Chaos is like Kylo Ren. You're hyped for Darth Vader and they do pull some seemingly impressive feats, only for the antagonist to do repeated stupid mistakes because of their character, and completely crumble whenever it actually counts because the writers can't think of a way for the heroes to win, but really need them to. The traitor primarchs take this up to eleven: they are repeatedly depicted very formidable personally, but the same characteristics that made them fall also makes them the B-team. One of the writers even has Horus lampshade this. Angron and Fulgrim are just the extreme examples. The only one who remains competent is Lorgar, because he was always intended as a corrupting influence. But in a way it's also a failure of writing the heroes as heroic: The antagonists are tragic and characterized and self-defeating, for plot convenience if nothing else, and the heroes are just the opposition against which the villain can more of less tragically collapse.

@Grubnar

5 ай бұрын

"One of the writers even has Horus lampshade this." Are you referring to the "Why did I get all the broken ones?" line?

I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor.

@roninwolf3347

11 ай бұрын

You mean sanguinius

@mpnuorva

11 ай бұрын

@@roninwolf3347 I think he means the guy from Horus Rising.

@jedthementalist5112

11 ай бұрын

❌️ I'm there right now.... Horus!! ❌️

@Sevatar_VIIIth

11 ай бұрын

No chance Horus could beat the Emperor one on one, certainly not after fighting Sanguinius. Idc how many chaos god power amps he's given.

@RosarioAFK

11 ай бұрын

It's a quote from the first Horus Heresy book Horus Rising. It's definitely worth the read/listen.

I'm a veteran of the eye of terror campaign ☺️. The chaos victory was more complicated than mere numbers of game results thrown at the internet. There were a select number of tournaments and in store campaigns that offered global boons to the scoring for a set period. Games played in store also counted more. Bfg campaigns also had different effects on the campaign (epic not so much). To cut a long story short, the boons could be used at the winners discretion, the chaos players used them during key tournament and campaign ends bolstering the wins to take the victory they otherwise wouldn't have. It must also be noted that it wasn't just chaos and imperials, every faction took a side, Eldar were on the imperial side and won the battle fleet gothic boons for Imps. At the time this was written in the lore as eldrad killing a blackstone fortress (the one that has been retconed as the death of cadia instead🙃). This was a crazy time, there were so many 'relatively' new factions, like sob and greyknights. Tau had their own stand alone campaign, but no one cared! 😄

@brassviking486

11 ай бұрын

My main memory was the imperials focusing on Cadia and not the wider war so the other factions were effectively able to blockade them on the planet.

@Raygun9000

11 ай бұрын

@@brassviking486 well, you could choose where your victories were. There were many worlds/systems on offer and they had public results. Chaos failed a heck of a lot, but as it was 'their' offensive they could pick the critical worlds to go after. A pretty mental advantage for a campaign! I was at a seminar shortly after with Andy Chambers. There were many hobbyists on both sides that didn't understand what had happened. Chaos were clearly losing on the website but the chaos boons were mainly played in the last week to buff the in store campaigns and weighted tournaments. So if you didn't visit the website on the last week you'd suspect gw shenanigans.

@mpnuorva

11 ай бұрын

Did the imperials win BFG side of the campaing? I remember reading something like Chaos winning the land war but losing the space war and getting caught to neat exterminatus-sized pockets.

@Raygun9000

11 ай бұрын

@@mpnuorva the imperial side definitely won in space. Bfg isn't particularly balanced for new players playing the xenos fleets. Orks(chaos side) were an almost guaranteed loss, if they were an experienced player it was still tough. Dark Eldar(chaos side) were a one trick pony, they seemed to lose a lot. Tau(imp) were pretty strong, Eldar(imp) were really strong but had a steep learning curve. I think nids counted as chaos, their fleet was really hard to get your head around, I never saw nid players though(just me). You had spacemarines(Imp) as well. I think they're pretty middling but versus new players they can be pretty scary.

@Raygun9000

11 ай бұрын

There were Necrons as well. Utterly unbalanced in campaigns due to their victory point rules. I'm not sure if they were on the chaos side... They were boring to play in campaigns, I think most might've used a chaos or IN fleet to play.

I will push back a bit on the Thousand sons and grey knight fight. Totally admit I should read this one, but I would be curious as to how easy it was. A thousand sons sorcerer is an ancient astartes with magic untethered and unleashed and at its maximum(with great risk). Grey knights, still being powerful psykers still have boundries. Anti-chaos or not, whoever has the ability to overwhelm in sheer warp force wins. If it was a potent Thousand sons sorcerer, sure why not. Totally feasable. If it was an aspiring sorcerer/lower tier than I can see the grey knights having the upper hand.

@nightside100

11 ай бұрын

The grey knights are anti demon, not anti psyker. They where fighting a dude who has been a practicing scorcerer before they where probably even conceived. Im gonna be a cheeky fella and say they did pretty well given their handicap.

Yeah the only “gains” from the Great Rift that we were really given as chaos players were vague references to chaos lords building pocket empires in Imperium Nihilus, not the massive consolidation of conquered planets and resources that Abaddon should have.

Hi North just re-read the night lords trilogy, and think you got a couple things wrong about the night lords VS the Genesis chapter in Void Stalker. It was only a company of the Genesis chapter and a single cruiser that engaged the night lords on tsagualsa, with under 100 marines (not all were committed to the boarding action) engaged against Talos' 80+ strong warband. Also, Xarl was effectively Company champion for the 10th company, so his duel with the Genesis champion help much more parity of force.

Chaos needs to be a serious threat, not some moustache twirling villian that will run away to fight another day. I agree, give them a chunk of the galaxy what the Imperium must fight to retake. I just think that at this moment, they just fall short

They were led by a guy called Horus Heresy. The Emperor knew he was gonna do wrong from the moment he named him.

A few points: The champion you mention in the Night Lords books isn't described as being in Terminator armour. He is described as bearing the Crux Terminatus on his shoulder pad. Someone as familiar with the lore as yourself will recognise that this is a relatively common addition to even power armoured officers. As for the chapter being wiped out by the Night Lords, when does that happen? I can think of two likely candidates. If you're referring to the story that I think you are, that was an understrength company, not the entire chapter. If it's the other one, that's a large proportion of the Red Corsairs attacking a single company on their homeworld. Criticise things as you see fit but please, please reread the stuff you want to criticise. It may not be as you remember it.

@knightofcaliban146

11 ай бұрын

Even if Tolemion had terminator armor, it would still be believable that Xarl, a veteran of the long war, and the champion of First Claw would be able to take him down. Xarl is over 10,000 years old, and has been fighting constantly. Most of that fighting was in melee, by the way. Also, it is completely believable that the Night Lords along with the Red Corsairs would be able to defeat a local garrison of space marines, especially considering the fact that the traitors had the drop on them.

Northern Exile is right. There should be less Saturday morning cartoon shenanigans with the writing for Chaos.

Some interesting takeaways from that online campaign: 1. Ork players were some of the most organized teams and made some massive gains in specific planets. 2. Tau players were solely fighting within their systems so they did well too.

As a Word Bearers fan/player. I am just waiting for our genefather Lorgar to return. Since Guilliman read his book. Makes me wonder how their next meeting will go down.

Personally I think Tyranids should be the main antagonist as, albeit horrific, still a physical force and chaos should be upgraded to a antediluvian, Lovecraftian levels of world bending horror that is more of a force of nature, an antithesis of what's natural even, and less mustache twirling bad guys.

Small corrections and addendums to the video. - Abbadon only fought Sigusmund once during the book "Black Legion" at the onset of the first black crusade, during the book "Saturnine" Abbadon fights Nathaniel Garro, a blood angel captain, a world eater leading the blackshields on terra (by this point Abbadon is a wreck) and is saved by teleport from Nathaniel Garro's killing blow. The teleporting WITHIN the imperial palace was entirely possible, say teleporting Abbadon away from the Imperial Dungeon into a Termite drill underneath the battlefield. Teleporting from outside the Aegis (the void shied surrounding the Imperial palace) INTO the palace, and vice versa, was not possible. It is still a narratively weak ending to what was otherwise a well written scene. -For those who read "Black Legion" and are confused by the mention Khayon fighting Grey Knights, this is because it wasn't in "Black Legion" but a short story called " a Flash of Silver" included in the limited edition release of the "Black Legion book".The underselling of the Grey Knights in the story is not an exaggeration. -In the books "Emperors Spears" and "Darkness in the Blood" it is made clear that the Imperium is considering abandoning Imperium Nihlus entirely as it's to difficult to reinforce and travel in, with forces joining up with the blood angels being the ones making the difference as (somehow) the Sanguinor guides their ships. Any other fleet can't maintain cohesion while traveling in the warp meaning that intercepting a chaos fleet is impossible as the loyalists would arrive piecemeal. This is not presented well in the overall narrative however so Exile's criticism stands.

I love the idea of Chaos being the one who actually starts to deal with major threats like the Tyranids, as it could seriously undercut the Imperium's rule by making them look more effective than the Imperium. I also love the idea of Abaddon's secular empire. That being said, Chaos rarely makes big gains because its very nature is one of conflict. There will never be a true united front as Chaos just doesn't act like that. Every time, as soon as Chaos has won a big battle, such as at Cadia, the infighting starts. That's just the nature of Chaos, stability is very hard to achieve under it.

@mpnuorva

11 ай бұрын

Also makes the galaxy look like there are multiple factions when everything doesn't just revolve around the Imperium.

Ultimately, it GW's fatal writing flaw. Everyone's playing in the same sandbox, but there's no coordination and not everyone's playing with the same rules, and no one wants to tread on someone else's toes or "vision". You're right that stakes and scales don't mean jack. I think there needs to a central "referee" or "arbiter" to go over the books and coordinate so that shit actually makes sense in relation to each other (rather than barely being internally consistent novel to novel) and rather than being a bit of dumb patchwork, there's an actual tapestry as to how it all hangs together.

Bro, it’s funny to me hearing people say that chaos should be the biggest threat in 40K. As someone that was in the hobby before the Horus Heresy book series came out… it really shouldn’t. Chaos constantly get free magic re-enforcements case an point we know how gruelling the implantation process for marines are and how it takes years to slowly work. How do legions like the world eaters get any new recruits. They have constant violent outbursts and barely have any sort of strategy or coherency + a bunch of butchers nails in their heads. Are you telling me those guys have been able to maintain a doctorate program for medically training squishy humans in order for them to learn enough biology to put more gen-seed and create the careful diets and implant more butchers nails into kids that are going to , at best, turn into more psychotic killers that are going to perpetuate this cycle 🔁 😂 ?

Oh I will never forget the 13th Black Crusade went or how in Warhammer fantasy major chaos invasion campaign went till a certain Black Orc headbutted the chosen of chaos and that was the narrative regardless of actual campaign results...Chaos gets the short end of the stick 30+ years now.

100% YES. Jobbers, undivided is by far the worse represented in modern 40k. You have cool legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Alpha legion, Word Bearers and they get bugger all and just balled into black legion in the current lore and stories. Its a crime tabletop wise they were in the gutter from 4th - 9th. I havent played 10th so cant comment on their current position. That codex 3.5 was perfect

Chaos could in no way afford to lose Mortarion at the siege. The siege to begin with started with bad odds for the traitors as they didn't have the proper numbers to siege an entrenched enemy. And even with those numbers the World Eaters and Emperors Children are disorganised with the EC later quitting the siege and Angron getting mauled. The Word Bearers and Nightlords are barely present. The Sons of Horus don't have their primarch who is sitting back in the vengeful spirit. Leaving only the Iron Warriors and Death Guard to properly siege the Palace. With the Iron warriors quitting the siege Mortarion is invaluable, the Khan would be a small cost to remove him in the grand scheme.

This reminds me of what I read in Betrayer when Angron and Fenris fought. Angron insist he was victor because he had the Wolf at his mercy man-to-man. Fenris insisted he had won because he had Angron dead to rights later surrounded by his sons in all directions. In that respect....I think North wants Chaos to have more victories the way Fenris did on that field. I think the larger issue is that the CSM can co-exist with factions like Chaos Deamons, which are just as if not far more vaster in power in scope when it comes to the greater conflict. Aye the Cadians didn't break before the planet did....but they where facing demons coming at them at that point from every angle, like somebody had read the Necronomicon all over the worlds surface and anything living or dead was fair game. This is why you can't give CSM a strong point too close to Imperial borders, the corruption would be too wide spread...Chaos isn't just the CSMs it is the army of cultists, infiltrators and never ending hordes of traitors willing to turn their back on a cruel galaxy for aspirations of power and ambition. I'm behind in the current happenings of 40k myself but I know that someone like Lorgar.....Lorgar I think would be like what Gulliman is to the Imperium for Chaos. When Lorgar returns...that is when the stakes are raised.....as an undying fan of Chaos we simply must simply be patient.

@damianwomack4668

11 ай бұрын

Think you mean Leman Russ bro. Fenris is his home planet

You're talking mad shit for someone within sacrificing distance!

I really appreciate taking a step back and talking about broader issues with the setting. I'll pull this back another step and say this: The writers seem to have this idea in their head that since Space Marines are already often bad guys in their own right, chaos space marines need to be a parody of that and be cartoonishly evil. The actual design studio in Nottingham has, and to this day refuses to fully acknowledge their own writers over at Black Library and the corresponding message that _yes, chaos can be played straight._ They're just too insulated over there from everything happening in the hobby and this has a trickle down effect of getting people to disengage with the hobby. They may be filling the bucket faster than ever, but why in god's name must they poke so many extra holes in the bottom??

Good take, I think the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors and the Thousand Sons could and should run entire interstellar kingdoms within realspace and warp.

The detail that bothers me the most is the total disregard for the Word Bearers... They are the most organised legion in the chaos roaster - the last one in regards to the heresy era - and they are chaos fanatics, true believers. Erebus and Lorgar started the heresy (yes, they did). They are the "true vilains" of the setting, if you have to pick one. If the lore was coerrent, they should have been building a small dark empire by this time. So much potential storie wise : power struggl with abbadon, what a conversion to chaos looks like (like a dark response to the conversion by the legion into the religion of the emperor in the heresy)... And wtf is doing Erebus ? The guy is the most hated man in the emperium, a trouble maker at heart, and he's nowhere to be seen. What a waste.

My main issue with Chaos is that, at times, they feel too relatable, or at least that their "evil" is understandable if not outright validated. WHF does this much better. The mortal aspect of Chaos (Warriors, Norsca, etc...) are often depicted with their evil and want to conquer all the world as being their nature. When you grow up in a kill-or-be-killed environment, the Path to Glory and wish to bend all the world to your will is understandable, but also objectively evil. With the Chaos legions of 40k, nearly all the reasons they had to peeling away from the Imperium are reasonable and dare I say tragic. A Chaos Warrior, if asked why he does what he does, will thell you it's because he feels like it and because he can, and then proceed to kick seventeen orpahns into a burning hospital just because it's funny. A traitor Astartes, when asked the same question, will give you some long winded answer about betrayal, a family feud and daddy issues. He might still do the whole orphan kicking bit, but it feels a little different, no? These guys wear spikes and sell their souls to a serial mass murderer, a fat bastard, an overly zealous bookworm or a decrepit raver full of cocaine and STDs. I think trying to give them more justifiable reasons for joining Chaos and basing most of their conflicts on vengeance takes away from their overall enjoyment. I like a fleshed out villain, but I also like a murderous force of nature that will tie your innards into a funny knot just because he feels like it.

I think chaos is best typified as raiders, terrorists, insurrectionist opposing forces and leaders of rebel states/systems and sectors. The most bad assed spikey guys and all their warp sodomy isn’t going to stop a couple trillion humans with spears and shields running them down because like loyalists, their ultimately (though the fracturing of their legion command structure combat attrition and most importantly their fractured and infrequent supply lines) have been forced to become “strike forces” And they don’t have a galaxy spanning government to call on for recruits, ammunition and potable water and fuel for their warships. Guilliman shouldn’t be a model on the table, but you pay his points for you to get double shooting and twice the army of the other guy for the same points and the high ground with lots of orbital bombardments.

Love chaos, always have done. But the setting really lacks competent writing. Maybe the traitor legions should move out of the eye of terror? Have some movement on bringing the night lords back together, perturabo finally bringing the iron warriors back to legion strenght. And some tell the alpha legion to actually do something and make a credible threat to the setting again!

I absolutely love the idea of Abbadon forming his own secular empire carved out of imperium Nilous. It really fits his character goals of becoming the dark emperor like emperor Palpatine from Star Wars, plus Chaos needs to evolve past the raider faction into a settled empire that crazy enough seek out other galaxies past the tyranids.

Who’s gonna tell him the Emperor’s geneseed thing is GK cope?

When did a small war-band of Night Lords take out a chapter of loyalists? As a Night Lords player of 27 years…. I feel I should know this

@jamesmacken9501

11 ай бұрын

It didn't it, was a company of loyalists. This is when Xarl would fight a loyalist champion.

The Ghaos gods call it "The Great Game" for a reason. The machinations of these gods cause them to often be at each throats just as much as the imperiums. The very nature of chaos prevents a unified front. Let's be real, Guilliman wild be dead if it weren't for Nurgles garden being attacked by the bird man. One could make a legitimate case that Tzeentch saved Robby G just as much as the emporor....

This video should have been titled "Chaos Space Marines specifically have the WORST lore in 30k and somewhat 40k as well. A Rant."

One Issue with the Dark Imperium, it's better than ever for those worlds now that Terra is technically gone. Just look at what's on the dark side- Iron Hands, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Mordian Iron Guard, Catachan, Cadia Remnants, Ryza, Lucius, Styges. Imperium sanctus is filled with dead weight and having the Chaos Legions try to carve up the dark Imperium is a losing move that just makes the same mistakes from the Horus heresy. The plague wars should have been on Necromungda world's and reclaimed *Cthulhu world for the Black Legion. A major issue with Chaos writing is that all the old power of Chao influence has been reduced to tentacles and blood orgies. They need to play some "Dark Heresy" before falling back on babies on spikes. Disrupting tithes and laughing while loyalist forces destroys another sector for missing tithe shipments is a time honored tactic. I am always a fan of the nurgle blessed roaming tithe auditor that travels from hive world to Agri world. Would you deny access to the auditor and doom an entire sector, Heresy!

i mean it is suggested, and in my head cannon that the chaos gods don't want to win and just to keep the suffering going in perpetuate circles of stupid big chaos win but wait suddenly infighting and betrayal!.

26:33 This is sadly missing in most modern writing. Villains are either the big bad, there solely for the protagonist to defeat or they're portrayed as the 'real victim', blaming everyone else for their BS. I want villains that entertain and give me some inner conflict. Someone I can understand but can't defend... while being iconically badass. This is ESPECIALLY needed in tabletop games, no one wants to play as a wet fart... maybe Nurgle fans. 30:09 😂 Don't worry mate... you don't want to breeze through Boltgun.

It's also one of the pitfalls of writing "immortal" characters, or characters than can return from death. What happens with those characters? They die, repeatedly. 'Oh it's deamon primarchs Magnus, one of the strongest psykers in the... and he is dead again'. We can't have mortal characters die, so they escape or get wounded but the big bad deamon primarchs? Just have them die, not that it matters. Makes the characters seem much weaker. Character development also seems to be gone completely. Like the Horus Heresy didn't just turn the empire into a slowly crumbling stagnated mess but every character, too. I'd love to see development, like maybe Magnus turning renegade (there was a group of 1k sons who tried to negate the contract Magnus made with Tzeentch and return his soul, but that plot went nowhere), or a major chapter turning to chaos or turning away from Chaos. It would mean something interesting happening. But nothing ever does with Chaos....

Just think if GW did the same thing as with the Black Templars with the Primaris marines by taking away all the grim dark. Like having all the loyalist and traitor marines call a truce and fight side by side like friends to fight off the Tyranids. Or even have all the factions of the Xenos join them as well and have none of them betray each other at all. Could see GW doing that making them all seem like friends that team up to fight the big bad mustache twirling villain Tyranids

Really enjoyable vid, thanks. How do I enter the competition for Deathwing Termies again? I remember the short story by William King, must have read it several times. Wouldn't worry about the footage at all. I just enjoy listening and reminiscing while working. Maybe try Chaos Gate or something but you would probably want to edit scenes of that instead of straight forward play and need more time for it as a secondary element. Thanks for your channel from Australia. Really enjoy it and the humour!

the world eaters group i was with had taken medusa at the end of the eye of terror campaign. we had a yahoo group to focus where to fight over. loved it.

Current lore has really just turned the middle finger towards Chaos. Y’all remember how the Alpha Legion were given a prophecy that their actions would either lead Horus to become the new emperor and wipe out humanity or lock the Emperor on the Golden Throne? Yeah, one of the newest Horus Heresy books just turned around and blatantly said “That’s a total fucking lie. If Horus wins he becomes a fifth Chaos God.” Completely making their whole ambiguity utterly pointless.

Oh they don’t win well nobody who wins, at least chaos marines don’t win in style. You can hype up the Tyrnids all day it’s just going to make them look worse when they inevitably fail to destroy the imperium as well.

Awesome video as usual. Have you ever considered uploading the audio in podcast form to Spotify or other platforms? Thank you and keep those videos coming.

Chaos is that bad smell that won't go away. Just there to f!ck up everyones day with no long-term purpose

Being a Chaos Marine player is like living the Lucy/Charlie Brown football skit over and over again.

A: "IM GOING TO MAKE CHAOS GREAT AGAIN!" GW: actually your going to trip on some stairs.

This kinda reminds me how they nuked Warhammer Fantasy Battles. The last edition of it, they kept pushing products and books. I ran tournaments at the time and people were buying so much product. Then over night they nuked the whole world and dropped all support. I would not be surprised if this happens in a few more editions. The end times jacked with the lore of WFB similar to this...... The crappy thing about this is all the consumers they screwed over.

I'd happily settle for getting my VIIIth Legion back and actually be a functional legitimate threat again....

I collect and play chaos, but they are written like 80's cartoon villians.

I fully agree with your assessment. The absolute travesty of plot armour and plot weakness that chaos get at the same time is a true disgrace to the villain that catapulted the setting

Chaos is the best faction lol

Well the Lion beated the crap out of Kurze and his legion Also Vulkan while imprisoned by kurze beat him to a pulp with a broken hammer Those are 2 exemple of loyalit primarch beating chaos primarch

I don't really see a problem with Khayon beating the Grey Knights. He is incredibly powerful , just a step or two below Ahriman I believe. He was also quite beaten up afterwards. I mean fully trained and armored GKs are cool and all but this is a chaos sorcerer who's had at least 10k years plus minus warp shenanigans to hone his skills. If this incredibly powerful chaos character is supposed to get his shit kicked in by 5 bog standard GKs then of course chaos wouldn't be a threat. I think that went kind if against your point. Anyway great video, I want to like 40k chaos but thry just kind of suck. That's why I go a massive AoS/Fantasy collection of chaos and barely any for 40k.

Abadon: "Oi, Fabius, how are comming along with recreating the Primaris Marines? Oh, ok, how about that Custodes geneseed you have in store? No? Well what's the status on Chaos Sisters? Any new Primarch clones? Alright, I'll ask again next millenia."

@jamesmacken9501

11 ай бұрын

They had the whole war of the spider end with Fabius having custodes, Sisters of silence and primaris and not a thing of consequence has occurred. Hopefully his new book will change that...

40k should be in the public domain. PERIOD!

Ooooh, a whole chapter you say? almost as bad as a single chapter taking out a whole craftworld.

Orks have been experiencing this bs always as well. Chaos had their chance at HH and should be left as a minor renegade faction wanting their glory days with the eldar.

Chaos' worst enemy? The Imperial plot armour 1+ invulnerable save of course. Unless GW wanna AoS 40k, Chaos is always going to fail.

Chaos should have killed off the Imperium as a power structure as it exists in current lore and probably should have won the Heresy with how easily for the most part they just seemed to steam rolled anything the Imperium had. Not a fan of Chaos, have an Army of Dark Angels that I started off with but from my perspective from what I've read/heard Chaos should be the dominate force with remnants of the Imperium attempting multiple crusades to defend and maybe some offensive moves.

GW writes chaos like they are skeletor. Incompetent and goofy.

No

every time chaos win a primarch return

North, I can confirm, this is Deathguard Approved.

Iron Within...

Honestly, didn't notice You are bad at Boltgun.

Heh, North mentioned my comment.

This damn flying woman 😂

nah, nids are objectively worse in every way. Nids are not even a real faction.

Love your content and i love traitors but the loyalists are better. Guilliman beat a buffed up lorgar and held his own against lorgar and angron, magnus was beaten by vulcan and russ even if he didnt use his powers against russ thats him being dumb, Jaghatai beat a demon Primarch mortarion not just a regular primarch, sanguinius beat the deamon primarch of war and aggression angron, dorn beat deamon primarch fulgrim in my opinion the dueling primarch, pertuabo was out thought by a fucking space marine, leman russ beat horus powered up the horus that beats the emperor, manus only lost because fulgrim had chaos backing him im the layer blade, angron is beaten constantly, choas was written terribly in the horus heresy they were the under dogs there was no chance they could win even with the 2 lost primarchs.

@jamesmacken9501

11 ай бұрын

Manus lost to Fulgrim with no laer blade in his inner sanctum and Dorn admits that if Fulgrim was actually trying and not messing around he would have lost and the Emperors Children would have taken the wall.

@john12644

11 ай бұрын

@@jamesmacken9501 i thought manus only lost because he broke fire brand and it knocked them out but the laer blade made fulgrim recover faster and oh yeah but i mean thats an even worse reason to lose but thats how alot of slaanesh is I think. Just give up when you get bored look for the next high.

@jamesmacken9501

11 ай бұрын

@@john12644 The laer blade wasn't present for the first Manus fight but Fulgrim was the first to recover from the explosion and instead of killing Ferrus he chose to knock him out with his hammer. I think Fulgrim is terribly handled as a character after the book Fulgrim, Dorn fight included. He's just seems to stand there and take hits and then leaves. The writers do my Boi dirty and I gotta grasp at what little is given. But I do agree with your overall point, the traitors had no chance even with demons and the likes. The numbers to begin with weren't on their side to siege an entrenched enemy and with the forces they did have at Terra: The word bearers and nightlords were barely present, the Emperors Children and world eaters were too unreliable and the sons of Horus didn't have their primarch to rely on. Leaving the Death guard and iron warriors to properly siege the palace but Perturabo leaves part way and Mortarion is banished. They never had a chance and they had even less of one as time went on.

@john12644

11 ай бұрын

@@jamesmacken9501 i feel you on the fulgrim thing man. I'm always jumping to his defense i just felt like he was handled terribly and the mirror was a good concept they ruined. But im excited for the range to come out this edition its been a long time coming.

@jamesmacken9501

11 ай бұрын

@@john12644 Updated noise marines will be fun to see.

*sips Eldar tea* First time being abused by the lore huh?

I truly feel Chaos is currently in a better place in Age of Sigmar at the moment. Aside from the Archeon stuff (because he is basically Abbadon) I think the Chaos God factions have their feet firmly in the ground when it comes to how chaos should act, and play, and both win and lose in lore.

For a channel that advocates mental health and well being i have seen nothing that helps people. Just North ranting and talking about people's bad encounters for entertainment.

@northernexile

11 ай бұрын

Then I suggest you watch more videos. Including one just 10 days ago talking about support for people with mental health issues. Please engage with the content properly before you talk, I'm replying because you comment a lot and have good things to say (even if its against me) but this is just nonsense. What you have said here is literally, empirically, untrue. One look at my uploads will show you that.

@filteredjc4653

11 ай бұрын

North's channel has helped me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

@joshjonson2368

11 ай бұрын

It's call therapy session and medication, which you clearly aren't taking enough of, seriously tho nobody cares about men's mental health so it's over before it began

As someone with an Emperor's Children tattoo on my head I couldn't agree with you more👹

Huron Blackheart has more of an empire than Abaddon.

Eye of terror results were likely legit chaos dex was bonkers broke back then

@northernexile

11 ай бұрын

It was but the sheer amount being logged was kind of obscene xD

Sorry dude but you're wrong about lots of these examples. Talks and the night lords didn't wipe out the space marine chapter, the majority of the chapter was drawn away from the planet by a series of attacks on out lying systems and trade routes. Then, all the night lords did was take down the shield generators so the res corsairs could teleport in and do the heavy lifting.