I mean if you were going to copyright the Moonwalk you wouldn't be paying Michael Jackson, you would be paying Jeffrey Daniel from the 80's group Shalamar who taught the 'backslide' to MJ. And some would even argue that Jeffrey Daniel got inspiration from James Brown, and so it goes on and on. This is absolutely ridiculous.💜

@addy8078

24 күн бұрын

Actually Bill Bailey was doing the moonwalk/backslide in the 1950s, it’s been around for a long time!

@Imme_begin

24 күн бұрын

The moonwalk was first recorded before MJ was born (or close to the time he was born, and who know, it may have been around before that recording. I agree this concept is ridiculous. I CAN see copyrighting an entire choreo, but that’s it. 😊

@subobing3551

24 күн бұрын

Great point!!!

@LPnerd

24 күн бұрын

nope James Brown did they moonwalk first as far as I know, he was the first. Also, there is a difference between copy and inspiration.

@duraaedavis1416

24 күн бұрын

MJ watched classic b&w films/musicals studying Fred Astaire. If you watch FA dance then everyone owes their dance to him. It is a difficult subject matter. 💜

Kpop is having a hard realization that it is not as original as everyone pretends it is. I welcome the reality check and more pay/credit for choreographers.

@kimjeon_2016

24 күн бұрын

On what planet do those people live on? K-Pop copies Hip-Hop, Rap, R&B, and other ethnic musical sounds!

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

@@kimjeon_2016 It rarely "copies". It takes "inspiration" and do their own thing with it. Nothing comes from nothing. Everything has an inspiration. Yes, a lot of inspiration comes from Western genres (that includes European ones like classical music, too). Specifically Hiphop and R&B are to be named here. But - in part because Korean has it's own language melody - it is different, too. You are right that they should more often credit (and pay) for music samples from e.g. Black artists.

@SAnn1747

24 күн бұрын

Yea because the dances come from other countries… lets be real

@LPnerd

23 күн бұрын

Big Hit people are paid very well. You know this by the fact that job turnover rate is nil, plus, all of their staff in production, directing, choreo, and teachers, plus T and D are ALL still there. Also, Suga tells them publicly staff should be paid even more, LOL. So does RM.

@leteflondondu92

15 күн бұрын

@@kimjeon_2016 funny part is lots of these music(hiphop for exemple) draw influence from others cultures too.did you know breakdacing moves come from kung fu movies?

Music and dance are a SHARED experience and should be about artistic expression …Mhj just made all of this less enjoyable..I feel sorry for choreographers…

@Umla80

24 күн бұрын

its choreographers that asked for the law if you listened to the start of the video she explains it not MHJ.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

@@Umla80 True. It is also because choreographers get ignored a lot. But MHJ is the one who is trying to copyright "simple" and "common" movements which is different and can not be done. Those are two different things but are both the reason why the question is interesting in the first place: - fairness to the hard work of choreographers - MHJ that claims everyone is copying choreography snippets that she "owns": especially specific to Illit "copying" NJ (but also other HYBE artists copying NJ and her former work) The last is probably why this question got asked in the first place.

As a OLD retired dancer, I can attest to what you have said here. You have it 100% correct! Thanks!

@SilverSeaOT7

23 күн бұрын

I trained for ten years in various forms of dance a lifetime ago. Now in my 60s. Only performed locally but I loved it. Life took me down another path but I still love and appreciate all dance. That is actually how I found BTS. I was looking for dance routines to help me relax after a stressful day. When I hit on Black Swan that was it. Went down to the ocean floor with them and ended up in the BTS rabbit hole!

Thanks for this update! 👍 Another knock-out punch to clarify MHJ public facade and crazy diversionary tactics to protect her CEO position as well as financial interests.🤪🎯

I'm amazed at how quickly you answered this burning question that's recently been on the minds of many and it was explained at the appropriate pace and with great clarity! I thank you so much! Finding your channel has really been one of life's wonderful gifts❣️

Your videos are always interesting & so informative. But more importantly, I FINALLY found out what 3:33 was referring to!🙄😄😄😄 Also, if hip thrusting was copyrighted, it would literally be the end of mankind, so we know that one's not gonna happen🤭🫣😁... and hopefully not hip swinging, either... otherwise, we larger hipped gals wouldn't be able to walk anywhere!😄

@celiabirung3524

24 күн бұрын

So intelligently said! Down to earth and Yes funny but TRUE!😂😂😂

I said this somewhere else and I will say it again - I think most choreographers are better off unionizing and demanding better pay and more conspicuous credit than pursuing copyright. Also, unlike ballet routines which the general public simply observes, k-pop dances are meant to be mimicked by the general public. Placing restrictions on it might not give them the effect the think it will. Edit: I looked into it and apparently South Korean labour laws are not that great. They can't strike and not be sued for damages by the employer amongst other things. So forming a union may not be that empowering either. But for places that have favourable labour laws, I think unionizing would be better.

@maryr1905

24 күн бұрын

Right - would they demand royalties from all of the TikTok dance challenges?

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

That should also be done for dancers. Some dancers in Idol music barely get their costs covered.

@suga_rush

23 күн бұрын

​@@maryr1905 Well, they plan to but I don't think it's that simple. I'm not a lawyer, just a rando on the internet interested in legal issues but this is what I think - If it comes under 'work-for-hire' , i.e. the label hired the choreographer to set a routine to the song, then the label would probably own the copyright anyway. Choreographers who set a routine independently could own the copyright to that routine. However, owning a copyright doesn't automatically mean making more money. There are a lot of scenarios where this could not work out. It's even more complicated that they are dependant on the use of another copyrighted work - music.

@suga_rush

23 күн бұрын

​@@ruthfischer7615 Unions are great for any issues for a trade. However, I made an edit to my original comment and it looks like that might not be a decent option in SK.

This is a double edged sword and just a horrible idea.

@livingsweetly5481

24 күн бұрын

Not at all; it protects complete works and gives the freedom necessary for artistic expression.

If people do copyrights on choreographies then the public can no longer do Kpop dance covers and post then on social media like IG,FB, YT, TIKTOK etc. right? I thought it was a thing nowadays for KPOP, especially the dance challenge so the fans trend and dance to their songs.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

Those K-pop Covers have been done for a while before this. Possibly Gangnam Style "covers" were big already. But I think it became more common when BTS began winning in social media - but maybe some did it before that. IDK. But at the moment K-pop is trying to own their power in soft power. Out of control it is used by MHJ to "prove" that Illit (and others) are copying NJ (and perhaps her former work under SM). She is trying to win in "court of public opinion".

there is no way they can copyright individual step/move which already exists before the choreography is created, dance is derived from sooooo many places, and cultures around the world over time.

Specific moves are like a letter or syllable. The whole choreograpphy is like a poem.

Ooohhh.. a double post. Thanks

I think this was a really important lesson

From a legal perspective, you did a great job explaining and educating your viewers.* Excellent work! *The above statement does not constitute legal advice.

Legendary 3:33 🔥

One of the weirdest aspects of this is that, as I understand it, 1 Million Dance as a business majors on teaching cover versions of k-pop choreographies such as BTS’s Idol, Not Today etc. Maybe I’m misunderstanding it but it seems a bit odd for one of their leaders to be pushing for stricter policing of copyright in this field.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

It seems to be done to get money from international people "covering" K-pop dances and e.g. tach it in dance studios for profit. But you are right that it is odd as it can backlash on them, too. What would work is if they also do their own choreography for stuff and want that protected.

*Like you said using many moves taken from many people and then doing a unique thing is what everyone should do like BTS did, no one was born knowing everything, we learn a little at a time and it all depends on how we use what we learn but today many people don't want to "break their heads" to do something unique since we have so many viral things and the thing is that many think they can get away with it but we have many cases of copyrights.*

Dance is truly a hand-me-down-art form in which everything has been done before… I totally agree with everything you said and Thank You so much for this. Also I hope people will understand that anyone who use moves or dances affiliated with an artists (like Michael Jackson) they are clearly paying homage to that person which is a sincere way of honoring someone’s artistry!

You're fantastic! So many knowledge and information in your videos. I always learn something new. 👏👏👏👏

It's going to be a mess. One step one regaly? Whaaaaat?

Pretty much just common sense to not copy a whole dance, especially an iconic move. But who cares about inbetweens? Everyone is generic as heck anyways

@Irene-ws9kk

24 күн бұрын

I think the term ‘iconic move’ is also a hidden trap tho, cos the move could be made up of steps that already existed but just didn’t blow up in another songs for example, so I mean, just because a move was iconic in one song that is more well known doesnt necessarily mean the copyright belongs to them… there’s a lot of traps / confusion people could fall into.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

MHJ. She uses it to claim Illit (and other HYBE artists) are copying NJ. So people went on the run to "prove" her "right". Funny sidestory. Someone claimed that Gangnam Style stole - among other things - the choreo from a Japanese tire commercial. Aparently there is a video that shows where Psy actually got the moves from when he put them himself together in a new way.

This is very very enlightening. I learned A LOT!! Thank you sooo much for this💜💜💜

Hi Fairlane! Thanx a lot for your updates and content. Today some news reports have resurfaced that the KCCA has actually started investigation into the 2017 chart rigging allegations of BTS and they may enlist the help of some insiders of the industry and other agencies in order to conduct an indepth investigation. How real are these reports? Its so disappointing and frustrating if true.

@pheonix9929

24 күн бұрын

What....Is this for real😢

@AsianEntertainmentandCulture

24 күн бұрын

it's the same source which only said someone submitted a complaint but it didn't mean they will be investigated. they are probably recycling news to bury the Min Heejin plagiarism NewJeans scandal and to get more clicks.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

@@AsianEntertainmentandCulture Funny. Someone else wrote that the KCCA (?) already dimissed the original question. Is that true? IDK.

@AsianEntertainmentandCulture

23 күн бұрын

@@ruthfischer7615 they never started any investigation. nothing to dismiss. those are recycled news.

@pheonix9929

23 күн бұрын

​​​@@AsianEntertainmentandCultureWhat is wrong with this source? Why is Hybe not taking any action against this. This is clearly defamation for BTS, especially when all the members are in military, Honestly I hate Hybe and that Bang pd, its all because of his stupid trust in MHJ. Hybe is literally throwing BTS under the bus and we armys are watching this.....Every one is mocking BTS's success, even the other countries news channels are reporting this which is ruining BTS's name. What can we armys do to protect BTS?

Always helpful to me as usual😊

Thank you for enlightening us 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 you are the best 😊 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

Thank you for this!

Following this logic there should be no more new art, designs, games, movies, books and fashion🤦‍♀

I love choreography! I do think it’s a waste of time and resources. Every culture takes something from each other, nobody, not just one person can say they created a move or routine on their own, inspiration, ideas all come from each other. It’s ridiculous to ask to copy right a routine or movement.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

The full choreography is a little different. Choreographers till now get a little neglegtet as it is nor is their pay that good. I read a few posts about it. Like a frustrated choreographer that saw a HYBE group train their choreographer in side material posted for them. (it was just a glimps, training for dance, the group had not debuted, yet, and they naturally debuted with different choreographies) But I don't know how relevant the arugments are.

@WilliamsAK07

21 күн бұрын

@@ruthfischer7615 why try own a routine when the moves are created by someone else? Also she copied parts of routines but still cries she’s being copied? 😂😂😂

@ruthfischer7615

20 күн бұрын

@@WilliamsAK07 True.

Can you do a study of the phenomenon of the media reporting or acting like a fandom and where the line is crossed, who really controls the narrative etc.

@whk3120

23 күн бұрын

Is AI a good or bad option

Question: Artist post dance challenges and mirrored dance practices. The dance practices help fans learn the choreography of the dance and the challenges are with and against other artist. Both help promote with promoting. If this law is passed how will it affect those challenges and practices?

@AsianEntertainmentandCulture

24 күн бұрын

if the choreography was paid for by an artist or the artist's management, then it's owned by the label. earnings will go to the artist/label

If, the Mexican group Jeans decide to sue NJ, who is liable? MHJ or BPD?

@AsianEntertainmentandCulture

24 күн бұрын

ADOR

@thecopycatcustomvintage

24 күн бұрын

I'd imagine neither of them is personally liable. It would be the business and since MHJ has claimed over and over again publicly that NJs was ALL HER, she (ADOR) would get sued. Although Hybe is ultimately on the hook for any damages. Confusing enough? 🤣

@jhingsoy5876

24 күн бұрын

It's ADOR, however, since MHJ is the CEO and main reason for claiming publicly the so called "my original concept" .,. ... legal issues my be applied coz she used it as legal public battle between sub-label ADOR vs parent HYBE.

Ideas and Expressions are not formed in a vaccum but within a cultural context. If you protect to much you limit the growth of this culture. Goethe and Schiller did write in a high competive environment with not copyright protection. The writers and book printer needed yo come up with new ideas every week and the "Land der Dichter und Denker" (country of poets and thinkers e.i. Germany) came to it's name. During the same time copywrited protective Britain was no competitor for cultural evolution and gain. So I am against prolonged copywrite protection. I think 5 years after publication should be lobg enough to make money.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

too short

Working so hard Orange Crush, thank you so much

Copyright of dance is so stupid 😅. It doesn’t make sense.

Dance should not be copy righted.

I think this will eventually harm more groups & artists than it will do good

Would be better to develop rnaming rights rules similar to gymnysts. Meet certain criteria for new moves, then move can be named after you. Like MJs moonwalk.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

except there we get itnto the same trouble: MJ popularized the Moonwalk but did not invent it

To copyright choreography is stupid. Crazy. Just because of a crazy woman

Then that copyright has to be a 50 page thing cause of all the complications that can happen. Like will covers be allowed? Who gets the money? Kpop gg are all doing the same arm swishes and hip shakes so... fine line.

💜

Question.. where does that leave groups doing covers of other groups? I never have understood the whole cover at awards shows song, choreo and even outfits. Seems ick to me, too much. Ty!!

@ficnonnie6006

24 күн бұрын

Likely similar to covers of songs. There's a lot that goes into performance and composition royalties, etc. Choreo would likely behave the same way

I agree that entire blocks or performances should be able to be protected, but I am sad that it has come to this. Isn’t dance an iterative process, isn’t any modern dance built on prior work? How do you disentangle this? It’s a Gordian knot in my opinion.

@maryr1905

24 күн бұрын

I agree - how stifling for someone doing freestyle dance if they would have to worry about every "block" of their dance possibly being identified as under copyright protection.

I'd just watched a choreographer interview that brought up the topic of getting royalties rather than work for hire. I honestly can see points for. Every other creative gets that right.

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

But does that only work when the training is paid for or does it also work when it is self-studied or not paid for? And where are the limits? Because if no money is involved - someone e.g. sits down and paints the Mona Lisa - but does not claim it is the original - for an "art class" - do you need to pay a fee, too? Usually you don't, do you?

@ficnonnie6006

21 күн бұрын

@@ruthfischer7615 I think you're missing the point. Ideally, dance choreography royalties would work like any other creative work's royalties, including fair use, the option of work for hire (the current status quo), etc. Painted art, like you're mentioning, film art, the song the dance is for, all of those have already sorted out how this stuff could or should work for different kinds of uses. A whole piece of choreography could slot into a similar, even near-identical framework with little difficulty, if all the parties involved were willing to do it. The songwriters and producers and performers all get royalties on the song (unless they do work for hire). Giving the choreographer royalties on the choreo isn't any different than giving the songwriter royalties on the song. Do people sing or play songs on the internet or in educational settings? yes. The use case already exists for creative works. There's no gotcha in that.

@ruthfischer7615

20 күн бұрын

@@ficnonnie6006 From my understanding this would be the whole choreography for the song. I have no idea how that would work for sections and how ong they would have to be minimum to be "copyrighted". Because most of the time it is not that unique except if it is really long like the whole song. But overall you are right. I was just interested in the more exact parts of it. (and I had forgotten about "Fair Use" - but is when I use it to train dancing itself "Fair Use" if the artist trained is supposed to be/become professional?)

@ficnonnie6006

17 күн бұрын

@@ruthfischer7615 Fair use cases include educational purposes, so yes it would likely be fine.

@ruthfischer7615

16 күн бұрын

@@ficnonnie6006 Thank you!

If this falls under the Korean copyright association, I wonder how the artists in the voting block feel about it. I don't know how many male artists are on it, but I do know BoA, IU, and Soyeon are voting members and all three are skilled dancers, as well as buds with many choreographers. I appreciate this video that pretty well defines the territory; but I still wonder if there's an argument from the professionals that's more on the side of protectiing more parts of dance.

All of this because mhj was spewing garbage out of her mouth accusing groups of plagiarizing njs? So I have a question. If that group Jeans decides mhj plagiarized their everything and decided to sue her, would they sue her, or Ador, or Hybe?

@Mori-Chan613

24 күн бұрын

Ador

Oh, So 1Million Dance are doing steps to copyright their dance moves or the other choreography from different studios decide to do a copyright then?

👍 👍

If an artist pays a choreographer to create their dance and then get sued for copying of some sort, is the artist liable alone, or would the choreographer also be on the hook?

@AsianEntertainmentandCulture

24 күн бұрын

Usually, in a creative work, the one who gets hired needs to sign a document attesting that whatever they produce is their original work and whatever liability in terms of infringement will fall on them even after the work is turned over to the one who is paying for it.

Whole Kpop industry will be sued then 😂

imagine doja cat using some step when some kpop group has.She will laugh at loud of this

Out of context So one of my friend travelled to South Korea recently and guess what even NOW majority of the koreans are believing MHJ😢😢😢. She said public are the one who is pressuring reinvestigation of those old cases of our Bangtan. Seems like they would even 'degrade 'Bts for supporting New jeans . This situation is reallly messed up guyzz. I am sacred for tannies now.

@fadilaalidu5170

23 күн бұрын

The gp have no hold over BTS

Me first ...

Me encantan tus videos. Te informas muy bien. Sobretodo los que se refieren a BTS. Bendiciones.

Give me a break… Kpop dancing is literally the same moves over and over. There are only many dances you can do.

This was again another awesome video. If anyone wishes to copy BTS performance...they can certainly try...if anyone can perform their choreography as good as they do...good luck....you may copy the steps but excellent execution not everyone can do like BTS.

Respect to BTS idol, always crediting the african moves and their names since the beginning.

I have never heard of such nonsense~ the dance moves that all dancers make have been done over and over for decades, maybe longer~ who in their right mind can claim they are the original owner of any move? Hahaha, nope. The human body can only move in so many ways ~ 😂😂

ATEEZ driving car dance move

@ruthfischer7615

24 күн бұрын

that is probably not very new... I mean even BTS had one in "Boy in Luv".

Who would have the right to copyright a BTS dance performance in its entirety - BTS, Hybe or the choreographers?

K-pop is not original at all