock._ That was the last time I was really excited about Marvel or DC.

@jeffhabib6673

6 ай бұрын

@@BiggieTrismegistus Doomsday Clock was great and they managed to screw it up by making it non-canon and having Metal be this universe-wide event. They basically brought Bendis in and decided to do the New 52 2.0. Unfortunate because the overarching Rebirth storyline with the one-shot, The Button, and what should have been Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers were abandoned for Metal and whatever stupid nonsense Bendis was attempting to do with Levithan. Didio had DC in much better shape than it currently is under Jim Lee, but he got fired because of his ego and pettiness. Rebirth was doing objectively better than the New 52 ever did and I think it pissed him off. I could go on for days about all of the asinine decisions made around that time lol

Merry belated Christmas & Happy New Year to you Wes. Just my 2 cents, but I believe there is several factors as to why the comic industry (And by extension, the rest of other entertainment spheres) is failing. These duplicitous bellends can pick and choose to ignore what they want at their own peril. Economical factors and such is not something businesses can control. Only predict and adjust accordingly. What they CAN control us how they conduct, market and sell their product to the customer. Woke ideology is certainly not helping it. If anything, these days it's what talentless hacks, one trick ponies and mediocre talents tend to fall on as a substitute for good stories and writing. I personally consider wokeness a poison that should never be tolerated in any capacity. Not to mention how insincere they tend to be in a storytelling capacity. The other notable problems is the status quo, over-reliance on certain I.P's and misuse of multiverse/time travel in comics. The characters are never allowed to truly progress or have an end to their story. Like they're constantly stuck in this limbo. Hack writers going out of their way to antagonize potential customers certainly doesn't help.

Ok, the market determines what it wants. So, how long does that take? Sales have been shite for, what, 5 years? More? How long does it take for the market to get through to the production team?

The problem is Wokeness. Not just woke stories but woke hiring practices and woke ideology among the writers that predispositions them to hate the primary built in audience, middle aged men with disposable income. A competent writer could write a good story with "woke" themes and do it well. A woke writer can't write a competent story about anything, even "woke" themes, because writing a good comic is not the point. Writing a comic that pisses off the audience they despise is THE point, the rest is secondary. Imho anyway.

I've been saying it for years. If Marvel & DC would introduce YAOI & YURI lines sales would increase. Also maybe comics shouldn't be $6 for a digital copy

(Heavy Sigh) As a Black Person, I hate how the word "woke" has been "appropiated" by other people. Even when I see other Black People use it in that way.

@toddholland7511

6 ай бұрын

Thank you. "Woke" got roaches now.

@phoenixifre79

6 ай бұрын

I'm with you. It's like people using iregardless with their whole chest. Comics have always addressed these social issues but now that kids are playing on their lawn they cranky.

Some you doofuses in the comments are acting like this channel doesn’t go out of its way to shed light on GOOD books as well. But these cultural friction conversations are a big part of current comics on all sides. Don’t like it, find and support a channel that remains agnostic in its approach. I seriously doubt you’ll find one. Sooner or later, your favorite, super positive YTer is going to chime in and throw daggers at people they don’t like. It never fails.

I still buy Marvel and D.C. books. And of the reasons I pass on a book or am buying less books year after year I would say woke content is not at the top of the list. These are some things that I am unhappy with in no particular order. - price and backup stories Books are averaging around $4.99 an issues. I think that’s too high. In response to this publishers are throwing in back-up stories which are rarely ever any good. -line events They do these events that are tied into the monthly books with their alpha/omega book ends. I have yet to read one that was any good. This tactic goes back years and years. Either make it a story arc in the monthly book or make it an isolated miniseries. Pick a f**king lane. -musical chairs with the artists It’s hard for me to go all in with a book when the artists are being shifted around without anyone considering the visual continuity of the stories. The new Blade series is great but I dropped it because six issues in they have already had 3 different artists on the book. Daredevil: 3 different artists in four issues. Incredible Hulk: as of issue #9 three different artists. -creators’ smug attitude towards the audience. It doesn’t matter what side of the political spectrum these creators are on they all do this. Creators will spend every waking second mulling on about a culture war that they allegedly think doesn’t exist and not once spend a second talking about the project they are working on. You ask them their thoughts on politics they will go on ad nauseam. You ask them a release date for their book they won’t give you the f**king time of day.

CG people and others like Eric July are making millions while DC and Marvel can barely get even A- list characters to sell anything in the same country as good.

Basically this guy is saying "The content driving readers away isn't what's driving them away!" Passing the blame onto the customer for not liking the "correct" content. That's what all these cultural warriors do, they want to TELL the customer what they want instead of listening to what customers are asking for.

There's absolutely no argument for their case. These comic companies pay peanuts, there's absolutely no way you can argue they are using top talent. If the current crop, that factually aren't selling, can't make rent, you're telling me it's attractive to people that have options?

In 1987 after Crisis On Infinite Earths, some older DC Comics fans left the medium because they felt and believed that the comics they grew up with during the late 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s were better than what Byrne, Miller, Starlin, Perez and others were doing with the reboot of the DCU under the guidance of Jenette Kahn. That being said, whatever loss of long-time customers who were driven away due to the creative and reimagined characters of their youth and teenage years were not only replaced but the customer base expanded. Can we say the same thing since Morrison's Final Crisis (2005) with DC being unable to replace long time fans like myself and failure to create and re-expand a new generation of customers for the past few years? Oh well, I guess I'm not the target base that DC wants anymore.

I try I try not to use the word woke either or SJW. I do use the word agenda and propaganda. The comics are bad now. The characters are dull, boring, and out of character. The stories are rehashes of better stories. Also the cost is untenable.

I don’t like the term woke either. I hate the culture war. Because we can’t deny it. This stuff is having an effect on entertainment. That includes comics.

Let me offer a rebuttal to an argument (or maybe it’s a counter-argument) that I see sometimes. Defenders of modern comics will say that Superman, Captain America, and the like have always dealt with social issues and often dealt with politics. Yes, this is true. However, there are some differences. *Those stories were well-written and sensitive (usually; let’s not pretend there weren’t duds back in the day too) instead of being ham-fisted, awkward, and pretentious. They had a definite message, but it rarely felt shoved down the reader’s throat. *The characters in the old stories actually did something. They worked to make a change instead of sitting around whining, drinking, and calling people bad names. There was action, humor, and such instead of the characters standing around going, “This is bad and you should feel bad!” and nothing more (or, even worse, seemingly advocating for terrorism. Looking at you, Miller and Coates). *The villains in those stories, while portrayed to be in the wrong, were still realistic. They were driven by understandable motives such as greed, vengeance, or even ideology, and they felt real because the writers didn’t feel the need to make them over the top. They knew the reader was intelligent enough to realize, “Oh, this character is hurting other people for their own gain and doesn’t care, so they’re the villain!” While the villains were usually portrayed as deserving whatever they got, there were issues in which the villains saw the error of their ways and repented, showing a depth a lot of modern comics simply don’t have. *A lot of older comics weren’t afraid to look at things from different angles. They pointed out there could be bad people on both sides of an issue instead of going, “If you don’t feel exactly this way, you’re horrible!” There was more a sense of morality, something like, “You should treat others with respect and help them instead of tolerating hatred & abuse.” It was also easier to tell the good side from the bad side. *It wasn’t every dang issue. There were stories, occurrences, plot developments, and character growth. Even in X-Men, which had a running theme of discrimination and persecution, they actually did things. It wasn’t 18 pages of awkward political talk and maybe 2 pages of something interesting happening. *The writers weren’t acting like they were the first ones to address social issues or represent a group. A lot of writers nowadays think they’re innovative when they aren’t. How many times now have we seen writers act like they were the first one to change a character’s sexuality, race, or gender when they weren’t? Admittedly there were plenty examples of tokenism as well as writers deciding, “We’re going to talk about this social issue simply because it’s popular right now!” so unfortunately those are not new trends. Each age of comics has its own problems and bad trends. I just feel, “Older comics dealt with social issues too,” isn’t an end-all, be-all argument. There’s more nuance and room for discussion. If someone wants to have social issues in a comic, that’s okay as long as it’s handled well and they treat the characters & audience with respect. It’s putting out pretentious trash that most of us are objecting to.

@phoenixifre79

6 ай бұрын

This is the point I was trying to make. That these things aren't new. They were just done well in past instances for much better reasons.

Deconstructed heroes? More like destructed heroes.

Everyone I know personally doesn’t give a f about comics and haven’t read one before in their life, all of them have seen a marvel or dc movie and enjoyed it, none of them have any desire to read a comic book and none of them know anything about the comic books. Quite a few of them have watched a movie and read the corresponding book but none of them consider doing that with superhero stuff why is that?

is it not the case that literary deconstruction is an academic term? Do our institutions of higher learning have a bias in terms of the "culture war"? It's like he's saying we're not woke, we're just writing using a woke filter.

You there’s a major issue when Wes dropped two major F bombs in the video. Because if DC and Marvel are failing then everyone else will follow suit. This all started when BMB made Iceman gay and then it snowed ball for the last few years. These writers and editors know that these changes are hurting the mom and pops shops. The fans already said that we don’t want these force changes on established characters. The second issue is that the creative teams are just rude to the fans on social media. But the characters don’t sound like themselves and they are too broken by these writers. IE Batman by Chip..who can tell a good street level story when he has someone standing over him while he writes.

I have been reading comics for almost 51 years, since 1973. In my many years of reading I have read back issues from the 40’s through the early 70’s giving me a dabble of series and companies owned characters. Of 80 plus years of reading. And facts are the comics of the last 8 to 10 years are complete garbage. They are not written for the long time comic fans, but ARE INFACT written for the writers themselves and to push their beliefs and lifestyles onto the more influential fans. They want to “ for some reasons “ implant the idea of being gay, trans or pronoun positive is the only way you should be. That any other though process is bad, hateful, bigoted and evil. They must entice younger or confused children or teens to build their numbers do they “ the writers” are not a super cell minority, but they gave a realized army and followers to make themselves feel better about themselves. I hope that this year marks either the end of this woke movement or the complete end of the American comic book market. It took 70 years to prove Dr Fredric Wertham right. The perversion that exists in the comics today are ruining the American comic book market.

The woke crap is causing a lot of the problems. It's a vicious circle. What came first? The chicken or the egg? Cheap subpar writers & artists that obsess about woke bullet points or wokeness leading to needing evermore crappy quality and business practices (like crossover spam?) I have no interest in all this preachy politically correct nonsense and bad art for high prices. So I stopped buying most comics. Dipping back in only once in a while to pick up a tpb or collection of stuff that interests me. I suspect i'm not alone in this position...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Watch Critical Drinker -- it's what he calls pushing "The Message" above everything, that is destroying the entertainment industry overall. But I would also add that prices for comics are outrageous. Books cost $4.99 to $9.99. If I only buy 4 per week I'm out $20 plus tax at a minimum. Plus both of my local stores don't even have a $1 bin. If they want fans to buy more books then they have to cut the prices even if that means paying the creative teams less or cutting the quality of the paper/production.

The people on both sides of the "culture war" love their politics more than comics. Saying "everything sucks" is a lie. Saying "everything is great" is a lie. There's good and bad comics in every era. The biggest problem in this era is a group of fans and creators who have turned the business of comic books into just another battle in the culture war. Both sides are more responsible for the demise of American superhero comic books than any of the issues that either side try to address. If you're argument is that "quality" is down, you're not going to an LCS each week. Channels like this prop up the worst examples of what is out to fire salvos at creators/publishers in the culture war. The goal is to forward the narrative that comic books are dying and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being right about this is more important to these channels than reporting what's really on the shelves. I'm not denying the group of creators who seem to be anti-fan and trying to push their politics into mainstream books exist or have an agenda. If you disagree with them, don't support them. However, when you boycott EVERYTHING over a few bad apples, the entire industry suffers and that's where we are. There's a lot of great books out right now that never get covered on channels like this. When you say everything is bad all of the time, many of your 35 thousand subscribers take it as gospel and they don't go to their LCS. Everybody suffers---good and bad. American Superhero comic books are currently a hostage in the culture war and nothing gets better until both sides make peace for the good of comics. In the meantime, one side tortures the hostage while the other side seeks to starve it.

@BiggieTrismegistus

6 ай бұрын

Or the problem is that people like you with carefully manufactured "above it all" attitudes simply refuse to acknowledge the problems with the industry because that would conflict with your fake cultivated "moderation". Pretending this is some kind of "culture war" issue ignores the actual "cultures" involved. I am absolutely pissed off with the pathetic state of Marvel and DC. That's becuase I love Trump, right? MAGA! No. I'm a liberal who has voted for Democrats my whole life. Marvel and DC have a "bad writing" problem but ignoring the ideological reason so much bad writing is getting published doesn't do anyone any good.

THANK YOU!!

Awesome work mate

Another big reason the industry is in such dire straights is how terribly these characters are being managed. A good example is the latest Ghost Rider Series. It's ending this month to make way for a female GR and I'm asking why do we need this? It's stupid shit like this that makes my blood boil as a long time comics reader. I just don't get these stupid ideas.

Since Disneyl and Warner are not really interrested in the Comics themselves anymore beside of produce them as cheap as possible, Editors and Writers just do what they want with the stories. And the woke stuff is the simplest way to gain some attention in the media as well as the stupid FanFic selfinsert BS is the simplest way to write a story for a lot of the insecure and life experience lacking writers.

Stop selling and buying the comics, and they'll disappear soon enough. Oh, but there's a new #1, with a holographic alternate cover featuring the Hulk / Superman / the Creeper in drag! I'm sure it will be collectible!

Getting tired of being told when we can and can’t officially acknowledge problems and deflective lies. …and that “bad actor” seems to be more successful than the mid 2 “talent” that have contributed to the fall of western comics.

I feel for you You are reviewing comic books You are doing an autopsy at the morgue

How much crap can hit the fan before it stops working?

To the point about a single issue telling one whole story - or at least feeling like a proper, semi-contained chapter of one; it's especially crazy when you consider that so many early comics had MULTIPLE stories per issue, hell 'book-long story' was a selling point, something to be touted on the cover. Writers like stan lee were fucking good at it, too, coming out of those anthology titles... They have a delineated character, a beginning middle and end, a thesis, and sometimes or often a cool, cruel, or ironic twist. Hell that's why the first Spider-man story feels like a whole unto itself, which is a big part of why the character works and is beloved; most of the quintessential elements were there, waiting to be expanded upon - but if they never had been, it would be a great little story. It takes some effort though, you can't just make it up as you go along then. A lot of writers these days who are too lazy to sweat the plot of what they write will hide under the pretentious 'it's not about plot it's about the characters' bullshit; well the best stuff has both. And time-testedly? it tends to sell. TV has gotten the same way though, with streaming and binging being things. I would say that even in the context of a TPB, or binging a show, having plot-threads that can get tied up in one episode, having smaller side-stories and arcs that dovetail with each other, having cliffhangers that make sense and aren't just bait-y... it's all still welcome and makes stories better, no matter how you're digesting it. Even if I were writing a novel, I think I'd try to find a way to make each chapter feel like there's a reason that that's a 'chapter', not feel like it just arbitrarily starts and ends now and again

So having a difference of opinion means we should be ignored and shunned? 🤦‍♂️

It's going to take a lot of work and an actual messianic figure to fix this industry, the Big Two in particular.

Watch the Timcast episode which had Ethan Van Sciver on it. He expains it perfectly what's happening to ruin comics. Great listen

Read something else. Read a book that doesn't have pictures in it. Plenty of options out there.

> but the only reason that he wrote it was for culture War purposes ... isn't war supposed to be the last resort after propositions, discussions, offers, examinations, dialogue and diplomacy have failed? After decades of the real Alan Scott, Hal Jordan and Guy Gardner, there's no culture war over John Stewart. (I mean, I hate the fact they retconned him from an architect to a boo-yah marine who'd studied architecture, but.)

It's almost a cult at this point.

Personally, as someone who only seriously started reading and collecting a few months ago, the main reason why I don't buy (modern) comics is because of story quality and the $4-5 price tag. My favorite characters are Batman and Catwoman; their stories are atrocious atm. I spent around a thousand on older stuff instead. Better quality earns my dollar.

I collected comics for 30+ years but I stopped collecting a few years ago mainly because of all the woke crap ruining already established characters. Anecdotal? Perhaps. But I have a feeling I am one of many. Whoever distributes the books is irrelevant. I read comics for the story and characters and was wasting my money on piss poor quality, so I dropped everything. Selling all my CGC books now and not looking back. The whole industry is a sinking ship with no one to blame but themselves. Good riddance.

Back on the Wes bandwagon? I never left.

Whenever I hear the name Brian Michael Bendis I hear “Hail Hydra”

Ah Bendis, the destroyer of worlds! Anything under his run should be immediately retconned out of existence!

I think Portland is the wokest city in the U.S., but several cities in California are likely in a dead heat for 2nd wokest

This article is more disrespect. He's talking to the audience in "Pimp" talk. "Who are you going to believe? ME,or your lying eyes?" They openly admit trying to "queer up" everything they can.

Hibbs is a jagoff.

been reading Batman the legends of the dark knight...dont know how it went under the radar ...absolutely loving it❤ has no messaging its simply bruce being batman, very dark, violent and feels right for a story about the worlds finest detective

@TT-fq7pl

6 ай бұрын

Very dark and violent IS a message too. North American culture is very sentimental about violence. I find all the "edgy" darkness just as fatiguing and boring as the politics.

All facts!😊👍

I don't even know what new is coming out this year that would be of interest at all. Only thing I ordered was the new Image Transformers tradepaperback. Just nice to have it all in one book . . . but anyway. But till they are about to be out of business maybe then they might buy a clue as to why comics are not selling. Here's a thought on Jon Kent aka Superman that may have made that story . . .more compelling. Make his pink-haired boyfriend the villian. I vaguely remember Wes covering an issue that shows pink-hair being in league with some unsavory folks and well. . .make him the villain where he's trying to trap Jon in relationship by gaslighting him and doing some sort of evil. But that would take some real creative writing.

SOON just really freaking soon everyone will get so sick of the woke agendas that this will be band. just give or take maybe 10 maybe 5 years.

Publishing the low-quality creative work of divisive social and political advocates because the publishers have an endless need for more cheap content to get the shops to order 2 copies of 25 books because nobody's ordering 50 copies of any one book not only appears to be woke, but it's a toxic publishing strategy. It appears woke because it looks like the publishers are alienating readers and killing the shops for the sake of messaging. In reality it's worse than that because they're just hustling the advocacy of their creatives to fill the shelves and hit revenue targets.

If shops are already worried about quarter one the March solicits for Marvel don't look like they will help

Brian Hibbs is the last person I am going to take seriously on about any subject matter any more. The totality of his existence is continually what is wrong, hence the title of this column Tilting At Windmills. Of course being from San Francisco he is not going to say any of the cultural changes in the characters is the problem. If he did I think that might actually break the internet. All aspects of media are considered for influencing the culture by those on the left who want to undermine Western Civilization because some how some way...they know better. So yes comics are fair game no matter how many people they reach. It's just asinine to try and pretend otherwise. And the difference between them and an Alan Moore or a Frank Miller is that Moore and Miller actually gave a damn about the heroes and what they stood for. So in the deconstruction of them we'd see them at their most emotionally raw, but in the end we always saw that they were heroes through and through. And that they battled their insecurities, doubts, and failures to always live up to what they knew in their core defined them. WTF20.

I don't understand why we are still playing this stupid game of waiting for them to admit that the problem is strictly ideological. I don't even want to hear this "woke propaganda isn't the only problem", of course comics don't just have one problem but many that have existed long before and that haven't stopped readers from reading.

If this is a culture war then it is necessary that you act like a warrior. And how does a warrior act ? A warrior acts with vigilance, discipline and forward thinking. If we are in culture war we have to fight on a cultural level with the means to influence or producing culture, since this is our weapon. So we have to use our resources in a vigilant disciplined manner with a forward oriented goal of pushing our culture and not that of the enemy. And we do this by only disciplined support or buycott of our cultural products, and by evading to support the enemy and their products. Marvel and DC are the ground of the enemy and their products are their weapons against us and every comics bought from them is giving them ammunition, no matter if the agenda is visible or hidden or even not there. So buy CG, indipendent, european comics or manga and do not buy DC or Marvel, if you are in this cultur war.

The culture war is a big part of it. I see Marvel and DC comics as just propaganda now. If there are some good stories in the rubble of identity politics, why would I go out on a limb and risk spending money in trying to find them? Manga would be a surer bet, and they can be read for free online. With regard to comic book shops closing, I think the medium is also a factor. I'm an avid non-fiction reader, but I read everything on Kindle. The few comic books I've bought (and regretted buying) are also on Kindle / Comixology. I no longer buy physical media and I think neither do a large number of people these days.

All this narrative pushing is indeed part of the problem. Another problem is just plain bad writing. The two together are a recipe for disaster. Some people are tired of these talks? Well, the truth hurts. Until Marvel & DC realize and address these problems, the industry will continue to snowball down into their own obliteration.

The WOKE infection isn't just killing the comic industry, it is stifling creativity. So, people are shifting to reading Manga! Though attempts to infiltrate Manga by the representatives who have to get the "Message" out there have so far come to nought. For myself, I was a big reader of Marvel Comics. Got some DC stuff when I could. What my younger relatives report back to me is that the "WOKENESS" in alot of material from both comic companies. Manga is an outlet that is mainly free to enjoy without a political agenda getting in the way!

I don’t believe culture war is the primary reason for the decline in sales. I think the problem is the monthly periodical model that is the problem. Hardly anybody I know that reads comics reads them as singles. Most readers read collected editions or subscription apps. The value simply isn’t there for single issues. It is a dying format kept on life support by collectors and people who want the newest stories.

Funny, the independents have great writers, pencilers, colorists and letterers and their respective products that are not pushing intersectional politics and attempts at subversion. Meanwhile, DC and Marvel are dropping tumbleweeds, destroying their respective Intellectual Properties. Chief Management on down to the creative teams need to go away in DC and Marvel and hopefully positive changes will ensue. Paying customer trust in the respective products from DC and Marvel is at ever decreasing lows. DC and Marvel products just don’t hold my interest, anymore. Not even Alien titles… What would be interesting to see is the numbers of pirated comics over actual sales, and whether those numbers changed when the culture wars took over DC and Marvel. Millarverse “Big Game” was very well worth the read, though I am hoping to see far more with the character, Nemesis. Looking forward to more Cyber Frog and AlphaCore and other All Caps and Rippaverse titles, respectively.

Good morning, America! I adore the old American culture and values. I'm still a big fan of the American dream, which not many Americans believe in our days. The Western culture is occupied by self-hate, radical feminism, LGBT agenda, and all the other anti-America agendas. You can see the influence everywhere - in music, films, and comic books. This is also what also happened to the Roman empire on it's last years, until they occupied in he 4th century.

The culture war and wokeness most definitely hurt comics. How many straight white characters were made gay, race swapped, gender swapped, or the comics will just always depict straight white men as villains. Most comic book readers are and have always been straight white dudes. Dudes like me who wanted bad ass heroes and hot chicks in these books. I find it funny how many red heads have been swapped. There are actually less redheads than black people. For some reason, hair color is not something seen as making someone a minority.

@bujindork

Ай бұрын

Because the future of the US is a minority majority and more tolerant. Businesses look to the future since older readers are always going to be a dying base. They want to court the young. It comes with growing pains but is usually the smart strategy.

@barelymanilow7079

Ай бұрын

@bujindork More tolerant? I don't see that. Seems all groups are kind of dog-piling on straight white dudes right now. Asians are being attacked by black dudes for no reason. I don't see much tolerance. Actually, more homogeneous societies seem to have fewer issues. It's not PC to admit this though.

Lore of Nobody Can Discredit Culture War Issues In Comics momentum 100

It's been almost 20 years since I slung comics for a living, but one thing I remember from back then is that comic sales are counter-cyclical. When the economy is down, comic sales actually go up because it's an inexpensive entertainment medium compared to most everything else. If the industry is crashing, it isn't due to the economic downturn. It's the quality of the books, and a part of that is clearly Leftist agenda-pushing. If your purpose is to convince people to think or believe a certain way AND you're kind of a hack writer, the plots will suffer, and more importantly, the characters will suffer. If the characters aren't written well and consistently, a reader will stop caring about anything that happens to them and will drop the book.

I make comics with better art and stories than Marvel and DC ever had in their best years. You're one click away from finding out if I'm right or wrong about that.

It's getting to the point where I honestly would rather the Nazis these people are afraid ACTUALLY run the comics industry. Goodness knows the books would at least come out on time! And I'd be willing to bet they'd even write minority characters better!