My man's really gonna argue with an anarchist while dressed like the Joker

@Headlock123456789

5 ай бұрын

I completely missed that until I read your comment, lol!

@reespuffs6435

5 ай бұрын

Top comment

@Anonymous-ld7je

5 ай бұрын

"How about another bloody joke Michael, eh?" -Joker Peterson

@joellontoc3231

5 ай бұрын

I actually thought that Jordan inherited Mr. Furleys wardrobe from threes company. 😅

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

LOL. "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"

"Every bit of responsibility that you dont pick up for yourself, tyrants will take and use against you." -JP

@yew2oob954

5 ай бұрын

Now...follow Daddy Peterson and don't point out the irony.

@Just1Spark

5 ай бұрын

I love you @@yew2oob954

@nate3563

5 ай бұрын

​@yew2oob954 what are you doing lurking around these comment sections just to put people down with lame insults? You seem like a real winner.

@yew2oob954

5 ай бұрын

@@nate3563 Winner and loser identified by participating in the comment section? Grow up. You could address what I said instead of trying to figure out why I said it and coming to the conclusion that something is wrong with me. What I said is only a lame insult if it's not true...now try real hard and realize...what I said is true.

@corybranham5795

5 ай бұрын

@@yew2oob954you think listening to ideas from a wise man is following a tyrant? Head up your arse? Maybe

Michael using Jordan's line was clean, "It's not what I think, it's what the data shows"

These two hold a great energy together. It's like a child's excited energy to communicate on adult topics intellectually.

@ForGlory

5 ай бұрын

Refer to my comment. These videos are becoming truly remarkable in their own right. That God would touch the minds of these two brilliant men--blind and clouded by the Evil and dogmas of our time and partially chained to alcohol addiction as they are--is something quite amazing to me once I recognized it. God is trying to reach all of us, and it is a Crime Against Heaven that 99% of people in this world are comfortable living a lie as MONUMENTAL as the one they're in the middle of: that marriage and gender were mythically "redefined" and there's nothing wrong with indulging Fake Compassion to promote it!

@tsibren

5 ай бұрын

Yes! I had the same thought about it.

@hamishrose9374

5 ай бұрын

Why r u gay ?

@Vgallo

5 ай бұрын

It’s kinda patronising.

@kdemetter

5 ай бұрын

It's two open minds going at it creatively it and feeding each other on the elation. It's not patronizing : it's one of the gifts children have naturally, but which is usually destroyed by schooling.

Watching the mere anarchy of the two of you having a good-natured intellectual wrestling match was so wholesome and so good.

@jamesalles139

5 ай бұрын

mere? shear?

@AFringedGentian

5 ай бұрын

@@jamesalles139”mere anarchy” is a quotation from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming.”

@jtjones4081

5 ай бұрын

Alan Greenspan testifying before Congress after the 2008 financial collapse that wiped out trillions in equity; “I always believed that markets were self regulating and would weed out bad actors. “ Congressman; “ What happened?” Greenspan; “ I was wrong.” “If men were Angels there’d be no need for Government.” Good luck with the purity of volunteerism.

@user-pn2jd1qz5j

5 ай бұрын

Isn't it fucking refreshing to hear two people with completely different views and beliefs have a discussion about topics they disagree on but not arguing. Like not hearing the word fascist used wrong 47 times in a conversation is quit nice

@jamesalles139

5 ай бұрын

@@AFringedGentian oh, my ignorance (right over my head) thanks

Michael's sitting in that chair like Forrest Gump waiting for the bus.

@Hibernial

4 ай бұрын

Ok. Now I'm imagining Michael Malice on that bench ready to talk with strangers instead of Forrest, lol.

@abstractapproach634

3 ай бұрын

Mama always said life is like a box of chocolates, easily devoured by government.

2 things. 1 it's always entertaining to see Jordan enjoy a conversation to the point that he can hardly keep his ass in his chair. And 2 the comedic choice of chairs. Jordan looks like an adult sitting in a childs chair while Michael looks like a child in an adult chair.

@theophrastus3.056

5 ай бұрын

LOL! I didn’t notice that, but you’re right. It’s like that line in the Shawshank Redemption where Red comments on Andy walking out in the warden’s nice shoes: “But how often do you look at a man’s shoes?” Every woman in the audience would say: “Very often!” Most men would say: “Almost never.” If there had been just one female guard at Shawshank, Andy might have been caught. Or one particularly observant male guard. A long way to say I commend your powers of observation.

@jwallguitar

5 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

Well venture, THAT sent Dr. Pepper shooting out my nose! Gimme a head's up before such a funny. (Now I have to clean off my keyboard).😂

@Elite02k

5 ай бұрын

Jordan is 6'1" and Michael is 5'6", so there is a noticeable difference lmfao

@venturetrucking6437

5 ай бұрын

@@Elite02k i understand that but there are ways to make it not look so blatant

JP was very animated, you could tell he was very engrossed in the ideas central to the conversation. You love to see it.

@mickyboymccoy7632

5 ай бұрын

So is his Joker wardrobe.

@Godfailedyoustophumpinghisleg

5 ай бұрын

You dont often get to meet people smarter than you as Jordan. He can't comprehend anarchy.

@Valkonnen

5 ай бұрын

@@mickyboymccoy7632 He looks fantastic.

@HorusHerotic

5 ай бұрын

Good to see him back to form.

@Ryan83728

5 ай бұрын

He upped his Adderall

“It turns that out we agree, it’s very annoying” JP Great ending lol

One thing I love about Jordan Pertoson is his fairness on his question. It's not about arguments but to make a point that will benefit the society

@matthewheadland7307

5 ай бұрын

Yeah and listening to the answer. Genuinely listening. It’s superb

@chrisw8627

5 ай бұрын

It’s from all his years of teaching!! He desires to teach and learn not debate, he’s perfected his technique!!!

@empoweryou1

5 ай бұрын

@@chrisw8627 Very true and to arrive to this current state, he's acquired an amazing ability to debate.

@macmac1022

5 ай бұрын

>> It's not about arguments but to make a point that will benefit the society"" I want to make a point that I think if people understood this, would greatly help with people being more honest not to mention stopping politicians from avoiding questions all the time. If you have 12 minutes the first basic part I will go over is about fast/slow thinking. If you want there is a 12 minute video by veritasium called "the science of thinking" that will explain it very well. I think this is knowledge that can really benefit people if they do not know about it. The next part though I dont know any videos for and I dont know if anyone really had the idea I have before. The knowledge of the fast/slow mind is what is relevant from that video and I think a good starting point for the discussion. The video also gives examples of people doing it live, but it most likely will work on you as well so that is how I will show you. I am going to ask you a question, and I am going to predict the answer you will have pop in your mind at first, and predict that will be a wrong answer. This works on most people and you can try if for yourself on others to see too, its an interesting conversation starter. A bat and a ball together cost 1.10, the bat costs 1.00 more then the ball, how much did the ball cost? You might have an answer flash in your head right away with fast inaccurate fast mind but if you check that answer with your slow but more accurate conscious awareness, you can see that answer is wrong but it takes effort to do. The answer of ten cents is not the right answer but most people have that pop in their head because of the fast thinking mind that we rely on most of the time. The fast unconscious mind is taking everything in and trying to make sense of it really fast. Its 11 million bits a second. But sometimes it makes mistakes. The slow conscious mind is 40-50 bits and lazy but it can check things and bringing the unconscious mistake to conscious awareness it can correct it. The next thing to understand is about carl jung and the 4 ways the unconscious complex he called shadow deals with reality. The shadow is an unconscious complex that is defined as the repressed and suppressed aspects of the conscious self. there are constructive and destructive types of shadow. Carl jung emphasized the importance of being aware of shadow material and incorporating it into conscious awareness lest one project these attributes onto others. The human being deals with the reality of shadow in 4 ways. Denial, projection, integration and/or transmutation. Now I believe what is happening when a question that exposes a conflict in a belief, idea, something that someone said, or even about someone they idolize and the question gets avoided, that is the fast unconscious mind going into denial and the response is often a projection. This also can trigger and emotional response activating the amygdala more and the pre frontal cortex less where rational conscious thought is said to happen and the amygdala starts to get the body to flood itself with chemicals/hormones. Its like the fast mind knows conscious awareness will say its wrong. so it blocks it off to defend itself from admitting its wrong. in cases of denial and because it blocked off the rational mind, the responses are often irrational. Like personal attacks do not address the issue or answer the question. I think we can agree people have a very hard time now days admitting when they are wrong, I am not exempt from this myself I do realize. And we can see how badly questions avoidance effects us if you watch political meetings and watch them avoid questions all day long. Ok, so the first thing to go over is denial as that is the main one I expose with questions. A disowning or refusal to acknowledge something I think is a good definition for it here. There is a really good 2 minute video I use as an example of this. A streamer named vegan gains claiming lobsters have brains after some one said he can eat lobsters because they do not have brains. He googles it and starts to read what it says. When he gets to the part where is says neither insects nor lobsters have brains, he skips it and says they literally are insects then skips over that line and continues to read the rest. Just like in the fast thinking video, his fast mind already read that line and refused to acknowledge it in unconscious denial, and just skipped it. The person then tells him he skipped it and he reads it again and sees the line this time. Still being defensive of his claim and refusing to accept he was wrong, he tried to discredit the source and its the lobster institute of maine. If you would like to see the video for yourself its 2 minutes by destiny clips and the video is called " Destiny Reacts To Vegan Gains Ignoring Search Result That Contradicts Him". Justin turdo avoiding the question of how much his family was paid by the we charity 6 times in a row I think is denial as well. I think jordan peterson not being able to answer his own question of does he believe god exists and asking what do and you mean then saying no one knows what any of those words mean while being seemingly angry is think is another really good example of denial... and projection. And while JP find those words difficult, other people understand them easy. Even he does pretty much any other time they are used. So projection is next up. Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings. Many times a mind in denial will use projections for responses. Someone getting mad and telling the other person to not interrupt when they have been doing that a lot themselves would be an example. I have done this myself. The people who tell me I dont understand my own questions and my point is wrong when they do not even know what the point is are all examples as well. I ask them to steel man my position to show then understand my point and they just avoid that question as well clearly showing they do not understand my point. Now we have integration and/or transmutation. Integration is when you bring an unconscious behavior into conscious awareness and accept it. I know that I interrupt people talking sometimes even though I think that is wrong to do. I have a conscious awareness of it, but I have not been able to completely change the behavior.... yet. That is where transmutation comes in. Transmutation is to completely change that unconscious behavior. From being impatient to being patient, of from distrust to trust, hate into understanding and love even. So was this understandable or confusing? if you understand it, do you think its possibly true? Do you have any questions? If you have any tips I am would gladly listen.

@darienkinne1347

5 ай бұрын

Have you heard him speak on Israel?

It is so nice to see Jordan LITERALLY on the edge of his seat ... because he is so excited to engage with Michael. I love them both!

Mr Peterson engages in a conversation with someone that he thinks he disagrees, hash out all the details and ends up finding out they actually agreed. Meanwhile the people calling him a right wing extremist wont even open any ways of communication and have no problem lying and making assumptions. Mr Peterson is such an amazing role model 🙌🙌🙌

@zaydeshaddox7015

5 ай бұрын

DOCTOR Peterson. He earned that degree.

@gabrielWachong

5 ай бұрын

@@zaydeshaddox7015 indeed 👍

@user-kcrpine

5 ай бұрын

zaydeshaddox7015 - like Jill Biden? If we embrace your argument here we can’t pick and choose elsewhere.

@gabrielWachong

5 ай бұрын

@@user-kcrpine what?

@zaydeshaddox7015

5 ай бұрын

@@user-kcrpine WTF are you talking about?

It's so refreshing to watch two people who actually want to understand the other having an argument. I'm sure both of them walked away from this having learned something which is rare these days.

@Vgallo

5 ай бұрын

It’s not hard when you’re basically preaching to the choir. It’s like having a dialogue with a yes man and then congratulating the pair for being so constructive.

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

@@Vgallo You don't know the contrast in background of these two scholars. They have definitely NOT been preaching to the choir. Maybe you should watch the entire recording -- over an hour long -- and find recordings of their previous discussions before labeling them in order to pigeon-hole them into some category so that you don't have to think about what they said any more. Your response is obviously that of a lazy thinker.

@Vgallo

5 ай бұрын

@@rkarnes6304 whatever dude 1 malice isn’t a scholar 2 I know more about them than you do that’s for sure:

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

Ah the fantasies of the woke left!

@SullivanOilCompany

5 ай бұрын

Why is the title of the video “annoying conversation?” Is this a non-verified Peterson account?

Brilliant Michael Echoes the wisdom of Jordan's previous interviews. Jordan says "so you think" and Michael says "I don't think, that's what the data tells us!"

@Hibernial

4 ай бұрын

Funny to see that role flipped onto JP, and that probably helped to get him engrossed in conversation.

One of the best interviews in some time. Malice is forthright and courageous. Considering the deep unpopularity of personal responsibility, it is so empowering to hear Michael confidently make the case.

@Grubnar

5 ай бұрын

It is so nice to see Jordan LITERALLY on the edge of his seat ... because he is so excited to engage with Michael. I love them both!

@SamsaraRevolves

5 ай бұрын

Personal responsibility? How dare you!? 😂

This is as healthy as it gets. This is good for society. This is good for you.

@ElliotBrownJingles

5 ай бұрын

Nice tricolon. Tasteful anaphora. Great comment.

@robertdabob8939

5 ай бұрын

Amen!

I have never seen Jordan so challenged in a conversation. Just brilliant to watch

@jimdavis8391

5 ай бұрын

He didn't seem remotely challenged to me.

@Nick-hk2vz

5 ай бұрын

I'd suggest watching his discussion with Matt dillahunty if you want to see JP challenged. This seems more like a friendly discussion in comparison

@aisthpaoitht

5 ай бұрын

​@@Nick-hk2vzMatt dillahunty? You must be joking lol

@ericguynga

5 ай бұрын

@@aisthpaoitht I have to agree that Matt Dillahunty applies logic and reason to religious claims very well (and he DESTROYED Jordan Peterson in that debate, lol), he just seems to be unable to do so when it comes to many social, economic, and political claims.

@aisthpaoitht

5 ай бұрын

@@ericguynga Dillahunty is a clown. "Hurrrr you can't prove anything, no there is no burden on me, I'm just asking questions, I'm not an expert, and I can't tell you what "proof" would even look like. Checkmate theists! Oh btw there is no objective morality, but how dare you say something about trannies, that's wrong!" And then rage quitting when he gets his baseless worldview challenged, and insulting people with middle school tier garbage.

To watch Dr Peterson’s process of working through an idea that he hasn’t encountered before and how he engages in understanding the “other” position with sincerity is amazing.

@CleverGirlAAH

5 ай бұрын

or perhaps more accurately, someone who can actually provide an informed and constructive answer.

There is a rare calm one almost never experiences, when he can speak like this to someone who actually gets it.

I'm a big fan of Peterson, but Malice has a rare gift for succinctness that makes his opinions more accessible.

@John.3

5 ай бұрын

His succinctness loses as many as it draws the same way Petersons verbosity does for him. Each are coming from a genuine place, each can be lost on the listener.

@johnbenson3024

5 ай бұрын

@@John.3 agreed. His succinctness lost me, I had a similar issue as Peterson where I went down the wrong rabbit hole as to what malice’s worldview really is at first. Glad I watched this video, they set me straight on that front at least

These types of arguments are rare, nowadays. A disagreement in good faith, where the intention is not to prove the other wrong, but to understand the others point of view, and accept one's mind being changed if that's possible.

@brianthom6798

5 ай бұрын

To be fair, scarcely anything in that conversation would qualify as a disagreement.

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

@@brianthom6798 That's the secret sauce behind the best of arguments -- when other's don't see the disagreement. Have you watched prior conversations between Jordan and Michael?

@brianthom6798

5 ай бұрын

@@rkarnes6304 I'm only aware of one prior conversation, from the KZread video titled "Malice, or the Establishment?" I enjoyed that video quite a bit, although in that one I found myself frustrated, because a couple times they were just getting to a topic I found extremely interesting, only to pivot to something else.

I never realized how bad UBI would be until Peterson explained that you would be completely dependent on government. So true

@matthewheadland7307

5 ай бұрын

Seconded.

@sweetiespoon5150

5 ай бұрын

Yes, it would be an absolute disaster on a grans scale just based on the reasons brought up here. Also, governments get their money from taxes, so all it would really be is wealth redistribution w/ the gman keeping a slice for himself as a middle man service fee. Thank you for being open to different perspectives & being willing to have your mind changed based on new data.

@smokingcrab2290

5 ай бұрын

On paper, it sounds feasible to some. But what nobody fails to notice about it is that it's a net negative ultimately, and that you're putting all of the control of the money completely in the hands of the government. The level of blind trust that people place in the hands of politicians and activists is alarming. The true key to building the closest possibility of your own "utopian" dreams lies in personal responsibility. The more responsibility you take for yourself, the more free you will be.

@sportysbusiness

5 ай бұрын

Worse, not only dependent, but completely controlled. If you don't do EXACTLY what they say (stay at home, get injected, eat bugs), they will cut off your ability to survive.

@LC-wv7tz

5 ай бұрын

You're already completely dependent on the government. UBI would just give you a good quality of life.

"If life is meaningless, then so is the statement that says so. The purpose and meaning of dancing is the dance." - Alan Watts

@Si_Mondo

5 ай бұрын

But subjectively, to the individual who will think deeply, it's does seem like life is meaningless. Doesn't mean it is but it can certainly seem that way at times. Camus is still giving a sound solution to that intellectual dilemma, even if the dilemma is a false one.

@SuperJin20

5 ай бұрын

@@Si_Mondo I agree that it can seem that way subjectively. And you dont have to be a deep thinker to think so, plenty of people who are depressed, or have some other mental, familial, relational, etc condition will feel so. Objectively however, Alan watts quote triumphs over the absurdity of camus quote.

@horsymandias-ur

5 ай бұрын

What is meant by the statement “life is meaningless”?

@Jaredskoll

5 ай бұрын

​@@horsymandias-ur I think people have 'meaning' confused with 'purpose'. They find no purpose to direct their life towards, hence the lack of meaning.

@horsymandias-ur

5 ай бұрын

@@Jaredskoll Thank you; that makes a lot of sense

The entire conversation is extremely engaging, one of the best Peterson podcasts to date. Malice is very competent and is often held at bay because people are uncomfortable with his premise, and particularly his own linguistic representation of his positions/belief system. Peterson allows him the space to flush out his ideas, and provides the necessary challenges that permit Malice to air out his thought process and how he reconciles his position to accepted cultural/political dogma (and to explain why some areas are irreconcilable). It's funny, informative and wholly entertaining while being thoroughly thought provoking. I highly encourage people to watch the full podcast, either on the Daily Wire channel or right here on KZread.

@whynot1548

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, cuz his premise is childish. He's the rightwing equivalent to Bernie Sanders

@twodeepmatt

5 ай бұрын

We could sell t-shirts! Slavery = Maturity

@kurtcpi5670

5 ай бұрын

@@whynot1548 "Right wing" is quite a stretch. An anarchist isn't left wing or right wing. They're more libertarian on steroids. But he makes his point. I don't agree with the anarchist conclusion, but his arguments aren't without merit. I do believe that government should be as small as possible to maintain the peace ("promote the general welfare"). Malice makes a good argument that the US constitution, arguably the blueprint for small government, has led to the biggest government of all time. Of course the political class have had to find ways to circumnavigate the constitution to accomplish this, but they couldn't have done so without the "governed" having permitted it. Malice points out that not everyone wants to be free, and that has never been more true than now. Peterson points out the the Hebrews in the desert (Exodus) wanted a king. On the other hand, the idea that voluntary participation in the sovereignty of the individual would lead to voluntary respect for that sovereignty is either a position of naivety or of willingness to accept all consequences. Anarchy, no matter how you idealize it, will eventually devolve into chaos, just as socialism will eventually devolve into authoritarian oppression. The question is whether authoritarian control is preferable to chaos. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

@chrisdawson1776

5 ай бұрын

@@kurtcpi5670🤓

@colinburroughs9871

5 ай бұрын

@@whynot1548 it's not childish at all, it's philosophically pretty consistent and the broad point is obvious and it's basically what everyone (right and left at different times) in their own way is asserting.. "what's the natural right that allows one person to rule over the other?". There isn't really one. So we subdivide in the ways we do.

"I don't think so. That's what the data tells us" MM. That was laugh out loud funny! JBP didn't even seem to notice or he's a good poker player.

@ivanooze153

5 ай бұрын

The Iron Law of Oligarchy.

It's wholesome on a different level seeing these two gentleman discussing and having a genuine laugh together.

Annoying? More like adorable. Loved this whole podcast watched it twice already ❤❤

@kirsty_iso

5 ай бұрын

Now that’s adorable

@joojoobaw

5 ай бұрын

Classic clickbait. Jordy’s all about tricking people to listen to what he has to say and we love it, don’t we?!

@charityscreams5366

5 ай бұрын

I really enjoyed it. It was a fascinating conversation between 2 brilliant people.

@rkarnes6304

5 ай бұрын

LOL. Pure hatred, that comment. An Ahab cursing Moby Dick.

I detect no annoyance. It was just a good conversation. (and informative)

@Caennuck

5 ай бұрын

I think that the annoying part is that they believe fundamentally different things, but those view render effectively the same outputs.

@patrickmchargue7122

5 ай бұрын

@@meech3576 As was my reply.

@Caennuck

5 ай бұрын

@@meech3576Oh absolutely, I think we are all on the same page here. I was just pointing out that Camus’ nihilism reaches the point of meaning or value in life through self sacrifice to the role you’ve absurdly fallen into and the mitigation of suffering of those around you. That is as close a nihilism as the Christian story. Peterson is absolutely using humour to call that out.

@tuckerbugeater

5 ай бұрын

cope@@Caennuck

Michael's point about people's collective dependence on government is exactly right. There's a very small segment of the electorate that actually want freedom and to be left alone. A lot more view government's role as a vehicle for handouts and wealth redistribution.

@d1427

5 ай бұрын

And then you wonder why there is no push for a more accountable democracy when the regular Joe is happy with $125 handouts now and then. What can the small segment of the electorate do against the mass of complacent voters? Even further, why bother to vote when you know the system is rigged and there is no interest in changing anything because-eh... at least I get $125 that may be lost if things change...

@jimdavis8391

5 ай бұрын

Spot on, it's reaching crisis point. Too many babies no nannies.

@darwin6883

5 ай бұрын

Hmmmm I wonder why it’s a small minority that wouldn’t want access to clean water, plumbing, fire, police, paramedics, libraries, health clinics, municipal services.

@Andy-su5wg

5 ай бұрын

@@darwin6883 I don't see the connection. Wanting liberties does not means that you cannot get human rights, if anything one always brings the other. Stop being a cunt, dude.

@ericguynga

5 ай бұрын

@@darwin6883 LOL. "Nobody could have clean water, plumbing, fire, police, paramedics, libraries, health clinics, and municipal services without government." Do you actually believe that? You can't possibly be that ignorant.

Not too many guests get Jordan on the edge of his seat. But he sure the hell was by the end of this back and forth lol

Love iiiit! I'm so grateful for conversations like this 🧡

Micheal is a good speaker without the ticks and pauses that other bright thinkers have.

@cas343

5 ай бұрын

His political positions are so extreme while he is so utterly well adjusted and pleasant. In almost all cases those two never go together.

@factsdontlie4342

5 ай бұрын

​@@cas343Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

@hhoi8225

5 ай бұрын

Sometimes when someone learns a second language (I believe he did not speak English as a young child?) they sound quite direct because they have less "natural" flow. Usually that's a bad thing but in this case the sort of truncated sentence endings makes him just sound confident. 🤷‍♀️

@cas343

5 ай бұрын

@@hhoi8225 I think you're right about that. His cadence is just like 1/4 of a beat off of a native speaker but he benefits from it in clarity. His words never run together and he doesn't slur consonants.

5 min in and theres no argument loll actually 2 thinkers agreeing from different angles. Someone said "more like adorable!". I agree! 😄

It's amazing how easy it is to follow the complex & nuanced digressions/asides - when both communicators are communicating in good faith.

I can see basic income either becoming a worthless baseline that doesn't even cover necessities, or something the government threatens to take away from you if you don't do as it says.

@themonrovian8441

5 ай бұрын

It’s mathematically inevitable that it would become a worthless baseline.

@letsgetacid

5 ай бұрын

It will absolutely be both. Incremental increase of the baseline and those born of dependence begging for it to continue.

@Si_Mondo

5 ай бұрын

Why can't it be both? The first is the economic issue, that *will* manifest because of the interference in the market maintaining such a policy will entail. The second being a social issue which those in power won't be able to prevent themselves from applying.

@themonrovian8441

5 ай бұрын

@@Si_Mondo Do you fear something worthless being taken from you? The inflation that would ensue from UBI would render an initial $2000 a month payment worth about 20 bucks in a few short years. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We've already done this experiment hundreds of times across the globe over the last century.

@danjohnson8556

5 ай бұрын

We’ve already experience the inflation of a push to raise minimum wage and other foolish economic policies. Anyone with two brain. ella to rub together can see what comes after government starts handing out cash.

I need more of this team up. Both of these guys are great. Definitely some ideas I need to interrogate for myself.

“life is meaningless” is just as absurd as saying a flying arrow has no destination

@godbyone

5 ай бұрын

Arrow is sparrow

A wonderful dialog. Thank you Jordan. I've been having this conversation in my head for years.

A brilliant and entertaining end to a wonderful conversation. Thank you.

This was great. There’s a lot of issues with KZread that we as a society need to work through. But presenting deep and thoughtful conversations between intelligent people - that part is working well. I am enjoying Dr Peterson’s interview series more and more.

@xmathmanx

5 ай бұрын

There's no real issue with KZread if you can just accept that things you don't like can happen

JP dressed like the Joker 😂 Love hearing two intelligent people chat

Malice didn't describe meaninglessness. He described infinite pathways to meaning.

Man, your film crew is REALLY talented! This is really smooth. Great chat !

Great chat, thank you both!

Interesting to watch JP’s body language when he is openly talking vs. how he was so pulled back in his chair during the Kathy Newman interview.

@mickyboymccoy7632

5 ай бұрын

Just come outta the closet already, Nobody cares anymore, You'll probably get a promotion at work.

@letsgetacid

5 ай бұрын

Intellectually stimulated here

Jordan is exhausting Malice is chill.

This was a GREAT episode. I would love to see them talk again!

Dr Peterson is using that chair to it's full capacity

Both clearly highly intelligent people. Michael speaks beautifully, calmly and fluently; was there a single "erm" or "err" in the long conversation?! Impressive.

I wish all interactions could be as civil as these two, wonderful insight as always

@mokeboi3328

5 ай бұрын

Civil?...jp very rude and interrupting

@refugeehugsforfree4151

5 ай бұрын

Are all of you Bots? You say the same exact things.

@mokeboi3328

5 ай бұрын

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 yes..i is a botty boi

I have watched many broadcasts by Dr Peterson & I always learn something new & fascinating - bravo.

Meaningless in Ecclesiastes is sometimes translated as vanity. Sometimes it reads “meaningless meaningless all is meaningless” and sometimes “vanity vanity all is vanity” you invoked exodus but the conversation was Ecclesiastes

"Talisman"! Yes! I called it the cloth talisman during covid times. Glad to be on the same page as Malice here. What a hero.

Meaningless meaning that perfection isn't just what you make it, it's also what you couldn't make it.

I’ve always liked how Jordan is so genuinely interested in the discussion and learning something new

I have been waiting for this conversation for so long

I want a room in my house like that.

@ThankyouJesus81

5 ай бұрын

I can build you one

Wow. I been trying to find a way to discribe this to people for so long now. This sums it all up perfectly.

@Evnmcphrsn

5 ай бұрын

Have you really? Real people or internet ?

@Richard-ky8dw

5 ай бұрын

@@Evnmcphrsn lol like what i say to you will matter. You are clearly coming with negativity.

This was a great chat!

The collaboration of minds I never considered that should have been. Honestly, I really think this should be a series going over topics. Even rehashing old conversations going into further detail would still be amazing content.

I never knew much about Michael Malice (still don’t) but I respect him in that he doesn’t try to hog the conversation, he only speaks long enough to make his -lint clearly. He also doesn’t interrupt rudely and I think I can tell that he is listening to what Jordan says. I think Jordan always exhibits those qualities and I watch him quite a bit. It was a pleasure to listen to this respectful and dispassionate discussion.

@LC-wv7tz

5 ай бұрын

Jordan is like the opposite of concise. I've watched him for 8 years now and there are loads of examples of him interviewing and sucking up all the air. He can't make a concise point save his life and he's gotten much worse about since "coming back". This interview is not a bad showing for him, but he is infamous for rambling, sucking up all the oxygen in the room, and never letting people get a word in. There are some of his episodes with Harris that are an hour or more long and he's talking for nearly 45 minutes of them. Usually never even making a point, just going on and on about things that are quite simple and getting lost in the sauce.

@brianthom6798

5 ай бұрын

@@LC-wv7tz It's not a lack of conciseness. He's making complex points, and it seems very important to him that he is precise. Precision cannot be accomplished in these matters with brevity.

@LC-wv7tz

5 ай бұрын

@brianthom6798 No he's not. His points are often very simple and his language isn't precise at all, it's extremely messy, actually. Most of his points come down to common sense or historical recitation. Peterson is obsessed with cloaking most of his language in Jungian mysticism, but when you strip off the pretty obvious ideological wrappings, it's very simple stuff.

@brianthom6798

5 ай бұрын

@@LC-wv7tz "No he's not" - good comeback, bro. You're making assertions, not arguments. If you give some examples, that would help to demonstrate your point.

@LC-wv7tz

5 ай бұрын

@brianthom6798 The original commenter was also merely making assertions "Yes he is." You can just ignore them and assert the opposite.

There is such a range of intelligence and wisdom among us humans.

A Very Annoying >Agreement< with Michael Malice

It's great to see Jordan interview my grandma

2:22 the contrast in posture is amazing here. JBP looks like he's 9 feet tall, and about to force-choke MM who in turn appears to be on the cusp of collapsing in on himself while preparing to leap backward in a desperate act of auto-defenestration.

Despite the seriousness of the talk I was giggling the entire time. Its such an appealling suit! Very flashy and especially gorgeous the tie pattern! But he looks so much like the Joker, I can't xD The clip is perfect. Educationally important, but it will remain longer and deeper in mind due to the humorous aspect. Take that weak education system!

This is nourishing. Seeking Clarity in Understanding is far more satisfying than seeking dominance & evervation among interlocutors

Yes, it's very annoying, when one don't let the other flows too.

The greater the difficulty the greater the reward when overcome. "We all know only a little." Merry Christmas all.

@gregorywitcher5618

5 ай бұрын

Merry Christmas, everyone!!!

Michael Malice knows Alex Jones and Jordan Peterson....can we get a Jordan Peterson and Alex Jones discussion please?

Wonderful conversation!

Dunno if this is the first time these 2 have spoken on a platform such as this, but I am glad for it. I’d like to see more.

Great work on the editing. 👏 The one thing that bugs me about this conversation is the fact that some people actually "want cages" in and around their lives. I agree that this is true, but i hate to admit it, because that means i'm saying that some people need cages, i theoretically am putting people in a cage with a way of thought like that. Now i could sugar coat it and call it guidance instead of a cage, but the examples you brought up, like the covid restrictions and masks, were still dictats by law and not just a mentor's suggestion. Then again, equally, when i drive through Toronto with my truck, honking for Freedom and a few people protest that, who aren't sent there by their workers unions just to show up but actually believe that this protest for Freedom is infringing on their life's stability and safety, doesn't my idea of Freedom turn into a societal form of a dictat aswell? As in "You can't have this cage because i don't want it for myself."? If i reduce the whole idea to it's bare existential minimums i can say that young children and the more senile elderly need guidance to survive. Some adults need guidance to survive as well, in either a mechanical, medical or in a mental form, be it therapy, training or permanent supervision. Of course, all of these ideas can facilitate mechanisms and whole institutions in society that will pull people into a forced guidance, even if they didn't actually need it, just by chance. And the only concept to measure this "well meaning and often needed but also easy to abuse intrusion" is a level of dependence to either the state or such institutions. Now, to seek an answer from the bible to all this, on the surface, i'm facing a book that is meant for guidance per se. A book that basically celebrates the cages people put around themselves as a virtue in the old testament. And only when i move into the new testament, with Jesus, it starts to show me the other side of the coin, where the book starts to tell me that some cages we put around ourselves, or some cages that are being built around us, are bad and will corrupt us to the core. And as one of it's probably most important parts the new testament then reports on the death of the son of god as the king of kings and, in my view, the final sacrifice to end all sacrifices. But what this sacrifice does is give a strong guidance, without a cage being put around the person receiving the guidance. The message is we are now free of sin and have the chance to live a life free of sin, to find our way to god even if our former lives to that point were riddled by sinful thought and actions. This basically builds a "none-cage", where you have the strongest possible guidance without a barrier around it. Of course, our own experience and knowledge are and always will be our unending mental cages and can turn into physical barriers. But those can expand, unlike cages put into writing by people, unlike dictats, unlike doctrine, unlike propaganda or a media narrative. So, if i knowingly say, "i want a cage", i am pledging for ignorance. Means when i see people wanting cages, i see people wanting to be ignorant, as opposed to when i see people needing guidance, then they either lack the experience or actually lack the physical or mental ability. Anarchy to me means "free of dictats and doctrine". Which means the final questions i have are: Is the concept of a sin only possible within a doctrine? Is the ability to only enter the gate of heaven with a life free of sin a dictat? Or is all of the above resolved by absolution alone, meaing absolution turns it into a none-doctrine and a none-dictat?

Please more discords like this. I’m literally blown away

@rosesoulis1840

5 ай бұрын

Ordered freedom is the CONSTITUTION....men are fallen and the worst ones are attracted to power....the diffusion of power in the CONSTITUTION guarantees a constant tension....the DEEP STATE.... think JEN PSAKI harassing the big tech folk seeks to circumvent all if iur checks and balances.. that is the danger

merry christmas to you and your family Dr. Peterson ❤

Awesome Thanks

I really like how the conversation just started no BS introductions as if we don’t know who the participants are.Kudos!

@williamreames9311

5 ай бұрын

This is just a clip. The real convo was over 2 hrs

I listened to this twice this morning while at work and was impressed at Jordan's composure. Rarely do I watch his interviews but I could feel the tension in this one a few times.

@doctorofart

5 ай бұрын

This guy speaks fast and when Jordan tries to step in he raises his volume and speed. Jordan was quite gracious to allow it and stay quiet.

@jtjones4081

5 ай бұрын

I appreciate a guest who is optimistic instead of the doomsayers that normally inhabit this place. I’m optimistic too as the struggle to form a more perfect union is a goal without an end and that’s fine.

@jamesalles139

5 ай бұрын

@@doctorofart yes, he is 'Annoying' {tm}

@smokingcrab2290

5 ай бұрын

Jordan has such a passionate and empathetic intellectual curiosity to deeply understand others. It shows that he really tries to understand others because he genuinely wants to seek the truth and help others seek it too.

@JediSteele

5 ай бұрын

@@smokingcrab2290 no doubt, Jordan meets in the middle in the interview multiple times just to keep the conversation thriving. It's humbling and I hope to develop that skill.

What a beautiful and outstanding discussion!

These are the kinds of things I love to hear

Malice is such a smug troll 😂

@smokingcrab2290

5 ай бұрын

I can understand smugness when you're dealing with a mental midget. But to show any form of smugness with a good hearted man like JP is straight up folly and arrogance. You might disagree with him, but at least show him the respect he deserves.

Sam Harris told us already, there is no free will, so we all have to give in to fate and hopelessness. Sam's the Atheist Moses. Personally I always thought Adolf had a choice. But Sam Harris would say no, I'm uninformed.

@King-O-Hell

5 ай бұрын

No free will is bogus. That is "science's" answer for encountering something they don't understand.

@sweetiespoon5150

5 ай бұрын

Harris is wrong, IMHO. We all have free will. Whether you believe it is endowed by a divine creator or not is up to you.

@smokingcrab2290

5 ай бұрын

If theres no free will then how can he judge religion as evil? Lol

@King-O-Hell

5 ай бұрын

@@smokingcrab2290 Honestly there couldn't even be evil without free will. Without the intention to do something selfish or wrong (harmful to others etc.) I don't think the term "evil" has any meaning. If every decision is a predetermined binary response, I don't see how any action could be what people refer to as evil. But, I believe in spirit and free will so I have no problem referring to certain actions as evil:)

@smokingcrab2290

5 ай бұрын

@sweetiespoon5150, I believe we have a will. But our wills are not "free" in the sense that we are capable of choosing what we know we SHOULD be doing 100% of the time. Because every single human being makes intentional mistakes throughout all phases of their lives. So no matter how "good" a person is, there will come a time when they do something that is bad, even if they meant it for good. So I believe that the only way we can truly be "good" in the ultimate sense of that word, is if we are constantly connected to the source of all good, which is God. And the only way we can even choose to follow and connect with that source of Good, is if He enables us to do it. I believe that our wills our only "free" (as in free to do good) under the umbrella of the will of a higher power. But without that connection to God to do good, your will is only predisposed to do evil. And even if you appear to do good, youre only doing it for self serving reasons without the connection to the source of Good.

That you named the video this speaks very highly of you. It was a wonderful discussion.

The topic of this discussion is something I learnt as a consequence of my experiences this year. Sacrifice the past, present and future. Let it all go. Just slow down and live now. Then you'll realise now is eternal.

Is it me or does Michael think he’s the smartest person in any room

@FreeMenDieFree

5 ай бұрын

Being brilliant always does come with some hint of arrogance. And Malice is factually brilliant.

Michael Malice, murderously intelligent, not remotely wise.

@OneTribe.Community

5 ай бұрын

What makes you say that? That he’s not remotely wise?

He forgets to add that every bit of comfort they gain on the left is less comfort for everyone else.

Wrestling over a single word. It's amazing how a singular, operative word--all that it bears when it traverses numerous concepts--can cause great dilemma, but when the root-meaning of that word is sought out, and eventually agreed upon, there is a glimmer of beautiful harmony.

That Nietzsche line is beautiful actually. What a profound way to motivate yourself.

That was fun! Thanks!

An unhappy man blames life's meaninglessness. A happy man never questions life's meaning. He already knows. Finding happiness is the greatest gift you can give. Figuring out how to be happy is the journey of a life time.

Great conversation

This was a great conversation between 2 people who in my eyes atleast actually described the mission in each others mind beautifully. -Jordan Peterson is one who is strong word but addicted to knowledge and knowledge is never ending hints why questions are wrapping around his thinking before he gets to ask the 1st question he thought of. -Due having now 35 questions to ask, his 1st question answered just added 35 more questions and continues from there. -Michael is very open minded even with his own set in beliefs expressing how Judaism and Christianity are defined very differently from one another and at the same time explaining the fact there are multiple different types of Christianity types/religion/beliefs which is why he is open minded because he can observe and express that without...I guess judging negative so badly onto others which he could say but he didn't. -His point merely and stated that did not change your life is a gift and it's your own choice to appreciate it and do with what is yours. Example the empty canvas on the mountain. *In my eyes and thought process, Jordan stuck on the word Meanlessness, he couldn't see how if everything was meaningless, then in defining that.. -that statement is stating everything actually has meaning. *Empty Canvas metaphor is your the painter and your choice to choose to make your life a piece of art and that only you can choose to let others judge or not because in reality YOU CAN'T GRADE ART. You can decide to let others grade your art or you can understand that it doesn't matter what grade you got from that person because its not his art to grade. -In one's own eyes can see that painting as a horrible drawing and another's eyes can see the most beautiful masterpiece of all. -Hints your life is a gift and only you can choose to treat it as such as well as choosing to let others affect your gift or not. I love listening to this "annoying agreement"😊 Very interesting and thought-provoking. I miss conversations like this with others. Additional I love how Jordan Peterson explained perfectly why I think the way I do. I have multiple "disabilities" but has never asked for disability because if I depend on the system to put money in my account, to take care of me then I gave them the right to take money out of account and to able to control my will,my worth, my life. To be able to choose if my being is worth taking care of or not. Even though now it's not just me,I have children to make sure is feed, clothed, and sheltered. I still will make sure they are taken care but I refuse to let the system control what my babies lives are "worth" to them. Freedom is true safe and secure. Not the cage that gives the illusion you are safe and secure. **hope I explained what my goal of my comment was. ***

Annoying = learning. Growing = uncomfortable. This is a perfect example of a great master. always being a student. Great conversation nonetheless.

Big fan of both of these men. Great conversation

Watching JP opening talks with Michael Malice about existentialism dressed like the Joker lol wow 😂

Is there any other kind of conversation to have with Michael. He is fantastic.

I love listening to smart people talk this way thank you God bless and keep us all

1:24 This edit was like watching Gandalf in Bilbo's house

Great video.