Poor women. And Rosemary reminds me of my husband's great aunt. She was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and only about 18 hours before her lobotomy she was saved from it by having won the Hubert Church prize for fiction. She went on to become a world renown author, nominated for the Nobel Prize. I just wonder what could have been for Rosemary.

@sjames9036

3 ай бұрын

Immediately I thought of Janet Frame. Very famous in New Zealand. We studied her short stories in high school.

@tchrisou812

3 ай бұрын

@bunnymad5049 What was her name?

@bunnymad5049

3 ай бұрын

@@tchrisou812 Janet Frame.

@bunnymad5049

3 ай бұрын

@@sjames9036 Yes. xxx In one sense it's a shame she didn't remain teaching. She was magic with children.

@tchrisou812

3 ай бұрын

@@bunnymad5049 Oh wow from NZ? I read one of her books years ago called (I think) "Owls Do Cry" if memory serves the main character does undergo a lobotomy. Am I even close? Forgive me if it's the wrong person.

Being Irish myself, I find it fascinating that Ireland and individuals of Irish descent are quite prevalent in this episode. As Oscar Wilde said; We Irish are too poetical to be poets; we are a nation of brilliant failures, but we are the greatest talkers since the Greeks.

@MFLimited

5 ай бұрын

The Irish definitely do hold their own intellects in pretty high regard. Nobody else is sure why.

@MFLimited

5 ай бұрын

The Irish definitely hold their own intellects in high regard. Nobody else knows why.

@kennethnorton8277

5 ай бұрын

@@MFLimited Sure, just ask the residents of the 2nd richest country in the world.

@daniellong8674

5 ай бұрын

Irish also here .. ur words are very true 👍

@daniellong8674

5 ай бұрын

​@MFLimited unless u are irish u wouldn't understand why

Rosemary's lobotomy is most tragic.

@shadrach6299

5 ай бұрын

That was a popular procedure at the time

@loum73

5 ай бұрын

@@shadrach6299 Thank you. I'm aware.

@JHjh88

5 ай бұрын

​@@loum73It was absolutely appalling. Her father was always known as a disgusting man. Popular at the time or not🙄, this was an extremely wealthy family who had access to way better care & options than this! Your comment is excellent ❤ from Australia 🦘

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

@@JHjh88 Lobotomies were horrible but they were also cutting edge (so to speak) medicine at the time. The guy who invented them won a Nobel Prize for his creation. You have to remember that there was NO medicine back then to control violent behavior brought on by mental illness. Kennedy was not a nice men but most extremely wealth men are not.

@laurapayne8177

5 ай бұрын

​@@shadrach6299just like transgender surgeries are popular today

Poor Rosemary 😔 she probably was just an outspoken rebellious teenager and then wanted her to be quiet and "well behaved" all the time. It's sounds like she was acting out against the tight boundaries set for her. If only they had just got her a therapist to talk to, one who would understand her or even though it still wouldnt be right they could have sent her away to live separately from them if they were so embarrassed by her personality. It's truly shocking. Her father's treatment choice for her is MORE shameful and horrendous than the embarrassment he thought she would bring upon the family. He is the embarrassment.

@Thundralight

5 ай бұрын

She may have had something along the lines of Asperger syndrome or Bipolar disorder. You also have to consider the times. At that time mental illness was not discussed and was hidden and considered an embarrassment to families. There were no medications at that time for mental disorders. He was probably misadvised by that so-called neurosurgeon. Ted Kennedy said he feared the old man as he could just make you disappear, as he did with poor Rosemary. He was more concerned about his sons political career than her well being.

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

There's an excellent book on Rosemary's life that really goes into details with documented sources about what happened to her. It's unfortunate the channel speculates about her birth issues leading to the lobotomy. When Rose Kennedy went into labor with Rosemary, Rose was told to cross her legs to prevent the baby from coming before the doctor got there. This cut off oxygen supply for quite a while -- I think like 20 minutes? -- but Rosemary very likely had brain damage. She had a hard time learning -- although she could write letters -- but she was clumsy and it was hard for her to see her brothers and sisters do things she couldn't, like play tennis. They weren't ashamed of her, they loved her, they made sure she was presented to the queen. She started becoming very aggressive -- like physically agressive to others -- which is one of the reasons she was sent to a school. And she went to a lot of schools not just the two mentioned here. The convent school had one sister who was assigned to Rosemary full time to keep her from running away or getting lost. Eventually, they told Joe Kennedy they couldn't keep her safe and released her. -- Very disappointing how this was presented by the channel. It feeds into the idea that the Kennedy's were ruthlessly political enough to sacrifice their daughter and they were not. Joe Kennedy -- and it was Joe Kennedy alone -- made the decision about the lobotomy because he had tried every other option.-- PS I love this channel and I've been a subscriber for a while.

@CaraBay-do6ru

5 ай бұрын

@cocoaddams4502 thank you so much for the extra information I will look into getting that book. She is an example of the many poor children who had conditions very much misunderstood. It's just the thoughts that any "doctor" could think the solution was to drill into someone's brain! To keep removing tissue until the person could no longer answer a question and think 'there! problem solved' so very chilling

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

@@CaraBay-do6ru You're welcome and thank you for replying. The story in the book about her lobotomy is terribly sad. She was awake -- as the patients usually were -- because the doctors wanted the patient to talk so they could guess how the patient was responding. At one point, Rosemary was relaxed and smiling and talking and then in a moment she wasn't. Something vital was cut in an instant and that was it. None of the kids knew what was going to happen to her. I mean, the guy who invented lobotomies won a Nobel Prize for his work. It was later rescinded but the work wasn't considered slapdash.

@KraftyKreator

5 ай бұрын

@@CaraBay-do6ruYeah, thank goodness for drugs who help people with mental illnesses. Before, they didn’t have much of anything hence why some resorted to lobotomies, tragically.

Thanks for sharing these tragic stories! It shows that fame and fortune cannot buy happiness. True happiness comes from within you and no amount of money can buy that.

I love these stories! While money can buy comfort, it can't buy happiness. Well done ❤

@KaseyBatesYoyo

4 ай бұрын

It’ll buy me happiness

@susanschnur155

4 ай бұрын

More than anything, money buys leisure time. Think of the free time we'd all have if we employed others to clean our homes, launder our clothes, raise our children, plan, shop for, and cook our meals. They'd also maintain our houses, wardrobes, cars, landscaping, and social calendars. Imagine having back all that time to improve yourself by learning languages, studying, traveling, mastering skills and crafts you've always wanted to.

@lauracook8203

3 ай бұрын

Well, like my Mom says- money may not buy happiness but I'd rather cry into a silk pillow than a burlap sack.

@Starae336

24 күн бұрын

Yes it can! Happiness is a fleeting feeling not a constant state of being. Plenty of times money has bought me happiness!!!!

@Starae336

24 күн бұрын

@@susanschnur155money buys EVERYTHING!!!!

thank you for adding details behind the Kennedy family as I had only a thumb nail knowledge. Please continue with your work

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thank you, I will

@judielise

4 ай бұрын

😅😅ppp😅

These stories are interesting about people we don't always know about. No amount of money can bring happiness. Really sad and tragic. Beautifully and empathetically delivered

Rosemary didn’t go insane, she was lobotomised. She was a lot more active and mentally alert before the lobotomy, so perhaps she doesn’t belong in this group of women.

I am glad to have finally found a very interesting chanell of history that includes all the features of a good book. I love to read, yet I also enjoy a very well told story with interesting visuals as well. Thank you so much for creating this extraordinary channel. I hope to see more of this content! Carry on!😊

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoy it!

Joe Kennedy had a lot to answer for. His blind ambition for his sons destroyed a life. At leDt the family tried to do what they could after Joe died.

@readg4fun

5 ай бұрын

I believe he destroyed all of his family in ways we don’t know.

Those Kennedy smiles could have made them a fortune selling toothpaste 😅😅

Kennedy story has always sickened me...thank you for the video

Thanks for your hard work. ❤

The video was fascinating, though I hate to use that word to describe what was done to Rosemary Kennedy. You do a great job of writing and narrating and I'm always happy to see a notification from this channel. Thanks very much, as always!! Ciao! 🙂

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the support 😊

@user-bn7bk5mw4s

5 ай бұрын

Rosemary Kennedy had brain damage due to events at her birth. ..read Kate Larsens biography of her. .but her father was ashamed of her and didn't want her in the way of ambition for his son's political careers

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

@@user-bn7bk5mw4s I read the same book. The end result was tragic but the family did everything possible over decades to try to solve the issues of her aggressiveness and running away, etc. Rosemary received the same share of Kennedy's wealth as her siblings. Kennedy was one of the wealthiest men in the country at that point. All that -- probably millions of dollars -- was spent trying to find a way to help her.

So sad how these women's families treated them. I'm glad their stories weren't erased. These women deserve that much

Thank you another one of your wonderful broadcasts. Bravo to your KZread channels, for they are entertaining, and enlightening and very well done! 🎉❤🎉

Hello Forgotten Lives, thank you for one of your fascinating videos about people from the past. Sometimes hundreds of years ago, others not-so-distant. With the content of their lives most of the time being tragic. Always a good listen, and a glimpse into some interesting peoples' lives.

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment ans for watching as always!

@ChildfreeMatto

5 ай бұрын

@@ForgottenLives You're welcome. It's always a pleasure coming around and seeing what you have for everyone to enjoy.

Thank you! Your videos and narration are so beautifully done. You really immerse us in the lives of others and their era. Everything is so wonderfully illustrated.

Another fantastic program! Thanks for sharing the fruit of all your hard work!

This was fascinating and I throughly enjoyed it . I find your voice to be quite pleasant to listen to . Thank you

@ForgottenLives

4 ай бұрын

Thanks very much 😀

If not for alcohol We Irish should have conquered the world..an irish friend told me that

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

Alcohol and the shame inflicted by the Catholic Church.

@argusfleibeit1165

5 ай бұрын

The alcohol is just to deal with all the turmoil in our heads. It's a sad combination of brilliance and energy, and the lack of a steady nervous system to carry it forward. My extended family is full of us.

@spinrash6000

5 ай бұрын

Why do you want to conquer the world? It’s insulting to think Irish people is all about alcohol.

Wasn’t Princess Diana a Spencer?

@jujumulligan43

5 ай бұрын

Yes

@user-bn7bk5mw4s

5 ай бұрын

Yes and look what the damn royals did to her

@Ruth78620

4 ай бұрын

Yes

@Valentina-Steinway

3 ай бұрын

@@user-bn7bk5mw4s- she had a rough childhoood. And never got counseling. She had many, many issues….

Love your channel!❤

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!!

I had neighbors at my former apartment who lived liked hermits. In fact it was a mom and two daughters. They left their apartment buildings. Very sad.

@DorothySbornak

3 ай бұрын

Do you know whatever happened to them? I know of two brothers that live alone. One of them I've not seen in years.

Very well researched. Keep up the good work. All the best from Tasmania.

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much 🙂

So glad I found your channel. This was very good!

Pls do a video on famous European royal families whom had individuals whom suffered from mental illness because of incest issues

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

I'll look into it!

@tennis5177

4 ай бұрын

The Habsburgs

@kareharpies

3 ай бұрын

All of them

In all the pictures of Rosemary b4 the lobotomy she looks so happy

Good job. Awesome deep dive into history I didn’t know I wanted to know🎉

Thank you so much, very interesting stories 😊

Was a very interesting and sad stories in this one. Thank you for all the great work you do this history is fascinating.

Very good! I loved it. You tell great stories. Thanks!

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Your videos are so informative, and pair so well with your lovely voice

I just discovered your channel. Gotta tell ya .I'm really enjoying it.and will continue to follow you

This was great! Thanks.

Amazing!!! Thank you for sharing ❤

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

This is amazing! I was just thinking what time i would get your notification. Thank you for sharing incredible History! Edit: Loved this compilation, especially listening about Kennedy's family again. Great video FLives! Thanks

@ELKE-

5 ай бұрын

I will put it on the tv screen, so that you get more ads. Thanks FLives. Wish good night

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Hope you enjoyed it! Thanks:)

@ELKE-

5 ай бұрын

@@ForgottenLives Thank you! I enjoyed it twice! :)

As a person living on the spectrum, I see young Rosemary looking out at the world through those early photos in the same way I do. I wasn’t there so maybe it’s not fair of me to voice this opinion but a picture tells a thousand words is what they say. So sad for Rosemary.

Forgotten Lives always has great content I enjoy watching his cases

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks :)

Amazing channel and another great story

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for listening

Excellently presented. Well done.

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Such a fascinating video ❤

This was very interesting. However, I do think it's important to remember that Kennedy Sr. was 'recalled' to the US due to his pro German stance. They didnt just returned on completion of an overseas mission.

if you could put time stamps for each story when making compilations i would love you forever lol

Love your channel 😊

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

Finally, thank you 😊 🙏

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

You're welcome 😊

Thank you, FL.

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Any time!

The Kennedy family, if not already rich, could have made a fortune advertising toothpaste, those teeth 😅😅

Rosemary wasn't lobotomised because of a mental illness... it was because she had a voice, a mind of her own, and wasn't afraid to be herself. She was a strong, independent woman who was sexually active, and her father was horrified at that and decided to lobotomise her as a way to "tame" and "control" her. It was absolutely disgusting and disgraceful, and Rosemary never deserved that kind of treatment.

@KraftyKreator

5 ай бұрын

She was considered rain damaged, like the narrator mentions. But yes, the father was embarrassed by his daughter who was perhaps mentally deficient and not one of the brilliant, intelligent children he wanted to be known for, so he insisted on the lobotomy which damaged her brain even more, sadly. But it did achieve what he wanted, prevented her from acting sexually with boys and embarrassing him, I suppose. The siblings didn’t even know what had become of her for a long time apparently. Very sad, especially as regardless she seems much more mentally healthy before the lobotomy.

@aliceputt3133

5 ай бұрын

Her Father was promiscuous with numerous affairs. She probably was going to speak out about things he wanted to keep quiet.

@JennerallyAnxious

4 ай бұрын

Not sure where you heard all that?

@KantoCafe715

4 ай бұрын

It’s really obvious, but it’s good to have someone spell it out, for the imbeciles

@amberpritchard5490

3 ай бұрын

From numerous different documentaries 😉

Such a sad tale of Lucia - imagine everything related to you being destroyed as if you never existed.

Thank-you very much ❤❤❤

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

You're welcome 😊

I love these videos.

IMO, many of the Kennedy's untimely deaths stemed from lack of caution and common sense, For example: playing football on skis, flying a plane without a co pilot and having a broken leg in murky weather, plus retrieving a toy ball in a boat when the water is choppy.

@24get24give

5 ай бұрын

doesn't make them less tragic or sad though, does it?

@amber2583

5 ай бұрын

Don't forget, going against the deep state and the US intelligence agencies. That has proven to be dangerous behavior.

@margaretr5701

5 ай бұрын

Impulsivity.

@dalailalai6335

3 ай бұрын

Rich people often die doing rich people things.

24:53 So odd how eerily similar Gladys’s profile was to Princess Diana.. even though not blood related.

Very interesting, thank you

Thanks!

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind donation!! 😊😊

Also, Hartington, was the heir to one of the wealthiest and most politically influential families of England through the efforts of his Mother. This wS highly unusual at the tome. His mother was the famous Georgiana Spencerthe great greT grandmother of Diana Spencer, who would marry Prince, now King Charles., and produce 2 sons William, the heir apparant, and Harry, who has retreated from public life. So Kathleen could have been as influential to Britain's history as her brothers were to American history

Love it

I love your channel.an I love your voice.splended.

@ForgottenLives

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

I miss the horrific case of Blanche Monnier.

I'm way too empathetic for this type of heartbreak today 😘😘😘 Much love to these ladies.

I highly recommend blue:season by Chris Lombardi, a historical fiction novel about a modern academic studying and becoming haunted by the story of Lucia Joyce. There are some interesting details about the Joyce's, father and daughter, relationship and her dancing and artistic career. Lucia Joyce and Rosemary Kennedy's stories have always fascinated and frightened me. I have Depression, Anxiety, and Dementophobia (fear of insanity), so these kind of stories always troubled me because I identify with them so much.

I've heard about Ida before but I still can't imagine why she lived in a pigsty... She could have just allow the made in once a month. That would have been efficient

@margaretr5701

5 ай бұрын

Probably a hoarding situation, often associated with mental health problems.

What truths did Lucia tell in her writings that the Joyce's wanted them hidden? Sad.

That opperation should never ever have been legal especially in the US.

@cocoaddams4502

4 ай бұрын

The guy who invented it won a Nobel Prize for it. That was later rescinded. Hindsight is 20-20.

The father was the only one from the family(Kennedys) to attend his daughters funeral!?? A SHAME!

Rosemary Kennedy had 2 older brothers. Several of my catholic girl friends said they had to put locks on their door to keep brother out. Sexual abuse is damaging to the victim, makes em angry.. She got attention from lots of brothers friends..

Sometimes when a person is wealthy they can afford things they shouldn't have. I knew a boy when I was younger that had a lot of medical procedures he felt he didn't need because of great insurance and resources.

The American author Flannery O'Connor was diagnosed properly and so well at least she wasn't being called dangerous and mentally ill instead while being an artist was being at the lowest rank among all those from the working class unless enough rich people took a liking to them.

What’s saddest of all is one will never know if some of these women did or didn’t suffer from mental illness as bad as was stated. Many women were placed in asylum s for being outspoken, or different or because the husband just didn’t like her, or their family didn’t like who she was associating with.

@cocoaddams4502

5 ай бұрын

And once the wife was in an asylum, even if she came back home, everybody would expect her to be "crazy" so if she replied the wrong way, she could end up back in the asylum.

@KantoCafe715

4 ай бұрын

It’s sheer oppression.

The ads are out of control. A 7.5 minute ad closely followed by yet another ad.

The Kennedys, especially Joe, were/are some of the most disingenuous politicians ever foisted on America. The population was completely fooled by the money, glitz and glamour that overlaid the abject immorality and corruption of the family. God was watching all of it, and I think that the “Kennedy curse” is/was His judgment on Joe and the clan. Cheating on wives was routine, alcoholism is/was rampant, Joe is known to have been a corrupt businessman, including having dealings with the mob, Teddy actually left a girl to drown…absolute trash. Rich trash, but trash nonetheless. 👎🏻

@user-kc8pe5gx9h

4 ай бұрын

This! If this had happened to a poor man, all of his deeds would have been laid out to everyone. When a rich man does something we all know what he has done but the police turn a blind eye. Unfortunately for them due to the age of technology, their secrets are coming to the light. Rich men are 100 times worse then poor men. They think the rules don't apply to them because they have money.

St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, celebrates Irish Americans. I never even knew that anti-Irish sentiments existed until I was in my thirties. My Great-Grandmother actually lied about having British ancestry to fit in with her Irish neighbors. I only learned this a few years ago. So, I grew up being happily Irish only to learn of the horrible way my ancestors were treated upon their immigration. Then, I learned that particular hardship did not apply to my personal history. My ancestors were aristocrats, left England to become poor American farmers 😮.

Teddy looked like his father

Wow threatening to shoot an innocent kid over an apple, very sad.

Allegedly, it's on film, but Burnett won't release he. So I'm thinking Burnett has blood on his hands from America's death.

Lead the life, there will be consequences to pay. That is why you should make the right choices at the start! High society has its' peccadillos just as does lower society. Lust leads to trouble and death and drama! Thus, make the right choices at the start!!!

@joedirt3449

5 ай бұрын

Lust comes in many forms my friend

@janaleland9038

5 ай бұрын

Patricia--Many of us never had a good foundation, because our parents had a bad foundation. So, if you never were given an insight into better-other choices, how would you have rearranged priorities? From your Comment, I find you lacking in empathy and compassion. I have made bad choices in my past, but I came out of it all with empathy and compassion for others. You obviously didn't. How sad. Shalom and GOD Bless you. --j, sun antonio, tejas.

Yes not having money can buy a whole lotta misery though!!! 😅

❤

Rosemary knew too much that’s why all that happened to her. Sad

I work for St Coletta…

All of these stories are sad. They all had a lot of money though! The Irish went through that potato famine also many Irish had to go through White Slavery. Irish deal with a lot of depression. Back in those days called Melancholy. That Jack Kennedy wasn't very nice to his daughters. Well, shows money prestige and power was more important.

It’s hard not to believe that the Kennedy family was not cursed 😢

Yes she was

Love how you highlight how much life was gross for women in history. Please also share more non European/ American stories!

Did I miss the point of time when money and power didn’t get you out of legal trouble? 😅 what do you mean, “when”?

Reprehensible what they did to Rosemary.

Hmmm....Anna Sorokin.

Does anyone who this person is or what his’ name 😭 30:58

Crazy 🤪 Traditional design

Or their rotten families or husbands said they were

But yet the Night Doctors considered us all the exact same. Hyocratic Oath lol. Hypocrites Creed. Evolution. Samo samsam 24

They knew exactly what they were doing when it camevto lobotomies

I'm already a filthy recluse...

In America and England, there were signs on doors, NINA, no Irish need apply. For Italians it was WOPS-without papers need not apply. Being both Irish and Italian, with no politics in place or welfare system etc to assist available, my ancestors managed to rise above, by plain hard work. So my politics tend to not coddle immigrants. Because they are all EQUAL-to the task!😊 Ps. Joe Kennedy was a devil or close to one

it's "took a turn for the worse: :)

OMG....Those lips!

9:39

Could we have more commercials every 2 minutes jeez