Good video. Love the entire CTT series.

A god could end all these questions by simply showing up, and "telling it like it is" to everyone.

@KalCraig

4 жыл бұрын

What would that look like?

@manaoharsam4211

4 жыл бұрын

But then the game will be over. Even if it did happen you might conclude you are hallucinating . We humans have lost we used to have as babies.

@melroycorrea7720

4 жыл бұрын

@zempath My take on it.... God's plan of salvation is not about getting all the answers as much as becoming a person who loves as Christ loves. As Jack pointed out, if becoming human was all about knowing, all he had to do was to 'show up'. But this leaves no room for a relationship based on faith and trust, and consequently, it leaves no room for love. And, so it was fitting, that when God came in Jesus Christ, he did not come in his divine glory to overwhelm us with his power and knowledge, but he came in the weakness of the human flesh, to teach us to love, despite all the suffering we have to undergo.

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@@melroycorrea7720 Hey Melroy... I agree. If I had all the answers about God's nature, I would be god! I like your statement "he came in the weakness of the human flesh." Only Jesus the Christ was a god who showed such love.

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@zempath I don't personally want to know all the answers. So there is no need for Jesus the Christ "to skip the crucifixion thing." The curse of the cross, ironically, is what points to the answers.

Thanks for this video. I had strayed from philosophical thought which brought me much joy many years ago. Watching this felt a bit like coming home.

I swear every question that came on my mind was tackled in these episodes. Must watch

Great upload! Thank you.

All futures are possible in free will. God knows all futures.

@frankmoser6251

4 жыл бұрын

To anyone who believes in "free will" I'd simply ask "can you name ONE thing that doesn't happen for a reason?" ...... If it EVER happens that there IS an actual "genuine" action it would probably be because it's the last one EVER....as in the final "act" that wipes everything out of existence just as the original genuine "act" that brought everything INTO existence......HOWEVER if you REALLY ask yourself then THESE things happen for a reason TOO.....William Shakespeare once asked "to be or NOT to be?" ..... The fact that we are here NOW means "to be" the question was ALWAYS "to be" ( it was inevitable TRUTH) .....because if NOT "to be" then it would ALWAYS have been "NEVER WAS" and NOTHING would EVER be nor EVER been......lol

@AmitKumar-uu4ni

3 жыл бұрын

Why we need reasons for everything, existence has no reasons to be,it's simply exist,it's we who want reasons.

Defining the term free will is a thorny problem. But God's foreknowledge doesn't change anything. If I sit on a hill with a telescope, and see that you are going to find an Easter egg in a few minutes, and knowing you I'm certain you will eat it, does that make you less free than if I were not observing?

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

only if you use your knowledge to interfere with the persons free will choice which God does.

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

JDC the problem is you don’t know with absolute certainty. It could be that the person you see in the telescope will have a heart attack, also he could not eat it. So...what now?

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

Every action cause equal and opposite reactions, so yes, you influence and you are influenced by observation alone.

It's best to define "to know" before any serious discussion happens. This is because the discussion will always boiled down to what does "to know" actually means. The best definition I found was, "to ascertain the truth of something with the senses and or mind." In other words, it has to be truth AND must be obtained through the senses and or mind. The problem though is proving something is true. How do you prove that God knows the future (instead of prediction based off information). Because a prediction based off limited information is not actually knowing.

Can God's foreknowledge survive freewill? I don't think it can

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

Martyr4JesusTheChrist Can gods foreknowledge survive freewill? Just answer yes or no.

@KalCraig

4 жыл бұрын

@James Burkhardt I've watched Sam Harris. He didn't prove it. He argued the point for it based on basic scientific research.

@KalCraig

4 жыл бұрын

@James Burkhardt Be careful of saying it's been proven. Even Sam Harris would not say it's been proven. He might argue for the evidence of it.

@frankmoser6251

4 жыл бұрын

Free will is a human misconception and is much like the religious beliefs that it derived from is ONLY put into the human psyche for personal reassurance as well as force everone to be responsible for each and every action as well as the results thereof ....... You don't even have "free choice" let alone "free will"...... How can you claim either when you were born to predetermined parents with predetermined dna within a certain predetermined place geologically with a predetermined number of possible "choices" that would be available just for YOU?......don't sound like you'd REALLY have very much say over ANYTHING except for the very few personal decisions that you are left with .....but you would feel much better if you thought that you had control OVER these facts.....TRUTH IS that you REALLY NEVER DID.....lol

The way to reconcile the seeming contradiction is that we have freedom of choice and at the same time it is predetermined by God and both are equally true because we are nothing separate from God. The ego self is not God and that is what we identify with and what makes us individuals but on a very deep level of existence it is all One, everything is connected. God is the deepest part of our being, the very core of our being which is far beyond our comprehension and at the same time our very own self. What God determines and what we choose is kne and the same but because of duality we think God is something out there separate from ourselves and creation when God is the whole of everything, all in all.

this is very enlightening. Where can I get the video transcpirt ?

@friarpapius3008

4 жыл бұрын

Click on the three dots

@abderrahimmark

4 жыл бұрын

@@friarpapius3008 thanks

@friarpapius3008

4 жыл бұрын

@@abderrahimmark no probem

is the definition of "God" ever explored in this series?

I love this channel, and this topic. Cynical me showed up today though. The experience of living suggests to me that, if a creator exists, it must be neutral for free will to exist. That puts us into the category of the universe as a science experiment. Original conditions provided via a big bang, and the rest is observation only as far as the creator is concerned.

Nice topic here 😉 For me as a religious person we believe there is 2 type of Destiny, 1st is God willing or God decree that can't be change called as Qada and 2nd is Human Freewill called as Qadar Both are works simultainously, to unwrap this meaning I already explain about Triangle ball Conundrum, The Ball is us as freewill but the Triangle is the God Decree. So this is also talk about Ultimate controll or randomness of freedom. The freewill at this point is meaningless by God because the entire goals is God decree, so its kind of a detour goes into the same goals at the End. Another simple example is our Bodies, we know we should and have to feed and preserve our DNA from external sources across the Nature envireontment, but yet still Freewill has to be Involve to preserve it, even when it does to feed our DNA, the DNA it self is not in our controll or self mechanism. Just think about it, we can free not to feed our DNA by freewill choices, but then the God decree always won the arguments by sending the Natural Instict to feed it, or another choice is to over feed it that can cause instabilizing the structure of the DNA, freewill is irrelevant compare to God decree that looks more important and superior. Another example is Randomness, off course we can't comprehend that entirely within Quantum Sub Atomic scale, so whats the point of being random if everything else is in Order, just like our view someone is baffling around is irrelevant rather than just Order and harmony, a person with the important point, and this should explain why Freewill is not necessary needed to know by God Foreknowledge, God only need the result. So in the End, for me Freewill is an Illusion. No mater what you do the God Decree can't be changed, just like in our daily life with tough job and bosses that may restrain our freedom, because in the end everything is going back to God.

@beehivepattern5695

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry I just deleted the Post and re-Comment again now, and change the accounts. I beleive there is a comments, from nihilstic point of Views in there.

18:46 predestination for damnation is an idea that the Catholic Church doesn't admit. God wants all to be saved. But you're still free to choose.

I remember watching a youtube clip about simulations. They said maybe there could be a computer powerful enough to simulate all of the universe existence at once, so whoever made the simulation could access any point in history whenever they wanted. It would be like a book where all the pages exist at once and the reader just need to go to a certain page. Add a lot more power and that computer could simulate, at once, all possible existences derived from any choices any living being make so whoever created the simulation can access data about any of that, at will. A similar concept would help with this question. A "god" outside of our time would of course know what you do tomorrow because that's what you decide to do, so it's what will happen/has happened. In the "more powerful computer" option, "god" would also know what you decide to do in a different tomorrow, which would also be, for that "god" (and for that "other you"), reality. However, that would mean that "god" created everything but decides to be just a viewer. Which would create a lot of different questions but hey, if that's true then "god" is 100% knowledgable and we are 100% free to make choices. The creator/s of a hypothetical simulation would be basically our god/s, anyway. They'd have created our time and space but aren't affected by our time and space, they would have knowledge of whatever happens/will happen/has happened in the simulation and could potentially change it if they wanted.

We are not puppets with God pulling the strings, but God is our very being, and knows what we do because God is not separate from us God is not a being, but being itself. Like God, we are not separate individuals, but unique expressions of humanity situated in both time and place, connected to all the people who have made us who we are, and with whom we have come and will com into contact. There is no I without we, and than salvation has to be universal. God’s foreknowledge and control in opposition to our freedom ceases to be a problem when we relinquish the separation of the divine and the human. After all, Christ is both human and divine, and does not exist in division. Predestination of an in and out crowd is an absurd and abhorrent concept in which a loving God is turned into a terrible and terrifying tyrant. Salvation is overcoming separation and must be universal.

Free will is similar to beliefs. One can only act or be convinced of something that is possible depending on access to info and the environment at a given point in time.

@dustinellerbe4125

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist that's your opinion. Show me something that contrasts this.

P.P.S. How is it I just found this amazing youtube channel??? 35,000 videos? I wish I'd discovered you when you started (maybe 'you know who' didn't want me to?) there's no way I can catch up. Never mind. I'll do my best.

For human beings to keep asking questions about God that no human being can answer seems irrational to me. But so be it.

@dustinellerbe4125

4 жыл бұрын

Yea, agreed. To pretend to know of a god/Gods is pretty silly. It just leads to more questions that humans have to pretend to answer.

@dustinellerbe4125

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist let me rephrase... To pretend there is a god is silly. To pretend to know the nature of a pretend god is silly as well. It only leads to more assumptions and questions. You use scriptures and personal testimony to determine what you think is truth. That's someone else's story you are using to make an assessment about reality. There are many religions with scripture, rituals, and personal testimonies. How did you determine they are all deluded and you're not?

@somethingyousaid5059

4 жыл бұрын

​@Martyr4JesusTheChrist You "are inherently the paragon example of" the presumptuous Christian. Alas, you aren't able to recognize that my insight about the irrationality of the human being asking unanswerable questions about God doesn't require me to be an atheist (which is your unconscious assumption). I could just as easily be a (Christian) theist and still have that same insight.

@alexismamadou2193

4 жыл бұрын

Do you think aliens would be more justified in probing God's nature? If so, wouldn't you want to peep at their bible?

@ferdinandkraft857

4 жыл бұрын

There is big money in this make-believe game.

How will both unknown universes and faith be the basis of epistemological knowledge.

Nobody made a comparison to an earthly parent's anticipation of what their kid will do and the kid still having agency. Seems such an obvious and appropriate analogy here. Relative to the child (their creation in a way) the parent does seem perfect, provider of all (including chances for success) and does delineate what is right and wrong.

Free will is not about checking, or not checking, your mail. Why is it so hard to understand that free will means to comply, or not to comply, with Reality (God). They are many who do not comply with reality; natures laws, or with conscience; the laws of behavior that we all know intuitively and can agree on. God in His omniscience may ultimately know what we will do but having free will negates that we are compelled to do it. Our inclinations may propel us in a wrong direction but there is still choice. We are not determined.

Not free will,free from will,n enjoy that state.

I really don't see any conflict. God knowing what future choice a human being is going to make doesn't mean the person making it did not do so freely. A person can freely choose to do either A or B and God knowing it beforehand does not mean God forced the person to make that particular choice. Why is that so hard to understand? God knew what questions Robert is going to ask in this interview, does it mean Robert wasn't doing it freely just because God knew everything? This confound me more than the non existent conflict between God's foreknowledge and human freewill.

@Franci0242

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!!

In that little space that God grants you choice of A or B your brain already knows, before you do, which will be chosen. Dr David Eagleman and other neuroscientists have studied this exact phenomenon.

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

These guys are theologians. They're not interested in science.

@fcmiller3

4 жыл бұрын

@@Joshua-dc1bs True, except Robert Kuhn; Kuhn received a bachelor's degree in human biology from Johns Hopkins University (Phi Beta Kappa) in 1964, a PhD in anatomy and brain research from the University of California, Los Angeles' Brain Research Institute in 1968 and a master of science in management as a Sloan fellow from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 1980.[5]

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@@fcmiller3 I'm not talking about Kuhn, I'm talking about the people he interviews.

@fcmiller3

4 жыл бұрын

@@Joshua-dc1bs I see.

You are free because you are free to use your will to do whatever you want and even if God has foreknowledge of what you are doing and what you are going to do by not interfering with your will to do what you want you are still free.

@Elaphe472

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder why god is sooo complicated...

@levikittles1720

Жыл бұрын

Nonsense

The argument of God is in fact between existence and doing(doing), not human free will and God's foreknowledge.

If predestination how then freewill.

The issue is using the word foreknowledge when it comes to God. God has knowledge and ultimate knowledge of everything. But he is also a temporal that is not subject to the temporal nature of our universe. Therefore foreknowledge does not apply to him. Because the word foreknowledge implies a comparison between two time periods the present and the future. So what do we know scientifically must be true about the nature of particles in our universe if time is not a factor. Under newtonian physics if you can both know the position and velocity (velocity being The speed of something in a given direction and speed is just distance / time)of all the particles in the universe, you can predict all possible outcomes given the laws of physics for the rest of time. Now the Heisenberg uncertainty principle says that you can’t know both where a particle is and how fast it’s moving at the same time but notice we always come back to TIME. The smallest unit of time that we know of is plank time. I would theorize that God‘s knowledge of the universe is updated each unit of plank time. And therefore no matter what choices we make in the system of particles creating new vibrations and affects within quantum fields due to our agency freely acting in them, God both knows The effects of the choice, and its consequences in the future. The paradoxical nature of gods foreknowledge is only relevant when you assume God has knowledge subject to time.

@ferdinandkraft857

4 жыл бұрын

Bullshit. You don't know.

@clintmontgomery5108

4 жыл бұрын

Ferdinand Kraft Did I claim to know any of this... it’s just a hypothesis based on logical inference from physical laws. If God exist and did create the universe is the assumption. If that is true and Time is part of the universe- then God cannot be subject to time like we are. From that it’s possible to understand how god can know everything all the “time”. His future knowledge is an extremely accurate production based on perfect knowledge of the present. And with perfect knowledge of the present can therefore effectively guarantee the outcomes he wants. “God dose not play dice” but maybe he dose play billiards with subatomic partials.

The following philosophy paper offers one possible solution to the free-will debate: “Mathematical Metaphysics: Modeling Determinism and Free-will along the lines of Theological Compatibilism”. It’s an open access paper.

Presentism seems the best answer.

@ferdinandkraft857

4 жыл бұрын

For the moment.

Why assume that God lives in our present, or even experiences our time dimension at all? If God lives in a different time dimension, or doesn’t experience time at all, the concept of God’s “foreknowledge” becomes nonsense. By removing the “necessity” of explaining God’s foreknowledge this paradox disappears. We have free will, and God knows what we did/will do. He doesn’t know before, since there is no “before” for God. Instead, God can see past and future just as we see the left and right sides of a two dimensional picture. God sees all four of our dimensions “at once.”

@richardvannoy7230

4 жыл бұрын

George Pelton Very interesting way of putting it.

for Anselm of Canterbury idea to be right, ones predilection to do either a or b must be the same. How does one choose a or b? because one is more favorable than the other. I recognizing this an exercise of free will?

Let's try a dual-reality postulate. God knows what I will AND what I will not do along the same time-line. A similar thing happens in quantum electrodynamics, when a photon will land on a specific destination but it also will not land there but will probably land somewhere else. The photon still lands and I still clean the stalls but if the photon landed elsewhere and I didn't clean the stalls, God's knowledge and sovereignty over these actions is not diminished.

Creating A knowing that B will result is equivalent to creating B by creating A.

Free will does exist, I believe. And I believe that God (Allah) is All-loving. So his fore-knowledge gives me a unending pleasant feeling of His Omnipresence. Love to all from Pakistan.

@joetech12

4 жыл бұрын

I've read that Allah does not love the unbeliever? Is this true?

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

Did you choose to believe in a false prophet whos miracles were forgeries of Christ's miracles?

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus 341-270 BCE

@clintmontgomery5108

4 жыл бұрын

Steve Harding Is God Benevolent-yes Is God able- yes Is he willing -yes -so long as it is justifiable to do so. You see Epicurus over simplified The complex factors that effect Gods willingness to do something. For example If stopping evil from occurring would require an unloving act, God would be bound by his Goodness to not interfere. If you want to say this means he is not omnipotent that’s fine- but it’s not that he can’t it’s that he won’t compromises his standards to stop temporary evil. There is also the definition of evil? There are 2 flavors of evil. Willful evil- an agents choice to cause evil where they know exactly the consequences of there actions. And evil by Ignorance-where accidental effects are caused by our choices,or unforeseen events that could not be produced. If at one point humans chose not to consult Gods Knowledge and instead took on the risk of the unforeseen- it would no longer be gods responsibility to stop evil by Ignorance. As for the willful Ignorance. To overwrite someone’s Will is unloving and there for is also not Gods responsibility.

@bipolarbear9917

4 жыл бұрын

@@clintmontgomery5108 I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you on the ignorance angle. Ignorance by definition means: lack of knowledge or information. So, true ignorance (not knowing) cannot be willful. Willful ignorance is an oxymoron. From my point of view there is absolutely zero evidence of any kind of God as described in any of the human religions or beliefs systems in any human cultures of the past or present. We are just grasping at philosophical straws. And to think in all the vastness of the Cosmos that we are the only sentient beings, or the center of a God's attention and creation is kind of arrogant hubris. You only have to look at humanity's numerous attempts to define what we don't understand about our world as God. These are just our feeble attempts to answer possibly unanswerable questions, because we are the (relatively hairless) ape that always asks why. It's part of who we are, it's in our DNA. We don't need the gods of orthodox religions handed to us by someone else who thinks they know better. The shear number of different religions should be a red flag to any intelligent human being that something is definitely wrong here. They can't all be right when they have so many different interpretations. These many and varied religions or belief systems are just a distraction, and we only need to look at history to see what harm these religions and doctrines have done and continue to do. What's important is the search. To look for God (for want of a better word) in our own personal way, and not be lazy by accepting a pre-packaged idea and doctrines from a classical orthodox belief system. It's not the destination which is what seems to be important to people who purport their religion is the one and only answer, and the correct one. Open your mind, rather than follow like a sheep. That's what this series is all about. It's trying to get you to think. Personally, I lean more towards a pantheistic philosophy, because it makes more sense to me and is not in conflict with science. Below is a simple explanation of where my beliefs lie. We should do our best, and be good to others, because we are all part of the same human family, not because there's some payoff (heaven) in a later life. The best I can say is we are all one. And the sooner we realize that the better. Religions just cause more tribalism, and more behaviors involving 'us and them' That's not good. We need a paradigm shift in our thinking if we are going to survive into the deep future. I'll leave you a link to a very interesting map of the evolution religious beliefs through the ages for you to get around your head around the fact that well before christian religions early humans probably as a by-product of a sentient mind have been searching for answers to questions like where did we come from, and what is our reason for being hear. pbs.twimg.com/media/CWLT4lZUEAACRyR.jpg The following is another comment I posted for the same Closer to Truth video. These theists always come from a position of classical religious beliefs and anthropocentricity, and they always anthropomorphize God by calling God 'Him'. If God exists, 'It' (not Him or Her) would be beyond our comprehension, and 'It' was only responsible for kick-starting the Multiverse, but has no control over our Universe or us, is the only thing that makes any sense. Nothing is predestined, no foreknowledge, it just unfolds under 'laws of physics', with many (laws of physics) still mysteries and unknown to us. We have 'free will' within our definition of consciousness. Who's to say we are alone or not in this universe, or in the multitude of possible universes? If we need purpose in our lives, it can be found in Carl Sagan's quote; 'We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself'.

@bipolarbear9917

4 жыл бұрын

@@clintmontgomery5108 Clint, I think you might find this interesting and it explains a lot of what I have said earlier. kzread.info/dash/bejne/YoB3tqqAnZSTnMo.html

@clintmontgomery5108

4 жыл бұрын

Steve Harding I think I did a poor job of explaining the difference between evil by Ignorance and willful evil. If I willfully want to end someone’s life and don’t care about the suffering it will cause others and have no respect for the life I took... that is willful evil. If a child dose not understand the suffering that results from killing someone and doesn’t understand respect for life that is evil by Ignorance. The lack of knowledge of how to prevent suffering defines Ignorance by evil. This covers everything from natural disasters- to unforeseen consequences of our actions. I may be grasping at straws but if I find the right one, It may Lead to Knowledge that we can’t get any other way. And that will help get rid of evil by Ignorance.

@bipolarbear9917

4 жыл бұрын

@@clintmontgomery5108 Okay, I think I get where you're coming from. I think you'll find Prof. Alice Roberts lecture to the Humanists UK interesting. Morality without Religion. She leans heavily on essays written by Margaret K. Knight (1903-1983), British psychologist and humanist, not to be confused with Margaret E. Knight (1838-1914), American inventor. I'm guessing you're a religious person, which is fine, but for me I just can't accept any orthodox religion because there are too many inconsistencies. he way I see it, we could just as easily call God the Force like in Star Wars. That may be a poor example but the basic idea seems more realistic to me. Margaret K. Knight was quoted as saying 'A system of belief that is to be acceptable must satisfy the ordinary criteria of reason; the beliefs must be consistent with each other and not obviously in conflict with fact. Orthodox Christian beliefs, I suggest do not satisfy these criteria'. Anyway brother, may peace be upon you, and "May the Force be with You'.

There is only God. God is Being everyone and everything. There is no one separate from God. Indeed, everyone is God, There does not exist the situation where some are ''in'' and some are ''out'' as the last speaker talked about. No one is more or less God than anyone else. The drug addict lying in the gutter is as much God as the Pope. He or she may actually even be a better person. There is only Being being everything. When you speak to your neighbor you are speaking to yourself, and your neighbor is listening to him/her self. God has absolute free will and is exercising it. And you are this God.

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like incest.

The problem of responsibility exists in both situations. If I have free will, how am I responsible for not believing in a God that hasn't revealed himself to me? Am I responsible if I walk into a house with my shoes on not knowing that shoes inside isn't allowed? Should I be punished for not knowing the rules? How is it that some people don't believe? because they do not know. God knows that they don't know and doesn't do anything about it. If they are punished for not knowing, then they are unjustly punished if you subscribe to the free will doctrine. Both have flaws. One is consistent in that we say that we do not know how it is we're responsible but it is in our best interest to take responsibility because the bible says that if we don't, we will end up in hell. The other applies a weak human understanding of what a just God would do. The most consistent answer to this is that God's ways are higher than our ways and that we should not limit his capacity to enact his judgement for we cannot comprehend what is and isn't truely just for we lack the knowledge God has.

@HigherInfluence

4 жыл бұрын

God has written His laws on everyone heart. Everyone is given a knowledge of God. That’s in part how people respond positively to the scripture.

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

@@HigherInfluence So God gives us all the same level of choice while knowing who and who won't respond? This isn't true. Look at Saul's conversion. Was it his free will choice that God spoke to him? No. It is more likely for a Christian born to a Christian family to believe than for a non-believer to believe. How is it fair that the christian gets this advantage? What about people who never hear the good news? Is this because we are equally endowed with knowledge or because external circumstances permit further revelation? Science has made religion obsolete in many areas where people would question "why do I exist?". Perhaps we are all inclined towards God, but this inclination does not have the same potency for every person. To say that it does and that they chose to reject what someone else received is to assume that your experience is the same as everyone elses. This just is not true.

@HigherInfluence

4 жыл бұрын

Frank : I never said God gives the same level of choice to everyone, the hearts of some are hardened more than others. Saul responded in spite of his hardened heart.

God is like you watching your kid trying to put a puzzle together, but your kid doesn't know the final picture. So God gives you all the pieces, but we have to choose to put them together. You can then say that there "is" no final picture and life is a random process of trial and error which is fine, but it takes you longer to figure it out. This is the simple version...

God does not automatically foreknow all things. He chooses not to know and allows his intelligent creatures free will to live in harmony with his created reality and its laws or not. God only uses his foreknowledge to look into future decisions when his will deems appropriate. Otherwise, the free will of others and how they use such freedom is up to them. Yet, there are rewards and consequences for the free choices made.

I'm atheist, mister Kuhn, but you obviously know that matter is the clock. Without matter the universe can't tell the time. There is no future for a supposed non material being.

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

E=MC2, so...

@domcasmurro2417

4 жыл бұрын

@@xspotbox4400 The meaning of that equation is not what you think The fact mass can be converted in energy, and that energy in the gluon field linking quarks is responsible for majority of the mass, is irrelevant to my point. Particles with strong interaction with the higgs field have mass and can't travel at speed of light. Those are the clocks of the universe. Only with energy the universe can't tell the time.

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

@@domcasmurro2417 And why is gluon radiation coherent, it's not like quarks can radiate light, only why we can comprehend quantum magic is if we contain entire system in some virtual box, stop time and measure energy potentials inside. This is how we know what must exist inside a box, theory predict it could be anything, could be just a single particle existing in many places at same time, except only some known variations could cause measured amounts, so those are probably real. Measurement is some value, just a number, it's more likely this effect was caused by some particles than others but there's no way to know what really happened inside. This clocks must look like those from Dali paintings.

In both the free will and non free will situations, it is still God's will. It is God's will for you to freely rebel against him. Did he cause this rebellion? By virtue of him creating everything, he does.

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

He is the culprit by that logic, correct?

As soon as someone can explain free will coherently, I'll answer the stupid question.

@orophessstv

4 жыл бұрын

@@deanf7450 So true. Respect from Pakistan

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

@@orophessstv he is rejecting free will. You do realize this?

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

​@@deanf7450 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

@Mark-wb8ck

4 жыл бұрын

Absence of any mathematical/algorithmic function to predict the immediate configuration of the system. And the system is conscious of itself.

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

Freewill can be said to be the ability to choose between one thing or another.

There is no conflict. Conflict arises if God has the desire to change the future but, God is beyond Space Time and has no desire to change anything.

@Frank-og4nn

4 жыл бұрын

The bible changed a lot of things m8

Human want freedom and on the other hand he is afraid of it,cause then he will be responsible.

Someone should have thought to ask these questions of that burning bush or whatever.

How long is a piece of string if you line up all its atoms in a row, and all then all its subatomic particles? This question is less ridiculous, and less pointless.. The God-squad don't care about paradoxes against their god or dogma, they prefer to dwell on the paradoxes in science as proof of God. Whatever the actual case concering free will, my (pseudo) free will only feels constrained by the usual personal values and external world. I have more freedom of thought than free will, by a long way... or so I think.

First you have to consider the fact that if God is ALL everything then perhaps it is our comparative child-like understanding that makes these questions a "problem" to our limited view. For example, what if the multiple dimensional view is right? In this case God can know everything AND we can still have absolute freewill in our lives. This would mean that every possible choice is already made in its own world and we are choosing which world we will be aware of by the frame of mind, our awareness, and our choices both physical and mental. The second thing I would say is why couldn't God choose to allow for what God created to make these choices and experience the consequences that are already set in order for us to learn from them? After all, God would supposedly know all that we do and infinitely more. We can see from our own kids that if we "fix" every issue then they tend to repeat their mistakes and rely upon the parents to "fix" everything time and time again. For us humans, this is exhausting. For God it would simply undermine the lessons that God is attempting to teach us. After watching a bit more of this video it occurs to me that the lines of reasoning are omitting one possibility. It could be that we have the choice before we are born (and continue to have that choice while we are alive) to give up our freewill and allow for the Creator to work through us. In my opinion, this would be like the teacher taking over after the pupil has had enough and needs to be shown in order to figure out how to come to the proper solution next time. In this analogy you would be choosing all the time whether you want to use your freedom of will or let the master take over. This scenario also presupposes that the whole idea is for us to learn how to be better than we were and more like the Creator Itself.

8:17

Why not human free will and God’s foreknowledge? It could be argued that we have free will, but that a God knows ahead of time what we will freely choose to do (somehow).

"Can Free Will Survive God's Foreknowledge?" This, again, is not a DEEEEEEP question but a RUBBISH question!

@GeoCoppens

4 жыл бұрын

God's foreknowledge is baseless nonsense!

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

Hey GeoCoppens... your free will allows you to see this question as "rubbish." The free will of others enables them to perceive this question as "deep."

@GeoCoppens

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 No, that's not free will!

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@@GeoCoppens Okay. I respect your definition. But I don't see the constraint of necessity to label this as rubbish.

The Abrahamic God has irretrievable problems with omnipotence. The only way theists can reconcile is by nerfing him so he isn't omnipotent (this is a problem Buddhists and Pantheists don't have), or they try to claim that God is omniscient but humans somehow have free will in which case what is the point in our *test* that this life Christians claim is? Besides that you can rap this up with the problem of evil, because God is created this reality knowing that some humans would use their free will for evil, why doesn't he just create a universe in which no human uses their free will to choose evil? Humans would still be using free will to choose virtue and no one need be punished in hellnfor their compatably force evil. It's irreconcilable. I've been thinking this for years but haven't come across any theists with answers, thanks for the video. Although it seems there is still no answer.

Myeah.

My theory. God sees the entire future of existence and manipulates certain things within the timeline in order to achieve his purpose. His purpose is to one day cut off his future vision power and have everlasting or long term relationship with his creation. He has complete trust he will be happy because he foresaw it before cutting his future vision power off. He needs to cut off his future vision power in order to achieve true joy of creation (like watching a good movie you never saw before).

None of these 'experts' on God can define what it is. They also seem to imbue this undefined thing with human characteristics. A thing that has the capabilities claimed on its behalf by theologians, is, by definition, something of which we have, nor can have, any knowledge or understanding. We have no experience of such powers or a wielder of those powers upon which to draw. When I'm asked about God, my only answer is 'I don't know'. Until I see evidence I lean toward scepticism, but I'm not even sure what would count as evidence of a God that is omnipotent, omniscient etc.

Anybody can foresee the future, if now is night, than soon sky will became bright. We can observe Mars with cheap telescopes because we know where planet must be according to physics and sky charts, but we have no idea where Nasa rover is and how it move around the surface. Nobody knows, there's no way to control a rover directly, operators receive data from probe, study what camera see and program new path how it must move in the future. But that rover is already there, machine exist in it's own future and improvise over terrain, guided by program from a past and electronic sensory input correcting for small unknowns. Rover is not alive or intelligent, can't even compare with a simple virus, but this machine is much smarter than ordinary rocks. We have many paradoxes in play here, we can observe Mars as it was minutes ago, but there's a machine existing in the present that does it's own thing and keep us updated about our future, by transmitting data from it's past locations and behavior into our future. It's all kinda happening now, except distances change the way we perceive holistic reality. What is actually changed by dislocation phenomena, distance force pockets of unpredictability in a closed system to occur, flow of information is causing parallax. It's because human designs are not perfect, size of planets, rover and humans doesn't match energy criteria for illusion of coherent present time. Our body is evolved for simultaneity, it feels like only our mind respond somehow slow to changes in unpredictable reality our body is exposed to, even when brain is the only organ that can exist in present time, since brain is pushing body from a past to a future. God can see the future, this means universe as we know had a beginning and it must end or God would live in a hunted world.

"God Knowing now what will happen tomorrow"... the approach and language is mistaken. For God there is no "now" and "tomorrow".

If, "God" were to "give human beings competing motivations", (14 mins : 20), then surely that, "God", would be the creator of mental instability, and therefore confusion, and thereby denying the victims, the means of self determination. If however, God is the source of truth, (the means by which unstable, continuously changing reality becomes, established unchangingness), then God would be the means by which confusion is escaped from, and thereafter prevented. And so, evolution happens.

"god simply knows what human beings are gonna FreeIy do . Free actions foreknown _how so? N If at all so then maybe such actions aren't really free after all.

I don't really look to the bible for thoughts of GOD. I'm more interested in the Near-death experience phenomena. In that aspect I think that GOD may not know everything. For instance people that supposedly die and have an NDE and are met by whomever and told it's not their time. Sometimes there are interactions with people in an NDE as if there is a misunderstanding of why this person is there. Some people are excited to see you only to find out you are not allowed to stay in that place. There are lots of NDE's that suggest we choose to come here ( for what reasons aren't really shown ) which makes more sense to me. It can explain why some people have a great life and someone else is born into a body that is full of trauma and strife. My opinion, is if there is a GOD...Why would he want to care what every individual does on earth...or every other being out in the universe. Makes more sense were thrown out here to various playgrounds and we do whatever then report when we die.

Present past future are three distinctive time even for a god. So no way god can foreknow future actions without somehow determining them .but apologetics want to have it both ways .n by the way who really came up with the idea of all knowing god ? Religious texts.

It does not threatened it at all! Not even close. Just because i know it has nothing to do with you freely choosing it. If i know you dont like vanilla but like chocolate, i know you will choose choc. In the future. That doesnt change you are freely choosing it.

OK,He gave us arms,did He expect us not to use them?He gave us legs,did he expect us not to use them?He gave us eyes,does He get angry for using them?Free will is something else He bestowed upon us,it wouldn't be reasonable not to use it and He knows this!Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!

Why in the world would God want to deal with the unimaginable burden of being constantly aware of every micro and macro aspect of the universe? Not to mention the utter and eternal boredom of never being able to experience a random or serendipitous surprise of any kind.

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

Hey TheUltimateSeeds... I like your perception and your statements. If we are made in God's image, and we enjoy a surprise, why can't God's nature be such?

@TheUltimateSeeds

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Hi John Brzykcy, you nailed it! I suggest that most of the ideas regarding God being omniscient, stem from human interpretations of Biblical descriptions of God. Yet one of the main and initial doctrines in the Bible states that we humans are created in God’s image (in a “familial” way, as in being God’s literal children/offspring). And what that means is that some of what we are (and of how our own minds are structured) can be turned around and applied to God in certain and limited ways. And as that pertains to the topic of this video, in the same way it is logical to presume that God possesses free will, likewise, so do humans. Clearly, when it comes to the matter of intelligence, then any sentient and self-aware Entity that is capable of creating the unfathomable order of the universe (out of the mental fabric of its very own being), makes us humans seem like amoebas in comparison. However, I think the problem arose when humans began taking their awe, and reverence, and estimations of God’s intelligence a step way too far. Indeed, as one simple example of what I am referring to, it appears as though humans have taken the idea of “omniscience” to mean that at every instant in time, God is acutely aware of the status and trajectory of every subatomic particle throughout the entire universe (in either direction of time, no less). And in my humble opinion, that is an utterly ridiculous (and totally unnecessary) assumption to make about God. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that such a far-fetched (and mistaken) assumption about God’s capabilities is one of the main (of many) reasons why it is so difficult for the atheists to believe that such a Being could even exist. The bottom line is that if a transcendent Creator of this universe truly does exist, then we need a more logical theory (a new paradigm) as to the true nature of its limits, makeup, and intentions for us. _______

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheUltimateSeeds Thanks for the comment and sharing so much, If indeed I did nail it, it's only because Jesus the Christ was nailed to a cross for mankind ( His image ).

There's another possibility, regarding predestination, humans being, "maximally free, and God being maximally knowledgeable" and that's where God's, "plan" is that everyone should accept personal responsibility, and mature to the point of being autonomous, like God, and surely just like any responsible parent, who wants his, her, or its children to maximise potential. That's surely be the alternative to being an automaton, whose purpose in having a self, wouldn't exist, or something languishing somewhere between the extremes, pointlessly failing to evolve. So if, God's plan, is for everyone to be autonomous, then how would that be different from God, being an Anarchist ? From the Greek, "An", (meaning without), and Archos, (meaning rulership), So, if God isn't a fascist, then he / she / it wouldn't interfere, with our learning process, but may tolerate a heirarchy, to the extent that it doesn't involve the imposition of power. Instead, it would consist of people who have learned that attempts to rule over others, pre-empts stability within self. Wouldn't such people encourage others to liberate themselves, from the dominance of ignorance, instability and confusion, by embracing inner truth, around which mind becomes stable, by which we form perspective, gain self awareness, and thereby learn personal responsibility ?

Nothing said Bottom Lines it. Still keeps leaving one more question.

Oh one MORE thing that I'd like to remind you all of......this comment section is FULL of "free will" believers" who were so confident and sure of themselves they just HAD to make the comments and or statements that they did in order to receive comforting feedback and self reassurance from other free will "believers" in order to actually strengthen a complete falsehood that THEY themselves already know logically cannot exist.....this is NOT "free will" and narry a soul who left a single post below can claimed m different because they are ALL responding to ANOTHER( predetermined) "action" and otherwise would NOT even be here......lol ....feel "free" to argue but I'll guarantee that your NOT because the instant you'd "respond" you couldn't call it free will....and NOW that I've told you ....if you don't respond then your simply reacting in defiance of what i have just mentioned and therefore "reacting" to WHAT I already said ( predetermined "act") ....but remember I'm ONLY on here saying this in "response" of someone else's video and subject matter.....and THEY ONLY posted it online( KZread Facebook Twitter etc) due to ANOTHER predetermined "action" ( reaction ) to ANOTHER and ANOTHER.....ETC.....lol

This episode reminds me why the Judeo-Christian interpretation of god, which I was originally brought up under, is broken beyond repair. How about exploring the Hinduistic interpretation of god, or those of other religions? A sky-daddy that controls and foresees everything is just not how nature works. How god works, should one exist, should be reflected in how nature works, at every level (hinduism, maybe?). Trying to explain nature and existence in terms of "because god" is for people who believe in santa claus and the easter bunny.

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

Hey TheTRoofSayer... the "interpretation" of the Judeo-Christian god may be "broken beyond repair" but Jesus the Christ was broken on the cross so that we can be repaired! John in Florida

@TheTroofSayer

4 жыл бұрын

​@@johnbrzykcy3076 My greatest respect to my Christian friends. The civilized world owes much to Christianity. There are some thoughtful interpretations - names like Thomas Aquinas come to mind. But I'd love to see a new denomination of Christianity evolve that factors in the science, Hubble deep-field and all the rest. I have no doubt that there are other places in the cosmos where religions have evolved with their own rich traditions inspired by heroes, legends and saviors. We don't need to jettison Jesus. But we do need to realize that he stood for something far grander than a sky-daddy for a consumerist, anthropocentric culture that sees itself at the center of the universe as the central purpose of being. To this day, seemingly intelligent people continue to ask, "are we alone (in the universe)"? They don't get it, that there is NO Fermi paradox.

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheTroofSayer Hey there... I had to look up the definition of "Fermi paradox." Also... I'm glad you said "we don't need to jettison Jesus." I kind of feel the same as you... especially regarding a Christianity that "factors in the science..." I agree that Jesus "stood for something far grander than a sky-daddy..." Thanks for sharing. John in Florida

Because we rely on the Bible, it is IMPOSSIBLE for humans NOT to have free will. OTHERWISE THERE WOULD NOT BE 10 Commandments! And as a human, I am sure that They are NOT man-made! I think the problem with our understanding of free will lies in our understanding of time. There is no time at all in Heaven. Past, present and future are the same. That is why the knowledge of God and our choice occur at the same time. We do choose and make efforts in choosing, and God is our witness, but without time. We cannot understand this, because we perceive reality in three tenses and our brain lives and sees everything as through three curved mirrors. It cannot function any other way. That is why we are confused and trying to fit God into our human vision.

Free will is real. Religious fantasies are entirely imaginary.

The premise here, which seems fallacious, is that god is separate from the infinite manifestations thereof.

@Ploskkky

4 жыл бұрын

You clearly have very intimate knowledge about some god. People who make such definite statements always make me laugh.

@acortes7771

4 жыл бұрын

Rich Blacklock, God is separate. God is the Creator not the creature.

Does your 4yr old’s bike have training wheels? But for the love of God why? Best Wishes, Cirque Du Soleil

@philippe9078

4 жыл бұрын

I think i understood what you meant but not really sure

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Jaden... I'm not 4 but I still need those "training wheels!"

@JadenJahci

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 exactly,...thus your “free will” Is In essence on the mid night train to Georgia. Kind Regards, Colossus (Six Flags Magic Mountain)

I think it is unfortunate that he did not interview an advocate for Molinism like Dr William Lane Craig. I find this to be the only view that grants free will and demonstrates how God still has full control to bring about his plans and purposes (which I believe includes creating free willed creatures) and shows how foreknowledge and free will can be fully compatible. To simplify this concept for others let me explain it this way: Have you ever played a roleplaying game like DnD or something like it where you have freewill agents playing in a world created and filled by a Game Master? Do the players have free agency? Yes But who has ultimate control over what they can and cannot do? The Game Master This is just an analogy to point to the fact that you can still have complete control of the story while permitting free will. Does God give us free will to choose? Yes, he does. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, Deuteronomy 30:19 NASB If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord , choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord .” Joshua 24:15 NASB Seek the Lord while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the Lord , And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:6‭-‬7 NASB Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. Revelation 3:20 NASB Does God orchestrate our world? Yes, he does. and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; Acts 17:26‭-‬27 NASB The mind of man plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps. Proverbs 16:9 NASB Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Romans 13:1 NASB Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’; Isaiah 46:10 NASB So to bring this simplified analogy full circle: our free will can be comparable to players in a DnD game. We freely choose what we do but the Game Master creates the world, and if this game master has foreknowledge he can order it in such a way that his plans and purposes for that world will be accomplished through free willed agents.

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

If he moves chess pieces in places where I choose not to move it then where is freewill?

@wheretruthleads

4 жыл бұрын

@@TomAnderson_81 , I didn't use a chess analogy but a DnD analogy which I believe is more fitting. If you see an issue, can you address it in the DnD context to more accurately address where you may see an issue? Thanks for the clarity!

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

Brandon Ball Depends (in DnD) if you assume he has absolute foreknowledge? If god had foreknowledge, then even what he will do is known and therefore he cannot change what is already known which may mean he has no freewill so either he has no freewill or has no foreknowledge, which is it?

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

Brandon Ball How is that logical? Your logic is that there is a future which he knows with 100% absolute certainty. Let us say that on Nov 15 at 12:34 pm he will make one choice out of hundreds of other choices, does he have the freewill to change that choice? According to you, that choice was already known with absolute certainty which means THAT choice is set in stone and cannot change with no possibility which means when that moment occurs, he has no freewill to change it. So, now you have to choose, does he have freewill or does he have absolute knowledge. Also, even if this were true, how do you know if he has that foreknowledge or not? Do you have any justification for that claim?

@wheretruthleads

4 жыл бұрын

@@TomAnderson_81 I think you are mixing up the concept of possible choices with a single concluded choice. For any number of possible choices you can only have one concluded choice you will end up freely picking. We don't know what we will freely choose until we do it but God would. Knowledge alone can not cause anything. Having knowledge of a concluded choice does not mean that there were never possible choices. Once a choice is made by you freely you can not go back in time to change your freely chosen choice. That is not what we mean by free will. Just because you could have chosen differently doesn't mean you must be able to change your choices after the fact. It is important to differentiate that we as limited beings do not have the forknowledge of our actions, only God would. If we are changing the point of view to God: His knowledge is only based on what He would freely choose, what reason would an all knowing God have for changing His mind? He would always know the best answer and would freely choose it. There is nothing about His forknowledge that infringes on free will in this view.

Surely we know already that wiser people can anticipate events more accurately, than less understanding people. And those maintaining the greatest possible degree of perfection, while in turn, maintaining greater inner stability, could therefore anticipate, to the standard which would seem to be foreknowledge, in the perceptions of less evolved, less perfect, less wise entities.

Death is not your problem; quite the opposite. You have to contend with being eternal; of never being able to end it; of always having to go on. You are not here to be happy; to enjoy yourself in this world. You're here to suffer and endure various forms of negativity and emotional deprivation as a necessary means to a valuable end. Don't expect things to go well but sometimes they will. Freewill cause and effect aren't actually how things work. for example The idea of tit for tat, "to have a friend, be a friend", is bogus. Don't expect the world to be fair and just or anything close to it... What's really happening here is the playing out of a scenario. Life isn't impromptu or without meaning; you don't make it up as you go along according to your interaction with universal law. That it may seem to unfold that way, as if it were true, is a convincing illusion. It has already been written. You have no say in the matter and cannot escape your fate but that also means it is idiot and coward proof, you cannot fail to achieve your ultimate goal, which is your entire reason for being here. People, in general, are ignoble. They are unappreciative, greedy, exploitative, dishonest, and larcenous. Even when honest, they confuse that which they are convinced of with that which they know. You are not in a position to know what is really going on; nor is anyone else. Be certain that no one has free will and may not even be sentient. They may just be NPC's but you can never know either way. This life of yours is most likely an illusion. You are not autonomous; you are not your own man. Your thoughts occur to you; you do not create them. The values you have the actions you take and the emotions you feel aren't determined by you. You're here to have a course of experience that seasons you. Opposites can not exist apart from each other; they are mutually dependent. The best you can hope for is that all this is a necessary means to a valuable end; that you are here to familiarize yourself with negativity to fully appreciate positivity when the time for that arrives but don't expect that to be in this life as Uncle Bob; though you will have your rest bits and consolations.

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

I could object to that, people can dream only what they experience in a real world, in some shape, form or sensation. Does this mean. if people would never experience anything bad, we couldn't have any nightmares or we could feel scared and suffer agony even if our entire life was all good?

Again you guys are treating god like a machine. He is not forced to know everything in the future. He can choose not to know something about the future. Wheater he will choose to know some future events or not it depends on his other attributes and values, like love, feeling of justice, and so on... but it also depends on his purpose....

God is outside of time and space! He saw the fall of man before it happened! Before creation, He put the redemptive plan together! The appex of all of human history is His redemptive plan! He wanted a family that LOVED Him, not a family of robots that had no free-will! God saw with His foreknowledge what each of us would do with our free-will (especially in regards to the decision we will make concerning the redemptive work of His Son Jesus)! Based on our free-will decision He then predestines us to be vessels fit for wrath or vesses fit for glory!

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

WOW!!

Coming up next: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

JEHOVAH PREDETERMINED THE REPROBATES WHO DENY JESUS AS LORD FOR HELLFIRE AND DESTRUCTION!!!!! 🙌🙏✝️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

@Ploskkky

4 жыл бұрын

of course.... All caps , excessive use of emoticons, religious fanaticism, preachy.... all the symptoms are present. Should I call a psychiatrist?

@johnbrzykcy3076

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ploskkky I can't tell you whom to call. The necessity of Free Will be your guide.

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ploskkky just trolling, bro

Robert Lawrence Kuhn, Predestination seems blatantly worse. According to whom? Humans? Unfortunately you're looking at the whole situation from the wrong perspective. Which is from a human perspective. Now, analyzing this from the Creator's/God's perspective, things look a lot different. What we know is that God created angels who are immortal spirits, then He created humans and then animals. When God created humans He created them in a different situation from the spirits and the animals. The animals are mostly instinctual, whereas the humans are a combination of instinctual and free will. The humans were created in a particular situation and told not to do something but they did it anyway and suffered the consequences. They were cast out of paradise and suffered weakness and death. The Messiah came to save us, offer life in abundance, and redeem us to God the Father. Those who will be saved are those who God the Father elected. The Messiah speaks of those whom God the Father has given to Him. This is classic Predestination but this doesn't mean that the individual doesn't have free will. The individual does indeed have free will granted it is limited in scope. Also keep in mind that God is the Creator and as such God is not obliged to save everyone. The animals are not immortal. They can't even contemplate the after life. Some of the Spirits/Angels who were cast out of heaven and are in hell will eventually be destroyed along with the non-saved humans. Just like the animals are destroyed when they die so is everything in this known universe which is being created and destroyed. This all goes back to the Potter and the pot in Jeremiah 18. We just have to know and be aware of our role in this known and created universe.

You seem to be confused . God has foreknowledge of your free will and therefore knows what will happen. There is no contradiction. Also I have noticed you have spoken to many about consciousness but not sure anyone gave you a good answer. Buddha said in the end dont depend on anybody you are your own light. If you want to know what is consciousness seek it on your own. Nobody can take you there. You will need to self verify. None of your famous Ai people made any sense to me they are confused and wrapped in their own self gratifying answer.

The theoretical gymnastics that theologians engage in around this subject is embarrassing. This is the opposite of critical thinking. They build complex bodies of work that accept as a given the existence of an anthrocentric God. Their torturous reasoning makes then look foolish and pre-modern. Certainly theologians bring us no closer to the truth.

@joshheter1517

4 жыл бұрын

You use a lot of big words here in what amounts to nothing more than childish mocking with no substance.

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist what does any of this crap have to do with the topic at hand?

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist you say a lot without saying anything of real substance. Typical sophistry. 🙌🙏✝️

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist you're a martyr for jesus, the little yeshua. Tell me, would you kill for christ? Would you murder someone if a voice in your head - that you believe to be yahweh - told you to?

@Joshua-dc1bs

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist I'm going to take that as a "yes". Should I call a psychiatrist?

LOL @ human judgement of GOD.

@NoMementoMori

4 жыл бұрын

Got any actual arguments rather than just claiming that no matter how irrational the God-Belief might become we cant draw the logical conclusions about it? Considering many humans constantly try to tell me what god thinks about abortion and homosexuality, drawing the logical conclusion that Gods foreknowledge erases free will is really not that crazy as you make it out to be. But hey if you had actual arguments you would have brought them up.

@goldentwilight1944

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoMementoMori (I think), God does not predetermine our choices, but he does know what we will choose. It seems a small difference, but the difference is really as large as a chasm. Why then create us in the first place? if he knew we would make bad choices? Well creation (creativity) is an attribute of goodness, so it's not like he had much choice in that case.

@goldentwilight1944

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it is strange how people criticize God for a lack of intervention, but are seemingly unaware of the chasm between man and God.

@NoMementoMori

4 жыл бұрын

@@goldentwilight1944 He does. He doesnt just "know what we will choose", he creates us to make these certain choices by creating us a certain way knowing it will lead to the certain choices "we" make. Yes the difference is large i agree, its a difference wether you just can see into the future, or wether you created it. This simply only applies to a God, someone who has created us, has full power to create us in an infinite number of ways, and all-knowing so he knows what his way of creating us in a certain way will make out of us. Free will in this context makes no sense, since he couldve impossibly created us a certain way without knowing what we would do. Since a god is also allmighty, he would have the choice to create us in an infinite number of ways all of which leading to different choices. If you imagine time like a branch of a tree, he created and choose the one we are in right now, because he knew what creating us with our unique characteristics and our own unique environment would make us choose. It simply makes no sense to believe in free will and god at the same time.

@goldentwilight1944

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoMementoMori Ok I can see how what you are saying would make sense if God and man were stuck in the same space-time, I think it's only a contradiction if you see God as a genie in a bottle or leprechaun type figure confined to human logic and literal or mental cause and effect. But it's much bigger than that.

Calvin was not a very nice fellow. I often wonder if Hitler gets off the hook or did he go to hell? Its hard for me to believe God did not have foreknowledge and if he did then Hitler should be in Heaven with the totality of humanity. If he didn't have foreknowledge then he is not the God of Judeo-Christian belief. Matthew 6.26 comes to mind (from the Sermon on the Mount). See the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you of much more value than they? Sounds like Jesus believed that God was "everywhere" and taking care of all existence. All reality. of course I got that from an English translation and maybe something was lost in translation. Basically, if God exists, we all go to Heaven. Even Hitler. Even my boss! Anything else would mean God is not all good (cutting off your foreknowledge and allowing evil things to happen is not good behaviour) or - he doesn't exist. FD: I have no philosophy or Theology degrees but I was brought up a catholic. P.S. Does the Bible suggest that God is not the cause of every event (except for that tiny little space for Hitler and Stalin to kill millions?) Or are theologians like Anselm just thinking / hoping / justifying this subject.

Not to mention the bible doesnt say God causes all actions. Thats poor calvanism theology.

In adam and eve case, the fact that they had free will was manifest in the opportunity to use it by choosing to go against gods command not to eat from the tree. God knew what choices the had. He did not know what they will choose. How come, is he not all knowing? Yes, but he is bound by his values. He had no reason to doubt his creation. He created them good, and he had no reason use his power of foreknowledge to analyse their future decisions ...

God must be very bored knowing how things will develop. Like seeing the same movie for the second time. So why god forbade the first couple certain things, if he knew they were going to dissobey him. To test them? What for? Dad leaves a jar of cookies on the table and before going to work, tell his son (who is not able to distinguish good from evil) not to eat any -knowing that he will eat the cookies anyway. He comes back to the house also knowing he will punish him and knowing that his childten and his children's children will be born "imperfect" because his dissobedience. So he kicks the son out of the house. Where is the "infinite wisdom"? Teaching is better than punishing. The story is absurd.

It's not so much god knowing what you'll do from day to day but he knows how you will end up so may create people for hell.

IF YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT FREE WILL MEANS.. STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. THINK OF FREE WILL LIKE A GAME WHERE.. 100 PEOPLE PLAY.. THE FIRST PERSON HAS 1 CHOICE. THE SECOND HAS 2, THIRD HAS 3 THE FORTIETH PERSON HAS 40. THE 100TH PERSON HAS 100 CHOICES. GOD HAS 100! (FACTORIAL) + INFINITE. A NORMAL HUMAN BEING HAS THE FREE WILL OF A DICE. MAGICIAN CAN SEE A DECK OF CARDS OF CHOICES.. YOUR LEVEL OF CONTROL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU MANIPULATE AND CONTROL YOUR "FREE WILL".. BY THE WAY.. WHAT IS FREE WILL TO YOU ? DO ANIMALS HAVE FREE WILL ?.. ARE YOU IN THE STONE AGE TO ASK SUCH QUESTIONS ?? DEAR GOD! SUCH ANNOYING QUESTION MAKES ME FEEL WITHOUT FREE WILL.. BECAUSE I FEEL TO COMPELLED TO SAY SOMETHING SO YOU CAN WAKE UP.. AND JUST KNOW NOTHING IS REAL.. TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE. SO CLOSER TO TRUTH IS PARADOX..

You really have to let go of this old person God idea. No conflict at all between human freewill and so called God foreknowledge. "God" is not a person in space and time. God by definition is all and timeless. All occurs IN God, but isn't God. Humans experience limitations in time and space, God doesn't have these limitations although the appearance of space, time, matter, and a separate you occurs in "God". Both phenomena can exist simultaneously.😊

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

If god knows if he will intervene let us say, at, November 17 at 10:29 am does he have the freewill to change that intervention? If he does then why didn’t he have the foreknowledge to see he wasn’t changing and if he doesn’t then does he really have freewill?

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

@@TomAnderson_81 God is outside our dimension, so why would it matter? It's about unknown future to us that is known to him, if he change his mind, than our future will include his small correction. Your question is valid, except you can't impose human conscious over divine mind. Here's a better version. God decide to intervene and simply erase all memories of miracle from people's minds, like they did in that stupid Man in black movie.

@TomAnderson_81

4 жыл бұрын

Xspot box Can freewill survive gods foreknowledge? Yes or no and if yes, how do you know?

@xspotbox4400

4 жыл бұрын

@@TomAnderson_81 I know because matter is simple, only conscious beings can do imagination. Matter is real, imagination is subjective force with quantum like properties. We can make matter do various border line physics phenomena, maybe this is nature's way to rationalize and control entropy.

Well, if we assume that we are living in a multidimensional space and time continuum, Then any freewill is just another branch of time, space and possibility. The creature that you are calling God must be seeing all the branches and the possibilities of these freewill and affecting each other and creating other possibilities. So normally the god will not bother with the things going around. As one shlok from the Hindu religious book Geeta says, Yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharata Abhythanamadharmasya tadatmanam srijamyaham This can be understood as, God is saying, when things really starts to go wrong then only I step in otherwise I let it run through its natural course. So there is free will but it's all under the radar. And an awesome thought is, free will is still bound by the natural laws of nature. So technically, there is very little space for free will to work. And one other thing, your videos are to much human centric. I mean, can you imagine that the every cell in your body is working due to its free will. Every creature in this world is working or living because of their will. God never asked you to live. 🙂

@arpit.s

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist Scientific definitions for self-combustion The process of burning. A chemical change, especially through the rapid combination of a substance with oxygen, producing heat and, usually, light. I am not sure what you meant by self combination there. I am assuming that you are saying that I think system is self reliant, then, yes I think so.

@arpit.s

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist I tried a search on KZread, 'Razi Zachariah self combustion'. Nothing popped up, I am not sure what shall I search for. Can you point to the right direction

@NoMementoMori

4 жыл бұрын

The problem that i see here is that you dont really draw any differences between God and the laplacesche demon. God doesnt just know it all, like your branches, but he created everything and thus your branches. He effectively choosed which branch will be the reality he creates, since hes all-knowing hed always knew how his creation aka. the branches would turn out. In this case that would mean that all the other branches are not really a possibility, they could have never been true. Even if you would try to act different, he would have known at the start of the creation that you would do, effectively creating you to act in this different way now. Its kinda like the Free Will vs. Determinism debate again, do we have a free will when no other reality could have ever been true?

@arpit.s

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoMementoMori I understand that the God which we are referring here is the most supream being. So even the demon are also his creation one way or another. So we don't need to comprehend what comes in the jurisdiction of God or not. But as you are saying, there is possibility for only branch. I would like to argue on that. I will say that we can observe only one branch, the one which we individually are at (time & space). Because we are regularly passing through one moment to another. Making decisions and experiencing something new every moment which is called the present. So, i don't know right now if you are going to reply back to this comment or not. For God, he sees it like there are two possibilities at least, you reply or you don't, both are part of separate reality, which one I will experience is still unknown to him too, but he sees both the possibilities and their next possible outcomes. I hope, you can see how this universe provide a free will to every one so they can choose any path they want, yet every path is already known to God. This also, strengthen my point God will not interfere with the on going process, because he will see that every thing that is happening is our own doing, so we shall experience the outcome on our own. Because he is seeing the other possibilities too where things may be different.

@arpit.s

4 жыл бұрын

@Martyr4JesusTheChrist well, I checked the link you provided. I will say, it's rubish. For example, just try Google translate for the word he used "Prajapati". I am not saying that I am wrong or right. But the thing is, people are following other people and believing what they say without even doing a little bit of investigation. My friend, thank you for the link. But it's not worth it.

Free will, or Libertarian Free Will, does not exist. We have the illusion of free will. Every decision we make, every choice we are presented, we either choose based on preconceptions and prior beliefs, or it’s random. In either case, no free will is apparent. The illusion of free comes into play as we are able to think that if we could have chose differently, that means we had the ability to choose differently. However, that can never the case as we cannot go back to make a different decision, but that decision we made will influence the next decision, and next one after that, which means no free will.

Why does it need to take world's greatest thinkers to provide the obvious answer? Just because God has the ability to foreknow the future, it doesn't mean God uses this ability all the time... It's just like I can watch a prerecorded live tennis match from the beginning, even though I have the ability to fast-forward the match all the way to the end first and find out the result...

🤣🤣🤣🤣 blatantly unfair

Reality will always trump fantasy

This is all just fantasy. Those theologians do not know that. They couldn't possibly know that.

Is Kuhn seriously asking questions to get closer to truth ? Or is he trolling the masses of armchair philosophers for more subscribers. Would think Kuhn is an intellectual grownup and knows some of these people he interviews are full of gibberish

Laughable. Absolutely laughable that a good chuck of humanity still believe in an all-powerful, omniscient and infallible god. Trying to find free will in such mess is like trying to determine how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. It just doesn't work. But hey, go ahead spin your philosophical wheels all you like if that's what makes you happy.