Bitcoin Q&A: Can You Trust a Hardware Wallet to Generate Your Seed?

Ғылым және технология

Can hardware wallets be trusted to generate seeds for you? What are the risks of trusting these devices? How can you use them securely without making things too complex and causing yourself more problems?
Chapters
0:00 How can we minimize the amount of trust that we put in third parties?
2:37 How do we trust the seeds that are generated on these devices?
4:20 If you were to put millions of dollars in these devices, you probably need to take some precautions
This question is from the bonus Q&A session on security, which took place on March 28th, 2020. If you want early-access to talks and a chance to ask questions in the monthly live Q&As with Andreas, become a Community Builder on Patreon: / aantonop
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Andreas M. Antonopoulos is a best-selling author, speaker, educator, and highly sought after expert in Bitcoin and open blockchain technologies. Andreas has written two best-selling technical books for programmers, “Mastering Bitcoin” and “Mastering Ethereum”. He has published “The Internet of Money” series of books, which focus on the social, political, and economic importance and implications of these technologies. He is known for making complex subjects easy to understand and highlighting both the positive and negative impacts these technologies can have on our global societies.
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Пікірлер: 104

  • @SocraticMethodGuy
    @SocraticMethodGuy4 жыл бұрын

    This man is a hero plus genius

  • @abedrole7512
    @abedrole75124 жыл бұрын

    0:40 "Trying to do elliptic curve multiplication or hashing by pencil & paper is probably too difficult for most people" => Like this comment if you think he did just that for his own wallet xD

  • @Juznik1389

    @Juznik1389

    4 жыл бұрын

    Hah, was about to write it! And only need to do it once too. I'm tempted

  • @Redreynard
    @Redreynard Жыл бұрын

    It's May 2023. The middle of the Ledger backdoor controversy. And I was not happy. But this video has helped me calm down a bit. .... I think that Ledger should make Andreas their press spokeman!

  • @Nuf1337
    @Nuf13374 жыл бұрын

    How do you trust your pen?

  • @timurtimak6372

    @timurtimak6372

    4 жыл бұрын

    How do you trust yourself?)

  • @Blackwingsss

    @Blackwingsss

    4 жыл бұрын

    What if im mindcontrolled by 5G

  • @cococrypto1381

    @cococrypto1381

    4 жыл бұрын

    Especially if its name is Lepen.

  • @Juznik1389

    @Juznik1389

    4 жыл бұрын

    You can't, the angle of the led, the pressure asserted on the pens led and grip can be measured against the persons regular writing and recreated with enough combinations to get the correct characters🤯😁

  • @MitchellCallahan

    @MitchellCallahan

    3 жыл бұрын

    Using a dice roll and writing it on paper.

  • @chico280
    @chico2804 жыл бұрын

    Thank you! I've asked this question to myself numerous times.

  • @margoomahony9565
    @margoomahony95654 жыл бұрын

    great question, well explained as always. Thanks again AA.

  • @jllarivee60
    @jllarivee603 жыл бұрын

    Andreas should do a step by step tutorial on generating a seed by rolling dice or cards. That would be fun to watch.

  • @rickparker8036
    @rickparker80364 жыл бұрын

    Fantastic as always!

  • @cococrypto1381
    @cococrypto13814 жыл бұрын

    My advice is to check if your mnemotics are in a book and then write down the page, line and word number on a paper. Even someone find your paper, you will not have to worry. My second advice is to create a second mnemonic key and wallets and in case of emergency transfer all your assets on them.

  • @Kerrington_John

    @Kerrington_John

    3 ай бұрын

    Could you explain further ?

  • @bradmarcus26

    @bradmarcus26

    2 ай бұрын

    Horrible advice. They can check to see if you have done search engine searches for the word mneumonics as well as the books recommended.

  • @mrjam6767
    @mrjam67673 жыл бұрын

    very well layed out

  • @TheEVGAftw
    @TheEVGAftw4 жыл бұрын

    Great video, just got a trezor

  • @OscarHerrera-xc4to
    @OscarHerrera-xc4to3 жыл бұрын

    thanks bro!

  • @infatuationirony
    @infatuationirony4 жыл бұрын

    Great explanation! Would you consider doing a review on a non-open source BC-Vault wallet?

  • @MarceloRodrigues-ch1lv
    @MarceloRodrigues-ch1lv4 жыл бұрын

    excelent video

  • @willjensen4261
    @willjensen42614 жыл бұрын

    Thanks🤙

  • @azoresmarine
    @azoresmarine4 жыл бұрын

    Obrigado

  • @xmenmerex1376
    @xmenmerex13764 жыл бұрын

    I'm on Paper Wallet. Better than hardwares.

  • @baronsilverbaron757
    @baronsilverbaron7577 ай бұрын

    Excellent. I would think that by far the most losses come from user mistakes. The simpler the hard wallet the better.

  • @deaconjamesk
    @deaconjamesk4 жыл бұрын

    I have bought every one of Andreas' books They are awesome! 'The internet of things volume 3' just arrived and I will be reading it over the next couple weeks! Highly recommend guys and gals! I have a question for Andreas... 50 Times multiplier is the figure I have heard in this space for a while Can you explain why crypto has a 50 x Multiplier marketcap? a)What contributes to create that? b)Who sets it? c)Could the multiplier lower in the future?

  • @wrfootball3847

    @wrfootball3847

    4 жыл бұрын

    Mastering Bitcoin is incredible.

  • @PoppyRaid
    @PoppyRaid4 жыл бұрын

    Elliptic curve calculations “Probably” to difficult for most people 😂👏✌️

  • @televolna
    @televolna4 жыл бұрын

    Making our own seed phrase...if I am right it has checksum and must be created according certain rules. Or not?

  • @gumed85
    @gumed853 ай бұрын

    Respectfully, one should learn how to do all these steps to create an off-line seed, for the sole purpose of understanding the fundamentals, even if you are going to use a comercial hardwallet.

  • @irclaw42
    @irclaw424 жыл бұрын

    How do we know the manufacturer doesn't keep a copy of the mnemonic phrase?

  • @ChitranjanBaghiofficial
    @ChitranjanBaghiofficial4 жыл бұрын

    How does Digibyte's MultiShield works?

  • @TALKCalgary
    @TALKCalgary2 жыл бұрын

    Perhaps you should be discussing the issues with BIP39.

  • @izzylogan25
    @izzylogan252 жыл бұрын

    Some people are talking about diy cold wallet manufacture

  • @GiffysChannel
    @GiffysChannel Жыл бұрын

    What about using bitaddress on an air gapped device?

  • @rogernevez5187
    @rogernevez51874 жыл бұрын

    Is there a secure algorithm to generate private keys from a seed ???

  • @Mr25thfret
    @Mr25thfret2 жыл бұрын

    How about owning a hardware wallet, transfer your crypto to it then create a paper wallet to store the bulk of your crypto?

  • @sl523
    @sl5234 жыл бұрын

    Surprised you didn't include "optional passphrase"

  • @davids4063
    @davids40633 жыл бұрын

    Great answer Anton, and thank you! I have a few other questions. We have 2048 word for 12, 24, and 48 word mnemonic phrases. How many combinations are there? Are there more possible ways to create wallets than this? Will the world ever run out of private keys to be generated? Lastly, an observation, it seems as though one could attempt to use dice rolls or some other form of entropy to generate a new wallet, but then randomly generate an already used private key and accidentally discover someone elses bitcoin.

  • @localtribe2851

    @localtribe2851

    3 жыл бұрын

    Check his other video

  • @IrradioMan

    @IrradioMan

    Жыл бұрын

    You’d multiply 2048 by itself the number of times that’s the number of words in the mnemonic phrase.

  • @kimgaugemusic
    @kimgaugemusic10 ай бұрын

  • @biochemistry870
    @biochemistry8704 жыл бұрын

    If you manually generate your mnemonic phrase offline, you'll have to insert it into your hardware wallet to produce addresses right? So it will be exposed to hypothetical backdoors anyway. Or am I wrong?

  • @kloonaajakloonaaja

    @kloonaajakloonaaja

    4 жыл бұрын

    No. Hardware is offline device. You can test that the out puts are same, after using few sets on it and in some random web sites. If they match, it means that it's probably almost impossible for the hardware maker to get your account keys from their device, what they made for you. But testing is the key on this. Blind trust is not a good thing.

  • @ThedudeMMXlll
    @ThedudeMMXlll3 жыл бұрын

    Can you make a 2021 video plz.

  • @Ones_Complement
    @Ones_Complement6 ай бұрын

    How do you know the wallet is not generating a fake seed from your dice rolls with a private key already known by a malicious employee? If the answer is "you don't", is there a safer alternative?

  • @zorg621

    @zorg621

    3 ай бұрын

    There's a really great guide on their website on how you can verify it. Would recommend you checkout their docs and read the guide.

  • @billfrenger8955
    @billfrenger89553 ай бұрын

    Thank you Andreas. What if a government seizes the internet in it's jurisdiction and requires a government issued "Driver's License" in order to gain access?

  • @lordswaggity1213
    @lordswaggity12134 жыл бұрын

    I need dat SEED (:

  • @chrisone8283
    @chrisone82834 жыл бұрын

    What is wrong with Tails? I’ll take that any day over a black box which is connected to an internet device, not to mention it’s free

  • @Quantris

    @Quantris

    3 жыл бұрын

    Nothing is wrong with Tails per se but the point is Tails' threat model doesn't protect you from compromised hardware. It's also not newbie friendly so as a recommendation for newbies, "use a hardware wallet" is probably the winner.

  • @fromeddie
    @fromeddie4 жыл бұрын

    No!

  • @PietroSperonidiFenizio
    @PietroSperonidiFenizio4 жыл бұрын

    It's easy to make the first 23 words of the seed randomly. The problem is always the 24th. Could you give suggestions about that?

  • @norbertsimon4270

    @norbertsimon4270

    Жыл бұрын

    hmm Why? is the last word something like a sumcheck validating the combination? If so then the Total number of combinations is not 2048 on the 24th but "only" 2048 on the 23rd... well that is also big enough for me... :-)

  • @F16_viper_pilot

    @F16_viper_pilot

    8 ай бұрын

    @@norbertsimon4270Yes, the last word is partially a checksum. The first 3 most significant bits (as I recall) are computed from die rolls or coin flips or whatever, and the last 8 bits are a checksum.

  • @PoppyRaid
    @PoppyRaid4 жыл бұрын

    Andreas could you update to present day your confidence in a 51% attack on bitcoin , or is it tge sane result as from 2015. ? 😉Many thanks

  • @Covalent5

    @Covalent5

    4 жыл бұрын

    It’s even harder now! Impossible I would say.

  • @MitchellCallahan

    @MitchellCallahan

    3 жыл бұрын

    It already happened, and the result wasn’t nearly as bad as expected.

  • @andrewjeremysilke
    @andrewjeremysilke4 жыл бұрын

    Your logo is your hairline. Brilliant.

  • @Saribex
    @Saribex10 ай бұрын

    Well we can have our own entropy for our 24 words with 256 physical dice (1-3 is 0 , 4-6 is 0).

  • @F16_viper_pilot

    @F16_viper_pilot

    8 ай бұрын

    Eh, you might want to make one of these ranges equate to a 1.😬

  • @majmunbezgaca5220
    @majmunbezgaca52203 жыл бұрын

    ok i just have 1 question... what in case that something happens to ledger company and i end up with 24 phrase words and cant recover my coins from ledger... :/

  • @Quantris

    @Quantris

    3 жыл бұрын

    Wallets these days are all following a standard. So you can use these words with a different hardware wallet (or even software wallet) without issue.

  • @boyacaxa
    @boyacaxa4 жыл бұрын

    I have a question. This devices work with a battery? If so, how to recovery the bitcoins if the battery dies? Or if the device stops working?

  • @jllarivee60

    @jllarivee60

    4 жыл бұрын

    You're suppose to write down your seed in the event any device breaks.

  • @lile5341

    @lile5341

    4 жыл бұрын

    After you save and written down the seed words, your cryto accounts can be recovered with any other hardware wallet from any manufacturer as long as it support BIP39 (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 39)

  • @boyacaxa

    @boyacaxa

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@jllarivee60 thanks

  • @boyacaxa

    @boyacaxa

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@lile5341 thanks

  • @leemisciali6020
    @leemisciali6020 Жыл бұрын

    Hello. I need some help please. I have some funds which is aparently stuck in the blockchain which came from my Binance page due to minor fees being too low and can’t pay more. Aparently if I add the exact same amount on to my Binance this will release the funds that’s stuck. Is this correct. Also can a third party access my Binance page even when it’s my email/password and passcode

  • @YouuRayy
    @YouuRayy4 жыл бұрын

    what about Mycelium?

  • @firstlast3507

    @firstlast3507

    4 жыл бұрын

    No.

  • @DanHaiduc

    @DanHaiduc

    3 жыл бұрын

    What about it?

  • @friedrichhayek3683
    @friedrichhayek36834 жыл бұрын

    making your own seedphrase!? We humans CANT create satisfying amounts of entropy

  • @MitchellCallahan

    @MitchellCallahan

    3 жыл бұрын

    Dice.

  • @yawzerdoink-a-sore-as8159
    @yawzerdoink-a-sore-as81598 ай бұрын

    Hello from 2023, Ledger is not trusted anymore, go fig!

  • @stevolanddownunder3549

    @stevolanddownunder3549

    10 күн бұрын

    Still the best.

  • @deminthaashubodha9387
    @deminthaashubodha93874 жыл бұрын

    My advice, don't keep all eggs in one basket.

  • @majmunbezgaca5220

    @majmunbezgaca5220

    3 жыл бұрын

    why ? isnt ledger nano best possible way to store coins? :P what can go wrong?

  • @tikklemeemo1979

    @tikklemeemo1979

    3 жыл бұрын

    Still losing 1 basket would be enough to piss me off

  • @connylaurine745
    @connylaurine7454 жыл бұрын

    I just lost all trust in my Ledger Nano S.

  • @nofood1

    @nofood1

    4 жыл бұрын

    just a little I agree, but still got 90% of it in my Ledger.

  • @friedrichhayek3683
    @friedrichhayek36834 жыл бұрын

    But I don't need trust with my ledger nano s, it comes sealed and you connect it to a power source and generate your seed offline. Ledger is unsatisfying but trezor is cancer

  • @firstlast3507
    @firstlast35074 жыл бұрын

    Sell into this pump.

  • @marvelattar7798
    @marvelattar77984 ай бұрын

    I have recently got into Bitcoin. I was led through the process and got my Bitcoin up to $49,999. The problem is I have maintenance fees of $4100. I have been told that I have to pay the $4100, before I can get the Bitcoin. I live on a fixed income and have not been able to pay the maintenance fee of $4100. What can I do to retrieve my Bitcoin?

  • @kokonato8646
    @kokonato86464 жыл бұрын

    'Cure worse than disease' lol I love your political joke.

  • @KryptosChain

    @KryptosChain

    4 жыл бұрын

    Me too

  • @missionpupa

    @missionpupa

    4 жыл бұрын

    Kokonato he just said no pun intended and yet you still took it as

  • @friedrichhayek3683
    @friedrichhayek36834 жыл бұрын

    Trezor is a nightmare, I don't have a pc but you need one for updating it's firmware

  • @RandyDupree

    @RandyDupree

    4 жыл бұрын

    I have both Trezor and Ledger and Own a 2015 PC.. Trezor is my choice

  • @nimohobbs9827

    @nimohobbs9827

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@RandyDupree I do prefer my Trezor over Ledger also..

  • @nauxsi

    @nauxsi

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@nimohobbs9827 is that version 1 or the new one?

  • @securemaple
    @securemaple4 жыл бұрын

    Crypto was hyped up and touted as cure many problems but we have seen crazy financial situation, printing tons of money etc but the use cases of crypto seem to have not taken any advantage of it. It's still fringe market with manipulation and fluctuations for no reason or logic. If this will ever be mainstream, who knows?? It seems to be turning bit pointless thing.. Anyone agrees? For or against welcome

  • @jamesm2881

    @jamesm2881

    4 жыл бұрын

    If you do research of what is being developed behind the scenes you would think different. Follow the money .. visa is even getting in on the bitcoin game now

  • @nauxsi

    @nauxsi

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@martinlutherkingjr.5582 I'd agree. I would go as far as to say no one(new to the space) should be buying bitcoin between now and halvening event. Just turn off all the videos from day traders, let it drop, check back and in August buy a very small quantity if still intending to.

  • @hyperskivo8426
    @hyperskivo84264 жыл бұрын

    Just create a paper wallet on an air gapped computer and burn the computer afterwards.

  • @yaBoyDreamer
    @yaBoyDreamer4 жыл бұрын

    That hater needs some Jesus

  • @danielb8295
    @danielb82954 жыл бұрын

    shave your head, make sport, eat healthy. greetings

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