Nice lecture. Day one in my class, my students had to explain the Buddha quote, " believe nothing, no matter where you've read it, no matter who has said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense." It was all over my room with the word THINK above it. I challenged my students on day one to question anything said in the room, whether it was me saying it or a classmate. What's interesting with The Cave, is that there really isn't just one Power group in our lives. At the beginning there is, our parents, but as we age, we have teachers, then media, and gov etc all casting their own shadows and that is where the discomfort begins. Where we have the thoughts like: "but I thought" or "wow, I never knew." Another quote I would introduce my students to is, "where you stand depends on where you sit". To let them know that our experiences shape our views and conversations can get uncomfortable because you have two people who sat, basically, in two different caves. When two different cave dwellers meet.... oh, boy, that can get tough. Lol. The one who is able to not get so emotional during the meeting is the one who can take the time to understand why the person thinks the way they do. That doesn't mean you must agree with or believe what they are telling you, but you can see where their views are coming from. I think those who can best understand that they have been chained up in many caves, has the best chance to not let a new light disturb them.

@chrishill1249

8 күн бұрын

I'm stealing this.

This is one of the most excellent lecture I have ever heard on Plato's Cave, the Dr. Kleiner has not only summed up an allegory, but a physical and mental procedure that we all practice in life, several times.

" nobody can be led where they don't want to go" ... I hollered, that was so good.

@dconfused9919

3 жыл бұрын

You're being led right now. It's easier to fool you than convince you you've been fooled. No human knows anything until it was shown to them. You don't know what dress you want to buy until you see it at the store. Then you must consider do ya have enough money? And enough left over to pay rent and bills? Just because you can read and write doesn't mean you're smart. You did what they trained. But here's the thing. You have the power to train program yourself. Takes effort.

@nilacurry4230

3 жыл бұрын

D Confused I didn’t ask for your thoughts but I do think you should heed your own words. Sidenotes: I don’t wear dresses and my bills/savings are always paid before I go shopping.

@krell2130

2 жыл бұрын

@@nilacurry4230 Having read the comment from the program, what thoughts have you given the basic premise it exposed?

I love this work by Plato. The irony...those held prisoner aren't aware of the chains that bind them. You can imagine when one is "dragged" out for a proper education, those left behind would come up with a narrative that the individual is being punished for something they must have done! Then you can imagine a whole scenario of new rules for behavior in the "cave" to prevent anyone else from being taken away for punishment. It's fascinating and very relevant for the way we live a life in this existence.

@shaunkerr8721

Ай бұрын

The most ironic thing to me was that Socrates/Plato were so against the arts and so for rational thinking and yet the majority of their collective work that is known and remembered by most is their artistic and allegorical work which is itself not rational. This is not to say it is not rational in a kind with say Descartes but to say that it is not logical, falsifiable, or empirical. For all of their demand to move from a passions and emotions and feelings based standard for ethics, etc. they failed to do this and could only put forth the Realm of the Forms, the Cave, the Divided Line, the Gold, Silver, Bronze caste system, etc. all of which are not rational, not logical, not scientific, not empirical, not anything except, well poetic, artistic, perspective based, emotional, passionate, HUMAN! How ironic...

Wish I’d had more teachers like Dr. Kleiner. Thank you, Doctor

This professor is so eloquent wow. Amazing lecture. Lucky students :)

@LUCKY2BSEXIRE

5 жыл бұрын

Moonlit Imagination agreed! I would definitely take a class with him!!

@pinklady7184

4 жыл бұрын

A tweed jacket, a shirt and a bow. He looks very old-schooled.

@Veronica-uv5rq

4 жыл бұрын

Wow! I need him in my life!!!!!!!!!!

@HexOmega3113

3 жыл бұрын

I learned about this in my philosophy class. Thats where i met my wife and the mother of my son :)

@_theporkchopexpress

3 жыл бұрын

He is eloquent, but literally says ‘um’ 15 times in less than 3 minutes😂

So, you can't make me see but, at least, you can make me think! Thanks, Plato.

I was shown an animated movie in a speech class in college called "the cave". Was pretty amazed that after 2 years of prior college, included a sub in philosophy, I didn't see it before. One professor, long ago, pointed out how things from so long in the past, were still relevant then. One other note: the resistance that the people at the bottom of the cave had. It's one battle to find the truth, another to show others that what they see isn't the truth. Mark Twain said: it's easier to fool people than it is to convince people they've been fooled.

The Allegory of the Cave isn’t about “education“ as much as it is about awareness and knowledge and at a more developed point of discussion the awareness that current knowledge is little more than a different point of “conventional” thought and opinion on a spectrum leading to enlightenment and truth (the Professor at 15:41). The very moment The Allegory of the Cave is taught in a school it ceases to be that which Plato was referencing in the story. By their very nature, educational institutions inculcate, they don’t educate. In fact, the students in that classroom are having chains bound to them by their need to accept the Professor’s approved interpretation of the Allegory (e.g., “There will be a quiz.” @30:53. The quiz isn’t about what The Allegory of the Cave is about, it’s about what the Professor thinks The Allegory of the Cave is about notwithstanding his “by no means would I want to insist that the reading I’ve given it here is the only reading that could be given“ at 30:39. If that‘s the truth, Professor, don‘t give a quiz, or at least give everyone an “A” no matter what he or she answers). Along those lines, referencing Socrates’ method of teaching, the Banking Model of education and using Paulo Freire‘s name in a lecture that has negligible student participation - and when it does it’s Socratic only to the extent the students are allowed to finish the Professor’s thought - misses the point as well. Or at least that’s what some scraggly homeless guy told me one day at a bus stop when he noticed I was reading “The Republic.” Fortunately the cops came and arrested him for being disobedient to the system so I didn’t have to listen to any more of his bullshit that day.

@WavveBoi

4 жыл бұрын

I wish we were friends.

@zerakhu

4 жыл бұрын

Brilliant analysis, totally agree with you

@tedgrey

4 жыл бұрын

the allegory can absolutely be taught in an "institution". Socrates himself was a teacher, plato was his student. The man who leaves the cave goes back in to teach the "truth" to his compatriots. That he does so AND that he does it in the cave is important. The cave is the institution. Thee guy who has seen the light is a teacher. the wrong in the story is the lack of acceptance from the other people in the cave. they are not part of the institution (that would be the people casting the shadows) it is the people who refuse to accept the truth and NOT the institution. ...also, it is very easy to quiz someone on the discussion without forcing them to agree with the professor. I don't know what his quiz looks like or if he took the extra time to do so but I have had many great phil. teachers who gave quizes to determine if people were listening, with whom I vehemently disagreed and wrote that disagreement into the tests, who gave me A's for understanding the questions and coming to answers even when my conclusions were diametrically opposed to theirs. (most of whom loved me in class and were super supportive of me)

@gooneytran85

4 жыл бұрын

Book VII, The Republic, 514a: "'Next', I said, 'here's a situation which you can use as an analogy for the human condition- for our education or lack of it." Koklan & Thompson translated. Allan Bloom translated the passage in a similar way, but definitely used "education" in it. Plato meant the allegory to be about education (of the guardians in particular).

@bunnyjai3267

4 жыл бұрын

Dennis Halterman yea I feel like he’s teaching a high school course. If this is a college course....wow aren’t those students being misinformed. Who are his references? “You don’t really need to know...” is one of his quotes. How awful of a professor. I wouldn’t bother watching this garbage because he can’t teach.

i actually enjoyed this lecture. i just came from watching The Allegory of the Cave from Ted Ed, then came here for a deeper understand of the allegory. and i was not disappointed. it was so enlightening. am from the Philippines, and 59 years old, fyi. thanks a lot, Dr. Harrison Kleiner. Salamat po!

17:00 The Church Okay, where was this lecture when I needed it the most? What a lecture and interpretation. Thank You.

Great explanation, giving me a lot of input for my exam! Really inspiring! Thank you Dr. Kleiner

@bellafraser3137

3 жыл бұрын

lol same

@andrewacornwell8678

2 жыл бұрын

When raising or getting ready to walk somebody through the catechisms I always stop at a platform and discuss the allegory of the cave I'm in a prison my hands are Shackled the Shadows dancing on the wall people throw meet at me so I believe the either that light or the things they're throwing meet at me or my God they must be my creator wait a minute I'm all by myself nobody's here with me I have to get out of this hell I've created will how are they still feeding me things I can't see anything wait a minute I'm just going to stand up and walk to the window do I have a agoraphobia what about my people that are still in there I crawled to the edge of the cave I'm hungry there is no fire there are no Shadows there are no monsters the sun just Rose I'm going to tell everybody that I'm not. They'll never believe me and if they don't believe me that I'm not God they must be God maybe nobody's God but we know that there is a God I like to call God Jesus

An excellent lecture! Thank you.

Great lecture! Especially from 24:00 until the end it's a really valuable interpretation I wish my school / university had been more relentless about making EVERY student understand that learning is active (and about desire to understand) until EVERYONE actually gets this fundamental truth 100%. Using the cave allegory is the perfect vehicle to get this point across imo

Excellent presentation. Thank you for sharing!

One of the bests lectures that I've ever seen. My huge respects.

I love this presentation of the Allegory. I've borrowed heavily from it in my own teaching. Thanks Prof. Kleiner!

I wish i had professors like this.Thank you for the lesson.

Excellent. Should be mandatory viewing for more folks.

What an insightful talk for students. Thank you.

Thank you very much for the insightful interpretation and class..got me thinking a lot..thank you!

Thank you so much for such a powerful lecture, I found it really helpful.

such a great analysis.

More than happy to have a real time conversation that o think might be mutually beneficial! Really enjoyed your presentation

Thank you Doctor Kleiner I really appreciate your teaching Style

To me this is inspiring lecture and he critically analysed the Plato allegory of the cave.thanks

A very helpful lecture, thank you so much!

Thank you for this inspiring lecture! The best !!

Finally i could understand the Allegory of the cave, thank you Dr. Kleiner

Wonderful lecture Dr. Kleiner, thanks!

This lecture is of great importance... I learnt alot about the "Allegory of the cave". it is one of the best lectures i have listened to.

Great presentation of allegory of the cave. The deepest meaning of the cave is as an allegory of the affairs of the Soul. All parts and players of the story can be found within us. It describes the awakening of our awareness/consciousness to our Spirit nature, true 'education'

@theodorekyriakos9395

8 жыл бұрын

***** by opposite you mean the affairs of the State/Republic? It refers to both Republic & Soul.

@theodorekyriakos9395

8 жыл бұрын

***** the allegory refers to all 3 stages of Personality , Soul and Spirit as well as the Republic, but if one don't like the 'idea' of Soul, one can just use the word personality, or awareness, consciousness etc

@theodorekyriakos9395

8 жыл бұрын

***** You are welcome.

This made the allegory so clear for me thank you!

Amazing lecture what a gifted Professor !I just started studying Philosophy class in college and I am glad I came across this !

Thank you professor loved your lecture As a reentry student I was inspired

This was great and very helpful, thank you.

thank you so much I get advantage from your lecture

Thank you so much! it really helped

I had a philosophy professor just like this is in undergrad-bow tie and all :) Such an engaging course and one of my most memorable instructors.

A professionally competent instructor and teacher. Very refreshing when I see so much professional incompetence.

Wow! It was awesome. I really enjoyed the lecture. It was clear and concise

I needed this! Thanks for the enlightenment ✨❤️

Wow I really enjoyed this Lecture , Thank you my understanding and perspectives is filled .

amazing lecture, in my philo class were going over the cave and this helped me understand some aspects of the allegory I was unable to understand myself before we have inclass discussion later in the week.

Good explanation by Dr Harrison

Excellent!

Really enjoyed this

In school at the moment, this professor is awesome and makes me question why I’m paying …. He’s on point

This guy says "he escaped the cave"....he's missing the point that the prisoner doesn't want to leave ....he is dragged into daylight and then adjusts. That's why he some back so excited because the prisoner didn't want enlightenment either but now he has it and wants everyone to know what he knows.

@epistte

5 жыл бұрын

Knowledge/learning is scary to some people because they must accept that what we think that we know is not the truth.

@eateddie1995

3 жыл бұрын

He said he was compelled, meaning he had to be made to leave. And also at 11:13 he says he is dragged.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

one of many very error filled ellisions in this lecture

A good teacher holds the attention of the class by guiding them. A great teacher sits down 'n points to those that know better :-D X

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

please direct me toward somebody who understands this cave shit way better than this guy

THANK YOU! I finally understand!!!!!!!

Thank you.

Such a superb lecture by a shadowcaster. How many caves will we be lead into

Thanks a lot. Great presentation. Can i get more Lectures from Dr. Harrison Kleiner?

I really appreciate that li e about 'Don't be so quick to laugh at peoples confusion.' Perhaps our moments of confusion are precursers to important challenges to common beliefs which someone is beginning to disentangle themselves from. Perhaps someones confusion is valuable to us all. Or even better, someone might be trying to be polite by saying they are confused by an apparent lack of sense "to their limited perspective", or "in their opinion- and in truth they are on the verge of outrage.

@reveranttangent1771

4 жыл бұрын

Confusion is a blessing, it allows us to let go of false beliefs and move towards true ones. That being said, the blessing should not be abused by refusing to let go of it.

Excellent lecture

that was pretty much helpful .thnx

Great class. I am a graduate student and this helped me clarify a lot of the questions i had (and still do) about this dialogue.

I needed that

For all of those CNN, CBS, NBC, KZread and Facebook audiences. And for those who blindly follow government leaders.

A book I recently read lead me to this subject. I am happy that this was the version of the allegory I chose to learn from. The author, Jeremy Griffith, uses this allegory (and many others) as evidence for his understanding of the human condition. I might add, that the writings of Jeremy Griffith are well worth your time to read.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

wow, how surprising, a discourse by an author that argues you should buy his book, how selfish, how capitalist, how so unaware of the critique of the self, himself, yourself, etc.

@loge10

5 ай бұрын

​@@wfepriceWhile I understand the spirit from which you are coming, I don't see anywhere in the comment where Jeremy Griffith is himself plugging for his book. Pamela seems to just be plugging for validation of her own positive experience with this author.

Very informative. Thank you so much professor.

"Those that say don't know, those that know won't say."

@ionionascu6716

2 жыл бұрын

Not anymore

I’m lucky to have seen this

very relevant lecture. I now see The Allegory of the Cave differently

Thanks for minute 20 > 21. that really deepened my understanding of the world of forms.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

1st time ive heard the word forms yet in the lecture or comments. is forms another fancy way to say ideas? if so then what is russian formalism, who is vladimir propp and do those two have anything to do with this "forms" you speak of?

@scottdpatterson

2 жыл бұрын

@@wfeprice legacy for me from initial study of Plato was that he saw the shadows as a representation of more perfect forms.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

​@@scottdpatterson, so you have a real object, shine a light on it and create a shadow, and that shadow then becomes a more perfect form of the object itself? that makes no sense to me whatsoever. I suspect that what's really going on is that Plato and all idealists (universalists) believe that there is somewhere 1 perfect form of a table and every table made is man's attempt to come closer to that perfection. But reverse this and you have something universal in tables that they are all versions of the perfect form. We could apply this concept of forms = ultimate truth with history as an example. Every history is one person's or a collective's version of history because have to choose what to leave out and leave in which will be determined by their ideological position. An absolutely true history would be the perfect form of history leaving out and in the perfect things, a history to which all other historys' aspire to be. This true/form history could only be written by God or higher consciousness.

This is actually my first video about philosophy and i love it! Thank you Dr. Kleiner for your interesting lecture, it's very informative and insightful.

Dr.Kleiner is an excellent professor. His analysis is very well put. If everyone sawed this video and the world would be a better place.

The professor reminds me of Sir John Keating. Pure wisdom.

excellent class

Zach Galifinakis

@ryanrobitaille8720

8 жыл бұрын

+reda majidi Was just about to leave a comment like, "you can't fool me Professor Zach Galifinakis!" but figured someone else had to have seen the similarity. Haha.

This amusing animated interpretation of Plato's 'Republic' is one of countless interpretations. I like to think that Plato, and others of his ilk, had a sense of humour !

........ I'm stunned.... I I've been arguing lately. That the reason Plato is so important is that because he's tripartite. Not monoist or dualists. But his model for reality is divided into physical mental and the abstract. While I had a general idea about what Plato says about the physical and abstract. I really couldn't express what I meant about mental. Until now when the teacher got me back on track about what Plato says about education! That's amazing! Halfway through the lecture I was losing hope that my model of Plato's thought was wrong. Because I've probably seen and read presentations of the Allegory of the cave a million times. But I always felt something was missing. Then in the next half of the lecture... Where the teacher after having discussed the basics of Plato's view on the physical and abstract. Gets serious and starts discussing the implications of what Allegory means for education and mental aspect of learning. Boom! I'm impressed! Going to definitely save this video and revisit it in the near future!

Absolutely fantastic lecture. Enjoyed this very much! Thanks for sharing!

Plato's cave = The Matrix, aka Neo is the person in the cave.

@hamamjij

7 жыл бұрын

...And the rest are all those watching the news, talk shows and shopping malls...!!! :)

@arete7884

7 жыл бұрын

The funny thing is once you get out of that cave u are in another cave.

@recognizereal8938

6 жыл бұрын

Took the red pill

@kayadjei2043

5 жыл бұрын

@@arete7884 I call it matrix within a matrix. The exit sign on one cave is the entry sign of another. I believe theres an amount of truth to to be learnt from each cave we escape.

@dr.inkwell1070

2 жыл бұрын

@@kayadjei2043 Infinite Concentric Hollow Earths...

My mam told me this story when I was around 6. I understood the meaning strate away, but didn't realize it was university philosophy !!! It's the media in the middle & the elite on the top, us on the bottom !!!

The "most complete" lecture for Plato's cave I've ever seen.

Great presentation! Very informative and helped me with ideas for my paper. Much more interesting than the way my professor explained it lol

Excellent

Brilliant exchange, brilliant professor

This is interesting 💕❤️

The flickering shadows are a flat-screen TV.

It is perfect. Thanks

Mental reality is more real than physical That hit home

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

me, i'd prefer to get a bad idea than run over by a bus. do you still like your post?

@hexicantony8901

2 жыл бұрын

@@wfeprice i still stand by my (apparent) stoned thought lol 😆

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

@@hexicantony8901 hahahahaha

AMAZING!

This professor gives an excellent impression of Utah State University.

about to start college? wow this is a great high school lecture

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

i think the simplification, reduction, and ellision is doing more harm than good here.

mind and desire

Naming base on other understandings

Excellent. Thank you

Another more powerful way to look at this story is the spiritual view, Souls, beings, trapped in human form, with tempory amnesia. Looking at reality through the eyes of a meat body, limited to thoughts of the mind that is fed only by images of the physical world....fed and created by the previous ideas of likewise trapped souls/ minds.

@nanaresh1007

4 жыл бұрын

very true, i wonder why most leave out spiritual and the limitation of physical too. is it because it forces us to leave a comfortable cave with known boundaries for a world of wild possibilities and infinte unknowns?

@urbansetter1

3 жыл бұрын

That's what I got out of it

@urbansetter1

3 жыл бұрын

Its representing the unconcious and the concious to me.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

when you look at some thing in the world is that an image of the physical world? i dont think so, a painting of the physical world surely is a re-presentation of the physical world. who exactly stood between shakespeare and the natural world that makes his poetry regurgitated garbage? he held a mirror up to nature (as in trees plants, etc.) but also re-presented a lot of ideas about our minds, how they work, what has been thought before, etc. your post makes me think we should ignore people like shakespeare and just take our minds and bodies directly into nature but even then you tell us the only thing that will come from it will be polluted by what has gone before. if you had wrote your post in 500 BC as philosophy and the world bought into it hook line and sinker, think through all this stuff (images, music, ideas, etc.) that wouldn't be here. when i read posts like yours i think of it as misinformation, the aim of which is to get the rest of us to stop creating while you go on creating behind our backs, i e. that your discourse was not honest philosophy or ideas but was to eliminate competition for yourself in the world of creativity. this is a weighty accusation i am making towards you and many others. i hope you will take the time to respond and put me in my place, convince me that i'm crazy to say this, i am very open minded and will seriously consider your response.

@OceanTopInc

2 жыл бұрын

@@wfeprice Thank you for you response. Please note that you have projected so much meaning upon, and then argued against points of your own creation. I was pointing to the fact that most "people" are in utter amnesia, they are in fact immortal souls... we all are, and yet without real knowledge of what that means they instead view life only via the 5 senses and the mind. Many are so lost in the hypnotic state of the senses that their emotions and mind stories (the constant chatter in the mind, the self narrative of what is happening second by second) are what they refer to as "me". I did not bring up Shakespeare, and therefore could not have suggested we should ignore him. My intention was nothing to do with beings in competition, and certainly I do not wish anyone to be less creative......in fact I would say that it is when a person ( a soul acting the part of human) does manage to tap into the higher part of themselves that true creativity takes place.

In the republic, I think book 3, Socrates discusses how certain passages of homer can make the guardians fearful of death. One of the terms.he specifically says should be excluded is "dark shades" (not sure if thats the correct phrase). Could this have any relation to the shadows of the cave?

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half-asleep in the dawning of your knowledge. The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness. If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind. - Kahlil Gibran Just felt like this was appropriate in the discussion below.

@wfeprice

2 жыл бұрын

awesome, especially the first line. I will be contemplating that one for a long time and revisiting the concept of tabula rasa and psychology. it kind of dismisses the nurture part from the nature nurture debate dont you think?

I loved it!

An allegory is a literary device in the form of a narrative story intended to convey a complex, abstract, or difficult message through storytelling. Stories are compelling, so by using a story to talk about complex, abstract, challenging or difficult ideas, allegory takes advantage of human's propensity towards tales. Basically, allegories are a tried and true story element that people like and writers use to simplify and express or explain ideas through the figurative language of fables.

Plato's Allegory of the Cave: A Khanversation about how it is relevant to us today @ In this Khanversation Dr. Muqtedar Khan summarizes Plato's Allegory of the cave and discusses how it is more than an invitation to philosophy. He shows how it speaks to our reality today which is marred by social media, ideological narratives, corporate media and governments.

Thank you so much. This lecture was unbelievably good.

You look at this guy and know he's gonna drop some philosophical knowledge

Amazing professor!

One point that is sort of always glossed over, that I would love to talk about with anyone interested is... "One of the prisoners is suddenly free"... There is no explanation as to how prisoners are no longer shackled. Which leads me to question whether the shackles ever truly existed either. The shackles may just be the mental perception that the cave dweller cannot move or turn. And that it is only when the dweller realizes that they can indeed move, is when they act on this. If this isn't true, and there are true physical chains, what suddenly frees the person? Do they free themselves? What motivates them to do so? How do they even come up with the idea that they could free themselves? I think this part of the thought experiment is extremely important. Why are some prisoners freed and others are not? Is it strictly the openness of the dweller to accept a reality beyond that of which they have always known? I don't know, I always just wonder why one cave dweller would be free, while another would continue living in their false reality. And I don't mean, why do they reject it when shown by another dweller. I mean, what caused the initial dweller to be free? And could that be replicated to then free the rest?

@coracross7903

Жыл бұрын

Hi Steve M, lover of Truth, The shackles are the seemingly mental restriction. The identification with the body-mind. The thought that we are the body and or mind. Some say by quieting the mind, true happiness is experienced, I think this is to bind the student to the teacher, and the realization of true happiness (because that is what this seeming life is all about) is bestowed upon you. Ultimately it is bestowed by yourself, because there is no individual, there is only one reality, you not the body-mind, but you, universal substance/consciousness.

@AbbyWynneAuthor

5 ай бұрын

Perhaps it’s a collective agreement. They all agreed to be shackled until one of them broke free (or was broken free) and there he was, standing in front of them, they could not deny he was free, then that in itself perhaps, freed them all. The Hero’s Journey.